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On February 22 2011 11:07 mango_destroyer wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 11:06 ReachTheSky wrote:
This is a north american starleague.......can't we just keep this to north americans? >< If it was purely north americans the quality of the competition would be much lower. I think most starcraft fans want to see the best of the best like NASL has been hyping.
I dont think the competition would be MUCH lower. No GSL though but yeah instead of having the mindset of korea> rest of the world in sc2 we need 2 make it a global even thing. So excluding everything but north americans would be the dumbest move they could do
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On February 22 2011 11:09 Brad wrote:
As much as i would love Koreans to be fully represented in NASL, we have to be realistic. It's like flooding the American Soccer League with European players (or the European basketball league with NBA players.). Not every league has to be fully international, that's what the Olympics and World Cup is for.
Well the problem is we don't really have the "olympics" of Starcraft 2, Korea has GSL, US has NASL. Europe has a few small tournies. I guess there is IEM but i would love to have a fully international league.
But it really seems with all this springing up we are definetely headed towards being able to crown a true world champion, and i'm sure a league will come up to support that.
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so guys for when a NASTL north american starcraft team league xP
i would love to see team leagues in all continents and then a tournament with all the the winner teams of each continent now that would be Epic
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On February 22 2011 11:03 Oxb wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 10:49 ithree wrote:On February 22 2011 10:42 Karthane wrote:
I'm still a little baffled. Where the hell are they getting 400,000 dollars?? Theres been no mention of sponsors so all thats left is the Paid HD stream and they even talk about making money in the interview so I'm not sure what their expecting.. Can't imagine Justin.tv putting money into ontop of providing the stream and laying fiber, but maybe. Still don't understand where incontrol is, I mean he's already closed a thread (about Huks Twitter) so not he's off the grid, the stream was (mostly) pre-recorded so theres no big stress to relieve, there isnt even an official thread so everyone's all of the place. Anyway thanks motbob ofr making something semi-offical  Blizzard is sponsoring/insured the money. No mention of sponsors yet*, Some buisiness guy is basically backing this since he saw a 'nice buisiness'. If you want to start a store you get a good buisiness plan and go to a bank, there's ur money. Justin.tv had 20k viewers during the announcement so say about 1/4 of that will pay for a season ticket. 5k *20$ = 100.000 :o prize money reimbursed. Looking how the votes are running and how hyped this all is there will definitely be some sponsors, intel and razer are always/everywhere sponsoring e-sport events. If the first weeks show promising I think sponsors will come in for the lans. Then there's a bunch of people who are going to watch the free stream, what about you pop an add or 2 between the games, 10k viewers on the free streams, 0.02$ add/viewers = 200$ per advertisement. they are talking about 3hours of games, so I guess that's like 5 or 6games a night? That's another 1000$ profit from advertisements alone, every night. Yes these are very speculative number but looking just at season tickets (if it takes off a bit decently) and advertisements they already got a huge sum covered, and then there is sponsorship. So it's definitely possible to make this very proffitable.
Hearing that that was 20k people on JTV makes me very happy because I had next to no lag. I only had a couple of spots where I got hit and my Internet sucks a lot. Being able to choose quality on top of the excellent attention JTV is giving all of this gives me high hopes for stability in the future. It's honestly hard for me to choose a non-JTV stream now because I know that I'll be stuck with a higher quality one that will stutter for me (e.g., the iCCup.TV one right now that is putting Startale on new ICCup maps -- fairly unwatchable for me).
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On February 22 2011 10:36 FeeL_ThE_RusH wrote:I'd love to see Diggity & Moletrap get in on the casting action. Though it's only a dream, breaking Cholera and Klazart out of retirement would be freakin glorious too 
I miss Cholera so much <3
OP is sooo important, thanks so much for the information, motbob!
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On February 22 2011 11:13 Karthane wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 11:09 Brad wrote:
As much as i would love Koreans to be fully represented in NASL, we have to be realistic. It's like flooding the American Soccer League with European players (or the European basketball league with NBA players.). Not every league has to be fully international, that's what the Olympics and World Cup is for. Well the problem is we don't really have the "olympics" of Starcraft 2, Korea has GSL, US has NASL. Europe has a few small tournies. I guess there is IEM but i would love to have a fully international league. But it really seems with all this springing up we are definetely headed towards being able to crown a true world champion, and i'm sure a league will come up to support that.
Yeah, I agree. I want that as much as anyone. You could probably fill 30+ spots with just Koreans based on skill level, but does that help eSports in the West? I don't think it would. It's nice to have alot of Western talent eventhough the skill level won't be as high to start, but it will grow exponentially because of the fierce competition.
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I hope iNcontroL brings klazart on for some commentary.
