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On January 18 2016 13:19 Chewbacca. wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2016 13:12 Acritter wrote:On January 18 2016 12:00 Chewbacca. wrote:
I'll never understand the obsession with having to say GG in video games, and if not then you're a childish, BM, asshole. At this point, with it being said so much and it being expected to be said, it is meaningless. Same purpose as saying please or thank you or whatever else. Good manners just make everything go smoother. It's not like it's difficult to do. I don't really see saying please/thank you as the same thing as saying gg. I say please when I'm trying to get someone to do something for me. I say thank you when I'm pleased that someone did something for me. One of these is a tool to get what I want, and one is me being legitimately happy that something was done for me. Saying gg after every game is just being false to satisfy the communities desire.
ya holden caulfield life or some shit
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On January 18 2016 13:19 Chewbacca. wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2016 13:12 Acritter wrote:On January 18 2016 12:00 Chewbacca. wrote:
I'll never understand the obsession with having to say GG in video games, and if not then you're a childish, BM, asshole. At this point, with it being said so much and it being expected to be said, it is meaningless. Same purpose as saying please or thank you or whatever else. Good manners just make everything go smoother. It's not like it's difficult to do. I don't really see saying please/thank you as the same thing as saying gg. I say please when I'm trying to get someone to do something for me. I say thank you when I'm pleased that someone did something for me. One of these is a tool to get what I want, and one is me being legitimately happy that something was done for me. Saying gg after every game is just being false to satisfy the communities desire.
For most people, politeness isn't just about getting things they want or expressing themselves, it's about knowing that other people are human beings with choices and desires and so on that are just as important as yours, and showing them respect in that.
If you don't care about showing respect to people you're not going to get anything from, that's up to you. Being polite online isn't the biggest thing in the world. But it's also not false or illogical.
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On January 18 2016 13:00 MaZza[KIS] wrote:
When the switch happened, namely RTZ -> AUI, I was very supprotive. However, the patch is showing that perhaps losing Aui is not good. EG will suffer in this meta not having a good chen player. With someone like alliance you need to be able to ban Furion and LD and then pick up Chen first pick. Otherwise, if you give up either of those 3 alliance has players that are godlike on those heroes. This goes back to when if eitehr Akke got enchant/chen or bulldog got Furion the game was over. S4 will do S4 things (mostly pick up amazing runes and either draw or win mid) and it really doesnt matter what Loda does as long as he doesn't feed (which he's reasonably good at). EGM is also perfect in supporting these 4. Can't think of a better fit... This team just works... EG on the other hand, their players don't fit this patch at all. They will not win. RTZ tweet, as rude as it might be, is 100% spot on.
yeah i think you're right.
now it's back to mid being tempo controller and offlane having descent farm to serve as the 2nd core.
both sumail / rtz play farming mids and EG's hero pool has severe limitations, to list a few:
1. nobody plays chen, hero of akke (fear could, but I've not seen it)
2. nobody plays rubick / wisp, hero of egm
3. nobody plays prophet / druid (only rtz played druid, but i don't think he's bulldog level druid)
well that's a lot of bans EG needs to worry about. $4 is god tier so he can play pretty much anything, and loda can just play some safe and steady carry and pretty much don't make mistakes and be O.K.
With the jungle stack nerf and EG's natural greed this patch is going to be hard. Offlane got buffed so much (did you see bulldog offlane druid and also farming the jungle in offlane?) that EG's style of putting universe the tempo controller in offlane is no longer viable. Mid is going to get online faster as a tempo controller and at the same time offlane 2nd core can still get very farmed.
All in all EG has some severe hero pool limitations that gets exposed this patch
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oh on sumail vs $4 mid (qop vs puck)
cmon guys puck is gonna win all the time lol... what can a QoP do, she won't be able to land a single spell.
meanwhile the team is getting busy shutting down bulldog's insanity offlane Sumail gets no recovery farm nor help mid. Gets rekt and feed 3x because his aggro style only works if he's rich but now he's poor. Honestly when Sumail was going for that bounty rune in the river I kept saying "okay he's dead" and sure it was too aggro and he died.
