|
On February 03 2015 12:38 broodbucket wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2015 12:28 zdarr wrote:On February 03 2015 12:13 bagels21 wrote:On February 03 2015 11:44 Nagamundo wrote:On February 03 2015 11:34 greebosnabble wrote:On February 03 2015 10:28 zdarr wrote:On February 03 2015 10:16 bagels21 wrote:On February 03 2015 09:51 goody153 wrote:On February 03 2015 08:33 Daralii wrote:
EE has the most passionate antifans, it's weird. Newbee, alliance and xboct follow closely behind ee Ofcourse envy has the most passionate ones it's the combination of his "annoying" voice, his tryhard attitude, the way that some fans fanboy him (EE-sama, He[A]thens, no mercy etc.), and the fact that he's just not very good at expressing himself. If he looked "cool" and wasn't so openly tryhard(remember how the cool kids in high school were the ones who were effortless and didn't care) he wouldn't have 75% of his haters Also ignore this guy above; it is clear that he has no idea what he is talking about and is flamebaiting. EE has always been the heart and soul of C9; black is probably a better ricer than EE, but he's had his own flaws (go watch VG's games) also EE's leadership and drafting is what sets him apart lol "Ignore the guy making an argumentation, while i randomly trashtalk black without any argumentation myself. ". Also i never heard his voice, and i like tryhard. But I admit that the blindness of most of his fans is intriguing. Can someone explain me why most c9 fans are unable to see a flaw in EE? Do they really believe he's the best carry in the world ? Or is objectivity impossible for anyone who likes envy? I think he's a world-class captain. He's pretty good mechanically, but not as good as s4/rtz. A world-class captain would have kept Aui and kicked Throw7. except the most valuable position in the world is offlane (just ask secret) and there was no one out there that was better than bone. I also would not have kicked Aui, but he had his own reasons On February 03 2015 10:28 zdarr wrote:On February 03 2015 10:16 bagels21 wrote:On February 03 2015 09:51 goody153 wrote:On February 03 2015 08:33 Daralii wrote:
EE has the most passionate antifans, it's weird. Newbee, alliance and xboct follow closely behind ee Ofcourse envy has the most passionate ones it's the combination of his "annoying" voice, his tryhard attitude, the way that some fans fanboy him (EE-sama, He[A]thens, no mercy etc.), and the fact that he's just not very good at expressing himself. If he looked "cool" and wasn't so openly tryhard(remember how the cool kids in high school were the ones who were effortless and didn't care) he wouldn't have 75% of his haters Also ignore this guy above; it is clear that he has no idea what he is talking about and is flamebaiting. EE has always been the heart and soul of C9; black is probably a better ricer than EE, but he's had his own flaws (go watch VG's games) also EE's leadership and drafting is what sets him apart lol "Ignore the guy making an argumentation, while i randomly trashtalk black without any argumentation myself. ". Also i never heard his voice, and i like tryhard. But I admit that the blindness of most of his fans is intriguing. Can someone explain me why most c9 fans are unable to see a flaw in EE? Do they really believe he's the best carry in the world ? Or is objectivity impossible for anyone who likes envy? how did I trashtalk black? Go to the livethread of yesterday's games and go specifically to the parts where VG play(against secret and BG)? I don't want to come off as a hater so I didn't mention what was actually bad about him. I actually like him a lot(and hope that he stays in VG, though that looks to not be the case), I just don't think he could replace Envy's leadership/drafting. It's not that simple where you can just slot players into teams. Just ask Tinker lol It's a fact that EE has made every team he has gotten on world class. It's a fact that Envy's talent scouting is top tier. It's a fact that every player that has played or even stood in for Envy's teams have loved the experience and highly respected him. What i'm saying is the current meta (especially with the illusion nerf) doesn't favor as much as did the other versions the splitpushing wich is where EE is good. He isn't an amazing captain, he isn't an amazing game leader, he doesn't have many strat in his pocket, and he isn't an amazing decision maker. He was an amazing carry to have in a tier 1 team, but his weakness makes him unable to play at the same level in 6.83. And if C9 wants to keep the top 2/3 west they had so far, i think it has to be without him He took a group of completely unknown players and turned them into the second best Western team. Now there's a roster change and they're a bit shaky, maybe third best Western team. The only other Western player that maybe could've done what Envy did is ppd. KuroKy couldn't with the German teams he worked with. PLS KICK EE NOT PERFORMING UP TO STANDARDS EDIT: decided to rant more. Honestly if you've been watching this group stage and you think EE is the problem I simply don't know what to tell you. He has to figure out drafting in a newer patch where C9's game plan, particularly in the early game, is completely different with their new roster. Even ignoring that, he's been playing well, he's not looking anywhere near the weakest player on the team. I just don't get these EE anti-fans that feel so passionately they have to attack him in a thread full of his fans.
