EPTIf you care so much, take out AP from your gamemode preferences. You might even have a better time overall with the game.
[Hero] Legion Commander - Page 4
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Cervidaez
Spain31 Posts
If you care so much, take out AP from your gamemode preferences. You might even have a better time overall with the game. | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
On December 19 2013 23:23 Cervidaez wrote: It always happens when a new hero comes out. Anyway, she's pretty simplistic with a fun mechanic, so I guess she'll keep having a strong pick ratio even after this. If you care so much, take out AP from your gamemode preferences. You might even have a better time overall with the game. with 10 minute que times, no thx plus there is no AR etc in Ranked mode, and for some reason the non-ranked matchmaking isnt working for me, since the new patch | ||
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Cervidaez
Spain31 Posts
On December 19 2013 23:24 Geo.Rion wrote: with 10 minute que times, no thx I took out AP and I have pretty fast queue times (no longer than 3 minutes) in unraked EUW, not sure about ranked. | ||
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Ravensong170
United States858 Posts
On December 19 2013 22:58 Geo.Rion wrote: such a stupid hero, i wihsh they would just remove it. every single game there is an LC zzzzz Why is it a stupid hero? Are you saying she is broken? or OP? or do you just not like her? or just annoyed that she is picked all the time because she has been out for a week. By your vague statement you could make the case about pretty much any hero in dota..... personally she is completely balanced imo, and she is all I play in AP (so go ahead and blame me). There are plenty of ways to counter her, and she has her own weaknesses/limitations that can be taken advantage if you can play against her properly. she won't be picked much more since most people don't know how to play her. Her ability are pretty simply but she needs to be played intelligently. Eventually maybe it'll be primarily me picking her all day every day. So maybe you'll eventually just call me stupid and I should be removed from the game :-D | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
On December 19 2013 18:09 Nightmarjoo wrote: What's your justification for her being a bad safe laner? She lanes better than many carries due to having her heal/debuff and situationally some lane-bullying capacity with her high movement speed + passive procs. Provided you pick well she's very scary once she farms Blink, which can force the enemy team to group. If you're prepared for that with your picks it's hard for the enemy team to do anything about that. So relative to non-ganking carries she's good at ganking. Relative to ganking carries she's a good farmer. Relative to teamfight carries she's a good split-pusher. She's decent vs split pushers. She's situationally good in teamfights (albeit typically a little bad at them early). And she's the only carry that supports can directly help make stronger-- a support's dream come-true. When she's not dueling she's augmenting her capacity to duel; when she's not farming she's increasing her damage with duels to farm/fight better with. Her ult isn't autowin-- you definitely have to use it intelligently, but that doesn't mean it's bad. Situationally she's a good initiator, other times she's better as the follow-up to other initiation. She is just not worth being babysit by supports, because she is a bad carry. Heck she's not even a carry to begin with. Her skill set is all about ganking and not farming. She is probably a #2-3 role, but never a #1. Legion is also not a great solo mid. She has a normal nuke early on, and good regen. That's about it. The worst part is that you should only get 1 point OO for the MS, and max PTA and MOC first, but being in lane forces you to max OO first. It gimps your killing ability. She can solo sidelane though. But its hardly that impressive, and is very dependent on who she faces. | ||
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NotYango
United States719 Posts
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
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SheaR619
United States2399 Posts
On December 20 2013 05:17 Ravensong170 wrote: Why is it a stupid hero? Are you saying she is broken? or OP? or do you just not like her? or just annoyed that she is picked all the time because she has been out for a week. By your vague statement you could make the case about pretty much any hero in dota..... personally she is completely balanced imo, and she is all I play in AP (so go ahead and blame me). There are plenty of ways to counter her, and she has her own weaknesses/limitations that can be taken advantage if you can play against her properly. she won't be picked much more since most people don't know how to play her. Her ability are pretty simply but she needs to be played intelligently. Eventually maybe it'll be primarily me picking her all day every day. So maybe you'll eventually just call me stupid and I should be removed from the game :-D She pretty strong atm right next to earth spirit and we all know how retarded that hero is. She might even be stronger due to earth nerf last patch but hard to say. I think they are both insanely too strong. Legion can go on all lane