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On August 28 2012 02:19 NTTemplar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2012 01:41 Kazeyonoma wrote:I'm trying my best to update my char to the more modern barb (i used to be a pure tank based one but my dps was just so low that I couldn't kill stuff fast enough and relied on insanity/wotb + earthquake to burst down elites, and if they didn't die in that time frame, i basically was in for a rough time...) I'm loving my current build, and i sac'd a lot of vit to gain more str, and with the whirlwind/crit/sprint spec, i've been able to kill stuff much more quickly, i'm mostly working on updating pieces to maintain my str level and gain some vit again so i'm back up around 35k when i can. I was running around 25k at one point and that was simply too dangerous. My current budget though isn't great, i probably have 10 mill total, but can probably farm more if I give myself a goal, I'm just a bit lost about what to do, and waht pieces to update that would have a good enough impact. I know my offhand should be more stat-stick oriented to have more crit damage/etc, but no matter how i plug things into a stat calculator, because of the high dps of the offhand I have now, it beats out any type of statstick i can find that's affordable (i have a dagger that has a socket, totaling over 125 crit damage, and 150 or so str on it, but equipping it drops my dps by 9000!) I'd also like to squeeze in some more life on hit if possible since mine has dipped to 897 or so from 1400.... I just bought the boots/pants as vit upgrades (maintained str levels). I imagine my bulkathos and kymbos deserves the most upgrading now but I dunno what stats to look for and what prices things should be at? help? Thanks a ton guys edit: whoops forgot my link: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Kazeyonoma-1662/hero/14226 Damage is incredibly missleading to look at when it comes to off hand for a WW barb. Your damage SHOULD drop, since the damage calculates your main and off hand, but WW and sprint use only main hand. The damage calculator isn't smart enough to understand that your specific builds damage comes 90% from main hand.
Sprint uses only main hand, while WW alternates between mainhand and offhand. Sprint will be doing most of your damage, so a high dps offhand is not all that important
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ah thanks a ton, yeah i noticed my 'damage' shows 30k or so when battle furied, but when i'm whirlwinding around with sprint, the numbers flying are in the 45k range.
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On August 28 2012 03:27 Kazeyonoma wrote:
ah thanks a ton, yeah i noticed my 'damage' shows 30k or so when battle furied, but when i'm whirlwinding around with sprint, the numbers flying are in the 45k range.
the numbers you see on the info and the numbers in you see differ for so many reasons.
The DPS number shown is the average DPS including crits etc.
This would only be the same as you see in the game if you have exactly 1 attack/ second, don't have any crit chance and use some spell that does exactly 100% dmg. Of course that never happens.
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figured as much, just was surprised by how much of a difference the offhand dps mattered when everywhere I read said it was basically a stat stick, even in calculators i found online so I thought i must've been doing something wrong.
Gotta bump up that crit chance and crit damage somehow... hrm
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On August 28 2012 00:49 NTTemplar wrote:
OK, is this right, core build is sprint, WW, battle rage, WoTB, warcry? then last slot is personal choice.
Also so far I am considering the mempto helmet, tyrael's might chest, fire walker boots; should I go for them or are there better choices?
I believe the Andariel's Visage would be stronger than the mempto helmet. The proc is really really good - just be sure to get one with a high proc chance.
Also noticed Stone of jordan from last poster, any thoughts on that one?
Doesn't look worth the money to me. Getting huge +dmg% to demons isnt worth giving up huge damage to everything.
Also for stats, on e.g. the fire walkers, should I prioritize higher str, all resist or vita on them? Searches so far seem to be that I can get 200+ str and 100+ vit but no all resist, or 150+ str, 50+ all resist and 50+ vit (guessing this is the best choice?)
I'd get the 200+str and 100+ vit ones, definitely. People overrate all resistance; it's important, but it's not as important as people make out. You'd be missing out on a lot of stats to get the all resist, and you can make it up elsewhere. Use an effective HP calculator, if in doubt ( http://tinyurl.com/bvv495m ).
Here is a link to my barb. I'd consider her gear to be pretty excellent; I can decimate all of act 3 rarely/never dying, and my AR is lower than many would consider the minimum.
EDIT: duh, forgot link: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Hairy-1750/hero/2281818
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On August 28 2012 01:41 Kazeyonoma wrote:
I know my offhand should be more stat-stick oriented to have more crit damage/etc, but no matter how i plug things into a stat calculator, because of the high dps of the offhand I have now, it beats out any type of statstick i can find that's affordable (i have a dagger that has a socket, totaling over 125 crit damage, and 150 or so str on it, but equipping it drops my dps by 9000!)
