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United States1674 Posts
On June 20 2012 10:29 Ottoxlol wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2012 09:40 5-s wrote:On June 20 2012 09:30 Ottoxlol wrote:On June 20 2012 04:54 Candadar wrote:
Is it just me or has Shadow Shaman fallen off the face of the earth in competitive Western games?
What the hell happened. dual mid lanes, no escape mechanism, not that reliable push. he still gets in sometimes as a pusher support when veno is banned It's still dumb though that Europeans constantly first pick a hero -> other team figures out how to counter -> stop picking altogether. Now that teams can get it for last pick, it's definitely worth taking (when the opponent doesn't have the counters). Overall I think the drafting part of the game is still very unrefined. I disagree. The problems with SS are not his counters, but there are better picks for this metagame. Usually teams go for early/mid pushes, wards have too long cd and too many times you have to make a decision between dropping the wards at the start of the fight (if you don't most support rhastas die instantly) or you save it for when you get 2 kills and want to push the tower. The high cd also causes that you can't just drop the wards and when the enemy arrives retreat, you have to be much more careful with it then any other pusher with their skills. The drafting part will always be "unrefined" since new heroes make it to dota2 or new trends come up or the whole meta changes. For instance an example for this would be Lich, when the full on pusher meta was on, no one picked him because he can't push, he can't antipush and he needs lvl6 to be effective something that is a luxury against heavy push. Before this he was instabanned/picked, because his great ult and frost armor was really nice in the carry+teamfight meta. Right now he's slowly coming back into drafts that focus a little bit more on mid game teamfights (and denying xp) than push.
SS has one of the shortest Ult cds... It's pretty much every fight. I'm saying unrefined compared to China scene (which does shift, but I think they're much more stable overall)
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On June 20 2012 10:29 Ottoxlol wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2012 09:40 5-s wrote:On June 20 2012 09:30 Ottoxlol wrote:On June 20 2012 04:54 Candadar wrote:
Is it just me or has Shadow Shaman fallen off the face of the earth in competitive Western games?
What the hell happened. dual mid lanes, no escape mechanism, not that reliable push. he still gets in sometimes as a pusher support when veno is banned It's still dumb though that Europeans constantly first pick a hero -> other team figures out how to counter -> stop picking altogether. Now that teams can get it for last pick, it's definitely worth taking (when the opponent doesn't have the counters). Overall I think the drafting part of the game is still very unrefined. I disagree. The problems with SS are not his counters, but there are better picks for this metagame. Usually teams go for early/mid pushes, wards have too long cd and too many times you have to make a decision between dropping the wards at the start of the fight (if you don't most support rhastas die instantly) or you save it for when you get 2 kills and want to push the tower. The high cd also causes that you can't just drop the wards and when the enemy arrives retreat, you have to be much more careful with it then any other pusher with their skills. The drafting part will always be "unrefined" since new heroes make it to dota2 or new trends come up or the whole meta changes. For instance an example for this would be Lich, when the full on pusher meta was on, no one picked him because he can't push, he can't antipush and he needs lvl6 to be effective something that is a luxury against heavy push. Before this he was instabanned/picked, because his great ult and frost armor was really nice in the carry+teamfight meta. Right now he's slowly coming back into drafts that focus a little bit more on mid game teamfights (and denying xp) than push.
Wasn't Rhasta extremelly popular when pushing was even more popular? And he is mainly talking about solo mid rhasta, I believe, since that was his usual role, not full suport. I do feel that picks change too much only because people get used to new strats, learn how to deal with popular picks, etc. Why has weaver fallen so low? I remember people always saying how strong she was in the beggining of Dota 2, and not because of the lack of heroes, since it was mostly based on the information from Dota 1. Morphling also has its ups and downs, he was in a very good spot recently. I believe mTw picked Rhasta against Mouz in DH and it really worked fine, you don't have to completelly forget these heroes, some of them could at least be situational last picks.
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Questions regarding Rubick that the wiki doesn't answer (I can't be bothered DLing the test client):
1) When an enemy is lifted are they still target-able? ie is it like euls or just a stun?
