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On June 02 2012 07:53 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2012 07:40 diophan wrote:On June 02 2012 07:12 FallDownMarigold wrote:On June 02 2012 06:52 diophan wrote:On June 02 2012 06:42 dAPhREAk wrote:On June 02 2012 06:40 Dfgj wrote:On June 02 2012 06:36 dAPhREAk wrote:On June 02 2012 06:34 trinxified wrote:On June 02 2012 06:32 dAPhREAk wrote:On June 02 2012 06:29 trinxified wrote:
[quote]
yeah sounds confusing but I get it. Bottom line: 2-hand 0.90 weapon, and boost attack speed from gloves/rings/amulets. I'm gonna stick with this, because 1-hand plus off-hand seems complicated and doesn't work for blizz/hydra or arcane/hydra builds.
what do you mean off-hand doesnt work for bliz/hydra or arcane/hydra? Everyone here says it's better to do 2-hand for those builds, that's what I meant. if you can get higher damage for a one hand and off-hand than a 2-hand then it is not better to get a 2-hand. they are saying (correct me if i am wrong) that its cheaper to get high damage 2-hand weapons and then make up for the slow speed with IAS on rings/gloves/etc. either way, the spells are based on the damage output, not whether it is one or two hand. Big if - you're pretty much never going to find a 1h+offhand that can match a 2h of the same quality in terms of damage per hit. Maybe if you had a perfect Grim Demolisher/Centurion Spear of Death (which are both 1.20 speed weapons, so you're heading the same route to slower attack = more damage anyway), if not a yellow one with the same mods and +criticals and an insane Demlich with max dmg and +criticals. The benefit of that is you can also get multiple +int/+vit/+crit mods, which a perfect 2h could only get one set of. You'd still probably do more damage per single hit with the 2h. i agree its a big if, but not all of us are at the top levels and buying multimillion dollar weapons. people shouldnt think they need to get a 2h to have an optimal build. there are plenty of 1h + off-hand that are better until you can afford the big 2H. when i find a 2-hand that is better than me 1-hand and off-hand, i will switch. I don't understand your point at all. I spent 1.4mil on my weapon and it does almost 1450 damage per attack. You can spend like 100k and get one that does over 1000. You'll spend at least three times as much as 1.4mil to get the same damage per attack, even after factoring in the extra stats the source gives you. Hmm. I have a ~900dmg 1hander and a ~300dmg source = 1200 total base dmg. 1H Base speed = 1.4. On top of that I have 3 15% IAS modifiers from other items. I use Blizz + Venom Hydra and I also have Piercing Orb, which is why the attack speed is so important for me. Using a 2h at .9 or even up to say 1.2 base speed means the primary casting of piercing orb is far too slow, so I prefer to spend the extra money achieving 1200 base dmg than I would have to spend to achieve 1200 base dmg on a 2H. That being said, it is even safe to assume that 900dps 1h + 300 source is more expensive by far than a 1200dps 2h? I don't know if it's "at least three times as much". Again, I was talking about the AO build, so mentioning dps is pointless. You need to read more carefully what I posted because you're arguing against something I didn't write. Also how are you calculating your source as +300 dps? Are you just multipying the avg. +damage by attack speed on the weapon? If you're factoring in IAS I think you're cheating a bit but okay. I've also never seen a wizard life on hit build that works, since getting maybe 1k HP back per second if you completely warp your gear around it isn't worth it when mobs hit for 20k+ EDIT: I was writing this before you posted your last reply. Sounds like you're not stacking attack speed at all nor crit, or if you do go crit it's very little because you don't have an offhand to support it. How much damage do you have that way? Even if you do more per arcane cost, it really limits your kiting capabilities and puts you at full arcane power really often on elites at 1.1 attack speed. Not to mention that your primary spell or hydra benefits from both crit and attack speed.
Hydra definitely doesn't do more damage than AO, and I'm AP starved with astral presence on everything except really stupid combinations like mortar + invulnerable minions/shielding.
