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On September 18 2013 08:44 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2013 08:40 Oxyoxygen wrote:Yeah not sure why all the EG hate they finished top 3 in almost every tournament in the few months before TI3 sure they didnt take first in any of them but still good results none the less. Thier competitive match elo on GG.net is still higher then fnatic, kp and dignitas. http://www.gosugamers.net/dota2/rankingsEG was also the last team that beat Alliance in a BO3 before their ongoing 19 match streak? Not sure how accurate that one is as i am again going off the gg.net match history. That's not a huge factor for the KP fans, who just want to see them there. Real concrete numbers are can be disputed by saying that KP would beat the current, unknown EG roster.
Or you could point to EG pretty being off the map since the TI3 qualifiers and DEFINITELY since TI3.
How do you compare match histories when one doesnt exist?
On September 18 2013 08:27 teapoted wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2013 08:10 Two_DoWn wrote:
Realistically, the EG invite was likely forced by EG in order to have Alliance show up. So those 2 were gonna be tied no matter what, even though EG is throughly undeserving. Lets just make random shit up why don't we, this post isn't filled with enough nonsense already. I bet they only invited Na'Vi because of the Ukranian mob.
The EG corporation held all the cards. What does EG give MLG at this point? You are paying for 5 players to come play at a tournament they have no shot of winning, even in America wouldnt be the fan favorites, so why bring them?
Sure, you can argue that the EG tag still has pull outside the Dota scene, but in it? Is EG REALLY drawing anyone to Columbus? Or is Navi and [A] the real sell here?
And if you are EG, you know MLG has to bring [A] if they want to be seen as having a torunament with the best in the world, is there any chance in HELL that EG doesnt say "sure, we will send [A], but you also have to take our branded team so we get our name out there."
At this point its the only realistic explanation for EG's inclusion as an auto invited team. Also note, I couched my statement in language that made it clear that it was an assumption. Im trying to work through the reason MLG decided to flush 5 tickets and hotel rooms down the toilet. Cuz the EG dota brand has 0 value at this point, other than a laughingstock (When did EG throw last).
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I just want another all-star match AFTER the tourny is done so all the players can relax and enjoy a fun game of doto.. If this truly is an offline event.. I think Kaipi is definintely always a fun team to watch especially with their drafts. Games will be pretty jokes if Kaipi were to enter the tourny. Ithink if all of Kaipi's members played at their full potential at offlines i'd have my rares on them vs EG or TL
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On September 18 2013 08:57 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2013 08:44 Plansix wrote:On September 18 2013 08:40 Oxyoxygen wrote:Yeah not sure why all the EG hate they finished top 3 in almost every tournament in the few months before TI3 sure they didnt take first in any of them but still good results none the less. Thier competitive match elo on GG.net is still higher then fnatic, kp and dignitas. http://www.gosugamers.net/dota2/rankingsEG was also the last team that beat Alliance in a BO3 before their ongoing 19 match streak? Not sure how accurate that one is as i am again going off the gg.net match history. That's not a huge factor for the KP fans, who just want to see them there. Real concrete numbers are can be disputed by saying that KP would beat the current, unknown EG roster. Or you could point to EG pretty being off the map since the TI3 qualifiers and DEFINITELY since TI3. How do you compare match histories when one doesnt exist?
I'm sorry, were their during that time that mattered? Does anyone care if they won a bunch of cups while everyone was ramping up for or TI3 or after words?
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On September 18 2013 09:03 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2013 08:57 Two_DoWn wrote:On September 18 2013 08:44 Plansix wrote:On September 18 2013 08:40 Oxyoxygen wrote:Yeah not sure why all the EG hate they finished top 3 in almost every tournament in the few months before TI3 sure they didnt take first in any of them but still good results none the less. Thier competitive match elo on GG.net is still higher then fnatic, kp and dignitas. http://www.gosugamers.net/dota2/rankingsEG was also the last team that beat Alliance in a BO3 before their ongoing 19 match streak? Not sure how accurate that one is as i am again going off the gg.net match history. That's not a huge factor for the KP fans, who just want to see them there. Real concrete numbers are can be disputed by saying that KP would beat the current, unknown EG roster. Or you could point to EG pretty being off the map since the TI3 qualifiers and DEFINITELY since TI3. How do you compare match histories when one doesnt exist? I'm sorry, were their during that time that mattered? Does anyone care if they won a bunch of cups while everyone was ramping up for or TI3 or after words?
