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On August 05 2012 17:33 Sylvr wrote:
Er, I was under the impression that Battle Fury with Into the Fray rune was mandatory for the build to work since that is what's supposed to generate your fury (Crits off of Tornados and WW proc it continuously). Otherwise, how do you keep spinning and sprinting?
The basic build, as I understand it, is:
Bash: Instigation (Builds your initial Fury quickly, and is a good re-start if you stall out mid-spin. You can use Frenzy if you really want to)
WW: Hurricane (The rate that you spawn Tornados off of Sprint is based on distance traveled, so you need to move at full speed while you spin)
Battle Fury: Into the Fray (Crits give you Fury; you'll be critting a lot if your gear is right)
Sprint: Run like the Wind (Tornados hit continuously proc'ing your LOH and critting for Into the Fray procs)
Warcry: Impunity (Mandatory for all Barbs. If you don't use this, then you have to use too much of your gear potential to make up for the missing resists)
WotB: Thrive on Chaos (CC Immunity is pretty important since you need to keep moving to generate crits and LOH procs, though if you have enough DPS, you can probably use a different Rune. Thrive is just to ensure that WotB lasts as long as it needs to)
Passives:
Ruthless
Weapons Master
Your Choice (most people I see use something defensive)
Holy shit. This makes WAAAYYYYY more sense than what I was doing. Thanks a lot.
On August 05 2012 17:27 skyR wrote:
Battle Rage is required for WW, it's how you generate fury... how did you make it so far as a WW barb without it? -.-
Um... I'm a little embarrassed to admit it, but I would Frenzy fools for a little while until I had some Fury, then I would run around for a while, then I would Frenzy some more... And I was using both Fury Generating passives. This is way better.
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Does offhand damage matter for WW build? I've got a weapon with 700+ LOH, a Socket, and a bit of STR, but it only has 600 DPS. I'm wondering whether I have to buy 2 new weapons, or if I can just dump all of my weapon budget into one superior weapon (I figure I'll spend more than half of it on just the weapons, since that's the most important piece by far).
Edit: Also, is going from like 980 DPS to 1000 worth 6M? I have 25M on me, and possibly another 15-20M on the AH if stuff sells for what I posted. How much of that SHOULD be my weapon budget? Half? More? Less? Gold per Damage is rising exponentially, and I'm wondering where on the bell curve I should be aiming with the Gold I have.
Edit2: If offhand damage REALLY doesn't matter, then I've got a 400 DPS weapon with 901 LOH, 57% CD, Socket, and 88 VIT. The crits will be monstrous if I'm able to use that one...
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On August 05 2012 18:45 Sylvr wrote:
Does offhand damage matter for WW build? I've got a weapon with 700+ LOH, a Socket, and a bit of STR, but it only has 600 DPS. I'm wondering whether I have to buy 2 new weapons, or if I can just dump all of my weapon budget into one superior weapon (I figure I'll spend more than half of it on just the weapons, since that's the most important piece by far).
Edit: Also, is going from like 980 DPS to 1000 worth 6M? I have 25M on me, and possibly another 15-20M on the AH if stuff sells for what I posted. How much of that SHOULD be my weapon budget? Half? More? Less? Gold per Damage is rising exponentially, and I'm wondering where on the bell curve I should be aiming with the Gold I have.
Edit2: If offhand damage REALLY doesn't matter, then I've got a 400 DPS weapon with 901 LOH, 57% CD, Socket, and 88 VIT. The crits will be monstrous if I'm able to use that one...
I don't play double Tornado myself, but it's something like Tornado damage scales off your main hand, but its attacks per second depends on the APS of the weapon you swung last. I'm not sure about WW.
Check out this link, and the link in that link: https://eu.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4940486030
Edit: well, reading into those links more. Looks like WW APS functions the same as Tornado. However it does alternate between MH and OH for damage. That said, if your weaker OH will boost the damage on your MH by more, it might be better in the end. Approx 75% of your damage will come from your MH anyway (all of Tornado and half of WW) so dropping OH damage, for a stronger MH is probably worth it. Anyway an experienced Double Tornado Barb can probably tell you better than I can since I play sword and board.
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On August 05 2012 18:45 Sylvr wrote:
Does offhand damage matter for WW build? I've got a weapon with 700+ LOH, a Socket, and a bit of STR, but it only has 600 DPS. I'm wondering whether I have to buy 2 new weapons, or if I can just dump all of my weapon budget into one superior weapon (I figure I'll spend more than half of it on just the weapons, since that's the most important piece by far).
Edit: Also, is going from like 980 DPS to 1000 worth 6M? I have 25M on me, and possibly another 15-20M on the AH if stuff sells for what I posted. How much of that SHOULD be my weapon budget? Half? More? Less? Gold per Damage is rising exponentially, and I'm wondering where on the bell curve I should be aiming with the Gold I have.
