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I have been following this thread with interest but didn't have time to read the last 10 pages or so, so forgive me if this has already been mentioned.
I really feel that disintegrate is totally ignored by most Wizards, noone ever talks about it but I have been using it with great success so far on inferno through act2.
The build: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#iRQOXS!aXb!bbYcaZ
It is easy to use and only requires 2 things from your gear, the first is a big, slow weapon, should be slower than 1.1 speed, 0.9 is best. The second thing is a wizard hat with some reduction in Disintegrate cost, I would recommend getting one with at least 3 reduction in cost, they are quite cheap.
If you have these 2 things, disintegrate basically becomes a free spell, and if you have a 0.9 speed weapon you dont even need astral presence so that frees it up for some other passive if you prefer. The rune on disintegrate is personal preference too, I use volatility to turn smaller mobs into bombs which wreck the elites, 400% weapon damage on a slow 2H is massive. However chaos nexus is OK and intensify is alos nice but means you need high survivability to get it charged up.
You can also kite well with this build since disintegrate cast time doesn't seem to be related to weapon speed, it comes on instantly even with a 0.9 speed weapon.
The right mouse spell I use as my utility spell, hydra for DPS but you can use blizzard to kite better or slow time for projectiles or frost nova for some more defense. You can even use familiar for a damage boost if you prefer.
The other spells are simple, DS and teleport for survivability, and DS lets you keep the beam on for that little longer. Energy armour for tankability, with prismatic armour to boost resistances since I have a lot of res gear (900 average res with prismatic) but you could swap it for FA if you have no res. Magic weapon is a no brainer.
Passives are pretty much whatever you like, I run with astral presence at the moment because I have a 1.1 speed weapon which drains mana a little too fast. So many passives are viable, just choose ones you like. I shy away from glass cannon though as I like being able to take some hits. Temporal flux us nice for some extra kiting.
The only issue I can see with this build is that if you haven't got the kind of survivability I have (which I accept is a little on the high side) then you cannot get the DPS off to make this work. You will be surprised at how well your fracture illusions can distract the mobs though, letting you get off a ton of damage.
Other notes are that you dont need any crit stats since disintegrate doesnt crit and the actual width of the beam is far greater than the graphic, its AOE is really insanely good, trash packs become a total joy when one blows up and takes the rest with him.
Really fun build and viable with my gear anyway, give it a try!
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While the above build sounds reasonable I really wonder what your items are. It seems to me you have very good ones overall and would do very well using any other of the viable builds, would love if you posted the stats on your items to show if it isn't actually your whole gear which makes it viable or not.
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On May 29 2012 17:55 Yttrasil wrote:
While the above build sounds reasonable I really wonder what your items are. It seems to me you have very good ones overall and would do very well using any other of the viable builds, would love if you posted the stats on your items to show if it isn't actually your whole gear which makes it viable or not.
This... the gear you need to be able to take "a few hits" on Act 2 inferno, while still having enough dps so that you don't need to kite for ages sounds pretty amazingly high to me.
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What do you guys think about stacking movement speed (12% boots and i've seen some legendarys on pants, chest and amulet).
From my point of view, we are sacrificing our dps for many kiting skills, because we want to run away from nasty elites. Why not boost movement speed, and put some moar dps in our skill bars?
Anyone tried it? It's quite big investment in gear, but i would definitely try that when it will be possible;P
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On May 29 2012 18:51 DnameIN wrote:
What do you guys think about stacking movement speed (12% boots and i've seen some legendarys on pants, chest and amulet).
From my point of view, we are sacrificing our dps for many kiting skills, because we want to run away from nasty elites. Why not boost movement speed, and put some moar dps in our skill bars?
Anyone tried it? It's quite big investment in gear, but i would definitely try that when it will be possible;P
I think most people do, 12% movement speed on boots is more or less a must IMO. Getting a unity ring (6-7% movement speed legendary ring) would be awesome as well.
Movement speed helps a LOT, especially vs stuff like mortar, desecrator etc.
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United States97276 Posts
On May 29 2012 18:51 DnameIN wrote:
What do you guys think about stacking movement speed (12% boots and i've seen some legendarys on pants, chest and amulet).
From my point of view, we are sacrificing our dps for many kiting skills, because we want to run away from nasty elites. Why not boost movement speed, and put some moar dps in our skill bars?
Anyone tried it? It's quite big investment in gear, but i would definitely try that when it will be possible;P
I have 12% movement speed on my boots and it's amazing against everything except inferno ponies and fast elites
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I've already given up a pretty sick pair of int/vit boots in order for a lesser pair with +12% mvspeed, totally worth it. I've been thinking of replacing other parts of my gear with legendaries/set items in order to aquire even more, but the ones I've found that I'd consider worth it are so damn expensive.
