EPT[Hero] Spectre - Page 11
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Trustworthy-Tony
Tanzania187 Posts
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
The reason I don't get dispersion till 10 is that I prefer maximising my offensive potential. Its not like I'm getting killed or ganked at random places that I need more ehp. If they want to kill me, they have to dive the tower for it. If they can do so, the extra ehp probably wouldn't matter anyway. Of course I'm not that rigid over not getting dispersion before 10. Its just for most cases, its a nono for me. | ||
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Cerberus2589
83 Posts
I've experimented with ditching Radiance and going for Drums + Diffusal + Manta which seems to be reasonable damage. My issue with this is that without Radiance you have no flash farming ability at all and I kind of feel like I need something especially if I have to take the jungle earlier. | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6228 Posts
If you try for rad, fail, and then go back for drums when you're already behind, you end up with a timing-based aggressive stats item when the enemy cores have one-and-a-half majors and generally lose. Drums is a pretty crappy catchup item in most cases. Really, spectre with radiance and spectre without might as well be totally different heroes. I feel like you're generally better off deciding to play battle spec from the get-go, or just gritting your teeth as radiance spec and grinding out the 35 minute relic. | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
On July 30 2014 21:49 Belisarius wrote: I don't really see drums/diffu as the kind of thing you pick up when your radiance timing has failed. They're things you get earlier when you know you shouldn't even try for radiance, in order to contribute to specific things your team is doing. If you try for rad, fail, and then go back for drums when you're already behind, you end up with a timing-based aggressive stats item when the enemy cores have one-and-a-half majors and generally lose. Drums is a pretty crappy catchup item in most cases. Really, spectre with radiance and spectre without might as well be totally different heroes. I feel like you're generally better off deciding to play battle spec from the get-go, or just gritting your teeth as radiance spec and grinding out the 35 minute relic. Diffusal is fine though. But late drums is crap on any hero. That's why I hate when pub roaming/offlane mirana buys it all the time. | ||
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govie
9334 Posts
On July 30 2014 21:49 Belisarius wrote: Really, spectre with radiance and spectre without might as well be totally different heroes. I feel like you're generally better off deciding to play battle spec from the get-go, or just gritting your teeth as radiance spec and grinding out the 35 minute relic. I agree with this. | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6228 Posts
On July 30 2014 22:38 DucK- wrote: Diffusal is fine though. But late drums is crap on any hero. That's why I hate when pub roaming/offlane mirana buys it all the time. That's true, but if you're bailing on a relic you're usually looking at pretty much a naked diffusal while behind, and at that point you just explode if you try to man up with it. Sure, you do get a bit more damage on your ult, but I can't see too many situations where that's going to reverse a game when the real spec can barely fight. Ironically, I feel Spectre's only real recovery item is radiance itself. On July 30 2014 21:31 Cerberus2589 wrote: I've experimented with ditching Radiance and going for Drums + Diffusal + Manta which seems to be reasonable damage. My issue with this is that without Radiance you have no flash farming ability at all and I kind of feel like I need something especially if I have to take the jungle earlier. On this again, personally I quite like (drums/vanguard) -> diffu for #GameIsHard games, but the point is to recognise the situation early and leverage the minor item while it's still useful. If you turn the early fights with drums you can farm the jungle okayish once diffu and diffu->yasha is up, but you have to recognise that you're just doing that in your spare time. By buying those items, you have elected to become a combat carry, and you need to supplement your farm with objectives and kills because - as you say - you can't really flashfarm. Battle spec is really quite dependent on her team. You need to encourage them to keep forcing fights and trusting you to Haunt in from the jungle, and that can be a bit hard to get across. | ||
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
On July 30 2014 22:38 DucK- wrote: Diffusal is fine though. But late drums is crap on any hero. That's why I hate when pub roaming/offlane mirana buys it all the time. I don't see why that makes sense. The drums upgrade almost exclusively offers scaling stats, which are useful at any point in the game. The active is useful in most situations except if you are farming neutrals or something. I think people are generally too nazi about buying certain items before certain timings. I don't agree with that. Dota is a too dynamic game and your income is gonna be very variable regardless what you play. | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
On July 31 2014 19:30 clickrush wrote: I don't see why that makes sense. The drums upgrade almost exclusively offers scaling stats, which are useful at any point in the game. The active is useful in most situations except if you are farming neutrals or something. I think people are generally too nazi about buying certain items before certain timings. I don't agree with that. Dota is a too dynamic game and your income is gonna be very variable regardless what you play. Drum is win more item, not an item you should fall back on. Especially in case of spec, when radiance is both the come back mechanic and the win more one. | ||
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govie
9334 Posts
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
