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motbob
United States12546 Posts
g4tv.com did an interview with incontrol about the NASL. It's up on the g4tv thread, but there was a LOT of important information in that interview that isn't anywhere else on TL yet, so I'm going to compile it here.
The full interview can be found here: http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/710588/North-American-Star-League-Exclusive-Interview-with-Geoff-iNcontroL-Robinson.html
Statistics, dates
Playing for: $400,000 over three seasons ($100k for season one, $100k for season two, $200k for season three)
Commentators: Inc, Gretorp, Diggity, others who haven't been confirmed yet.
Dates and times: Starts on April 5th, ends sometime in July. 25 games per week, 5 games per night (approx 3 hours per night).
Structure: Nine weeks of group play, then a 16 man LAN in southern California.
Eligibility: Anyone can apply (including Koreans), as long as they are on a gaming team (not sure if the team has to meet some set level of sponsorship/notoriety) and they commit to go to the July LAN held in California. Incontrol stated that perhaps there will be a cap on Koreans at five max, but this isn't set in stone. There is a cap on the number of players from each team, set at five. EG and Liquid, in other words, can have no more than five players in the event.
There will also be an open tournament that anyone can enter to determine who advances to one of the spots in the final sixteen.
Each team player will be put in a different division, so no one will hit a member of their team in their division so there will be no HuK vs. Ret in divisional play.
Professionalism and backstory
Every player will be required to turn in a profile including a picture and answers to some questions. Creating backstory is a top priority for the people running the NASL.
...every player is supposed to be backed by a $250 refundable fee. Essentially what it is, is every time they're rude or they're late or any kind of unforeseeable problems occur they'll be penalized $25 or $50 and that comes out of the refundable fee of course. But most people, hopefully all, will be completely and immaculately fine and will get that $250 back. But the idea is to make them accountable.
We're already sold on three seasons. The money has been budgeted and secured. There's no like, “well gosh, if season one does really well then season two will be fine.” It's completely secure for three seasons. It's all insured and backed by Blizzard, that kind of stuff. And the idea again is that we laid down the infrastructure, it grows, gets easier as we go, and then if it's a profitable venture we can continue on for four, five, six seasons and beyond.
Tell us about the stream quality.
Sure, that's something we're very proud of. Obviously when you do something like this that's broadcast online, we're selling high octane competition with the best players, but that doesn't mean anything if it doesn't reach the viewers. So we're taking every precaution necessary. We've definitely put together the most comprehensive machines to render and record and stream the activity. But we're also using fiber optics internet and then we're actually partnered with Justin.tv and they are working with us side by side. So there's a lot on the line for Justin.tv. But you know what? They're getting more involved with eSports as well and they're excited for the opportunity to show, as far as they're concerned and as far as we're concerned the best streaming organization there is.
ESPORTS
The owner of Coaching, Russ, he is the mastermind. This is his baby. He partnered with a USC law school graduate named Duncan who's kind of an eSports newbie, he saw a nice business venture and he's excited and learning more about eSports and they backed it and created it.
We're already sold on three seasons. The money has been budgeted and secured. There's no like, “well gosh, if season one does really well then season two will be fine.” It's completely secure for three seasons. It's all insured and backed by Blizzard, that kind of stuff. And the idea again is that we laid down the infrastructure, it grows, gets easier as we go, and then if it's a profitable venture we can continue on for four, five, six seasons and beyond.
But it's definitely a grass roots effort in the sense that we're not hiring out, we're not getting crews to come in here. We're definitely getting trained by professionals but I mean it's gonna be run by Andre (Gretorp) and myself, Russ, Duncan, and the varying people surrounding GosuCoaching and our friends that kind of came together and helped put this together.
Is there a place in the studio for spectators?
motbob's summary: yes, but not too many.
Are you going to be offering a premium stream?
Yes. There's going to be a free low quality stream that will be made available to everybody... And then there will be a premium channel which is going to be behind a pay wall but made very very cheap. A whole season we're looking at maybe $20 to $25.
What other things are the premium members going to get? Is it going to be like GOM where they get VODs?
Yeah pretty much exactly like that. You'll get a season pass and then access to the high quality VODs. We're talking about creating additional content as well like giving them access to replays but then we thought that was kind of silly because it only takes one person to get a replay and then the whole internet has the replay.
Is your plan for broadcasting to be online only or are you going to try for television?
We want the sky to be the limit but we're definitely not shooting for TV and then falling back on stream. The safe bet is streaming, that's what we know we can do so that's what we're doing now.
And then it's kind of the same faces for those that follow this stuff. Xeris is his handle, Duran Parsi, he's the Fnatic team manager. He's the guy that heads up the Coaching league and if you ask anyone StarCraft related he is the premiere organizer for events. So it's no big shock that when it came too putting together the biggest league outside of South Korea, and perhaps even within South Korea, that he was one of the first guy's locked down.
How is this going to interact with MLG? Are you going to schedule around MLG? Competing with MLG? How's that going to work?
I've actually been in contact with MLG for months now trying to figure out when they're holding events and how we can not steps on toes that way and they've been very cooperative. Actually we just had a phone call two days ago where, much to my appreciation, they've going to release kind of their full schedule as far as they see it so that we can allow players to participate in everything.
A Note On Voting
On February 22 2011 10:06 iNcontroL wrote:
The voting is a fun way to get involved and support your favorite players. It helps but by no means WHAT SO EVER decides who gets selected.
