EPTEDIT: This was not worth first post on a new page...
[Hero] Legion Commander - Page 5
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Belisarius
Australia6226 Posts
EDIT: This was not worth first post on a new page... | ||
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NotYango
United States719 Posts
On December 20 2013 08:27 Nightmarjoo wrote: Admittedly it is the eventual/inevitable 1v5 part I'm struggling with; and yes shutting down her blink is pretty annoying. I'm hopeful that there are tactical/strategic/drafting solutions to these weaknesses though. Honestly, just pick a team that can 5-man an advantage in the range where she wants to be picking off people for Duel kills. Chen, Pugna, etc. any early push/teamfight hero. LC's early teamfight is actually quite weak in the level 7-10 range when she will basically have nothing but a Blink. She has 1 nuke which she doesn't really want to max, no disable outside of her ultimate which she can't use freely if she isn't sure about winning the Duel, and ultimately quite low teamfight contribution before she can get Duel stacks and items. She needs Blink to engage, but doesn't have any way to guarantee not dying on that engage before her first major defensive item. Pretty much the only way LC ever wins teamfights at that level is if she gets a Duel initiate on a key hero and their team is brain-dead does absolutely nothing to save them. She's a bit like SB in that she preys on the natural pub tendencies to spread out, farm, and do your own shit, but it also means a lot of the same principles to stopping her apply. On December 20 2013 08:20 Ravensong170 wrote: This. She is a versatile hero, that CAN carry, but isn't an AM or Luna or Gyro who can eventually 1 v 5 the enemy team. That isn't going to happen with her unless she gets 10+ duel kills before the 20 min mark (happened to me once :-D) . She is an adaptable hero that can disrupt a team, chase very well, and can disable certain heroes during teamfights. In a competitive scene she can most certainly fit into a draft. She simply needs to be with the right heroes, and given the ability to farm her early items. I would compare her to an ursa in the sense that she can be kited, has no escape, but if you get in melee range, the enemy will be very unhappy. That's a really poor comparison because Ursa's inherent fighting stats from his skills means he wins a man-fight against pretty much any hero at his strong levels even with a 2k gold investment in Blink. He also has burst damage, which is something that LC is woefully lacking in. She needs Duel stacks and additional items beyond Blink to be that strong. She needs more than just lockdown to set her up. | ||
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ChriS-X
Malaysia1374 Posts
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xSJx
Canada50 Posts
I tend to jungle her in solo queue. Say I have quelling blade/stout sheld/blink dagger at 9 minutes, does this scenario make either treads or phase a better choice? I'd argue that phase mobility isn't as useful if you have a blink dagger. | ||
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Nagvalk
South Africa220 Posts
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
As I said her ulti is a double edge sword. Essentially it disables her as well. Being in melee range means without bkb, you get 5v1 the moment you try to initiate. Outside of Ulti, she is no different from melee single target carries in that she gets kited eventually (wraith king high). Sven suffers from the same issue, but at least his stun is somewhat spammable and he has cleave. In competitive the only thing she offers is a bkb disabler that can jungle. Then it makes you wonder why you don't pick Doom/axe instead for that purpose. | ||
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Laserist
Turkey4269 Posts
Finally a BKB piercing, mute-like disable ulti which steals damage. Add she has 320 start move speed. I'll try to play her as 4-5 role more often. | ||
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idonthinksobro
3138 Posts
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Nightmarjoo
United States3360 Posts
I'm just skeptical about the notion that she can have a strong impact on game as a support prior to Blink in the midgame. I don't know if it's okay for her to just jungle for it instead of being with team during the crucial war for t1 towers period. | ||
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Kuzmorgo
Hungary1058 Posts
On December 20 2013 19:07 Laserist wrote: I begin to think she can be played like abaddon. Her debuff is stronger than shield(even can remove track), her heal and nuke is better without hurting herself. Her passive is stronger than abad's and synergies well with her ulti. Finally a BKB piercing, mute-like disable ulti which steals damage. Add she has 320 start move speed. I'll try to play her as 4-5 role more often. hmm, you do realize it that if you actually die under duel, you give dmg to the opponent? So if you play as a 4-5 position you basically give up using your ultimate as a disable, and would only use it when you are either 1) 100% certain that the opponent is out of position and your team can kill him. 2) right before he dies just to steal dmg. obviously out of the two, 1) is the more useful one. Also his passive is useless as a support. Aba at least buffs every teammate attacking the same target, while Legion's passive buffs only himself, which as a support is not really significant. Your other points are kinda valid, though their skillset is not completely comparable 1 on 1, but then again, very few two hero's are: 1) apothic shield is much better early game, if you are babysitting a farmer (on offlane for example), since it can actually damage enemies as well as protect your friend, or just mess up enemy lasthits while harassing them with it. 2) coil can also heal not just damage (and heal you as well when under borrowed time), giving aba another spell that protects his allies. All in all, you loose a lot of utility of your ulti, and your passive. For that reason I wouldn't play him as a support. | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
