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Many people are confused by the performances showed by Team Secret feeling even more certain than before that letting Ppy and Kky go was a mistake and hating Xboct more than ever.
What most people fail to remember is that the main issue of the team before splitting was bad drafts and even worse support performances, this last thing being acknowledged even by Puppey in interviews (the movements as he called it). Plus Xboct performing good and bad as he does now. Leaving drafts aside, what the team lacked the most was regularity, both on supports and carries.
It was crystal clear that a change was needed and, given the friendship between parts, the supports had to go (I was against this too but what could we, the fans, do).
Now, let's be clear:
- As far as it goes, the team is performing way better now than a month ago. I would give Dendi 4-6 months more and see how far he can develop his draft.
The C9 game was lost because of a bad turn if you want, one that could have been avoided. You can blame Xboct but we all know he was doing what he does, that is how he gets that "Net worth". Vanskor had a bad game as he also had a brilliant game against EG. Fng had no impact. Funn1k deserves an applause and Dendi on "no Blink Dagger" heroes usually sucks.
- The pillar of Team Secret is Bigdaddy, they won A LOT of games just because of him. His support ability/performance is by far one of the best currently and without him I do not think they would perform as good.
Another thing I feel I must say, NaVi was the best or one of the best but guys the game as any other game is getting grasped more and more, analyzed in depth and all this shared publicly, accessible by a lot of people putting our all-time players on a bad spot as time goes by.
Believe it or not, players grow older, new players arise, more devoted or more addicted or whatever. NaVi will not stay always on top neither will have always the best players. Ups and downs will continue to happen and maybe not now but in a year or two we will be seeing a Tier1 team again.
It is up to you to follow a team, a player or a play style.
Just enjoy watching the game.
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I think that is all beaten to death. And you can agree with your second graf there and still hold the feelings described in the first with no contradiction.
I do think with current roles staying consistent the team should improve significantly given no internal drama. I just don't know if they will be able to catch up to the top teams, some of whom are as turned-over or more than Na'Vi and are much stronger now than Na'Vi is. They too will grow. But we were locked into this fate once roster changes were made.
If witches and sluts were candies and nuts we'd have had Dendi mid, Funn1k off, Kuroky carry, Puppey and Vanskor support. This seems well within the realm of possibility and a strong team, barring the speculation that Dendi would leave with XBOCT. But that's basically fan fiction at this point. Shit why not put n0tail at support instead of Vanskor, and replace Funn1k with Universe.
None of it matters honestly but it's fine to have feelings that the roster changes were wrong. I for one do not think they are misplaced.
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People are just using this thread to spit their hate out of frustration and yell "fire this guy or this guy" "Hvost is the worst player ever" etc... This is getting completely retarded and in no way relevant. Actually most of the time when I see someone spamming hate toward a player, I know that they dont have a clue about what a competitive dota team is.
Whatever, what I will remember from this starladder is that Navi got top 6 (same place as the well beloved team tinker), took a map off EG (something which had not happen for at least 8 months). In the end they lost in a terrible fashion with an awful draft (you can't fucking trade or do something without any stun they're just tping out) in a bo1.
What they need to be a consistent T1 team again is a better captain / drafter, more discipline, solid gameplan. Because this is what they are lacking right now. The game they won against EG showed how good they can be when they are not dicking around but following a clear strategy in a beautiful draft.
So keep spamming your hate, show how uneducated you are, but individual skill aren't part of why navi isn't doing so good right now. When you witness some weird / awful moves from player it's often more about bad communication / team coordination than "OMG this guy must be 3k MMR".
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lol
Calling everyone ignorant and then blaming drafts. How many highly-knowledgeable people said Na'Vi's draft was overwhelmingly superior in their game against Secret when they got destroyed. AFTER the game was over saying their draft was far better, not just before.
Maybe* people have actually more complex and informed opinions than you have expressed and still find a lot of room to blame individuals for performance.
*definitely
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On October 26 2014 08:50 FHDH wrote:
lol
Calling everyone ignorant and then blaming drafts. How many highly-knowledgeable people said Na'Vi's draft was overwhelmingly superior in their game against Secret when they got destroyed. AFTER the game was over saying their draft was far better, not just before.
Maybe* people have actually more complex and informed opinions than you have expressed and still find a lot of room to blame individuals for performance.
*definitely
I've no clue what the secret game has to do with my post.