2) Does his fade bolt go to every target? ie you have an enemy in the middle of two other enemies which are more than 500 range apart, but less than 500 to the middle target. If you cast bolt at the middle enemy, will it split and go to both heroes, or just go to one and find no other valid target (Zeus's arclightning style).
3) Do any of his spells go through BKB/linkens?
4)If he gets ags, when he steals another ulti does he get the ags benefit?
5)Can he re-steal a spell to reset the cooldown, or is there a hidden cooldown for every spell (invoker style). ie can you steal tide's ulti, use it, steal another spell, then steal and use tide's ulti again (presuming he didn't use another spell meantime)?
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1) Yes you can still hit them while they're flying
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On June 20 2012 09:40 5-s wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2012 09:30 Ottoxlol wrote:On June 20 2012 04:54 Candadar wrote:
Is it just me or has Shadow Shaman fallen off the face of the earth in competitive Western games?
What the hell happened. dual mid lanes, no escape mechanism, not that reliable push. he still gets in sometimes as a pusher support when veno is banned It's still dumb though that Europeans constantly first pick a hero -> other team figures out how to counter -> stop picking altogether. Now that teams can get it for last pick, it's definitely worth taking (when the opponent doesn't have the counters). Overall I think the drafting part of the game is still very unrefined.
Like the dreamhack surge in tinker picks.
Rhasta's not an ideal trilane support (although he can good against hard to kill heroes, though buffed lion is better). He can't long lane, and the recent morphling metagame means dumping your farm into a trilane rhasta while they free farm a morph isn't so hot.
So he's often a mid pick, and as more heroes are introduced (which also unlocks some previously banned heroes), there's a lot of competition (invoker, ns, furion). And the recent melee + support (like shadow demon) is too dangerous to lane against. If invoker doesn't get through it's furion or panda+shadow demon.
It's a lot like what's happening with midlane qop phasing out.
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And since I'm posting here, why don't lions go hex first, since it was buffed?
level 1 impale: 60 damage, .5 second duration, and of course the time they're flying in the air (during which you can't hit them)
level 1 hex: 1.75 duration. If your team can get in 2 right clicks in the extra 1.25 seconds, you're ahead.
Also you can't dodge it like an impale at the edge of casting range.
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On June 20 2012 16:40 igotmyown wrote:
And since I'm posting here, why don't lions go hex first, since it was buffed?
level 1 impale: 60 damage, .5 second duration, and of course the time they're flying in the air (during which you can't hit them)
level 1 hex: 1.75 duration. If your team can get in 2 right clicks in the extra 1.25 seconds, you're ahead.
Also you can't dodge it like an impale at the edge of casting range.
It's also worth to note that impale can hit more than one target, and that you can't move when stunned.
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On June 20 2012 15:53 LAN-f34r wrote:
Questions regarding Rubick that the wiki doesn't answer (I can't be bothered DLing the test client):
1) When an enemy is lifted are they still target-able? ie is it like euls or just a stun?
2) Does his fade bolt go to every target? ie you have an enemy in the middle of two other enemies which are more than 500 range apart, but less than 500 to the middle target. If you cast bolt at the middle enemy, will it split and go to both heroes, or just go to one and find no other valid target (Zeus's arclightning style).
3) Do any of his spells go through BKB/linkens?
4)If he gets ags, when he steals another ulti does he get the ags benefit?
5)Can he re-steal a spell to reset the cooldown, or is there a hidden cooldown for every spell (invoker style). ie can you steal tide's ulti, use it, steal another spell, then steal and use tide's ulti again (presuming he didn't use another spell meantime)?
My answers are based on Dota1! Maybe it works differently in dota2, but I doubt that if it does it's intentional.
1) its like a stun, can be targeted
2) its like arclightning
3) I don't know precisely, but i would guess if the spell he stole originally goes trough bkb, then it will also when stolen. Other than that the question is wether his ult goes trough magic immunity, wich iirc it does (I recall stealing bladefury or rage when it was active, but maybe my memory is tricking me  ).
4) No, he won't benefit from aghs.
