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On October 09 2011 20:58 LAN-f34r wrote:
Watching streams as a LoL player, I can't seem to figure out how the tower AI works. When will it attack heroes? Will towers attack you if you are the closest enemy unit to them like sc2 units do? Or am I missing something...
The tower AI has a multitude of factors it considers. What it basically boils down to is that it attacks units that attacks its allied heroes. Secondly attacking units that attacks the tower, starting with nearest. Third units that are attacking allied creeps. There are more rules, yet knowing those three is enough.
So if you want the tower to attack you, attack an enemy hero. If you want to lose tower agro, attack an allied creep since that isn't in the priority order. This check happens every 7 secs or when the target dies (I think).
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Funny thing with towers is that it actually attacks whoever attacked a hero recently, no matter allied or foe, you can save a teammate by a-clicking him :D
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wow didnt know that !
and a lot of people dont since I could have been saved 100 times with my pro towerdiving skills, instead they just flame...
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Medusa is utterly useless now. Slark probably a close second
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Drow is pretty worthless with the Manta nerf stacked on the fact that her animation bugs out. Close second by Luna, probably first. Third is...NA. Actually probably those 3 form a tier of why is this even a hero.
Medusa and Slark still have better upsides than either of those heroes.
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Na can still rape teamfights. He's not a bad trilaner, u just need to use bugs primarily instead of the other shit (60 dmg aoe silence is not bad). Slark I think I've lost more games with on my team then any other hero. Techies isn't nearly the worst, you don't play him as a miner (the worst way to play him, imo); he's a pusher nowadays and he's not bad at that. Once you get scepter he's suddenly one of the best teamfighters also.
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On October 10 2011 09:17 5-s wrote:
Na can still rape teamfights. He's not a bad trilaner, u just need to use bugs primarily instead of the other shit (60 dmg aoe silence is not bad). Slark I think I've lost more games with on my team then any other hero. Techies isn't nearly the worst, you don't play him as a miner (the worst way to play him, imo); he's a pusher nowadays and he's not bad at that. Once you get scepter he's suddenly one of the best teamfighters also.
40 damage per sec for 3 seconds, if you can land off enough they're silenced for a long time. the problem is the bugs cd is high until level 5 (still very high) and hes a melee hero with a crappy impale that a ranged hero named lion has
On October 10 2011 08:07 Corr wrote:
Medusa is utterly useless now. Slark probably a close second
medusa still useful, stone gaze is a big fat cockblock at times. the problem is ranged manta isnt great anymore and it takes an incredulous amount of farm to make her output damage compared to good carries these days
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On October 10 2011 08:07 Corr wrote:
Medusa is utterly useless now. Slark probably a close second
I wont say anything about Slark here, I cant see him making it into competitive play either.
But pls watch this Game an tell me again Medusa it useless. I agree that you need a good defensive strategy + even better execution but that does not make her "utterly" useless. She has just fallen out of favour or "doesn't fit into the current meta game" whatsoever. But i think shes far from useless.
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Slark can at least be dangerous if left alone in a team fight or otherwise, but NA is like my item progression sucks, my spells suck, my everything sucks.
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United States12240 Posts
On October 09 2011 21:02 blueclancer wrote:
im confused... dota 2 is using the characters title as their name... venomancer... drow ranger... what about tauren chieftain and naga siren? what will become of these heros which are clearly characters from warcraft given the game is now being produced by valve?
also LAN-f34r the towers in lol will always attack creeps in range before heros... however unlike in dota spells and attacks on an enemy hero will cause them to focus on you
They change the names when they have to. Tauren Chieftain is Earthshaker IIRC, and not sure who Siren is (not familiar enough with the game).
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On October 11 2011 03:28 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2011 21:02 blueclancer wrote:
im confused... dota 2 is using the characters title as their name... venomancer... drow ranger... what about tauren chieftain and naga siren? what will become of these heros which are clearly characters from warcraft given the game is now being produced by valve?
also LAN-f34r the towers in lol will always attack creeps in range before heros... however unlike in dota spells and attacks on an enemy hero will cause them to focus on you They change the names when they have to. Tauren Chieftain is Earthshaker IIRC, and not sure who Siren is (not familiar enough with the game).
TC is a different hero from Earthshaker. They are both str aoe casters though.
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United States12240 Posts
So with the latest patch that introduced practice bots last week, I'm finally getting around to giving Dota2 a shot. The problem is I'm almost completely unfamiliar with the heroes, the resource management, the strategy behind laning and grouping versus soloing, and many fundamentals that are essential to playing competitively.
