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Forum Index > Dota 2 Strategy
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Archeon
Profile Joined May 2011
3261 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-09 15:40:39
August 09 2016 15:25 GMT
#24041
Has anyone experimented with blink dagger on qop? I mean mirana builds it as well and I see qops dying all the time in pro games because they commit to a 2 or three man scream and are sitting ducks thereafter.
low gravity, yes-yes!
Velzi
Profile Joined June 2012
Finland659 Posts
August 09 2016 15:41 GMT
#24042
i think the blink cooldown being 6s and leap cooldown being 18s has something to do with it but what do i know.
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you to their level and then beat you with experience. http://www.dotabuff.com/players/115305822 https://yasp.co/players/115305822
Shock710
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Australia6097 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-09 16:01:38
August 09 2016 16:00 GMT
#24043
qop already falls off hard in the later game without investment into items im not sure the blink would be that useful to solve a problem that could be dealt with by either better play (positioning, waiting out spells) or a lategame item that provides stats/survivability: linkens, bkb, shiva.

also the way they use their blink/leap to clear a wave is different, potm clears the wave much faster when she leaps in (with aghs) so after like 1 sec she would like to have the option to get away but leap is on 16s.
but for qop she cant clear the wave unless shes using an ult, u blink in hit the creeps down to scream of pain range, then scream and want to blink out, by that time ur blink is probably already up.
dAPhREAk gives Shock a * | [23:55] <Shock710> that was out of context -_- [16:26] <@motbob> Good question, Shock!
Archeon
Profile Joined May 2011
3261 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-09 16:17:38
August 09 2016 16:11 GMT
#24044
Yeah I don't doubt that mirana outclasses qop in pretty much every way atm, I just think that with blink dagger you could often skip bkb, get better screams off and get out of non-damaging silences (which are most of them). You can also actually get out of non-damaging setups like disruption before getting or stunned.

Also qop's blink cd often doesn't matter when she offensively blinks in, she's 90% of the time just dead if she doesn't jump on a hidden spot or everyone is so low that she can manfight them all.

I agree that her scaling is a problem which blink doesn't solve, but aghs or orchid don't solve it either. Aghs makes her tankier, but she's still paper even with aghs.

Waiting out spells is such a worse solution when you have a 7 second cd aoe 300 damage nuke.
low gravity, yes-yes!
Kreb
Profile Joined September 2010
4834 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-09 17:10:58
August 09 2016 17:03 GMT
#24045
If you really want out of the box item builds like that (which is questionable to begin with, but since we're talking about them...) I'd get force or glimmer (or eul, but thats not really an unusual item build) over blink always. It means you can save team mates too, it means you have a different way of protecting yourself against silences and roots which disables your innate blink (dagger wont save you from a 3sec CM frostbite for example, either of the three mentioned items might). And you can use all of them as escapes if you blink in -> scream, dagger, ult -> get into trouble. Either of those items can buy you the extra seconds to get blink up again, on top of other utility. Not to mention theres actually stats on those items, not on dagger.
Archeon
Profile Joined May 2011
3261 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-10 02:40:09
August 09 2016 22:41 GMT
#24046
Yeah force would definitely work for what I have in mind as well, but enemies have an easier time chasing and a larger window to stun. But I thought about force or pike as well.
low gravity, yes-yes!
doc_biceps
Profile Joined March 2016
Germany43 Posts
August 10 2016 12:45 GMT
#24047
On August 10 2016 07:41 Blackfeather wrote:
Yeah force would definitely work for what I have in mind as well, but enemies have an easier time chasing and a larger window to stun. But I thought about force or pike as well.



The stats arguments is pretty valid in my eyes. Force should make QoP stronger and even more Pike. I highly doubt Id chose it over Euls.
FFGenerations
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
7088 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-13 15:30:58
August 13 2016 15:30 GMT
#24048
blink on qop is good you can play her like puck then
force staff is retarded
Cool BW Music Vid - youtube.com/watch?v=W54nlqJ-Nx8 ~~~~~ ᕤ OYSTERS ᕤ CLAMS ᕤ AND ᕤ CUCKOLDS ᕤ ~~~~~~ ༼ ᕤ◕◡◕ ༽ᕤ PUNCH HIM ༼ ᕤ◕◡◕ ༽ᕤ
Birdie
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
New Zealand4438 Posts
August 15 2016 04:06 GMT
#24049
I'd take force over blink every time. I think I would build it every game against a riki, too. Force staff > riki in every situation ever.
Red classic | A butterfly dreamed he was Zhuangzi | 4.5k, heading to 5k as support!
nanaoei
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
3358 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-15 09:47:55
August 15 2016 08:49 GMT
#24050
On August 09 2016 09:06 HUMMAN wrote:
What's up with Armlet - Radi - Manta - Octarine - Shiva build on Alchemist, i find it kind of silly. Especially Shiva, i have never seen a game Alchemist winning with this build.


