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United States47024 Posts
On December 07 2014 14:36 Ryder. wrote:
Eh how is it a buff? You could already use maelstrom/mjollnir as well as deso pre-change, I feel like disabling stuff like PA evasion for 4 seconds or void's passives was sick good, and much better than being able to use lifesteal/basher/evasion. Though blademail vs PA post change sounds pretty hilarious.
It never disabled Backtrack. Only Doom's Doom disabled Backtrack. It did disable Time Lock though, which is still a big deal.
Basically anything not on the list of "hard-coded ladder Doom" disables I listed above applied only to Doom's Doom and not Duel.
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Before the nerf duel was anti carry spell now you need to actually chose the spots more carefully and late game you can still kill any carry in duel but id you have a nice dmg stacked.
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On December 07 2014 14:36 Ryder. wrote:
Eh how is it a buff? You could already use maelstrom/mjollnir as well as deso pre-change, I feel like disabling stuff like PA evasion for 4 seconds or void's passives was sick good, and much better than being able to use lifesteal/basher/evasion. Though blademail vs PA post change sounds pretty hilarious.
@paper why do you get MKB in so many games on her? Are you just vsing that many PAs? Doesn't really give any attack speed or survivability and crit seems like it would be better for damage..
Edit: Even disabling bashers, crits, evasion etc from items for both heroes pre-change I feel like was sick good, cause you would itemize around it (by avoiding those kinds of items), then go you and duel their carry and it essentially made their daedalus/basher/butterfly close to worthless.
It's a buff in the offensive sense. It makes LC much more stronger as a snowball hero because it forces heroes to manfight her when she has an item advantage and she can just murder them badly.
Deso did not work pre-change it only worked if you hit first and then Dueled.
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United States47024 Posts
On December 08 2014 02:21 superstartran wrote:
Deso did not work pre-change it only worked if you hit first and then Dueled.
Doom/Duel never disabled Deso. Orb of Corruption is one of the exceptions to Orbs being disabled by Doom. At least as of mid-late last year, this interaction was consistent between DotA 1 and DotA 2, so while it's possible that Valve broke this interaction in 6.80/6.81, I don't remember that being the case.
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On December 08 2014 02:21 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2014 14:36 Ryder. wrote:
Eh how is it a buff? You could already use maelstrom/mjollnir as well as deso pre-change, I feel like disabling stuff like PA evasion for 4 seconds or void's passives was sick good, and much better than being able to use lifesteal/basher/evasion. Though blademail vs PA post change sounds pretty hilarious.
@paper why do you get MKB in so many games on her? Are you just vsing that many PAs? Doesn't really give any attack speed or survivability and crit seems like it would be better for damage..
Edit: Even disabling bashers, crits, evasion etc from items for both heroes pre-change I feel like was sick good, cause you would itemize around it (by avoiding those kinds of items), then go you and duel their carry and it essentially made their daedalus/basher/butterfly close to worthless. It's a buff in the offensive sense. It makes LC much more stronger as a snowball hero because it forces heroes to manfight her when she has an item advantage and she can just murder them badly. Deso did not work pre-change it only worked if you hit first and then Dueled.
What? That makes no sense, why does it only force heroes to man fight her post-change? 'Forcing heroes to man fight her' is what duel always did in the most literal sense, and it doesn't explain why allowing enemies to crit/bash/evade you is somehow better for LC (outside of blademail if you manage to duel them before they BKB). Now you actually need to be careful when you duel enemy carries cause it can back fire so hard if you are not careful.
It's not like its really changed LCs itemization anyway, people still tend to build blink/bkb/blademail/AC/mjollnir most of the time.
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On December 08 2014 17:44 Ryder. wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2014 02:21 superstartran wrote:On December 07 2014 14:36 Ryder. wrote:
Eh how is it a buff? You could already use maelstrom/mjollnir as well as deso pre-change, I feel like disabling stuff like PA evasion for 4 seconds or void's passives was sick good, and much better than being able to use lifesteal/basher/evasion. Though blademail vs PA post change sounds pretty hilarious.
