EPTAlliance Discussion - Page 197
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sweatbomb
Sweden469 Posts
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hashaki
Norway210 Posts
That gap isn't there anymore, as this TI is very evident of. S4 has to start respectbanning other teams good heroes, they have to change up how they play. Most notably they have to get better at changing tempo of the game. Alliance is almost always too passive and farming, and often miss their timings when they are ahead and should be pushing/fighting. I really don't know. I think they could still win if they stay together but it will require a major rethinking of their approach to drafting and style of playing. Also, less screwing around in low pubgames and more grinding on their mains just to practice their mechanics and decisionmaking. There's a reason players like RTZ and Miracle for instance make much less mistakes and more memorable plays than S4. Simply because they spend more time in higher level games. But maybe S4 and Alliance lost the drive to be the best and just want to have fun and enjoy themselves. If that is the case they can still make next major, but probably place last again. And to the people saying they can't stay together after this, why not? Their issues aren't team synergy or not gelling as players, it's their overall style of how they want to play dota, and sometimes drafting. That and a lack of grinding games to practice their indivdual mechanics and decisionmaking. | ||
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fajo
18 Posts
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GinNtoniC
Sweden2945 Posts
On August 11 2016 16:34 sweatbomb wrote: People in this thread are hilarious. No way can they stick together after this. They had a looong time to shape up and try to play the meta. They failed miserably. Sticking together after this would just be pathetic. What is funny is how sure of this you are. They've stated time and time again in interviews that they finally feel like these are the players that they want to play with, that these are the players they enjoy spending time with and so on. I'm not saying that they'll definately stay together, but it definately won't be an easy choice. I think s4 and Bulldog are inseperable at this point and so are Loda and Akke. They tried splitting up after TI4 and ever since they got back together they've all expressed how much they missed playing with each other. I wouldn't be surprised if they kept going. | ||
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spacecoke
Sweden112 Posts
To me, it is pretty obvious that Alliance is one of the top teams in terms of individual skill. The problem is that Alliance often neglects the comeback mechanic in the game when they are in control of the tempo. In game 1 against Fnatic: They got tide, ET, mirana, drow and dazzle. With this lineup you want to finish the game ASAP (but in a controlled fashion), especially since Fnatic got Sven. It means that Fnatic are going to play AVOID ALLIANCE until Sven i farmed enough. But instead of hard pushing towers, Alliance chickens out and spread out all over the map, which lets Sven get superfarmed. GG. Game 2: Now Alliance reverse tactics by getting Lifestealer and NP (late game heroes). They put alot of pressure on Fnatic and get a fantastic start. The problem is that S4 does not slow down! Since Fnatic got a "Finish Mid Game"-lineup this is exactly where the comeback mechanic kicks in when S4 dies. And LS and NP don't get the needed time to be able to just roll over Fnatic. | ||
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WakaDoDo
Sweden1183 Posts
Akke not quitting :D | ||
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Zea!
9589 Posts
LONG LIVE ALLIANCE <3 Great Akke interview, always humble, always honest. Other teams played better, that's a fact, turn the page and start again :D | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
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sweatbomb
Sweden469 Posts
On August 11 2016 18:48 GinNtoniC wrote: What is funny is how sure of this you are. They've stated time and time again in interviews that they finally feel like these are the players that they want to play with, that these are the players they enjoy spending time with and so on. I'm not saying that they'll definately stay together, but it definately won't be an easy choice. I think s4 and Bulldog are inseperable at this point and so are Loda and Akke. They tried splitting up after TI4 and ever since they got back together they've all expressed how much they missed playing with each other. I wouldn't be surprised if they kept going. Well ofcourse they can stay together but they would continue to be just mediocre. Is that really what you want when you play a game proffessionally. I still think S4 and EGM (EGM had some sick plays this TI) could do well on a good team at the highest level. The others, not so much. Sure S4 messes up sometimes and feeds but he is also the only Captain that plays mid at this level. | ||
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Deleted User 261926
960 Posts
On August 11 2016 19:31 spacecoke wrote: Analysis To me, it is pretty obvious that Alliance is one of the top teams in terms of individual skill. I really disagree about that except if you're talking about s4. Almost every carry in ti is better than loda I think. | ||
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Deleted User 261926
960 Posts
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GinNtoniC
Sweden2945 Posts
I think that pretty much sums it up. I think most people are going wayyy overboard predicting how they will react to this loss. Most of the Alliance players will probably just take a break, find new motivation and get ready for next season. You have to keep in mind that these guys aren't 19 y/o and arteezy-level-impulsive. | ||
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jack_knife
Germany343 Posts
On August 11 2016 23:37 GinNtoniC wrote: About the Akke interview: I think that pretty much sums it up. I think most people are going wayyy overboard predicting how they will react to this loss. Most of the Alliance players will probably just take a break, find new motivation and get ready for next season. You have to keep in mind that these guys aren't 19 y/o and arteezy-level-impulsive. nah, he just said they won't change role, but they still got a long way to come back. loda, akke, and egm are fine, their core players, s4 and bulldog, they were the best players, but not anymore, they wasted too much time with grill in 5k pub games. the meanwhile miracle, even rtz hit 9k. about rtz, i dont think the fail of secret was on him. he did fine, talk less, work more. | ||
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sunrazgriz
Vatican City State1573 Posts
On August 11 2016 23:25 Karpfen wrote: I really disagree about that except if you're talking about s4. Almost every carry in ti is better than loda I think. yeah right loda is not better than ditya ra  | ||
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GinNtoniC
Sweden2945 Posts
On August 12 2016 00:09 jack_knife wrote: nah, he just said they won't change role, but they still got a long way to come back. loda, akke, and egm are fine, their core players, s4 and bulldog, they were the best players, but not anymore, they wasted too much time with grill in 5k pub games. the meanwhile miracle, even rtz hit 9k. about rtz, i dont think the fail of secret was on him. he did fine, talk less, work more. I'm sorry, but I find myself reading your posts several times and I just don't get your points. | ||
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hunter_x
Germany2762 Posts
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jack_knife
Germany343 Posts
On August 11 2016 16:15 hunter_x wrote: Im really curious what alliance will do now. It's pretty obvious, that the team doesnt work out. They had more then enough time to fix their problems, change things up, or try new stuff. But from what i mostly saw, they were more focused playing Pub games with some girls. Thats not how you win high level games. Dont get me wrong, this is not a hate Post, i really wanted liquid vs alliance in the LB. both team get rekt by fnatic. TI 6 is crazy, not only Alliance, whole EU get rekt so hard. lul | ||
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Zea!
9589 Posts
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spacecoke
Sweden112 Posts
You may think in terms of C_1(t), C_2(t), C_3(t), S_1(t), S_2(t) where C stands for "core" and S for "support", t for time. And then you just maximize over t, i.e. max_t {C_1(t)+C_2(t)+C_3(t)+S_1(t)+S_2(t)} and go for that timing. For example, It seems to me that DC when facing EHOME in the lower bracket, they picked 3 cores+2 supports that are really strong at 30-35 minutes (timber, invoker, naga, et, venge and timber, mirana, void, ogre, sky) and won at that time, both games. So it would be cool to see Alliance with some all-in strategies that they stick to sometimes. It's OK to just type "GG" if the strategy didn't work (i.e. missed timing) IMO. | ||
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amiGo_O
Czech Republic959 Posts
OG - the best team of last year is on the same place Newbee - who looked unstoppable at some point, also 9th-12th Liquid - 2nd on Power Rank, did not do much better than Alliance I think they should kick s4, get Limmp/Chessie and continue playing | ||
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