Please stop looking for ways to make this a bad thing.
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I'm really looking forward to this. Starcraft II goes west! (even more)
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I hope it's not another GSL. I will admit I am looking forward to it, mlg has been real boring lately and GSTL was a bit of a snoozefest.
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so will the player list be invite or will it come down to the voting? ;D
anyways thx a lot motbob for this !
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Australia8532 Posts
Thanks for the compilation! it's great to have it all in one place..
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Awesome, thanks for compiling the info into one tidy post! very helpful!
Looking forward to who exactly gets in through the open tournaments, maybe we'll have some not so familiar names playing :D
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So only 1 player from the 1,000 man open qualifier gets to get into the RO16 Automatically?
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Great summary, thanks for this.
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Thanks for the summary, looking good.
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I don't get the maximum 5 players per team thing wouldn't mind hearing more on it. I can think of maybe 2-3 teams who can line up 6 players that can all make a deep run in such a tournament. This whole rule seems to have a rather small impact on the tournament but it badly hurts a few individual players, and I don't see the gain in removing 2 world class players from your tournament because they share a team tag with 5 others. If they're good enough they're good enough.
Probably missing something about this rule but can't figure out what. Can't wait for additional information to come out.
Editing this in:
On February 22 2011 10:44 Nevy wrote:
They're making it so people from the same team won't face each other early on. That might be part of the reason why.
I assume they try to avoid team battles to do the teams a favor. Excluding one of the players is not doing any team a favor so it's hard to imagine that being the reason.
Maybe it's that players of a single team often have similar fans and you want to reach out to the various groups of fans. If there were a couple teams each dominating the scene with a lineup of 10 players then maybe that would lead to less viewers. Realistically however that rule will benefit the tournament way too sporadically compared to the harm it causes.
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On February 22 2011 10:32 tok wrote:
I hope it's not another GSL. I will admit I am looking forward to it, mlg has been real boring lately and GSTL was a bit of a snoozefest.
So what are you saying? You don't want a high-end tournament? If it is anything close to GSL this will be a HUGE deal for the west.
So fucking excited.
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On February 22 2011 10:32 tok wrote:
I hope it's not another GSL. I will admit I am looking forward to it, mlg has been real boring lately and GSTL was a bit of a snoozefest.
Troll? GSTL was absolutely amazing, but, I guess--- To Each His Own. I'm excited about this league but also skeptical. I'm not completely sold just yet...
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9 weeks of divisional play!!?!? ... whoa. This isn't some single-elim slugfest, this is the real deal! I love it!
Also I love hearing that MLG has been cooperating strongly - this isn't competition over the esports scene, the scene needs to cooperate to grow :D
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On February 22 2011 10:33 drewbie.root wrote:
so will the player list be invite or will it come down to the voting? ;D
anyways thx a lot motbob for this !
iNcontroL said that invites are not purely due to voting.
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I'm hyped.
EDIT: Got to flesh this out a little bit.
I'm hyped for several reasons but first and foremost because we will finally get a benchmark where western Starcraft 2 players can be judged. MLG, IEM, ESL etc. are all fine but since not every player participate in those tournaments it's hard to see how good a player actually is in comparison to the rest of the field.
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I'd love to see Diggity & Moletrap get in on the casting action. Though it's only a dream, breaking Cholera and Klazart out of retirement would be freakin glorious too 
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Any info on are they going to cast the games live as played or from replays?
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On February 22 2011 10:36 laguu wrote:
Any info on are they going to cast the games live as played or from replays?
Live.
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i think this is AWESOME only thing i would change would be more spots for qualifier players i think it would make more people try to get good if they see more chances in getting in.. cause lets be honest 1 in 1000 doesnt seem lot of chances and a great guy can allways have a bad day xD
or maybe make a little qualifier for the invites for the League Stage Like you would pick 45 players and other 5 would get in league by qualifiers
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
Perhaps this can turn into a bit of a Q&A thread.
- How does the NASL foresee bringing in players from different continents? Will the league make accommodations, or will that be the sole responsibility of the their teams?
- How does the NASL anticipate having to compete against the GSL? Are you expecting both to co-exist, or are you intending to compete against them?
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God I hope this doesn't come down to voting T_T
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On February 22 2011 10:34 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I don't get the maximum 5 players per team thing wouldn't mind hearing more on it. I can think of maybe two teams who can line up 6 players that can all make a deep run in such a tournament. This whole rule seems to have a rather small impact on the tournament but it badly hurts a few individual players, and I don't see the gain in removing 2 world class players from your tournament because they share a team tag with 5 others. If they're good enough they're good enough. Probably missing something about this rule but can't figure out what.
Yeah. It did strike me as strange. Few teams can field that many guys. Let alone of "Code S" quality.
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On February 22 2011 10:33 drewbie.root wrote:
so will the player list be invite or will it come down to the voting? ;D
anyways thx a lot motbob for this !
Quote from iNcontroL from the other thread:
The voting is a fun way to get involved and support your favorite players. It helps but by no means WHAT SO EVER decides who gets selected.
Please stop looking for ways to make this a bad thing.
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On February 22 2011 10:35 sylverfyre wrote:
9 weeks of divisional play!!?!? ... whoa. This isn't some single-elim slugfest, this is the real deal! I love it!
