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On February 14 2014 18:28 holyhalo5 wrote:
I've always wanted to try Armlet Terrorblade. Anyone have success with it?
Could be cool for sunder ganks but very risky and probably not worth it, Manta is just too good on TB and once you get that you will be really hard to kill at that point. That is my experience anyway.
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On February 14 2014 20:19 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2014 09:53 Noya wrote:
QB is core, yes. After Treads+Yasha and lvl 4 Conjure Image, you have around 100 base damage, which means illusions get 100*0.60*0.32 = ~20 damage from a 225g item. The difference is huge, and its very easy to lasthit in lane while jungling with the main hero. Your illusions don't get a percentage of your damage anymore, they get a percentage of the illusions damage. Still good, but not 20 damage that early good I think?
His calculation is correct, it did account for the illusion damage. That's what the *0.60 is calculating.
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TB seems to be VERY strong once he hits lvl 3. Pretty amazing how you can just have pms and treads and just rip apart people, there's really no way to go toe to toe with him it seems past that mark whenever Meta is up. I've yet to encounter a longlane hero that was solo able to do jack squat against me on TB and my buddy on any support. Is there a hero that can actually pressure the TB solo and stop freefarm? Because with decent freefarm tb just gets ridiculous past minute 16 when he gets manta and he can start 1v3ing.
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On February 15 2014 05:44 Varth wrote:
Is there a hero that can actually pressure the TB solo and stop freefarm?
I think Dark Seer could pose a threat for TB, keeping his HP low while being able to escape from his slow.
Lich is also very strong since his nuking potential gets extreme if he is soloing.
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Phoenix totally shits on TB. Well timed set of spirits will almost kill him, and unless he's paired with a Disruptor, his chances of killing you are miniscule. I also like WR, but you have to be good at timing powershot with his lasthitting.
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Because of the strengths of metamorphosis in the early mid game, its little relative relevance late game except to turn you into ranged hero, and conjure's non existent early game., I prefer to build my TB around metamorphosis. It is for the same reason that I do no like radiance on him. My reasoning is why focus so much on farming up to your late game, when you can start dominating from early to mid game.
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The starting 500hp isnt that much, 2 nukes and he willl be below 50% hp. His name is meleesnipers and he seems easy gankable becuz non-hoof hero
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On February 15 2014 16:40 DucK- wrote:
Because of the strengths of metamorphosis in the early mid game, its little relative relevance late game except to turn you into ranged hero, and conjure's non existent early game., I prefer to build my TB around metamorphosis. It is for the same reason that I do no like radiance on him. My reasoning is why focus so much on farming up to your late game, when you can start dominating from early to mid game.
Metamorphosis adds 220 damage if you have two illusions up and Manta Style as well, that's pretty sick 15-20 minutes into the game. However, Terrorblade is still really squishy and building a BKB does not help your illusions survive. I think you need to consider the particular game very carefully before deciding what style of play to adapt.
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On February 15 2014 22:22 ZerG~LegenD wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2014 16:40 DucK- wrote:
Because of the strengths of metamorphosis in the early mid game, its little relative relevance late game except to turn you into ranged hero, and conjure's non existent early game., I prefer to build my TB around metamorphosis. It is for the same reason that I do no like radiance on him. My reasoning is why focus so much on farming up to your late game, when you can start dominating from early to mid game. Metamorphosis adds 220 damage if you have two illusions up and Manta Style as well, that's pretty sick 15-20 minutes into the game. However, Terrorblade is still really squishy and building a BKB does not help your illusions survive. I think you need to consider the particular game very carefully before deciding what style of play to adapt.
Doesn't meta affect only your main hero? I don't recall illusions benefitting from +damage.
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On February 15 2014 22:40 DucK- wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2014 22:22 ZerG~LegenD wrote:On February 15 2014 16:40 DucK- wrote:
Because of the strengths of metamorphosis in the early mid game, its little relative relevance late game except to turn you into ranged hero, and conjure's non existent early game., I prefer to build my TB around metamorphosis. It is for the same reason that I do no like radiance on him. My reasoning is why focus so much on farming up to your late game, when you can start dominating from early to mid game. Metamorphosis adds 220 damage if you have two illusions up and Manta Style as well, that's pretty sick 15-20 minutes into the game. However, Terrorblade is still really squishy and building a BKB does not help your illusions survive. I think you need to consider the particular game very carefully before deciding what style of play to adapt. Doesn't meta affect only your main hero? I don't recall illusions benefitting from +damage.