5) This is a good question, i don't know the answer, but I guess he will have it on cd. If you resteal the same spell, like ravage->ravage, then it won't reset the cooldown, but I don't know what happens if you insert something inbetween, like ravage->other spell->ravage.
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On June 20 2012 16:47 Kuzmorgo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2012 15:53 LAN-f34r wrote:
Questions regarding Rubick that the wiki doesn't answer (I can't be bothered DLing the test client):
1) When an enemy is lifted are they still target-able? ie is it like euls or just a stun?
2) Does his fade bolt go to every target? ie you have an enemy in the middle of two other enemies which are more than 500 range apart, but less than 500 to the middle target. If you cast bolt at the middle enemy, will it split and go to both heroes, or just go to one and find no other valid target (Zeus's arclightning style).
3) Do any of his spells go through BKB/linkens?
4)If he gets ags, when he steals another ulti does he get the ags benefit?
5)Can he re-steal a spell to reset the cooldown, or is there a hidden cooldown for every spell (invoker style). ie can you steal tide's ulti, use it, steal another spell, then steal and use tide's ulti again (presuming he didn't use another spell meantime)? My answers are based on Dota1! Maybe it works differently in dota2, but I doubt that if it does it's intentional. 1) its like a stun, can be targeted 2) its like arclightning 3) I don't know precisely, but i would guess if the spell he stole originally goes trough bkb, then it will also when stolen. Other than that the question is wether his ult goes trough magic immunity, wich iirc it does (I recall stealing bladefury or rage when it was active, but maybe my memory is tricking me ). 4) No, he won't benefit from aghs. 5) This is a good question, i don't know the answer, but I guess he will have it on cd. If you resteal the same spell, like ravage->ravage, then it won't reset the cooldown, but I don't know what happens if you insert something inbetween, like ravage->other spell->ravage.
3) I think you are 100% correct here, since his ultimate is a targeted spell it will go through BKB. Almost every ultimate that is a targeted spell can be cast through BKB (but not all take full effect, some 0 effect such as Finger/Laguna)
4) He copies the level of the spell as well when he steals it. If the hero that he stole the ultimate from had aghanim's, then he will gain the spell with the aghanim's buff.
5) Yes, he will have it on CD if you insert something in between (hidden cooldown as the other guy said)
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On June 20 2012 19:06 The Great Taste wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2012 16:47 Kuzmorgo wrote:On June 20 2012 15:53 LAN-f34r wrote:
Questions regarding Rubick that the wiki doesn't answer (I can't be bothered DLing the test client):
1) When an enemy is lifted are they still target-able? ie is it like euls or just a stun?
2) Does his fade bolt go to every target? ie you have an enemy in the middle of two other enemies which are more than 500 range apart, but less than 500 to the middle target. If you cast bolt at the middle enemy, will it split and go to both heroes, or just go to one and find no other valid target (Zeus's arclightning style).
3) Do any of his spells go through BKB/linkens?
4)If he gets ags, when he steals another ulti does he get the ags benefit?
5)Can he re-steal a spell to reset the cooldown, or is there a hidden cooldown for every spell (invoker style). ie can you steal tide's ulti, use it, steal another spell, then steal and use tide's ulti again (presuming he didn't use another spell meantime)? My answers are based on Dota1! Maybe it works differently in dota2, but I doubt that if it does it's intentional. 1) its like a stun, can be targeted 2) its like arclightning 3) I don't know precisely, but i would guess if the spell he stole originally goes trough bkb, then it will also when stolen. Other than that the question is wether his ult goes trough magic immunity, wich iirc it does (I recall stealing bladefury or rage when it was active, but maybe my memory is tricking me ). 4) No, he won't benefit from aghs. 5) This is a good question, i don't know the answer, but I guess he will have it on cd. If you resteal the same spell, like ravage->ravage, then it won't reset the cooldown, but I don't know what happens if you insert something inbetween, like ravage->other spell->ravage. 3) I think you are 100% correct here, since his ultimate is a targeted spell it will go through BKB. Almost every ultimate that is a targeted spell can be cast through BKB (but not all take full effect, some 0 effect such as Finger/Laguna) 4) He copies the level of the spell as well when he steals it. If the hero that he stole the ultimate from had aghanim's, then he will gain the spell with the aghanim's buff. 5) Yes, he will have it on CD if you insert something in between (hidden cooldown as the other guy said)
Hmm, I'm still not sure about it, but what you say about 4) does make sense. However the original question was if you buy agha's on rubick
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As someone who is new to dota, what is the best way to learn? I've gathered that it is best to focus on one or two heroes and just play versus bots to start. CM and VS seem to be fairly straight forward to play, but as they aren't carries, should I still practice last-hitting with them? or should I practice a carry first?