Also I love hearing that MLG has been cooperating strongly - this isn't competition over the esports scene, the scene needs to cooperate to grow :D
I wouldn't be so sure MLG's cooperation is charity on their part. This tournament is offering much more prize money than they are, and if they didn't cooperate it could very well be MLG that ended up not getting any good players. I actually think the western scene has too many "big" tournaments and no one with the sort of huge prestige that winning GSL gives you (and therefore no tournament with that level of attention). I wouldn't mind a little more competition.
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On February 22 2011 10:32 tok wrote:
I hope it's not another GSL. I will admit I am looking forward to it, mlg has been real boring lately and GSTL was a bit of a snoozefest.
MLG can't be boring when it is not on.
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iNcontroL quote from other thread.
On February 22 2011 10:06 iNcontroL wrote:
The voting is a fun way to get involved and support your favorite players. It helps but by no means WHAT SO EVER decides who gets selected.
Please stop looking for ways to make this a bad thing.
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I really like how involved justin.tv is in this. How many viewers did we have for the showmatch? 20k? I also really like how fast Justin.tv gets vods up, and their quality. I know some people who hate the GSL stream because of it's low quality, but that doesn't sound like it is going to be a problem for anybody.
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On February 22 2011 10:34 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I don't get the maximum 5 players per team thing wouldn't mind hearing more on it. I can think of maybe 2-3 teams who can line up 6 players that can all make a deep run in such a tournament. This whole rule seems to have a rather small impact on the tournament but it badly hurts a few individual players, and I don't see the gain in removing 2 world class players from your tournament because they share a team tag with 5 others. If they're good enough they're good enough.
Probably missing something about this rule but can't figure out what. Can't wait for additional information to come out.
Agreed completely. This is the one thing I'm not liking about the whole annoucement.
If a team has good players, it has good players. It's unfair for a better player to be left out simply because they're in the same team as 5 other good players. Not only is it unfair, but it also decreases the overall quality of players in the tournament
On February 22 2011 10:32 tok wrote:
I hope it's not another GSL. I will admit I am looking forward to it, mlg has been real boring lately and GSTL was a bit of a snoozefest.
You must not follow eSports at all lol There has been no MLG lately, and to not want something of GSL caliber and to call the GSTL a snoozefest is ludicrous
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Excellent and informative wrap-up. Thanks.
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Thanks for the summary, I just finished reading the whole interview but this kinda sums it all up. I don't know if capping of the amount of koreans is a good idea, but then again it'll give more foreign players a chance to actually go for it! Also I think the TSL will show off some difference in skill level between Koreans and non-koreans, what ever way it may go, this might give insight on the decision for season 2 and s3.
I also feel that the voting isn't the best idea, I'm a 'fan' of trump, or atleast his stream so I voted for him but if i'd be objectively he might not be a 'top 50 player'. Then again it gets all the players people want to see so, that's a good think I suppose :D. Go go NASL!
Edit:
iNcontroL quote from other thread. Show nested quote +
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On February 22 2011 10:06 iNcontroL wrote:
The voting is a fun way to get involved and support your favorite players. It helps but by no means WHAT SO EVER decides who gets selected.
Please stop looking for ways to make this a bad thing.
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I, and I think many others, miss understood this then or just were to lazy to read everything and to eager to start voting :D
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On February 22 2011 10:34 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I don't get the maximum 5 players per team thing wouldn't mind hearing more on it. I can think of maybe 2-3 teams who can line up 6 players that can all make a deep run in such a tournament. This whole rule seems to have a rather small impact on the tournament but it badly hurts a few individual players, and I don't see the gain in removing 2 world class players from your tournament because they share a team tag with 5 others. If they're good enough they're good enough.
Probably missing something about this rule but can't figure out what. Can't wait for additional information to come out.
thats a rule thats definitely gonna have to change. I understand why they wanted it, no team killing in any division but its going to cause teams to split just so players can compete.
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On February 22 2011 10:40 DeltruS wrote:
I really like how involved justin.tv is in this. How many viewers did we have for the showmatch? 20k? I also really like how fast Justin.tv gets vods up, and their quality. I know some people who hate the GSL stream because of it's low quality, but that doesn't sound like it is going to be a problem for anybody.
By the looks of it, alot more. Pushing 25k i bet.
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On February 22 2011 10:34 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I don't get the maximum 5 players per team thing wouldn't mind hearing more on it. I can think of maybe 2-3 teams who can line up 6 players that can all make a deep run in such a tournament. This whole rule seems to have a rather small impact on the tournament but it badly hurts a few individual players, and I don't see the gain in removing 2 world class players from your tournament because they share a team tag with 5 others. If they're good enough they're good enough.
Probably missing something about this rule but can't figure out what. Can't wait for additional information to come out.
Couldn't agree more. Haypro, who deserves to be in this more than anyone will most likely end up with the short end of the stick here, as he isn't as popular as the other liquid guys. But he is a far superior player to many people on the list.
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so no one with me in the get more Open spots even if it is for the league/division stage ?
:O 1 in 1000 that will discourage lot of players
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I'm still a little baffled. Where the hell are they getting 400,000 dollars??
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I know the first season total prize is 100,000 dollars, any info on the pay out structure? to what place finish do they pay out to?
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I really think they'd stand to make as much money and satisfy a lot more viewers with a lower premium price, I'm not sure I'm down with $25 a season compared to $10 for a GSL season
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I have a question.
