They are just plain not playing strategically. This is a captaining issue. This is what separates the top teams from the TT-tier teams: they draft for a strategy and play to execute it. When you draft a Medusa and then draft a space-making mid AND THEN you start fighting around the map while your Medusa (or AM, or whatever late-game hard-carry) farms, that is playing with a strategy. When you draft a bunch of heroes that fight well and then you fight and then you farm for no reason and then you think "hey, maybe we should rosh now" and maybe you win that fight and maybe you don't...well then you're Tinker, or you're Na'Vi, or you're [insert team with talented players who start letting games go mid-to-late because no plan].
This is why Puppey had to leave Na'Vi: he thinks about strategies that require players to not only play certain kinds of heroes but execute a game plan. He could not get people on board with his gameplan at Na'Vi, he can at Secret. At Tinker no one seems to have that plan. So if you say "so and so farms too much/too little, drafts are xyz" I think it comes down to this. Farm allocation and timing is also a strategic decision, and it involves the whole team.
I don't think Arteezy is totally correct. These opinions stink of "this is what me and Jacky-senpai discussed." To me it comes down to a very simple issue: the captaining is substandard.
On November 13 2014 01:26 FHDH wrote: They are just plain not playing strategically. This is a captaining issue. This is what separates the top teams from the TT-tier teams: they draft for a strategy and play to execute it. When you draft a Medusa and then draft a space-making mid AND THEN you start fighting around the map while your Medusa (or AM, or whatever late-game hard-carry) farms, that is playing with a strategy. When you draft a bunch of heroes that fight well and then you fight and then you farm for no reason and then you think "hey, maybe we should rosh now" and maybe you win that fight and maybe you don't...well then you're Tinker, or you're Na'Vi, or you're [insert team with talented players who start letting games go mid-to-late because no plan].
This is why Puppey had to leave Na'Vi: he thinks about strategies that require players to not only play certain kinds of heroes but execute a game plan. He could not get people on board with his gameplan at Na'Vi, he can at Secret. At Tinker no one seems to have that plan. So if you say "so and so farms too much/too little, drafts are xyz" I think it comes down to this. Farm allocation and timing is also a strategic decision, and it involves the whole team.
I don't think Arteezy is totally correct. These opinions stink of "this is what me and Jacky-senpai discussed." To me it comes down to a very simple issue: the captaining is substandard.
This! Excactly what i was thinking too, but i was too lazy to write a long text;) They are missing a good drafter/in game captain, things like limited hero pools are not the problem. i mean why is eg so good? not because of rtz or zai, but because of superior draft and game plan. and yeah i still think rtz is not right with most of the things he says. sure its easy for him to judge from his position at the top...
On November 13 2014 01:26 FHDH wrote: They are just plain not playing strategically. This is a captaining issue. This is what separates the top teams from the TT-tier teams: they draft for a strategy and play to execute it. When you draft a Medusa and then draft a space-making mid AND THEN you start fighting around the map while your Medusa (or AM, or whatever late-game hard-carry) farms, that is playing with a strategy. When you draft a bunch of heroes that fight well and then you fight and then you farm for no reason and then you think "hey, maybe we should rosh now" and maybe you win that fight and maybe you don't...well then you're Tinker, or you're Na'Vi, or you're [insert team with talented players who start letting games go mid-to-late because no plan].
This is why Puppey had to leave Na'Vi: he thinks about strategies that require players to not only play certain kinds of heroes but execute a game plan. He could not get people on board with his gameplan at Na'Vi, he can at Secret. At Tinker no one seems to have that plan. So if you say "so and so farms too much/too little, drafts are xyz" I think it comes down to this. Farm allocation and timing is also a strategic decision, and it involves the whole team.
I don't think Arteezy is totally correct. These opinions stink of "this is what me and Jacky-senpai discussed." To me it comes down to a very simple issue: the captaining is substandard.
This! Excactly what i was thinking too, but i was too lazy to write a long text;) They are missing a good drafter/in game captain, things like limited hero pools are not the problem. i mean why is eg so good? not because of rtz or zai, but because of superior draft and game plan. and yeah i still think rtz is not right with most of the things he says. sure its easy for him to judge from his position at the top...
Yes PPD is a great captain, but EG have players who are phenomenal at their roles. Universe/Zai are considered the best in the west at their positions. Tinker lack a true 5 position support and their best offlaner is playing support lol. A good captain would certainly help the team, but as it stands now, it's like fitting a square peg in a round hole.
I like the style they showed today and I hope to see it more. Give Qojqva a farming late game hero like Medusa and build the team around him. I'd still like to see Sing as mid again as I don't think Pajkatt fits very well without being in the 1 position. If Bulba can offlane and they pick up a new 5 support who can help draft/captain the team would be better but I doubt they'd do that.