I have 42k DPS but I feel like the number is rather useless since that mostly reflects my gear level. And yeah I go out of my way not to get +attack speed items, since like I said I'm already AP starved. If you look on the AH the price of the IAS amulets/rings with other decent affixes is stupid anyway.
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Funny how everyone said hydra would be worthless in beta, now every single wizard is using it. :p
Hopefully blizzard will make more builds viable in inferno.
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On June 02 2012 08:01 KaiserJohan wrote:
Funny how everyone said hydra would be worthless in beta, now every single wizard is using it. :p
Hopefully blizzard will make more builds viable in inferno.
Yeah apparently you don't need venom hydra to kill the skeleton king on normal difficulty 
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On June 02 2012 07:59 diophan wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2012 07:53 Itsmedudeman wrote:On June 02 2012 07:40 diophan wrote:On June 02 2012 07:12 FallDownMarigold wrote:On June 02 2012 06:52 diophan wrote:On June 02 2012 06:42 dAPhREAk wrote:On June 02 2012 06:40 Dfgj wrote:On June 02 2012 06:36 dAPhREAk wrote:On June 02 2012 06:34 trinxified wrote:On June 02 2012 06:32 dAPhREAk wrote:
[quote]
what do you mean off-hand doesnt work for bliz/hydra or arcane/hydra? Everyone here says it's better to do 2-hand for those builds, that's what I meant. if you can get higher damage for a one hand and off-hand than a 2-hand then it is not better to get a 2-hand. they are saying (correct me if i am wrong) that its cheaper to get high damage 2-hand weapons and then make up for the slow speed with IAS on rings/gloves/etc. either way, the spells are based on the damage output, not whether it is one or two hand. Big if - you're pretty much never going to find a 1h+offhand that can match a 2h of the same quality in terms of damage per hit. Maybe if you had a perfect Grim Demolisher/Centurion Spear of Death (which are both 1.20 speed weapons, so you're heading the same route to slower attack = more damage anyway), if not a yellow one with the same mods and +criticals and an insane Demlich with max dmg and +criticals. The benefit of that is you can also get multiple +int/+vit/+crit mods, which a perfect 2h could only get one set of. You'd still probably do more damage per single hit with the 2h. i agree its a big if, but not all of us are at the top levels and buying multimillion dollar weapons. people shouldnt think they need to get a 2h to have an optimal build. there are plenty of 1h + off-hand that are better until you can afford the big 2H. when i find a 2-hand that is better than me 1-hand and off-hand, i will switch. I don't understand your point at all. I spent 1.4mil on my weapon and it does almost 1450 damage per attack. You can spend like 100k and get one that does over 1000. You'll spend at least three times as much as 1.4mil to get the same damage per attack, even after factoring in the extra stats the source gives you. Hmm. I have a ~900dmg 1hander and a ~300dmg source = 1200 total base dmg. 1H Base speed = 1.4. On top of that I have 3 15% IAS modifiers from other items. I use Blizz + Venom Hydra and I also have Piercing Orb, which is why the attack speed is so important for me. Using a 2h at .9 or even up to say 1.2 base speed means the primary casting of piercing orb is far too slow, so I prefer to spend the extra money achieving 1200 base dmg than I would have to spend to achieve 1200 base dmg on a 2H. That being said, it is even safe to assume that 900dps 1h + 300 source is more expensive by far than a 1200dps 2h? I don't know if it's "at least three times as much". Again, I was talking about the AO build, so mentioning dps is pointless. You need to read more carefully what I posted because you're arguing against something I didn't write. Also how are you calculating your source as +300 dps? Are you just multipying the avg. +damage by attack speed on the weapon? If you're factoring in IAS I think you're cheating a bit but okay. I've also never seen a wizard life on hit build that works, since getting maybe 1k HP back per second if you completely warp your gear around it isn't worth it when mobs hit for 20k+ EDIT: I was writing this before you posted your last reply. Sounds like you're not stacking attack speed at all nor crit, or if you do go crit it's very little because you don't have an offhand to support it. How much damage do you have that way? Even if you do more per arcane cost, it really limits your kiting capabilities and puts you at full arcane power really often on elites at 1.1 attack speed. Not to mention that your primary spell or hydra benefits from both crit and attack speed. Hydra definitely doesn't do more damage than AO, and I'm AP starved with astral presence on everything except really stupid combinations like mortar + invulnerable minions/shielding. I have 42k DPS but I feel like the number is rather useless since that mostly reflects my gear level. And yeah I go out of my way not to get +attack speed items, since like I said I'm already AP starved. If you look on the AH the price of the IAS amulets/rings with other decent affixes is stupid anyway.
