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On February 21 2014 23:27 gaymon wrote:
Beesa is in obviously right in theory, in most cases radiance is an insane item on tb IF your team knows how to play when your #1 is getting a radiance and the lineups are even. His standpoint is understandable as someone who plays in stacks regularly but if you happen to soloqueue or play with generally inexperienced (bad) people radiance is absolutely NOT the item to go for and manta is a lot more solid.
Beesa?
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Netherlands45349 Posts
getting a DD at level 7-8 is hilarious for pushing appearently.
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Terrorblade tbh is by far one of the strongest pubstomping heroes. I usually jungle with him. It's a little slow at first, but his metamorphosis and illusions do a LOT of damage and rack money pretty quickly. Also, with his high agility and hp regen, he can easily eat up jungle creeps. Once you get SnY and Manta (I prefer drums for some tankiness and speed), he is a wrecking ball when it comes to pushing and can easily get the money for skadi.
The radiance build is viable, but it's a bit too greedy imo. He has one of highest agility gain and has a third ability that does tons of damage. Radiance is a bit of overkill because there are many other items that are way more useful for him. Also, he doesn't have much survival options (his ult is pretty good if you're going against a melee hero, due to its low range  ), compared to NS's better strength gain and PL's magic resistance, an escape, and spontaneous illusion creations.
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I think he is very strong early game in lane, no need to jungle. He can kill since lvl 2, just jump in, cast refraction, metamorph and attack / walk them to death. I like to get Radiance after Manta to split push with radiance images ^^
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The radiance build is a possibility but there is almost never a reason to make the hero come online so late especially considering the astonishing damage you deal at level 7 already. Treads, drums into manta and demolish heroes and towers alike is the way to go most of the times.
If you, for some reason, have plenty of room to farm, no way to reliably get to their towers to damage them and no need to come online soon, radiance is a good item. (I haven't tried it on the hero but I'd figure it could be a slightly slower but more powerful version of radiance naga siren which got me 13 creeps/minute the few times I've played her this way).
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Getting a radiance does not mean that you sit on your butt for 25 minutes farming up ~3 cores items before you come out of the jungle. A Terrorblade with PT/Yasha and 3k in the bank pushes towers almost as well as one with a finished Manta. And you're damn powerful in small skirmishes as well.
If you for some reason want to actively seek out full scale team fights early on with Terrorblade, then Manta is a very stupid item to get. What really fucks you over in team fights is disables. If you don't want to, or can't get a Radiance, then you should get a BKB, not a Manta. Manta is an awful first item.
And getting a Radiance is not just about the farm. By keeping the lanes pushed out and threatening T3 split pushes or diving illusions behind the enemy to steal their creeps you can greatly delay or even prevent the enemy team from pushing. This is a big deal for a hero that not only scales incredibly well into the late game, but whose team fight ability is entirely reliant on a spell with 140s cooldown.
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I don't think I would ever even consider getting a radiance on tb.
Why would you save up so much gold on a champion that is good at all stages of the game?
He isn't like a naga that does nothing without it. I prefer to get an s&y early to try and help his abysmal hp pool while getting a bit of damage and movespeed.
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i dont even, what? radiance? wth? you starve and need to get 3800 for a +60 damage item, no stats and would die a lot.
For Tb all you need are stat items. get crit / bkb for protection. so simple yet so good.
treads, yasha/SnY, crit/bkb, manta/scadi
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Again my stance is to just get stat items and bkb and just man fight and push high ground. I feel there is no need to play a dragging starving split push game when TB is strong enough to just fight head on early.
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ITT: people claiming bgod is wrong and they know better.
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Russian Federation40186 Posts
On February 26 2014 18:50 Xypski wrote:
ITT: people claiming bgod is wrong and they know better.
ITT: people claiming that terrorblade is versatile. And he actually is item build wise.
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Match id 518277116
Radiance build TB where i got rad about 4 mins late after having a tough lane to farm in and still had nearly 600cs at 45 mins. After picking it up i was able to farm almost 500 cs over then next 25 mins and this was FAAAR from perfect play i'm sure a pro level player with free farm could easily have hit 700 cs by the 45 min mark since with free farm and getting your rad on time you could easily get 200cs in the first 20 mins.
Terror Blade is great with early fight items as well and you should always build whats optimal for the situation but saying radiance is a bad item on TB is just stupid i would say he is probably the best radiance hero in the game up there with naga due to their ability to completely control that whole map and win games literally 1v5.
Long story short if you think rad is bad you are doing it wrong maybe you don't have the micro/apm/ map awareness i don't know but its a very legit build. You get ahead in items faster then an AM have better map control and are still stronger in the early phases at fighting.
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On February 26 2014 22:48 Oxyoxygen wrote:
Match id 518277116
Radiance build TB where i got rad about 4 mins late after having a tough lane to farm in and still had nearly 600cs at 45 mins. After picking it up i was able to farm almost 500 cs over then next 25 mins and this was FAAAR from perfect play i'm sure a pro level player with free farm could easily have hit 700 cs by the 45 min mark since with free farm and getting your rad on time you could easily get 200cs in the first 20 mins.