Thanks in advance ^.^
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On June 20 2012 20:37 2stra wrote:
As someone who is new to dota, what is the best way to learn? I've gathered that it is best to focus on one or two heroes and just play versus bots to start. CM and VS seem to be fairly straight forward to play, but as they aren't carries, should I still practice last-hitting with them? or should I practice a carry first?
Thanks in advance ^.^
What I did to learn was just play 20-25 bot games, as random heroes each time. You'll learn what different heroes do, what to do against them, and what to build on them.
If you also need further build guidance (items, skills, lane, etc.) I'd use www.dotafire.com, they've got some decent guides there to help newer players out.
With support heroes you should still practice last-hitting so you can get some farm in the later game, or when your lane partner messes up/dies, for more wards, etc.
Also, you should check this article out for warding: http://www.team-dignitas.net/articles/blogs/DotA/1092/Dota-2-Ultimate-Guide-to-Warding/
Supports aren't the only people who need to ward, and you need to know where/when to ward at certain times to accomplish certain things, such as blocking creep camps in the woods.
The best thing you can ever do to learn is just play. Don't worry about kills, deaths, wins or losses. Just play the game and have fun, and learn things along the way.
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I would shy away from carries. Also, VS and CM are kind of tough because they are generally relied upon as supports which requires they give up farm for carries and spend most of their income on wards/courier/ect.
The best role to start with, in my opinion, is strength initiator and secondary support.
First, try out sand king, tidehunter, earth shaker, sven. Once people start really leaving their lanes, roll around with your team and pick fights. This will give you a good idea of what a winnable fight looks like and will also get you in the action using your spells. It is by no means easy to play initiators, it just requires that you have constant awareness, the ability to judge and analyze situations on the fly, and most importantly the ability to play with your team. Last hitting is nothing you should worry about at this stage of the game. It is a trivial mechanic that you will pick up over time through practice games and experience.
Second, try out Enigma and dark seer in the jungling role. It is really easy with those two heroes, you can watch videos on youtube explaining it or just play around in a practice game for a little while. Also, try out beast master, windrunner, and puck in either solo sidelanes or in mid roles. These are all not easy heroes to play, but they help you work on map awareness, lane dynamics, and ganking These are some of the most important skills to learn and can only be learned by playing and practicing.
Now, when you are playing these roles, just do what feels natural, try and understand how your skills work and how best to use them. Basically, every game of dota you play at this point, you should be going balls out trying to see what you can get away with. If you die, you will have time to reflect on what caused your death, use that time and learn from it. You become a good player by learning from your experiences and adapting your play style. If you get killed in lane, you look at where you were and what your opponents did to kill you. If your team loses a team fight, look at possible ways you could have had a bigger impact in the teamfight. If you win a game, reflect on the things you did well and the things you did poorly.
tl;dr / conclusion
Pick a hero that has an impact on teamfights and relies on map awareness and skillful use of abilities, not farm. Play with your team. Reflect on every death, gank, win, loss, and determine what you did right and what you did wrong so you play better next time. Good luck, have fun, it is a hell of a game when you start getting into it and let me tell you, there is no limit to how much fun this game can be
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thanks for the quick replies. I guess I just gotta get my hands dirty, I actually really look forward to learning this (a new) game!
thanks again
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What's the deal with signing up to play DOTA, but not being able to play?
What's the deal with keys?
etc.
