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On May 23 2012 11:20 nonsequitur wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 10:22 vanTuni wrote:
I'm not saying that this is a great to design the game. But really... people need to consider wtf they are talking about in all these replies. Blizz stated that every Act in Inferno would require a new tier of items. Just as hell required a higher tier than nightmare. So ..basically if you die instantly in act2 inferno with gear mostly from the end of hell, is like dying with gear from normal mode in hell. would people consider that weird? no.
The problem is all the gear in the world will not enable you to kill these mobs. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/1xVUU.png) Good luck surviving 3x desecrate that together ticks for 75k+/sec
No, the problem is that people haven't had enough time to find the gear that's needed.
This thread is so fucking pointless. Balance discussion about a game that's not even competitive.... what? really? Guys, Super Mario Bros. is imbalanced because you have limited continues. Unless of course you spend a lot of time playing it, in which case the game becomes balanced again because you understand the flaws in your play.
Crimson Bison, you've honestly done nothing for this thread but troll and de-rail it into a shit fest. I'm glad you got warned because I've read your posts, and you're just as bad as the people you're criticizing. I'm not going ot say that Diablo 3 is the best game every because A) That would be stupid to say, and B) It's an opinon. If someone said wiping their ass was the best feeling ever, you would probably disagree and come up with reasons why it's not... but that wouldn't mean anything because it will always be the best thing to them.
Also, I'm going to use the argument that the game has been out for A FUCKING WEEK. Do you realize that people didn't even come up with even an 8th of the shit that is known in Diablo 2 until YEARS AFTER? Just like Broodwar; Just like Street Fighter IV (or SFxT); Just like Smash Bros. Brawl or Melee; Just like every other fucking game out there, it takes time to figure shit out. So before you go around saying that stats are fucked up, or that there only a certain amount of viable builds, you need to realize that it's STILL going to take even the best players a lot of fucking time to understand how to perfect the game and play style.
Every game takes time to figure out - Things are no different than when the Atari was around, or the Super Nes, or the Dreamcast or Xbox. Just because there are millions of nerds out there, doesn't mean that they all have the collective knowledge of everyone.
As a side note: I do like Diablo 3, but i'm not explaining this all to you just because I like the game - I'm explaining it because I'm so fucking sick and tired of reading the same fucking argument when a new game comes out - "OMG THIS IS IMBA" "THIS GAME SUCKS BECAUSE THE SYSTEMS ARE FUCKED" "BLIZZARD/VALVE/BETHESDA/HAL/CAPCOM ARE LOSING THEIR TOUCH." All of these things might be true, but we're going to have to wait till a lot of time has passed, and people have time to actually sit down and look at the game for what it is - That includes the haters.
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On May 23 2012 12:43 hoby2000 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 11:20 nonsequitur wrote:On May 23 2012 10:22 vanTuni wrote:
I'm not saying that this is a great to design the game. But really... people need to consider wtf they are talking about in all these replies. Blizz stated that every Act in Inferno would require a new tier of items. Just as hell required a higher tier than nightmare. So ..basically if you die instantly in act2 inferno with gear mostly from the end of hell, is like dying with gear from normal mode in hell. would people consider that weird? no.