Hydra and arcane orb is very common, and hydra per arcane cost does more damage than arcane orb. Are you using blizzard arcane orb? In which case you don't do more damage really.
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On June 02 2012 08:05 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2012 07:59 diophan wrote:On June 02 2012 07:53 Itsmedudeman wrote:On June 02 2012 07:40 diophan wrote:On June 02 2012 07:12 FallDownMarigold wrote:On June 02 2012 06:52 diophan wrote:On June 02 2012 06:42 dAPhREAk wrote:On June 02 2012 06:40 Dfgj wrote:On June 02 2012 06:36 dAPhREAk wrote:On June 02 2012 06:34 trinxified wrote:
[quote]
Everyone here says it's better to do 2-hand for those builds, that's what I meant. if you can get higher damage for a one hand and off-hand than a 2-hand then it is not better to get a 2-hand. they are saying (correct me if i am wrong) that its cheaper to get high damage 2-hand weapons and then make up for the slow speed with IAS on rings/gloves/etc. either way, the spells are based on the damage output, not whether it is one or two hand. Big if - you're pretty much never going to find a 1h+offhand that can match a 2h of the same quality in terms of damage per hit. Maybe if you had a perfect Grim Demolisher/Centurion Spear of Death (which are both 1.20 speed weapons, so you're heading the same route to slower attack = more damage anyway), if not a yellow one with the same mods and +criticals and an insane Demlich with max dmg and +criticals. The benefit of that is you can also get multiple +int/+vit/+crit mods, which a perfect 2h could only get one set of. You'd still probably do more damage per single hit with the 2h. i agree its a big if, but not all of us are at the top levels and buying multimillion dollar weapons. people shouldnt think they need to get a 2h to have an optimal build. there are plenty of 1h + off-hand that are better until you can afford the big 2H. when i find a 2-hand that is better than me 1-hand and off-hand, i will switch. I don't understand your point at all. I spent 1.4mil on my weapon and it does almost 1450 damage per attack. You can spend like 100k and get one that does over 1000. You'll spend at least three times as much as 1.4mil to get the same damage per attack, even after factoring in the extra stats the source gives you. Hmm. I have a ~900dmg 1hander and a ~300dmg source = 1200 total base dmg. 1H Base speed = 1.4. On top of that I have 3 15% IAS modifiers from other items. I use Blizz + Venom Hydra and I also have Piercing Orb, which is why the attack speed is so important for me. Using a 2h at .9 or even up to say 1.2 base speed means the primary casting of piercing orb is far too slow, so I prefer to spend the extra money achieving 1200 base dmg than I would have to spend to achieve 1200 base dmg on a 2H. That being said, it is even safe to assume that 900dps 1h + 300 source is more expensive by far than a 1200dps 2h? I don't know if it's "at least three times as much". Again, I was talking about the AO build, so mentioning dps is pointless. You need to read more carefully what I posted because you're arguing against something I didn't write. Also how are you calculating your source as +300 dps? Are you just multipying the avg. +damage by attack speed on the weapon? If you're factoring in IAS I think you're cheating a bit but okay. I've also never seen a wizard life on hit build that works, since getting maybe 1k HP back per second if you completely warp your gear around it isn't worth it when mobs hit for 20k+ EDIT: I was writing this before you posted your last reply. Sounds like you're not stacking attack speed at all nor crit, or if you do go crit it's very little because you don't have an offhand to support it. How much damage do you have that way? Even if you do more per arcane cost, it really limits your kiting capabilities and puts you at full arcane power really often on elites at 1.1 attack speed. Not to mention that your primary spell or hydra benefits from both crit and attack speed. Hydra definitely doesn't do more damage than AO, and I'm AP starved with astral presence on everything except really stupid combinations like mortar + invulnerable minions/shielding. I have 42k DPS but I feel like the number is rather useless since that mostly reflects my gear level. And yeah I go out of my way not to get +attack speed items, since like I said I'm already AP starved. If you look on the AH the price of the IAS amulets/rings with other decent affixes is stupid anyway. Hydra and arcane orb is very common, and hydra per arcane cost does more damage than arcane orb. Are you using blizzard arcane orb? In which case you don't do more damage really.
