EPTTeam Secret Discussion - Page 40
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Uranium
United States1077 Posts
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FHDH
United States7023 Posts
RTZ is one of the best players in the world. So why haven't they been able to make this work, when they made Kuroky safelane carry work the whole time before RTZ arrived? Is it RTZ just not being a good safelane carry, or sufficiently good at the meta's safelane carries? Is it Puppey's drafts? Is the loss of n0tail making it harder for them to make space for a safelane carry - as good as *KUROKY is they are different players - or...what. I don't know but I find the current style very limiting and while it's certain that bringing RTZ on caused it I don't know who is most at fault for the apparent inflexibility. | ||
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Super_Style
296 Posts
On April 07 2015 05:40 FHDH wrote: I think S4 is a top-tier player but I don't think this position suits him. That is part of why the "RTZ is here, must move position 1 to mid primarily and move S4 to run utility heroes in the safelane" thing has irritated me so much. RTZ is one of the best players in the world. So why haven't they been able to make this work, when they made Kuroky safelane carry work the whole time before RTZ arrived? Is it RTZ just not being a good safelane carry, or sufficiently good at the meta's safelane carries? Is it Puppey's drafts? Is the loss of n0tail making it harder for them to make space for a safelane carry - as good as Aui is they are different players - or...what. I don't know but I find the current style very limiting and while it's certain that bringing RTZ on caused it I don't know who is most at fault for the apparent inflexibility. No one is saying secret is bad, even as they are they are top 5 team worldwide, the context im speaking of is what i think secret needs to do to be international champion material. Puppy certainly needs better drafts and im hopeful zai will get that safelane position and switch s4 to offlane, because thats the only way i can see him staying in team. Also i doubt that they were a better team before zai and rtz came, even with how things are. If both zai and rtz have good performance secret wins, s4's performance is a non factor. | ||
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Uranium
United States1077 Posts
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govie
9334 Posts
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DucK-
Singapore11446 Posts
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FHDH
United States7023 Posts
On April 07 2015 06:11 DucK- wrote: You guys are making it seem like they have been failing hard with RTZ core mid, or that RTZ can't play at the safe lane. Both of this are untrue. I don't think the first half of that statement is true either. Their drafting preferences have been pretty clear and the discussion is about both those preferences and the performance between their core style and the deviations. | ||
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Super_Style
296 Posts
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FHDH
United States7023 Posts
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DucK-
Singapore11446 Posts
On April 07 2015 06:18 Super_Style wrote: s4 was a world class mid, 2 years ago, back when sumail was in diapers. New players come to the sceen, others get better or worse, the game and the players arent exactly as they were 2 years ago. He did play mid SF game 1 vs sfz today, he had a good laning stage, but he was just clueless what to do mid game with that hero. And tbh team like secret should not lose vs team like sfz even with puppy safa lane, kuroky mid and zai techies. sfz played really really well in the first game. Stop taking credit away from them. No team is unbeatable. | ||
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Super_Style
296 Posts
Also id say that their 3rd place and their group stage record at DAC is a far far better achievement then winning those 2 small tournaments with misery as a standin. | ||
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FHDH
United States7023 Posts
But S4 did the job he was put in a position to do. How much "impact" he has is not something he has direct control over. He can only perform the role he's given, and his performance has been pretty excellent. | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11446 Posts
On April 07 2015 06:25 Super_Style wrote: You cant possibly think that s4 had better performance then zai at dac, zai had to pull some unseen shit out of his ass to carry secret when rtz couldnt. s4 maybe had the best stats but his impact was not even close to that of zai or rtz. Also id say that their 3rd place and their group stage record at DAC is a far far better achievement then winning those 2 small tournaments with misery as a standin. I do think that s4 is not playing at his best level. But he is not playing terribly either. It also doesn't really matter if he gets outshone by zai or rtz. Who cares if s4 isn't the best player on the team if the team can still win games? | ||
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Evander Berry Wall
United States1137 Posts
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DucK-
Singapore11446 Posts
On April 07 2015 06:36 Evander Berry Wall wrote: If they lose this game, I'm ultimately going to attribute it to two times they went high ground and practically ignored the buildings. Or randomly feeding like what Kuro did. | ||
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Super_Style
296 Posts
On April 07 2015 06:34 DucK- wrote: I do think that s4 is not playing at his best level. But he is not playing terribly either. It also doesn't really matter if he gets outshone by zai or rtz. Who cares if s4 isn't the best player on the team if the team can still win games? As i said, secret is still top 5 team worldwide with s4 and all of their other problems, BUT if they want to think of them self a number 1 team then s4 is not good enough, not at his current position, i do feel however that he would make a better offlaner then a safelaner. My point about his dac performance is that zai had game changing plays and performances, hes 600gpm puck, his brood against c9, and some others cant remember all, where he pulled secret from a defeat. While s4 had a good performance he didnt have those performances where he won his team a lost game. If zai didnt play as good as he did secret wouldnt go past c9. | ||
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sch0n
Norway81 Posts
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govie
9334 Posts
s4 is one of the best mids in the west. | ||
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Hai1Fyre
South Africa270 Posts
The one thing that I've been thinking about a lot lately is Secret's supports. They seem to be incredibly greedy, while this is good and it is beneficial if your supports have gold and levels, I worry that sometimes its at the cost of the Cores being protected. We often see Secret with Puppey on a jungler and Kuroky roaming, very little lane support to be honest (they do occasionally, but not often). Just a thought... I personally think they have communication and drafting problems at the moment. As far as individual skill goes, these guys are all top tier. Also, we should just chill... This is not TI5, its just a couple of group stage games and qualifiers, its impossible to be at your best 100% of the time... Give them some time guys...  | ||
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triplewgf
Philippines13 Posts
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