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On January 18 2016 19:05 evanthebouncy! wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2016 13:00 MaZza[KIS] wrote:
When the switch happened, namely RTZ -> AUI, I was very supprotive. However, the patch is showing that perhaps losing Aui is not good. EG will suffer in this meta not having a good chen player. With someone like alliance you need to be able to ban Furion and LD and then pick up Chen first pick. Otherwise, if you give up either of those 3 alliance has players that are godlike on those heroes. This goes back to when if eitehr Akke got enchant/chen or bulldog got Furion the game was over. S4 will do S4 things (mostly pick up amazing runes and either draw or win mid) and it really doesnt matter what Loda does as long as he doesn't feed (which he's reasonably good at). EGM is also perfect in supporting these 4. Can't think of a better fit... This team just works... EG on the other hand, their players don't fit this patch at all. They will not win. RTZ tweet, as rude as it might be, is 100% spot on. yeah i think you're right. now it's back to mid being tempo controller and offlane having descent farm to serve as the 2nd core. both sumail / rtz play farming mids and EG's hero pool has severe limitations, to list a few: 1. nobody plays chen, hero of akke (fear could, but I've not seen it) 2. nobody plays rubick / wisp, hero of egm 3. nobody plays prophet / druid (only rtz played druid, but i don't think he's bulldog level druid) well that's a lot of bans EG needs to worry about. $4 is god tier so he can play pretty much anything, and loda can just play some safe and steady carry and pretty much don't make mistakes and be O.K. With the jungle stack nerf and EG's natural greed this patch is going to be hard. Offlane got buffed so much (did you see bulldog offlane druid and also farming the jungle in offlane?) that EG's style of putting universe the tempo controller in offlane is no longer viable. Mid is going to get online faster as a tempo controller and at the same time offlane 2nd core can still get very farmed. All in all EG has some severe hero pool limitations that gets exposed this patch
With this text it sounds like EG got stomped whole tourney and ended outside of the prizepool 
You have some good points about the meta and how it has shifted, but I dont think EG is going to have such a big problem with it. As ppd said before starladder, they have a rather good idea of how to play this patch, but only in a couple more weeks I think they gonna be ready to win a tournament.
Fear can 100% play rubick, he can be "kky tier" on that guy if he wants. I am rather sure ive seen fear play atleast Chen before, atleast he should practice it, and ench for that matter. Same goes for IO, eg needs a IO player, you might only play it in 2 of 100 games, but you need to have it in your arsenal!
Other that that, I think they are fine, rtz, sumail and universe all have large hero pools, and are all top10 mechanically skilled players in the world (yes, this i my opinion ) and should have no problem learning new ones.
Alliance outplayed EG in a bo3, it happends, next time eg will draft and play better!
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On January 18 2016 19:08 evanthebouncy! wrote:
oh on sumail vs $4 mid (qop vs puck)
cmon guys puck is gonna win all the time lol... what can a QoP do, she won't be able to land a single spell.
meanwhile the team is getting busy shutting down bulldog's insanity offlane Sumail gets no recovery farm nor help mid. Gets rekt and feed 3x because his aggro style only works if he's rich but now he's poor. Honestly when Sumail was going for that bounty rune in the river I kept saying "okay he's dead" and sure it was too aggro and he died.
so true, eg should have done more to block off bulldogs pulling... blocked of camps etc.
Maybe eg could play 2 vrs 1 both on top and mid, would secure qop both lvls and some farm while being safe?
Edit: PS: the fb on Universe was also a big thing in the first game, he saw them coming for like 10 seconds before they reached him, he got 2 greedy and should have just backed off!