i don't know the deeper specifics, but it's just the boss-mode timing and when it all finishes coming together.
you prob have to fight right as radiance comes out (or rather, you should if it's ~13m fast)
and then at that point with BoTs and manta it's simply faster gold to farm lanes and jungle rather than kills or teamfights.
octarine makes sense with his kit, making him nearly unkillable with his ult having very little downtime, then it has synergy with the subsequent shivas.

you might normally think that damage items are much better, but professionals or high level players can take over the game using the radiance build and make it incredibly hard for the other team to be out on the map without ever walking past creeps or making it obvious.
armlet provides plenty of damage and health coupled with the low BAT (high level alch) and synergizes perfectly with alch's low armor and low overall stats (health) earlier into the game. later on, his ulti (the regen) completely nullifies the HP drain from armlet which when farming lets him do ancient stacks and roshan very nicely.
to elaborate on alchemist damage. you don't need much. he has negative armor from spray, radiance burn, and a natural steroid to take advantage of the raw damage from armlet as a str. hero. if you ever need any more damage than the naga build, you can just swap armlet to a major item, like abyssal or mjollnir.

shivas adds additional armor to the highground siege engine and debuffs the rest of the enemy team if they try to go on him (which they'll have to). i don't know the specifics as i haven't played alch for the last patch but the build should finish at 30m to 35m or less if you're off to a good start. it's not even that hard as long as you're not heavily contested in the jungle.

depending on the situation or the timing, i believe AC can be the better choice, especially for sieging.

at 30m, most other heroes are barely off the ground, working on their 2nd/3rd major item and at half the str of alchemist at that timing. you just need to meet a player who plays it right, sort of like a naga player.

if you just want to see it winning, there are quite a few pro games that get it done. of most recent memory, arteezy was playing it at starladder. his team was getting crushed. it is very scary in the right hands.

*@boesthius' FF7 nostalgia stream bomb* "we should work on a 'Final Progamer' fangame»whitera can be a protagonist---lastlie: "we save world and then defense it"
HUMMAN
Profile Joined July 2015
Turkey61 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-15 09:31:27
August 15 2016 09:29 GMT
#24051
Thanks for your answer. Also fast farm helps making ags easier for the team. Still with my noob mind, i observe it has a low winrate and instead shiva assault or lock down items abbsyal or even hex is better. What makes me obscure about the built is that it is build almost same in every game, i would like to see slight differences according to the pace of the game. For example there was an enemy winter wyvern and his cold embrace saved people a lot. In this situtation even dagon/ e blade would succeed better than shiva i guess. But who am i, just a trash player... So i believe pros know something like you explained to me.


My another question is about Broodmother. I started play her, I watch how pros play and mostly in early game i won my lane, keep an early orchid before 13-14 mininute mark. At this point, in order to give space to my team i farm enemy jungle and try to push middle and safelane towers of the enenmy. At this point mostly i feed and lose my momentum in the game, in midgame i think broodmother is pretty weak in team fights, especially i have to manage with my counters es, axe that i cant use my minions in fights. Any suggestions how to keep the game in these situations? My solo mmr is 3.8 k.
Hello!
Velzi
Profile Joined June 2012
Finland659 Posts
August 15 2016 10:24 GMT
#24052
use ur babies to farm aggressively and hero to farm safely, buy ur own wards if u dont get them from the support.

Also remember, at early midgame if u have won ur lane, u are so strong there is one or even two heroes who can kill u, so there should be space for ur team to farm and push if they commit 3 heroes just for u. Brood does require a lot from ur team aswell to abuse hero advantage they get if enemy focuses on brood.

Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you to their level and then beat you with experience. http://www.dotabuff.com/players/115305822 https://yasp.co/players/115305822
HUMMAN
Profile Joined July 2015
Turkey61 Posts
August 15 2016 12:50 GMT
#24053
Yeah i think even if i die farming enemy jungle my team can split and farm the space but mostly it ends up they come to fight with me instead farming, and chain deads occur after my death. At this point i think i lack communication.
Hello!
Baggage
Profile Joined October 2012
Hong Kong593 Posts
August 15 2016 13:51 GMT
#24054
Broods power peak is basically in the laning phase, her split push is actually fairly mediocre.

Past laning phase use broodlings to scout and farm enemy jungle. Also you need to learn when to join teamfights, its not an era of dota where you can just take occasional deaths for 1p4.

