|
On June 03 2012 23:07 starfries wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2012 14:03 Crosswind wrote:
A note - devouring and hungering do literally exactly the same DPS. =)
-Cross Still, I'd like to see math rather than an unfounded statement. Or maybe I'll do it myself when I'm not so tired...
The math for the first is obvious - geometric progression, 230% damage expected.
The math for the second is less obvious, so I did it by simulation because...lazy.
MATLAB Code:
+ Show Spoiler +
%Piercing
clc; clear;
nTrials = 100000;
for i=1:nTrials
basedamage = 115;
piercechance = .5;
totaldamage(i) = 0;
while 1
totaldamage(i) = totaldamage(i) + basedamage;
if rand(1)>piercechance %Didn't pierce
break;
end
end
end
disp(['Mean Total Damage is ', num2str(mean(totaldamage))])
%+70% thingy
clear;
nTrials = 100000;
for i=1:nTrials
basedamage = 115;
piercechance = .5;
totaldamage(i) = 0;
while 1
totaldamage(i) = totaldamage(i) + basedamage;
if rand(1)>piercechance %Didn't pierce
break;
else
basedamage = basedamage + .7;
end
end
end
disp(['Mean Total Damage is ', num2str(mean(totaldamage))])
Results:
Mean Total Damage is 229.8065 <---Piercing
Mean Total Damage is 231.4088 <---Hungering
So, it might be like 1.5% higher damage? Preeettty much identical.
-Cross
|
You aren't factoring in crits and sharpshooter.
On June 04 2012 01:32 Chairman Ray wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2012 01:25 SagaZ wrote:
Hey guys, I just reached act1on inferno, bought a nice bow on the AH cause everyone was telling me to do so and made my way trought abusing smoke screen.
I reached the spider cave (god i hate this place) and found a golden small spider in it with horde reflect damage, extra hp and some other things i don't remember. Thing is, i don't think they had the fast attribute but still were insainly quick and with the reflect damage i found myself just killing myself. I really felt like i had nothing and just closed diablo3...
Any one of you got tips to deal with reflect damage mobs? Also does it happen to you to get vs a monster with a bad combination of attributes and just restart the quest? invulnerable minion, reflect damage, fast, mortar bs make it really hard to progress sometimes.. Smokescreen blocks reflect damage. What I do is keep running around til smokescreen is up, then dps as much as I can while smokescreened. Repeat.
Spike trap is awesome for this. Put the traps against a wall or in a choke so they all go off at once and ss through the damage. With sharpshooter scatter (for me) deals 3 100k crits so that covers a lot of what you need to bring the mobs down if they're champions (the elites may be a little tougher, but you can handle the minions like this at least).
|
On June 04 2012 03:25 Logo wrote:
You aren't factoring in crits and sharpshooter.
If you're talking to me, I don't super care about burst damage (sharpshooter), only steady-state. And crits affect all that damage equally. They don't affect the mean of builds, just the variance. If you like low-variance, go with piercing. If you like high variance, go with hungering.
The guy who said "Lots of little damage is better because you waste less", a page ago, is of course correct. That is why I prefer piercing.
-Cross (It is, of course, ever the prerogative of dudes on the internet to complain about models. Happily, if you disagree with this model, all you need do is make your own. It won't change the basic fact that the two runes have virtually identical damage.)
|
hey guys, im a lowly level 60 demon hunter with only 27k dps. i can barely solo butcher (obv can't go into act 2 quite yet..), whats the best way to progress my gear and get more dmg? I don't want to be a complete glass cannon like most of you are, I want to have at least some survivability. What kind of stats should I be going for on each piece of equipment, etc? I've got around 2m atm via sniping underpriced items on AH but I don't plan on spending it right now, I'll probably save up for better gear. Thanks.
|
On June 04 2012 03:35 johnnywup wrote:
hey guys, im a lowly level 60 demon hunter with only 27k dps. i can barely solo butcher (obv can't go into act 2 quite yet..), whats the best way to progress my gear and get more dmg? I don't want to be a complete glass cannon like most of you are, I want to have at least some survivability. What kind of stats should I be going for on each piece of equipment, etc? I've got around 2m atm via sniping underpriced items on AH but I don't plan on spending it right now, I'll probably save up for better gear. Thanks.
27k DPS? I beat Act 2 with 16k and the rest of the game with 26k. You can definitely do Act 2, especially if you're tanky enough to survive a few hits.
|
Are there many demon hunters using 1h bows for inferno? I'm middling between Act 1/2 and getting close to the point to where I can afford a good weapon upgrade. The +Max Discipline on 1h bows is very tempting.