In theory I think it would be better though. Just imagine running around with +30% mvspeed or similar, kiting/dodging would be sooo easy.
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So i equipped like an 1100 dps 2 hander and I lost about 7k DPS. Was using a 844 DPS weapon with a 45% crit dmg gem, and my offhand has 50-210 dmg on it with crit and some int. Not quite sure how I'd have to itemize to get it even with my build. Sure, I could put on more attack speed but then I'd be giving up a lot of crit, it just wouldn't benefit me and I'd probably still have less DPS than with a 1 hand/offhand. Don't really quite get the merits of going 2 hand > attack speed over 1 hand offhand + crit. Can someone with really good gear tell me their stats with a 2 hander?
I'm at like 1.43 weapon speed, 45k DPS. Don't really remember much of the other stats, but 29% crit, 199% crit dmg as well. Sure, blue attack speed/int rings/amulets are pretty easy to get, but once you want to gear past that I think it's MUCH more expensive to go after rare attack speed items over crit. The whole incentive was that a 2 hander is cheaper right? But I think overall it leads to being more expensive if you want to stack decent attack speed later on. Hell, if I wanted a 2 hander that was equivalent in price to my offhand + mainhand it'd probably be around 1.2 mill and a 1250 DPS 2 hander with no modifiers, but I'm pretty sure it still doesn't come close to my DPS.
I'd also like to point out that "fast 1 handers" actually aren't that bad because you gain damage from your offhand which adds a lot more DPS the faster your weapon happens to be.
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On May 29 2012 19:18 Itsmedudeman wrote:
So i equipped like an 1100 dps 2 hander and I lost about 7k DPS. Was using a 844 DPS weapon with a 45% crit dmg gem, and my offhand has 50-210 dmg on it with crit and some int. Not quite sure how I'd have to itemize to get it even with my build. Sure, I could put on more attack speed but then I'd be giving up a lot of crit, it just wouldn't benefit me and I'd probably still have less DPS than with a 1 hand/offhand. Don't really quite get the merits of going 2 hand > attack speed over 1 hand offhand + crit. Can someone with really good gear tell me their stats with a 2 hander?
I'm at like 1.43 weapon speed, 45k DPS. Don't really remember much of the other stats, but 29% crit, 199% crit dmg as well. Sure, blue attack speed/int rings/amulets are pretty easy to get, but once you want to gear past that I think it's MUCH more expensive to go after rare attack speed items over crit. The whole incentive was that a 2 hander is cheaper right? But I think overall it leads to being more expensive if you want to stack decent attack speed later on. Hell, if I wanted a 2 hander that was equivalent in price to my offhand + mainhand it'd probably be around 1.2 mill and a 1250 DPS 2 hander with no modifiers, but I'm pretty sure it still doesn't come close to my DPS.
I'd also like to point out that "fast 1 handers" actually aren't that bad because you gain damage from your offhand which adds a lot more DPS the faster your weapon happens to be.
The big thing with some .9 speed 2-handers is that you get much more damage per cast. Hydra, Blizzard, and some other spells aren't affected by attack speed, so you want to maximize their damage potential.
Whether or not a 2h > 1h varies greatly with your source. I have a glass cannon source with +50-235 or so, 70 something intellect and 7 crit. My combined weapon damage is something like 500-1100 or so. I've seen some with top-end modifiers over 300, and low-end modifiers over 100.
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On May 29 2012 19:18 Itsmedudeman wrote:
So i equipped like an 1100 dps 2 hander and I lost about 7k DPS. Was using a 844 DPS weapon with a 45% crit dmg gem, and my offhand has 50-210 dmg on it with crit and some int. Not quite sure how I'd have to itemize to get it even with my build. Sure, I could put on more attack speed but then I'd be giving up a lot of crit, it just wouldn't benefit me and I'd probably still have less DPS than with a 1 hand/offhand. Don't really quite get the merits of going 2 hand > attack speed over 1 hand offhand + crit. Can someone with really good gear tell me their stats with a 2 hander?
I'm at like 1.43 weapon speed, 45k DPS. Don't really remember much of the other stats, but 29% crit, 199% crit dmg as well. Sure, blue attack speed/int rings/amulets are pretty easy to get, but once you want to gear past that I think it's MUCH more expensive to go after rare attack speed items over crit. The whole incentive was that a 2 hander is cheaper right? But I think overall it leads to being more expensive if you want to stack decent attack speed later on. Hell, if I wanted a 2 hander that was equivalent in price to my offhand + mainhand it'd probably be around 1.2 mill and a 1250 DPS 2 hander with no modifiers, but I'm pretty sure it still doesn't come close to my DPS.