It's no fun being an anti-fan if you don't attack EE in a C9 thread.
|
There is no point defending bagels . internet anonynomity has strange effects . people will express hate just for the sake of hating
|
On February 03 2015 10:28 zdarr wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2015 10:16 bagels21 wrote:On February 03 2015 09:51 goody153 wrote:On February 03 2015 08:33 Daralii wrote:
EE has the most passionate antifans, it's weird. Newbee, alliance and xboct follow closely behind ee Ofcourse envy has the most passionate ones it's the combination of his "annoying" voice, his tryhard attitude, the way that some fans fanboy him (EE-sama, He[A]thens, no mercy etc.), and the fact that he's just not very good at expressing himself. If he looked "cool" and wasn't so openly tryhard(remember how the cool kids in high school were the ones who were effortless and didn't care) he wouldn't have 75% of his haters Also ignore this guy above; it is clear that he has no idea what he is talking about and is flamebaiting. EE has always been the heart and soul of C9; black is probably a better ricer than EE, but he's had his own flaws (go watch VG's games) also EE's leadership and drafting is what sets him apart lol "Ignore the guy making an argumentation, while i randomly trashtalk black without any argumentation myself. ". Also i never heard his voice, and i like tryhard. But I admit that the blindness of most of his fans is intriguing. Can someone explain me why most c9 fans are unable to see a flaw in EE? Do they really believe he's the best carry in the world ? Or is objectivity impossible for anyone who likes envy?
Eh ? Who said he is the best carry in the world ? Did you actually check our posts ? If you haven't I have repeatedly been saying sylar and arteezy.
Don't be one of the dumb kids who can see one side and immediately make a conclusion.
|
People like zdarr love to argue against strawmans that they construct out of complete ignorance and what I can only assume is extreme dislike of a player. Where did we say envy was a perfect player? Where did we say that envy was the best carry in the world? Why do you assume pld and aui leaving c9 was solely envy's decision instead of the team's? You're not even arguing anything of substance here, just outright flaming him.
It's fairly obvious that c9 fans are extremely critical of their team, but to call envy a 'really bad dota player' is absolutely hilarious. You should seriously re-evaluate your life because it seems like you're incapable of maturing as a person.
|
It's funny how you call me a envy hater, whereas i praise his farming and splitpushing skills. Well I guess it's easier to blame someone making criticism than to make an argument proving him wrong. I mean, there is even a guy saying i must have trouble in my life to criticize envy. SRSLY BRO?
All the argument people have against me, it's Envy took nonames (rofl) and took them top tier. Ok that's cool, but where did i say he has always been lame? I'm saying that right now, he won't be as good as he was for patch reasons, while he has always been overhyped. And when i mean he has been overhyped, I don't mean he was shit, but he was worse then what people thought of him.
@bagels : First thank you for making an argumented answer, that's appreciated. But i can't quite understand that part :
"EE was never known for playing illusion heroes outside of TB and naga. (weaver, doom, luna, drow, void etc.) I literally don't know why you are so attached to that idea"
Do you mean Weaver/doom/luna/drow/void are illusion hero ? Or these are carry EE is able to play well?