@paper why do you get MKB in so many games on her? Are you just vsing that many PAs? Doesn't really give any attack speed or survivability and crit seems like it would be better for damage..
Edit: Even disabling bashers, crits, evasion etc from items for both heroes pre-change I feel like was sick good, cause you would itemize around it (by avoiding those kinds of items), then go you and duel their carry and it essentially made their daedalus/basher/butterfly close to worthless. It's a buff in the offensive sense. It makes LC much more stronger as a snowball hero because it forces heroes to manfight her when she has an item advantage and she can just murder them badly. Deso did not work pre-change it only worked if you hit first and then Dueled. What? That makes no sense, why does it only force heroes to man fight her post-change? 'Forcing heroes to man fight her' is what duel always did in the most literal sense, and it doesn't explain why allowing enemies to crit/bash/evade you is somehow better for LC (outside of blademail if you manage to duel them before they BKB). Now you actually need to be careful when you duel enemy carries cause it can back fire so hard if you are not careful. It's not like its really changed LCs itemization anyway, people still tend to build blink/bkb/blademail/AC/mjollnir most of the time.
Yeah but before since you couldn't really snowball and kill people fast it was actually not as easy to snowball as it is now. With a Mjoll/Daedalus after Blink Dagger you can pretty much just instantly assassinate a hero as long as you get a crit off. There's plenty of different hilarious ways to play the hero, and with the new changes to duel you can do some seriously funny stuff.
On December 08 2014 03:47 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2014 02:21 superstartran wrote:
Deso did not work pre-change it only worked if you hit first and then Dueled. Doom/Duel never disabled Deso. Orb of Corruption is one of the exceptions to Orbs being disabled by Doom. At least as of mid-late last year, this interaction was consistent between DotA 1 and DotA 2, so while it's possible that Valve broke this interaction in 6.80/6.81, I don't remember that being the case.
When they first ported LC I remember desolater actually not working how it should have. Like for example Feast from Lifestealer shouldn't have been disabled, but it was in Dota 2. Lot of weird shit that should have been muted/not muted.
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United States47024 Posts
Mjoll was always bugged to work during Duel, even though it shouldn't. It was a long-standing bug that applied to Doom as well and happened to carry over to Duel when they released LC (and it never got fixed before the 6.82 changes). Amusingly enough, Agha Doom STILL fails to disable Mael/Mjoll.
On December 09 2014 10:31 superstartran wrote:
When they first ported LC I remember desolater actually not working how it should have. Like for example Feast from Lifestealer shouldn't have been disabled, but it was in Dota 2. Lot of weird shit that should have been muted/not muted.
Yeah but they fixed a lot of them pretty quickly. Other than Mjoll which I mentioned above, most stuff worked the way it should have by the time the change was made.
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Most important part of the new patch: LC's hair color confirmed.
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I've been going offlane LC and rushing soul ring to get cs+harras carry. Out of the 8 games I've only lost to sniper 2 times. How the heck you deal with that hero? Shrapnel stops you from getting cs with your speed from Q so easily it's laughable...
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How will Legion's build change with Silver Edge? It's a lot more damage to use for duels, plus it disables passives.
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I think probably just treads into shadowblade into silver edge with an armlet or mael in there if you need to have better stats or want to farm faster. Although, I'd probably still go blink in some circumstances. If you do pick up a silver edge, it'll make buying an MKB vs something like a PA much less important, although you probably(?) still want to pick it up at some point.
Although I'm looking at this from the perspective of a mid/safelane LC rather than an offlane LC.
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Nothing changed with silver edge. You still get it the same reasons why you want shadow blade prior. That means you better have a good reason why you are skipping blink.
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You better have a good early game if you plan on getting silver edge in a reasonable time.
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Sadly Silver edge is priority number one not only on LC but heroes like slark who farm faster and you again become useless in most of the cases if you are not snowballing from mid or safelane.