- Hero choice? I'm still newb so I tried playing the most straightforward heroes of Sven and Juggernaut. Sven is okay, single-target stun for decent damage, but he seems pretty limited overall. Juggernaut has a little more utility in that Bladestorm can be used offensively as well as defensively, and it's amazing for clearing whole groups of creeps. Omnislash is also really good but it doesn't have the same stun impact that Sven's ability does. Juggernaut also seems like a monster for gold collection because between Bladestorm and his Critical passive he gets a lot of last hits. What is a good hero for beginners and intermediates that teaches crowd control and has solid utility and/or nuking capability?
- Item loadout? I absolutely need some form of Boots of Speed obviously. Should I always have Town Portals at the ready too? Do I want to sacrifice item slots for health/mana potions? With Juggernaut I had been saving up for +10 all stats items (Ultimate Orb) and those really help him out a lot and are priced decently. When should I start saving for a legendary weapon (Butterfly seems like a good choice for him but it's 6K)? Should I be constantly keeping my gold low via purchasing minor upgrades (buy a +1 all stats, replace it with a +2 all stats, replace that with a +3 all stats) or is it better to save up for a major upgrade?
- Grouping and ganking? When do I want to do this? When is it okay to leave a lane undefended? When do you want to defend a tower rather than counterattack an enemy tower? When should your team go after Roshan?
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On October 11 2011 04:03 Excalibur_Z wrote:
- Hero choice? I'm still newb so I tried playing the most straightforward heroes of Sven and Juggernaut. Sven is okay, single-target stun for decent damage, but he seems pretty limited overall. Juggernaut has a little more utility in that Bladestorm can be used offensively as well as defensively, and it's amazing for clearing whole groups of creeps. Omnislash is also really good but it doesn't have the same stun impact that Sven's ability does. Juggernaut also seems like a monster for gold collection because between Bladestorm and his Critical passive he gets a lot of last hits. What is a good hero for beginners and intermediates that teaches crowd control and has solid utility and/or nuking capability?
- Item loadout? I absolutely need some form of Boots of Speed obviously. Should I always have Town Portals at the ready too? Do I want to sacrifice item slots for health/mana potions? With Juggernaut I had been saving up for +10 all stats items (Ultimate Orb) and those really help him out a lot and are priced decently. When should I start saving for a legendary weapon (Butterfly seems like a good choice for him but it's 6K)? Should I be constantly keeping my gold low via purchasing minor upgrades (buy a +1 all stats, replace it with a +2 all stats, replace that with a +3 all stats) or is it better to save up for a major upgrade?
- Grouping and ganking? When do I want to do this? When is it okay to leave a lane undefended? When do you want to defend a tower rather than counterattack an enemy tower? When should your team go after Roshan?
I tend to recommend Lich for beginners since he his creep eating skill means you stick near your tower, which means easier laning. It is a great solo mid/support on side lane character. You tend to want mekasm as your go to item for him with a bunch of stat raisers such as bracers.
Item loadout depends on farm. If you get great farm, save for a higher tier item quickly, though after boots. It isn't 6k, the most expensive item is 3.8k since you buy and use it in pieces. Mostly you end up going for a few middle tier buffs after the boots, like bracer/wraith band and lean on those and better boots to get you to your next item.
Leave a lane when the gain is worth the opponent getting 300 gold and a level over you. Early game. 
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On October 11 2011 04:03 Excalibur_Z wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
So with the latest patch that introduced practice bots last week, I'm finally getting around to giving Dota2 a shot. The problem is I'm almost completely unfamiliar with the heroes, the resource management, the strategy behind laning and grouping versus soloing, and many fundamentals that are essential to playing competitively.
- Hero choice? I'm still newb so I tried playing the most straightforward heroes of Sven and Juggernaut. Sven is okay, single-target stun for decent damage, but he seems pretty limited overall. Juggernaut has a little more utility in that Bladestorm can be used offensively as well as defensively, and it's amazing for clearing whole groups of creeps. Omnislash is also really good but it doesn't have the same stun impact that Sven's ability does. Juggernaut also seems like a monster for gold collection because between Bladestorm and his Critical passive he gets a lot of last hits. What is a good hero for beginners and intermediates that teaches crowd control and has solid utility and/or nuking capability?