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On February 22 2011 10:34 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I don't get the maximum 5 players per team thing wouldn't mind hearing more on it. I can think of maybe 2-3 teams who can line up 6 players that can all make a deep run in such a tournament. This whole rule seems to have a rather small impact on the tournament but it badly hurts a few individual players, and I don't see the gain in removing 2 world class players from your tournament because they share a team tag with 5 others. If they're good enough they're good enough. Probably missing something about this rule but can't figure out what. Can't wait for additional information to come out. Editing this in: On February 22 2011 10:44 Nevy wrote:
They're making it so people from the same team won't face each other early on. That might be part of the reason why.
I assume they try to avoid team battles to do the teams a favor. Excluding one of the players is not doing any team a favor so it's hard to imagine that being the reason. Maybe it's that players of a single team often have similar fans and you want to reach out to the various groups of fans. If there were a couple teams each dominating the scene with a lineup of 10 players then maybe that would lead to less viewers. Realistically however that rule will benefit the tournament way too sporadically compared to the harm it causes.
Yeah, maybe what is being said is teams can nominate up to 5 players and if the team have more than 5 players wanting a spot the excluded player could qualify on their own through the open tournament, of course i'm just speculating here based on the following quote:
"There will also be an open tournament that anyone can enter to determine who advances to one of the spots in the final sixteen."
edit. added spoiler
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As mentioned by Nazgul, 5 players per team seems like an odd format, if we take for example Team Liquid, they have a stacked team of tremendous players, so will someone like Haypro who is clearly a great player but is often overshadowed by his monstrous teammates gonna have to compete for the right to be one of the 5? Seems kinda lame since we dont get to see some of these players in the first place so they don't have the opportunity to shine as much.
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On February 22 2011 10:27 motbob wrote:Show nested quote +...every player is supposed to be backed by a $250 refundable fee. Essentially what it is, is every time they're rude or they're late or any kind of unforeseeable problems occur they'll be penalized $25 or $50 and that comes out of the refundable fee of course. But most people, hopefully all, will be completely and immaculately fine and will get that $250 back. But the idea is to make them accountable.
I predict hilarity on this account. Even ignoring the fact that a teammate of IdrA is the arbiter of BM, the minute someone does or does not get financially penalized for something, there'll be a 50 page flamewar (which may be the point).
Would HuK be fined for being "such a little idiot" last night? Would Losira and Bomber get fined for the greatest game of all time? If IdrA loses to a strategy, and then publically declares it imbalanced, is that a fine for demeaning his opponent's win?
Yes OR no answers will lead to massive flamewars.
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I think those of you who are posting about "anyone" not being able to make it into the tournament are kind of in the wrong. "Anyone" can join smaller tournaments and work their way up through the ranks, fame, etc. This is the fucking NA STAR League. Not the "random kid from ladder" league.
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I can't wait to start watching.
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On February 22 2011 11:08 DyEnasTy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 11:03 orotoss wrote:
I don't see why it's not just an open tournament with qualifiers. If the pros we love are really that good, then they will make it to the top. If there are some unknowns out there who could crush idra and huk, well I wanna watch those guys. The popularity system goes against everything that Starcraft is about. This is a COMPETITIVE e-sport, not a popularity contest.
I understand that they want the games to be entertaining, but people are impressed by the skills of the players, not their names. People wanna watch Jinro because he is awesome at Starcraft 2, and we would be even more entertained by someone who is better. I have a problem with what you wrote. Of course I only want to see top level play. I personally like this system because it keeps cheesy 1 build gimmicky players out, and consistent, top players in. Do you enjoy watching BitByBit and Rain play? I do enjoy watching cheese sometimes. But when a players primary strategy is abusing an op strat. Than I dont want to see them play. Wether or not they can crush Idra or HuK with that strat.
Starcraft should be considered a purely competitive sport. Do whatever it takes to win. If you become first in the world because you rock at cheesy strats, then you are pretty damn good at Starcraft. It is no different than chess or poker. You wouldn't exclude players from tournaments because they have abusive strategies. The whole point of competitive sports is to abuse the restrictions imposed on you. If players begin to really abuse certain strategies and cheese becomes more prevalent, that will only incite Blizzard to make balance changes. Blizzard wants the game to be entertaining for everyone. By hiding these builds away from the public image of the game, we are only preventing those imbalances from being fixed. If the NASL were an open tournament, we would have a "broodwar balanced" game in no time, rather than several years.