Meta adds base damage for this reason
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On February 15 2014 22:57 Nevuk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2014 22:40 DucK- wrote:On February 15 2014 22:22 ZerG~LegenD wrote:On February 15 2014 16:40 DucK- wrote:
Because of the strengths of metamorphosis in the early mid game, its little relative relevance late game except to turn you into ranged hero, and conjure's non existent early game., I prefer to build my TB around metamorphosis. It is for the same reason that I do no like radiance on him. My reasoning is why focus so much on farming up to your late game, when you can start dominating from early to mid game. Metamorphosis adds 220 damage if you have two illusions up and Manta Style as well, that's pretty sick 15-20 minutes into the game. However, Terrorblade is still really squishy and building a BKB does not help your illusions survive. I think you need to consider the particular game very carefully before deciding what style of play to adapt. Doesn't meta affect only your main hero? I don't recall illusions benefitting from +damage. Meta adds base damage for this reason
Ah I see. No wonder conjure illusions do hurt too. It still doesn't change my approach though. I'd still rather abuse metamorphosis than do some radiance shenanigans.
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I've been getting a Hex a lot as a 5th or 6th item on this hero. It feels situationally really good, if the enemy carry is down to a low BKB you can just crush them. However, I don't think TB has any particular synergy with the item. I haven't played much carry in the past (I love this hero though), but I feel like Hex is an undervalued item on carries in general, yet you almost never see it. Or maybe my friends being so fucking awful at disabling the right hero at the right time makes me overvalue it.
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On February 16 2014 05:14 ZerG~LegenD wrote:
I've been getting a Hex a lot as a 5th or 6th item on this hero. It feels situationally really good, if the enemy carry is down to a low BKB you can just crush them. However, I don't think TB has any particular synergy with the item. I haven't played much carry in the past (I love this hero though), but I feel like Hex is an undervalued item on carries in general, you almost never see it. Or maybe my friends being so fucking awful at the disabling the right hero at the right time makes me overvalue it.
Don't fret about it. Hex is legit on any carry hero
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On February 10 2014 23:02 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2014 21:49 DougJDempsey wrote:On February 07 2014 22:15 lolfail9001 wrote:On February 07 2014 16:39 Tobberoth wrote:On February 07 2014 10:46 DougJDempsey wrote:On February 01 2014 15:23 lolfail9001 wrote:On February 01 2014 14:15 idonthinksobro wrote:On February 01 2014 13:35 Zealos wrote:
I think SnY into small crit then Bfly/Skadi/Maybe Lifesteal then finishing your crit into heart.
I have to disagree with people who think this guy isnt lategame, he is absurdly strong late.
EDIT: And slot in BKB where appropriate Yes he is strong lategame but he is also strong really early in the game peaking around lvl 7 when you have 4 in metamorphosis. If you simply start gaming when you have a manta there are not many heros that will stand a chance unless they have a lot of nukes or a lot of stuns in that case you need a bkb too. This pretty much. He is kind of like luna-gyro decent early game (aka can secure kills in early game), good mid game (due to conjure image+meta giving him dmg level of full agi morph and drow) and seriously strong lategame (due to having almost all of his stuff scale with items and levels including opponents ones). All of the rest is pretty true but his late game is his greatest weakness to be honest. His peak comes when its midgame and he is on level items with enemy carry but has metamorph and manta and four illusions total. Late game he pretty much cant fight as long as metamorph is down unless he has a huge item advantage. Too over reliant on metamorph so he cant be kited around, and melee illusions are largely useless as you dont have blink like say, AM to crowd around someone and eat all his mana, and just ends up blocking the way for your main hero most of the time. I don't know, I think it depends on what you're up against. It's true that you can only fight with meta is up, then again, if you use it on cooldown, you have it up more than 30% of the time, it's usually not hard to time it so that fights happens as it comes off cooldown, then farm until it's up again. Also, I just feel like while some hard carries can outcarry him in a 1v1, TB just makes teamfights hell for opponents since his illusions do so much damage (and if you have good items, tank a lot). The fact that you can enter a fight with 3 illusions and then keep spawning illusions as it happens is so strong, reflection shuts down melee carries pretty hard for 5 seconds as long as people know how to kite (and obviously, does massive damage on enemy carries, regardless of your own farm). It all comes down to meta being up, but I think a six slot TB with meta up is a bigger deal in teamfights lategame than most other carries, especially if he has good micro (a single meta illusion on a support will probably force the support to run away from the fight) and gets a nice sunder use off. six slot tb actually outcarries almost all carries. Perhaps void can lock him out and kill during 6 seconds of chrono (though i have problems imagining void