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On August 06 2012 12:16 Sylvr wrote:Ok, so it's not as bad as before, but I still have some things I need to fix. The problem is, I don't know what's the most important. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/JJQu1.png) From what I can tell, my STR, Resistances, and LOH are too low. What should I worry about first? Here's my gear if that helps. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/I09wjl.png) helps. I think I may have made some mistakes by not capitalizing on pieces where certain stats are cheaper, but I don't know them all that well yet. Any advice will be much appreciated.
maybe try to replace the gem in your offhand by an amethyst one for 300-400 LoH. that should probably help you a lot.
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Here is my current gear, for anyone interested. I have my two shouts on, and enchantress.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/6RDR2.jpg)
Remarkably similar to yours, Sylvr, with the main distinction being attack speed. Attack speed is important for the build! I noted you were using maces; your attack speed I can see is 1.38. My average attack speed is 1.91. This means that I attack 38% more rapidly than you! This means I get 38% more benefit from my LOH and 38% more fury return from my sprints.
Whirlwind will also eat rage faster, but whirlwind is only a part of my fury spending.
On August 06 2012 16:00 Sylvr wrote:
Consistency as in, you aren't as likely to stall out. I ran the Overpower build for a while, and it was really powerful, but sometimes you just get unlucky with crits and don't generate enough Fury to sustain, or you catch some CC while WotB is on cooldown, or you get walled and simply can't build Fury because you can't get them in a Tornado.
With Bash or Frenzy, you just smack them a few times and off you go.
As I just mentioned, I get 38% more fury return than you do due to attack speed. While this is obviously a factor, you also want to only use whirlwind with care and make sure you aren't whirlwinding unless your tornadoes have good contact and you are close to 100 fury. I don't have any fury problems at all.
If all you have is Overpower, and it doesn't proc Into the Fray (or you can't afford to take the hits to get Fury from Crushing Advance), then sometimes you just have to run away and wait for your cooldowns and pray that you don't die before you can get off the ground again. Also, it isn't always as easy to just "take a few hits" to get Fury from Crushing Advance. In order to get Fury from getting hit, the reflect damage has to crit, and then that crit has to proc Into the Fray (Does anyone even know it's proc rate?), and if you're at <5 Fury, then that has to happen twice within 3 seconds. How hard that is depends on how many, and what, you are fighting. The more mobs there are, the better your chance of getting the Fury you need, but also the better chance of you taking too much damage. I hit enemies 1-2 times, THEN do both shouts and THEN overpower. Often I have the fury to begin. If not, then you simply need to take a little damage. Passively, barbarians generate fury simply from taking damage (irrespective of Overpower buff). I tend to walk gently away from enemies, so that I take damage, but don't get surrounded. With practice it's really not hard to get going, and if you're exiting battles properly (with a fresh battle shout and 100 fury) you can usually just sprint to the next group and not have these issues at all.
Furthermore, you can get 20 fury in a split second if you just stand in some plague etc if you're using the Superstition passive.
This isn't just idle speculation- I've done the build, and all of these situations occurred occasionally, sometimes several times a run. There are a few precautions you can take to partially shore up these weaknesses, but they all take something away from the efficiency of the build (such as using a Mighty Weapon so that you can get a few extra Fury from auto-attacks, or Inspiring Presence so that you can get a second Warcry in the duration of Battle Cry, or Unforgiving so that you just don't lose Fury, and you build it up between packs). When you factor in the DPS loss of using one of these safety nets, you might as well just scrap Overpower altogether and use Bash/Frenzy. You'll save yourself a lot of frustration in the long run.
This simply doesn't align with my experiences. I don't run out of fury; I sprint from pack to pack, and I rarely/never have problems where I "run out of steam". Eg, a few times I've murdered all elites in the fields of slaughter in a single (3+ minute long) WOTB.
Overpower is an ability that can be used while whirlwinding for good damage, it reduces the damage you take by 30% (!!), and you can have it up in combat most of the time. Furthermore, every time you take damage it triggers your LOH, which means it turns many damaging effects (lightning, molten, plague etc) into HEALS. It's a monstrously good ability. IMO using bash instead of overpower would most definitely be taking away from the efficiency of the build :/
Besides that, It's a major pain in the ass trying to kill Goblins or other mobs that run away since you aren't always guaranteed a corner to run them in to. This I concede. I kill goblins a lot of the time now, and it's getting easier as my DPS increases, but it's never a sure thing.
