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On August 12 2016 17:11 amiGo_O wrote:I mean everybody is saying that Alliance just doesnt work but look at other teams OG - the best team of last year is on the same place Newbee - who looked unstoppable at some point, also 9th-12th Liquid - 2nd on Power Rank, did not do much better than Alliance I think they should kick s4, get Limmp/Chessie and continue playing 
am not sure, are u joking or serious
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On August 12 2016 17:11 amiGo_O wrote:I mean everybody is saying that Alliance just doesnt work but look at other teams OG - the best team of last year is on the same place Newbee - who looked unstoppable at some point, also 9th-12th Liquid - 2nd on Power Rank, did not do much better than Alliance I think they should kick s4, get Limmp/Chessie and continue playing
I agree first part, absolutely disagree with kick s4, who can captain if you kick him? And s4 is like 2 tiers above Limmp/Chessie skill-wise, DON'T TOUCH MY GUSTAV.
The only real swede player who can improve the team is Zai, but i don't think Zai will ever leave EG and honestly, i prefer EGM anyway :p
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Singling out s4 is rather misguided imo. He drafts, he leads a lot of the moves the team makes, you also need that sort of a mid player if Bulldog is playing the offlane. You can't just change him out. Last time he left it wasn't so easy to make things work for Alliance, though granted they had quite a bit of bad luck too with Chessie's injury, people leaving due to them not having a stable 5 with that etc.
This year at least Alliance was in all majors and even had that stretch around new year where they won 2 events. They've shown they can occasionally compete on a very high level but their standard level seems to be around the 9th-12th place. If they stick together I don't expect that to change really but if they enjoy playing and competing together then I don't really see why not. It's not like you can make changes or leave to some other team and automatically be guaranteed to do better, but if the players want to win TI next year imo they should take a risk. Imo s4 is the most likely to leave to an international team but unlike post TI4 it's not easy to see what that team could exactly be. He already tried playing with Puppey&Kuro and apparently didn't want to continue playing with either of them despite quite a bit of success.
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When you say you think they should split up and find better teams, or even retire, you completely disregard that this is TI, and this TI is so damn close between the teams it's crazy. Only 1 of the favourite teams is top 6. One Single Team. No TL, no OG, No newbee... Not even ehome that did so amazingly in the groupstage managed top 3. When the teams are so close that they are, no damn result is a bad one. Ofc it's WORSE than being first, or second and so on, but looking at what teams dropped out early it's crazy to see that DC and EG are in the final 3. Fnatic 4th is an incredible feat by it's own. TNC 7th to 8th as well.
This also netted the team 300k USD, which isn't a chabby prize. It also gave them an amazing week with dota in Seattle. But the competition is so damn high now. I repeat... DC top 3? I can probably count the reasonable and realistic predictions on my two hands that had DC top 3. That is kind of testament to how close teams are right now.
I believe and hope they will stick together. Because they play good dota when they get shit right, and they are good friends... I am sad they didn't go further, but they are by no means a dead team, nor did they "fail miserably" as someone posted.
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On August 14 2016 05:18 lookfirewood wrote:
When you say you think they should split up and find better teams, or even retire, you completely disregard that this is TI, and this TI is so damn close between the teams it's crazy. Only 1 of the favourite teams is top 6. One Single Team. No TL, no OG, No newbee... Not even ehome that did so amazingly in the groupstage managed top 3. When the teams are so close that they are, no damn result is a bad one. Ofc it's WORSE than being first, or second and so on, but looking at what teams dropped out early it's crazy to see that DC and EG are in the final 3. Fnatic 4th is an incredible feat by it's own. TNC 7th to 8th as well.
This also netted the team 300k USD, which isn't a chabby prize. It also gave them an amazing week with dota in Seattle. But the competition is so damn high now. I repeat... DC top 3? I can probably count the reasonable and realistic predictions on my two hands that had DC top 3. That is kind of testament to how close teams are right now.
I believe and hope they will stick together. Because they play good dota when they get shit right, and they are good friends... I am sad they didn't go further, but they are by no means a dead team, nor did they "fail miserably" as someone posted.