Use the dagger! Read earlier posts for why a dagger kicks bottom.
The in-game character DPS, and stat calculators all assume you are using your weapons equally; you are not. The vast majority of whirlwind barbs' damage comes from the mainhand weapon only (80%+).
EDIT: read further posts; given that your dagger ALSO has 500 LOH, it's the clear winner by a long, long shot.
I'd also like to squeeze in some more life on hit if possible since mine has dipped to 897 or so from 1400....
Sounds like a good idea. I wouldn't be comfortable going much lower than my current 1091 LOH, and I have over 2.0 attack speed.
I just bought the boots/pants as vit upgrades (maintained str levels). I imagine my bulkathos and kymbos deserves the most upgrading now but I dunno what stats to look for and what prices things should be at? help? Thanks a ton guys edit: whoops forgot my link: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Kazeyonoma-1662/hero/14226
The most alarming thing to me is your health - 31.5k is extremely, extremely low. It's probably a little more bearable now they nerfed inferno again, but I would absolutely suggest upping your health to at 40k at an absolute minimum.
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Been playing around with a ton of different builds this weekend, WW without overpower (cleave/bash instead), rend builds, dual wield, 2 hander and sword'n'board variants. Came up with really fun one:
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#aeVikR!WYZ!ZbabcY
It's basically a Seismic Slam build that abuses critical hits for massive fury generation so you can spam the hell out of it. I found the original idea in a random post on the bnet forums but spent a few days refining it so even someone in awful gear (i'll post my profile link once I get home) such as myself can get through act3. It's really fun, you play almost as a ranged character. I'll do a skill break down as some of the skill choices initially seem wonky, ie, no Wrath of the bersker on a fury generation build, and bash with onslaught as your right click fury generator.
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On August 28 2012 04:00 Hairy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2012 00:49 NTTemplar wrote:
OK, is this right, core build is sprint, WW, battle rage, WoTB, warcry? then last slot is personal choice.
Also so far I am considering the mempto helmet, tyrael's might chest, fire walker boots; should I go for them or are there better choices? I believe the Andariel's Visage would be stronger than the mempto helmet. The proc is really really good - just be sure to get one with a high proc chance. Doesn't look worth the money to me. Getting huge +dmg% to demons isnt worth giving up huge damage to everything. Show nested quote +Also for stats, on e.g. the fire walkers, should I prioritize higher str, all resist or vita on them? Searches so far seem to be that I can get 200+ str and 100+ vit but no all resist, or 150+ str, 50+ all resist and 50+ vit (guessing this is the best choice?) I'd get the 200+str and 100+ vit ones, definitely. People overrate all resistance; it's important, but it's not as important as people make out. You'd be missing out on a lot of stats to get the all resist, and you can make it up elsewhere. Use an effective HP calculator, if in doubt ( http://tinyurl.com/bvv495m ). Here is a link to my barb. I'd consider her gear to be pretty excellent; I can decimate all of act 3 rarely/never dying, and my AR is lower than many would consider the minimum. EDIT: duh, forgot link: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Hairy-1750/hero/2281818
EHP and EHP calculators are not everything, LoH get's better with higher all res and you can't exclusively calculate which item gives you better EHP anyway if you are still upgrading other items as well.
Choosing between boots with 200str 100vit or 150str 50vit 50 all res the latter is probably better for a build with warcry and life on hit.
Your barb would almost surely be better if it geared some more all res instead of vitality as well.
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On August 28 2012 04:07 Hairy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2012 01:41 Kazeyonoma wrote:
I know my offhand should be more stat-stick oriented to have more crit damage/etc, but no matter how i plug things into a stat calculator, because of the high dps of the offhand I have now, it beats out any type of statstick i can find that's affordable (i have a dagger that has a socket, totaling over 125 crit damage, and 150 or so str on it, but equipping it drops my dps by 9000!)
Use the dagger! Read earlier posts for why a dagger kicks bottom. The in-game character DPS, and stat calculators all assume you are using your weapons equally; you are not. The vast majority of whirlwind barbs' damage comes from the mainhand weapon only (80%+). EDIT: read further posts; given that your dagger ALSO has 500 LOH, it's the clear winner by a long, long shot. Show nested quote +I'd also like to squeeze in some more life on hit if possible since mine has dipped to 897 or so from 1400.... Sounds like a good idea. I wouldn't be comfortable going much lower than my current 1091 LOH, and I have over 2.0 attack speed. The most alarming thing to me is your health - 31.5k is extremely, extremely low. It's probably a little more bearable now they nerfed inferno again, but I would absolutely suggest upping your health to at 40k at an absolute minimum.