The problem is all the gear in the world will not enable you to kill these mobs. Good luck surviving 3x desecrate that together ticks for 75k+/sec No, the problem is that people haven't had enough time to find the gear that's needed. This thread is so fucking pointless. Balance discussion about a game that's not even competitive.... what? really? Guys, Super Mario Bros. is imbalanced because you have limited continues. Unless of course you spend a lot of time playing it, in which case the game becomes balanced again because you understand the flaws in your play. Crimson Bison, you've honestly done nothing for this thread but troll and de-rail it into a shit fest. I'm glad you got warned because I've read your posts, and you're just as bad as the people you're criticizing. I'm not going ot say that Diablo 3 is the best game every because A) That would be stupid to say, and B) It's an opinon. If someone said wiping their ass was the best feeling ever, you would probably disagree and come up with reasons why it's not... but that wouldn't mean anything because it will always be the best thing to them. Also, I'm going to use the argument that the game has been out for A FUCKING WEEK. Do you realize that people didn't even come up with even an 8th of the shit that is known in Diablo 2 until YEARS AFTER? Just like Broodwar; Just like Street Fighter IV (or SFxT); Just like Smash Bros. Brawl or Melee; Just like every other fucking game out there, it takes time to figure shit out. So before you go around saying that stats are fucked up, or that there only a certain amount of viable builds, you need to realize that it's STILL going to take even the best players a lot of fucking time to understand how to perfect the game and play style. Every game takes time to figure out - Things are no different than when the Atari was around, or the Super Nes, or the Dreamcast or Xbox. Just because there are millions of nerds out there, doesn't mean that they all have the collective knowledge of everyone. As a side note: I do like Diablo 3, but i'm not explaining this all to you just because I like the game - I'm explaining it because I'm so fucking sick and tired of reading the same fucking argument when a new game comes out - "OMG THIS IS IMBA" "THIS GAME SUCKS BECAUSE THE SYSTEMS ARE FUCKED" "BLIZZARD/VALVE/BETHESDA/HAL/CAPCOM ARE LOSING THEIR TOUCH." All of these things might be true, but we're going to have to wait till a lot of time has passed, and people have time to actually sit down and look at the game for what it is - That includes the haters.
The difference between games back then and games now is the extreme amount of information and media allowing much more sharing of information. When Super Gamer Force beats a boss, they have a tutorial video up within a week.
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On May 23 2012 12:43 hoby2000 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 11:20 nonsequitur wrote:On May 23 2012 10:22 vanTuni wrote:
I'm not saying that this is a great to design the game. But really... people need to consider wtf they are talking about in all these replies. Blizz stated that every Act in Inferno would require a new tier of items. Just as hell required a higher tier than nightmare. So ..basically if you die instantly in act2 inferno with gear mostly from the end of hell, is like dying with gear from normal mode in hell. would people consider that weird? no.
The problem is all the gear in the world will not enable you to kill these mobs. Good luck surviving 3x desecrate that together ticks for 75k+/sec No, the problem is that people haven't had enough time to find the gear that's needed. This thread is so fucking pointless. Balance discussion about a game that's not even competitive.... what? really? Guys, Super Mario Bros. is imbalanced because you have limited continues. Unless of course you spend a lot of time playing it, in which case the game becomes balanced again because you understand the flaws in your play. Crimson Bison, you've honestly done nothing for this thread but troll and de-rail it into a shit fest. I'm glad you got warned because I've read your posts, and you're just as bad as the people you're criticizing. I'm not going ot say that Diablo 3 is the best game every because A) That would be stupid to say, and B) It's an opinon. If someone said wiping their ass was the best feeling ever, you would probably disagree and come up with reasons why it's not... but that wouldn't mean anything because it will always be the best thing to them. Also, I'm going to use the argument that the game has been out for A FUCKING WEEK. Do you realize that people didn't even come up with even an 8th of the shit that is known in Diablo 2 until YEARS AFTER? Just like Broodwar; Just like Street Fighter IV (or SFxT); Just like Smash Bros. Brawl or Melee; Just like every other fucking game out there, it takes time to figure shit out. So before you go around saying that stats are fucked up, or that there only a certain amount of viable builds, you need to realize that it's STILL going to take even the best players a lot of fucking time to understand how to perfect the game and play style. Every game takes time to figure out - Things are no different than when the Atari was around, or the Super Nes, or the Dreamcast or Xbox. Just because there are millions of nerds out there, doesn't mean that they all have the collective knowledge of everyone. As a side note: I do like Diablo 3, but i'm not explaining this all to you just because I like the game - I'm explaining it because I'm so fucking sick and tired of reading the same fucking argument when a new game comes out - "OMG THIS IS IMBA" "THIS GAME SUCKS BECAUSE THE SYSTEMS ARE FUCKED" "BLIZZARD/VALVE/BETHESDA/HAL/CAPCOM ARE LOSING THEIR TOUCH." All of these things might be true, but we're going to have to wait till a lot of time has passed, and people have time to actually sit down and look at the game for what it is - That includes the haters.