So your argument is that EG deserves a slot because their current team MIGHT be as good as a Tier 2 western team?
Cuz remember: WE HAVE NO FUCKING CLUE IF THEY HAVE EVEN PLAYED A SCRIM SINCE THEY LOST THE QUALIFIER FOR TI3.
At the current juncture, EG doesnt even deserve an automatic slot over DIGNITAS, let alone KP.
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On September 18 2013 09:05 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2013 09:03 Plansix wrote:On September 18 2013 08:57 Two_DoWn wrote:On September 18 2013 08:44 Plansix wrote:On September 18 2013 08:40 Oxyoxygen wrote:Yeah not sure why all the EG hate they finished top 3 in almost every tournament in the few months before TI3 sure they didnt take first in any of them but still good results none the less. Thier competitive match elo on GG.net is still higher then fnatic, kp and dignitas. http://www.gosugamers.net/dota2/rankingsEG was also the last team that beat Alliance in a BO3 before their ongoing 19 match streak? Not sure how accurate that one is as i am again going off the gg.net match history. That's not a huge factor for the KP fans, who just want to see them there. Real concrete numbers are can be disputed by saying that KP would beat the current, unknown EG roster. Or you could point to EG pretty being off the map since the TI3 qualifiers and DEFINITELY since TI3. How do you compare match histories when one doesnt exist? I'm sorry, were their during that time that mattered? Does anyone care if they won a bunch of cups while everyone was ramping up for or TI3 or after words? So your argument is that EG deserves a slot because their current team MIGHT be as good as a Tier 2 western team? Cuz remember: WE HAVE NO FUCKING CLUE IF THEY HAVE EVEN PLAYED A SCRIM SINCE THEY LOST THE QUALIFIER FOR TI3. At the current juncture, EG doesnt even deserve an automatic slot over DIGNITAS, let alone KP.
very much agree with you, but itd still be awkward to give the slot to dignitas
imo, theyre pretty clear favorites to win the fall tournament, so if they were given a free slot, then the 2nd place team would presumably get the slot. at this point, i think EG is still better than any of the non-dignitas teams in the fall tourney
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On September 18 2013 09:05 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2013 09:03 Plansix wrote:On September 18 2013 08:57 Two_DoWn wrote:On September 18 2013 08:44 Plansix wrote:On September 18 2013 08:40 Oxyoxygen wrote:Yeah not sure why all the EG hate they finished top 3 in almost every tournament in the few months before TI3 sure they didnt take first in any of them but still good results none the less. Thier competitive match elo on GG.net is still higher then fnatic, kp and dignitas. http://www.gosugamers.net/dota2/rankingsEG was also the last team that beat Alliance in a BO3 before their ongoing 19 match streak? Not sure how accurate that one is as i am again going off the gg.net match history. That's not a huge factor for the KP fans, who just want to see them there. Real concrete numbers are can be disputed by saying that KP would beat the current, unknown EG roster. Or you could point to EG pretty being off the map since the TI3 qualifiers and DEFINITELY since TI3. How do you compare match histories when one doesnt exist? I'm sorry, were their during that time that mattered? Does anyone care if they won a bunch of cups while everyone was ramping up for or TI3 or after words? So your argument is that EG deserves a slot because their current team MIGHT be as good as a Tier 2 western team? Cuz remember: WE HAVE NO FUCKING CLUE IF THEY HAVE EVEN PLAYED A SCRIM SINCE THEY LOST THE QUALIFIER FOR TI3. At the current juncture, EG doesnt even deserve an automatic slot over DIGNITAS, let alone KP.
First of all, their last big tournament finish was nearly 2 months after the qualifier (The Defense, 3rd place, 7/24).
You're comparing 3 top 3 finishes at dreamhack, the defense, and TPL finals (which were less than 2 months ago) vs results in scrims. You are really being tunnel visioned if you can't see why MLG took EG over Kaipi. It's not as lopsided as you make it out to be, and it's not a conspiracy.