Yeah i've been trying to find just super high vit items like my new boots/pants to help supplement my hp plummet. I'll work on replacing what I can to gain even more vit while maintaining my current str levels,
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On August 28 2012 04:50 Markwerf wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2012 04:00 Hairy wrote:On August 28 2012 00:49 NTTemplar wrote:
OK, is this right, core build is sprint, WW, battle rage, WoTB, warcry? then last slot is personal choice.
Also so far I am considering the mempto helmet, tyrael's might chest, fire walker boots; should I go for them or are there better choices? I believe the Andariel's Visage would be stronger than the mempto helmet. The proc is really really good - just be sure to get one with a high proc chance. Also noticed Stone of jordan from last poster, any thoughts on that one? Doesn't look worth the money to me. Getting huge +dmg% to demons isnt worth giving up huge damage to everything. Also for stats, on e.g. the fire walkers, should I prioritize higher str, all resist or vita on them? Searches so far seem to be that I can get 200+ str and 100+ vit but no all resist, or 150+ str, 50+ all resist and 50+ vit (guessing this is the best choice?) I'd get the 200+str and 100+ vit ones, definitely. People overrate all resistance; it's important, but it's not as important as people make out. You'd be missing out on a lot of stats to get the all resist, and you can make it up elsewhere. Use an effective HP calculator, if in doubt ( http://tinyurl.com/bvv495m ). Here is a link to my barb. I'd consider her gear to be pretty excellent; I can decimate all of act 3 rarely/never dying, and my AR is lower than many would consider the minimum. EDIT: duh, forgot link: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Hairy-1750/hero/2281818 EHP and EHP calculators are not everything, LoH get's better with higher all res and you can't exclusively calculate which item gives you better EHP anyway if you are still upgrading other items as well. Choosing between boots with 200str 100vit or 150str 50vit 50 all res the latter is probably better for a build with warcry and life on hit. Your barb would almost surely be better if it geared some more all res instead of vitality as well.
It can also be argued that all the time you are on 100% health, your LOH is doing nothing for you! Without trying to get into too much of a debate, there is two things that are important for surviving:
- A) Out-healing the rate of incoming damage. You need to balance your self-healing against damage mitigation, so that you can reliably out-heal the overall DPS you are subjected to.
- B) A Health buffer. Huge healing and damage mitigation is no good if you only have a tiny health pool, because sometimes you'll just get burst down. A larger health pool allows you to survive bursts, and then be healed back up due to (A)
I personally feel completely comfortable with A), so I see no reason to get more AR any time soon. If I want to improve my healing/damage taken ratio, I'd sooner go and get some more attack speed! 
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I'm a WW barb... so alright I found a pair of fire walkers today. 50 str/75vit/153dex and AR. Slapped em on to try it out.
I find the molten effect to be negligible. It's a flat, non-scaling 3,7k dps increase that gets reduced up to 1,6k by resisting mobs, it can't hit the same target multiple times and the trail is laughably short. Meh. Imo it seems to be an added "nice" thing but it's largely useless unless you get lucky/you're extremely rich and get a pair with better rolls. Have any of you guys tried it out? What are your impressions?
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I picked up a pair of Lacuni Prowlers today, and they are great. Despite losing 70 AR and 4.5 crit chance, the 9% IAS and 12% move speed are totally worth it. With the IAS, life on hit ticks much more quickly resulting in greater health gain, and getting to 24% base move speed makes farming runs go much quicker. I was even able to do an act III run in a bit over an hour using the double tornado with frenzy vanguard (24% + 40% + 20% + 15% movespeed).
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So finally bought my first round of gear, and would appreciate pointers as to what I should focus on onwards:
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Solitude-2305/hero/2299981
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On August 28 2012 07:22 Nudelfisk wrote:
I'm a WW barb... so alright I found a pair of fire walkers today. 50 str/75vit/153dex and AR. Slapped em on to try it out.
I find the molten effect to be negligible. It's a flat, non-scaling 3,7k dps increase that gets reduced up to 1,6k by resisting mobs, it can't hit the same target multiple times and the trail is laughably short. Meh. Imo it seems to be an added "nice" thing but it's largely useless unless you get lucky/you're extremely rich and get a pair with better rolls. Have any of you guys tried it out? What are your impressions?
I got the fire walkers, and I would far from call it negligible, sure it doesn't solo kill mobs, but I find it to deal quite a bit of damage to them, it actually quite easily kills mobs in act 1 inferno even.
But in act 3 inferno where I currently have gotten with my barb (just done ghom) they still deal good damage considering it is 1 effect on boots.