Pajkatt's ability to fit into this team is definitely a question. I don't really like him offlane but his support was pretty bad. Mid he gets a tank like viper and has little to no impact on most games. Qojqva safe makes sense and sing mid seems better. This however does not solve the problem of leadership and decision making since Bulba hasn't risen to the task. It's just becoming more clear that they can't challenge the upper echelon of teams (EG,VG, Secret, etc...) as is.
For Sing stream fans, they got Waga in the stack and were getting kinda crushed in lanes due to the usual goofy nonsense. Then at some point Sing decided it was tryhard time because "we can't fucking lose to Greek stack."
Was pretty interesting to hear him actually talking to his teammates/playing like a professional Dota player instead of a big clowny yolo guy. They won pretty comfortably in the end but it was pretty hairy by mid game with the enemy carry being very fed.
Also this happened:
(he lived)
He's still streaming with Waga if that's your kind of thing.
On November 13 2014 12:28 FHDH wrote: For Sing stream fans, they got Waga in the stack and were getting kinda crushed in lanes due to the usual goofy nonsense. Then at some point Sing decided it was tryhard time because "we can't fucking lose to Greek stack."
Was pretty interesting to hear him actually talking to his teammates/playing like a professional Dota player instead of a big clowny yolo guy. They won pretty comfortably in the end but it was pretty hairy by mid game with the enemy carry being very fed.
Also this happened:
(he lived)
He's still streaming with Waga if that's your kind of thing.
On November 03 2014 10:10 Faruko wrote: I think Tinker should try to give Singsing their signature heroes and be done with the experimentation, like i said the individual skill of the players its much higher than what they are achieving, they shiould be playing much better
Just give him Ember, Mirana or TA, they are good mid heroes that stay relevant all game with farm, which are pretty much the norm in this meta (even though puck is making a comeback)
Meepo too, and his brew is... not bad at least
Lel, delusional singsing fans, just plaing ember and mirana is not versatile enough for a 6.82 player, especially when mirana is fading out the scene. TA is also very weak with far too many counters.
If C9 didn't want somebody who can only play 2-3 heroes, why do you think Tinker wants the same narrow player?
Because they formed a team with him? I seriously doubt that there is a better western core available to replace Sing; I'd love for Hanni to be a part of this team but he isn't actually a free agent and I've seen no one else who looks like a top contender and a free agent,
Who would be a viable replacement for any of tinker's players?
On November 03 2014 10:10 Faruko wrote: I think Tinker should try to give Singsing their signature heroes and be done with the experimentation, like i said the individual skill of the players its much higher than what they are achieving, they shiould be playing much better
Just give him Ember, Mirana or TA, they are good mid heroes that stay relevant all game with farm, which are pretty much the norm in this meta (even though puck is making a comeback)
Meepo too, and his brew is... not bad at least
Lel, delusional singsing fans, just plaing ember and mirana is not versatile enough for a 6.82 player, especially when mirana is fading out the scene. TA is also very weak with far too many counters.
If C9 didn't want somebody who can only play 2-3 heroes, why do you think Tinker wants the same narrow player?
Because they formed a team with him? I seriously doubt that there is a better western core available to replace Sing; I'd love for Hanni to be a part of this team but he isn't actually a free agent and I've seen no one else who looks like a top contender and a free agent,
Who would be a viable replacement for any of tinker's players?
Mason played 12 different heroes at TI4
Mason is worse than all of TTs cores and is playing league now.
On November 03 2014 10:10 Faruko wrote: I think Tinker should try to give Singsing their signature heroes and be done with the experimentation, like i said the individual skill of the players its much higher than what they are achieving, they shiould be playing much better
Just give him Ember, Mirana or TA, they are good mid heroes that stay relevant all game with farm, which are pretty much the norm in this meta (even though puck is making a comeback)
Meepo too, and his brew is... not bad at least
Lel, delusional singsing fans, just plaing ember and mirana is not versatile enough for a 6.82 player, especially when mirana is fading out the scene. TA is also very weak with far too many counters.
If C9 didn't want somebody who can only play 2-3 heroes, why do you think Tinker wants the same narrow player?
Because they formed a team with him? I seriously doubt that there is a better western core available to replace Sing; I'd love for Hanni to be a part of this team but he isn't actually a free agent and I've seen no one else who looks like a top contender and a free agent,
Who would be a viable replacement for any of tinker's players?
Mason played 12 different heroes at TI4
Mason is worse than all of TTs cores and is playing league now.