Terror Blade is great with early fight items as well and you should always build whats optimal for the situation but saying radiance is a bad item on TB is just stupid i would say he is probably the best radiance hero in the game up there with naga due to their ability to completely control that whole map and win games literally 1v5.
Long story short if you think rad is bad you are doing it wrong maybe you don't have the micro/apm/ map awareness i don't know but its a very legit build. You get ahead in items faster then an AM have better map control and are still stronger in the early phases at fighting.
Your sample size of 1 isn't very convincing, and it's not about the amount of farm you have, or that you had some success with radiance, it's about efficiency/optimization.
(I'm not condemning or advocating either build here, but I think we'd all rather have some actual numbers rather than this endless discussion from both sides).
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On February 26 2014 23:14 ReignSupreme. wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2014 22:48 Oxyoxygen wrote:
Match id 518277116
Radiance build TB where i got rad about 4 mins late after having a tough lane to farm in and still had nearly 600cs at 45 mins. After picking it up i was able to farm almost 500 cs over then next 25 mins and this was FAAAR from perfect play i'm sure a pro level player with free farm could easily have hit 700 cs by the 45 min mark since with free farm and getting your rad on time you could easily get 200cs in the first 20 mins.
Terror Blade is great with early fight items as well and you should always build whats optimal for the situation but saying radiance is a bad item on TB is just stupid i would say he is probably the best radiance hero in the game up there with naga due to their ability to completely control that whole map and win games literally 1v5.
Long story short if you think rad is bad you are doing it wrong maybe you don't have the micro/apm/ map awareness i don't know but its a very legit build. You get ahead in items faster then an AM have better map control and are still stronger in the early phases at fighting. Your sample size of 1 isn't very convincing, and it's not about the amount of farm you have, or that you had some success with radiance, it's about efficiency/optimization. (I'm not condemning or advocating either build here, but I think we'd all rather have some actual numbers rather than this endless discussion from both sides).
Im like 12-4 with the build, still a small sample size but consistent results so far for me i think. I have a average gpm of >650 over 16 games with a handful of games around 850-900. If TB gets added to cm and people start to see players practicing it on stream or playing in games i think people will start to see that this is a very common/legit build. If you watch a replay of a player doing this build well you can see the dominating effect it has on a game due to how much control over the map it gives.
Also i'm not saying this is the only build at all for terrorblade i think he is extremely effective with early fight items. You should always ply the situation and he is a versatile hero imo. I'm just saying people that are saying radiance build is bad are just straight up under informed and wrong.
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Radiance is legit, nobody should deny that. I think it's a matter of how the game/your farm is going, though. If you get uncontested farm and can get a <min 20 Treads Yasha Radiance go for it. But for example I wouldn't push for a min 30 Radiance, if your team is losing I think it won't make a difference unlike a min 30 Radiance on Lone Druid/Naga would for example.
The core items are still Manta+Skadi (+situational BKB), getting Radiance is a more expensive Midas that will get you there a little slower while gimping your ability to manfight at min 20 but will surely make your next luxury items (Butterfly most of the times) come faster.
The point is, this hero is powerful when 6 slotted no doubt, but he's also unstoppable if you get a quick Manta Skadi/BKB at the 25min mark unless they have a way to quickly kill the illusions while disabling the main hero.
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I feel like you guys don't have a clue about item timings for hard carries. Or maybe you just die a lot or miss lasthits.
Terrorblade timings are:
Quelling/PMS/Treads/Yasha/Radiance ~ 16min.
+Manta/+Skadi ~ 25min
+Butterfly/+(Eblade or Satanic or BKB or another Butterfly) ~ 33min
You can get a BKB much earlier if you have to. Also if you are going for Manta first builds, I don't see much point in finishing a Manta instead of getting Yasha+BKB.
Antimage timings are:
Quelling/PMS/Treads/Battlefury/Vlads ~ 14-17min
+Manta ~ 20-22min
+Butterfly/Abyssal ~ 30min
Morphling timings are:
Aquila/Treads/Bottle/Stick/Linkens ~ 14~20min
+Eblade ~ < 25min
Timings for items don't matter as much for Morph because he is way more about execution than farming. This hero cannot win with pure farm.
PL has more variance with timings depending on how well enemies can AOE his illusions that farm in lane. But PL needs to be 5 or 6 slotted in order to win a game and you need to make sure you're farmed enough at < 37min as an upper bound.
Note: Getting radiance does not mean you can't fight... sending a TB illusion to a fight for radiance burn is enough to net you some kills, and its not like there is anything stopping you from contributing with your real hero.
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he really isn't that hard to beat. Did any of you play DOta 1 back in the day? The name of the game is CC. Sven's stuns, shadow shaman's shackle/hex, Treeants ult, tidehunter ult.
Also, another great thing is SILENCE on him. When he comes at you with low HP, silence him like with skywrath or silencer or countless other heroes. It revolves around making sure sunder does NOT Go through lol
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Lalalaland34486 Posts
On February 27 2014 04:10 ChunderBoy wrote:
Or maybe you just die a lot or miss lasthits.
This might be the problem for most of us non-6k people.
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I should practice bot games to get those timings x)
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EPT
