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It baffles me how these professional teams use Reddit as their source of communication, specially with this caliber of match-fixing scandal.
I agree with what has been said here, with what Oling posted, suddenly all Reddit aims their hate at Jaren, demonizing him as the worst scum on the whole scene...
Yeah, he might be as 'insert negative connotation here' as they say, doing this and that, but let's not forget what this scandal was about in the first place.
Why not just focus on the match fixing itself? Is this going to turn into another Solo case?
It might be the perfect opportunity to unveil Jaren's shadiness or just some cheap groin attack... Whatever it is, it just deviates the attention from the real culprits.
Let's be honest, this Jaren guy, who is supposedly known as an organizer of small SEA tournaments and now team manager, has no reason to be the one behind the match fixing itself.
Why would he even risk his reputation in something so petty for a hundred of bucks?
I think with his stupidity he just tried to cover/salvage his team and player's reputation in the spur of the moment (knowing SEA struggles with getting sponsors).
Covering lies with more lies and fabricating fake evidence, while these actions are grave, can they be considered as grave or even more than the action of match-fixing?
With the recent news we now know that the whole roster plus their girlfriends were involved in the match-fixing.
Be it naivety or not, let's solve what is important first and then focus later on the 'shadiness' part...
Shadiness has always been present, some are shrugged off, some are forgotten or become acceptable... There's just so much the community won't ever know, only known to those close within the community.
I hope we hear word from Valve this time... At least be a little be more involved with the scene as Riot is with LoL.
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On October 22 2014 12:46 Namunelbo wrote:
I hope we hear word from Valve this time... At least be a little be more involved with the scene as Riot is with LoL.
Why exactly?
As far as I know, Valve doesn't want to have to be part of it because they want the scene to grow organically, and not because they threw a bunch of money at it. Likely thinking that if it does grow organically, it has a much better of actually surviving for any length of time, and actually become something bigger than "some tournament the company puts on for it's own game"
Yeah it might not be pretty, but it's working itself out. The scene will hopefully grow and learn from this so it can become stronger.
It seems to me that this is exactly how Valve wants things?
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The most Valve might do is bad them from playing in the international, but as they haven't done that to solo and the rest of that roxxis squad yet, tis a safe bet they wont.
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On October 21 2014 03:10 ArchDC wrote:
He practically speaks no English
That's surprising, seeing English is a compulsary subject in their schools. And not just a couple semesters of ESL, it's elementary through high school. Passing English is required for graduation along with the standardized O-level equivalent test.
Aurally not fluent perhaps, but basic reading and writing comprehension should not be a problem.
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From the latest Reddit post, it seems Jared is hated in SEA scene, this match fixing scandal is like a golden chance for the others to bring him down.
I also don't see the players actually feel remorse for their actions or at least realize the seriousness of this issue, but rather they are trying to put the blame on others.
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On October 22 2014 15:26 gigalib wrote:
From the latest Reddit post, it seems Jared is hated in SEA scene, this match fixing scandal is like a golden chance for the others to bring him down.
I also don't see the players actually feel remorse for their actions or at least realize the seriousness of this issue, but rather they are trying to put the blame on others.
That's not exactly fair when their girlfriends and manager are doing all the talking. ddz's one and only contribution (the text in Chinese) is fine for now.
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On October 22 2014 14:55 Elurie wrote:That's surprising, seeing English is a compulsary subject in their schools. And not just a couple semesters of ESL, it's elementary through high school. Passing English is required for graduation along with the standardized O-level equivalent test. Aurally not fluent perhaps, but basic reading and writing comprehension should not be a problem.
It's possible. The problem with Malaysia's education system is that you can't get held back no matter how badly you do. You can drift up to our version of the O-levels and flunk out there. Passing English and Malay is a requirement for passing the exam but if you fail then... well... you fail.
Alternatively, there is the Chinese education system that teaches everything in Chinese and have their own exam system. They are obligated to take the government exams but they don't really care (just spend the mandatory 45 minutes and leave the hall). The qualification they get from these schools is not universally recognized within Malaysia for further education (it is one of the contentious social issues in the country). I've personally met some of these students and some of them are really smart, it's just that they have MAJOR problems expressing themselves in the English due to the lack of emphasis on it.