What about other tournaments? This tournament is going to have games daily, 5 days a week. Kind of closes the doors for other tournaments who want the same competitors at their events. These also seem like relatively long seasons, which is both a positive and a negative. a Positive for the fans but seems like players will have to dedicate months at a time to this competition, closing the doors for chances of another tournament/series.
any comments any1?
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Fantastic information -- I'm hyped! =D
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On February 22 2011 10:34 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I don't get the maximum 5 players per team thing wouldn't mind hearing more on it. I can think of maybe 2-3 teams who can line up 6 players that can all make a deep run in such a tournament. This whole rule seems to have a rather small impact on the tournament but it badly hurts a few individual players, and I don't see the gain in removing 2 world class players from your tournament because they share a team tag with 5 others. If they're good enough they're good enough.
Probably missing something about this rule but can't figure out what. Can't wait for additional information to come out.
They're making it so people from the same team won't face each other early on. That might be part of the reason why.
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My question:
Will I be able to attend this event like people attend an MLG?
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Yes this is amazing and it is what we need as gamers. Can't wait till the day where I can watch this stuff on demand.
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The 5 player per team kind of makes me sad, but if they have a maximum of 50 people slugging it out in the first 9 weeks, I guess they wanted to promote diversity. Having Fnatic and EG contributing more players than some other teams might also be cause for some controversy, so I guess the 5 player limit circumvents that.
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On February 22 2011 10:37 tree.hugger wrote:
Perhaps this can turn into a bit of a Q&A thread.
- How does the NASL foresee bringing in players from different continents? Will the league make accommodations, or will that be the sole responsibility of the their teams?
This.
If IdrA has come away from Korea tp play here when he might as well have been playing for both the GSL and the NASL(yeah, yeah.. we all know the Team house with the perverted old man wasnt reason enuff to leave GSL!) it kinda tells me that intercontinental play may be slightly compromised. 
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On February 22 2011 10:43 Pinith wrote:
I really think they'd stand to make as much money and satisfy a lot more viewers with a lower premium price, I'm not sure I'm down with $25 a season compared to $10 for a GSL season
It is longer than a GSL season though so you would be paying a roughly similar amount for the amount of content you get (I think?)
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On February 22 2011 10:34 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I don't get the maximum 5 players per team thing wouldn't mind hearing more on it. I can think of maybe 2-3 teams who can line up 6 players that can all make a deep run in such a tournament. This whole rule seems to have a rather small impact on the tournament but it badly hurts a few individual players, and I don't see the gain in removing 2 world class players from your tournament because they share a team tag with 5 others. If they're good enough they're good enough.
Probably missing something about this rule but can't figure out what. Can't wait for additional information to come out.
I could be wrong here, but they don't want team kills and NASL will have 50 players split up into 5 divisions of 10 players each
so limit is 5 players per team to prevent team kills from happening in division play. it could also be a measure to prevent collusion from happening.
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On February 22 2011 10:40 DeltruS wrote:
I really like how involved justin.tv is in this. How many viewers did we have for the showmatch? 20k? I also really like how fast Justin.tv gets vods up, and their quality. I know some people who hate the GSL stream because of it's low quality, but that doesn't sound like it is going to be a problem for anybody.
Stream views were well over 30k (concurrent), quoting some of the mods of the chat. The viewer count was messed up and not showing Europe. Probably extremely high total then too.
This thread clears up a lot of stuff, thanks. Need more of an official post where people can get all the information, can't get on the nasl website, still down for me.
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On February 22 2011 10:42 Karthane wrote:
I'm still a little baffled. Where the hell are they getting 400,000 dollars??
The owner of Coaching, Russ, he is the mastermind. This is his baby. He partnered with a USC law school graduate named Duncan who's kind of an eSports newbie, he saw a nice business venture and he's excited and learning more about eSports and they backed it and created it.
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On February 22 2011 10:34 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I don't get the maximum 5 players per team thing wouldn't mind hearing more on it. I can think of maybe 2-3 teams who can line up 6 players that can all make a deep run in such a tournament. This whole rule seems to have a rather small impact on the tournament but it badly hurts a few individual players, and I don't see the gain in removing 2 world class players from your tournament because they share a team tag with 5 others. If they're good enough they're good enough.
Probably missing something about this rule but can't figure out what. Can't wait for additional information to come out.
mouz, dignitas, root, eg, empire, millenium, prae, fnatic, aTn and mym all have 5 or less players who could make a dent who is the other team apart from liquid?
I do disagree with the rule but it does seem to only affect liquid
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Maybe 5 max players per team get invited and others have to qualify? The "5 players per team cap" does not make sense if coupled with "best players in league". Just my 2 cents.
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On February 22 2011 10:34 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I don't get the maximum 5 players per team thing wouldn't mind hearing more on it. I can think of maybe 2-3 teams who can line up 6 players that can all make a deep run in such a tournament. This whole rule seems to have a rather small impact on the tournament but it badly hurts a few individual players, and I don't see the gain in removing 2 world class players from your tournament because they share a team tag with 5 others. If they're good enough they're good enough.
Probably missing something about this rule but can't figure out what. Can't wait for additional information to come out.
I don't understand this rule either. It seems like they want to have a lot of variety in order to make the tournament more entertaining. What they don't understand is that Starcraft fans are far more entertained by skills than names. I would much rather watch an unknown who is better than HuK than watch HuK himself play.
