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On August 27 2012 08:05 Hairy wrote:Check two posts above you :| I'm happy to help, but you have to at least put a teensy bit of effort in. For 1 billion gold you can do whatever the hell you want. That works out as ~77 million gold per item slot, which means you can buy the best in slot items - in every slot. You're going to have to be pretty fricking awesome at farming to regain that kind of money though  EDIT: just did a google for "whirlwind barbarian build", and the very first entry is the thread with stockpiles of information about it. Come on guys, try a bit harder.
So far the first two entries from google are D2 builds..........
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On August 27 2012 08:05 Hairy wrote:Check two posts above you :| I'm happy to help, but you have to at least put a teensy bit of effort in. For 1 billion gold you can do whatever the hell you want. That works out as ~77 million gold per item slot, which means you can buy the best in slot items - in every slot. You're going to have to be pretty fricking awesome at farming to regain that kind of money though EDIT: just did a google for "whirlwind barbarian build", and the very first entry is the thread with stockpiles of information about it. Come on guys, try a bit harder.
The link is for a guide that is old, on the first page: Waiting for 1.0.3 to start making a real guide
Hence when he wrote the start of the first post it wasn't 1.0.3 even, latest post is 20/7 which is before 1.0.4
Also for items, the thing is I don't know what best in slot is for a WW barb, is there a set I should get, what stats should what slots have etc?
edit: my effort was as far as searching diablo 3 whirlwind barbarian, and reading the last page, and reading OP.
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so doing some research on the WW builds which i have tried to avoid, and seeing the overpower nerf from the build posted on bnet is it safe to assume we can use the new and improved bash as a basic fury generator? A problem i notice some people having is with goblins but if we have decent dps and a basic attack we can probably chase the bastards down and kill them. Also some of the new move speed legendaries look like they will be really useful
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On August 27 2012 10:19 Stratos.FEAR wrote:
so doing some research on the WW builds which i have tried to avoid, and seeing the overpower nerf from the build posted on bnet is it safe to assume we can use the new and improved bash as a basic fury generator? A problem i notice some people having is with goblins but if we have decent dps and a basic attack we can probably chase the bastards down and kill them. Also some of the new move speed legendaries look like they will be really useful
Basically, the core build leaves 1 slot for whatever you fancy. The overwhelming majority of people seem to use Bash. I still believe Bash is actually a terrible waste of the slot; the better you are playing and the better you are at managing your fury, the less you will get out of this skill. You can't use bash as part of your normal attack routine; you are either sprinting&whirlwinding OR bashing. Enemies that try to kite you, and goblins, are taken care of by swapping to a cold weapon in your mainhand for those encounters.
People use bash because it is easier, not because it is better. Bash allows you to play as sloppy as you like, because if you ever grind yourself down to 0 fury (should never happen with practice) it's not an inconvenience to bash something a few times to get your fury back. If you use an alternative, you also generally have to use a new button to move around (eg I use spacebar to move), which requires a little practice. It's easy to be effective with Bash, but other options give you greater room for improvement.
Here's a few suggestions I think complement the build better:
- Overpower: is a skill you can keep up virtually all the time during combat, due to how frequently you crit! It can be cast while whirlwinding for non-negligible damage. As you have no fury generator whatsoever, you will have to be more careful with your fury - suggested for learning how to play the build well
- Crushing advance rune: means you take 35% less damage. I emphasise that this buff can be up virtually permanently. Isn't as ridiculously amazing as it was, following the nerf that meant you no longer gain LOH healing from reflected damage, but still strong
- Killing spree: 10% increased crit chance. Again, I emphasise that this buff can be up virtually permanently
- Revel: 8% life heal for every enemy hit.
- Leap: good for maneuverability and fun! If sprint is active, you will leave a line of tornadoes behind you after a leap; great for covering a pack instantly in tornadoes
- Iron Impact: allows you to be ~invincible for 4 seconds out of every 10.
- Call of Areat: pulls all enemies near the landing site to you; nice way to start a fight and have enemies bunched up
- Weapon Throw: Not only a fury generator with the passive and a -fury belt, but can be used against those pesky ranged enemies. Good for pretending to be a demon hunter
- Threatening shout, Demoralise: Great for party play. Taunt all nearby enemies to attack you
- Earthquake: just for lols
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You are also correct in saying that movespeed looks useful - movespeed is great for two reasons:
A) The quicker you move, the easier it is to create tornadoes with Sprint.
