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On June 23 2012 06:21 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2012 00:14 TheYango wrote:
SoE's value in equivalent resistances is just astronomically high when you have lots of other resist/armor gear. I did the math a while earlier in the thread--at 600 resist all, a 15% SoE provides the same EHP gain vs. melee that 160 Resist All does. There's actually been threads on other forums saying how string isn't as good as people think because it gets calculated near the end. I actually feel that way too, I replaced my 16% 120 str 35 vit string with a 190 str 80 vit 70 all res belt and felt like I was actually taking less damage. Give it a try, especially right now before other people catch on while good barb belts are still cheap and strings are still very expensive.
I think Barbarian specific belts are going to make a huge swing back in terms of popularity. This new patch has opened up more viable builds in Inferno, and doesn't force the majority into a boring sub-10k DPS tank role. Specifically, Barabrian belts which add Frenzy damage I think will become more desirable as they add something like 8-12% to our Frenzy autoattack, which is a huge boost to DPS. Or something like Seismic Slam increase damage/Crit for SS specific builds.
Side note: I can't be the only one disappointed Barbarian specific weapons are so crappy. In the beginning I thought it was so cool to see Barbarians wield a fucking gigantic sword, or a sickle, or a meat cleaver, but now the best weapons are all visually MEHHH... Hope they really do buff Legendary weapons a lot to be able to fight with something more visually appealing.
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United States47024 Posts
On June 23 2012 06:21 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2012 00:14 TheYango wrote:
SoE's value in equivalent resistances is just astronomically high when you have lots of other resist/armor gear. I did the math a while earlier in the thread--at 600 resist all, a 15% SoE provides the same EHP gain vs. melee that 160 Resist All does. There's actually been threads on other forums saying how string isn't as good as people think because it gets calculated near the end. I actually feel that way too, I replaced my 16% 120 str 35 vit string with a 190 str 80 vit 70 all res belt and felt like I was actually taking less damage. Give it a try, especially right now before other people catch on while good barb belts are still cheap and strings are still very expensive.
WTH does "calculated near the end" even mean. It's a multiplicative damage reduction, order in which they're applied doesn't matter lol.
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On June 23 2012 06:17 kethers wrote:
I've never been a big fan of Fury spenders. In my experience, while they offer some burst DPS, there are many other useful skills that override then in terms of importance. (not to mention Berserker Rage is an awesome DPS passive)
I ran with dual wield for the earlier levels of Barb from 1-40ish, but swapped it to 1H/shield due to pre-patch Hell and Inferno difficulties, so most of what I say will be theorycraft-ish.
In comparison with other options, such as 1H/shield or 2H, DW has an advantage of faster attack speed and additional stats, but lacks in the defensive and high DPS arenas. It is my humble opinion, that most likely DW would be most effective when run using a high Crit and Crit damage spec, which utilizes its higher speed and stats to cover its lower damage in comparison with a 2H. Things that proc on hit, such as life on hit or the like benefit more with higher attack speed due to proc chance. Having adequate gear in the form of VIT and RA with emphasis on STR will be very necessary as you still need to be in melee range and you might not have the armor passives with DW if you want things like Weapon Master or Ruthless.
I hope it helps in terms of a start, but in no way am I qualified to speak in terms of experience or a definitive source.
Thanks for your reply. I can always play tank mode for super serious Inferno progression but I'm looking for something to blast stuff down with DPS for farming runs in A1/A2. Tank just takes forever to get these kinds of runs done. I usually take Berserker Rage but I swapped it out for Relentless cause dying is expensive
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http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#WPQVki!ZYa!ZZZZca
Critical build pretty much...
I wonder what it will take to actually tank Act 3/4 Inferno without a shield and the armor passives? Especially after the Inferno damage nerf, it might work but the bosses might still rape you though.
This build obviously will need to take advantage of dual-wielding Axes with crit damage modifier AND a socket for more crit damage. Axes are preferred over Maces for a tad bit more attack speed (1.30 vs 1.20), but I guess as long as you are using the same type, whatever has the better DPS and stats works. No need for LoH since Pound of Flesh and Frenzy healing should be enough, I guess except Bosses?
Without crit chance modifiers in any of your items, this build already gives a big base chance of getting a critical (at least 18%, up to 38%, NOT in WotB mode), so I don't think it's necessary to invest more in crit chance items, but rather just focus on the usual str/vit/allres. No need to boost crit damage either as long as your weapon has inherent crit damage property along with a socket. Technically you already have 100% base crit damage from the build, so realistically both weapons should yield you at least another 100% each, total of 300%+
This is only theory crafting, and I haven't really tested it because I only have a 10 million or so to spend, and I'm not the risky type lol. I did this build from Normal until the end of Hell because it was fairly cheap and easy to do, but when I hit Inferno a few weeks ago, I didn't bother sticking with it and rolled the usual defensive Barb. Anybody with a bigger bank roll care to test this build? 
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Trinxified, note that for your crit build you only need an axe for your main hand. The off hand can be whatever weapon you want, you will only get 10% crit once.