In any case, doom isn't a pos1 anymore (if he has ever be in dota 2, i admit i didn't follow the scene before 4/5 months ago), luna is hardly picked at all, Void has fallen to top notch carry to correct carry. And drow is currently a question mark about her power in the current meta.
|
On February 04 2015 04:40 zdarr wrote:
It's funny how you call me a envy hater, whereas i praise his farming and splitpushing skills. Well I guess it's easier to blame someone making criticism than to make an argument proving him wrong. I mean, there is even a guy saying i must have trouble in my life to criticize envy. SRSLY BRO?
All the argument people have against me, it's Envy took nonames (rofl) and took them top tier. Ok that's cool, but where did i say he has always been lame? I'm saying that right now, he won't be as good as he was for patch reasons, while he has always been overhyped. And when i mean he has been overhyped, I don't mean he was shit, but he was worse then what people thought of him.
@bagels : First thank you for making an argumented answer, that's appreciated. But i can't quite understand that part :
"EE was never known for playing illusion heroes outside of TB and naga. (weaver, doom, luna, drow, void etc.) I literally don't know why you are so attached to that idea"
Do you mean Weaver/doom/luna/drow/void are illusion hero ? Or these are carry EE is able to play well?
In any case, doom isn't a pos1 anymore (if he has ever be in dota 2, i admit i didn't follow the scene before 4/5 months ago), luna is hardly picked at all, Void has fallen to top notch carry to correct carry. And drow is currently a question mark about her power in the current meta.
If you haven't followed the scene before 4/5 months, how do you think you can make blanket statements about player skill levels and the current meta?
Anyway, prior to naga/tb, envy used to be known for his carry doom, Blink Clinkz, Luna, weaver, Lycan and drow + visage strats. I don't know whats so special about the current meta that you think he can't pick up the carries of the current patch. Did you watch TI4? Envy probably played Naga 3 times in that entire tournament. The rest of the games he played completely different heroes that had no illusion component.
There are probably a good 4-5 carries who I would place ahead of envy in terms of raw skill (Sylar, Burning, RTZ, maybe Black^ ). But people don't admire Envy for his carry play. He is just an outstanding leader and an good drafter who is still figuring out the current patch.
You have to compare him to ppd or puppey in terms of team impact. Puppey is not really that outstanding in raw skill when you compare him to Fy, Aui_2000, Alohadance or even tier 2 team supports like Sonneiko or Goddam . Hell even kky is better than him on 4 pos on his own team. But puppey is probably one of the best leaders and drafters in modern dota, C9 fans think of envy in a similar way. He is not that great mechanically, but we consider him probably one of the best captains and strategists in the west along with puppey and ppd. Even EG invited EE to join after TI4 as a carry instead of Fear (confirmed by Arteezy). Demon posted in his AMA on reddit that he enjoyed standing in for C9 the most because of captaincy of EE. Aui has mentioned multiple times on interviews and vlogs that C9 wouldn't be C9 without the captaincy of Envy.
So unless you have some raw facts that you have to back up what you are saying (instead of subjective arguments riddled with strawman assumptions), you need to stop.
And yes, Doom was played as a pos 1 in TI 4 and before.
|
On February 04 2015 05:40 Piledriver wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2015 04:40 zdarr wrote:
It's funny how you call me a envy hater, whereas i praise his farming and splitpushing skills. Well I guess it's easier to blame someone making criticism than to make an argument proving him wrong. I mean, there is even a guy saying i must have trouble in my life to criticize envy. SRSLY BRO?
All the argument people have against me, it's Envy took nonames (rofl) and took them top tier. Ok that's cool, but where did i say he has always been lame? I'm saying that right now, he won't be as good as he was for patch reasons, while he has always been overhyped. And when i mean he has been overhyped, I don't mean he was shit, but he was worse then what people thought of him.
