EPTCloud9 Discussion - Page 26
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Mutineer
New Zealand179 Posts
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Hoenicker
243 Posts
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MirageTaN
Singapore871 Posts
On December 08 2014 18:54 Hoenicker wrote: Seems like they lack a player with the balls to make big plays, which might cost them the game... or win them a championship. There's FATA and bOne7 and EE at times to make plays. I think its more of their mentality to prove themselves in finals that makes them so weak in Finals as compared to in group stages | ||
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Sabu113
United States11076 Posts
Their big issues seem to be that they're so well known for the one style and fall into it even when the game might not allow it. Drafting is also an issue with this as the Brood just murders their style it feels. Would love to see them do a little 5 manny stuff for awhile just to have that option available to scare people. All in all though they're continuing to make progress towards TI5. | ||
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the bear jew
United States3674 Posts
On December 09 2014 06:50 Sabu113 wrote: They just had a bad day. It happens however salty I felt on the day. Their big issues seem to be that they're so well known for the one style and fall into it even when the game might not allow it. Drafting is also an issue with this as the Brood just murders their style it feels. Would love to see them do a little 5 manny stuff for awhile just to have that option available to scare people. All in all though they're continuing to make progress towards TI5. I remember one game, might of been this tournament, they were vs EG and went aggro with necrophos/io offlane and crushed it. I understand it's an elimination match, but they were on the ropes cause they did the same general strat 3 earlier times. A safe lane void is so weak cause he's supposed to be a big damage dealer, he could of been really vulnerable to heavy early pressure. Would it be riskier, yeah but it might of won them the game. Going late vs a team with that amount of initiation and getting in a farm war is super risky and they lost cause of it. | ||
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bagels21
United States4357 Posts
On December 09 2014 07:03 the bear jew wrote: I remember one game, might of been this tournament, they were vs EG and went aggro with necrophos/io offlane and crushed it. I understand it's an elimination match, but they were on the ropes cause they did the same general strat 3 earlier times. A safe lane void is so weak cause he's supposed to be a big damage dealer, he could of been really vulnerable to heavy early pressure. Would it be riskier, yeah but it might of won them the game. Going late vs a team with that amount of initiation and getting in a farm war is super risky and they lost cause of it. it was in dreamleague finals and that was the match they won, so you have a point lol. C9 are still fully capable of pulling out pocket strats, they just didn't do so this tournament. I think Envy was too in love with the PA pick in the finals tbh. C9 should have also picked tide as giving him away is just too deadly... | ||
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bagels21
United States4357 Posts
On December 08 2014 16:01 evanthebouncy! wrote: C9 rely too much on efficiency and farming to win. They are not as good at fighting pushing or ganking. Once brood denies their jungle it's over. 0 jungle farm. You do realize that C9 during TI4 and preTI4 played plenty of push strats? Luna deathball, Meepo/doom, and Drow/Visage? Brood's main strength against the C9 draft is that they give Aui a greedy hero and envy plays a hard carry. Old C9 would give Envy a hero that could do stuff without that much farm (doom, luna, weaver) which allowed Aui to be greedier. FATA/bone7 did not play particularly well this series, which led to them losing individual lanes and misplaying in the midgame, which hadn't happened recently | ||
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B1nary
Canada1267 Posts
On December 08 2014 18:54 Hoenicker wrote: Seems like they lack a player with the balls to make big plays, which might cost them the game... or win them a championship. I would say that Bone and FATA both have plenty of balls. On the flip side, I think PLD and Aui need a little more balls. They're both very stable, but don't seem to make big plays as often as Zai/PPD or Fy/Fenrir. | ||
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spudde123
4814 Posts