I'm not sure about the healing though. I tested the frenzy rune in act I with some non LOH items and the results were quite underwhelming. The zombies were hitting for much than the 6% over 8 seconds for each hit, and the monsters in the later acts hit much harder/take longer to kill. Revenge is a popular choice, but everyone takes the 30% proc rune - by taking one of the 15% one you're reducing the rate at which you can use this. The health orb passive is interesting, though I'm concerned about how consistently you can heal.
One more thing is that with high crit, a lot of runes for skills become feasible. One popular combo is Battle Rage Into the Fray (+15 fury) with WotB Thrive on Chaos (extra time for WotB). When you have something that can crit very frequently (e.g. sprint tornado) this means having an almost permanent WotB uptime and all-you-can-spend fury for something like whirlwind. There are also runes which generate blood explosions,one that makes health globes drop, etc.
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On June 23 2012 21:09 zylog wrote:
Trinxified, note that for your crit build you only need an axe for your main hand. The off hand can be whatever weapon you want, you will only get 10% crit once.
I'm not sure about the healing though. I tested the frenzy rune in act I with some non LOH items and the results were quite underwhelming. The zombies were hitting for much than the 6% over 8 seconds for each hit, and the monsters in the later acts hit much harder/take longer to kill. Revenge is a popular choice, but everyone takes the 30% proc rune - by taking one of the 15% one you're reducing the rate at which you can use this. The health orb passive is interesting, though I'm concerned about how consistently you can heal.
One more thing is that with high crit, a lot of runes for skills become feasible. One popular combo is Battle Rage Into the Fray (+15 fury) with WotB Thrive on Chaos (extra time for WotB). When you have something that can crit very frequently (e.g. sprint tornado) this means having an almost permanent WotB uptime and all-you-can-spend fury for something like whirlwind. There are also runes which generate blood explosions,one that makes health globes drop, etc.
I mentioned 2 axes because of the same attack speed (1.30), I believe if you equip a different attack speed weapon for dual-wielding, it would yield lower DPS right?
As I said, I haven't tested anything... I'd love to, but no gold or items to do it at the moment. I was thinking that Revenge will hopefully proc enough times for you to carry that crit chance buff. As far as Frenzy Rune, perhaps sidearm with LoH will work out better.
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^ what did that guy do? lol
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I have found these Black Mushrooms.
Anybody has any idea what can I do with them?
![[image loading]](https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/251959_10150914541352903_103521622_n.jpg)
I assume when I meet Adria I should ask her somehow?
(Now I'm in Inferno, Act I, Chapter 2)
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On June 24 2012 06:46 ForgottenOne wrote:I have found these Black Mushrooms. Anybody has any idea what can I do with them? I assume when I meet Adria I should ask her somehow? (Now I'm in Inferno, Act I, Chapter 2)
Probably a question better suited for the Q&A section, but it is used to make the Staff of Herding to open Whimsyshire
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On June 23 2012 06:40 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2012 06:21 hunts wrote:On June 23 2012 00:14 TheYango wrote:
SoE's value in equivalent resistances is just astronomically high when you have lots of other resist/armor gear. I did the math a while earlier in the thread--at 600 resist all, a 15% SoE provides the same EHP gain vs. melee that 160 Resist All does. There's actually been threads on other forums saying how string isn't as good as people think because it gets calculated near the end. I actually feel that way too, I replaced my 16% 120 str 35 vit string with a 190 str 80 vit 70 all res belt and felt like I was actually taking less damage. Give it a try, especially right now before other people catch on while good barb belts are still cheap and strings are still very expensive. WTH does "calculated near the end" even mean. It's a multiplicative damage reduction, order in which they're applied doesn't matter lol.
From what I understand each damage reduction (block, armor, resist, physical damage reduction, elite damage reduction etc...) is it's own category, and there is an order they go in when you take damage. I don't know the exact order, just that armor reduces damage first, and block last. This would mean that having a lot of armor will reduce the initial big damage by the the most, then what's left will be reduced by resist, then what's left by physical/elite damage reduction, then what's left has a chance to be blocked for a flat amount.
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On June 24 2012 06:46 ForgottenOne wrote:I have found these Black Mushrooms. Anybody has any idea what can I do with them? I assume when I meet Adria I should ask her somehow? (Now I'm in Inferno, Act I, Chapter 2)
As mentioned, it is used to open whimsyshire.
The more fun aspect of it is that this is a direct reference to diablo 1, in which one of the quests involved finding this mushroom for adria. I believe in was to be found in the caves, and was used for a magic potion.