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On February 22 2011 11:17 Ribbon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 10:27 motbob wrote:...every player is supposed to be backed by a $250 refundable fee. Essentially what it is, is every time they're rude or they're late or any kind of unforeseeable problems occur they'll be penalized $25 or $50 and that comes out of the refundable fee of course. But most people, hopefully all, will be completely and immaculately fine and will get that $250 back. But the idea is to make them accountable. I predict hilarity on this account. Even ignoring the fact that a teammate of IdrA is the arbiter of BM, the minute someone does or does not get financially penalized for something, there'll be a 50 page flamewar (which may be the point). Would HuK be fined for being "such a little idiot" last night? Would Losira and Bomber get fined for the greatest game of all time? If IdrA loses to a strategy, and then publically declares it imbalanced, is that a fine for demeaning his opponent's win? Yes OR no answers will lead to massive flamewars.
I feel like this is more of a hedge against the risks of hosting a big tournament like this online. There has to be some kind of penalty if someone like pre-GM Naniwa just doesn't show up, or it really harms the credibility of the tournament as a StarLeague.
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On February 22 2011 11:17 Ribbon wrote:
Would HuK be fined for being "such a little idiot" last night? Would Losira and Bomber get fined for the greatest game of all time? If IdrA loses to a strategy, and then publically declares it imbalanced, is that a fine for demeaning his opponent's win?
Yes OR no answers will lead to massive flamewars.
no... they aren't going to fine them for being BM. They will probably fine them if say, hypothetically, huk curses at an admin repeatedly. It's just an incentive to show up essentially.
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really excited about this
//tx
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I really don't understand the "many" teams with 6 top tier players that can join the NASL. There's really only a couple, and between them there's going to be people who aren't going to make it. All the Liquid guys in Korea aren't going to be able to play because of latency, the European teams are going to have trouble committing to a LA based LAN.
In my opinion the team this hurts the most is EG, maybe ROOT. Everyone else doesn't have much of a leg to stand on.
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On February 22 2011 11:18 NexaS wrote:
I think those of you who are posting about "anyone" not being able to make it into the tournament are kind of in the wrong. "Anyone" can join smaller tournaments and work their way up through the ranks, fame, etc. This is the fucking NA STAR League. Not the "random kid from ladder" league.
The problem isn't that it's limited - it's that membership in "a team" is not a good way to limit it. I really think being top 200 on the ladder in order to try to qualify is a good way to do it. Really, anything that's well-defined and attainable by someone who actually was good enough to be in the league would be fine.
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On February 22 2011 11:13 Karthane wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 11:09 Brad wrote:
As much as i would love Koreans to be fully represented in NASL, we have to be realistic. It's like flooding the American Soccer League with European players (or the European basketball league with NBA players.). Not every league has to be fully international, that's what the Olympics and World Cup is for. Well the problem is we don't really have the "olympics" of Starcraft 2, Korea has GSL, US has NASL. Europe has a few small tournies. I guess there is IEM but i would love to have a fully international league. But it really seems with all this springing up we are definetely headed towards being able to crown a true world champion, and i'm sure a league will come up to support that.
SC2 has been out for 7months now? or 8? Not even a year, WCG and ESWC, the general gaming Olympics are yet to come yet you're saying there is no Olympics. (Yes SC2 isn't in the official game line up yet but I'd be pretty damn stupid of 'm to not put it in). Or did you expect to have an SC2 Olympics within the first 5 months of the games release, that would be a bit dull imo. Something as a 'world championship' should be a 1 year or 2/3/4 year thing. You can't go throw around that title, it'll lose all it's value.
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I'm pretty against the team limit thing. Now, I totally understand the aid against team kills and the reasoning of wanting more teams, but let me try and lay this out.
1) Powerhouse teams. Like TL, some teams have some real all-star lineups. You can't just go up to the Lakers and say, "Guys, you're going to have to bench everyone on your starting line except for Bryant and Gasol." This could also have the unfortunate prospect of breaking up teams. That's an incredibly scary and awful consequence. Maybe you could say that putting in more than five allows team kills but just say that they are guaranteed to be spread out among all the divisions (i.e., you spread them as if there were only five and then start adding on. Never have something like 3-1-1-1-1, but 2-2-1-1-1 is okay).
2) These are really long seasons. You're automatically keeping some awesome players out of the running for a third of the year. Essentially, each team would have to put people on the bench each season or just perpetually stonewall a couple of players and never let them go on because they're just a little bit below the other players. Considering how awful this is for those players we would be going back to that "team breakup" scenario that I mentioned before.
I realize that some of these are worst case scenarios. However, I also feel like there are some really legitimate concerns in there and am sure that at least one of those really bad things will come to pass. I realize this is a league that hasn't even started yet, but that's just more incentive for us to help you guys get ideas and work it out now. At least with all of this (hopefully constructive) criticism you will have some solid ideas to fall back on if season one is a little rocky.
Good luck with your continued preparations and thank you for working so hard on this for us all! I'm so excited for this (DAILY STARCRAFT!!!)!
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EPT