And if you think that Dota is mostly made of individual play, and that's how you judge a team, well I don't have much more to say.
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On October 26 2014 09:05 Gevna wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2014 08:50 FHDH wrote:
lol
Calling everyone ignorant and then blaming drafts. How many highly-knowledgeable people said Na'Vi's draft was overwhelmingly superior in their game against Secret when they got destroyed. AFTER the game was over saying their draft was far better, not just before.
Maybe* people have actually more complex and informed opinions than you have expressed and still find a lot of room to blame individuals for performance.
*definitely I've no clue what the secret game has to do with my post. And if you think that Dota is mostly made of individual play, and that's how you judge a team, well I don't have much more to say.
Actually not worth engaging with.
You drop into a discussion where a lot of people including myself are discussing interlocking issues including individual performance and say "ur all dum" in about 20x as many words. High five.
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I wonder why Na'Vi didn't get Goblak? He seems like someone that if he actually had a team of skilled players, his crazy drafts could work a lot more.
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United States13143 Posts
On October 26 2014 09:14 Procake wrote:
I wonder why Na'Vi didn't get Goblak? He seems like someone that if he actually had a team of skilled players, his crazy drafts could work a lot more.
From the sounds of it, Goblak wanted to make a team with his buddies.
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I think the situation is not so bad:
yes, lately Na'vi is not winning tournaments, but in every tournament they are playing, they reach at least position 5-8. And they are improving; if you check the timeline, they had a very bad pre-TI season, then they positioned 7-8 at TI4, but if you remember they were just lucky to enter the finals, thanks to direct matches results in group stage.
After the team roster changes they kept the 5-8 position results, and finally in starladder X they'll score 5-6 position, but playing in the winners bracket, and i have not seen na'vi in the winners braket in 8-10 months at least... so let's just give them some time, and let's see what happens.
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On October 26 2014 16:57 Alcor wrote:
I think the situation is not so bad:
yes, lately Na'vi is not winning tournaments, but in every tournament they are playing, they reach at least position 5-8. And they are improving; if you check the timeline, they had a very bad pre-TI season, then they positioned 7-8 at TI4, but if you remember they were just lucky to enter the finals, thanks to direct matches results in group stage.
After the team roster changes they kept the 5-8 position results, and finally in starladder X they'll score 5-6 position, but playing in the winners bracket, and i have not seen na'vi in the winners braket in 8-10 months at least... so let's just give them some time, and let's see what happens.
except that when they place 7-8 or 5-6 position .. there is only like 5-8 teams in that tournament which is not really good either
I don't have high hopes for the team this time but maybe they'll be like empire like last year with all the aggression. Lets see.
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On October 26 2014 08:16 FHDH wrote:
I think that is all beaten to death. And you can agree with your second graf there and still hold the feelings described in the first with no contradiction.
I do think with current roles staying consistent the team should improve significantly given no internal drama. I just don't know if they will be able to catch up to the top teams, some of whom are as turned-over or more than Na'Vi and are much stronger now than Na'Vi is. They too will grow. But we were locked into this fate once roster changes were made.
If witches and sluts were candies and nuts we'd have had Dendi mid, Funn1k off, Kuroky carry, Puppey and Vanskor support. This seems well within the realm of possibility and a strong team, barring the speculation that Dendi would leave with XBOCT. But that's basically fan fiction at this point. Shit why not put n0tail at support instead of Vanskor, and replace Funn1k with Universe.
None of it matters honestly but it's fine to have feelings that the roster changes were wrong. I for one do not think they are misplaced.
I feel you man, I also think the roster change was wrong. Things are the way they are. I already accepted it and now I am hoping for the best, sooner or later.
On October 26 2014 17:31 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2014 16:57 Alcor wrote:
I think the situation is not so bad:
yes, lately Na'vi is not winning tournaments, but in every tournament they are playing, they reach at least position 5-8. And they are improving; if you check the timeline, they had a very bad pre-TI season, then they positioned 7-8 at TI4, but if you remember they were just lucky to enter the finals, thanks to direct matches results in group stage.
After the team roster changes they kept the 5-8 position results, and finally in starladder X they'll score 5-6 position, but playing in the winners bracket, and i have not seen na'vi in the winners braket in 8-10 months at least... so let's just give them some time, and let's see what happens.
except that when they place 7-8 or 5-6 position .. there is only like 5-8 teams in that tournament which is not really good either I don't have high hopes for the team this time but maybe they'll be like empire like last year with all the aggression. Lets see.