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United States1674 Posts
On June 21 2012 11:22 Selkie wrote:
What's the deal with signing up to play DOTA, but not being able to play?
What's the deal with keys?
etc.
Not sure what you're referring to. If you mean the random invite signups on playdota / dota2.com, that's random.. not everyone gets one right away. Keys (Treasure keys) are used to open chests for strange / unusual items. They cost $2.50 each from the store, but are commonly used as a trading currency in game.
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On June 20 2012 20:37 2stra wrote:
As someone who is new to dota, what is the best way to learn? I've gathered that it is best to focus on one or two heroes and just play versus bots to start. CM and VS seem to be fairly straight forward to play, but as they aren't carries, should I still practice last-hitting with them? or should I practice a carry first?
Thanks in advance ^.^
the best way to learn is to first admit to yourself that you're suck at dota, and would be for the next hundreds of games
then read this http://www.purgegamers.com/welcome-to-dota-you-suck
and I would advise to stay away from ranked match before you at least know the basic mechanic, there's no point of possibly ruin 4 other people experiences when you can learn as well by playing against Bot (sometimes they are more intelligence than people)
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I remember Rubick being unable to steal many spells due to technical issues, engine limitations (unsure) and hotkey conflicts.
Since now he basically can steal every spell that isn't Invoker's Quas, Wex, Exort and Invoke. What happens when you play on legacy hotkeys and steal something like DP's Exorcism or Invoker's Alacrity?
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United States1674 Posts
On June 21 2012 20:25 [17]Purple wrote:
I remember Rubick being unable to steal many spells due to technical issues, engine limitations (unsure) and hotkey conflicts.
Since now he basically can steal every spell that isn't Invoker's Quas, Wex, Exort and Invoke. What happens when you play on legacy hotkeys and steal something like DP's Exorcism or Invoker's Alacrity?
All the hotkeys are simplified (d, f, etc.)
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On June 20 2012 16:47 Kuzmorgo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2012 15:53 LAN-f34r wrote:
Questions regarding Rubick that the wiki doesn't answer (I can't be bothered DLing the test client):
1) When an enemy is lifted are they still target-able? ie is it like euls or just a stun?
2) Does his fade bolt go to every target? ie you have an enemy in the middle of two other enemies which are more than 500 range apart, but less than 500 to the middle target. If you cast bolt at the middle enemy, will it split and go to both heroes, or just go to one and find no other valid target (Zeus's arclightning style).
3) Do any of his spells go through BKB/linkens?
4)If he gets ags, when he steals another ulti does he get the ags benefit?
5)Can he re-steal a spell to reset the cooldown, or is there a hidden cooldown for every spell (invoker style). ie can you steal tide's ulti, use it, steal another spell, then steal and use tide's ulti again (presuming he didn't use another spell meantime)? My answers are based on Dota1! Maybe it works differently in dota2, but I doubt that if it does it's intentional. 1) its like a stun, can be targeted 2) its like arclightning 3) I don't know precisely, but i would guess if the spell he stole originally goes trough bkb, then it will also when stolen. Other than that the question is wether his ult goes trough magic immunity, wich iirc it does (I recall stealing bladefury or rage when it was active, but maybe my memory is tricking me ). 4) No, he won't benefit from aghs. 5) This is a good question, i don't know the answer, but I guess he will have it on cd. If you resteal the same spell, like ravage->ravage, then it won't reset the cooldown, but I don't know what happens if you insert something inbetween, like ravage->other spell->ravage.
He actually does get the benefit of aghanims!
If player x has aghanims and he steals the ultimate of player x he gets the ability along with the aghanim upgrade.
Also, if he has an aghanims and he steals an ultimate from a hero with a scepter upgrade able ultimate who doesn't have an aghanims he will receive the upgraded version of the ultimate spell.
Example: Rubick is fighting a Juggernaut while Juggernaut is holding aghanims. If he steals Juggernaut's ult he will receive the upgraded ultimate of Juggernaut.
Example 2: If Rubick has an aghanims and Juggernaut does not, when Rubick steal Juggernaut's ult he will receive the upgraded version ultimate of Juggernaut.
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EPT