Edit: Also, poor English fluency among local graduates is a major contributing factor to graduate unemployment in the country.
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I met this guy from a private school who took mandatory french from grades k-12 because Maines got a bunch of franco american heritage, and his French was worse than my 4 years of Spanish (which i haven't used for 2 years and have forgotten most of) because he just studied for exams and then never used it. I bet that can happen just as easily in other countries.
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On October 22 2014 08:52 bagels21 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2014 06:07 Piledriver wrote:On October 22 2014 05:55 CountChocula wrote:honestly, that article doesn't present anything new. all it does is try to make jaren out to be the bad guy even though he seems to have found out about the matchfixing along with everyone else, and deflect blame away from ddz+lance who were the ones to actually commit the crime. p.s. jaren is using fake iG facebook page for ad moneys (how is this relevant for anything besides character assassination?) p.p.s. jaren hates puppies it's amazing how the article's spin has managed to convince r/dota2 csheeple This x 1000. I posted literally the same thing on reddit, but it doesnt matter, the pitchforks are out in full force. But then again, reddit is not known for being the most intelligent site on the internet. Its always the case that managers/organizers/casters take a lot more flak than the actual players, even if they commit lesser crimes. I remember the way the SC2 community castrated -Orb- for using "nigger" as an epithet in a random ladder game and pretty much destroyed his streaming/casting career. While much more famous players like IdrA routinely got free passes and were worshipped, while being pretty much the most abusive person in the SC2 community until Alex Garfield finally had enough. Yup. Gotta agree with this statement. While Jaren seemed like a dick and probably not the best character, DDZ, Lance and the rest of Arrow were the ones to actually commit the crime. Hope they are actually punished here.
I'm not sure how anyone is reading that that article says its Jaren's fault.
From reading it myself I got the following impressions
- The whole team was involved in matchfixing. As well as the two girlfriends.
- Some of them got caught and freaked out, going to Jaren.
- Jaren then tried to work out what was going on and limit the damage to the team itself.
- As the scale of it became apparent (i.e. when he realised it was EVERYONE) he went off the deep end and started colluding to fake evidence to try cover it all up to try to save the team rather than having to fire everyone over it. This is where he crosses the line into being in the wrong as well, but the matchfixing itself wasn't his fault.
- Jaren is pretty shady and dishonest all around and has a big hand in manipulating the SEA scene. So he isn't exactly a squeaky clean guy himself. Which is interesting and disturbing, but doesn't mean he was responsible for the matchfixing. To me this came across as a dam being burst with a "well if I'm going to point out what he's done in this incident I might as well point out ALL the dodgy things he's doing" kind of way.
So yeah...I'm not sure where people are getting the "blame Jaren, its his fault" thing from.
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On October 21 2014 07:17 lolnoty wrote:
Is this when the community realizes that Solo got off way too fucking easy? Tournaments should grow balls and re-ban him, because it's a joke that he got off by just being a westerner, saying sorry, and getting a 1 month probation.
If the SEA teams are getting bans, the entire scene needs to turn the fuck around and do it to Solo as well. Having a standard really means nothing when it's as flexible as "oh well he's a good player and apologized!" I am still #1 savior fan, he was a god, but still deserved the ban.
This is so true. A lot of people are saying - rightfully so - that match fixing is hurting E-sports. But if some people doing so are just "free" after a ridiculously short time, as a sponsor, I would not put any trust in any organisation that let this happen.
This is why Valve should be dealing with this kind of stuff IMO, because with the number of organisations running tournaments, there is no way every player involved in this kind of stuff will get the same (too harsh, or not/ deserved, or not) punishment.
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I'm astonished by how incredibly judgemental all of the comments on this situation have been.
Give these guys a break, they're young, poor and just as immature as you were at their age. They've made a mistake, acted retarded about it and won't get away with it without being severely punished. No reason to ban them for life or take away their only and very limited source of income.
Match-fixing wouldn't happen if the whole dota ecosystem had less of a senseless distribution of wealth. It is, as always, more about the big picture than about the people.
Dire situations make for desperate actions and I'm not convinced that, had the roles been reversed, you mega-righteous westerners would have acted any differently.