- Item loadout? I absolutely need some form of Boots of Speed obviously. Should I always have Town Portals at the ready too? Do I want to sacrifice item slots for health/mana potions? With Juggernaut I had been saving up for +10 all stats items (Ultimate Orb) and those really help him out a lot and are priced decently. When should I start saving for a legendary weapon (Butterfly seems like a good choice for him but it's 6K)? Should I be constantly keeping my gold low via purchasing minor upgrades (buy a +1 all stats, replace it with a +2 all stats, replace that with a +3 all stats) or is it better to save up for a major upgrade?
- Grouping and ganking? When do I want to do this? When is it okay to leave a lane undefended? When do you want to defend a tower rather than counterattack an enemy tower? When should your team go after Roshan?
Hero choice
Try playing a lot of heroes to get used to their abilities. Dota is all about knowing what your hero and the enemy hero can do at any point in the game so you can decide if you should play passive because they have a stun or go back when they have a nuke etc.
But if you want a specific hero I would say Lion is a pretty good hero for beginners. He has 2 disables and a very powerful nuke ulti. But he is not the hero you try to farm up, you support the carries on your lane and try to gank enemy carries.
Item choice
At the beginning of the game you should just buy all the recommended starting items. From what I have seen from streams they fit very good to the heroes.
That's also almost the only time you buy regen items. Usually they are just for the first minutes of lane play after that you substainyour mana and hp with other means like a bottle, urn of shadows, magic stick or going back.
RegardingTPs, I would say it's always good to have a tp, but don't use them too often. Just use them when you know a tower push is coming and you can defend it with a tp, if you want to gank an enemy on another lane or want to safe an ally.
For other items you should just follow the recommended items of the heroes. Usually you get boots as soon as possible and your the other items in the "Early Game"-Tab.
After that start working on your Core Items. I'm not in the Beta but from what I've seen on most heroes you don't need to get all of the core items(some of them are more important against certain heroes etc.,you will figure these things out with time)
but one of them is usually very important and makes the hero a lot stronger, like for example a dagger on Sandking or Earthshaker.
After that look at the Luxury Items and go for one of them(if you need hp get a heart etc...)
You should never buy items you don't need just to keep your gold low. If you are working towards an items that consist of multiple parts you need to assess which to buy first. If you already have lot of gold and have a lane to safely farm on try to get the most expensive part first, but if you are dying a lot just try to get any part, but if the item has a recipe it is usually bought last.
Grouping and ganking
Probably the most difficult aspect in dota to do right.
This is very hero dependent. If you are playing a carry you mostly stay on a lane and farm while being protected by your team. With other heroes you gank the enemy carry or assist your carry so he can farm.
The gameplan of your team is also highly depents on your heroes and the heroes of your enemy.
If you think you have stronger carries than the enemy you whole team should play passive and try to let your carry farm. If you have heroes with good aoe ultis like Enigma, Earthshaker or Sandking your team should try forcing teamfights etc.
These are things you can only learn over time while playing. This is why I wrote at the beginning it is good to play a lot of heroes so you know what they do. If you see 2 heroes at the tower and your are with an ally you need to know what they can do(can they stun me when I dive the tower, do I survive their nukes etc.) to decide if you want to push or go back.
Roshan:
The easiest way to do Roshan is after a won team fight or after you pick one enemy hero off. With killing Roshan you get an additional advantage.
The rule of thump is you go for Roshan if the enemy does not know that you are doing Roshan or if you are sure you can win a teamfight, because if the enemy knows you are doing him they will probaly try to stop you.
Well I wrote more than i wanted but I hope i could help. Dota is a hard game to get into but I hope you don't give up because it's deffinetly worth it
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On October 11 2011 04:03 Excalibur_Z wrote:
So with the latest patch that introduced practice bots last week, I'm finally getting around to giving Dota2 a shot. The problem is I'm almost completely unfamiliar with the heroes, the resource management, the strategy behind laning and grouping versus soloing, and many fundamentals that are essential to playing competitively.
- Hero choice? I'm still newb so I tried playing the most straightforward heroes of Sven and Juggernaut. Sven is okay, single-target stun for decent damage, but he seems pretty limited overall. Juggernaut has a little more utility in that Bladestorm can be used offensively as well as defensively, and it's amazing for clearing whole groups of creeps. Omnislash is also really good but it doesn't have the same stun impact that Sven's ability does. Juggernaut also seems like a monster for gold collection because between Bladestorm and his Critical passive he gets a lot of last hits. What is a good hero for beginners and intermediates that teaches crowd control and has solid utility and/or nuking capability?