@bagels : First thank you for making an argumented answer, that's appreciated. But i can't quite understand that part :
"EE was never known for playing illusion heroes outside of TB and naga. (weaver, doom, luna, drow, void etc.) I literally don't know why you are so attached to that idea"
Do you mean Weaver/doom/luna/drow/void are illusion hero ? Or these are carry EE is able to play well?
In any case, doom isn't a pos1 anymore (if he has ever be in dota 2, i admit i didn't follow the scene before 4/5 months ago), luna is hardly picked at all, Void has fallen to top notch carry to correct carry. And drow is currently a question mark about her power in the current meta. If you haven't followed the scene before 4/5 months, how do you think you can make blanket statements about player skill levels and the current meta? Anyway, prior to naga/tb, envy used to be known for his carry doom, Blink Clinkz, Luna, weaver, Lycan and drow + visage strats. I don't know whats so special about the current meta that you think he can't pick up the carries of the current patch. Did you watch TI4? Envy probably played Naga 3 times in that entire tournament. The rest of the games he played completely different heroes that had no illusion component. There are probably a good 4-5 carries who I would place ahead of envy in terms of raw skill (Sylar, Burning, RTZ, maybe Black^ ). But people don't admire Envy for his carry play. He is just an outstanding leader and an good drafter who is still figuring out the current patch. You have to compare him to ppd or puppey in terms of team impact. Puppey is not really that outstanding in raw skill when you compare him to Fy, Aui_2000, Alohadance or even tier 2 team supports like Sonneiko or Goddam . Hell even kky is better than him on 4 pos on his own team. But puppey is probably one of the best leaders and drafters in modern dota, C9 fans think of envy in a similar way. He is not that great mechanically, but we consider him probably one of the best captains and strategists in the west along with puppey and ppd. Even EG invited EE to join after TI4 as a carry instead of Fear (confirmed by Arteezy). Demon posted in his AMA on reddit that he enjoyed standing in for C9 the most because of captaincy of EE. Aui has mentioned multiple times on interviews and vlogs that C9 wouldn't be C9 without the captaincy of Envy. So unless you have some raw facts that you have to back up what you are saying (instead of subjective arguments riddled with strawman assumptions), you need to stop. And yes, Doom was played as a pos 1 in TI 4 and before.
Yep pretty much this.
EE is good enough to be Tier 1 in skill, but he's not arteezy, sylar, burning, (old Hao), and on his best day Black. But he's certainly in the next tier. I can't speak for other C9 fans, but I support Envy because I respect not only his innovative play, but his bluntness and desire to keep getting better.
I don't know if you know this, but EE was originally a honstar that played well for like 5 months and suddenly quit for school. (Hon now that we look back at it, was an amazing incubator for top dota2 talent) he came to TL(Envy has also been better than most pros at interacting with fans; he used to post here and on joindota) and posted an extremely personal thread on wanting to give up everything to go pro in dota that got criticized and lambasted (with a fair number of supporters). Envy actually followed through, didn't give up and kept playing and even left one of the best schools in Canada. He assembled a team with some great players (original NTH which actually had Black on it lol) and was good enough for 2 dota legends to approach him to join his team(loda/akke). Just to make it that far would probably be a huge achievement in dota (his dreamhack win is still pretty famous); but he was again set back and got booted from the team that would become one of the greatest in dota history and yet he still persevered joining Kaipi and again creating a world class team with an entirely new set of players.
Anyhow, Envy has a lot of fans because his story is not like the average dota pro and he epitomizes an "anime" story in that he never quit on his dreams. I no longer have a C9 flair because I really liked Aui and PLD, but that doesn't mean I still won't support Envy.
Furthermore, I was trying to make the point that Envy never really played illusion heroes for a long time. Those heroes I mentioned are all heroes Envy has been known to play well with in different metas and patches.
|
Thank you for the argumented post, tbh i never understood why envy was considered that good, and that's why i went here. Cuz who unless c9 can tell me what he's good at?