You fail to remember that to reach this stage in tournaments you have first to get passed group stages, so Na'Vi places 5-6/7-8 in a 50ish teams pool.
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Na'Vi lost in a Bo1 bracket. If the game against EG was the same EG would have lost, outrageous. Also, Alliance, yes the [A] which sucks lately, beat Team Tinker in a Bo1 and TT is far better than [A] at least currently. Just chill and think about this as experience.
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I still believe Fng was the wrong pickup. Despite fitting the traditionally aggressive Na'Vi stance, I simply don't think he's good enough. And he doesn't seem like the kind of guys everyone can gather around and trust like Puppey used to be.
Dendi is still top 3 mid in the western scene, Funn1k still easily top-5 (would put Univese/Qojqva ahead at the moment, and probably Bone7/Simbaa too). Xboct I've never been a fan of but at least he's a farming monster, and fits the playstyle. And Vanskor is super talented and imo one of the best possible replacements for Kky (though he plays more of a position 4 support it seems).
Fng though, still not sold.
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On October 26 2014 17:56 Racket wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2014 17:31 goody153 wrote:On October 26 2014 16:57 Alcor wrote:
I think the situation is not so bad:
yes, lately Na'vi is not winning tournaments, but in every tournament they are playing, they reach at least position 5-8. And they are improving; if you check the timeline, they had a very bad pre-TI season, then they positioned 7-8 at TI4, but if you remember they were just lucky to enter the finals, thanks to direct matches results in group stage.
After the team roster changes they kept the 5-8 position results, and finally in starladder X they'll score 5-6 position, but playing in the winners bracket, and i have not seen na'vi in the winners braket in 8-10 months at least... so let's just give them some time, and let's see what happens.
except that when they place 7-8 or 5-6 position .. there is only like 5-8 teams in that tournament which is not really good either I don't have high hopes for the team this time but maybe they'll be like empire like last year with all the aggression. Lets see. You fail to remember that to reach this stage in tournaments you have first to get passed group stages, so Na'Vi places 5-6/7-8 in a 50ish teams pool.
Of course it's sort of a package deal to be considered a T1 team to beat most of the teams that participate in a group stage. Being better than average.
However if we are talking about being back to being one of the best out of the T1 team like pre-TI4 era then they are not doing fine.
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On October 26 2014 18:05 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2014 17:56 Racket wrote:On October 26 2014 17:31 goody153 wrote:On October 26 2014 16:57 Alcor wrote:
I think the situation is not so bad:
yes, lately Na'vi is not winning tournaments, but in every tournament they are playing, they reach at least position 5-8. And they are improving; if you check the timeline, they had a very bad pre-TI season, then they positioned 7-8 at TI4, but if you remember they were just lucky to enter the finals, thanks to direct matches results in group stage.
After the team roster changes they kept the 5-8 position results, and finally in starladder X they'll score 5-6 position, but playing in the winners bracket, and i have not seen na'vi in the winners braket in 8-10 months at least... so let's just give them some time, and let's see what happens.
except that when they place 7-8 or 5-6 position .. there is only like 5-8 teams in that tournament which is not really good either I don't have high hopes for the team this time but maybe they'll be like empire like last year with all the aggression. Lets see. You fail to remember that to reach this stage in tournaments you have first to get passed group stages, so Na'Vi places 5-6/7-8 in a 50ish teams pool. Of course it's sort of a package deal to be considered a T1 team to beat most of the teams that participate in a group stage. Being better than average. However if we are talking about being back to being one of the best out of the T1 team like pre-TI4 era then they are not doing fine.
They are not doing fine, that's for sure. They are doing better than a month ago.
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On October 26 2014 18:05 goody153 wrote:
Of course it's sort of a package deal to be considered a T1 team to beat most of the teams that participate in a group stage. Being better than average.