- Item loadout? I absolutely need some form of Boots of Speed obviously. Should I always have Town Portals at the ready too? Do I want to sacrifice item slots for health/mana potions? With Juggernaut I had been saving up for +10 all stats items (Ultimate Orb) and those really help him out a lot and are priced decently. When should I start saving for a legendary weapon (Butterfly seems like a good choice for him but it's 6K)? Should I be constantly keeping my gold low via purchasing minor upgrades (buy a +1 all stats, replace it with a +2 all stats, replace that with a +3 all stats) or is it better to save up for a major upgrade?
- Grouping and ganking? When do I want to do this? When is it okay to leave a lane undefended? When do you want to defend a tower rather than counterattack an enemy tower? When should your team go after Roshan?
1. Sven,Jugger are really good but imo Lion / Crystal Maiden(CM) are much easier to learn. Lion has really good nuking potential,a good animation and good cc potential. Jugger is an amzing hero to pubstomp with as you can solo/duo almost any hero early game. Sven is a much more viable team pick so if you're not pub stomping atm I'd pick sven as he forces you to play with someone else and has very easy skills to learn.
tldr = Pick Lion, own some noobs with his amazing burst.
2. Item loadout => boots first is a very aggresive opening and kind of implies you're better. This isnt LoL meaning you have to walk back, and the ditance is much longer. If you want to be safe and secure yourself some farm you'd go for the 100g pot + the 90g heal and some +1 branches. As jugger you're aiming for early quick damage as you shine early to mid but fall off late game. (The spin doesnt scale with damage so its mainly used to escape). A better item than butterfly would be the battlefury as the perseverance is a great source of mana for a hero that doesnt have alot of it (and its easy to build considering how cheap the parts are). As to upgrades it really depends on how the game is going. If you need items now,as in you're loosing early, you get the +3s but if you're dominating you'd aim to get a big item faster.
3. The answer to this depends on a lot of things. The first thing you have to consider is your role in the game. If you're playing a hero who's job is to stay safe and dominate late game (medusa) you dont gank. If you're playing a hero who's main goal is to start strong early and dominate mid game, you could consider ganking. If you see an opportunity to gank (a good rune, a low hp lane) then you can try to do so if you're playing a 2nd hero on a lane.If you're a solo you have to weigh the advantage of ganking against the loss of farm/level.
I hope I understand the tower question correctly. You'd always try to defend but you'd trade towers if you know you cannot win the fight at tower (someone just died and it would be 4v5 or something like that).
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I think Lich and Venomancer are good beginner heroes. They are decently strong laners with Lich being very strong in lane, are ranged, and don't have a lot of intricacies to play aside from ulti placement and ward placement with veno. You just can't screw up too badly with either hero as a beginner.
Item loadout is completely dependent on hero. For example, Yurie's recommendation of Mekansm for Lich is very good because due to Lich's Dark Ritual skill, he will almost always have mana for Mekansm use. Mekansm is also good in that it makes use of the gg branches you start out the game with and is just a very very strong midgame team item.
With Lich, I like to start out with 4 gg branches, set of Tangos, Healing Salve, and either chicken or Observer wards depending on what your teammates are getting. If I'm getting Observer wards then I go with 1 less gg branch as otherwise I won't have inventory space. Then I usually try to finish magic wand, Mekansm, boots. typically I will have headdress + boots + magic wand before finishing Mekansm but this could vary depending on how the game goes, what the team's warding needs are.
Also, whether you are saving for a high end item or whether you are quickly buying lower end items depend on whether you are being ganked heavily, being pushed heavily. If your enemy is letting you have time farming items, then farm items, but if your enemy is knocking on your door, then you don't really have time to get the high end items as you might lose the game before you get them.
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On October 09 2011 19:55 Curu wrote:
Worst heroes is Techies. How is this even a debate?
The entire hero is countered by Gem.
imo keeper of the light is the worst one by far
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no way, keeper has been seeing a lot of competitive play recently. great pusher, good global presence with his ulti, essential mana battery for teammates. Keeper can be very good in the right lineup.
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On October 10 2011 22:23 Judicator wrote:
Slark can at least be dangerous if left alone in a team fight or otherwise, but NA is like my item progression sucks, my spells suck, my everything sucks.
level 1 you can save up a pocket 240 damage and 6 seconds silence with 2 corpses. that is not useless in anyway
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What exactly is Windrunner's role in competitive games? I had assumed she was some kind of semicarry, but then I always see people get mek, force staff, etc, instead of something like scythe of vyse or something on her. Can she still semicarry with those items or is she just decent early damage output for the team or what? And if she's just decent damage output, what are the reasons to take her over someone like Lich, Lina, Puck, etc?
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EPT