How can I? Well i played the wc3 dota for years, then i had a couple of years break and i came back on dota 2. So yeah i think i can make statement about metagame as the difference between 6.82 and 6.83 in the professionnal scene are quite easy to spot
Except for the blink clinkz that may come back with the latest buff and lycan who's played a lot. Most of them are outdated. I don't think you'll see a lot of pos1 doom, luna/weaver isn't pick much and drow/visage is too known to pass the ban phase without getting countered/banned. Also split pushing wasn't nerf only through the illusion nerf, but little nerf here and there to some heroes that fits well split pushing comp will also affect slightly the meta making splitpush strats less effective
For the raw skill part, i'd put a lot more carries ahead of him. Specially in the chinese scene, but also fire's carry feels better and maybe HR's too. It doesn't mean EE isn't able to make plays like them, but it'll be less frequent and you'll see more sloppy movement from EE than those guys (like the 2nd unit micro but not only).
Well i'll take back what i said about his captainship, although i don't think he can be compared to ppd/ppy. Also i strongly disagree when you say he suffers from the comparaison with aui2k/alohadance (fygod being really on another planet i'd agree).
I'll look at him more during those playoffs, but i still think that with a better carry, c9 could grab the top 3. I'd keep him as manager as he seems to be a good captain. With black being kicked from vg, I thought i kinda made sense as i thought i wouldn't be the only c9 enthusiast that doesn't like EE
|
As far as I can tell EE has at least as many critics as any other carry on a top team. I'm not trying to get into a discussion about what I think about him really here, but I just find the notion of him being "overrated" confusing, when noone is really saying he is the best anyway.
As bagels21 pointed out, the bigger reason why EE has his share of fans (and haters), rather than his in game performance alone, is that he has interacted with the community for a long while through his stream, posting on forums and whatever, and that he has a fairly unique story for a pro player. He didn't just get into a pro team by getting good individually and someone taking him in, but he made the decision to try and go pro, made his own team, became a tournament winner, got booted, joined forces with other players who previously were pretty unsuccessful, completely transformed the team and again the team got very good.
But talking about potential roster shuffles where EE would get the boot seems fairly pointless at the moment. They just changed their lineup and are playing their first event together. Everyone on the team seems pleased with the players they have in the team based on interviews. My point of view is the following. c9 played with the same core group of people for a long time, essentially 1.5 years with 1 player change. If they wanted to boot EE at some point, they could have done it as a team. That tells that the team values him as a member. After the newest shuffle, again bone7 and Fata stayed with EE, and n0tail contacted EE about forming a new team. They could have continued with the other 4 members without EE, n0tail could have contacted Fata or whoever else about forming a team, but none of these things happened. Again it seems to tell that the people playing with him and against him seem to value him as a player/team member, and want to play with him.
|
Envy "overrated" has to be the funniest statement I've read on these forums this year. The guy gets almost as much hate as Xboct, and has done for years. And even his biggest fans recognise his weaknesses and that he's gone through periods of playing poorly. The only possible way you could think he was overrated is if you take the whole "EE-sama" jokes seriously, in which case I have to wonder at your Romanian-ism.
Even ignoring his captaincy, Envy is a good carry. He's not the best player in the world, but he's worthy of being on one of the top Western teams because he's one of the top Western carries. I can only assume that people who deny this don't actually watch enough games or don't understand the ones they do watch to have a real opinion.
|
On February 04 2015 21:56 FuzzyJAM wrote:
Envy "overrated" has to be the funniest statement I've read on these forums this year. The guy gets almost as much hate as Xboct, and has done for years. And even his biggest fans recognise his weaknesses and that he's gone through periods of playing poorly. The only possible way you could think he was overrated is if you take the whole "EE-sama" jokes seriously, in which case I have to wonder at your Romanian-ism.
Even ignoring his captaincy, Envy is a good carry. He's not the best player in the world, but he's worthy of being on one of the top Western teams because he's one of the top Western carries. I can only assume that people who deny this don't actually watch enough games or don't understand the ones they do watch to have a real opinion.
No.