However if we are talking about being back to being one of the best out of the T1 team like pre-TI4 era then they are not doing fine.
and, imho, that's the point. how many teams are considered tier 1 nowadays?
how many there were 2 years ago?
game is growing so rapidly, that you can't consider tier 1 just the first and second position of a tournament... think about whathever sport you like: how many teams are considered tier 1? 2-3 in a League of 20 teams?
dota has FINALS with 8-16 teams, and to reach the finals you need to be at least a "tier 1.5", i dont think a team that constantly reaches minimum position 8 has to be be considered tier 2 in this moment, and this is true for all the teams, not just na'vi...
i think that na'vi atm is "just" lacking the steadiness necessary in a lan final, not the skill to reach 1st place. You need a very steady drafting phase to have a chance of winning a tournament's lan final, and in the last 4 months na'vi's situation was:
- fng couldn't get a steady draft quality, and in a bo3 that's not acceptable
- now you have dendi drafting, (and it's just 2 weeks that he does it); he always said that he doesn't want to draft, probably because he doesn't feel comfortable with.
just give Dendi some time, or give Na'vi the time needed to decide who will be the team's drafter, and results will come...
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On October 26 2014 19:04 Racket wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2014 18:05 goody153 wrote:On October 26 2014 17:56 Racket wrote:On October 26 2014 17:31 goody153 wrote:On October 26 2014 16:57 Alcor wrote:
I think the situation is not so bad:
yes, lately Na'vi is not winning tournaments, but in every tournament they are playing, they reach at least position 5-8. And they are improving; if you check the timeline, they had a very bad pre-TI season, then they positioned 7-8 at TI4, but if you remember they were just lucky to enter the finals, thanks to direct matches results in group stage.
After the team roster changes they kept the 5-8 position results, and finally in starladder X they'll score 5-6 position, but playing in the winners bracket, and i have not seen na'vi in the winners braket in 8-10 months at least... so let's just give them some time, and let's see what happens.
except that when they place 7-8 or 5-6 position .. there is only like 5-8 teams in that tournament which is not really good either I don't have high hopes for the team this time but maybe they'll be like empire like last year with all the aggression. Lets see. You fail to remember that to reach this stage in tournaments you have first to get passed group stages, so Na'Vi places 5-6/7-8 in a 50ish teams pool. Of course it's sort of a package deal to be considered a T1 team to beat most of the teams that participate in a group stage. Being better than average. However if we are talking about being back to being one of the best out of the T1 team like pre-TI4 era then they are not doing fine. They are not doing fine, that's for sure. They are doing better than a month ago.
Yeah they are still doing better. I actually like how they were doing after they reformed as a team. So much aggression i thought they were going to take the scene like a storm again.
On October 26 2014 19:13 Alcor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2014 18:05 goody153 wrote:
Of course it's sort of a package deal to be considered a T1 team to beat most of the teams that participate in a group stage. Being better than average.
However if we are talking about being back to being one of the best out of the T1 team like pre-TI4 era then they are not doing fine. and, imho, that's the point. how many teams are considered tier 1 nowadays? how many there were 2 years ago? game is growing so rapidly, that you can't consider tier 1 just the first and second position of a tournament... think about whathever sport you like: how many teams are considered tier 1? 2-3 in a League of 20 teams? dota has FINALS with 8-16 teams, and to reach the finals you need to be at least a "tier 1.5", i dont think a team that constantly reaches minimum position 8 has to be be considered tier 2 in this moment, and this is true for all the teams, not just na'vi... i think that na'vi atm is "just" lacking the steadiness necessary in a lan final, not the skill to reach 1st place. You need a very steady drafting phase to have a chance of winning a tournament's lan final, and in the last 4 months na'vi's situation was: - fng couldn't get a steady draft quality, and in a bo3 that's not acceptable - now you have dendi drafting, (and it's just 2 weeks that he does it); he always said that he doesn't want to draft, probably because he doesn't feel comfortable with. just give Dendi some time, or give Na'vi the time needed to decide who will be the team's drafter, and results will come...
I'm not saying na'vi is T2 .. They are T1(means one of the best in the west) for sure but not good enough to be same with C9/Secret/EG level at least not yet if they are gonna improve later on.
They are not stable currently whether it be lan or online . And dota is not a individual based game so it's not dendi to step up but the entire team isntead and it also looks like dendi is not shining cause he is not playing those playmaking heroes like usual.
Also nowadays dendi isn't exactly one of the best mids anymore. I'd put fata/s4/rtz above him but of course we can't tell who is the best mid with all the other the other factors. I'd say he's still a very good player but i guess it's more about the team.
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On October 26 2014 19:13 Alcor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2014 18:05 goody153 wrote:
Of course it's sort of a package deal to be considered a T1 team to beat most of the teams that participate in a group stage. Being better than average.