Yeah but you can only have 1 hydra out at a time so I guess I don't understand what you mean... you want to optimize your damage per second, so you use venom hydra because it has the best damage/AP in the game but you can only have one so you need an AP sink that does a lot of damage which is what the AO is. AO doesn't benefit from attack speed unless you count kiting and I can kite just fine with 1.15 attacks/sec except with a couple of combinations of elite affixes. I actually tried to bump down to 1 attack/sec but I couldn't kite reliably so I'm back to 1.15.
For clarification yes I am using the AO/hydra build maybe I said something ambiguous before. I understand that you gear very differently and I can see it working but it seemed like a pretty big investment to me to see if it would work or not and if after spending all my money I still didn't have enough crit I didn't want to be stuck.
I'm using teleport+fracture and +12% movement boots. The teleport+fracture I feel would be necessary even with higher attack speed to get out of certain elite abilities, especially something like jailer+mortar. The fact that I can sometimes use it to nuke while my images are being targeted is just gravy.
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On June 02 2012 08:05 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2012 07:59 diophan wrote:On June 02 2012 07:53 Itsmedudeman wrote:On June 02 2012 07:40 diophan wrote:On June 02 2012 07:12 FallDownMarigold wrote:On June 02 2012 06:52 diophan wrote:On June 02 2012 06:42 dAPhREAk wrote:On June 02 2012 06:40 Dfgj wrote:On June 02 2012 06:36 dAPhREAk wrote:On June 02 2012 06:34 trinxified wrote:
[quote]
Everyone here says it's better to do 2-hand for those builds, that's what I meant. if you can get higher damage for a one hand and off-hand than a 2-hand then it is not better to get a 2-hand. they are saying (correct me if i am wrong) that its cheaper to get high damage 2-hand weapons and then make up for the slow speed with IAS on rings/gloves/etc. either way, the spells are based on the damage output, not whether it is one or two hand. Big if - you're pretty much never going to find a 1h+offhand that can match a 2h of the same quality in terms of damage per hit. Maybe if you had a perfect Grim Demolisher/Centurion Spear of Death (which are both 1.20 speed weapons, so you're heading the same route to slower attack = more damage anyway), if not a yellow one with the same mods and +criticals and an insane Demlich with max dmg and +criticals. The benefit of that is you can also get multiple +int/+vit/+crit mods, which a perfect 2h could only get one set of. You'd still probably do more damage per single hit with the 2h. i agree its a big if, but not all of us are at the top levels and buying multimillion dollar weapons. people shouldnt think they need to get a 2h to have an optimal build. there are plenty of 1h + off-hand that are better until you can afford the big 2H. when i find a 2-hand that is better than me 1-hand and off-hand, i will switch. I don't understand your point at all. I spent 1.4mil on my weapon and it does almost 1450 damage per attack. You can spend like 100k and get one that does over 1000. You'll spend at least three times as much as 1.4mil to get the same damage per attack, even after factoring in the extra stats the source gives you. Hmm. I have a ~900dmg 1hander and a ~300dmg source = 1200 total base dmg. 1H Base speed = 1.4. On top of that I have 3 15% IAS modifiers from other items. I use Blizz + Venom Hydra and I also have Piercing Orb, which is why the attack speed is so important for me. Using a 2h at .9 or even up to say 1.2 base speed means the primary casting of piercing orb is far too slow, so I prefer to spend the extra money achieving 1200 base dmg than I would have to spend to achieve 1200 base dmg on a 2H. That being said, it is even safe to assume that 900dps 1h + 300 source is more expensive by far than a 1200dps 2h? I don't know if it's "at least three times as much". Again, I was talking about the AO build, so mentioning dps is pointless. You need to read more carefully what I posted because you're arguing against something I didn't write. Also how are you calculating your source as +300 dps? Are you just multipying the avg. +damage by attack speed on the weapon? If you're factoring in IAS I think you're cheating a bit but okay. I've also never