B) The quicker you move, the easier it is to be able to run circles around enemies. Combine movespeed & a cold weapon for the ability to run circles around enemies that would try to kite you.
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I realised that I hadn't really put a generic guide in this thread for a while; the guide I thought I had written was in various PMs, so apoligies to those I was a little short with (I was tired + grumpy). When someone is creating a new WW Sprint barb, I recommend aiming for the following minimum stats:
45k health
1400 LOH
45% crit chance
650 All Resist
Movement speed boots (it makes it easier to generate sprint's tornadoes)
Fast weapons (ideally a dagger offhand, and an axe mainhand)
Then as much attack speed / crit / DPS as you can get your hands on!
Here's a best kept secret: if you are on a real budget, it's actually completely viable to use a shield! This reduces all the 'defensive' gear requirements substantially, and makes it easier to reach the crit chance required to function.
These stats are a guideline, not a rule, but gear of this quality will allow you to survive comfortably, beat the game, and get practice at the build. Then you can choose for yourself what you want to adjust. A few things to note:
- Offhand weapon DPS really doesn't matter much in this build. Ignore it. Just get the best stats possible and worry about the DPS when you are super rich.
- The mainhand weapon should be the highest DPS you can afford. It is used for 90% of your attacks!
- Attack speed is very important (this is why we want fast weapons). It doesn't just give more damage - it also gives us more fury and more healing.
- 45% crit is the minimum to aim for, not the goal. More crit is good!
There is also a wealth of information you can find here, covering many aspects of the build and how it works, including video guides: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4941137526?page=1#1 The post may look old, but virtually all information is still up to date.
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On August 27 2012 17:24 Hairy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 10:19 Stratos.FEAR wrote:
so doing some research on the WW builds which i have tried to avoid, and seeing the overpower nerf from the build posted on bnet is it safe to assume we can use the new and improved bash as a basic fury generator? A problem i notice some people having is with goblins but if we have decent dps and a basic attack we can probably chase the bastards down and kill them. Also some of the new move speed legendaries look like they will be really useful Basically, the core build leaves 1 slot for whatever you fancy. The overwhelming majority of people seem to use Bash. I still believe Bash is actually a terrible waste of the slot; the better you are playing and the better you are at managing your fury, the less you will get out of this skill. You can't use bash as part of your normal attack routine; you are either sprinting&whirlwinding OR bashing. Enemies that try to kite you, and goblins, are taken care of by swapping to a cold weapon in your mainhand for those encounters. People use bash because it is easier, not because it is better. Bash allows you to play as sloppy as you like, because if you ever grind yourself down to 0 fury (should never happen with practice) it's not an inconvenience to bash something a few times to get your fury back. If you use an alternative, you also generally have to use a new button to move around (eg I use spacebar to move), which requires a little practice. It's easy to be effective with Bash, but other options give you greater room for improvement. Here's a few suggestions I think complement the build better: - Overpower: is a skill you can keep up virtually all the time during combat, due to how frequently you crit! It can be cast while whirlwinding for non-negligible damage. As you have no fury generator whatsoever, you will have to be more careful with your fury - suggested for learning how to play the build well
- Crushing advance rune: means you take 35% less damage. I emphasise that this buff can be up virtually permanently. Isn't as ridiculously amazing as it was, following the nerf that meant you no longer gain LOH healing from reflected damage, but still strong
- Killing spree: 10% increased crit chance. Again, I emphasise that this buff can be up virtually permanently
- Revel: 8% life heal for every enemy hit.
- Leap: good for maneuverability and fun! If sprint is active, you will leave a line of tornadoes behind you after a leap; great for covering a pack instantly in tornadoes
- Iron Impact: allows you to be ~invincible for 4 seconds out of every 10.
- Call of Areat: pulls all enemies near the landing site to you; nice way to start a fight and have enemies bunched up
- Weapon Throw: Not only a fury generator with the passive and a -fury belt, but can be used against those pesky ranged enemies. Good for pretending to be a demon hunter
- Threatening shout, Demoralise: Great for party play. Taunt all nearby enemies to attack you
- Earthquake: just for lols
while you are correct with everything you say about bash not being a great skill and stuff, the convenience it offers is the deciding argument in its favor for me. d3 is a hack & slash game, its gameplay should above all be fun and easy and relaxing. if i want to use all my skill and concentration and not even think about being careless and sloppy, then i play sc2, not d3. 
for this reason, i never liked builds without a fury generator. and lets be honest: the gear threshold after which the difference between overpower (or leap) and bash becomes insignificant for your killing speed isnt that high either.
but this is certainly a matter of personal taste, so this post isnt intended as criticism.
edit: in terms of overall speed of runs, bash offers one advantage btw: if you ever die, you can
a) bash barrels and doors for fury, so that you can use sprint on your way back to the mob
b) get fury for wotb much quicker. if you die, its probably to some sort of tough mob, so that it might be very inconvenient and dangerous to have to stand next to them in order to get your initial fury. it might also be dangerous to have to use some sprint and ww before you have enough fury for wotb.