User was warned for this post
|
On February 04 2015 22:07 drusalnik wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2015 21:56 FuzzyJAM wrote:
Envy "overrated" has to be the funniest statement I've read on these forums this year. The guy gets almost as much hate as Xboct, and has done for years. And even his biggest fans recognise his weaknesses and that he's gone through periods of playing poorly. The only possible way you could think he was overrated is if you take the whole "EE-sama" jokes seriously, in which case I have to wonder at your Romanian-ism.
Even ignoring his captaincy, Envy is a good carry. He's not the best player in the world, but he's worthy of being on one of the top Western teams because he's one of the top Western carries. I can only assume that people who deny this don't actually watch enough games or don't understand the ones they do watch to have a real opinion. No.
alright man i'm convinced, you really know your stuff
|
On February 04 2015 22:49 Exoteric wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2015 22:07 drusalnik wrote:On February 04 2015 21:56 FuzzyJAM wrote:
Envy "overrated" has to be the funniest statement I've read on these forums this year. The guy gets almost as much hate as Xboct, and has done for years. And even his biggest fans recognise his weaknesses and that he's gone through periods of playing poorly. The only possible way you could think he was overrated is if you take the whole "EE-sama" jokes seriously, in which case I have to wonder at your Romanian-ism.
Even ignoring his captaincy, Envy is a good carry. He's not the best player in the world, but he's worthy of being on one of the top Western teams because he's one of the top Western carries. I can only assume that people who deny this don't actually watch enough games or don't understand the ones they do watch to have a real opinion. No. alright man i'm convinced, you really know your stuff
I mean, you didn't really expect from him to post something that makes sense, did you?
|
On February 04 2015 23:01 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2015 22:49 Exoteric wrote:On February 04 2015 22:07 drusalnik wrote:On February 04 2015 21:56 FuzzyJAM wrote:
Envy "overrated" has to be the funniest statement I've read on these forums this year. The guy gets almost as much hate as Xboct, and has done for years. And even his biggest fans recognise his weaknesses and that he's gone through periods of playing poorly. The only possible way you could think he was overrated is if you take the whole "EE-sama" jokes seriously, in which case I have to wonder at your Romanian-ism.
Even ignoring his captaincy, Envy is a good carry. He's not the best player in the world, but he's worthy of being on one of the top Western teams because he's one of the top Western carries. I can only assume that people who deny this don't actually watch enough games or don't understand the ones they do watch to have a real opinion. No. alright man i'm convinced, you really know your stuff I mean, you didn't really expect from him to post something that makes sense, did you?
No did you?
I mean seriously hueeeee
|
People think envy is shit because in trying to push boundaries he has these complete brainfart moments that other top carries barely ever have (e.g. solo omnislash on ghost scepter rubick into getting chronoed vs newbee). All you need is a little selective memory and you can find plenty of moments that 'prove' envy sucks. The same goes for xboct and I think that's part of why both have more than their fair share of haters.
I'm actually really curious what envy is like as a captain. He seems really well-regarded in the pro scene, but somehow my mental image is him just yelling 'REPELMEREPELMEREPELMEREPELMEREPELME' over and over.
|
On February 05 2015 03:07 Orome wrote:
People think envy is shit because in trying to push boundaries he has these complete brainfart moments that other top carries barely ever have (e.g. solo omnislash on ghost scepter rubick into getting chronoed vs newbee). All you need is a little selective memory and you can find plenty of moments that 'prove' envy sucks. The same goes for xboct and I think that's part of why both have more than their fair share of haters.
I'm actually really curious what envy is like as a captain. He seems really well-regarded in the pro scene, but somehow my mental image is him just yelling 'REPELMEREPELMEREPELMEREPELMEREPELME' over and over.
FURIONCANYOUTPTOP
|
On February 05 2015 03:07 Orome wrote:
People think envy is shit because in trying to push boundaries he has these complete brainfart moments that other top carries barely ever have (e.g. solo omnislash on ghost scepter rubick into getting chronoed vs newbee). All you need is a little selective memory and you can find plenty of moments that 'prove' envy sucks. The same goes for xboct and I think that's part of why both have more than their fair share of haters.