seen a wizard life on hit build that works, since getting maybe 1k HP back per second if you completely warp your gear around it isn't worth it when mobs hit for 20k+ EDIT: I was writing this before you posted your last reply. Sounds like you're not stacking attack speed at all nor crit, or if you do go crit it's very little because you don't have an offhand to support it. How much damage do you have that way? Even if you do more per arcane cost, it really limits your kiting capabilities and puts you at full arcane power really often on elites at 1.1 attack speed. Not to mention that your primary spell or hydra benefits from both crit and attack speed. Hydra definitely doesn't do more damage than AO, and I'm AP starved with astral presence on everything except really stupid combinations like mortar + invulnerable minions/shielding. I have 42k DPS but I feel like the number is rather useless since that mostly reflects my gear level. And yeah I go out of my way not to get +attack speed items, since like I said I'm already AP starved. If you look on the AH the price of the IAS amulets/rings with other decent affixes is stupid anyway. Hydra and arcane orb is very common, and hydra per arcane cost does more damage than arcane orb. Are you using blizzard arcane orb? In which case you don't do more damage really.
Impossible to have enough AP to have Arcane Orb and Blizzard together. MAYBE, only when you have both on the 20 AP runes.
But I don't think you can use Hydra with that either. Definitely AP starved, even if you have 140 base AP from skills/passives.
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So nobody uses a Shield anymore?? And why is that, if I may ask 
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On June 02 2012 08:29 3nickma wrote:So nobody uses a Shield anymore?? And why is that, if I may ask
If you're running a one-hander, you lose 300 raw damage by going a shield. The primary builds that you use inferno (AO/hydra, blizzard/hydra) require both damage and survivability and the shield trades away too much damage to be worthwhile.
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On June 02 2012 08:10 diophan wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2012 08:05 Itsmedudeman wrote:On June 02 2012 07:59 diophan wrote:On June 02 2012 07:53 Itsmedudeman wrote:On June 02 2012 07:40 diophan wrote:On June 02 2012 07:12 FallDownMarigold wrote:On June 02 2012 06:52 diophan wrote:On June 02 2012 06:42 dAPhREAk wrote:On June 02 2012 06:40 Dfgj wrote:On June 02 2012 06:36 dAPhREAk wrote:
[quote]
if you can get higher damage for a one hand and off-hand than a 2-hand then it is not better to get a 2-hand. they are saying (correct me if i am wrong) that its cheaper to get high damage 2-hand weapons and then make up for the slow speed with IAS on rings/gloves/etc. either way, the spells are based on the damage output, not whether it is one or two hand. Big if - you're pretty much never going to find a 1h+offhand that can match a 2h of the same quality in terms of damage per hit. Maybe if you had a perfect Grim Demolisher/Centurion Spear of Death (which are both 1.20 speed weapons, so you're heading the same route to slower attack = more damage anyway), if not a yellow one with the same mods and +criticals and an insane Demlich with max dmg and +criticals. The benefit of that is you can also get multiple +int/+vit/+crit mods, which a perfect 2h could only get one set of. You'd still probably do more damage per single hit with the 2h. i agree its a big if, but not all of us are at the top levels and buying multimillion dollar weapons. people shouldnt think they need to get a 2h to have an optimal build. there are plenty of 1h + off-hand that are better until you can afford the big 2H. when i find a 2-hand that is better than me 1-hand and off-hand, i will switch. I don't understand your point at all. I spent 1.4mil on my weapon and it does almost 1450 damage per attack. You can spend like 100k and get one that does over 1000. You'll spend at least three times as much as 1.4mil to get the same damage per attack, even after factoring in the extra stats the source gives you. Hmm. I have a ~900dmg 1hander and a ~300dmg source = 1200 total base dmg. 1H Base speed = 1.4. On top of that I have 3 15% IAS modifiers from other items. I use Blizz + Venom Hydra and I also have Piercing Orb, which is why the attack speed is so