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On September 18 2013 09:05 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2013 09:03 Plansix wrote:On September 18 2013 08:57 Two_DoWn wrote:On September 18 2013 08:44 Plansix wrote:On September 18 2013 08:40 Oxyoxygen wrote:Yeah not sure why all the EG hate they finished top 3 in almost every tournament in the few months before TI3 sure they didnt take first in any of them but still good results none the less. Thier competitive match elo on GG.net is still higher then fnatic, kp and dignitas. http://www.gosugamers.net/dota2/rankingsEG was also the last team that beat Alliance in a BO3 before their ongoing 19 match streak? Not sure how accurate that one is as i am again going off the gg.net match history. That's not a huge factor for the KP fans, who just want to see them there. Real concrete numbers are can be disputed by saying that KP would beat the current, unknown EG roster. Or you could point to EG pretty being off the map since the TI3 qualifiers and DEFINITELY since TI3. How do you compare match histories when one doesnt exist? I'm sorry, were their during that time that mattered? Does anyone care if they won a bunch of cups while everyone was ramping up for or TI3 or after words? So your argument is that EG deserves a slot because their current team MIGHT be as good as a Tier 2 western team? Cuz remember: WE HAVE NO FUCKING CLUE IF THEY HAVE EVEN PLAYED A SCRIM SINCE THEY LOST THE QUALIFIER FOR TI3. At the current juncture, EG doesnt even deserve an automatic slot over DIGNITAS, let alone KP.
Except if you make it merit based there are a ton of other teams that should be invited over KP. Like all of TI3.
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On September 18 2013 09:05 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2013 09:03 Plansix wrote:On September 18 2013 08:57 Two_DoWn wrote:On September 18 2013 08:44 Plansix wrote:On September 18 2013 08:40 Oxyoxygen wrote:Yeah not sure why all the EG hate they finished top 3 in almost every tournament in the few months before TI3 sure they didnt take first in any of them but still good results none the less. Thier competitive match elo on GG.net is still higher then fnatic, kp and dignitas. http://www.gosugamers.net/dota2/rankingsEG was also the last team that beat Alliance in a BO3 before their ongoing 19 match streak? Not sure how accurate that one is as i am again going off the gg.net match history. That's not a huge factor for the KP fans, who just want to see them there. Real concrete numbers are can be disputed by saying that KP would beat the current, unknown EG roster. Or you could point to EG pretty being off the map since the TI3 qualifiers and DEFINITELY since TI3. How do you compare match histories when one doesnt exist? I'm sorry, were their during that time that mattered? Does anyone care if they won a bunch of cups while everyone was ramping up for or TI3 or after words? So your argument is that EG deserves a slot because their current team MIGHT be as good as a Tier 2 western team? Cuz remember: WE HAVE NO FUCKING CLUE IF THEY HAVE EVEN PLAYED A SCRIM SINCE THEY LOST THE QUALIFIER FOR TI3. At the current juncture, EG doesnt even deserve an automatic slot over DIGNITAS, let alone KP.
Let me break it down for you. Being a member of a prestigious organization like liquid or eg gets you shit that being KP with no organization backing them will not get. You know why? Because mlg trusts that liquid and eg as an organization will have a 5 man team at their event. Mlg does not trust a team of 20 year old kids with no organization backing them to not fuck something up and end up unable to attend. Like I just said if KP had complexity as a sponsor they would most likely secure an invite.
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Wow some serious team bashing in here. We don't even know where all the teams are coming from, much less who they are. Lets see how the tourney goes before we go pitchforking the teams who are invited over not invited.
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The argument that EG brass will definitely get a full team there has merit, as well as the fact that it is cheaper to bring 5 players from america/canada to columbus than it is to bring 2 americans and 3 europeans.
However, dont for a SECOND try to make the argument that EG is more deserving based on play. Its a laughable notion.
Hell, if MLG was basing this tournament purely on who was deserving of being able to play, the invited list would look like this:
Alliance
Navi
And thats it. Cuz no one else has a shot at this tournament. KP's cup play demonstrates some potential, but lack of lan experience is REALLY worrying. TL brings in the hottest scrim team (allegedly), and Fnatic is the most stable european team to not suck complete balls.
If this was based on play alone, EG doesnt get a spot.