I'd also like to point out that "fast 1 handers" actually aren't that bad because you gain damage from your offhand which adds a lot more DPS the faster your weapon happens to be.
Not sure if I qualify but,
2H - 1367 dps 0.9 speed. 59712 character sheet damage with force weapon.
Obliterated arcane orbs non-crits for about 90k average, sometimes going over 100k.
I had a 1h + offhand combo, 978 mainhand & a 100-350 offhand with 100 int. the offhand added the equivalent of about 350 dps, overall damage was just a bit lower than 2h. Maybe 57k? Can't quite remember. Main issue was I had time to pause and attack, but was always out of arcane power. 2.3 attack speed does that =\
I wish there was an even slower 2h weapon. My current 0.9 is modded to 1.4 after gear, and I still find when I turn around to cast on longish kites, I'm out of power again - I mainly use tap the source even, with astral presence.
I figure if you have any kind of build that uses arcane orb, either use a 2h or get high amounts of crit and crit->ap mod on offhand/wand/hat.
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On May 29 2012 19:18 Itsmedudeman wrote:
So i equipped like an 1100 dps 2 hander and I lost about 7k DPS. Was using a 844 DPS weapon with a 45% crit dmg gem, and my offhand has 50-210 dmg on it with crit and some int. Not quite sure how I'd have to itemize to get it even with my build. Sure, I could put on more attack speed but then I'd be giving up a lot of crit, it just wouldn't benefit me and I'd probably still have less DPS than with a 1 hand/offhand. Don't really quite get the merits of going 2 hand > attack speed over 1 hand offhand + crit. Can someone with really good gear tell me their stats with a 2 hander?
I'm at like 1.43 weapon speed, 45k DPS. Don't really remember much of the other stats, but 29% crit, 199% crit dmg as well. Sure, blue attack speed/int rings/amulets are pretty easy to get, but once you want to gear past that I think it's MUCH more expensive to go after rare attack speed items over crit. The whole incentive was that a 2 hander is cheaper right? But I think overall it leads to being more expensive if you want to stack decent attack speed later on. Hell, if I wanted a 2 hander that was equivalent in price to my offhand + mainhand it'd probably be around 1.2 mill and a 1250 DPS 2 hander with no modifiers, but I'm pretty sure it still doesn't come close to my DPS.
I'd also like to point out that "fast 1 handers" actually aren't that bad because you gain damage from your offhand which adds a lot more DPS the faster your weapon happens to be.
DPS isnt everything and is often overrated. If you mainly get damage out of kiting with AO, blizzard or use Desintegrate having igh Dmg per hit is more important than raw dps imho. Not only wont you use ur high Attack speed while running around, your Arcane cost per dmg done raise significantly with low dmg high attack speed. I was using Crossbows for quite some time with no +attack speed equipment at all, because they are slow with good dmg/stats, cheap and ranged (had no signature spell). On the other hand: Hydra and Signature Spells do gain profits from dps, so if your main dmg source is one of these, get more attack speed.
Edit:
@Phael: if you are still losing AP to fast, switch some of your attack speed gear with +crit chance/+crit dmg/more int gear (and get AP per crit on your hat). You will probably lose dps, but will eventually cast more Orbs that do higher dmg. Also always get +dmg on Rings/Amulet.
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On May 29 2012 18:51 DnameIN wrote:
What do you guys think about stacking movement speed (12% boots and i've seen some legendarys on pants, chest and amulet).
From my point of view, we are sacrificing our dps for many kiting skills, because we want to run away from nasty elites. Why not boost movement speed, and put some moar dps in our skill bars?
Anyone tried it? It's quite big investment in gear, but i would definitely try that when it will be possible;P
At the moment i have 25% movement speed (apparently 12+7+7=25), and i love it. It makes dodging stuff much easier, and kiting faster enemies viable. Unity is dirt-cheap, bad lacuni prowlers are, too. But if you want some good stats on them, they will cost a lot of money.
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I think movespeed caps at 25% if I'm not mistaken
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On May 29 2012 19:56 Slythape wrote:
I think movespeed caps at 25% if I'm not mistaken
As far as I know, 25% is the cap for your items, but if your class has any skills or passives that increases movement speed, those are added afterwards, and can thus enable you to surpass the cap. In our case, we could theoretically get a maximum of +50% mvspeed for 3 seconds with Scramble, then back to +25% again.