important for me. Using a 2h at .9 or even up to say 1.2 base speed means the primary casting of piercing orb is far too slow, so I prefer to spend the extra money achieving 1200 base dmg than I would have to spend to achieve 1200 base dmg on a 2H. That being said, it is even safe to assume that 900dps 1h + 300 source is more expensive by far than a 1200dps 2h? I don't know if it's "at least three times as much". Again, I was talking about the AO build, so mentioning dps is pointless. You need to read more carefully what I posted because you're arguing against something I didn't write. Also how are you calculating your source as +300 dps? Are you just multipying the avg. +damage by attack speed on the weapon? If you're factoring in IAS I think you're cheating a bit but okay. I've also never seen a wizard life on hit build that works, since getting maybe 1k HP back per second if you completely warp your gear around it isn't worth it when mobs hit for 20k+ EDIT: I was writing this before you posted your last reply. Sounds like you're not stacking attack speed at all nor crit, or if you do go crit it's very little because you don't have an offhand to support it. How much damage do you have that way? Even if you do more per arcane cost, it really limits your kiting capabilities and puts you at full arcane power really often on elites at 1.1 attack speed. Not to mention that your primary spell or hydra benefits from both crit and attack speed. Hydra definitely doesn't do more damage than AO, and I'm AP starved with astral presence on everything except really stupid combinations like mortar + invulnerable minions/shielding. I have 42k DPS but I feel like the number is rather useless since that mostly reflects my gear level. And yeah I go out of my way not to get +attack speed items, since like I said I'm already AP starved. If you look on the AH the price of the IAS amulets/rings with other decent affixes is stupid anyway. Hydra and arcane orb is very common, and hydra per arcane cost does more damage than arcane orb. Are you using blizzard arcane orb? In which case you don't do more damage really. Yeah but you can only have 1 hydra out at a time so I guess I don't understand what you mean... you want to optimize your damage per second, so you use venom hydra because it has the best damage/AP in the game but you can only have one so you need an AP sink that does a lot of damage which is what the AO is. AO doesn't benefit from attack speed unless you count kiting and I can kite just fine with 1.15 attacks/sec except with a couple of combinations of elite affixes. I actually tried to bump down to 1 attack/sec but I couldn't kite reliably so I'm back to 1.15. For clarification yes I am using the AO/hydra build maybe I said something ambiguous before. I understand that you gear very differently and I can see it working but it seemed like a pretty big investment to me to see if it would work or not and if after spending all my money I still didn't have enough crit I didn't want to be stuck. I'm using teleport+fracture and +12% movement boots. The teleport+fracture I feel would be necessary even with higher attack speed to get out of certain elite abilities, especially something like jailer+mortar. The fact that I can sometimes use it to nuke while my images are being targeted is just gravy.
If you're not gearing for attack speed nor crit you're investing in the extra int for damage which is expensive in its own right. The only reason my gear is expensive is because it's simply more than I "need" when I'm at 55k dmg and 600 all resist. However, I started on a pretty modest budget of like 100-200k per armor piece. The thing is, when you get to a higher gear level you need to get another affix whether that be attack speed or crit otherwise you get capped out or overkill on the survival.
And I'm using arcane orb hydra for damage so...?
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On June 02 2012 08:29 3nickma wrote:So nobody uses a Shield anymore?? And why is that, if I may ask
Shield is only good on Barb and Monk. Actually, pretty much important for Inferno. Most of their builds rely on 1-handers anyway, not dual wielding.
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Lalalaland34491 Posts
1.01 attacks per second feels really slow while kiting but I can't find any gear with attack speed that would be on par with what I have now. 