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On April 30 2015 15:06 SatsuinoHado wrote:
Sadly Silver edge is priority number one not only on LC but heroes like slark who farm faster and you again become useless in most of the cases if you are not snowballing from mid or safelane.
It's been awhile since I've played LC since she fell out of the meta pretty hard recently, but I think she still farms at a decent pace, and shes a hero that can retreat to the jungle pretty early on without needing some form of lifesteal.
But LC is one of those heroes where I think you don't want to try to retard rice on her anyway, you want to be moving around the map securing duels and getting kills with your team, and only falling back to farm when you need to. Shes a very aggressive carry, much like Sven or Tiny.
So I think just getting like treads and a shadow blade and having heroes like Lion or AA that can help secure early duels is enough to get a silver edge, and from there just acting aggressive and controlling the map is fine.
Im really looking forward to LC being relevant again hopefully, but I feel really disappointed by her aghs upgrade. I think it would only be relevant early game when you can't really finish a duel by yourself, but mid-game it seems like it would drop off heavily unless you're extremely underfarmed. Just got to wait and see until 6.84 hits live to see how LC turns out.
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On April 30 2015 21:34 OrionTEK wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2015 15:06 SatsuinoHado wrote:
Sadly Silver edge is priority number one not only on LC but heroes like slark who farm faster and you again become useless in most of the cases if you are not snowballing from mid or safelane. It's been awhile since I've played LC since she fell out of the meta pretty hard recently, but I think she still farms at a decent pace, and shes a hero that can retreat to the jungle pretty early on without needing some form of lifesteal. But LC is one of those heroes where I think you don't want to try to retard rice on her anyway, you want to be moving around the map securing duels and getting kills with your team, and only falling back to farm when you need to. Shes a very aggressive carry, much like Sven or Tiny. So I think just getting like treads and a shadow blade and having heroes like Lion or AA that can help secure early duels is enough to get a silver edge, and from there just acting aggressive and controlling the map is fine. Im really looking forward to LC being relevant again hopefully, but I feel really disappointed by her aghs upgrade. I think it would only be relevant early game when you can't really finish a duel by yourself, but mid-game it seems like it would drop off heavily unless you're extremely underfarmed. Just got to wait and see until 6.84 hits live to see how LC turns out.
I still play her all the time. I already tried on the test server with silvers edge and its really great. Sadly with SE you need 100% something for mana like bottle or soul ring because if you want to be active you cant sustain that kind of mana. And with the new +10% bounty on kills and the nerf on so many of the arch nemesis heroes like troll I will be more than happy from the patch. However aghs is useless as shit I bet she will get some kind of buff like semi mute on the passives or smt with that aghs later on the patches if Icefrog wants this item to be even remotely relevant for her as for now all your money are spend early for exact items that are needed to be efficient.
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I can see the use of Aghs. 4 team mates with Etheral Blade and Eul's Sceptre. Permanent stun since nobody is doing damage. Ultimate trolling item.
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— Base damage increased by 4
— Overwhelming Odds cooldown reduced from 18 to 15
— Press The Attack cast time reduced from 0.3 to 0.2
— Fixed Legion Commander sometimes auto-attacking nearby units after Duel ends instead of continuing to attack the dueled target
• The PtA change is pretty big because prepping for duels pre-blink by using as many relevant actives as possible (PtA/BM/Mjol/BKB) was a little hard. I still usually just PTA/BM though.
• SB/SE is awful because (1) the burden is on you to avoid potentially sentried areas and (2) you can't prep your actives for duels. Smoking & PTA/BM/blink will delete their 1 position from the game with no warning.
• 320 ms + OO ms with a value point in MoC @ level 2 is like a guaranteed first blood on idiots who think they can trade.
• This hero is gonna be big guys!!!!!!1
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whenever i pick lc for offlane, i always end up wondering why i didnt pick beastmaster
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EPT![[image loading]](https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xat1/t31.0-8/12017550_1022056841172799_9161924252069435507_o.jpg)