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On September 18 2013 07:54 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2013 07:42 Plansix wrote:
Ok, KP fan boys, we get it. KP is god tier when it compared to anyone who wasn't in the finals of TI3. They are super awesome and should be invited because they would bring unlimited fans and girls thrown bras up onto the stage. We get it. Trust us, we get it. EG didnt make TI3, and if you want to argue TL should be there you need to go back to the unsubstantiated rumors that TL is the strongest western team in scrims at the moment, because they havent played enough following TI3 to show that their new lineup is ACTUALLY any good (because sorry, if you blow up your lineup, you need to prove your new one is as good as your last in order to actually get respect.)
If haven't followed the scene too closely since TI3, but afaik Kaipi doesn't have a finalized, complete roster either? Atleast from research I am doing atm I can only find four players on the roster. So, from your line of arguments, Kaipi isn't worthy of an invite either?
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On September 18 2013 09:24 Serinox wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2013 07:54 Two_DoWn wrote:On September 18 2013 07:42 Plansix wrote:
Ok, KP fan boys, we get it. KP is god tier when it compared to anyone who wasn't in the finals of TI3. They are super awesome and should be invited because they would bring unlimited fans and girls thrown bras up onto the stage. We get it. Trust us, we get it. EG didnt make TI3, and if you want to argue TL should be there you need to go back to the unsubstantiated rumors that TL is the strongest western team in scrims at the moment, because they havent played enough following TI3 to show that their new lineup is ACTUALLY any good (because sorry, if you blow up your lineup, you need to prove your new one is as good as your last in order to actually get respect.) If haven't followed the scene too closely since TI3, but afaik Kaipi doesn't have a finalized, complete roster either? Atleast from research I am doing atm I can only find four players on the roster. So, from your line of arguments, Kaipi isn't worthy of an invite either?
Aui_2000 is on the team and has been since TI3. It isnt announced because contracts arent all up yet for players.
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On September 18 2013 09:26 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2013 09:24 Serinox wrote:On September 18 2013 07:54 Two_DoWn wrote:On September 18 2013 07:42 Plansix wrote:
Ok, KP fan boys, we get it. KP is god tier when it compared to anyone who wasn't in the finals of TI3. They are super awesome and should be invited because they would bring unlimited fans and girls thrown bras up onto the stage. We get it. Trust us, we get it. EG didnt make TI3, and if you want to argue TL should be there you need to go back to the unsubstantiated rumors that TL is the strongest western team in scrims at the moment, because they havent played enough following TI3 to show that their new lineup is ACTUALLY any good (because sorry, if you blow up your lineup, you need to prove your new one is as good as your last in order to actually get respect.) If haven't followed the scene too closely since TI3, but afaik Kaipi doesn't have a finalized, complete roster either? Atleast from research I am doing atm I can only find four players on the roster. So, from your line of arguments, Kaipi isn't worthy of an invite either? Aui_2000 is on the team and has been since TI3. It isnt announced because contracts arent all up yet for players.
Oh yeah, forgot about him. I hate this unofficial/official talk about roster, damnit, I want to see some finalized stuff.
Anyways, I still don't get why people like Kaipi so much and I'd say not inviting them is the right thing to do. And how anyone can say that Kaipi would deserve a spot more than Liquid is just beyond me tbh.
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KP has no organization backing them, they are in my eyes unreliable. They have also brought upon them many controversies in the past. EE is completely shady, he has the win at all cost attitude and would break rules just to win. I've seen the KP fan boy argue "rules are meant to be broken" but that premise is complete bullshit.
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United Kingdom24425 Posts
On September 18 2013 08:57 Two_DoWn wrote:And if you are EG, you know MLG has to bring [A] if they want to be seen as having a torunament with the best in the world, is there any chance in HELL that EG doesnt say "sure, we will send [A], but you also have to take our branded team so we get our name out there." I'm going to go ahead and say the chance of that not happening is 100%.
I'm sorry but this is some pure BS being stirred right here, you have no reason to believe they would do this and you don't seem to comprehend the myriad of other reasons for EG's invite. Honestly if it wasn't said with such conviction I would have assumed you were joking.
MLG is running an NA event. MLG contacts the 3 major NA Dota teams. Dignitas is playing in the league already. Liquid say they will go. EG say they will go. All 3 organisations MLG can trust to cover a team to travel to their event.
Or you know we can take it your way.
Alex Garfield says 'fuck no, I'm not sending one of my teams to the potentially biggest tournament outside of TI this year in the west because you won't take my other team'.
You're insane.