This is like if pokerstars created a tournament with $400,000 and told all their players to vote for people. The big celeb players would for sure get voted but it's not like they wouldn't make it to the top in an open tournament anyway. This seems to go against the competitive spirit of Starcraft.
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On February 22 2011 10:34 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I don't get the maximum 5 players per team thing wouldn't mind hearing more on it. I can think of maybe 2-3 teams who can line up 6 players that can all make a deep run in such a tournament. This whole rule seems to have a rather small impact on the tournament but it badly hurts a few individual players, and I don't see the gain in removing 2 world class players from your tournament because they share a team tag with 5 others. If they're good enough they're good enough.
Probably missing something about this rule but can't figure out what. Can't wait for additional information to come out.
5 divisions with 10 players each in a league format. One team member per division. They're making sure there's no team kills, as well as collusion shenanigans, I guess.
At least that's the only explanation I can really come up with.
On February 22 2011 10:46 udgnim wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 10:34 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I don't get the maximum 5 players per team thing wouldn't mind hearing more on it. I can think of maybe 2-3 teams who can line up 6 players that can all make a deep run in such a tournament. This whole rule seems to have a rather small impact on the tournament but it badly hurts a few individual players, and I don't see the gain in removing 2 world class players from your tournament because they share a team tag with 5 others. If they're good enough they're good enough.
Probably missing something about this rule but can't figure out what. Can't wait for additional information to come out. I could be wrong here, but they don't want team kills and NASL will have 50 players split up into 5 divisions of 10 players each so limit is 5 players per team to prevent team kills from happening in division play. it could also be a measure to prevent collusion from happening.
Exactly this.
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On February 22 2011 10:34 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I don't get the maximum 5 players per team thing wouldn't mind hearing more on it. I can think of maybe 2-3 teams who can line up 6 players that can all make a deep run in such a tournament. This whole rule seems to have a rather small impact on the tournament but it badly hurts a few individual players, and I don't see the gain in removing 2 world class players from your tournament because they share a team tag with 5 others. If they're good enough they're good enough.
Probably missing something about this rule but can't figure out what. Can't wait for additional information to come out.
Looks to me there is one particular team that would suffer the most from this rule. Very silly rule indeed.
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On February 22 2011 10:46 Brad wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 10:42 Karthane wrote:
I'm still a little baffled. Where the hell are they getting 400,000 dollars?? The owner of Coaching, Russ, he is the mastermind. This is his baby. He partnered with a USC law school graduate named Duncan who's kind of an eSports newbie, he saw a nice business venture and he's excited and learning more about eSports and they backed it and created it.
So basically these guys has 400k sitting around to drop on a Starcraft 2 tournament?
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"considering have koreans", "capping them off at 5 players" hmmm just lol
who are the sponsors behind the $400k?
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On February 22 2011 10:43 mnofstl007 wrote:
I have a question.
What about other tournaments? This tournament is going to have games daily, 5 days a week. Kind of closes the doors for other tournaments who want the same competitors at their events. These also seem like relatively long seasons, which is both a positive and a negative. a Positive for the fans but seems like players will have to dedicate months at a time to this competition, closing the doors for chances of another tournament/series.
any comments any1?
Well there is 1 week for the open tournament and a 1week break, then a 16man lan (which takes like 2 days (1 weekend) i suppose. So then there is like a 2.5week window for many other tournaments, also I don't know how long the break will be after the seasons, so I suppose that's another gap for other tournaments.
There are no games during the weekend so 'normal lans' shouldn't interfer at all, also since you need internet to play anyway, if the lan offers it, players can just play from basically anywhere they want since it's an online tournament.
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United States4714 Posts
I hope NASL succeeds so that starcraft's popularity can grow in NA, but I have some reservations.
I strongly disagree with the maximum 5 players per team rule. The tournament should be about having the best players in the world regardless of what team they are. If the 6 best players in the world were on 1 team then the 6th best player on the planet would be excluded for no reason. I just don't see any possible benefit to excluding possible world class players because they are on a team full of other monsters.
Also, the presentation for how this was announced leaves a lot to be desired. Incontrol has hyped this non stop and now that its finally announced there's so much unknown. I mean the first broadcast is in what 1.5 months and they really don't even know for sure who the casters will be? That just seems insane to me.
I am also not a fan at all of almost every player being invited/voted on. I don't mind there being some invites but it really hurts the legitimacy of the league when there's no way, other than 1 1000 person tourney, for unknown players to qualify. With a game as new as SC2 there are tons of up and coming players who are incredibly good and just not famous yet. It sucks that these guys basically won't even get a chance.
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On February 22 2011 10:47 shaunnn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 10:34 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I don't get the maximum 5 players per team thing wouldn't mind hearing more on it. I can think of maybe 2-3 teams who can line up 6 players that can all make a deep run in such a tournament. This whole rule seems to have a rather small impact on the tournament but it badly hurts a few individual players, and I don't see the gain in removing 2 world class players from your tournament because they share a team tag with 5 others. If they're good enough they're good enough.
Probably missing something about this rule but can't figure out what. Can't wait for additional information to come out. mouz, dignitas, root, eg, empire, millenium, prae, fnatic, aTn and mym all have 5 or less players who could make a dent who is the other team apart from liquid? I do disagree with the rule but it does seem to only affect liquid
oGs? IM? With the prize pool this huge, there is no doubt that they will send players. I dunno about 5, but I would be extremely surprised if we didn't see some of their players.