I would easily drop 150 str for that effect on boots, even 200.
We were 2 in the party and I still saw the boots alone take HP off normal mobs, so it seems great to me.
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so i havent seen it debated a whole lot but:
frenzy + vanguard vs bash + instigate
(for those who dont wanna use overpower and bind movement to another key)
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so i was considering doing a pure range build and was just thinking about some things mb you guys have answers to
with skull grasp stone of jordan and maras kaleidascope all being good items and being able to roll -weapon throw fury along with belts its quite possible to go to 0 fury required does blizzard have a cap or anything to prevent this?
also if you can get to 0 youre going to be using no escape anyway for the bonus damage so would beserker fury work for extra weapon throw damage?
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On August 28 2012 12:45 NTTemplar wrote:So finally bought my first round of gear, and would appreciate pointers as to what I should focus on onwards: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Solitude-2305/hero/2299981edit: Show nested quote +On August 28 2012 07:22 Nudelfisk wrote:
I'm a WW barb... so alright I found a pair of fire walkers today. 50 str/75vit/153dex and AR. Slapped em on to try it out.
I find the molten effect to be negligible. It's a flat, non-scaling 3,7k dps increase that gets reduced up to 1,6k by resisting mobs, it can't hit the same target multiple times and the trail is laughably short. Meh. Imo it seems to be an added "nice" thing but it's largely useless unless you get lucky/you're extremely rich and get a pair with better rolls. Have any of you guys tried it out? What are your impressions? I got the fire walkers, and I would far from call it negligible, sure it doesn't solo kill mobs, but I find it to deal quite a bit of damage to them, it actually quite easily kills mobs in act 1 inferno even. But in act 3 inferno where I currently have gotten with my barb (just done ghom) they still deal good damage considering it is 1 effect on boots. I would easily drop 150 str for that effect on boots, even 200. We were 2 in the party and I still saw the boots alone take HP off normal mobs, so it seems great to me.
Yeah I'm farming act 3 too, just don't find them too good - lost 770 dps according to a calculator, which translates to 2310 dps with sprint right? and since sprint hits more mobs I just didn't feel it was worth dropping strength for it. Should be said that your gear vastly outshines mine in terms of DPS, not only your boots. I'd love those fire walkers lol.
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im using Bash + Reverbation.
Bash+instigate gives a lot of fury yes, but it knocks back monsters. Bash + Reverb removes the knockback chance and because of it hitting 3 times, you have a high chance of getting a lot of fury from crits(the reverb counts as 3 separate hits). Its a happy medium for single target/fury generation.
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On August 28 2012 14:18 WaZ wrote:
so i was considering doing a pure range build and was just thinking about some things mb you guys have answers to
with skull grasp stone of jordan and maras kaleidascope all being good items and being able to roll -weapon throw fury along with belts its quite possible to go to 0 fury required does blizzard have a cap or anything to prevent this?
also if you can get to 0 youre going to be using no escape anyway for the bonus damage so would beserker fury work for extra weapon throw damage?
I don't see why it shouldn't.
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You should focus towards using your enchantress and giving her some gear!
She gives you 15% armour bonus and 3% attack speed due to her abilities, and if you equip her with MF stuff you get 20% of it yourself.
Apart from that, you've got yourself some pretty spectacular gear. My main concern is your health; 37.8k health looks low to me. With a bit more health everything is going to be a lot more comfortable. As far as slots to improve....
Your necklace. The same neck, but with str and vit, would be much better.
I'm not at all convinced by the shoulders; I've seen much better rare ones (more strength/vitality AND 10% life).
Your gloves have superb 'special' stats, but lack as much str / vitality as would be preferred for a truly top tier item.
Your helm is great, but I absolutely adore the proc on mine (Andariel's Visage). Worth a try, if you have spare cash.
Not much to suggest, really. If you want to splash out, an offhand with higher DPS will help. Bear in mind that it's only going to contribute ~10-20% of your overall damage when considering upgrades.
With all that out of the way.... how is the barb to play? You having fun with him?
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On August 28 2012 14:18 WaZ wrote:
so i was considering doing a pure range build and was just thinking about some things mb you guys have answers to
with skull grasp stone of jordan and maras kaleidascope all being good items and being able to roll -weapon throw fury along with belts its quite possible to go to 0 fury required does blizzard have a cap or anything to prevent this?
also if you can get to 0 youre going to be using no escape anyway for the bonus damage so would beserker fury work for extra weapon throw damage?
wow... i need to get that shit lol fury generation was a big problem for me with ranged barb
saw a similar 0 cd zombie dog + explosion WD build it was sick
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EPT