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On January 18 2016 19:20 Atoissen wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2016 19:05 evanthebouncy! wrote:On January 18 2016 13:00 MaZza[KIS] wrote:
When the switch happened, namely RTZ -> AUI, I was very supprotive. However, the patch is showing that perhaps losing Aui is not good. EG will suffer in this meta not having a good chen player. With someone like alliance you need to be able to ban Furion and LD and then pick up Chen first pick. Otherwise, if you give up either of those 3 alliance has players that are godlike on those heroes. This goes back to when if eitehr Akke got enchant/chen or bulldog got Furion the game was over. S4 will do S4 things (mostly pick up amazing runes and either draw or win mid) and it really doesnt matter what Loda does as long as he doesn't feed (which he's reasonably good at). EGM is also perfect in supporting these 4. Can't think of a better fit... This team just works... EG on the other hand, their players don't fit this patch at all. They will not win. RTZ tweet, as rude as it might be, is 100% spot on. yeah i think you're right. now it's back to mid being tempo controller and offlane having descent farm to serve as the 2nd core. both sumail / rtz play farming mids and EG's hero pool has severe limitations, to list a few: 1. nobody plays chen, hero of akke (fear could, but I've not seen it) 2. nobody plays rubick / wisp, hero of egm 3. nobody plays prophet / druid (only rtz played druid, but i don't think he's bulldog level druid) well that's a lot of bans EG needs to worry about. $4 is god tier so he can play pretty much anything, and loda can just play some safe and steady carry and pretty much don't make mistakes and be O.K. With the jungle stack nerf and EG's natural greed this patch is going to be hard. Offlane got buffed so much (did you see bulldog offlane druid and also farming the jungle in offlane?) that EG's style of putting universe the tempo controller in offlane is no longer viable. Mid is going to get online faster as a tempo controller and at the same time offlane 2nd core can still get very farmed. All in all EG has some severe hero pool limitations that gets exposed this patch With this text it sounds like EG got stomped whole tourney and ended outside of the prizepool You have some good points about the meta and how it has shifted, but I dont think EG is going to have such a big problem with it. As ppd said before starladder, they have a rather good idea of how to play this patch, but only in a couple more weeks I think they gonna be ready to win a tournament. Fear can 100% play rubick, he can be "kky tier" on that guy if he wants. I am rather sure ive seen fear play atleast Chen before, atleast he should practice it, and ench for that matter. Same goes for IO, eg needs a IO player, you might only play it in 2 of 100 games, but you need to have it in your arsenal! Other that that, I think they are fine, rtz, sumail and universe all have large hero pools, and are all top10 mechanically skilled players in the world (yes, this i my opinion ) and should have no problem learning new ones. Alliance outplayed EG in a bo3, it happends, next time eg will draft and play better!
Fear can be kky tier if rubick if he wants? Lol i had a good laugh dude. You dont just want to be good on a hero like that, and then it happens. You got to have a lot of experience playing it. Same with chen....thats fanboyism at its finest
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I'm not so sure Fear would be on the level of Kuroky, fy, and EGM playing Rubick. I've never really seen Fear as being great with heroes who need fast fingers. He more often plays heroes with relatively long cooldowns and not a ton of spells. What he excels in is picking the right time to use all of those spells, similar to Universe. For example, this tournament his WD wrecked, and that's a mechanically simple hero to play. The reason his was so good is because he's got enough game experience to Cask and Ward at the perfect moment, making those simple spells do more work than usual. But he's not so good at the ones that require split-second timing.
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The QoP vs Puck wasn't exactly fair, Akke came to help s4 and canceled Sumail's salve and went behind the tower later to try and kill him. Sure Sumail got the kill in the end but he used all his regen as far as I recall and s4 was completely alone on the lane for quite a while unless I'm mistaken.
I seem to have some vague memories of Fear playing quite a bit of Rubick back when he was a support the last time on EG. That was a few years ago already though, but I don't know if that is a hero that you absolutely have to play. I think Chen and Wisp are far more useful drafting wise to have in your arsenal. Fear also has a pretty decent amount of Chen games from the time he was a support a few years back but I can't really recall how good he was. Though EG as a whole wasn't that strong at that point.
Interesting to see how the picks develop for EG and some other teams as the patch matures.