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Does anyone know how much hp/armor/fire resist that's needed to not get oneshot by Diablo's bomb? (The one where he shoots a fireball on you that explodes on impact and leaves a lethal circle of flames)
(Right now I feel that if I can only survive that, then he's pretty much dead. I can block them with Slow Time, which is how I deal with them, but it's hard to be so consistant with your reaction times for fifteen minutes straight. Shadow Clones are no problem, nor anything else as long as I don't screw up really. If I had better reflexes I could kill him here and now, but it'd be so much easier if I had just slightly more survivability. Gotten to early phase 3 as best in maybe 75 attempts, but I do feel like it's my gear that needs improvement, not me.)
My current build for killing him is: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#cRXgOS!aYU!YbaYYZ
^ I'd love to squeeze in Teleport somewhere, but I feel like the only spell I could possibly sacrifice is Force Weapon, and I really don't want to do that. Also unsure what's best out of Temporal Flux and Astral Presence.
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On May 29 2012 17:55 Yttrasil wrote:
While the above build sounds reasonable I really wonder what your items are. It seems to me you have very good ones overall and would do very well using any other of the viable builds, would love if you posted the stats on your items to show if it isn't actually your whole gear which makes it viable or not.
I have used this build since coming to inferno fresh from hell. I struggled in the beginning of course but it still worked as well as any other build with that gear.
Now that I have geared up with an emphasis on resistance I can sleepwalk through act 1 with no problem and find act 2 to be challenging without being rediculous.
Current stats are roughly: 28k HP, 19K DPS and 900 average resist (All buffed stats). I never spent any more than 200k on any item and have not got especially lucky with item drops. So nothing anyone couldn't manage with a little time spent on act 1.
I have tried all kinds of Arcane Orb builds and whatever other builds you care to think of and this is my favourite.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
900 average resists?
good lord, anyway you have no slow do you?that seems kind of a problem.
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On May 29 2012 20:28 Spleenster wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2012 17:55 Yttrasil wrote:
While the above build sounds reasonable I really wonder what your items are. It seems to me you have very good ones overall and would do very well using any other of the viable builds, would love if you posted the stats on your items to show if it isn't actually your whole gear which makes it viable or not. I have used this build since coming to inferno fresh from hell. I struggled in the beginning of course but it still worked as well as any other build with that gear. Now that I have geared up with an emphasis on resistance I can sleepwalk through act 1 with no problem and find act 2 to be challenging without being rediculous. Current stats are roughly: 28k HP, 19K DPS and 900 average resist (All buffed stats). I never spent any more than 200k on any item and have not got especially lucky with item drops. So nothing anyone couldn't manage with a little time spent on act 1. I have tried all kinds of Arcane Orb builds and whatever other builds you care to think of and this is my favourite.
...are you playing a Wizard or a Barb lol
Seriously though, that's a ludicrous amount of resist :o
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Why so much resist? 900 is less than 75% redux, while 350 is more than 50%.
Sure you'll live through 20 attacks in act1, or 8 attacks in act2, but then only 4 in act3 and you'll still die in 2-3 hits in act4.
Meanwhile, you're taking a minute to kite and clear white mobs with 500k hp, not to mention 5 mil hp elites.
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On May 29 2012 20:31 Kipsate wrote:
900 average resists?
good lord, anyway you have no slow do you?that seems kind of a problem.
You can assign any skill you like to right mouse button so you can take slow time or blizzard if you like some slow.
In addition you can take temporal flux to make your disintegrate slow.
As for the amount of resist, it is not super hard to get that much if you search for items with int and resist, people seem to undervalue that stat at the moment. It is not like I have any item which has resist and not much else. If you get 50 res in each slot, thats 500 res + ~150 from int *1.4 for prismatic armour thats 910 resist, this is not unreasonable in my opinion.
My main goal is a balanced build that does not rely on gimmicks or exploits or not hitting certain mobs or relying on never getting hit. If you gear all int you will die to fast mobs, if you rely on FA you will die to hard hitters or DOTs. Some survivability is great to have and even if you cannot just run in a laugh as everything around you dies while you tank hits, the difference between getting 2 hit and 5 or 6 hit is massive.
I can see that I may have to change gearing on harder acts since no amount of protection will save me but I want to at least try a resistance based gear build. The only other guy said he spent millions on getting 700 res and it didnt help but if you slowly gear up res like me, maybe I can get 1000 or more on harder acts and it might be awesome. Or it might not, but I want to try because getting 1 hit from an unavoidable attack is not fun.
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EPT