I'm actually really curious what envy is like as a captain. He seems really well-regarded in the pro scene, but somehow my mental image is him just yelling 'REPELMEREPELMEREPELMEREPELMEREPELME' over and over.
lol
Well, I assume he respects his professional teammate's opinions more than pubbers, meaning he doesn't feel the need to harangue them to do what he says. If they don't do what he's asking for, he probably figures they have a good reason, unlike pubs where he (correctly) sees himself as making better decisions nine times out of ten.
And you're spot on about the public valuing "safe" play too much.
|
+ Show Spoiler +On February 04 2015 05:40 Piledriver wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2015 04:40 zdarr wrote:
It's funny how you call me a envy hater, whereas i praise his farming and splitpushing skills. Well I guess it's easier to blame someone making criticism than to make an argument proving him wrong. I mean, there is even a guy saying i must have trouble in my life to criticize envy. SRSLY BRO?
All the argument people have against me, it's Envy took nonames (rofl) and took them top tier. Ok that's cool, but where did i say he has always been lame? I'm saying that right now, he won't be as good as he was for patch reasons, while he has always been overhyped. And when i mean he has been overhyped, I don't mean he was shit, but he was worse then what people thought of him.
@bagels : First thank you for making an argumented answer, that's appreciated. But i can't quite understand that part :
"EE was never known for playing illusion heroes outside of TB and naga. (weaver, doom, luna, drow, void etc.) I literally don't know why you are so attached to that idea"
Do you mean Weaver/doom/luna/drow/void are illusion hero ? Or these are carry EE is able to play well?
In any case, doom isn't a pos1 anymore (if he has ever be in dota 2, i admit i didn't follow the scene before 4/5 months ago), luna is hardly picked at all, Void has fallen to top notch carry to correct carry. And drow is currently a question mark about her power in the current meta. If you haven't followed the scene before 4/5 months, how do you think you can make blanket statements about player skill levels and the current meta? Anyway, prior to naga/tb, envy used to be known for his carry doom, Blink Clinkz, Luna, weaver, Lycan and drow + visage strats. I don't know whats so special about the current meta that you think he can't pick up the carries of the current patch. Did you watch TI4? Envy probably played Naga 3 times in that entire tournament. The rest of the games he played completely different heroes that had no illusion component. There are probably a good 4-5 carries who I would place ahead of envy in terms of raw skill (Sylar, Burning, RTZ, maybe Black^ ). But people don't admire Envy for his carry play. He is just an outstanding leader and an good drafter who is still figuring out the current patch. You have to compare him to ppd or puppey in terms of team impact. Puppey is not really that outstanding in raw skill when you compare him to Fy, Aui_2000, Alohadance or even tier 2 team supports like Sonneiko or Goddam . Hell even kky is better than him on 4 pos on his own team. But puppey is probably one of the best leaders and drafters in modern dota, C9 fans think of envy in a similar way. He is not that great mechanically, but we consider him probably one of the best captains and strategists in the west along with puppey and ppd. Even EG invited EE to join after TI4 as a carry instead of Fear (confirmed by Arteezy). Demon posted in his AMA on reddit that he enjoyed standing in for C9 the most because of captaincy of EE. Aui has mentioned multiple times on interviews and vlogs that C9 wouldn't be C9 without the captaincy of Envy. So unless you have some raw facts that you have to back up what you are saying (instead of subjective arguments riddled with strawman assumptions), you need to stop. And yes, Doom was played as a pos 1 in TI 4 and before.
I follow and agree but make no mistake, Puppey is a damn good dota player. Not only a leader/drafter.
|
Nice base race jesus fuckin christ...
|
Bone7 why did you have to stand there at mid, with two off your teammates down?Why did you not finish killing AA before turning to try to kill the lion?
I like Bone7 just fine but he seems to be on tilt most of this tournament. That said almost all of them played terribly aside from notail. D:
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