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On October 24 2014 09:36 CptMarvel wrote:
I'm astonished by how incredibly judgemental all of the comments on this situation have been.
Give these guys a break, they're young, poor and just as immature as you were at their age. They've made a mistake, acted retarded about it and won't get away with it without being severely punished. No reason to ban them for life or take away their only and very limited source of income.
Match-fixing wouldn't happen if the whole dota ecosystem had less of a senseless distribution of wealth. It is, as always, more about the big picture than about the people.
Dire situations make for desperate actions and I'm not convinced that, had the roles been reversed, you mega-righteous westerners would have acted any differently.
If I wasn't comfortable with my level of income from pro gaming I would have gotten a job of any kind, because pro gaming isn't something you should go into for the money.
Wait did you really just call for dota socialism?
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On October 24 2014 10:56 Jaaaaasper wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2014 09:36 CptMarvel wrote:
I'm astonished by how incredibly judgemental all of the comments on this situation have been.
Give these guys a break, they're young, poor and just as immature as you were at their age. They've made a mistake, acted retarded about it and won't get away with it without being severely punished. No reason to ban them for life or take away their only and very limited source of income.
Match-fixing wouldn't happen if the whole dota ecosystem had less of a senseless distribution of wealth. It is, as always, more about the big picture than about the people.
Dire situations make for desperate actions and I'm not convinced that, had the roles been reversed, you mega-righteous westerners would have acted any differently. If I wasn't comfortable with my level of income from pro gaming I would have gotten a job of any kind, because pro gaming isn't something you should go into for the money. Wait did you really just call for dota socialism?
Haha, funny that when you talk about 'distribution of wealth' to an american he auto goes all cold-war-bullshit on you.
I mean people playing the same game and doing the same job shouldn't be paid so differently accross the planet.
That being said, I'm FRENCH and am a TEACHER in CHINA. Life obviously pushes me to the left-wing.
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Northern Ireland22212 Posts
On October 24 2014 17:47 CptMarvel wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2014 10:56 Jaaaaasper wrote:On October 24 2014 09:36 CptMarvel wrote:
I'm astonished by how incredibly judgemental all of the comments on this situation have been.
Give these guys a break, they're young, poor and just as immature as you were at their age. They've made a mistake, acted retarded about it and won't get away with it without being severely punished. No reason to ban them for life or take away their only and very limited source of income.
Match-fixing wouldn't happen if the whole dota ecosystem had less of a senseless distribution of wealth. It is, as always, more about the big picture than about the people.
Dire situations make for desperate actions and I'm not convinced that, had the roles been reversed, you mega-righteous westerners would have acted any differently. If I wasn't comfortable with my level of income from pro gaming I would have gotten a job of any kind, because pro gaming isn't something you should go into for the money. Wait did you really just call for dota socialism? Haha, funny that when you talk about 'distribution of wealth' to an american he auto goes all cold-war-bullshit on you. I mean people playing the same game and doing the same job shouldn't be paid so differently accross the planet. That being said, I'm FRENCH and am a TEACHER in CHINA. Life obviously pushes me to the left-wing.
By the sounds of it, yes. I guess you think goods should cost the same across the planet as well, right?
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I explained myself wrong. I meant that the quality of life should be comparable for every salary-earning progamer on the planet. Taking local prices into account is obvious.
Anyway get off these poor lads, I'm sure they're feeling bad enough already.
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Czech Republic18921 Posts
What is even going on in this thread?
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On October 24 2014 22:57 CptMarvel wrote:
I explained myself wrong. I meant that the quality of life should be comparable for every salary-earning progamer on the planet. Taking local prices into account is obvious.
Anyway get off these poor lads, I'm sure they're feeling bad enough already.
The quality of life can vary widely from country to country doing the same job.
This isn't some mysterious magical wonder unique to esports.
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On October 24 2014 23:14 cecek wrote:
What is even going on in this thread?
This is a hot button issue for broodwar fans as the match fixing scandal did more damage to brood war than sctwo ever could, and they don't want the same to happen to dota, And then someone came in and either went full foreigner or just phrased his point really poorly which made the last few posts interesting.
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EPT