I hate it when fanboys always use "give it more time" ... if its not there its not going to get any better... Why do all blizzard games go backward in time. what happend to all the experience they learned from previous games and build upon them? why is Bnet 2.0 for D3 and Sc2 a joke and we are in 2012. And why can we find so many flaws in D3 in less than a weeks time when the developers had 10 years time to review. Without criticism no improvement will come and blizzard will keep releasing trash games with trash interface like Bnet 2.0
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On May 23 2012 10:22 vanTuni wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 09:58 nonsequitur wrote:
There certain elites in Inferno that are just flatout unbeatable and should be removed or retuned. Elites that come with suffixes like "Desecrator, Vortex, Frozen, Fast". It doesn't matter how good your gear is. Once you get caught in a vortex/frozen/descrate combo you are dead. Having unkillable mobs in the game does not make it more difficult or fun. It makes it annoying and frustrating. I'm not saying that this is a great to design the game. But really... people need to consider wtf they are talking about in all these replies. Blizz stated that every Act in Inferno would require a new tier of items. Just as hell required a higher tier than nightmare. So ..basically if you die instantly in act2 inferno with gear mostly from the end of hell, is like dying with gear from normal mode in hell. would people consider that weird? no.
People are dying in A2 inferno with items from A3/4 inferno.
No amount of gear will allow you to survive some enemies.
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On May 23 2012 13:03 Dfgj wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 10:22 vanTuni wrote:On May 23 2012 09:58 nonsequitur wrote:
There certain elites in Inferno that are just flatout unbeatable and should be removed or retuned. Elites that come with suffixes like "Desecrator, Vortex, Frozen, Fast". It doesn't matter how good your gear is. Once you get caught in a vortex/frozen/descrate combo you are dead. Having unkillable mobs in the game does not make it more difficult or fun. It makes it annoying and frustrating. I'm not saying that this is a great to design the game. But really... people need to consider wtf they are talking about in all these replies. Blizz stated that every Act in Inferno would require a new tier of items. Just as hell required a higher tier than nightmare. So ..basically if you die instantly in act2 inferno with gear mostly from the end of hell, is like dying with gear from normal mode in hell. would people consider that weird? no. People are dying in A2 inferno with items from A3/4 inferno. No amount of gear will allow you to survive some enemies.
You got a full set of -elite damage legendary armor yeah?
Come back and cry 'balance wah' when you have it.
Seriously the game is FAR too random (in terms of items available as drops) to make any balance 'discussions' only a week in.
I sense spoilt children coming from an environment where best in slot is handed to them with mints.
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You realize legendaries are total trash compared to blue/rares right hkf? No the game is far to limited in terms of mods to even take a week before discussing it.
Balance discussion from people who haven't even beaten inferno seems to run rampant...
No they aren't handed to you, best in slots are bought on the AH after an hour or two of farming gold.
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On May 23 2012 13:22 NotSorry wrote:
You realize legendaries are total trash compared to blue/rares right hkf? No the game is far to limited in terms of mods to even take a week before discussing it.
Balance discussion from people who haven't even beaten inferno seems to run rampant...
No they aren't handed to you, best in slots are bought on the AH after an hour or two of farming gold.
just wait... he hasnt realized that yet... once people realize the fact that there is no drive to keep playing they ll stop.
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On May 22 2012 21:59 nomsayin wrote:
Once I got to late nightmare and hell my Barbarian became worthless. I wouldn't say being undergeared is the problem. I have level 50+ gear twice as good as anything in the auction house because there aren't enough people that high up (I'm playing harcore). The thing about Barbs is that they are melee but can't tank at later difficulties. However, this is not a Melee issue. I would argue that Monk is the best class in the game, but is absolutely superior to the Barbarian.. If you're interested, please read on for a quick explanation of why this is the case.
First, dodge and armor both have diminishing returns, and Barbarians have tons of armor boosts but they are overkill, and the skills offer no help with dodge. Second, there's also no skills to help get high resistances, which are essential for fighting off elemental damage in hell.
On the other hand, Monks get dodge from their primary attribute, dexterity, and a good armor rating that naturally comes with high level gear. They have passive which matches their resistances to all types of damage (including physical) to their single highest resistance. To top it off, they have multiple active healing and passive healing skills, a resistance boosting passive, and even a god mode skill, which makes you temporarily invincible and escapes from all stuns. It's simply very difficult to die as a monk, and if you do he might still live to fight another day (http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/monk/passive/near-death-experience).