I ask because it seems like the popular build right now is the nether tentacles/xbow for big burst and crit damage.
|
Oh man I fucking hate vortex and plague as DH. Urggggggggggggggg, the game is so stupid when you can't do anything against it, no skill no fucking thing to prevent it. No matter how u try it, Blizz u need to reduce the cool down of the damn health potion seriously.
|
On June 04 2012 03:35 johnnywup wrote:
hey guys, im a lowly level 60 demon hunter with only 27k dps. i can barely solo butcher (obv can't go into act 2 quite yet..), whats the best way to progress my gear and get more dmg? I don't want to be a complete glass cannon like most of you are, I want to have at least some survivability. What kind of stats should I be going for on each piece of equipment, etc? I've got around 2m atm via sniping underpriced items on AH but I don't plan on spending it right now, I'll probably save up for better gear. Thanks.
27k dps should be enough for Butcher. The key is that he will only use his chains after two other attacks or if you are out of his range for too long.
You should be able to snag a ~1k damage xbow with a socket for ~1.5m with some patience. Put the highest Emerald you have in it. Focus the rest on Dex/Aspd/Crit Dmg. Crit Chance is usually a luxury more than anything.
Survivability is the usual Armor/Vit/Int/Resists. Keep in mind this will be a significant investment compared to just getting damage stats, and you shouldn't sacrifice too much damage as a DH. I sit at 30k hp, 35k dps, 2.4k armor and 250 resists. I'm able to kill Reflect Damage Elites without too much effort. Stuff like Mortar doesn't OHKO me, I have some time to react before Plague kills me, SPEARMEN DONT ONE SHOT ME, etc...
|
On June 04 2012 03:22 Crosswind wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2012 23:07 starfries wrote:On June 03 2012 14:03 Crosswind wrote:
A note - devouring and hungering do literally exactly the same DPS. =)
-Cross Still, I'd like to see math rather than an unfounded statement. Or maybe I'll do it myself when I'm not so tired... The math for the first is obvious - geometric progression, 230% damage expected. The math for the second is less obvious, so I did it by simulation because...lazy. MATLAB Code: + Show Spoiler +
%Piercing
clc; clear;
nTrials = 100000;
for i=1:nTrials
basedamage = 115;
piercechance = .5;
totaldamage(i) = 0;
while 1
totaldamage(i) = totaldamage(i) + basedamage;
if rand(1)>piercechance %Didn't pierce
break;
end
end
end
disp(['Mean Total Damage is ', num2str(mean(totaldamage))])
%+70% thingy
clear;
nTrials = 100000;
for i=1:nTrials
basedamage = 115;
piercechance = .5;
totaldamage(i) = 0;
while 1
totaldamage(i) = totaldamage(i) + basedamage;
if rand(1)>piercechance %Didn't pierce
break;
else
basedamage = basedamage + .7;
end
end
end
disp(['Mean Total Damage is ', num2str(mean(totaldamage))])
Results: Mean Total Damage is 229.8065 <---Piercing Mean Total Damage is 231.4088 <---Hungering So, it might be like 1.5% higher damage? Preeettty much identical. -Cross
Thanks 
edit: erm you have .5 as the pierce chance for the 70% one but I'm guessing you fixed it when you ran it for the actual numbers
edit2: no wait, it's much lower with .35 pierce chance
edit: oh, you're only adding 0.7 to the damage rather than 0.7*the base damage
+ Show Spoiler +clc; clear;
nterms = 1000;
basedamage = 115
% 50% pierce
damage = 0;
chance = 1;
hitdamage = basedamage;
for i=1:nterms
damage = damage + chance * hitdamage;
chance = chance * 0.5;
end
disp(['Expected damage for 50% pierce:', num2str(damage)])
% 70% arrow thing
damage = 0;
chance = 1;
hitdamage = basedamage;
for i=1:nterms
damage = damage + chance * hitdamage;
chance = chance * 0.35;
hitdamage = hitdamage+0.7*basedamage;
end
disp(['Expected damage for 70% arrow thing:', num2str(damage)])
gives me 230% damage on the 50% pierce and about 244% damage on the 70% damage arrow.