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On June 24 2012 12:42 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2012 06:40 TheYango wrote:On June 23 2012 06:21 hunts wrote:On June 23 2012 00:14 TheYango wrote:
SoE's value in equivalent resistances is just astronomically high when you have lots of other resist/armor gear. I did the math a while earlier in the thread--at 600 resist all, a 15% SoE provides the same EHP gain vs. melee that 160 Resist All does. There's actually been threads on other forums saying how string isn't as good as people think because it gets calculated near the end. I actually feel that way too, I replaced my 16% 120 str 35 vit string with a 190 str 80 vit 70 all res belt and felt like I was actually taking less damage. Give it a try, especially right now before other people catch on while good barb belts are still cheap and strings are still very expensive. WTH does "calculated near the end" even mean. It's a multiplicative damage reduction, order in which they're applied doesn't matter lol. From what I understand each damage reduction (block, armor, resist, physical damage reduction, elite damage reduction etc...) is it's own category, and there is an order they go in when you take damage. I don't know the exact order, just that armor reduces damage first, and block last. This would mean that having a lot of armor will reduce the initial big damage by the the most, then what's left will be reduced by resist, then what's left by physical/elite damage reduction, then what's left has a chance to be blocked for a flat amount.
I see the commutativity of multiplication is giving people trouble.
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United States47024 Posts
On June 24 2012 12:42 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2012 06:40 TheYango wrote:On June 23 2012 06:21 hunts wrote:On June 23 2012 00:14 TheYango wrote:
SoE's value in equivalent resistances is just astronomically high when you have lots of other resist/armor gear. I did the math a while earlier in the thread--at 600 resist all, a 15% SoE provides the same EHP gain vs. melee that 160 Resist All does. There's actually been threads on other forums saying how string isn't as good as people think because it gets calculated near the end. I actually feel that way too, I replaced my 16% 120 str 35 vit string with a 190 str 80 vit 70 all res belt and felt like I was actually taking less damage. Give it a try, especially right now before other people catch on while good barb belts are still cheap and strings are still very expensive. WTH does "calculated near the end" even mean. It's a multiplicative damage reduction, order in which they're applied doesn't matter lol. From what I understand each damage reduction (block, armor, resist, physical damage reduction, elite damage reduction etc...) is it's own category, and there is an order they go in when you take damage. I don't know the exact order, just that armor reduces damage first, and block last. This would mean that having a lot of armor will reduce the initial big damage by the the most, then what's left will be reduced by resist, then what's left by physical/elite damage reduction, then what's left has a chance to be blocked for a flat amount.
Except for Block, which everyone already knows is applied last (and is better because it's applied last), it doesn't matter what order they're applies because they're all multiplicatve reductions.
0.7*0.6*0.5 = 0.6*0.5*0.7
It doesn't make an ounce of difference which reduction stat is applied first.
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Belial is frustrating. Been running act 2 for a week or so but only tried Belial yesterday with a DH friend. Such a long fight, and one little mistake and it's done. Friend kept dying, I kept ressing, we only did two attempts before stopping. I tried it solo, got him to like 30% then lost concentration dodging those explosions.
I hear he kind of does a soft enrage at 15%? Can I beat him with just perseverance? My stats are like... 39k HP, 11.5k dps (16000 when maniac is charged), 800-1000 all resist, like 8500 armour.
Also the bugged loot is annoying too. Did a few full clears of act 2 and didn't even get any items to sell. I can run through act 1 in like an hour and get just as many 63 items >_< (not many anyhow)
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On June 25 2012 12:46 SoleSteeler wrote:Also the bugged loot is annoying too. Did a few full clears of act 2 and didn't even get any items to sell. I can run through act 1 in like an hour and get just as many 63 items >_< (not many anyhow)
All my stats were lower, except for dps, when I killed him. It's very possible, though you'll likely run into enrage unless you're using WotB/EQ.
edit: I don't know about soft enrage, but he enrages 3 minutes into phase 3, and when he does he just spams explosions all day long.
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On June 25 2012 12:46 SoleSteeler wrote:
Belial is frustrating. Been running act 2 for a week or so but only tried Belial yesterday with a DH friend. Such a long fight, and one little mistake and it's done. Friend kept dying, I kept ressing, we only did two attempts before stopping. I tried it solo, got him to like 30% then lost concentration dodging those explosions.
I hear he kind of does a soft enrage at 15%? Can I beat him with just perseverance? My stats are like... 39k HP, 11.5k dps (16000 when maniac is charged), 800-1000 all resist, like 8500 armour.
Also the bugged loot is annoying too. Did a few full clears of act 2 and didn't even get any items to sell. I can run through act 1 in like an hour and get just as many 63 items >_< (not many anyhow)
I can beat him on solo. I have little more dps than you (12000 with no buff but i have berserker rage and frenzy with damage rune) i only have 800 resist after warcry, My armor is 10.5k (after 2 passive). I use Ignore pain with 7 sec rune and leap with iron impact to get through that poison bomb. Belial will normally die at around the time when his enrage time start.
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Guys how good is % to frenzy dmg (from belts and such)?
How do I calculate it if I wanna know how much dmg will I get from a belt off the AH?
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Often the trade-off for getting % damage to skills on belt is lower strength which can be easily compared. For example, a 250 strength belt is better than a 100 strength + 10% frenzy damage belt until you get up towards 1600 strength (total strength before counting belt slot). Just compare the ratio of strength (1850/1700 = 1.088 = +8.8%) to the % damage and adjust a bit for lost damage on other skills.
If you're losing vit or all res things aren't so clear of course. In general I'd look at % damage to skills as being like magic find; great when you find it on an already good piece of gear and very expensive when you do.
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EPT