Check out bulldog for some newer school item builds, alternatively dagon or w.e is not bad. Basically the goal with brood is to hit a point where you solo kill 1 person defences.
[10:23pm] Gosi: I want to be famous and have many twitter followers and get blowjobs during tournements at the bathroom [10:23pm] Gosi: do i play mnid or support for thhat [10:23pm] Gosi: u tell me
Stu Pot
Profile Joined August 2016
Australia2 Posts
August 16 2016 06:37 GMT
#24055
Hey guys, short one;

I usually play carry at around 2.2k MMR and I find myself farming too much and not participating in team fights, however, when I do to choose to join the fight, I start falling behing in GPM and XPM.

Is it my teamfight ability or just not prioritising farm and teamplay correctly?
"Anything can work" - n0tail
nanaoei
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
3358 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-16 07:13:21
August 16 2016 07:06 GMT
#24056
hey stu, i could look at some quick replays of yours if you want, but i think generally most core players have run into this problem as they started out. some pros don't balance it as well as others can either.

in my opinion it has to do with reading the mood of the game and how much everyone is getting at any point in the game.
to keep it simple, i think the first thing to understand is if you need items/item advantage to carry the game.

some games, you cannot carry the game or fight 5v5 even if you have all the items you want because the enemy team can deal with you one way or another. as your signature notes however, anything can work.
so you just need to figure out what combination of levels/items lets you fight and continue to put the enemy cores behind.

farming despite the situation is bad habit as you've noticed because your hero is often going to be needed to influence some of the fights. i think this most, has to do with farming patterns and how you tend to move your heroes around the map. if you are dire safelane top and a fight breaks out bottom during an aggressive tower push by your teammates, resulting in a 4v4 or a 5v4, depending on how you read the mood of the game and the timing of things, you'll just need to sacrifice your team or use it as space. i should put it this way: if your team is still relevant if you sacrifice the fight which you may or may not influence in a good way, then you should probably do so.

you could be the difference, but your next major item could also be the difference that makes or breaks the overall game plan.

when you team-fight you should try to make sure it's when you are strong, or that you're guaranteed to get out of it alive and richer. this is why items like aquila, vlads, bottle, etc. are good on pos.1/2 because they will sustain you while you farm jungle, making you fight ready more often than not.
for tougher games, it's somewhat your job to hide your presence well and seem like a non-factor as this will further allow you to do what you want in terms of farming.

having low GPM and XPM is fine if the other team is low on all those fronts as well. you'll often notice that in pro games GPM is always quite low even across most pos 1 carries. this is because teamfights dictate the flow of the game.
if you kill them early, you take their tower, they can't farm safely and overall they get less farm for a portion of the game, netting you an small yet obvious advantage over several minutes.

so to answer your question to the best of my ability, do the fight if your teammates require, then make up for the time you wasted by not participating in the next fights. you need to catch up and progress at some point.
some of your teammates are going to be super antsy and want to fight all the time (tusk, etc.) they'll blame you for not being there, but that's fine. if they are playing those kinds of heroes, they themselves have responsibility to stay relevant in the game without relying on their pos. 1 to constantly gank deep with them. this means objectively, they should be smoking or ganking with their supports instead, or simply sitting in lane with you to counter aggression. there are plenty of ways to remain relevant without risking a feed over incomplete information or guesswork.

remember that a single hero kill is 1-2 creep waves typically, but a teamfight win, while surviving accelerates you several times more, and not strictly because of the gold, but also because of the momentum and how much it psychologically adds to the map as well.
*@boesthius' FF7 nostalgia stream bomb* "we should work on a 'Final Progamer' fangame»whitera can be a protagonist---lastlie: "we save world and then defense it"
zamBz
Profile Joined June 2016
Australia6 Posts
August 17 2016 07:11 GMT
#24057
As juggernaut, when should I go Manta vs Sange and Yasha?
GtC
Profile Joined August 2013
United States546 Posts
August 17 2016 07:48 GMT
#24058
Get manta when the dodge/dispel factor is useful. It also helps in long splitpush games. Having diffusal is another incentive for manta.
The Turtle Moves
Jaeger
Profile Joined December 2009
United States1150 Posts
August 18 2016 18:15 GMT
#24059
On August 17 2016 16:11 zamBz wrote:
As juggernaut, when should I go Manta vs Sange and Yasha?


I don't think it's that simple of an answer, would be better off asking in the jug thread.

My short answer would be the default is manta diffusal, go SNY whenever you can't go manta diffusal.
https://www.dotabuff.com/players/8137911
FFGenerations
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
7088 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-21 15:04:38
August 21 2016 15:04 GMT
#24060
my friend plays only necro mid
he wants to know how to play against an alc mid 1v1?
this is 2k mmr
Cool BW Music Vid - youtube.com/watch?v=W54nlqJ-Nx8 ~~~~~ ᕤ OYSTERS ᕤ CLAMS ᕤ AND ᕤ CUCKOLDS ᕤ ~~~~~~ ༼ ᕤ◕◡◕ ༽ᕤ PUNCH HIM ༼ ᕤ◕◡◕ ༽ᕤ
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