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On February 21 2014 23:00 ChunderBoy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2014 22:25 Noya wrote:On February 21 2014 20:12 ChunderBoy wrote:
daily reminder that if ure buying radiance on TB, then u might as well play Naga Fixed it for you  Now seriously, why Radiance when you can get all T2s with just Manta and go highground after Manta Skadi at 25minutes? I see Radiance on TB as a "my team wont be able to take fights early anyway"/"we just need to stall until lategame and we win". In that case I get it, but apart from helping you get 6 slotted sooner, I don't like the synergy. Both the 60% damage illusions and 550 Range 80base damage aspects of the hero doesn't synergize with the item. radiance on TB is way more important than radiance on Naga, if u fail to see that try figuring out why. implying teamfighting or fighting in general is in any way favourable ever if u have a hardcarry especially terrorblade. radiance makes u take control of the whole map, u literally decide for the enemy when they push and when they dont. manta first on tb is such a fucking joke. you can literally have pms quelling treads yasha rad at ~16min. if freefarming you shud be hitting more than 10cs by 10min. you also dont need a manta to take a T2 nor do u need a team with u to do so, constant pressure everywhere gives u so much space to do it freely.
This only works if you're team is competent enough to be able to fight for about 15-16 minutes without you, which isn't always possible if you aren't stacking. For the vast majority of players, going an early game stats = > bkb build is alot safer and alot stronger since you'll probably be forced to fight anyways.
Also, your radiance timings are under the assumption you aren't laning against some lame ass lane that involves Lich/Clockwork, or some other nonsensical nuking/harassing lane. TB is strong in lane vs heroes that rely on escapes/phys harassment like WR/Mirana, but gets shit on by offensive tri-lanes and strong dual nuking lanes.
That being said, TB is fucking OP as hell in pubs because almost no one offensive tri-lanes or dual lanes with heavy stuns/nukes. Everyone seems to think it's ok to lane Mirana/WR/Puck/etc. against TB, then they wonder how TB got a 30 minute BoT/Skadi/Manta/Radiance.
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Blink Dagger is a totally legit item on Terrorblade if you're not going Radiance. You can use it similarly to how Drow and Clinkz uses it, as well as to pull Sunder shenanigans.
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On February 27 2014 04:10 ChunderBoy wrote:
I feel like you guys don't have a clue about item timings for hard carries. Or maybe you just die a lot or miss lasthits.
Terrorblade timings are:
Quelling/PMS/Treads/Yasha/Radiance ~ 16min.
+Manta/+Skadi ~ 25min
+Butterfly/+(Eblade or Satanic or BKB or another Butterfly) ~ 33min
You can get a BKB much earlier if you have to. Also if you are going for Manta first builds, I don't see much point in finishing a Manta instead of getting Yasha+BKB.
Antimage timings are:
Quelling/PMS/Treads/Battlefury/Vlads ~ 14-17min
+Manta ~ 20-22min
+Butterfly/Abyssal ~ 30min
Morphling timings are:
Aquila/Treads/Bottle/Stick/Linkens ~ 14~20min
+Eblade ~ < 25min
Timings for items don't matter as much for Morph because he is way more about execution than farming. This hero cannot win with pure farm.
PL has more variance with timings depending on how well enemies can AOE his illusions that farm in lane. But PL needs to be 5 or 6 slotted in order to win a game and you need to make sure you're farmed enough at < 37min as an upper bound.
Note: Getting radiance does not mean you can't fight... sending a TB illusion to a fight for radiance burn is enough to net you some kills, and its not like there is anything stopping you from contributing with your real hero.
wow these timings are very realistic, especially on a pub game
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On February 27 2014 04:10 ChunderBoy wrote:
I feel like you guys don't have a clue about item timings for hard carries. Or maybe you just die a lot or miss lasthits.
Terrorblade timings are:
Quelling/PMS/Treads/Yasha/Radiance ~ 16min.
+Manta/+Skadi ~ 25min
+Butterfly/+(Eblade or Satanic or BKB or another Butterfly) ~ 33min
You can get a BKB much earlier if you have to. Also if you are going for Manta first builds, I don't see much point in finishing a Manta instead of getting Yasha+BKB.
Antimage timings are:
Quelling/PMS/Treads/Battlefury/Vlads ~ 14-17min
+Manta ~ 20-22min
+Butterfly/Abyssal ~ 30min
Morphling timings are:
Aquila/Treads/Bottle/Stick/Linkens ~ 14~20min
+Eblade ~ < 25min
Timings for items don't matter as much for Morph because he is way more about execution than farming. This hero cannot win with pure farm.
PL has more variance with timings depending on how well enemies can AOE his illusions that farm in lane. But PL needs to be 5 or 6 slotted in order to win a game and you need to make sure you're farmed enough at < 37min as an upper bound.
Note: Getting radiance does not mean you can't fight... sending a TB illusion to a fight for radiance burn is enough to net you some kills, and its not like there is anything stopping you from contributing with your real hero.
