EPTToo bad the stats suck.
Wizard - Builds/Discussion - Page 65
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Dfgj
Singapore5922 Posts
Too bad the stats suck. | ||
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Delvin
Finland141 Posts
On May 29 2012 08:10 red_b wrote: and yes, the current thinking is that hydra does damage based on DPS. if you care about the damage your blizzard does, Im a bit confused. who cares about the difference between crap and awful? I can confirm this based on my own testing (heard a lot of conflicting information so wanted to be sure). 48% attackspeed increased venom hydra damage by exactly 48%. And indeed did nothing to blizzard damage. In case someone was curious about arcane dynamo it's the other way round regarding these two skills. Does absolutely nothing with hydra (even though consumes stacks), but increases blizzard damage properly. | ||
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red_b
United States1267 Posts
On May 29 2012 08:35 Delvin wrote: In case someone was curious about arcane dynamo it's the other way round regarding these two skills. Does absolutely nothing with hydra (even though consumes stacks), but increases blizzard damage properly. wow, really? ok, time to switch dynamo for illusionist then. that's a shame, never noticed because I rarely leave hydra on screen lol. | ||
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BlueBird.
United States3889 Posts
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Skyro
United States1823 Posts
On May 29 2012 08:10 red_b wrote: attack speed has it's place in a hydra/blizzard build anyway. I use seeker with temporal flux and dynamo and since you can actually get attacks off while running with a decent attack speed, it allows you to do considerable extra damage. it's especially effective in groups where you can shoot all of your damage spells around corners and terrain. and yes, the current thinking is that hydra does damage based on DPS. if you care about the damage your blizzard does, Im a bit confused. who cares about the difference between crap and awful? Yes of course atk spd still has its place because it still allows for faster casting and thus easier kiting. You do want to avoid atk spd on a weapon though since weapons on the AH price by DPS, not by base weapon damage (which is what your spell damage is based on outside of exceptions like hydra). So if you want atk spd I would suggest getting it from other slots, like gloves. I kite just fine with my 0.9 spd 2h-mace w/ no atk spd items however, so it's up to preference really. And I don't know what you're talking about but blizzard does the majority of my damage. It has a huge AoE and with arcane dynamo I've seen ticks for like 10k (and I have less than 30k DPS). I believe ticks register every .5 secs so that's basically 20k dps in a huge AoE (with the increased radius rune). That's "awful" to you? The difference in blizzard damage from a fast 1h'er to a slow 2h'er is very, very significant. | ||
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Dfgj
Singapore5922 Posts
On May 29 2012 09:02 Skyro wrote: Yes of course atk spd still has its place because it still allows for faster casting and thus easier kiting. You do want to avoid atk spd on a weapon though since weapons on the AH price by DPS, not by base weapon damage (which is what your spell damage is based on outside of exceptions like hydra). So if you want atk spd I would suggest getting it from other slots, like gloves. I kite just fine with my 0.9 spd 2h-mace w/ no atk spd items however, so it's up to preference really. And I don't know what you're talking about but blizzard does the majority of my damage. It has a huge AoE and with arcane dynamo I've seen ticks for like 10k (and I have less than 30k DPS). I believe ticks register every .5 secs so that's basically 20k dps in a huge AoE (with the increased radius rune). That's "awful" to you? The difference in blizzard damage from a fast 1h'er to a slow 2h'er is very, very significant. You're using half your base AP, two skills, a passive, and time/loss of damage for dynamo chargeup to do 20k dps, which is still less than your standard attack dps, to an area. | ||
Firebolt145
Lalalaland34491 Posts
On May 29 2012 08:57 BlueBird. wrote: Does anyone have a multiplayer build they use? I really like the arcane orb slow build for solo play, but for multiplayer I find I can dump my arcane energy really fast and then stand around useless as there is a little bit less kiting, so I have a ton of "down time" should I just be putting on magic missile or something for multiplayer? For some bosses I might remove my 'utility' slot (Slow Time usually) for a spammable signature spell but in most cases nope, just don't have the slots for them. | ||
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Skyro
United States1823 Posts
On May 29 2012 09:07 Dfgj wrote: You're using half your base AP, two skills, a passive, and time/loss of damage for dynamo chargeup to do 20k dps, which is still less than your standard attack dps, to an area. And your point is what because it still works great. I can make the same argument for AO (requires a passive, doing nothing after AO spam, tiny radius, etc. etc.). Blizzard has many advantages over AO that make it completely worth it IMO. Doesn't require LoS, over twice the radius, high damage per cost, higher damage per cast, and a much better snare. And I never actually tested it but it certainly feels like the DPS difference vs AO spam vs. single-targets, isn't that much different at all. Think about it, blizzard is like casting a dot and then spamming a weaker single target spell (MM), compared to AO spam until capped by AP in which you have to use filler (most likely MM as well). The main strength of AO is if you get to the point gear-wise where you can stack crit and arcane power on crit and ditch your signature spell to free up a skill slot, which is huge. However IMO it is much much worse than blizzard kiting unless you are geared out the ass. | ||
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trinxified
Canada7774 Posts
And what's the 3rd passive other than glass cannon and astral presence? | ||
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Dfgj
Singapore5922 Posts
Obviously AO builds ditch the signature because you're never realistically going to have time to sit around throwing magic missiles in between kiting and throwing orbs. AO isn't a spam skill either for the same reason - if you could sit around throwing spells happily, we'd all just run Disintegrate-Intensify. On May 29 2012 09:50 trinxified wrote: So which rune do people have with Blizzard? Snowbound? I'm trying the Blizzard/Venom Hydra build. You guys use magic missile? Why are some using Seeker over Charged Blast? And what's the 3rd passive other than glass cannon and astral presence? Cold-Blooded, free +20% dmg. | ||