and jungle and has strong carry potential. Im curious to hear how YOU would counter her because as far as I see, as long as she isnt stupid and just keep picking off weak hero and winning duels, she is going to snow ball out of control. She was basically built to snowball and the only way I see to some what deal with her is to 5 man fairly fairly early to not risk the chance of getting pick off to much to let LC snowball out of control. Honestly, you should NEVER lose a duel as legion commander. On December 20 2013 05:27 DucK- wrote: She is just not worth being babysit by supports, because she is a bad carry. Heck she's not even a carry to begin with. Her skill set is all about ganking and not farming. She is probably a #2-3 role, but never a #1. Legion is also not a great solo mid. She has a normal nuke early on, and good regen. That's about it. The worst part is that you should only get 1 point OO for the MS, and max PTA and MOC first, but being in lane forces you to max OO first. It gimps your killing ability. She can solo sidelane though. But its hardly that impressive, and is very dependent on who she faces. I disagree, I think she is fairly decent mid. She has a great way to clear creep and to grab rune. Also allows her to get lvl fast her ulti to start dueling and getting damage. She also has decent stats and decent last hitting power. You said it yourself, she is a ganking hero and the best thing for a ganking hero is to get lvl fast. | ||
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NotYango
United States719 Posts
Everything LC has to do to be passable mid (namely, leveling OO instead of PtA to Bottle-Crow AoE clear, and buying things like Bottle and Boots before her Blink) all just slow her down on doing the things she actually wants to do, which is max PtA + fast Blink Dagger. You have to spend 1-2k on items to lane (Bottle, Boots, sometimes upgraded Boots depending on lane) before you can save for Blink, and you have to level the skill that is least useful for your first few Blink ganks. She pretty strong atm right next to earth spirit and we all know how retarded that hero is. You're fucking joking right? Earth Spirit is the hero that high level pub players would insta-repick in DotA 1 because he's so OP that it's not fun to get wins with him. LC is the hero that high level pub players would groan at in DotA 1 because he has such little game impact if he doesn't snowball. | ||
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Nightmarjoo
United States3360 Posts
On December 20 2013 05:27 DucK- wrote: She is just not worth being babysit by supports, because she is a bad carry. Heck she's not even a carry to begin with. Her skill set is all about ganking and not farming. She is probably a #2-3 role, but never a #1. Legion is also not a great solo mid. She has a normal nuke early on, and good regen. That's about it. The worst part is that you should only get 1 point OO for the MS, and max PTA and MOC first, but being in lane forces you to max OO first. It gimps your killing ability. She can solo sidelane though. But its hardly that impressive, and is very dependent on who she faces. Definition of a carry: hero who scales with farm. Disruptor is not a carry because farming items on him doesn't increase his capacity to put out damage at a nonlinear rate. A Disruptor with dps items puts out the same damage as a Lich with damage items. By contrast when you give Legion items her passive alone enables her to put out more damage with the same items. This makes her a carry. You say her skill set is all about ganking, but that's not quite true. Her ult is her greatest asset and is best used by ganking, but even it doesn't require you to gank. You could run Legion as a farmer/pusher instead of a ganker if you chose, and used her kit for counter-ganks. Certainly her other skills all make her a decent farmer and pusher, which is why she's capable of jungling at all. Why would you want to run her as a farmer instead? Because they picked heroes or are playing in a manner that makes getting early Duel kills difficult. Obviously you'd rather gank with her because that opens up the possibility of snowballing to victory sooner, but you are in no way forced to. You are correct in saying she's not a great mid in most scenarios, because there's no single early item that lets her dominate teamfights, but nor are most carries, so that's irrelevant. I have no idea why you think she's forced to level her nuke in lane (unless you mean specifically the midlane, which I agree with). I think her mid skill build is maxing Q > E > W with a single point in W at 4, which is fine since she's getting good levels, and since W doesn't improve that much per level after 1. In the side lane her nuke isn't useful since she can't utilize it without disrupting creep equilibrium. The whole concept having her team come to her to set up Duel kills isn't really unusual for a carry. Rather I think what's notable is that the enemy will be hard-pressed to gank her with 1-2, forcing larger reactions by their team, making their intent obvious. Think about an Antimage being ganked, all he can do is try to Blink away. If his team shows up to help he can still only Blink away, or maybe secure a kill/cancel a TP with his ult, etc. If Legion is ganked she can attempt to fight the gankers provided she isn't chain stunned forever before her