100% agree , hope they do stay together but one thing that i think might break it is the commitment from the players , if one or 2 of the playersis doing other things then Dota while the rest are try harding every day it wont work , for some reason i feel like Akke for example is a 9-5 Dota player - i.e does not put 100% of his time into playing Dota on a daily basis (not just for major events) , this for me is the biggest reason why they might end up splitting which is sad , I hope im wrong and they all spam pubs and scrim non stop until the next major .
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On August 14 2016 05:18 lookfirewood wrote:
When you say you think they should split up and find better teams, or even retire, you completely disregard that this is TI, and this TI is so damn close between the teams it's crazy. Only 1 of the favourite teams is top 6. One Single Team. No TL, no OG, No newbee... Not even ehome that did so amazingly in the groupstage managed top 3. When the teams are so close that they are, no damn result is a bad one. Ofc it's WORSE than being first, or second and so on, but looking at what teams dropped out early it's crazy to see that DC and EG are in the final 3. Fnatic 4th is an incredible feat by it's own. TNC 7th to 8th as well.
This also netted the team 300k USD, which isn't a chabby prize. It also gave them an amazing week with dota in Seattle. But the competition is so damn high now. I repeat... DC top 3? I can probably count the reasonable and realistic predictions on my two hands that had DC top 3. That is kind of testament to how close teams are right now.
I believe and hope they will stick together. Because they play good dota when they get shit right, and they are good friends... I am sad they didn't go further, but they are by no means a dead team, nor did they "fail miserably" as someone posted.
Perfect post, i agree with every single word. To that, i'd add that this season, the boys WON 2 major tournaments after all, how many teams can say the same?
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I mean for months or even years it's been clear that they are too much in their comfort zone and stuck in it in terms of playstyle, picking comfort drafts when pressed against the wall (the very last game draft of TI was just such a letdown) time and time again not taking risks and willing to change when it really matters. The 2 tournaments they won happened to fit their style after a change of patch pretty much.
I'm sure this is the main reason why people are saying they should input some new blood into the team, or be forever stuck in mediocrity.
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On August 14 2016 07:42 LemOn wrote:
I mean for months or even years it's been clear that they are too much in their comfort zone and stuck in it in terms of playstyle, picking comfort drafts when pressed against the wall (the very last game draft of TI was just such a letdown) time and time again not taking risks and willing to change when it really matters. The 2 tournaments they won happened to fit their style after a change of patch pretty much.
I'm sure this is the main reason why people are saying they should input some new blood into the team, or be forever stuck in mediocrity.
Only no team at TI is mediocre.
What, suddenly Navi, TL and OG went crap over night? No, competition is extreme.
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hey lemon dont worry. they are just as good as liquid, because they got kicked out by the same team. its all good in alliance land. you really should be careful with stuff like this lemon, or jack_knife will hunt you;)
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 , jesus i hope they won't separate
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While many teams have shown progress over the year, Alliance has been stagnant. You never feel confident in Alliance anymore. You can't say that they should be finishing well in tournaments. You are just hopeful that they decide to show up.
I feel Alliance need some new spark or work on a fresh playstyle. Every time they try a new strat, it feels cheesy. It feels like it will work just once. It's time to up the tempo or something.
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On August 14 2016 05:18 lookfirewood wrote:
When you say you think they should split up and find better teams, or even retire, you completely disregard that this is TI, and this TI is so damn close between the teams it's crazy. Only 1 of the favourite teams is top 6. One Single Team. No TL, no OG, No newbee... Not even ehome that did so amazingly in the groupstage managed top 3. When the teams are so close that they are, no damn result is a bad one. Ofc it's WORSE than being first, or second and so on, but looking at what teams dropped out early it's crazy to see that DC and EG are in the final 3. Fnatic 4th is an incredible feat by it's own. TNC 7th to 8th as well.
This also netted the team 300k USD, which isn't a chabby prize. It also gave them an amazing week with dota in Seattle. But the competition is so damn high now. I repeat... DC top 3? I can probably count the reasonable and realistic predictions on my two hands that had DC top 3. That is kind of testament to how close teams are right now.
I believe and hope they will stick together. Because they play good dota when they get shit right, and they are good friends... I am sad they didn't go further, but they are by no means a dead team, nor did they "fail miserably" as someone posted.
That is losers talk right there. Besides Alliance did poorly in ALL Valve events this year (majors and TI).