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On January 18 2016 20:24 Acritter wrote:
I'm not so sure Fear would be on the level of Kuroky, fy, and EGM playing Rubick. I've never really seen Fear as being great with heroes who need fast fingers. He more often plays heroes with relatively long cooldowns and not a ton of spells. What he excels in is picking the right time to use all of those spells, similar to Universe. For example, this tournament his WD wrecked, and that's a mechanically simple hero to play. The reason his was so good is because he's got enough game experience to Cask and Ward at the perfect moment, making those simple spells do more work than usual. But he's not so good at the ones that require split-second timing.
Am I the only one who remembers when EG liked to pick Puck for Fear, and he played the hero amazingly well? I don't agree with the notion that he'll become Kuroky levels of good at Rubick, but I do think he's got it in him.
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On January 18 2016 20:22 hunter_x wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2016 19:20 Atoissen wrote:On January 18 2016 19:05 evanthebouncy! wrote:On January 18 2016 13:00 MaZza[KIS] wrote:
When the switch happened, namely RTZ -> AUI, I was very supprotive. However, the patch is showing that perhaps losing Aui is not good. EG will suffer in this meta not having a good chen player. With someone like alliance you need to be able to ban Furion and LD and then pick up Chen first pick. Otherwise, if you give up either of those 3 alliance has players that are godlike on those heroes. This goes back to when if eitehr Akke got enchant/chen or bulldog got Furion the game was over. S4 will do S4 things (mostly pick up amazing runes and either draw or win mid) and it really doesnt matter what Loda does as long as he doesn't feed (which he's reasonably good at). EGM is also perfect in supporting these 4. Can't think of a better fit... This team just works... EG on the other hand, their players don't fit this patch at all. They will not win. RTZ tweet, as rude as it might be, is 100% spot on. yeah i think you're right. now it's back to mid being tempo controller and offlane having descent farm to serve as the 2nd core. both sumail / rtz play farming mids and EG's hero pool has severe limitations, to list a few: 1. nobody plays chen, hero of akke (fear could, but I've not seen it) 2. nobody plays rubick / wisp, hero of egm 3. nobody plays prophet / druid (only rtz played druid, but i don't think he's bulldog level druid) well that's a lot of bans EG needs to worry about. $4 is god tier so he can play pretty much anything, and loda can just play some safe and steady carry and pretty much don't make mistakes and be O.K. With the jungle stack nerf and EG's natural greed this patch is going to be hard. Offlane got buffed so much (did you see bulldog offlane druid and also farming the jungle in offlane?) that EG's style of putting universe the tempo controller in offlane is no longer viable. Mid is going to get online faster as a tempo controller and at the same time offlane 2nd core can still get very farmed. All in all EG has some severe hero pool limitations that gets exposed this patch With this text it sounds like EG got stomped whole tourney and ended outside of the prizepool You have some good points about the meta and how it has shifted, but I dont think EG is going to have such a big problem with it. As ppd said before starladder, they have a rather good idea of how to play this patch, but only in a couple more weeks I think they gonna be ready to win a tournament. Fear can 100% play rubick, he can be "kky tier" on that guy if he wants. I am rather sure ive seen fear play atleast Chen before, atleast he should practice it, and ench for that matter. Same goes for IO, eg needs a IO player, you might only play it in 2 of 100 games, but you need to have it in your arsenal! Other that that, I think they are fine, rtz, sumail and universe all have large hero pools, and are all top10 mechanically skilled players in the world (yes, this i my opinion ) and should have no problem learning new ones. Alliance outplayed EG in a bo3, it happends, next time eg will draft and play better! Fear can be kky tier if rubick if he wants? Lol i had a good laugh dude. You dont just want to be good on a hero like that, and then it happens. You got to have a lot of experience playing it. Same with chen....thats fanboyism at its finest
ok ok, some fanboyism might be correct...but ive seen plenty of fear games on rubick both from the last time he played support on EG and on his stream the last couple of years. But as Acritte pointed out, rubick isnt really a must play hero atm. so it doesnt matter that much.