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On September 18 2013 09:49 teapoted wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2013 08:57 Two_DoWn wrote:And if you are EG, you know MLG has to bring [A] if they want to be seen as having a torunament with the best in the world, is there any chance in HELL that EG doesnt say "sure, we will send [A], but you also have to take our branded team so we get our name out there." I'm going to go ahead and say the chance of that not happening is 100%. I'm sorry but this is some pure BS being stirred right here, you have no reason to believe they would do this and you don't seem to comprehend the myriad of other reasons for EG's invite. Honestly if it wasn't said with such conviction I would have assumed you were joking. MLG is running an NA event. MLG contacts the 3 major NA Dota teams. Dignitas is playing in the league already. Liquid say they will go. EG say they will go. All 3 organisations MLG can trust to cover a team to travel to their event. Or you know we can take it your way. Alex Garfield says 'fuck no, I'm not sending one of my teams to the potentially biggest tournament outside of TI this year in the west because you won't take my other team'. You're insane.
It's that dirty EG money, didn't you know. They planed this from the start to discredit KP. Then when they disband, Garfield will pick up the players. It's all part of the plan for EG to run everything and rule Esports city.
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On September 18 2013 09:57 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2013 09:49 teapoted wrote:On September 18 2013 08:57 Two_DoWn wrote:And if you are EG, you know MLG has to bring [A] if they want to be seen as having a torunament with the best in the world, is there any chance in HELL that EG doesnt say "sure, we will send [A], but you also have to take our branded team so we get our name out there." I'm going to go ahead and say the chance of that not happening is 100%. I'm sorry but this is some pure BS being stirred right here, you have no reason to believe they would do this and you don't seem to comprehend the myriad of other reasons for EG's invite. Honestly if it wasn't said with such conviction I would have assumed you were joking. MLG is running an NA event. MLG contacts the 3 major NA Dota teams. Dignitas is playing in the league already. Liquid say they will go. EG say they will go. All 3 organisations MLG can trust to cover a team to travel to their event. Or you know we can take it your way. Alex Garfield says 'fuck no, I'm not sending one of my teams to the potentially biggest tournament outside of TI this year in the west because you won't take my other team'. You're insane. It's that dirty EG money, didn't you know. They planed this from the start to discredit KP. Then when they disband, Garfield will pick up the players. It's all part of the plan for EG to run everything and rule Esports city.
Don't forget that Loda told MLG specifically not to invite kaipi so he doesn't have to deal with the awkwardness of speaking to EE ever again. Beyond that Alex Garfield and Sundance are both members of the same chapter of the illuminati. !!!
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Thats all fine.
But what reason does MLG have to invite EG? They already have the stronger NA teams, and the EU teams who are stronger than their NA ones.
From a marketing standpoint (which is what the tournament IS for MLG: they need big names for marketing), what reason is there for EG to be there FOR MLG?
For EG? They get their actual brand out there. MLG doesnt NEED EG to validtate the tournament. They had that when they got Navi. They dont NEED EG for viewers, they got that from inviting Navi.
So what does the EG team give MLG, other than a tier 2.5 team that will be cheap to fly out there?
Because the only thing that EG is, at this moment, is a relatively cheap placeholder so that MLG can have an 8 team tournament without spending a lot of money. Sure, technically EG is better than an unknown team coming from an offline qualifier, but do you really have any higher expectations for EG at this tournament than you would (insert name here)? Imma go out on a limb and say no.
So yes, I suppose MLG technically could have invited EG without a package deal for Alliance, but then you have to assume that the EG brand is worth 5 flights and 5 hotel rooms to Columbus, when otherwise MLG could AVOID spending that money by just having a BYOC qualifier. Even if it is an NA tournament, you are looking at a tier 1 outlay of capital for a tier 2 (at best) team, with NOWHERE near the following that they had a year ago, and an even more minuscule impact compared to [A] and Navi. Hate to break it to you, but EG isnt getting american fans excited.
Honestly, I dont think the EG brand, when weighed against that outlay of capital, is worth it. You might differ on that opinion, but that is the basic thing that we have a disagreement about.
I dont think EG has enough value to justify 5 flights, 5 hotel rooms, and a weekend of meals if you are MLG
You do.
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Ooo, Fnatic invited? Guess Ill tune in, and maybe pay ppv, if there is one.
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I think EG is better and has more fans than you give them credit for
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EPT