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NEOtheONE
United States2233 Posts
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Skyro
United States1823 Posts
On May 29 2012 09:54 Dfgj wrote: 'Works great' doesn't really say anything - we know blizzard/hydra works. Blizzard is still not on the same level damage-wise, which is the actual point I'm making. 210%/45AP vs 175%/20AP (does coldblooded and dynamo bring bliz from 210 to 472.5?), and you have to cast relatively weak MMs to charge up dynamo, taking up another skill slot. Obviously AO builds ditch the signature because you're never realistically going to have time to sit around throwing magic missiles in between kiting and throwing orbs. AO isn't a spam skill either for the same reason - if you could sit around throwing spells happily, we'd all just run Disintegrate-Intensify. Cold-Blooded, free +20% dmg. Yes and like I said from trying both builds out I don't believe there is that much of a damage difference, depending on the situation. When you say "210%/AP vs 175%/20AP" you are saying vs single target, vs mobs? Standing still? Kiting? It really depends on what you are doing, or more specifically, what you are farming because that's really the only thing people are doing. And I'd argue that in most situations blizzard will net you more damage overall. AO frees up a slot, at the cost of the intangibles of blizzard. Yes both are viable. Be happy there is actually more than one viable build in inferno. | ||
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34491 Posts
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Demonhunter04
1530 Posts
On May 29 2012 09:54 Dfgj wrote: 'Works great' doesn't really say anything - we know blizzard/hydra works. Blizzard is still not on the same level damage-wise, which is the actual point I'm making. 210%/45AP vs 175%/20AP (does coldblooded and dynamo bring bliz from 210 to 472.5?), and you have to cast relatively weak MMs to charge up dynamo, taking up another skill slot. Obviously AO builds ditch the signature because you're never realistically going to have time to sit around throwing magic missiles in between kiting and throwing orbs. AO isn't a spam skill either for the same reason - if you could sit around throwing spells happily, we'd all just run Disintegrate-Intensify. Cold-Blooded, free +20% dmg. What build would you use with arcane orb? | ||
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Dfgj
Singapore5922 Posts
On May 29 2012 10:59 Demonhunter04 wrote: What build would you use with arcane orb? Orb (Tap the Source), Venom Hydra, Force Armor, Diamond Skin, Magic Weapon, Utility (frost nova/teleport/time warp). | ||
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Juissi
Finland209 Posts
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trinxified
Canada7774 Posts
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Simberto
Germany11517 Posts
On May 29 2012 02:55 Skyro wrote: Interesting the affect on crit for hydra. I didn't use a naked wizard in my tests so it was hard for me to actually tell for hydra. Your test results for blizzard is quite interesting however. It sounds like blizzard's damage is calculated off the weapon's base damage DPS, which CAN be different than the one listed in the tooltip since attack speed on a weapon is factored into the displayed DPS. This may warrant testing to see if one should avoid attack speed on weapons for blizzard users. However my tests for blizzard was very funky. There was a range of numbers that blizzard did in my tests, but never enough to make me believe it was affected by crit. Was the difference with crit gear on very noticeable? I ask because the range of damage of my blizzard ticks was never wide enough to make me believe crits were actually occurring (i.e. my crit damage was 100%, but the high end range was less than double the low end range). Upon further though there may be 2 things at play here: 1) Crit % damage modifiers work differently with blizzard 2) Or, more likely, it has something to do with how damage is displayed in D3, In D3, "ticks" of damage are just sort of "updates" on the damage done per second, but damage isn't actually done to monsters under blizzard (or any dot for that matter) per second. For a completely made up example, if damage was actually done every .4 seconds, some "ticks" will register 2 damage points and others 3. edit: Actually testing with crit dmg modifiers would be a good test if you still have your gear Simberto, to see its affect on hydra and blizzard. If you get your crit dmg modifier % high it would be much easier its effect, if any. If it doesn't have any effect then even if crit does indeed work it probably isn't worth it from a item budget standpoint as crit dmg modifiers are really what make crit comparable DPS-wise to other damage stats. double edit: I just tested blizzard again and our tests are not jiving with each other. 2h'ers with the same DPS are doing significantly more DPS thatn similar DPS 1h'ers. It's not even close. I'm not sure how your tests are showing otherwise. You are correct, i have no idea what i did there yesterday. I was pretty tired, and it was probably something stupid. Blizzard scales with weapon speed exactly as you said. Slower weapons do far more damage then faster ones. I am redoing the other tests now to see if i did something really stupid there, too. The problem with Crit damage/crit chance tests is that you need gear with both stats on it, ideally a large amount to make the results easy to see. And that stuff is not dirt cheap like pure crit, but i will see if i can find something. I don't want to use my normal gear, since i want 0 int gear to not have to factor in another thing. | ||
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Demonhunter04
1530 Posts
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Skyro
United States1823 Posts
On May 29 2012 11:19 trinxified wrote: So which rune with blizzard? snowbound (20 ap) or stark winter (22 yards) or unrelenting storm (260% dmg/sec)? Stark winter. You don't really have problems with AP with blizzard/hydra/MM builds. Unrelenting storm only extends the duration, it still does the same dmg/sec. Seeing as how most mobs will walk through a normal blizzard before it ends radius > duration. | ||
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