However if we are talking about being back to being one of the best out of the T1 team like pre-TI4 era then they are not doing fine. and, imho, that's the point. how many teams are considered tier 1 nowadays? how many there were 2 years ago? game is growing so rapidly, that you can't consider tier 1 just the first and second position of a tournament... think about whathever sport you like: how many teams are considered tier 1? 2-3 in a League of 20 teams? dota has FINALS with 8-16 teams, and to reach the finals you need to be at least a "tier 1.5", i dont think a team that constantly reaches minimum position 8 has to be be considered tier 2 in this moment, and this is true for all the teams, not just na'vi... i think that na'vi atm is "just" lacking the steadiness necessary in a lan final, not the skill to reach 1st place. You need a very steady drafting phase to have a chance of winning a tournament's lan final, and in the last 4 months na'vi's situation was: - fng couldn't get a steady draft quality, and in a bo3 that's not acceptable - now you have dendi drafting, (and it's just 2 weeks that he does it); he always said that he doesn't want to draft, probably because he doesn't feel comfortable with. just give Dendi some time, or give Na'vi the time needed to decide who will be the team's drafter, and results will come...
Almost all this. Even the panelists were amused by Execration, they put up to Team Secret.
Many teams are rising and fighting on almost equal footing with old monsters, the scene is getting more and more stable. Teams are copying each others draft and ideas, Dendi picked Pudge and then you saw him banned every game after that one.
The game against Team Secret ended 3.30 as much as it could end 35.30, they got 2 or 3 fights going their way and snowballed so hard after that, but the actual draft was quite balanced.
On October 26 2014 20:19 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2014 19:04 Racket wrote:On October 26 2014 18:05 goody153 wrote:On October 26 2014 17:56 Racket wrote:On October 26 2014 17:31 goody153 wrote:On October 26 2014 16:57 Alcor wrote:
I think the situation is not so bad:
yes, lately Na'vi is not winning tournaments, but in every tournament they are playing, they reach at least position 5-8. And they are improving; if you check the timeline, they had a very bad pre-TI season, then they positioned 7-8 at TI4, but if you remember they were just lucky to enter the finals, thanks to direct matches results in group stage.
After the team roster changes they kept the 5-8 position results, and finally in starladder X they'll score 5-6 position, but playing in the winners bracket, and i have not seen na'vi in the winners braket in 8-10 months at least... so let's just give them some time, and let's see what happens.
except that when they place 7-8 or 5-6 position .. there is only like 5-8 teams in that tournament which is not really good either I don't have high hopes for the team this time but maybe they'll be like empire like last year with all the aggression. Lets see. You fail to remember that to reach this stage in tournaments you have first to get passed group stages, so Na'Vi places 5-6/7-8 in a 50ish teams pool. Of course it's sort of a package deal to be considered a T1 team to beat most of the teams that participate in a group stage. Being better than average. However if we are talking about being back to being one of the best out of the T1 team like pre-TI4 era then they are not doing fine. They are not doing fine, that's for sure. They are doing better than a month ago. Yeah they are still doing better. I actually like how they were doing after they reformed as a team. So much aggression i thought they were going to take the scene like a storm again.
Yea well, I didn't expect them to storm anything but I hoped it would go better. As long as they keep improving I am happy, even Xboct is doing "better", the amount of pick ups on him are reduced each game and his farm is getting big.
I hope Fng will do better, with Bane he didn't do well, but again Bane and Io are both Vanskors, I expected Treant Protector for Fng that game.
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Execration isn't that bad as many would think. They can go equal footing with the best teams in SEA. And even Team malaysia could beat some of the T1 chinese teams.
On October 26 2014 20:54 Racket wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2014 20:19 goody153 wrote:On October 26 2014 19:04 Racket wrote:On October 26 2014 18:05 goody153 wrote:On October 26 2014 17:56 Racket wrote:On October 26 2014 17:31 goody153 wrote:On October 26 2014 16:57 Alcor wrote:
I think the situation is not so bad:
yes, lately Na'vi is not winning tournaments, but in every tournament they are playing, they reach at least position 5-8. And they are improving; if you check the timeline, they had a very bad pre-TI season, then they positioned 7-8 at TI4, but if you remember they were just lucky to enter the finals, thanks to direct matches results in group stage.