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On August 14 2016 08:13 hunter_x wrote:
hey lemon dont worry. they are just as good as liquid, because they got kicked out by the same team. its all good in alliance land. you really should be careful with stuff like this lemon, or jack_knife will hunt you;)
i only hunt you, mate, cuz u consistently bullshitting here. Am done with team Liquid Thread yesterday, but if u want continue, be my guest.
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On August 14 2016 08:13 hunter_x wrote:
hey lemon dont worry. they are just as good as liquid, because they got kicked out by the same team. its all good in alliance land. you really should be careful with stuff like this lemon, or jack_knife will hunt you;)
i think they did better than liquid, they made it to Upper, they won 10x more Lan than liquid. that's big enough 
what if liquid win nothing next year or win 1 lan like this year? disband i guess?? or kky destroy the team with his own hand like b4 he did to secret, to MYM?
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On August 14 2016 15:36 jack_knife wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2016 08:13 hunter_x wrote:
hey lemon dont worry. they are just as good as liquid, because they got kicked out by the same team. its all good in alliance land. you really should be careful with stuff like this lemon, or jack_knife will hunt you;) i think they did better than liquid, they made it to Upper, they won 10x more Lan than liquid. that's big enough what if liquid win nothing next year or win 1 lan like this year? disband i guess?? or kky destroy the team with his own hand like b4 he did to secret, to MYM?
Lol you have a really great guy here alliance fans. Im out have fun.
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On August 14 2016 08:11 lookfirewood wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2016 07:42 LemOn wrote:
I mean for months or even years it's been clear that they are too much in their comfort zone and stuck in it in terms of playstyle, picking comfort drafts when pressed against the wall (the very last game draft of TI was just such a letdown) time and time again not taking risks and willing to change when it really matters. The 2 tournaments they won happened to fit their style after a change of patch pretty much.
I'm sure this is the main reason why people are saying they should input some new blood into the team, or be forever stuck in mediocrity. Only no team at TI is mediocre. What, suddenly Navi, TL and OG went crap over night? No, competition is extreme.
Mediocre for their own standard, I'm talking about last 3years and agree with you that the TI result is a success for them actually. Na'Vi and Liquid have new players and are constantly evolving and learning, OG have been straight up dominating everyone and had 2 weaker BO3 against volatile teams they happened to lose.
Alliance seems to be stuck and didn't really change their playstyle and take risks , even when they do opt to to try new drafts they drop them instantly when pressed against the wall, and I can't see that changing.
This happens when you're too used to your old ways, and getting fresh perspectives and hungry players on the squad has a good chance of rejuvenating the team
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I wish something would happen. They need someone who can draft and lead. I want to see a core of egm/s4/bulldog in another context or something.
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On August 14 2016 08:11 lookfirewood wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2016 07:42 LemOn wrote:
I mean for months or even years it's been clear that they are too much in their comfort zone and stuck in it in terms of playstyle, picking comfort drafts when pressed against the wall (the very last game draft of TI was just such a letdown) time and time again not taking risks and willing to change when it really matters. The 2 tournaments they won happened to fit their style after a change of patch pretty much.
I'm sure this is the main reason why people are saying they should input some new blood into the team, or be forever stuck in mediocrity. Only no team at TI is mediocre. What, suddenly Navi, TL and OG went crap over night? No, competition is extreme.
Yep Navi TI OG didn't turn crap. They played badly in one tournament, that's it. They have been on the up for quite a while.
Alliance have been stagnant. Aside from that 2 lan wins very early on, they have had mediocre placings in recent tournaments. They are not trash, but neither are they good. Be honest with yourself if you were very confident in Alliance doing well in this TI. All the results pointed to a likely average placing. They did indeed exceeded expectations by making into the upper bracket. No shame losing to Ehome and fnatic, both good quality teams.
I think Alliance fans have to stop being delusional and acknowledge where Alliance really is atm.They still have the ability to beat top teams, but it does not mean they are a good team atm. Don't harp on results on one or 2 tournaments. There's no consistency, they are not improving, and they need something fresh or more work to reach the level of a top team again.
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They have tried changing out players, I don't think that will work with this group. Their individual skill isn't very high, it's their familiarity with each other that makes the lineup work every now and then. If they start changing out players then the synergy will be lost and they will be deep in the dumpster again. You could of course argue that they are in the dumpster now
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EPT