On July 31 2014 20:15 govie wrote: Mediocre items have less impact the later you get them. I believe a too late drums is almost just as questionable as a 12 minute midas first item. Drums offer advantages at certain timings, thats why i buy the item. If i wanted stats, i would try nulls+bracer or something similar. We havent seen loda buying bracers. nulls, drums or other cheap statoriented items after +30 minutes now have we. thats simply not true. small / medium items have weaker slot efficiency but aside from that they have better stats for the gold you are spending on them. also the stats on drum (the active and the aura) are scaling stats so they actually gain efficiency the farer you get into the game. also the active movement speed boost is almost allways useful may it be early game roaming midgame skirmishes or full on lategame clashes you will profit from it. | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6228 Posts
On some heroes in some situations, yes, a late drums might let you win a critical base defense and crawl back into the game. Because of how valuable the radiance effect is for spectre, and how slowly she farms without it, those situations are very specific in her case. It does no good to barely hold your highground if you have no way to quickly convert that fleeting mapcontrol into a recovery. Also, it's worth pointing out that the drums % scales no better than any other +aspd or +spd, and swiftness aura on its own is equivalent to something like 1/3 of a gloves of haste. | ||
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Cerberus2589
83 Posts
I agree about Diffusal I think it's a very good item for Spectre. The only thing I'm kind of confused about is whether to go Manta or Diffusal first | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
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CeriseCherries
6170 Posts
On July 31 2014 22:17 Cerberus2589 wrote: That's fine although I try to avoid Vanguard if I can which often means it's probably too late for me to go Vanguard if I've had a rough time. The reason being is just that I find it falls off very quickly and there items you need could be built into other things (Heart and Refresher). All of that and considering the cost which delay other things means I quite often skip it, but I can at least see how in some situations it can be useful if you need to join fights a lot earlier. I agree about Diffusal I think it's a very good item for Spectre. The only thing I'm kind of confused about is whether to go Manta or Diffusal first i think if you look at the lanes and know you are probably gonna get wrecked, it might just be a good idea to go for ti from the start; the extra survivability of vanguard as well as help in combat might mean you get radiance at the same timing but with a bonus vanguard instead | ||
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Cerberus2589
83 Posts
On July 31 2014 22:29 CeriseCherries wrote: i think if you look at the lanes and know you are probably gonna get wrecked, it might just be a good idea to go for ti from the start; the extra survivability of vanguard as well as help in combat might mean you get radiance at the same timing but with a bonus vanguard instead Yeah I guess Vanguard will help you to fight a lot earlier. To be honest Vanguard Spectre I've been confused about for a while and haven't really decided on it. Pro players seem to love this item on Spectre and get it every game even in pub games whereas 5k+ pub players think you're a retard if you buy this item | ||
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Divine-Sneaker
Denmark1225 Posts
If you're blindly picking spectre every game when the hero is fairly niche, or at the very least has some glaring weaknesses to take advantage off, then that's up to you. However the hero simply has limitations and I feel strongly that spectre just does not fit into every draft. If you feel forced to go drums/vanguard into diffusal, a different hero would've been much better. | ||
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Surprise.820
United Kingdom1276 Posts
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TechSc2
Netherlands554 Posts
On August 01 2014 03:54 Divine-Sneaker wrote: I feel that if you've drafted spectre for a game and you cannot get a welltimed radiance, you either drafted badly or got massively outplayed. Either would likely have you lose regardless, but the salient point is that if you don't feel 100% certain your spectre will be secured room for a proper radiance timing, a different hero would've been better in the draft. If you're blindly picking spectre every game when the hero is fairly niche, or at the very least has some glaring weaknesses to take advantage off, then that's up to you. However the hero simply has limitations and I feel strongly that spectre just does not fit into every draft. If you feel forced to go drums/vanguard into diffusal, a different hero would've been much better. I agree wtih Suprise on this one, i feel like your mindset is really bad in regards to spectre. Her ability to farm anywhere, and still being able to participate in a huge amoun of ganks and/or pushes is what makes her great, and spectre is actually one of the few carries that can turn games on her own because of the farming potential without missing fights/ganks. I have turned games where i ditched the radiance idea at like minute 18 because i was far behind, picked up a vangaurd, and started to rotate jungle. The most important part what people forget is, that if you go for a haunt gank, you are free to farm that lane for at least a full minute, which should net you around 600 extra gold on top of the kill/assist gold. so around 800-1000 gold for a gank is extremely good. Spectre is such an elusive hero and, once you have 1 survivability item, a really hard hero to catch offgaurd and gank effectively. | ||
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Skyro
United States1823 Posts
If you need regen in lane and/or need to jungle you can save the RoH for Refresher or Linken's, or get a casual Morbid Mask which you can turn into whatever depending on the situation. If you need to cheap HP just buy a casual vit or point booster (depending if you want to go Heart of Skadi). | ||
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