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On August 27 2012 17:27 Hairy wrote:
You are also correct in saying that movespeed looks useful - movespeed is great for two reasons:
A) The quicker you move, the easier it is to create tornadoes with Sprint.
B) The quicker you move, the easier it is to be able to run circles around enemies. Combine movespeed & a cold weapon for the ability to run circles around enemies that would try to kite you.
When i saw the new ice climber boots with socket my eyes lit up like a kid, then I realised they didn''t have any runspeed and thought about what i would be missing without the runspeed which is what you talked about. .... sigh
Do you guys think it''s worth getting runspeed on another set of legendary gear to get more sprints? like it will be hard and really expensive but is more than 12% runspeed worth it?
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Some Legendary thoughts/comments:
- Andariel's Visage, http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/andariels-visage
Superb. Mine has a poison nova chance of 39%, and it procs extremely regularly, giving a noticeable damage increase
- Fire Walkers, http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/fire-walkers
Also great. They do about 4k DPS to enemies within the fire trail, and given that we love being in the middle of huge groups of enemies, this gets a lot of use. Plus, they automatically destroy all debris and doors you walk into.
- Echoing Fury, http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/echoing-fury
AVOID. I am 99% sure 'fear' effects cause your target to run away, which means they will leave your tornado kill zone. This means you'll be chasing after every monster like it was a goblin - extremely bad for DPS. On this subject, be sure to avoid similar skills and stats, such as +knockback%.
- Sky Splitter, http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/sky-splitter
Mediocre. The proc itself is good (~20k damage), but its proc chance works in tandem with the proc coefficients on abilities. Given that our coefficients are 20% and 13% for sprint and whirlwind respectively, this proc just doesn't happen often enough to be worth the money.
- Tyrael's Might, http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/tyraels-might
Superb. Most enemies in act 3, and ~all in act 4, are demons. The movement speed also complements this build perfectly.
- Thunder God's Vigor, http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/thunder-gods-vigor
That 'shock pulse' proc sounds kickass - someone go test it please :D
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On August 27 2012 17:52 crisiscore wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 17:27 Hairy wrote:
You are also correct in saying that movespeed looks useful - movespeed is great for two reasons:
A) The quicker you move, the easier it is to create tornadoes with Sprint.
B) The quicker you move, the easier it is to be able to run circles around enemies. Combine movespeed & a cold weapon for the ability to run circles around enemies that would try to kite you. When i saw the new ice climber boots with socket my eyes lit up like a kid, then I realised they didn''t have any runspeed and thought about what i would be missing without the runspeed which is what you talked about. .... sigh Do you guys think it''s worth getting runspeed on another set of legendary gear to get more sprints? like it will be hard and really expensive but is more than 12% runspeed worth it?
It's something I'm strongly considering myself. We can debate the utility, but at the end of the day I just can't see any end-game WW/Sprint barb being 'complete' without 24%/25% runspeed.
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On August 27 2012 17:40 Black Gun wrote:while you are correct with everything you say about bash not being a great skill and stuff, the convenience it offers is the deciding argument in its favor for me. d3 is a hack & slash game, its gameplay should above all be fun and easy and relaxing. if i want to use all my skill and concentration and not even think about being careless and sloppy, then i play sc2, not d3.
Try leap, then. It awards fury, and the 10 second cooldown means it's there basically any time you need it, and it actually has utility that complements the build more.
On August 27 2012 17:40 Black Gun wrote:
edit: in terms of overall speed of runs, bash offers one advantage btw: if you ever die, you can
a) bash barrels and doors for fury, so that you can use sprint on your way back to the mob
b) get fury for wotb much quicker. if you die, its probably to some sort of tough mob, so that it might be very inconvenient and dangerous to have to stand next to them in order to get your initial fury. it might also be dangerous to have to use some sprint and ww before you have enough fury for wotb.