|
How about this one
+ Show Spoiler +#include <stdio.h>
#include <stdlib.h>
#include <time.h>
int main() {
int shots = 200000;
double piercechance = 0.35f;
double piercebonus = 1.70f;
double totaldamage = 0.0f;
srand( time(0) );
for (int i = 0; i < shots; ++i) {
double shotdamage = 0.0f;
double lasthitdamage = 1.0f;
while (1) {
shotdamage += lasthitdamage;
double rnd = (double) rand() / RAND_MAX;
if (rnd > piercechance) break;
lasthitdamage *= piercebonus;
}
totaldamage += shotdamage;
}
printf("Average dmg: %f\n", totaldamage/shots);
return 0;
}
Gives me about 2.46 which is relative to a 115% base hit, so 283% weapon damage. Maybe someone should test if it is actually 1.7^n in game or just 1+0.7*n for the nth bounce hit (n=0 for the first hit)
edit: oh yeah also need to know whether it's 115% + 70% or 115% * 1.70. Plan: low level bow with +minimum damage gear to test without randomness.
edit2: ok tested and calculations don't go like this, see a couple posts below
|
On June 04 2012 05:14 Teddyman wrote:
edit: oh yeah also need to know whether it's 115% + 70% or 115% * 1.70. Plan: low level bow with +minimum damage gear to test without randomness.
Ah, I didn't think about that, but it makes sense that it's 70% of the weapon damage, not 70% of the base damage. That makes a pretty big difference. With that, it's 235% for devouring arrow (if you do it additively, not geometrically).
|
OK I bought a 300 gold crossbow with 7-7 damage and tested. It looks like the damage goes as follows:
Hit 1: 115%
Hit 2: 115% * 1.7 = 195.5%
Hit 3: 115% * 2.4 = 276.0%
Hit 4: 115% * 3.1 = 356.5%
... etc
This would put 50% pierce rune at 230% weapon damage and 70% pierce damage increase rune at 243% WD. In practice the arrow will disappear before more than a couple of pierces will happen but 70% damage comes out ahead anyway.
TLDR of the whole thing: Devouring Arrow does about 6% more damage than Puncturing Arrow in practice.
|
Thanks for the test, Teddy. I figured that it was 1.16 + .7
huh.
-Cross
|
On June 04 2012 02:15 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2012 01:53 Blasterion wrote:
I think the worst could be Horde + Immune Minions I've never actually seen that one though. They might have given us a break.
horde + immune + mortar + extra health would be nasty aswell. ^^
|
On June 04 2012 03:41 ZAiNs wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2012 03:35 johnnywup wrote:
hey guys, im a lowly level 60 demon hunter with only 27k dps. i can barely solo butcher (obv can't go into act 2 quite yet..), whats the best way to progress my gear and get more dmg? I don't want to be a complete glass cannon like most of you are, I want to have at least some survivability. What kind of stats should I be going for on each piece of equipment, etc? I've got around 2m atm via sniping underpriced items on AH but I don't plan on spending it right now, I'll probably save up for better gear. Thanks. 27k DPS? I beat Act 2 with 16k and the rest of the game with 26k. You can definitely do Act 2, especially if you're tanky enough to survive a few hits.
mmm ive got 33k -ish hp but barely any resists, so i cant survive much...but i guess its enough if i kite a ton
On June 04 2012 04:19 Yiruru wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2012 03:35 johnnywup wrote:
hey guys, im a lowly level 60 demon hunter with only 27k dps. i can barely solo butcher (obv can't go into act 2 quite yet..), whats the best way to progress my gear and get more dmg? I don't want to be a complete glass cannon like most of you are, I want to have at least some survivability. What kind of stats should I be going for on each piece of equipment, etc? I've got around 2m atm via sniping underpriced items on AH but I don't plan on spending it right now, I'll probably save up for better gear. Thanks. 27k dps should be enough for Butcher. The key is that he will only use his chains after two other attacks or if you are out of his range for too long. You should be able to snag a ~1k damage xbow with a socket for ~1.5m with some patience. Put the highest Emerald you have in it. Focus the rest on Dex/Aspd/Crit Dmg. Crit Chance is usually a luxury more than anything. Survivability is the usual Armor/Vit/Int/Resists. Keep in mind this will be a significant investment compared to just getting damage stats, and you shouldn't sacrifice too much damage as a DH. I sit at 30k hp, 35k dps, 2.4k armor and 250 resists. I'm able to kill Reflect Damage Elites without too much effort. Stuff like Mortar doesn't OHKO me, I have some time to react before Plague kills me, SPEARMEN DONT ONE SHOT ME, etc...
not really sure when he does chains is the problem. otherwise i can kill him pretty easily. he's not too tough, the chains are usually the problem. also fire if it takes too long.