Edit2: If offhand damage REALLY doesn't matter, then I've got a 400 DPS weapon with 901 LOH, 57% CD, Socket, and 88 VIT. The crits will be monstrous if I'm able to use that one...
I'm in the same boat as Trang on this, since I'm a sword and board barb too, but I'm pretty sure that the off-hand slot is meant to be for a "stat stick" for WW barbs - meaning DPS around 400-500, but monstrous STR, VIT, LoH, possibily some native +Crit dmg and of course a socket for even more +Crit dmg. If I were you I'd try giving your 400 DPS weapon a try and see how it goes before you halve your weapon budget.
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Experienced double tornado barb here. Offhand is a stat-stick. Sprint is your primary attack; whirlwind is only used when you are at full fury. You can literally ignore the DPS on your offhand, because it really is irrelevant for a WW/barb (assuming you are using the proper overpower variant, and not the watered down bash style).
Each tornado generated from sprint does 60% of your mainhand weapon damage. You can create 4 tornadoes per sprint (i.e. 240% mainhand damage total). Whirlwind's strikes alternate between your mainhand and offhand, for 110% damage (with your offhand contributing half).
Total damage output is 240% from tornadoes, and 110% from whirlwind => 350%,
of which your offhand only contributes 55%.
55 / 350 = 15%.
This is why my weapons are:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/o3k3i.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/yvRnk.jpg)
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What did that offhand cost you?
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1m! Bargain price for a 221 DPS weapon :D
EDIT: also, bear in mind that half of the time, sprint's tornadoes are based upon your offhand's weapon speed (but your mainhand's damage). This means the faster your offhand is, the better.
<3 my little dagger of stabbyness
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I finally gave in to Double Tornado.
Well, more like I zerged through Inferno with my Demon Hunter just to say that I beat the game, then I just wanted to quit entirely (and did for a month).
So I finally came back just to try out the Double Tornado build (already had a Barb that tanked through A2 Inferno), and I smashed through Act 3 and 4, and had a blast, instead of the usual pain and suffering of D3.
If every class had a build like this, then this game might actually be worth playing again.
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Ugh... I rebuilt my WW Barb, and my damage is better, but my resists are down to the 500-600 range, and I'm only at 40k HP... Damnit. I don't think I'd survive A3.
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I guess I don't really understand the no-primary fury gen skill builds with overpower - how does one generate the initial rage to shout/sprint? I guess I haven't figured out how to normal attack.
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Shout, overpower, getting hit.
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On August 06 2012 07:17 Burrfoot wrote:
I guess I don't really understand the no-primary fury gen skill builds with overpower - how does one generate the initial rage to shout/sprint? I guess I haven't figured out how to normal attack.
Warcry gives 30 fury, Battle Rage and Sprint need 40 for both. So basically you just have to generate 10 Fury from damage to get started.
It's more annoying to get started (but easy once you get used to it), but Overpower w/ Crushing Advance is a godsend for the vast majority of elites.
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The Overpower version has better damage and survivability, but your consistency and transit speed go way down. If you're using Bash or Frenzy, then you can afford to Sprint everywhere, even when there are no mobs around, but with Overpower, you have to save every ounce of fury to ensure that you can start up again.
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Ok, so it's not as bad as before, but I still have some things I need to fix. The problem is, I don't know what's the most important.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/JJQu1.png)
From what I can tell, my STR, Resistances, and LOH are too low. What should I worry about first? Here's my gear if that
helps.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/I09wjl.png)
helps. I think I may have made some mistakes by not capitalizing on pieces where certain stats are cheaper, but I don't know them all that well yet. Any advice will be much appreciated.
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Your Armor/Resistances aren't actually that bad. I think 6k/600 with 40k Life was the minimum to comfortably beat Inferno.
The real issue is attack speed and LoH. It should be fairly easy to boost those though. Your Crit Chance and Crit Damage are overkill when you don't meet the minimum requirements for everything, so you should be able to get a 500-600 LoH Amulet (with stats), and a sword/dagger for your offhand. You'll lose some damage, but 20k is enough, and you're at double that.
Boots with movement speed will also help, since I think you need at least 9% to get 4 tornadoes from Sprint.
And the easiest switch-out is using the Enchantress. +Armor and +ASpd will be much more useful than extra Crit Chance (I think 30% is the bare minimum, and you're at 52.5%).
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On August 06 2012 12:43 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Your Armor/Resistances aren't actually that bad. I think 6k/600 with 40k Life was the minimum to comfortably beat Inferno.
The real issue is attack speed and LoH. It should be fairly easy to boost those though. Your Crit Chance and Crit Damage are overkill when you don't meet the minimum requirements for everything, so you should be able to get a 500-600 LoH Amulet (with stats), and a sword/dagger for your offhand. You'll lose some damage, but 20k is enough, and you're at double that.