After the team roster changes they kept the 5-8 position results, and finally in starladder X they'll score 5-6 position, but playing in the winners bracket, and i have not seen na'vi in the winners braket in 8-10 months at least... so let's just give them some time, and let's see what happens.
except that when they place 7-8 or 5-6 position .. there is only like 5-8 teams in that tournament which is not really good either I don't have high hopes for the team this time but maybe they'll be like empire like last year with all the aggression. Lets see. You fail to remember that to reach this stage in tournaments you have first to get passed group stages, so Na'Vi places 5-6/7-8 in a 50ish teams pool. Of course it's sort of a package deal to be considered a T1 team to beat most of the teams that participate in a group stage. Being better than average. However if we are talking about being back to being one of the best out of the T1 team like pre-TI4 era then they are not doing fine. They are not doing fine, that's for sure. They are doing better than a month ago. Yeah they are still doing better. I actually like how they were doing after they reformed as a team. So much aggression i thought they were going to take the scene like a storm again. Yea well, I didn't expect them to storm anything but I hoped it would go better. As long as they keep improving I am happy, even Xboct is doing "better", the amount of pick ups on him are reduced each game and his farm is getting big. I hope Fng will do better, with Bane he didn't do well, but again Bane and Io are both Vanskors, I expected Treant Protector for Fng that game.
I know this is an age old debate but i don't really like xboct as navi's carry. He does questionable things too much there are other carries can also farm as fast or faster than xboct but doesn't do those shit.
I wonder if he fits as offlane more than a carry role.
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On October 26 2014 20:19 goody153 wrote:
Also nowadays dendi isn't exactly one of the best mids anymore. I'd put fata/s4/rtz above him but of course we can't tell who is the best mid with all the other the other factors. I'd say he's still a very good player but i guess it's more about the team.
He still wins his lane like 3/4 of the time, which in these days of very farming-oriented mids is a pretty good skill toi have.
s4 and rtz look better right now but the fact they're playing in such solid, consistent teams is also helping. s4 didn't look nearly as good during the first half of the year when Alliance were doing so-so.
What I mean is individual player performances often seem to be heavily influenced by an overall team's synergy. And right now Na'Vi's looks pretty meh.
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On October 26 2014 07:57 Racket wrote:
Many people are confused by the performances showed by Team Secret feeling even more certain than before that letting Ppy and Kky go was a mistake and hating Xboct more than ever.
What most people fail to remember is that the main issue of the team before splitting was bad drafts and even worse support performances, this last thing being acknowledged even by Puppey in interviews (the movements as he called it). Plus Xboct performing good and bad as he does now. Leaving drafts aside, what the team lacked the most was regularity, both on supports and carries.
It was crystal clear that a change was needed and, given the friendship between parts, the supports had to go (I was against this too but what could we, the fans, do).
Now, let's be clear:
- As far as it goes, the team is performing way better now than a month ago. I would give Dendi 4-6 months more and see how far he can develop his draft.
The C9 game was lost because of a bad turn if you want, one that could have been avoided. You can blame Xboct but we all know he was doing what he does, that is how he gets that "Net worth". Vanskor had a bad game as he also had a brilliant game against EG. Fng had no impact. Funn1k deserves an applause and Dendi on "no Blink Dagger" heroes usually sucks.
- The pillar of Team Secret is Bigdaddy, they won A LOT of games just because of him. His support ability/performance is by far one of the best currently and without him I do not think they would perform as good.
Another thing I feel I must say, NaVi was the best or one of the best but guys the game as any other game is getting grasped more and more, analyzed in depth and all this shared publicly, accessible by a lot of people putting our all-time players on a bad spot as time goes by.
Believe it or not, players grow older, new players arise, more devoted or more addicted or whatever. NaVi will not stay always on top neither will have always the best players. Ups and downs will continue to happen and maybe not now but in a year or two we will be seeing a Tier1 team again.
It is up to you to follow a team, a player or a play style.
Just enjoy watching the game.
Yeah Puppey wasn't drafting well pre-TI for Navi but putting the blame purely on supports is so unfair. The whole team was not performing well individually at that time except for Funn1k. Hell Funn1k was the only one carrying Navi so hard pre-TI and half the time Dendi when he performs.
And you putting Secret's recent success purely on N0tail is also really unfair. I am a really big N0tail (and Fnatic T.T) fan and of course I won't deny he contributed a lot to Secret's success but saying that u don't think they would perform as good without him is seriously unfair. U completely neglected the performance of other players. It's just like saying Navi in the past without Xboct would still be as good of a team as a team with Funn1k and Dendi in it are bound to be good.
Especially denying that Kuroky is performing way better than Xboct, I can not agree.
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EPT