hm, should i waste the 1.5m on the xbow? my current bow is 911ish damage. no socket though. and emerald? not ruby?
|
On June 04 2012 07:04 johnnywup wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2012 03:41 ZAiNs wrote:On June 04 2012 03:35 johnnywup wrote:
hey guys, im a lowly level 60 demon hunter with only 27k dps. i can barely solo butcher (obv can't go into act 2 quite yet..), whats the best way to progress my gear and get more dmg? I don't want to be a complete glass cannon like most of you are, I want to have at least some survivability. What kind of stats should I be going for on each piece of equipment, etc? I've got around 2m atm via sniping underpriced items on AH but I don't plan on spending it right now, I'll probably save up for better gear. Thanks. 27k DPS? I beat Act 2 with 16k and the rest of the game with 26k. You can definitely do Act 2, especially if you're tanky enough to survive a few hits. mmm ive got 33k -ish hp but barely any resists, so i cant survive much...but i guess its enough if i kite a ton Show nested quote +On June 04 2012 04:19 Yiruru wrote:On June 04 2012 03:35 johnnywup wrote:
hey guys, im a lowly level 60 demon hunter with only 27k dps. i can barely solo butcher (obv can't go into act 2 quite yet..), whats the best way to progress my gear and get more dmg? I don't want to be a complete glass cannon like most of you are, I want to have at least some survivability. What kind of stats should I be going for on each piece of equipment, etc? I've got around 2m atm via sniping underpriced items on AH but I don't plan on spending it right now, I'll probably save up for better gear. Thanks. 27k dps should be enough for Butcher. The key is that he will only use his chains after two other attacks or if you are out of his range for too long. You should be able to snag a ~1k damage xbow with a socket for ~1.5m with some patience. Put the highest Emerald you have in it. Focus the rest on Dex/Aspd/Crit Dmg. Crit Chance is usually a luxury more than anything. Survivability is the usual Armor/Vit/Int/Resists. Keep in mind this will be a significant investment compared to just getting damage stats, and you shouldn't sacrifice too much damage as a DH. I sit at 30k hp, 35k dps, 2.4k armor and 250 resists. I'm able to kill Reflect Damage Elites without too much effort. Stuff like Mortar doesn't OHKO me, I have some time to react before Plague kills me, SPEARMEN DONT ONE SHOT ME, etc... not really sure when he does chains is the problem. otherwise i can kill him pretty easily. he's not too tough, the chains are usually the problem. also fire if it takes too long. hm, should i waste the 1.5m on the xbow? my current bow is 911ish damage. no socket though. and emerald? not ruby?
Ruby only adds a tiny fraction to the overall damage, whereas an emerald will be better even in the 600 DPSish range. 45% Crit damage is better unless your crit chance is so horrendous as to be worth vomiting.
On a 615 DPS bow, 45% crit damage is almost 1k more DPS than a ruby, at relatively low crit rates.
|
You shouldn't hit the enrage timer with your kind of dps. I got the under 2 minutes achievement while I still had under 20k dps, just make sure you spam tentacles at him whenever you have an opening.
As for the chains, I think 33k hp should allow you to tank one. If you can't, then you probably need to up your armor.
In any case, the idea is to SS the chains, which I'm sure you know. The problem is that the animation (raises his hand) is pretty fast and with latency it can be hard, so I would just SS anything suspicious without trying to think whether it's a hook or a chain. I would die a lot because I didn't want to "waste" an SS on a hook, but spending 14 discipline is better than dying and you don't really run out before he dies anyways.
Also you can stay really far back when he's due for a chains, and it won't reach you. I've yet to see him use it twice in a row so you should be safe to engage after baiting it out. Oh and you can run in, bait him into using his melee attack, then back up and unload as he does it.
