Alchemist makes so many fun lanes though. Really depends on your definition of unplayable though. You won't be seeing alchemist, bloodseeker, spirit breaker, etc etc at the international, but whether that makes them "unplayable" or not is more a matter of opinion.

writer22816

United States5775 Posts

August 23 2012 08:50 GMT

#3383

How do you counter Jugg? I know this hero is supposed to be pretty shitty in terms of competitive tier but no doubt about it, he's an excellent pubstomper. I have played games with him and it's ridiculously easy to get kills, but I'm not sure how to counter him. He's a melee agility so he should be pretty bad in lane, but he also has his bladefury which does a ridiculous amount of damage so it's hard to come ahead in trades. Coupled with his omnistrike he's a real pain in the ass even in teamfights >< Whenever he lanes with someone like CM and veno he seems to be unstoppable.

Honestly the last few games I wanted to play some real heroes (not like lycan furion etc) but every game some guy on the enemy team always picks annoying invis/stompy heroes like furion/riki/NA/jugg/SB/BH etc. and the games just aren't fun anymore.

njt7

Sweden769 Posts

August 23 2012 09:04 GMT

#3384

writer22816 your question was not really that simple. Anyway to give u a simple answer I would say Slardar would be my choice to face of against the heroes you mentioned. He is pretty strong on lane vs. Juggernaut because he hits hard and have a large hp pool. And if shits hits the fan you can always just run away. You will of course need a strong lane partner to support you as well.

Best support vs. Juggernaut imo is probably Dazzle. Both of his poison and heal does physical dmg so it will hit him through his bladefury. So if he starts spinning into you while your creeps are still alive. Just stand and fight and heal before all the creeps die, that should fuck him up pretty good.

ChrisXIV

Austria3553 Posts

August 23 2012 10:05 GMT

#3385

While Veno is a beast when laned with Jugg, he's extremely good against him as well. Omniknight is also a decent choice.

Kill lanes like SD/Lesh take care of him easily.

Stancel

Singapore15360 Posts

August 23 2012 10:16 GMT

#3386

On August 23 2012 19:05 ChrisXIV wrote:
While Veno is a beast when laned with Jugg, he's extremely good against him as well. Omniknight is also a decent choice.

Kill lanes like SD/Lesh take care of him easily.

yep

Gale slow isn't dispelled if you pop bladefury/bkb, when I learnt that I was so happy.

ahswtini

Northern Ireland22212 Posts

August 23 2012 10:34 GMT

#3387

But does gale affect him when he's already spinning?

writer22816

United States5775 Posts

August 23 2012 11:11 GMT

#3388

wtf my friend and I ran SD/Lesh and we got raped by a CM/Jugg lane. LOL maybe we just suck but once the jugg starts spinning nobody can do anything to him

BlitzerSC

Italy8800 Posts

August 23 2012 11:15 GMT

#3389

On August 23 2012 20:11 writer22816 wrote:

Show nested quote +

wtf my friend and I ran SD/Lesh and we got raped by a CM/Jugg lane. LOL maybe we just suck but once the jugg starts spinning nobody can do anything to him

^ This happened to me too. It was me ( leshrac ) and my friend ( sandking ) vs Jugg and another support which I can't remember right now. We got raped really hard.

ChrisXIV

Austria3553 Posts

August 23 2012 11:30 GMT

#3390

On August 23 2012 20:11 writer22816 wrote:

Show nested quote +

wtf my friend and I ran SD/Lesh and we got raped by a CM/Jugg lane. LOL maybe we just suck but once the jugg starts spinning nobody can do anything to him

Disruption has a duration of 2.5 seconds, so that means only 2.5 seconds of Bladefury( and maybe Frostbite). Diabolic Edict goes through magic immunity, so just pop it when Jugg tries to spinwalk you to death. Then there's Soul Catcher - Jugg is a squishy agi hero after all, he can't tank anything while you have it on him. Both are also ranged, meaning that CM HAS to use Frostbite or Crystal Nova to initiate, making it quite obvious when Juggernaut is going to start spinning.

Dead9

United States4725 Posts

August 23 2012 11:35 GMT

#3391

if you have dual ranged (or single range double stun) you can usually zone him out
a lot of the time you can just autoattack to kill him or force him back while he's spinning
spin doesn't actually do that much damage, especially if you can force him to spin early

a lot of it comes down to good positioning

Qbek

Poland12923 Posts

August 23 2012 11:37 GMT

#3392

If you ever get caught both in the spin you're doing something very wrong. Also, always take the initiative against jugg, don't let him do his thing, force him to waste bladefury then, since it has longish cd, do it again

igotmyown

United States4291 Posts

August 23 2012 11:40 GMT

#3393

Beastmaster's a better invis counter than slardar. People think amplify damage/track is a hard counter, but it's really only going to work if they keep laning.

You're better off with a gem/hawk/roar for a long, ranged stun. You shouldn't die to ganks, and invis heroes can't roam while you're out of vision.

ZerG~LegenD

Sweden1179 Posts

August 23 2012 11:53 GMT

#3394

2v2 lanes are the stuff low level match making games. Competively Jugg would never be played on anything but a trilane or a dual lane with an aggressive jungler to support, and Jugger would be guaranteed freefarm (or close too) during the early game. The real question is why have a Juggernaut when you could have a Morph, a Naga or a Chaos Knight instead? There are situations when Jugg shines, but they'll not only be rarer than for some other carries, but captains are also less likely to recognize them since he's not played a lot.

Stancel

Singapore15360 Posts

August 23 2012 12:26 GMT

#3395

On August 23 2012 20:53 ZerG~LegenD wrote:
The real question is why have a Juggernaut when you could have a Morph, a Naga or a Chaos Knight instead?

you don't play matchmaking at all, I can tell

fleeze

Germany895 Posts

August 23 2012 13:01 GMT

#3396

On August 23 2012 20:53 ZerG~LegenD wrote:
2v2 lanes are the stuff low level match making games. Competively Jugg would never be played on anything but a trilane or a dual lane with an aggressive jungler to support, and Jugger would be guaranteed freefarm (or close too) during the early game. The real question is why have a Juggernaut when you could have a Morph, a Naga or a Chaos Knight instead? There are situations when Jugg shines, but they'll not only be rarer than for some other carries, but captains are also less likely to recognize them since he's not played a lot.

he has healing ward and magic immunity which separates him pretty much from other hard carrys.
this makes him a specialized pick in a push heavy lineup because he can push towers with lvl 2.

Nilrem

United States3684 Posts

August 23 2012 13:12 GMT

#3397

For OD, if sand king is using his ult, does imprisonment stop it or does it continue while Sk is imprisoned?