On December 20 2013 19:07 Laserist wrote: I begin to think she can be played like abaddon. Her debuff is stronger than shield(even can remove track), her heal and nuke is better without hurting herself. Her passive is stronger than abad's and synergies well with her ulti. Finally a BKB piercing, mute-like disable ulti which steals damage. Add she has 320 start move speed. I'll try to play her as 4-5 role more often. Shield can remove track as well if I recall correctly. Regardless, Abaddon is more suitable for this role because he has both offensive and defensive uses with his spells, whereas support LC would have to use PTA defensively mainly, and OO is an average nuke. | ||
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NotYango
United States719 Posts
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
Even then you're hopefully racking up +dmg and it's just going to sit there being under-utilized so that's less than good. | ||
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Ravensong170
United States858 Posts
On December 20 2013 09:20 NotYango wrote: That's a really poor comparison because Ursa's inherent fighting stats from his skills means he wins a man-fight against pretty much any hero at his strong levels even with a 2k gold investment in Blink. He also has burst damage, which is something that LC is woefully lacking in. She needs Duel stacks and additional items beyond Blink to be that strong. She needs more than just lockdown to set her up. Well yea but that's not what I was comparing between her and ursa, I was comparing her need for a blink and the ability to disrupt a teamfight and her early game immobility and duel ganks are still super strong to secure kills, but I've said earlier in the thread that she will not win a duel solo with another hero without support/the enemy being low. She is in CM in Dota1 (I believe) and can see her being picked in certain line-ups in pro scene when she is added to dota2. We'll see how the pros play her. | ||
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Laserist
Turkey4269 Posts
On December 21 2013 02:18 NotYango wrote: It's also not really fair to compare PtA and Aphotic Shield when Aphotic Shield has about half the CD of PtA. Well i think it is not common to be disabled in lane in very short intervals. | ||
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
what kind of legion commander are you if you can't even ride a horse!! ![[image loading]](http://i3.squidoocdn.com/resize/squidoo_images/-1/lens19063764_1326766870front.jpg) and the animation when ur dueling on top of a horse i mean hot damnn!!! that's awesome. now she's just on foot ;( | ||
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BurningSera
Ireland19621 Posts
The nuke is definitely a farming spell during or after mid game, I had serious mana problem even after i ferry mana pots since you are most certainly spending most your mana during jungling so it is defo not that useful <20mins (or even 30mins). | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On December 21 2013 21:38 BurningSera wrote: Played the first game of her in dota2, 7;30 dagger even when i faced a hellbear camp (i couldnt finish the camp rofl), so if i was given more luck on the neutral camp/MoC luck, i would have gotten the dagger earlier. So for pub play, I'd definitely recommend to play LC as a jungler. The nuke is definitely a farming spell during or after mid game, I had serious mana problem even after i ferry mana pots since you are most certainly spending most your mana during jungling so it is defo not that useful <20mins (or even 30mins). When I was jungling with her, I didn't have that much mana problems since I started with 0-2-3-1 skill build, and then 2-2-4-1. I tried with going jungle and maxing first spell, but I didn't have any success, couldn't really farm other camps because I didn't have regen and I couldn't kill big stacked camp fast enough. With 0-2-3 build you can do Ancients on lvl 5. Also, what do you guys think about starting items for Jungle? Quelling Blade, Stout Shield and set of Tangos? | ||
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CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2597 Posts
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
On December 22 2013 20:28 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote: Which support would you pick up with lc to roam? Im thinking lina should be fearsome for duel kills with lc. I think shadow demon would be amazing, distruption to lock down before LC gets blink and extra damage from illusions during duel and soul catcher to have LC decimate them with her autoattacks. | ||
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