doing enough dps to cut though 3,7k HP with 30+ armor in 6 seconds before sunder, wil probably require focus fire of whole team), or dusa can try to get rid of illusions with split shot (DR is a must then lol), or 7 slotted spectre killing 3 of tb's teammates. Volvo rightfully gave him 3 stars :D. The problem is a truely close late game most of the time if you spend meta on a fight away from their base, win the fight(if you lose the fight obviously you are pretty much done), go to their base, it wears off and they buyback and you are pretty much useless as well unless its a melee carry who lets you reflection on him and go to town on him. Not to mention if opponents have a dual/tri core that can fight at any point and you are a hero who can only fight effectively with your spell up its not hard to see which way the wind is blowing ._. Also medusa's ultimate automatically kills illusions, dont need rapier + split for that. But ultimately after going 17-1 on TB over past 2-3 days, i find that if opponents are the right composition you probably have to get bkb first/second/third item depending on how hard they counter you... Which is pretty terrible for a illusion hero. Illusion hero? TB is only illusion carry if you want to go with that route. He can be straight up melee/ranged single target right clicker with pure damage items and bkb if there is someone to turn his stats against him (dark seer being worst example). His midgame is good enough to afford to buy bkb (let's be honest, bkb is suboptimal on luna too, even ethereal is better if there is no need for bkb, but it is a must because well, you kinda want to do that damage). Melee carry that can just ignore opposition and go straight for rax/throne since his dps and tankiness (6 slot tb, mind you) allows him to ignore most of cores in lategame while destroying your base at speeds of lycan. Or even better, go farm for buyback and just send you 400+ dps illusions do the job. Medusa killing illusions means that for some strange reason you decided you are as manly as Leoric and decided to face dusa during her ult (all 5 of you).
Are you seriously arguing that illusions was not a factor in the balancing of TB? And its a optional illusion hero? Yes, he can, but i CAN go anti mage with blink dagger and force staff too. Its obviously the most optimal way to play TB for the same reason you wouldnt play naga without mirror image or full stats PL. You CAN but why the hell would you want to.
And as for medusa killing illusions, wtf. So you can choose when or not to fight medusa(youll have to fight her at SOME point anyway), but she cant save her ultimate till you finally wish to fight her? i didnt know medusa had a built-in retard mode feature. So just let her kill rax, kill towers, kill throne because you dont want to face medusa during her ulti?
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On February 16 2014 17:23 DougJDempsey wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2014 23:02 lolfail9001 wrote:On February 10 2014 21:49 DougJDempsey wrote:On February 07 2014 22:15 lolfail9001 wrote:On February 07 2014 16:39 Tobberoth wrote:On February 07 2014 10:46 DougJDempsey wrote:On February 01 2014 15:23 lolfail9001 wrote:On February 01 2014 14:15 idonthinksobro wrote:On February 01 2014 13:35 Zealos wrote:
I think SnY into small crit then Bfly/Skadi/Maybe Lifesteal then finishing your crit into heart.
I have to disagree with people who think this guy isnt lategame, he is absurdly strong late.
EDIT: And slot in BKB where appropriate Yes he is strong lategame but he is also strong really early in the game peaking around lvl 7 when you have 4 in metamorphosis. If you simply start gaming when you have a manta there are not many heros that will stand a chance unless they have a lot of nukes or a lot of stuns in that case you need a bkb too. This pretty much. He is kind of like luna-gyro decent early game (aka can secure kills in early game), good mid game (due to conjure image+meta giving him dmg level of full agi morph and drow) and seriously strong lategame (due to having almost all of his stuff scale with items and levels including opponents ones). All of the rest is pretty true but his late game is his greatest weakness to be honest. His peak comes when its midgame and he is on level items with enemy carry but has metamorph and manta and four illusions total. Late game he pretty much cant fight as long as metamorph is down unless he has a huge item advantage. Too over reliant on metamorph so he cant be kited around, and melee illusions are largely useless as you dont have blink like say, AM to crowd around someone and eat all his mana, and just ends up blocking the way for your main hero most of the time. I don't know, I think it depends on what you're up against. It's true that you can only fight with meta is up, then again, if you use it on cooldown, you have it up more than 30% of the time, it's usually not hard to time it so that fights happens as it comes off cooldown, then farm until it's up again. Also, I just feel like while some hard carries can outcarry him in a 1v1, TB just makes teamfights hell for opponents since his illusions do so much damage (and if you have good items, tank a lot). The fact that you can enter a fight with 3 illusions and then keep spawning illusions as it happens is so strong, reflection shuts down melee carries pretty hard for 5 seconds as long as people know how to kite (and obviously, does massive damage on enemy carries, regardless of your own farm). It all comes down to meta being up, but I think a six slot TB with meta up is a bigger deal in teamfights lategame