On August 28 2016 04:22 common_cider wrote: w33 was kicked for immaturity. it got one veryone's nerves. They liked misery. source puppey interview
New lineup. Absolutely love it. We get 3 of the best core players in the world. These core players have accomplished top finishes without a world class support duo. Combine a top of the world support duo with these 3 cores and u have a fukin' team.
Is this a fan opinion? Do you really call ppy and pld a world class support duo based on their plays the last months since universe-secret to the TI6 secret?
1. Puppey+pie were the 2 best players in the world at the shanghai major even when cores were inconsistent. PLD lion king and Puppey undefeated on jungglers. puppey ench eviscerated Liquid. 2. First 7 valve events, Puppey 5 finals. Outside dendi, and a couple teammates, next closest player has 1/7 finals. 3. Secret was so desperate for good core play, they had to put Envy mid
Thats just a quote that supports a time schedule from ti1 to shanghai. The last tourneys they showed up nothing special. They re a tier 1 support duo, nothing more. World class is far away from them these days. I would rate them as players with the potential but not players with a worldclass level at this time.
There is no indicator they are up to their old shape.
1. Puppey compared managing a Dota team to having a car accident in your backyard everyday 2. Considered retiring
Finally, it appears Puppey is forming a team that he has always wanted. No cancer, no egos and everybody listens to the captain. Thank god the SEA region produced tier 1 players before puppey retired after battling cancer for 10 years.
Even PPD was stressed as hell winning ti5. probably took 5 years off his life.
That brings up an interesting question: for tournaments that have flags for their teams, what is Secret's going to be? They can't just use the European Union one anymore.
On August 29 2016 08:53 pyrocumulus wrote: That brings up an interesting question: for tournaments that have flags for their teams, what is Secret's going to be? They can't just use the European Union one anymore.
322. Envy - See DP, RAzor, Bat rider, Jugg, potm. This was a clinic in 5.5k mmr mid play Thank god he didn't play Invoker. See pubs last week of August.
Ya it would be nice to keep RTZ. Still, it's great to have 2 Koreans instead of 1 lonely Korean. There's an advantage to having these SEA players over Universe/RTZ. RTZ/Universe more likely to abandon.
On August 28 2016 04:22 common_cider wrote: w33 was kicked for immaturity. it got one veryone's nerves. They liked misery. source puppey interview https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HLeuq_ty0U
New lineup. Absolutely love it. We get 3 of the best core players in the world. These core players have accomplished top finishes without a world class support duo. Combine a top of the world support duo with these 3 cores and u have a fukin' team.
Is this a fan opinion? Do you really call ppy and pld a world class support duo based on their plays the last months since universe-secret to the TI6 secret?
1. Puppey+pie were the 2 best players in the world at the shanghai major even when cores were inconsistent. PLD lion king and Puppey undefeated on jungglers. puppey ench eviscerated Liquid. 2. First 7 valve events, Puppey 5 finals. Outside dendi, and a couple teammates, next closest player has 1/7 finals. 3. Secret was so desperate for good core play, they had to put Envy mid
Thats just a quote that supports a time schedule from ti1 to shanghai. The last tourneys they showed up nothing special. They re a tier 1 support duo, nothing more. World class is far away from them these days. I would rate them as players with the potential but not players with a worldclass level at this time.
There is no indicator they are up to their old shape.
tier 1 but far away from world class huh.
how do you communicate with people like this when words have no meaning
322. Envy - See DP, RAzor, Bat rider, Jugg, potm. This was a clinic in 5.5k mmr mid play Thank god he didn't play Invoker. See pubs last week of August.
Ya it would be nice to keep RTZ. Still, it's great to have 2 Koreans instead of 1 lonely Korean. There's an advantage to having these SEA players over Universe/RTZ. RTZ/Universe more likely to abandon.
I don't think we watched the same TI6 if you're actually gonna place Kuku and old chicken above anyone.
On August 28 2016 04:22 common_cider wrote: w33 was kicked for immaturity. it got one veryone's nerves. They liked misery. source puppey interview https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HLeuq_ty0U
New lineup. Absolutely love it. We get 3 of the best core players in the world. These core players have accomplished top finishes without a world class support duo. Combine a top of the world support duo with these 3 cores and u have a fukin' team.
Is this a fan opinion? Do you really call ppy and pld a world class support duo based on their plays the last months since universe-secret to the TI6 secret?
1. Puppey+pie were the 2 best players in the world at the shanghai major even when cores were inconsistent. PLD lion king and Puppey undefeated on jungglers. puppey ench eviscerated Liquid. 2. First 7 valve events, Puppey 5 finals. Outside dendi, and a couple teammates, next closest player has 1/7 finals. 3. Secret was so desperate for good core play, they had to put Envy mid
Thats just a quote that supports a time schedule from ti1 to shanghai. The last tourneys they showed up nothing special. They re a tier 1 support duo, nothing more. World class is far away from them these days. I would rate them as players with the potential but not players with a worldclass level at this time.
There is no indicator they are up to their old shape.
tier 1 but far away from world class huh.
how do you communicate with people like this when words have no meaning
tier 1 team for me is: qualified for TI6.