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On February 22 2011 10:42 Karthane wrote:
I'm still a little baffled. Where the hell are they getting 400,000 dollars??
Theres been no mention of sponsors so all thats left is the Paid HD stream and they even talk about making money in the interview so I'm not sure what their expecting..
Can't imagine Justin.tv putting money into ontop of providing the stream and laying fiber, but maybe.
Still don't understand where incontrol is, I mean he's already closed a thread (about Huks Twitter) so not he's off the grid, the stream was (mostly) pre-recorded so theres no big stress to relieve, there isnt even an official thread so everyone's all of the place.
Anyway thanks motbob ofr making something semi-offical 
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On February 22 2011 10:43 Pinith wrote:
I really think they'd stand to make as much money and satisfy a lot more viewers with a lower premium price, I'm not sure I'm down with $25 a season compared to $10 for a GSL season
NASL season will be 14 weeks, also, it will be 3 HOURS per day 5 DAYS per WEEK.
it seems pretty reasonable
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On February 22 2011 10:44 Nevy wrote:
They're making it so people from the same team won't face each other early on. That might be part of the reason why.
I assume they try to avoid team battles to do the teams a favor. Excluding one of the players is not doing any team a favor so it's hard to imagine that being the reason.
Maybe it's that players of a single team often have similar fans and you want to reach out to the various groups of fans. If there were a couple teams each dominating the scene with a lineup of 10 players then maybe that would lead to less viewers. Realistically however that rule will benefit the tournament way too sporadically compared to the harm it causes.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On February 22 2011 10:34 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I don't get the maximum 5 players per team thing wouldn't mind hearing more on it. I can think of maybe 2-3 teams who can line up 6 players that can all make a deep run in such a tournament. This whole rule seems to have a rather small impact on the tournament but it badly hurts a few individual players, and I don't see the gain in removing 2 world class players from your tournament because they share a team tag with 5 others. If they're good enough they're good enough.
Probably missing something about this rule but can't figure out what. Can't wait for additional information to come out.
1 player per division is important to this league.
Also with the league only being 50 players it's important teams are at least on face equally represented in a small league.
The OPEN allows for ANYONE to qualifty. #6 in your team? Sup, OPEN
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On February 22 2011 10:34 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I don't get the maximum 5 players per team thing wouldn't mind hearing more on it. I can think of maybe 2-3 teams who can line up 6 players that can all make a deep run in such a tournament. This whole rule seems to have a rather small impact on the tournament but it badly hurts a few individual players, and I don't see the gain in removing 2 world class players from your tournament because they share a team tag with 5 others. If they're good enough they're good enough.
Probably missing something about this rule but can't figure out what. Can't wait for additional information to come out.
Yeah, I don't particularly like this rule. It seems it's punishing teams with good players who can make a run in the tournament.The rule is going keep a couple of players participating in the tournament.
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On February 22 2011 10:34 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I don't get the maximum 5 players per team thing wouldn't mind hearing more on it. I can think of maybe 2-3 teams who can line up 6 players that can all make a deep run in such a tournament. This whole rule seems to have a rather small impact on the tournament but it badly hurts a few individual players, and I don't see the gain in removing 2 world class players from your tournament because they share a team tag with 5 others. If they're good enough they're good enough.
Probably missing something about this rule but can't figure out what. Can't wait for additional information to come out.
Feel exactly the same. Also he said maybe max 5 from Korea? So you're basically counting Korea as a team and only the best 5 can compete? Thats obsurd and I can't fathom that even happening.
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On February 22 2011 10:49 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 10:47 shaunnn wrote:On February 22 2011 10:34 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I don't get the maximum 5 players per team thing wouldn't mind hearing more on it. I can think of maybe 2-3 teams who can line up 6 players that can all make a deep run in such a tournament. This whole rule seems to have a rather small impact on the tournament but it badly hurts a few individual players, and I don't see the gain in removing 2 world class players from your tournament because they share a team tag with 5 others. If they're good enough they're good enough.
Probably missing something about this rule but can't figure out what. Can't wait for additional information to come out. mouz, dignitas, root, eg, empire, millenium, prae, fnatic, aTn and mym all have 5 or less players who could make a dent who is the other team apart from liquid? I do disagree with the rule but it does seem to only affect liquid oGs? IM? With the prize pool this huge, there is no doubt that they will send players. I dunno about 5, but I would be extremely surprised if we didn't see some of their players.
In geoffs interview he said they would maybe have 5 koreans max due to latency issues
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Liquip, EG, & Root to name a few all have more than 5 players who would have a decent shot at progressing well in this league. I certainly don't envy the person who has to pick who gets left out from each team.
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What maps are you going to use for this?
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
On February 22 2011 10:48 Karthane wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 10:46 Brad wrote:On February 22 2011 10:42 Karthane wrote:
I'm still a little baffled. Where the hell are they getting 400,000 dollars?? The owner of Coaching, Russ, he is the mastermind. This is his baby. He partnered with a USC law school graduate named Duncan who's kind of an eSports newbie, he saw a nice business venture and he's excited and learning more about eSports and they backed it and created it. So basically these guys has 400k sitting around to drop on a Starcraft 2 tournament?
I doubt the guy was willing to invest 400k of his own money however optimistic/loaded he is. I imagine there are quite a number of sponsors pitching in.