than most other carries, especially if he has good micro (a single meta illusion on a support will probably force the support to run away from the fight) and gets a nice sunder use off. six slot tb actually outcarries almost all carries. Perhaps void can lock him out and kill during 6 seconds of chrono (though i have problems imagining void doing enough dps to cut though 3,7k HP with 30+ armor in 6 seconds before sunder, wil probably require focus fire of whole team), or dusa can try to get rid of illusions with split shot (DR is a must then lol), or 7 slotted spectre killing 3 of tb's teammates. Volvo rightfully gave him 3 stars :D. The problem is a truely close late game most of the time if you spend meta on a fight away from their base, win the fight(if you lose the fight obviously you are pretty much done), go to their base, it wears off and they buyback and you are pretty much useless as well unless its a melee carry who lets you reflection on him and go to town on him. Not to mention if opponents have a dual/tri core that can fight at any point and you are a hero who can only fight effectively with your spell up its not hard to see which way the wind is blowing ._. Also medusa's ultimate automatically kills illusions, dont need rapier + split for that. But ultimately after going 17-1 on TB over past 2-3 days, i find that if opponents are the right composition you probably have to get bkb first/second/third item depending on how hard they counter you... Which is pretty terrible for a illusion hero. Illusion hero? TB is only illusion carry if you want to go with that route. He can be straight up melee/ranged single target right clicker with pure damage items and bkb if there is someone to turn his stats against him (dark seer being worst example). His midgame is good enough to afford to buy bkb (let's be honest, bkb is suboptimal on luna too, even ethereal is better if there is no need for bkb, but it is a must because well, you kinda want to do that damage). Melee carry that can just ignore opposition and go straight for rax/throne since his dps and tankiness (6 slot tb, mind you) allows him to ignore most of cores in lategame while destroying your base at speeds of lycan. Or even better, go farm for buyback and just send you 400+ dps illusions do the job. Medusa killing illusions means that for some strange reason you decided you are as manly as Leoric and decided to face dusa during her ult (all 5 of you). Are you seriously arguing that illusions was not a factor in the balancing of TB? And its a optional illusion hero? Yes, he can, but i CAN go anti mage with blink dagger and force staff too. Its obviously the most optimal way to play TB for the same reason you wouldnt play naga without mirror image or full stats PL. You CAN but why the hell would you want to. And as for medusa killing illusions, wtf. So you can choose when or not to fight medusa(youll have to fight her at SOME point anyway), but she cant save her ultimate till you finally wish to fight her? i didnt know medusa had a built-in retard mode feature. So just let her kill rax, kill towers, kill throne because you dont want to face medusa during her ulti?
I don't think his point is to skip illusions. He is just saying that there is no need to build totally around it. You do not need to specifically get stat items to boost illusions, or Heart/Radiance for that matter. Meta is so strong that you can build TB around it too. You can opt to build TB as a normal right click hero, and considering that you will end up with Bfly/Manta as well, your illusions are still going to hurt alot. You just don't need to play TB with the mindset that you must buff his illusions as much as possible.
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I love Terrorblade. So strong in a tri or even dual lane granted the enemy doesn't have too many nukers against you. Whenever your team creates space you easily take down a tower or two.
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you get radiance on him because it allows you to farm 2lanes and the jungle at the same time
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On February 17 2014 06:08 Erasme wrote:
you get radiance on him because it allows you to farm 2lanes and the jungle at the same time
Which I accept that it makes you into something like naga, albeit less effective in doing so. My only issue is that going for radiance means you are not abusing the strength of meta/tb in the early mid game. It is the similar to acid greed Alch. You have a skill that is so OP early mid game, but you choose to forgo abusing it in favour of a farming route.
While it is definitely not as terrible as the Alch example, it is still IMO not the best way to play TB.
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I dont understand how this hero is not dominating pub games more (he's at 49% according to dotabuff). He has felt so incredibly strong so far when I played him, so far i'm 6-0 and i feel that even if my laning stage is not great i can do so much around level 10-11
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On February 18 2014 17:42 Jetaap wrote:
I dont understand how this hero is not dominating pub games more (he's at 49% according to dotabuff). He has felt so incredibly strong so far when I played him, so far i'm 6-0 and i feel that even if my laning stage is not great i can do so much around level 10-11
More often than not I find it due to them being focused on trying to rat with him, rather than just man up tower push in mid game by abusing Meta. Also most of them skip BKB.
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EPT