I prefer to pick skills that mean I don't die, rather than make it less of a hassle if I do
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Between Overpower and Bash, I prefer Bash for pretty much the same reasons as Black Gun. I don't wanna be on edge the entire time I'm playing and have to stress out about managing my Fury perfectly at all times. I did run Overpower for a couple weeks, and it was definitely good (better pre-nerf, obviously), but it just caused too many frustrating moments where I wanted to snap my keyboard in half.
Without the coefficient, I can't see myself ever going back to Overpower. The 35% damage reflect isn't enough to sell me on it anymore. I'll probably toy around with some of your other suggestions though, and perhaps see what other options I might have that you didn't mention.
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On August 27 2012 18:03 Hairy wrote:Some Legendary thoughts/comments: - Andariel's Visage, http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/andariels-visage
Superb. Mine has a poison nova chance of 39%, and it procs extremely regularly, giving a noticeable damage increase
- Fire Walkers, http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/fire-walkers
Also great. They do about 4k DPS to enemies within the fire trail, and given that we love being in the middle of huge groups of enemies, this gets a lot of use. Plus, they automatically destroy all debris and doors you walk into.
- Echoing Fury, http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/echoing-fury
AVOID. I am 99% sure 'fear' effects cause your target to run away, which means they will leave your tornado kill zone. This means you'll be chasing after every monster like it was a goblin - extremely bad for DPS. On this subject, be sure to avoid similar skills and stats, such as +knockback%.
- Sky Splitter, http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/sky-splitter
Mediocre. The proc itself is good (~20k damage), but its proc chance works in tandem with the proc coefficients on abilities. Given that our coefficients are 20% and 13% for sprint and whirlwind respectively, this proc just doesn't happen often enough to be worth the money.
- Tyrael's Might, http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/tyraels-might
Superb. Most enemies in act 3, and ~all in act 4, are demons. The movement speed also complements this build perfectly.
- Thunder God's Vigor, http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/thunder-gods-vigor
That 'shock pulse' proc sounds kickass - someone go test it please :D
i can never afford these kind of upgrades which are silly expensive for what you get but still.
stone of jordan would be insane as well with improved crit chance on whirlwind. The bonus damage against elites is superb and the increase in maximum fury is actually useful as well for a WW/sprint build so it becomes easier to hop from one fight to the next.
It's a bit of a hassle looking for one though as I think you can't search for it and only 1 in 58 of them has it.
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OK, is this right, core build is sprint, WW, battle rage, WoTB, warcry? then last slot is personal choice.
Also so far I am considering the mempto helmet, tyrael's might chest, fire walker boots; should I go for them or are there better choices?
Also noticed Stone of jordan from last poster, any thoughts on that one?
Also for stats, on e.g. the fire walkers, should I prioritize higher str, all resist or vita on them? Searches so far seem to be that I can get 200+ str and 100+ vit but no all resist, or 150+ str, 50+ all resist and 50+ vit (guessing this is the best choice?)
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On August 28 2012 00:49 NTTemplar wrote:
OK, is this right, core build is sprint, WW, battle rage, WoTB, warcry? then last slot is personal choice.
Also so far I am considering the mempto helmet, tyrael's might chest, fire walker boots; should I go for them or are there better choices?
Also noticed Stone of jordan from last poster, any thoughts on that one?
Also for stats, on e.g. the fire walkers, should I prioritize higher str, all resist or vita on them? Searches so far seem to be that I can get 200+ str and 100+ vit but no all resist, or 150+ str, 50+ all resist and 50+ vit (guessing this is the best choice?)
It's always impossible to give a conclusive answer to questions like these as the quality of each stat depends on what else you have since the bonusses are generally multiplicative, ie you want to balance it out.
That said all resistance is pivotal to any barb though and is recommended to get on most pieces if possible just because it's such a good stat with warcry. Especially for the items that can't roll crit chance/ crit damage you want that all resist so you can potentially skip it on others. Taking this into consideration i'd probably take the all res version, you lose some str/vit but it's probably worth it. Life on hit get's more effective with higher resistances while it doesn't improve with vitality.
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I'm trying my best to update my char to the more modern barb (i used to be a pure tank based one but my dps was just so low that I couldn't kill stuff fast enough and relied on insanity/wotb + earthquake to burst down elites, and if they didn't die in that time frame, i basically was in for a rough time...)