Boots with movement speed will also help, since I think you need at least 9% to get 4 tornadoes from Sprint.
And the easiest switch-out is using the Enchantress. +Armor and +ASpd will be much more useful than extra Crit Chance (I think 30% is the bare minimum, and you're at 52.5%).
What are the minimum requirements for everything?
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On August 06 2012 14:25 Terranasaur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 12:43 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Your Armor/Resistances aren't actually that bad. I think 6k/600 with 40k Life was the minimum to comfortably beat Inferno.
The real issue is attack speed and LoH. It should be fairly easy to boost those though. Your Crit Chance and Crit Damage are overkill when you don't meet the minimum requirements for everything, so you should be able to get a 500-600 LoH Amulet (with stats), and a sword/dagger for your offhand. You'll lose some damage, but 20k is enough, and you're at double that.
Boots with movement speed will also help, since I think you need at least 9% to get 4 tornadoes from Sprint.
And the easiest switch-out is using the Enchantress. +Armor and +ASpd will be much more useful than extra Crit Chance (I think 30% is the bare minimum, and you're at 52.5%). What are the minimum requirements for everything?
I think I remember reading...
600 AR
6000 Armor
40000 Life
20k Damage
30% Crit Chance
1500 LoH
And I think 1.6 ASpd.
Obviously some can be lower if others are higher.
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On August 06 2012 07:17 Burrfoot wrote:
I guess I don't really understand the no-primary fury gen skill builds with overpower - how does one generate the initial rage to shout/sprint? I guess I haven't figured out how to normal attack.
If I'm at 0 fury I run up to a monster and auto-attack for either 1 or 2 hits. I then do my two shouts, then overpower. Usually I will have the fury to sprint! If not, you basically stand and take a hit or two from a monster and you'll have enough fury to get started. It feels weird to begin with, but with practice it's very easy.
Also, if you're using the Superstition passive you can also just run into a plague/molten/desecrator etc and get fury extremely quickly. With overpower active, most of these effects HEAL you due to the reflected damage activating your LOH.
On August 06 2012 08:26 Sylvr wrote:
The Overpower version has better damage and survivability, but your consistency and transit speed go way down. If you're using Bash or Frenzy, then you can afford to Sprint everywhere, even when there are no mobs around, but with Overpower, you have to save every ounce of fury to ensure that you can start up again.
I'm not sure exactly what you mean by consistency, but I can tell you that transit speed is just a matter of practice. I always aim to end every fight with a freshly buffed Battle Shout and 100 fury. Snatch the loot and:
* If your War Cry is available, you can safely use all your fury
* If War Cry is not available, you may want to be more conservative with your fury.
In general, I'm ALWAYS sprinting to the next group!
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Consistency as in, you aren't as likely to stall out. I ran the Overpower build for a while, and it was really powerful, but sometimes you just get unlucky with crits and don't generate enough Fury to sustain, or you catch some CC while WotB is on cooldown, or you get walled and simply can't build Fury because you can't get them in a Tornado.
With Bash or Frenzy, you just smack them a few times and off you go. If all you have is Overpower, and it doesn't proc Into the Fray (or you can't afford to take the hits to get Fury from Crushing Advance), then sometimes you just have to run away and wait for your cooldowns and pray that you don't die before you can get off the ground again. Also, it isn't always as easy to just "take a few hits" to get Fury from Crushing Advance. In order to get Fury from getting hit, the reflect damage has to crit, and then that crit has to proc Into the Fray (Does anyone even know it's proc rate?), and if you're at <5 Fury, then that has to happen twice within 3 seconds. How hard that is depends on how many, and what, you are fighting. The more mobs there are, the better your chance of getting the Fury you need, but also the better chance of you taking too much damage.
This isn't just idle speculation- I've done the build, and all of these situations occurred occasionally, sometimes several times a run. There are a few precautions you can take to partially shore up these weaknesses, but they all take something away from the efficiency of the build (such as using a Mighty Weapon so that you can get a few extra Fury from auto-attacks, or Inspiring Presence so that you can get a second Warcry in the duration of Battle Cry, or Unforgiving so that you just don't lose Fury, and you build it up between packs). When you factor in the DPS loss of using one of these safety nets, you might as well just scrap Overpower altogether and use Bash/Frenzy. You'll save yourself a lot of frustration in the long run.
Besides that, It's a major pain in the ass trying to kill Goblins or other mobs that run away since you aren't always guaranteed a corner to run them in to.
I will say that every WW/Sprint barb should at least know how to use the Overpower version though, as it teaches you things about the build that you might not catch otherwise, and also, there are some fights where it will make your life a whole lot easier (Ghom, for instance)
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Need another advice, for a sword and board barb, if I am looking for more dps, would the belt with 10% frenzy damage worth the price? 10% damage in one affix seems really good
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EPT