This means each support duo is a tier 1 duo. World class is a different category.
I have not seen this tier of shitposting in ages lol.
Also 100% echo Dysisa's comments on old chicken/Kuku. Clearly this guy is conflating team results with the quality of mid play. For one thing, why is blink below old chicken lolwat?
322. Envy - See DP, RAzor, Bat rider, Jugg, potm. This was a clinic in 5.5k mmr mid play Thank god he didn't play Invoker. See pubs last week of August.
Ya it would be nice to keep RTZ. Still, it's great to have 2 Koreans instead of 1 lonely Korean. There's an advantage to having these SEA players over Universe/RTZ. RTZ/Universe more likely to abandon.
I don't think we watched the same TI6 if you're actually gonna place Kuku and old chicken above anyone.
i didn't watch all the games. when i saw old chicken play, he was fine. Ok, blink should be a little higher, old chicken a little lower so what.
I only put kuku above ee, qoj, and limmp by tiers. I'm not saying kuku is better than nono or dendi
On August 30 2016 06:38 hariooo wrote: world class meaning being able to play at a top tier "international" level of competition right?
I dont know what other sports you re watching, in soccer "world class" is not defined by being able to participate in the champions league. It s also not defined as a national team to qualify for the world cup, and then all player are called world class.
World class is a selection from tier 1 teams. Germany for example clearly won the world cup, but there is no german player who is called world class. They got a world class strategy and playstyle, but individual they dont have world class athletes like cr7 or messi.
Dota is not a national league, so I would compare it to the champions league - and teams try to get world class athletes to be able to win it.
On August 30 2016 06:38 hariooo wrote: world class meaning being able to play at a top tier "international" level of competition right?
World class is a selection from tier 1 teams. Germany for example clearly won the world cup, but there is no german player who is called world class. They got a world class strategy and playstyle, but individual they dont have world class athletes like cr7 or messi.
Dota is not a national league, so I would compare it to the champions league - and teams try to get world class athletes to be able to win it.
Can't let this go I'm sorry. Neuer is world class and there is no argument there.
On topic I would agree that world class doesn't mean playing at the highest level it means standing out at the highest level.
I'm interested to see this line up play, I feel like more than any line up before it could be really good or really bad, probably nowhere in the middle.
Secret's lineup makes perfect sense. basically, they got what they wanted at each position. We'll never know if QO were considered ahead of Mp or Midone. I remember puppey only wanted Zai for ti5, but Zai was only leaving if Artour came with. To get Zai, they had to take RTZ.
Questions I wish we could get answered: 1. Did MP or Forev want midone instead of QO. I can understand if 1 or both of them grew tired of QO 2. Did Puppey ever even approach miracle about joining? I would think yes, but would love details. Miracle seems to be fond of matumba. I can see why Miracle wants 1-2 punch with matumba. 3. Did Puppey value MP or QO higher? Most people think QO of course, but I'm not so sure.
On a completely different note, Keeping EE post Shanghai was the biggest blunder of Puppey's career. Puppey said in Russian interview, w33 was the immature 1 of the team, so it was the logical choice. they wanted mature and professional players. By immature he probably meant ignoring/disobeying captain/teammates and not taking scrims seriously.
However, Puppey misjudged just how horrible EE would be on the new patches post shnaghai. Doubly bad, it turns out w33 is up there with Zai, Miracle, faith_bian and Maybe as MVPs of team in terms of in game skill. Keeping EE and dumping w33 has turned out to be the #1 roster mistake in Dota history. Cost Secret Millions and a shot at a title.
edit: Keeping EE over w33 is like drafting sam bowie over Michael Jordan. Secret went from top contender to pure dogshit at manilla, epicenter, and ti6.
Also, Puppey compared RTZ to Dendi. I'm pretty sure now he perfers MP > RTZ
It's interesting how TI is so overcentralizing in terms of creating narratives.
Secret 2.0 probably had, at least one of, the highest talent peaks in the history of DOTA but their issues collapsing the team at TI5 somehow makes them a textbook example of how superstar teams don't work.
Meanwhile DC gets literally nothing done and posts zero results post Shanghai but an extraordinary run at TI6 immediately vindicates those players.
I like w33 but this post is just taking hindsight to an extremely annoying level.
On September 01 2016 05:49 hariooo wrote: It's interesting how TI is so overcentralizing in terms of creating narratives.
Secret 2.0 probably had, at least one of, the highest talent peaks in the history of DOTA but their issues collapsing the team at TI5 somehow makes them a textbook example of how superstar teams don't work.
Meanwhile DC gets literally nothing done and posts zero results post Shanghai but an extraordinary run at TI6 immediately vindicates those players.
I like w33 but this post is just taking hindsight to an extremely annoying level.
Thats something I would criticize too - secret 2.0 with S4 as a "leader" was an awesome lineup and won tourney after tourney. Its no indicator for superstar-lineups do not work.
Afterwards they tried with rtz universe and failed, but thats still no statement. The synergy of secret 2.0 was perfect. S4 is a perfect mid for rtz in safelane.
EPT