But I definitely think that a death ball style is good to have in your arsenal, because if your opponent leaves an opening for it in the draft you can just roll over teams and get easy wins. In addition, I feel playing lineups that can quickly take objectives and put early pressure through that is easier against lower tier teams, because they will make the mistakes that you can't afford to make in the early tower defenses. If you often play with a bit weak lanes, occasionally it will happen that you screw up in the lanes and the game snowballs even against weaker teams, which imo causes c9 to drop some games (especially online) to teams they should beat. They did use a sort of a death ball style somewhat recently for example in previous SL group stages against EG with Necro+Bristle. But it's hard to say how they think about different styles of play and different heroes, and why they choose to pick something. After they don't win the event, it's always easy to point at some repeating picks or them being predictable or whatever. But if the players feel that they just screwed up and their idea of the game is fine, then there is no real reason to do big changes. | ||
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Sabu113
United States11076 Posts
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Nagamundo
131 Posts
PLD and Bone7 also seem to have alot of trouble keeping up in networth when compared to other players in similar roles. | ||
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MirageTaN
Singapore871 Posts
On December 11 2014 13:54 Nagamundo wrote: EE, FATA and Aui are solid players but Bone7 is wildly inconsistent in terms of performance. He seems to play a great Bat, but his Jakiro, Tide and LC are bad most of the time. He also seems capable of making 2k MMR level mistakes. Memorable instances include letting Chuan grab his mana boots when playing Tide. PLD and Bone7 also seem to have alot of trouble keeping up in networth when compared to other players in similar roles. They have improved like 2000x since dreamhack valancia and in TI4, bOne7 impressed the world with his clockwerk play and pieliedie has impressed me with his tactical movements which has so far been very impressive. | ||
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spudde123
4814 Posts
He also talked along the lines of being a bit disappointed about not winning a big title yet and the current roster having the potential to win TI, but they still have some communication issues. I think he mentioned that them not having one designated leader and people having their own ideas can at times hurt them. And more humorously he called bone7 an "idiot savant". Apparently he is at times the smartest guy Aui knows and at times really stupid. There also was some random talk about heroes, pubs, and all sorts of things that I probably don't remember. | ||
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Dorner
Ireland22 Posts
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Daralii
United States16991 Posts
http://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/2pl1st/c9_drops_out_of_ileague_season_2_cause_prize_pool/ | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
Being willing to go there for the biggest non-TI prize pool in history (almost $500,000) is different from being willing to go over there for a prize pool well under $200,000 (aka less than most decent western tournaments) | ||
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spudde123
4814 Posts
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Daralii
United States16991 Posts
On December 18 2014 04:31 spudde123 wrote: Aui posted the real reason in that reddit thread. It wasn't directly money related, but instead tournament info was either not given out well in time or was changed without telling c9, organizers talked about using some practices that c9 have had bad experiences with previously with shady Chinese organizers, and iLeague also refuses to use any other payment method than cash. Apparently tidesoftime lost his money at the airport the last time this happened (I assume at WEC since they also paid cash afaik), though not sure whether he was robbed or if the money was just taken by the airport officials. Full quote: What a misleading title. We dropped out because they randomly changed their prize pool last minute without communication with us, gave us visa info very late, and we weren't confident in the conditions we would have to go to China in. It wasn't a money thing. The prize pool is still quite high. Edit: misleading because of the chinese post, not because of the reddit OP. Also, they said they'd pay us back for flights in cash when we landed. The last Chinese tournament that said they'd pay us back for flights hasn't given us anything (wpc ace). I don't want to have another bad China experience because I think it's team ruining and I think a misleading prize pool advertisement sort of indicates a bad experience. Oh and they won't pay us to our bank accounts--they said they'd pay us in cash. That scares me. Not scares me because I think they won't pay out, I know Ileague has paid out their season one, but I don't ever want to be paid for a big tournament in cash again (look at tidesoftime, got his money taken at the airport etc). Charlie(EG's manager) also chimed in to say the entire original blog post is "An overly defensive crock of shit." | ||
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FuzzyJAM
Scotland9300 Posts
I guess it gives them the opportunity to work on their game and they're almost guaranteed an invite to TI5 already anyway but I still want to watch them play. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
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