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So, dumb question, how do you normal attack with whirlwind in left click? I spent the little rage I have whirling for .5 seconds.
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I've been doing the whirlwind build for a while now. Imo by far the fastest class and the most fun =)
Did the bash thing first, read about overpower build here and tried it out, loved it. Had the same problems as some people here with the low fury gain and troubles against low amounts of enemies, but switched to superstition and it's awesome.
Concerning gear, I'm at approx. the same as you guys, except my crit dmg is a lot lower (290). I figured I'd rather pump str and crit until my survivability (due to armor) is good enough and I can keep spinning with no problems.
I'd just like to add that attack speed is probably the most important stat after crit % concerning DPS. Whirlwind spending more fury is necessarily not a bad thing as you only get more time of your WotB if you're not full on rage, plus more attacks = more chances to proc battle rage fury gain. I didn't realize this, so didn't go for any attack speed and my WotB runs out between packs if I'm unlucky - I get a lot of ranged mobs which don't want to follow me around =(. Axes are the way to go, 100%.
On August 06 2012 22:05 Burrfoot wrote:
So, dumb question, how do you normal attack with whirlwind in left click? I spent the little rage I have whirling for .5 seconds.
You don't, generally. You attack once (no rage means normal attack), then shout twice and then start running with sprint. Your main dmg comes off off sprint, not whirlwind. You use whirlwind to pass through mobs in order to spawn better tornadoes/skip mobs/get out of tough spots
EDIT - also, enchantress>scoundrel b/c of the armor and IAS
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On August 06 2012 19:20 pedduck wrote:
Need another advice, for a sword and board barb, if I am looking for more dps, would the belt with 10% frenzy damage worth the price? 10% damage in one affix seems really good
10% frenzy damage is nice, but you also do good considerable damage through other damage sources (eg revenge). Be wary of losing strength to gain that affix, because you may be losing out overall. The only way to tell is to do the maths.
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On August 06 2012 19:20 pedduck wrote:
Need another advice, for a sword and board barb, if I am looking for more dps, would the belt with 10% frenzy damage worth the price? 10% damage in one affix seems really good
I imagine that 10% frenzy damage is a very nice affix, but I haven't tried it yet to really know. There aren't many belts out there which have it as well as good STR, VIT, RES and/or %Life though, and the ones that do aren't cheap. If you happen to have one, or find one for a good price, go for it. I'm not sure if the affix affects Sidearm.
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Thank you both for the advice. I am kinda happy with my armor and resist right now which not a lot of act 3 elite can kill me. The problem is since I have no cri and cri damage, I rely on wotb to burst down elite. I would like to kill at least 2 elite in 1 transform, so I am looking for a way to increase my damage without having to spend 100m on cri gear.
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Hmm. Maybe I just hadn't had enough experience with the build to pull off the Overpower version at the time. Perhaps its time to give it another whirl (pun fully intended. Don't hate.).
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a version that seems to work very well in my experience is to use a mighty weapon, replace nerves of steel with superstition and skip battle rage. nados and ww hit extremely quickly, which creates fury, and every hit of a monster also creates fury through overpower and potentially also by superstition. i was using bash(instigation) as the ordinary attack and didnt have much problems with fury and could also keep up wotb quite easily.
another advantage: you dont have to focus your gear on cc only, you can aim for the optimal balance between cc, cdam, ias and str. another major advantage of overpower builds is that you can get by with much less LoH, so you can skip this stat on rings and amu, which allows for much better stuff on jewelery.
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On August 07 2012 17:57 Mithhaike wrote:http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Haike-1482/hero/105268Hey guys this is my barbarian running the tornado build. What do you guys think i should focus on now? right now i cant do Act3 as my DPS is still too low. Tips & Recommendations are welcomed! thanks 
you are massively lacking cd. get two weapons with a socket and use the 70% emeralds in them. should boost your dps quite a bit.