On November 03 2014 10:10 Faruko wrote: I think Tinker should try to give Singsing their signature heroes and be done with the experimentation, like i said the individual skill of the players its much higher than what they are achieving, they shiould be playing much better
Just give him Ember, Mirana or TA, they are good mid heroes that stay relevant all game with farm, which are pretty much the norm in this meta (even though puck is making a comeback)
Meepo too, and his brew is... not bad at least
Lel, delusional singsing fans, just plaing ember and mirana is not versatile enough for a 6.82 player, especially when mirana is fading out the scene. TA is also very weak with far too many counters.
If C9 didn't want somebody who can only play 2-3 heroes, why do you think Tinker wants the same narrow player?
Because they formed a team with him? I seriously doubt that there is a better western core available to replace Sing; I'd love for Hanni to be a part of this team but he isn't actually a free agent and I've seen no one else who looks like a top contender and a free agent,
Who would be a viable replacement for any of tinker's players?
Mason played 12 different heroes at TI4
Mason is worse than all of TTs cores and is playing league now.
Seriously doubt it, i dont think the guy is a dota 2 god, but pajkatt and qojqva are hardly top tier
they are about the same
albeit since he stoped playing dota 2 he might be worse, but during TI4,...
On November 03 2014 10:10 Faruko wrote: I think Tinker should try to give Singsing their signature heroes and be done with the experimentation, like i said the individual skill of the players its much higher than what they are achieving, they shiould be playing much better
Just give him Ember, Mirana or TA, they are good mid heroes that stay relevant all game with farm, which are pretty much the norm in this meta (even though puck is making a comeback)
Meepo too, and his brew is... not bad at least
Lel, delusional singsing fans, just plaing ember and mirana is not versatile enough for a 6.82 player, especially when mirana is fading out the scene. TA is also very weak with far too many counters.
If C9 didn't want somebody who can only play 2-3 heroes, why do you think Tinker wants the same narrow player?
Because they formed a team with him? I seriously doubt that there is a better western core available to replace Sing; I'd love for Hanni to be a part of this team but he isn't actually a free agent and I've seen no one else who looks like a top contender and a free agent,
Who would be a viable replacement for any of tinker's players?
Mason played 12 different heroes at TI4
Mason fit well into EG at the time of TI4. He was nothing special but I don't see the comparison you are trying to draw.
Or are you saying that mason is top tier and a free agent? In that case i would disagree. Mason doesn't fit well with the style of TT, or rather, doesn't add anything to the style and lack of leadership which TT suffers from.
On November 13 2014 12:28 FHDH wrote: For Sing stream fans, they got Waga in the stack and were getting kinda crushed in lanes due to the usual goofy nonsense. Then at some point Sing decided it was tryhard time because "we can't fucking lose to Greek stack."
Was pretty interesting to hear him actually talking to his teammates/playing like a professional Dota player instead of a big clowny yolo guy. They won pretty comfortably in the end but it was pretty hairy by mid game with the enemy carry being very fed.
Also this happened:
(he lived)
He's still streaming with Waga if that's your kind of thing.
Any youtube vod?
Wasn't up when you first asked, here it is!
I think SingSing should try to draft and captain, see what happens.
I don't know about that. Becoming the drafter/captain requires you to divert a lot of non-practice/compete time to research. I doubt SingSing wants that role, regardless of whether he'd be good at it.
If I remember correctly however, Sing once said that what qojqva said yesterday on his stream: You can't have an ego on a team. Which means that he would do it, if it would be good for the team. Since he doesn't do it in any matches, I guess they tried it in scrims and it didnt work out very well and so they decided not to try it or at least not yet. Because let's be honest: As clowny as Sing can be on his stream 99,9% of the time, the more serious he becomes in an actual match. Thats what everbody said about him.
On November 13 2014 12:28 FHDH wrote: For Sing stream fans, they got Waga in the stack and were getting kinda crushed in lanes due to the usual goofy nonsense. Then at some point Sing decided it was tryhard time because "we can't fucking lose to Greek stack."
Was pretty interesting to hear him actually talking to his teammates/playing like a professional Dota player instead of a big clowny yolo guy. They won pretty comfortably in the end but it was pretty hairy by mid game with the enemy carry being very fed.
Also this happened:
(he lived)
He's still streaming with Waga if that's your kind of thing.
I think SingSing should try to draft and captain, see what happens.
I don't know about that. Becoming the drafter/captain requires you to divert a lot of non-practice/compete time to research. I doubt SingSing wants that role, regardless of whether he'd be good at it.
TY, and I guess it could be like that for Sing. His skills are high, but I guess I can't sat the same about overall draft knowledge. What about his support?
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/JP1Ty0u.jpg)