team can react. If that happens yes she'll still die, but so would any other carry with no support. If her team does show up before she dies they may be able to set up a Duel kill, which is great for her even if she has to go back to base-- but it's unlikely she'll need to given her innate capacity to sustain herself. This means that she can push with her team a bit to threaten some objective, which since it's too risky to respond to a Legion push with just one or two heroes means they have to rotate 3-4 (assuming one is still back/dead), which frees up the map for someone else on the team to pressure a different objective. If such a push can catch one out at any point it isn't just 250-300 gold and an easier push, it's that in addition to +10/14/18 bonus damage. If no one is caught out you still damage or kill a tower provided their antipush is not obscenely good. Even if it is good you may be able to win the teamfight if you can Duel their scariest disable/aoe hero. Even if you don't get the bonus damage a won teamfight + tower kill is still good. The whole point is that Legion opens up opportunities for your team that other carries don't, even if they farm faster. She's not perfect-- she doesn't open up every opportunity-- certainly a Luna opens up much better teamfight opportunities than she does, but relative to a Luna she can more safely push a lane alone due to her strong sustaining kit. Even if she's not getting Duel damage she can be useful if used well just as a disable in teamfights as long as she doesn't die, and her kit is optimal for keeping her alive. Won-team-fights give gold and open up farming/Roshan opportunities that help make her stronger which help secure Duel damage later on. Relative to other carries she can always fight something on the map (though it may require a creep wave to tank for passive procs). Using her just requires being smart with her abilities and item builds. A Legion successfully snowballing off Duel damage will probably build a different way than a Legion who hasn't had the opportunity to win Duels, but that doesn't mean the latter is useless. The draft definitely matters as well-- you can't just pick her any time and expect her to perform well, which is of course true for all other carries, but that with smart play her kit should still open up opportunities for the team to get ahead even in a draft that is disadvantageous for her. | ||
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NotYango
United States719 Posts
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synapse
China13814 Posts
LC counters brood so fucking hard LOL | ||
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Nightmarjoo
United States3360 Posts
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NotYango
United States719 Posts
Ancients with 4-1-4 isn't really feasible because even if it's sustainable, it's far too slow. PtA max actually is more reasonable for Ancient clearing. | ||
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Nightmarjoo
United States3360 Posts
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NotYango
United States719 Posts
On December 20 2013 07:16 Nightmarjoo wrote: I'm not prioritizing the buff last, I prioritize it second, even as a laner. That's not what you said: I think her mid skill build is maxing Q > E > W with a single point in W at 4 | ||
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Nightmarjoo
United States3360 Posts
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Ravensong170
United States858 Posts
Apply pressure early, yea she can regen in the lane and all that, be you are mainly focusing on denying her last hits. If she is jungling, then ward the jungle camps, and periodically roam supports. In a well balanced team, she isn't the hero that you look to shut down though, or she shouldn't be. There should always be a stronger carry or a more tempo controlling her on the team. She's more of a backbone core hero that provides solid damage, regen, and can dispel debuffs. LC is most likely not the primary reason a team will win a game. I've had plenty of games where I have been fed 300+ damage on LC and still the lost the game because the other team simply worked better together, or had split push. She is a single target melee damage dealer. Kite her, shut down her blink. Imagine she is like ursa, strong, but when played against correctly, completely manageable. Like radiance specter. Fast way to annoy the shit/shut down an Lc's blink potential. | ||
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Ravensong170
United States858 Posts
This. She is a versatile hero, that CAN carry, but isn't an AM or Luna or Gyro who can eventually 1 v 5 the enemy team. That isn't going to happen with her unless she gets 10+ duel kills before the 20 min mark (happened to me once :-D) . She is an adaptable hero that can disrupt a team, chase very well, and can disable certain heroes during teamfights. In a competitive scene she can most certainly fit into a draft. She simply needs to be with the right heroes, and given the ability to farm her early items. I would compare her to an ursa in the sense that she can be kited, has no escape, but if you get in melee range, the enemy will be very unhappy. | ||
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Nightmarjoo
United States3360 Posts
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