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I'm curious as to why you will not allow individuals to participate in your league, meaning individuals without a team. Trying to filter out people like PiqLiq or something? lol.
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I wonder how team liquid will handle this? tlaf-lquid'tyler is surely going to participate, tlaf-liquid'ret if he (against all odds) doesn't succeed in gsl has said he wants to play in more foreign tournaments... jinro seem to like korea and does well enough (to say the least) to play in tournaments and not only practice and wait for qualifiers.
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On February 22 2011 10:48 Karthane wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 10:46 Brad wrote:On February 22 2011 10:42 Karthane wrote:
I'm still a little baffled. Where the hell are they getting 400,000 dollars?? The owner of Coaching, Russ, he is the mastermind. This is his baby. He partnered with a USC law school graduate named Duncan who's kind of an eSports newbie, he saw a nice business venture and he's excited and learning more about eSports and they backed it and created it. So basically these guys has 400k sitting around to drop on a Starcraft 2 tournament?
Uhm, It's not just a 'tournament', it's a business. I'm sure if it's successful during the three month test run, we will be seeing NASL for a long time. Every project needs startup capital to get going.
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quoted from the interview
it says the third and fourth get auto-birthed, does 2nd also get auto birthed in addition to being the back up?
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On February 22 2011 10:53 Telcontar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 10:48 Karthane wrote:On February 22 2011 10:46 Brad wrote:On February 22 2011 10:42 Karthane wrote:
I'm still a little baffled. Where the hell are they getting 400,000 dollars?? The owner of Coaching, Russ, he is the mastermind. This is his baby. He partnered with a USC law school graduate named Duncan who's kind of an eSports newbie, he saw a nice business venture and he's excited and learning more about eSports and they backed it and created it. So basically these guys has 400k sitting around to drop on a Starcraft 2 tournament? I doubt the guy was willing to invest 400k of his own money however optimistic/loaded he is. I imagine there are quite a number of sponsors pitching in.
Yeah i was looking for sponsors when i asked, but the guy i quoted made it seem like it was just 1 or 2 guys.
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guys just use some math 50 players 5 asians if they come 45 spots max 5 each team 9 teams..
i dont think thats much so.. i thing if a team brought more than 5 players it would be kinda unfair...
not to talk about players that are not in a team filled with great players
i still think starcraft 2 needs a good Team League i think that would be something that would really help starcraft grow since teams get sponsors teams would try get more players etc.. at least would be more exciting.. im not saying this is not great anyway
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On February 22 2011 10:53 Babaganoush wrote:
I'm curious as to why you will not allow individuals to participate in your league, meaning individuals without a team. Trying to filter out people like PiqLiq or something? lol.
hot lava flows.
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Also with the league only being 50 players it's important teams are at least on face equally represented in a small league.
Why?
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this seem like a question that should have an easy to way to find the answer to but I can't find it: Who sponsors the entire event, price, production and so on, strictly gosucoaching?
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On February 22 2011 10:50 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 10:34 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I don't get the maximum 5 players per team thing wouldn't mind hearing more on it. I can think of maybe 2-3 teams who can line up 6 players that can all make a deep run in such a tournament. This whole rule seems to have a rather small impact on the tournament but it badly hurts a few individual players, and I don't see the gain in removing 2 world class players from your tournament because they share a team tag with 5 others. If they're good enough they're good enough.
Probably missing something about this rule but can't figure out what. Can't wait for additional information to come out. 1 player per division is important to this league. Also with the league only being 50 players it's important teams are at least on face equally represented in a small league. The OPEN allows for ANYONE to qualifty. #6 in your team? Sup, OPEN
iNc, what kind of participation are you expecting from other teams? I'm sure teams will want to be a part of this, but none of the players or managers seemed to have been informed of the details yet.
Are there plans to support European teams if they come over? Have you contacted the other teams and locked down some participants?
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On February 22 2011 10:57 Serpico wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 10:53 Babaganoush wrote:
I'm curious as to why you will not allow individuals to participate in your league, meaning individuals without a team. Trying to filter out people like PiqLiq or something? lol. hot lava flows.
I'm creating a company called Hot Lava Flow for the sole purpose of sponsoring PiQLiQ and sending him to NASL.
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If the votes don't determine who gets in, then what does? It seems to be a little unexplained.
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I also 'feel' like the single OPEN slot is a real real longshot for everyone else.
Maybe have 5 opens. Each winner gets to play the 3rd place finisher (or wild card playoff winner) from each division. Because the 50 people in the actual league have had enough chances to get in.
On average that will just be 2.5 out of 16 slots going to the OPEN field but it feels a lot better IMO.
Yes I realize it adds 4 more open tourneys worth of work.
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I was wondering, what about maps?
Custom ones?
ladder?
iCCUP or GSL maps?
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On February 22 2011 10:48 Karthane wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 10:46 Brad wrote:On February 22 2011 10:42 Karthane wrote:
I'm still a little baffled. Where the hell are they getting 400,000 dollars?? The owner of Coaching, Russ, he is the mastermind. This is his baby. He partnered with a USC law school graduate named Duncan who's kind of an eSports newbie, he saw a nice business venture and he's excited and learning more about eSports and they backed it and created it. So basically these guys has 400k sitting around to drop on a Starcraft 2 tournament?
Nope ><
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venture_capitalist
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On February 22 2011 10:58 Minigun wrote:
If the votes don't determine who gets in, then what does? It seems to be a little unexplained.