Rather than telling us how bad we suck because we can't hit 80+ last hits w/in 10 minutes, could you post a 5 minute video to youtube showing us how to do so? I, for one, would love to improve my item timings with safe-lane hard carries...
Sure, I could watch some replays, but I've gotta be honest bro - nobody has hit the numbers you're describing in any of the 1st page TB games I have watched. Not saying you can't do it, just saying that farming this fast must rely on perfect conditions.
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Lalalaland34486 Posts
I'm nowhere near as good as Beesa but I've managed to hit a 17 minute Quelling/PMS/Treads/Yasha/Radiance. Admittedly it was almost untouched free farm, but no kills/towers.
One thing you should remember is that if you go 1-4-1-1 it's pretty easy to last hit with an illusion and just Treads/PMS/Quelling while you attack move through the jungle.
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On March 07 2014 03:43 Firebolt145 wrote:
I'm nowhere near as good as Beesa but I've managed to hit a 17 minute Quelling/PMS/Treads/Yasha/Radiance. Admittedly it was almost untouched free farm, but no kills/towers.
One thing you should remember is that if you go 1-4-1-1 it's pretty easy to last hit with an illusion and just Treads/PMS/Quelling while you attack move through the jungle.
These timings are so impressive. i saw RTZ play TB yesterday on the safelane, with freefarm, two towerkills, without this junglingtechnique and he didnt got near these timings. So, it isnt wierd that mere mortals dont seem to reach these timings without this dualfarm technique
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On March 07 2014 03:37 Rybka wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2014 04:10 ChunderBoy wrote:
I feel like you guys don't have a clue about item timings for hard carries. Or maybe you just die a lot or miss lasthits.
Terrorblade timings are:
Quelling/PMS/Treads/Yasha/Radiance ~ 16min.
+Manta/+Skadi ~ 25min
+Butterfly/+(Eblade or Satanic or BKB or another Butterfly) ~ 33min
You can get a BKB much earlier if you have to. Also if you are going for Manta first builds, I don't see much point in finishing a Manta instead of getting Yasha+BKB.
Antimage timings are:
Quelling/PMS/Treads/Battlefury/Vlads ~ 14-17min
+Manta ~ 20-22min
+Butterfly/Abyssal ~ 30min
Morphling timings are:
Aquila/Treads/Bottle/Stick/Linkens ~ 14~20min
+Eblade ~ < 25min
Timings for items don't matter as much for Morph because he is way more about execution than farming. This hero cannot win with pure farm.
PL has more variance with timings depending on how well enemies can AOE his illusions that farm in lane. But PL needs to be 5 or 6 slotted in order to win a game and you need to make sure you're farmed enough at < 37min as an upper bound.
Note: Getting radiance does not mean you can't fight... sending a TB illusion to a fight for radiance burn is enough to net you some kills, and its not like there is anything stopping you from contributing with your real hero.
Rather than telling us how bad we suck because we can't hit 80+ last hits w/in 10 minutes, could you post a 5 minute video to youtube showing us how to do so? I, for one, would love to improve my item timings with safe-lane hard carries... Sure, I could watch some replays, but I've gotta be honest bro - nobody has hit the numbers you're describing in any of the 1st page TB games I have watched. Not saying you can't do it, just saying that farming this fast must rely on perfect conditions.
why don't you watch beesa's own replays?
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I'm inclined to think that if you get 17minutes of complete free farm with TB you already won no matter if you go for Radiance or faster Manta Skadi/BKB. What would be interesting to discuss is if a 25min+ pub Radiance is worth it on this hero or not (considering you still have your basic Treads QB Yasha early core).
Also is Aquila a decent item after the 3agi buff?
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On March 07 2014 05:19 Noya wrote:
I'm inclined to think that if you get 17minutes of complete free farm with TB you already won no matter if you go for Radiance or faster Manta Skadi/BKB. What would be interesting to discuss is if a 25min+ pub Radiance is worth it on this hero or not (considering you still have your basic Treads QB Yasha early core).
Also is Aquila a decent item after the 3agi buff?
In my experience no matter which hero i play, if my radiance is done after 20/21 minutes i will mostly loose 80% of the matches, if radiance is completed before 20/21 minutes i win more then i loose. Dont forget your team plays 4v5 until you got some form of mana, movementspeed and this device. Radiance is nice early but every minute its late the impact diminishes quite a bit.
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On March 07 2014 05:19 Noya wrote:
I'm inclined to think that if you get 17minutes of complete free farm with TB you already won no matter if you go for Radiance or faster Manta Skadi/BKB. What would be interesting to discuss is if a 25min+ pub Radiance is worth it on this hero or not (considering you still have your basic Treads QB Yasha early core).
Also is Aquila a decent item after the 3agi buff?
I've won unwinnable games with a super late (25 mins~) radiance. I think there are some times where you can just splitpush your way to victory with a late radiance. Depends, obviously.
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It's all game state, and what will be happening in the five to ten minutes after your Radiance is done.
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hero's like a morphling and naga siren combined into one
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On March 07 2014 03:37 Rybka wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2014 04:10 ChunderBoy wrote:
I feel like you guys don't have a clue about item timings for hard carries. Or maybe you just die a lot or miss lasthits.