You can see how this makes the Monk much stronger than the Barbarian later in the game. Especially considering that I play hard core, there is no reason for me to play a squishy Barbarian who can't solo trashmobs in hell when I can lead a group or solo with a Monk. For these reasons, I've given up on my barb until other players make it through hell and start selling gear in the AH. I started a Monk and I'll continue playing that.
TLDR: Monks are very strong in late difficulties, while Barbarians can't even tank trashmobs.
Lol this is so not true. Barbs tank hell just fine.
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I've had barb tanks do relatively fine in act 4 inferno groups
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On May 23 2012 13:22 NotSorry wrote:
You realize legendaries are total trash compared to blue/rares right hkf? No the game is far to limited in terms of mods to even take a week before discussing it.
Balance discussion from people who haven't even beaten inferno seems to run rampant...
No they aren't handed to you, best in slots are bought on the AH after an hour or two of farming gold.
total trash? when a blue can have X affixes and a legendary can have Y affixes with a bunch of bonus stats?
If you're talking about base stats..
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United States47024 Posts
On May 23 2012 13:40 hkf wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 13:22 NotSorry wrote:
You realize legendaries are total trash compared to blue/rares right hkf? No the game is far to limited in terms of mods to even take a week before discussing it.
Balance discussion from people who haven't even beaten inferno seems to run rampant...
No they aren't handed to you, best in slots are bought on the AH after an hour or two of farming gold. total trash? when a blue can have X affixes and a legendary can have Y affixes with a bunch of bonus stats? If you're talking about base stats..
Have you seen Inferno rares/blues?
The bonuses on their random properties are way overtuned compared to the fixed bonus stats of Legendaries atm.
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On May 23 2012 13:43 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 13:40 hkf wrote:On May 23 2012 13:22 NotSorry wrote:
You realize legendaries are total trash compared to blue/rares right hkf? No the game is far to limited in terms of mods to even take a week before discussing it.
Balance discussion from people who haven't even beaten inferno seems to run rampant...
No they aren't handed to you, best in slots are bought on the AH after an hour or two of farming gold. total trash? when a blue can have X affixes and a legendary can have Y affixes with a bunch of bonus stats? If you're talking about base stats.. Have you seen Inferno rares/blues? The bonuses on their random properties are way overtuned compared to the fixed bonus stats of Legendaries atm.
Yes I have. And I own a few inferno legendaries.
if its a case of the affixes being COMPLETELY different, then yes, fix.
yes, my inferno legendaries all suck. wand with str? seriously -_-
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You really should do a little more research before coming into a topic like this yelling at people for being terrible and having no clue about how the game works.
But yea it needs a lot of fixing indeed
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I need to bookmark this thread so I can laugh about it in a few months 
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On May 23 2012 14:03 snowbird wrote:I need to bookmark this thread so I can laugh about it in a few months
You mean when blizzard finally realized how badly they fucked up and completely rehaul the game? Not sure I'll be laughing but I'll be happy.
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it feels as if they have made the melee classes impsosible to play at higher difficulties. There is no skill that monks can use for kiting, so they are reduced to nothing except restarting. And before you say fix the gear it really is not the problem, doubling your DPS doesn't help when you still get 1shot.
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People are dying in A2 inferno with items from A3/4 inferno.
No amount of gear will allow you to survive some enemies.
Idunno if I'd say "no amount of gear."
Blizzard's take - if I understand it correctly - is that you're supposed to farm Act 1 Inferno for months before moving on to Act 2. This is the late-game that we're talking about, after all. If you're not wearing gear whose affixes (and the values for each) are within a few ticks of the theoretical optimum, you should be getting curb-stomped.
I'd be irate if people weren't getting wrecked in the second half of Inferno after only a few days of farming, personally.
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On May 23 2012 13:03 [Crimson]Bason wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 12:43 hoby2000 wrote:On May 23 2012 11:20 nonsequitur wrote:On May 23 2012 10:22 vanTuni wrote:
I'm not saying that this is a great to design the game. But really... people need to consider wtf they are talking about in all these replies. Blizz stated that every Act in Inferno would require a new tier of items. Just as hell required a higher tier than nightmare. So ..basically if you die instantly in act2 inferno with gear mostly from the end of hell, is like dying with gear from normal mode in hell. would people consider that weird? no.