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On June 02 2012 08:40 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2012 08:10 diophan wrote:On June 02 2012 08:05 Itsmedudeman wrote:On June 02 2012 07:59 diophan wrote:On June 02 2012 07:53 Itsmedudeman wrote:On June 02 2012 07:40 diophan wrote:On June 02 2012 07:12 FallDownMarigold wrote:On June 02 2012 06:52 diophan wrote:On June 02 2012 06:42 dAPhREAk wrote:On June 02 2012 06:40 Dfgj wrote:
[quote]
Big if - you're pretty much never going to find a 1h+offhand that can match a 2h of the same quality in terms of damage per hit. Maybe if you had a perfect Grim Demolisher/Centurion Spear of Death (which are both 1.20 speed weapons, so you're heading the same route to slower attack = more damage anyway), if not a yellow one with the same mods and +criticals and an insane Demlich with max dmg and +criticals.
The benefit of that is you can also get multiple +int/+vit/+crit mods, which a perfect 2h could only get one set of. You'd still probably do more damage per single hit with the 2h. i agree its a big if, but not all of us are at the top levels and buying multimillion dollar weapons. people shouldnt think they need to get a 2h to have an optimal build. there are plenty of 1h + off-hand that are better until you can afford the big 2H. when i find a 2-hand that is better than me 1-hand and off-hand, i will switch. I don't understand your point at all. I spent 1.4mil on my weapon and it does almost 1450 damage per attack. You can spend like 100k and get one that does over 1000. You'll spend at least three times as much as 1.4mil to get the same damage per attack, even after factoring in the extra stats the source gives you. Hmm. I have a ~900dmg 1hander and a ~300dmg source = 1200 total base dmg. 1H Base speed = 1.4. On top of that I have 3 15% IAS modifiers from other items. I use Blizz + Venom Hydra and I also have Piercing Orb, which is why the attack speed is so important for me. Using a 2h at .9 or even up to say 1.2 base speed means the primary casting of piercing orb is far too slow, so I prefer to spend the extra money achieving 1200 base dmg than I would have to spend to achieve 1200 base dmg on a 2H. That being said, it is even safe to assume that 900dps 1h + 300 source is more expensive by far than a 1200dps 2h? I don't know if it's "at least three times as much". Again, I was talking about the AO build, so mentioning dps is pointless. You need to read more carefully what I posted because you're arguing against something I didn't write. Also how are you calculating your source as +300 dps? Are you just multipying the avg. +damage by attack speed on the weapon? If you're factoring in IAS I think you're cheating a bit but okay. I've also never seen a wizard life on hit build that works, since getting maybe 1k HP back per second if you completely warp your gear around it isn't worth it when mobs hit for 20k+ EDIT: I was writing this before you posted your last reply. Sounds like you're not stacking attack speed at all nor crit, or if you do go crit it's very little because you don't have an offhand to support it. How much damage do you have that way? Even if you do more per arcane cost, it really limits your kiting capabilities and puts you at full arcane power really often on elites at 1.1 attack speed. Not to mention that your primary spell or hydra benefits from both crit and attack speed. Hydra definitely doesn't do more damage than AO, and I'm AP starved with astral presence on everything except really stupid combinations like mortar + invulnerable minions/shielding. I have 42k DPS but I feel like the number is rather useless since that mostly reflects my gear level. And yeah I go out of my way not to get +attack speed items, since like I said I'm already AP starved. If you look on the AH the price of the IAS amulets/rings with other decent affixes is stupid anyway. Hydra and arcane orb is very common, and hydra per arcane cost does more damage than arcane orb. Are you using blizzard arcane orb? In which case you don't do more damage really. Yeah but you can only have 1 hydra out at a time so I guess I don't understand what you mean... you want to optimize your damage per second, so you use venom hydra because it has the best damage/AP in the game but you can only have one so you need an AP sink that does a lot of damage which is what the AO is. AO doesn't benefit from attack speed unless you count kiting and I can kite just fine with 1.15 attacks/sec except with a couple of combinations of elite affixes. I actually tried to bump down to 1 attack/sec but I couldn't kite reliably so I'm back to 1.15. For clarification yes I am using the AO/hydra build maybe I said something ambiguous before. I understand that you gear very differently and I can see it working but it seemed like a pretty big investment to me to see if it would work or not and if after spending all my money I still didn't have enough crit I didn't want to be stuck. I'm using teleport+fracture and +12% movement boots. The teleport+fracture I feel would be necessary even with higher attack speed to get out of certain elite abilities, especially something like jailer+mortar. The fact that I can sometimes use it to nuke while my images are being targeted is just gravy. If you're not gearing for attack speed nor crit you're investing in the extra int for damage which is expensive in its own right. The only reason my gear is expensive is because it's simply more than I "need" when I'm at 55k dmg and 600 all resist. However, I started on a pretty modest budget of like 100-200k per armor piece. The thing is, when you get to a higher gear level you need to get another affix whether that be attack speed or crit otherwise you get capped out or overkill on the survival. And I'm using arcane orb hydra for damage so...?