|
On June 04 2012 07:04 johnnywup wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2012 03:41 ZAiNs wrote:On June 04 2012 03:35 johnnywup wrote:
hey guys, im a lowly level 60 demon hunter with only 27k dps. i can barely solo butcher (obv can't go into act 2 quite yet..), whats the best way to progress my gear and get more dmg? I don't want to be a complete glass cannon like most of you are, I want to have at least some survivability. What kind of stats should I be going for on each piece of equipment, etc? I've got around 2m atm via sniping underpriced items on AH but I don't plan on spending it right now, I'll probably save up for better gear. Thanks. 27k DPS? I beat Act 2 with 16k and the rest of the game with 26k. You can definitely do Act 2, especially if you're tanky enough to survive a few hits. mmm ive got 33k -ish hp but barely any resists, so i cant survive much...but i guess its enough if i kite a ton Show nested quote +On June 04 2012 04:19 Yiruru wrote:On June 04 2012 03:35 johnnywup wrote:
hey guys, im a lowly level 60 demon hunter with only 27k dps. i can barely solo butcher (obv can't go into act 2 quite yet..), whats the best way to progress my gear and get more dmg? I don't want to be a complete glass cannon like most of you are, I want to have at least some survivability. What kind of stats should I be going for on each piece of equipment, etc? I've got around 2m atm via sniping underpriced items on AH but I don't plan on spending it right now, I'll probably save up for better gear. Thanks. 27k dps should be enough for Butcher. The key is that he will only use his chains after two other attacks or if you are out of his range for too long. You should be able to snag a ~1k damage xbow with a socket for ~1.5m with some patience. Put the highest Emerald you have in it. Focus the rest on Dex/Aspd/Crit Dmg. Crit Chance is usually a luxury more than anything. Survivability is the usual Armor/Vit/Int/Resists. Keep in mind this will be a significant investment compared to just getting damage stats, and you shouldn't sacrifice too much damage as a DH. I sit at 30k hp, 35k dps, 2.4k armor and 250 resists. I'm able to kill Reflect Damage Elites without too much effort. Stuff like Mortar doesn't OHKO me, I have some time to react before Plague kills me, SPEARMEN DONT ONE SHOT ME, etc... not really sure when he does chains is the problem. otherwise i can kill him pretty easily. he's not too tough, the chains are usually the problem. also fire if it takes too long. hm, should i waste the 1.5m on the xbow? my current bow is 911ish damage. no socket though. and emerald? not ruby?
High level rubies are great on low level characters.
Emeralds scale much better with your equip tho I'd say, you can get 60 or 70% extra crit damage, whereas the rubies only give you like 30-40 damage (or something) on weapons that already have upwards of 800dps anyway.
|
On June 04 2012 07:13 starfries wrote:
You shouldn't hit the enrage timer with your kind of dps. I got the under 2 minutes achievement while I still had under 20k dps, just make sure you spam tentacles at him whenever you have an opening.
As for the chains, I think 33k hp should allow you to tank one. If you can't, then you probably need to up your armor.
In any case, the idea is to SS the chains, which I'm sure you know. The problem is that the animation (raises his hand) is pretty fast and with latency it can be hard, so I would just SS anything suspicious without trying to think whether it's a hook or a chain. I would die a lot because I didn't want to "waste" an SS on a hook, but spending 14 discipline is better than dying and you don't really run out before he dies anyways.
Also you can stay really far back when he's due for a chains, and it won't reach you. I've yet to see him use it twice in a row so you should be safe to engage after baiting it out. Oh and you can run in, bait him into using his melee attack, then back up and unload as he does it.
yes i can tank one chain. but im 1hko by hook (but i can usually avoid that). and what do you mean tentacle? I use the build in the OP (Verators Build).
also nice to know about the crit dmg! thanks.
|
On June 04 2012 07:40 johnnywup wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2012 07:13 starfries wrote:
You shouldn't hit the enrage timer with your kind of dps. I got the under 2 minutes achievement while I still had under 20k dps, just make sure you spam tentacles at him whenever you have an opening.
As for the chains, I think 33k hp should allow you to tank one. If you can't, then you probably need to up your armor.
In any case, the idea is to SS the chains, which I'm sure you know. The problem is that the animation (raises his hand) is pretty fast and with latency it can be hard, so I would just SS anything suspicious without trying to think whether it's a hook or a chain. I would die a lot because I didn't want to "waste" an SS on a hook, but spending 14 discipline is better than dying and you don't really run out before he dies anyways.
Also you can stay really far back when he's due for a chains, and it won't reach you. I've yet to see him use it twice in a row so you should be safe to engage after baiting it out. Oh and you can run in, bait him into using his melee attack, then back up and unload as he does it. yes i can tank one chain. but im 1hko by hook (but i can usually avoid that). and what do you mean tentacle? I use the build in the OP (Verators Build). also nice to know about the crit dmg! thanks.
Tentacles is Elemental Arrow > Nether Tentacles, your main skill for bosses. If you can tank one chain, you should be fine, just run to the healing well. How are you dying? You can SS to escape after he grabs you if you somehow get hooked, but you really shouldn't ever get hit.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