The problem is all the gear in the world will not enable you to kill these mobs. Good luck surviving 3x desecrate that together ticks for 75k+/sec No, the problem is that people haven't had enough time to find the gear that's needed. This thread is so fucking pointless. Balance discussion about a game that's not even competitive.... what? really? Guys, Super Mario Bros. is imbalanced because you have limited continues. Unless of course you spend a lot of time playing it, in which case the game becomes balanced again because you understand the flaws in your play. Crimson Bison, you've honestly done nothing for this thread but troll and de-rail it into a shit fest. I'm glad you got warned because I've read your posts, and you're just as bad as the people you're criticizing. I'm not going ot say that Diablo 3 is the best game every because A) That would be stupid to say, and B) It's an opinon. If someone said wiping their ass was the best feeling ever, you would probably disagree and come up with reasons why it's not... but that wouldn't mean anything because it will always be the best thing to them. Also, I'm going to use the argument that the game has been out for A FUCKING WEEK. Do you realize that people didn't even come up with even an 8th of the shit that is known in Diablo 2 until YEARS AFTER? Just like Broodwar; Just like Street Fighter IV (or SFxT); Just like Smash Bros. Brawl or Melee; Just like every other fucking game out there, it takes time to figure shit out. So before you go around saying that stats are fucked up, or that there only a certain amount of viable builds, you need to realize that it's STILL going to take even the best players a lot of fucking time to understand how to perfect the game and play style. Every game takes time to figure out - Things are no different than when the Atari was around, or the Super Nes, or the Dreamcast or Xbox. Just because there are millions of nerds out there, doesn't mean that they all have the collective knowledge of everyone. As a side note: I do like Diablo 3, but i'm not explaining this all to you just because I like the game - I'm explaining it because I'm so fucking sick and tired of reading the same fucking argument when a new game comes out - "OMG THIS IS IMBA" "THIS GAME SUCKS BECAUSE THE SYSTEMS ARE FUCKED" "BLIZZARD/VALVE/BETHESDA/HAL/CAPCOM ARE LOSING THEIR TOUCH." All of these things might be true, but we're going to have to wait till a lot of time has passed, and people have time to actually sit down and look at the game for what it is - That includes the haters. I hate it when fanboys always use "give it more time" ... if its not there its not going to get any better... Why do all blizzard games go backward in time. what happend to all the experience they learned from previous games and build upon them? why is Bnet 2.0 for D3 and Sc2 a joke and we are in 2012. And why can we find so many flaws in D3 in less than a weeks time when the developers had 10 years time to review. Without criticism no improvement will come and blizzard will keep releasing trash games with trash interface like Bnet 2.0
I hate when people don't give things time for them to be studied. If we were in medieval days, you would be one of those people claiming something was witchcraft a week after it was discovered.
EDIT: Also, it's painfully obvious that you didn't actually comprehend my post. Multiple games have had the same shit said about them, and a lot of them end up being great games in the end. It sounds like you're more of a Diablo 2 fan boy than me being a blizzard fan boy. I'm all for criticisms, but not of only a week's worth of studying.
Also, I think SC2 is a great game. It's not Broodwar, and it's not suppose to be. It has flaws, especially the Bnet 0.2 interface, but I wouldn't consider the interface of battle.net as part of the gameplay of SC2.
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On May 23 2012 14:08 NotSorry wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 14:03 snowbird wrote:I need to bookmark this thread so I can laugh about it in a few months You mean when blizzard finally realized how badly they fucked up and completely rehaul the game? Not sure I'll be laughing but I'll be happy.
Wishful thinking. That is never going to happen.
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On May 23 2012 14:23 hoby2000 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 14:08 NotSorry wrote:On May 23 2012 14:03 snowbird wrote:I need to bookmark this thread so I can laugh about it in a few months You mean when blizzard finally realized how badly they fucked up and completely rehaul the game? Not sure I'll be laughing but I'll be happy. Wishful thinking. That is never going to happen.
Yea, just like Diablo 2 kept the same skill and item mechanics all throughout it's lifetime. O wait...
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EPT