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Random tidbit: solo facetanked 2man ghom using frenzy, overpower, ignore pain, and leap after the standard ww/bash combo failed miserably to sustain when me and my monk buddy tried to kite around. So facetanking him the whole time prevents adds from spawning and overpower instantly healed me to full.
Now we'rein act 4 with my budget ww barb needing to demote my crit dmg weapon for a low dps 900 loh weapon and shield to stay alive lol.. 900 res all, 35k hp, 11k dps, 8k armor.
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On August 07 2012 21:01 Black Gun wrote:you are massively lacking cd. get two weapons with a socket and use the 70% emeralds in them. should boost your dps quite a bit.
decent LOH with crit is expensive 
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On August 07 2012 17:57 Mithhaike wrote:http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Haike-1482/hero/105268Hey guys this is my barbarian running the tornado build. What do you guys think i should focus on now? right now i cant do Act3 as my DPS is still too low. Tips & Recommendations are welcomed! thanks
Your DPS is exactly where mine is/was when I beat the game.
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On August 07 2012 22:08 Mithhaike wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2012 21:01 Black Gun wrote:On August 07 2012 17:57 Mithhaike wrote:http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Haike-1482/hero/105268Hey guys this is my barbarian running the tornado build. What do you guys think i should focus on now? right now i cant do Act3 as my DPS is still too low. Tips & Recommendations are welcomed! thanks you are massively lacking cd. get two weapons with a socket and use the 70% emeralds in them. should boost your dps quite a bit. decent LOH with crit is expensive
i know, but in your case, it will be worth it.
just get an offhand with 800-900 loh and a socket, no matter the stats or dps and get a mainhand with a socket. use an emerald in the mh and an amethyst in your oh. should boost your dps while roughly maintaining your LoH and should not be too expensive.
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On August 07 2012 21:20 Burrfoot wrote:
Random tidbit: solo facetanked 2man ghom using frenzy, overpower, ignore pain, and leap after the standard ww/bash combo failed miserably to sustain when me and my monk buddy tried to kite around. So facetanking him the whole time prevents adds from spawning and overpower instantly healed me to full.
Now we'rein act 4 with my budget ww barb needing to demote my crit dmg weapon for a low dps 900 loh weapon and shield to stay alive lol.. 900 res all, 35k hp, 11k dps, 8k armor.
The key was overpower, not the change of build. Drop bash in your WW build, go overpower!
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On August 07 2012 17:57 Mithhaike wrote:http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Haike-1482/hero/105268Hey guys this is my barbarian running the tornado build. What do you guys think i should focus on now? right now i cant do Act3 as my DPS is still too low. Tips & Recommendations are welcomed! thanks
You don't need much dps to run the tornado build. Once you have enough damage mitigation and life on hit, you become quite difficult to kill, particularly if you use overpower as well. Act 3 is doable with only 10-15k, even if you hit enrage timers you'll be able to outheal them so they don't matter.
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That's the stupidest thing I've heard. If you're going to get 12k armor and 1k resist, you might as well do a tank build so you can actually do DPS instead of running around like a headless chicken not ever being able to kill occulists, goats, quilbacks, or anything that involves running.
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On August 08 2012 01:18 Hairy wrote:
The key was overpower, not the change of build. Drop bash in your WW build, go overpower!
You are probably right, when I did it I dropped battle rage and kept thrive so that was a useless skill and didn't need ignore pain with leaping between overpowers. It was pretty cool seeing the sustain improvement of leap's armor in my hp pool for the duration though.
I can probably solo/duo act 4 with WW as Story mode is pretty trivial, it's just efficient farming that is hard to attain.
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So hoping I can get some great input from skyR / Tranq and awesome folks here. So been putting in 90 hour work weeks plus school so not a TON has changed.
Please give some feedback on good options to look for upgrades / and yes this is an alt so very new to me. I still have my list of previous detals I got from your post so do not think I ignored them at all. Just want to refresh my current build / gear with new Bnet tool character profile sheet, and see if that allows you to give me even more details.
Also I have not really put gear on the helper because I have next to no idea what she needs to wear to help me, honestly.
Bnet Profile
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EPT