Isn't specifying 4 affixes super expensive? For 2 mill I got an amulet with 200 int/77 vit/54 resist/41 physical resist. Just now I specified 80 int/60vit/12 IAS on amulets and the first one that comes up additionally with resist, crit, or armor is one for 3mil with 110 int/80 vit/13 IAS/4% crit. It seems like it's hard to find items for less than 3mil with 4 affixes that don't have awful numbers on the affixes.
I agree with you that the best set of gear is specifying 4 affixes but I'm not one to grind forever. I've spent like 6-8mil on my gear and feel going the 4 affix route would leave me with a much worse set.
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Attack speed affixes can be pretty expensive if you tack on 3 other good affixes like resist, vital, int. That's why I say crit and going 1 hand offhand is even cheaper because crit is massively underrated right now. The amulet you can get crit dmg (highly underrated and better than crit% in every way for amulets) for a lot less.
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I've recently hit 60, and been using the following build for act1:
venomhydra, 20ap blizzard, 20ap energy armor, diamondskin, 5illusions+illusionist skill, 20ap arcaneorb.
I have 161 ap with +10 and +11 from 1h and offhand respectively. I almost never get ap starved.
am I doing something wrong? this is the first time reading lvl 60 build discussions for me, i was surprised most people are using similar builds to mine.
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I have Illusionist for Astral Presence and the cheaper orb. I think this build is pretty much the standard right now with some little variations. Teleport is just the best defensive spell all around. You dont really need much else and mm is pretty nice to have. You need some gear though for this build imo.
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On June 02 2012 09:23 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Attack speed affixes can be pretty expensive if you tack on 3 other good affixes like resist, vital, int. That's why I say crit and going 1 hand offhand is even cheaper because crit is massively underrated right now. The amulet you can get crit dmg (highly underrated and better than crit% in every way for amulets) for a lot less.
I beg to differ :p
Crit/crit damage synergy is good, but good items with large amounts of both are pretty expensive. Picking a good item on a budget is about balance, you don't -need- top notch 3-4 affixes, but if you spread your stats around and get medium rolls on 4-5 affixes you can use, you can get good deals.
Attack speed is still the biggest contributor to good damage - I have at least 10% speed on every slot that allows me to have it (and a few legendaries that have speed on slots that normally don't allow it.)
PS - 2 handers, especially doom hammers, > 1 handers in almost every respect (for the same price)
My stats, just to show I'm not talking out of my ass:
![[image loading]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/kaiadam/gear-1.png)
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So. much. damage.
So you have like 50% IAS and +27% crit?
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I think more like 60% ias and 23% crit (I'm using the scoundrel, I'm trying to get my crit to a high enough % to count on it to at least give me one or two crits in 5 or so orbs - I know enchantress is higher damage.)
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I'm level 51, just spent an hour trying to beat a vampiric molten electrified rare. Killed his minions after 3 deaths but he just outregens my damage with disintegrate or blizzard/hydra. Fuck this joke game seriously.
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EPT