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On January 18 2016 21:19 Dysisa wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2016 20:24 Acritter wrote:
I'm not so sure Fear would be on the level of Kuroky, fy, and EGM playing Rubick. I've never really seen Fear as being great with heroes who need fast fingers. He more often plays heroes with relatively long cooldowns and not a ton of spells. What he excels in is picking the right time to use all of those spells, similar to Universe. For example, this tournament his WD wrecked, and that's a mechanically simple hero to play. The reason his was so good is because he's got enough game experience to Cask and Ward at the perfect moment, making those simple spells do more work than usual. But he's not so good at the ones that require split-second timing. Am I the only one who remembers when EG liked to pick Puck for Fear, and he played the hero amazingly well? I don't agree with the notion that he'll become Kuroky levels of good at Rubick, but I do think he's got it in him.
I remember it well, got me to think of this also (nostalgia):D
 A Fistful of Tangoes
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EG are still the best team in the world , 2nd place is a brilliant result , what i do not like is the baby rage about the patch and what not , when Alliance don`t have (and still don't) Ember player nor SF it made them suffer so much in previous Meta it wasn't even funny , this meta they lack ES , meta changes and heroes rotate in and out thats the life of dota , soon Sumail storm will be back and all hell will break loose!
tldr - EG are the best team in the world and they will stay that way for a while I'm certain of it , first ban on universe Void going to open things up for them.
good luck at MDL
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On January 18 2016 20:24 Acritter wrote:
I'm not so sure Fear would be on the level of Kuroky, fy, and EGM playing Rubick. I've never really seen Fear as being great with heroes who need fast fingers. He more often plays heroes with relatively long cooldowns and not a ton of spells. What he excels in is picking the right time to use all of those spells, similar to Universe. For example, this tournament his WD wrecked, and that's a mechanically simple hero to play. The reason his was so good is because he's got enough game experience to Cask and Ward at the perfect moment, making those simple spells do more work than usual. But he's not so good at the ones that require split-second timing.
And with players like Sumail and Universe as play makers, Fear doesn’t really need to fill that role. So we don’t see him making huge plays with those two. Fear can play more play making heroes, like Puck, and he plays them well. Its just not the role he fills on the team right now.
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On January 19 2016 00:49 Pandemona wrote:
Did PPD confirm if they are going to ESL Manila btw? Or did he say they are not going there due to Major is there too?
I think he confirmed they are not going there.
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I'm not sure why people are down about EG getting 2nd. Alliance was playing well and their best heroes were in the Meta for the tournament and they've figured out the new map really well. Their rotations were on-point and they knew how to play against what EG was trying to do (especially game 2) very well. Game 1 hinged on Alliance's supports being in perfect position, as losing that fight at the top tier 1 would have put EG pretty far ahead. That is, classically, how you beat another team: prevent their strategy from working by outplaying them.
Fear has pro games on both Chen & Io, but it's been a while. He might not have expected to need them for Starladder, so he wasn't prepared. (I also think ppd isn't a big fan of running Io, as you really have to build your draft around the hero.) If Chen is still in the Meta by Shanghai, I would expect him to be ready for it, though.
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On January 18 2016 19:26 Atoissen wrote:
Edit: PS: the fb on Universe was also a big thing in the first game, he saw them coming for like 10 seconds before they reached him, he got 2 greedy and should have just backed off!
While he saw them there, it's pretty clear that he thought they'd head mid and annoy Sumail (who retreated and tower hugged at that time, which also helped contribute to him getting wrecked by s4 later, along with the follow up rotation).
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If EG still had AUI they wouldn't have the drafting issue people are discussing here.
More importantly people would be unable to use that asn an excuse anymore.
Alliance was outplaying EG at every turn. Rewatch the games guys. Warding and movement patterns dictated everything. Draft meant nothing here.
EG thought 1 step ahead to beat and counter Alliance while Alliance thought 2 steps ahead.
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EPT