I'm loving my current build, and i sac'd a lot of vit to gain more str, and with the whirlwind/crit/sprint spec, i've been able to kill stuff much more quickly, i'm mostly working on updating pieces to maintain my str level and gain some vit again so i'm back up around 35k when i can. I was running around 25k at one point and that was simply too dangerous. My current budget though isn't great, i probably have 10 mill total, but can probably farm more if I give myself a goal, I'm just a bit lost about what to do, and waht pieces to update that would have a good enough impact.
I know my offhand should be more stat-stick oriented to have more crit damage/etc, but no matter how i plug things into a stat calculator, because of the high dps of the offhand I have now, it beats out any type of statstick i can find that's affordable (i have a dagger that has a socket, totaling over 125 crit damage, and 150 or so str on it, but equipping it drops my dps by 9000!)
I'd also like to squeeze in some more life on hit if possible since mine has dipped to 897 or so from 1400....
I just bought the boots/pants as vit upgrades (maintained str levels). I imagine my bulkathos and kymbos deserves the most upgrading now but I dunno what stats to look for and what prices things should be at?
help? Thanks a ton guys
edit: whoops forgot my link:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Kazeyonoma-1662/hero/14226
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Well, if you can afford all those legendaries you'll probably be well enough geared to go with bash as your 6th skill. Overpower and leap are more useful when your gear is poorer and you need that extra survivability.
As for which legendaries to get, Tyrael's Might is probably the most important one as the 12% movespeed will make farming super fast. I was looking at the top paragon leveller list last night and most top barbs had this item.
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On August 28 2012 01:41 Kazeyonoma wrote:I'm trying my best to update my char to the more modern barb (i used to be a pure tank based one but my dps was just so low that I couldn't kill stuff fast enough and relied on insanity/wotb + earthquake to burst down elites, and if they didn't die in that time frame, i basically was in for a rough time...) I'm loving my current build, and i sac'd a lot of vit to gain more str, and with the whirlwind/crit/sprint spec, i've been able to kill stuff much more quickly, i'm mostly working on updating pieces to maintain my str level and gain some vit again so i'm back up around 35k when i can. I was running around 25k at one point and that was simply too dangerous. My current budget though isn't great, i probably have 10 mill total, but can probably farm more if I give myself a goal, I'm just a bit lost about what to do, and waht pieces to update that would have a good enough impact. I know my offhand should be more stat-stick oriented to have more crit damage/etc, but no matter how i plug things into a stat calculator, because of the high dps of the offhand I have now, it beats out any type of statstick i can find that's affordable (i have a dagger that has a socket, totaling over 125 crit damage, and 150 or so str on it, but equipping it drops my dps by 9000!) I'd also like to squeeze in some more life on hit if possible since mine has dipped to 897 or so from 1400.... I just bought the boots/pants as vit upgrades (maintained str levels). I imagine my bulkathos and kymbos deserves the most upgrading now but I dunno what stats to look for and what prices things should be at? help? Thanks a ton guys edit: whoops forgot my link: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Kazeyonoma-1662/hero/14226
Damage is incredibly missleading to look at when it comes to off hand for a WW barb.
Your damage SHOULD drop, since the damage calculates your main and off hand, but WW and sprint use only main hand.
The damage calculator isn't smart enough to understand that your specific builds damage comes 90% from main hand.
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Ahh, well that makes a lot of sense, good thing I didn't spend anything on the offhand (it dropped for me). So i should actually be using my dagger than that has 125 crit damage modifier, almost equivalent strength, attacks faster (allows for more fury generation), AND has a whopping 541 loh on it to increase my survivability, but my overall damage should be almost exactly comparable to now? How misleading but good to know I didn't sell my dagger.
Any other suggestions though as to what I should be replacing and with what?
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On August 28 2012 02:37 Kazeyonoma wrote:
Ahh, well that makes a lot of sense, good thing I didn't spend anything on the offhand (it dropped for me). So i should actually be using my dagger than that has 125 crit damage modifier, almost equivalent strength, attacks faster (allows for more fury generation), AND has a whopping 541 loh on it to increase my survivability, but my overall damage should be almost exactly comparable to now? How misleading but good to know I didn't sell my dagger.
Any other suggestions though as to what I should be replacing and with what?
Your actual damage should be much higher, while your displayed damage should be lower.
Faster attack speed on the off hand increases damage of sprint as far as I understood it.
So you will now have more crit damage, and better survivability with the LoH.
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EPT
