Simple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 30

On October 20 2011 08:00 lixlix wrote:
out of the 105 heroes in Dota, Broodmother is pretty clearly in the top 20 in terms of usage. That means top tier to me considering there are 10 total bans and 10 total picks per game.

You can say that competitive teams overrate Brood, which may very well be true. Doesn't change the fact that Brood is top tier in the current competitive environment which answers what the original question was asking.

On October 20 2011 09:11 lixlix wrote:
your reading comprehension needs work.

On October 20 2011 10:01 lixlix wrote:
the original question was "is broodmother too weak to be used in competitive play?"

my answer was "brood is commonly seen in competitive play and occasionally makes the first set of bans". both of which are true statements and can't really be refuted. You then give a long spiel that doesn't really address the question.

I even courteously agree that "You can say that competitive teams overrate Brood, which may very well be true." but thats not what the original question was asking.

Perhaps top 20 in usage is not a good metric for determining whether a hero is top tier or competitive but its certainly a better metric than "the sole opinions of Judicator". I mean thats essentially what you are saying. Competitive teams may be commonly picking or banning brood but according to Judicator, they are making bad picks and bans.

On October 20 2011 10:25 Judicator wrote:


Hey, you're getting there. Notice when Navi picked Broodmother with Light on Brood for a tourney about 1.5 months ago, they got rolled? Notice how Navi hasn't respected Brood in any of tournaments since then? Then notice how when Artstyle left Navi, his team hasn't respected Brood either? Then notice M5 also started not respecting Brood in their picks? Then realize that those teams are usually innovators for the European scene? Then realize that you want to pretend that you know what you are talking about the state of the DotA game when if fact you don't have a clue?

Then realize that other teams have been doing the same, both in Asia and Europe where Brood barely makes it on the ban list (2nd phase) or the picks?

Then realize your statement of "overrate Brood" isn't accurate any more as it's more "overrated" than "overrate"?

But shit I don't know diddly squat about the state of DotA. I might not watch as many replays as I use to, but I still know what is going on. When Europe's best carry player gets exposed on Brood despite playing a perfect game, people know that hero isn't worth shit.

Edit:

Just because pro teams do it, doesn't mean it's good, right, correct, whatever you want to call it. Teams thought SF was still good in this version, but we all know how that turned out, same for Sniper out of a tri-lane. Teams take time to adapt or are stubborn, they're just as fallible as the next one.

On October 21 2011 05:10 ICarrotU wrote:


All three teams you named have banned/picked her in the past 3 weeks bud, two minutes of searching found me replays.

Na'Vi - http://www.gosugamers.net/dota/replays/51138

DTS (Art's new team) - http://www.gosugamers.net/dota/replays/51621

M5 - http://www.gosugamers.net/dota/replays/51607

She is arguably top 20, I'd so closer to top 30, but I wouldn't say she "isn't worth shit", as you so eloquently put it.

Not sure why you turned his simple answer into a debate on how pro teams are stubborn and slow to adapt.

On October 21 2011 05:10 ICarrotU wrote:


All three teams you named have banned/picked her in the past 3 weeks bud, two minutes of searching found me replays.

Na'Vi - http://www.gosugamers.net/dota/replays/51138

DTS (Art's new team) - http://www.gosugamers.net/dota/replays/51621

M5 - http://www.gosugamers.net/dota/replays/51607

She is arguably top 20, I'd so closer to top 30, but I wouldn't say she "isn't worth shit", as you so eloquently put it.

Not sure why you turned his simple answer into a debate on how pro teams are stubborn and slow to adapt.

On October 21 2011 06:31 Judicator wrote:


Because he implies that just because a top team uses something, then that must mean they know what they're doing and thus usage rates are good indicator of the hero's competitive quality.

All 3 teams picking and banning Brood doesn't make her Top 20 or 30. They still don't respect her at all, like I said, NA was picked/ban for a long long time even in the farmfest that was 52, but that doesn't mean he was top 20 or 30. she's literally about middle of the pack. The fact of the matter is still just as 5-s puts it, which is just a win-more hero which isn't all that great considering the other options available to you.

I am also not saying that Brood is arguably top 20, I am saying she is about middle of the pack like 50ish. Nobody wants to play against her just because it's annoying, not because she's game-changing or even dominating.

People have this notion that when top teams pick/ban heroes, those heroes must be competitive when that is not always the case.

On October 22 2011 10:38 fortheGG wrote:


When top teams pick/ban heroes, its for a reason. Brood isn't just annoying, its a solo farmer that you have to take care of and not just hope your solo out farms. Watch a few brood games and then post.

http://dota.replays.net/HeroReplays.aspx?hero=U006

You can search for replays containing any hero ( I can't speak Chinese but still manage to navigate so you should be fine.)

On October 23 2011 01:58 Judicator wrote:


...It's a solo hero that if the game drags out is worthless. She might fit into some mid-game strategies, but I already went over her apparent short falls that most top teams have learned to exploit.

You'd think so about the top teams picking/banning for some super deep reason regarding Brood, but it's not that complicated. She's annoying, it's really as simple as that. Just like how people thought NA was some super ganker because top teams picked/banned him for so long when they just didn't want to play against Mana Burn. Does he have the potential to get out of hand just like Brood? Sure. Same goes for a lot of heroes at that and thus making that criteria a poor one to judge the hero's relative worth in this environment.

And rofl at solo farmer bit, Weaver/Spec/AM are solo farmers too. All are just as hard to kill, if not harder. If you bring up the she pushes lanes bit, then jokes...