Terrorblade timings are:
Quelling/PMS/Treads/Yasha/Radiance ~ 16min.
+Manta/+Skadi ~ 25min
+Butterfly/+(Eblade or Satanic or BKB or another Butterfly) ~ 33min
You can get a BKB much earlier if you have to. Also if you are going for Manta first builds, I don't see much point in finishing a Manta instead of getting Yasha+BKB.
Antimage timings are:
Quelling/PMS/Treads/Battlefury/Vlads ~ 14-17min
+Manta ~ 20-22min
+Butterfly/Abyssal ~ 30min
Morphling timings are:
Aquila/Treads/Bottle/Stick/Linkens ~ 14~20min
+Eblade ~ < 25min
Timings for items don't matter as much for Morph because he is way more about execution than farming. This hero cannot win with pure farm.
PL has more variance with timings depending on how well enemies can AOE his illusions that farm in lane. But PL needs to be 5 or 6 slotted in order to win a game and you need to make sure you're farmed enough at < 37min as an upper bound.
Note: Getting radiance does not mean you can't fight... sending a TB illusion to a fight for radiance burn is enough to net you some kills, and its not like there is anything stopping you from contributing with your real hero.
Rather than telling us how bad we suck because we can't hit 80+ last hits w/in 10 minutes, could you post a 5 minute video to youtube showing us how to do so? I, for one, would love to improve my item timings with safe-lane hard carries... Sure, I could watch some replays, but I've gotta be honest bro - nobody has hit the numbers you're describing in any of the 1st page TB games I have watched. Not saying you can't do it, just saying that farming this fast must rely on perfect conditions.
Lots of people miss last hits under towers for instance because they don't know how to properly judge their own base damage. You shouldn't miss that many last hits under the tower, maybe 4-5 within a few minutes at most. Also, lots of carries tend to be dumb and accidentally push their wave into the opposing tower. For the most part, it's actually better to just stay farming rather than going for kills, as going for a kill most of the time doesn't pay off. It screws up lane control, and lets the other person get back into the lane sometimes simply because of this.
Perfect CS in 10 minutes is something like 80ish to 90 I think (don't know the math off the top of my head). If you're not being heavily contested as TB this should be relatively easy.
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The problem is that in solo queue the chances of getting complete uncontested farm is pretty low. The issue with dual farming the jungle and the lane is that when you're focusing on last hitting with your illusion you end up taking a lot of damage as your hero and are susceptible to ganks. You face a fair amount of 2v2 lanes in pubs and when your metamorphis is on cd your ability to contest for last hits and denies is pretty subpar because of how easy it is to burst him down
I also agree that generally in any game where you can get the quelling pms treads yasha radiance build in 17 minutes, you could probably also go shadowblade dagon run around sundering people and still win. Is it strong? yes. Does it allow ridiculous farm? yes. Could you have won by just going straight to manta bkb and pushing to win? Definitely. Getting that level of free farm usually means that your team is straight up winning 4v5 anyways
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On March 07 2014 22:19 KOFgokuon wrote:
The problem is that in solo queue the chances of getting complete uncontested farm is pretty low. The issue with dual farming the jungle and the lane is that when you're focusing on last hitting with your illusion you end up taking a lot of damage as your hero and are susceptible to ganks. You face a fair amount of 2v2 lanes in pubs and when your metamorphis is on cd your ability to contest for last hits and denies is pretty subpar because of how easy it is to burst him down
I also agree that generally in any game where you can get the quelling pms treads yasha radiance build in 17 minutes, you could probably also go shadowblade dagon run around sundering people and still win. Is it strong? yes. Does it allow ridiculous farm? yes. Could you have won by just going straight to manta bkb and pushing to win? Definitely. Getting that level of free farm usually means that your team is straight up winning 4v5 anyways
theres a lot of games u can win with hardcarry were ur team is completely feeding and u are also under pressure with like 50cs at 10min. it boils down to how good u are at understanding how the map works and how much of a low profile you can keep and how much advantage no matter how small you can squeeze out of everything. good players sway the game in their favour bit by bit.
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Lalalaland34486 Posts
Went into an empty game with TB to see how quick I could get PMS/Quelling/Treads/Yasha/Radiance with Beesa as honorary coach.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/2vtpdXO.jpg)
That was the only tower taken. I missed at least 20-30 last hits on the way which is ~1200 gold, meaning I could've got it a lot earlier. Yes you could say that in a real game you'd be pressured into losing more last hits, but in a real game you'd also easily get more tower gold + kills on the offlaner/whatever thanks to metamorphosis being ridiculous.
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Should make it a competition to see who can get it the fastest with a TL no prize attached. Only stipulation is no tower kills because that gives all of the tower gold (I assume)
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Lalalaland34486 Posts
No, it's split as per normal, even if you're the only player in the game. Also pre tower kill I was at 1250 gold already so only needed 2 more creeps to get it.
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On March 07 2014 23:36 Laurens wrote:
WTB some Beesa coaching
I know right?! LOL
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EPT