I believe they use the votes as a basis for who the community would like the most and then the final decisions are probably made internally by iNc and company. Seems like the most logical thing, but we'll see what iNcontroL or someone says.
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On February 22 2011 10:50 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 10:34 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I don't get the maximum 5 players per team thing wouldn't mind hearing more on it. I can think of maybe 2-3 teams who can line up 6 players that can all make a deep run in such a tournament. This whole rule seems to have a rather small impact on the tournament but it badly hurts a few individual players, and I don't see the gain in removing 2 world class players from your tournament because they share a team tag with 5 others. If they're good enough they're good enough.
Probably missing something about this rule but can't figure out what. Can't wait for additional information to come out. 1 player per division is important to this league. Also with the league only being 50 players it's important teams are at least on face equally represented in a small league. The OPEN allows for ANYONE to qualifty. #6 in your team? Sup, OPEN
Sup 1000 man qualifier!?
On the other hand I totally get the 5 Korean limit rule.. Tis is NOT a Global Starleague. Its the NASL. You have to keep things tilted to the american side of things as much as possible. Kinda similar to the ESL.
But yeah I disagree with any rule that just applies to basically 1 team(i.e. TL) at the moment... EG, DIgnitas, Root while excellent have noway to say they have anything like >5 truly world class players. And the team-kill logic makes NO sense as Naz aptly illustrated.
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On February 22 2011 10:58 Pervect wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 10:57 Serpico wrote:On February 22 2011 10:53 Babaganoush wrote:
I'm curious as to why you will not allow individuals to participate in your league, meaning individuals without a team. Trying to filter out people like PiqLiq or something? lol. hot lava flows. I'm creating a company called Hot Lava Flow for the sole purpose of sponsoring PiQLiQ and sending him to NASL.
Is this some sort of inside joke?
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I'm not sure it makes sense to even talk about teams in this context. When sports leagues talk about teams, they don't mean "groups of people who call themselves a team" - a team needs to have official standing with the league. There's no central team registry for starcraft 2, so who counts? Do OGS members take away from Liquid's cap, since they practice together? If not, then I propose Tyler and Haypro form a new team, "PseudoLiquid," that will "partner" with Liquid for training purposes. TLAF might even be willing to sponsor them too.
Obviously we all know what the current "teams" are, but I mention the OGS-Liquid example to show that this stuff happens naturally. Teams really do merge, and it happens gradually. Also, this applies not just to the 5 person cap, but also to the requirement that you be on a team in order to participate. What counts as being "on a team"?
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Teams are already vote-boosting themselves. You can see some lesser known teams surging forward.
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anyway the guy that wins the 1000 man qualifier i think he should be crowned best player in sc2 and just take all prize lol
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On February 22 2011 10:57 tree.hugger wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 10:50 iNcontroL wrote:On February 22 2011 10:34 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I don't get the maximum 5 players per team thing wouldn't mind hearing more on it. I can think of maybe 2-3 teams who can line up 6 players that can all make a deep run in such a tournament. This whole rule seems to have a rather small impact on the tournament but it badly hurts a few individual players, and I don't see the gain in removing 2 world class players from your tournament because they share a team tag with 5 others. If they're good enough they're good enough.
Probably missing something about this rule but can't figure out what. Can't wait for additional information to come out. 1 player per division is important to this league. Also with the league only being 50 players it's important teams are at least on face equally represented in a small league. The OPEN allows for ANYONE to qualifty. #6 in your team? Sup, OPEN iNc, what kind of participation are you expecting from other teams? I'm sure teams will want to be a part of this, but none of the players or managers seemed to have been informed of the details yet. Are there plans to support European teams if they come over? Have you contacted the other teams and locked down some participants?
It's being taken care of We don't need to make EVERYTHING public. That is a bit unrealistic. Please read through the stuff we put out there and if you really really have some mind bending question that you think might have slipped passed us PM me.
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On February 22 2011 10:34 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I don't get the maximum 5 players per team thing wouldn't mind hearing more on it. I can think of maybe 2-3 teams who can line up 6 players that can all make a deep run in such a tournament. This whole rule seems to have a rather small impact on the tournament but it badly hurts a few individual players, and I don't see the gain in removing 2 world class players from your tournament because they share a team tag with 5 others. If they're good enough they're good enough.
Probably missing something about this rule but can't figure out what. Can't wait for additional information to come out.
This is pretty significant. Look, we all know teams like Liquid have more than 5 players who could easily make it to the top given a proper qualification procedure and it seems unfair to prevent them from competing, especially because those spots will be given to players on teams like VT and whatnot (who are comparatively terrible, sorry).
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On February 22 2011 11:00 SushilS wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 10:50 iNcontroL wrote:On February 22 2011 10:34 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I don't get the maximum 5 players per team thing wouldn't mind hearing more on it. I can think of maybe 2-3 teams who can line up 6 players that can all make a deep run in such a tournament. This whole rule seems to have a rather small impact on the tournament but it badly hurts a few individual players, and I don't see the gain in removing 2 world class players from your tournament because they share a team tag with 5 others. If they're good enough they're good enough.
Probably missing something about this rule but can't figure out what. Can't wait for additional information to come out. 1 player per division is important to this league. Also with the league only being 50 players it's important teams are at least on face equally represented in a small league. The OPEN allows for ANYONE to qualifty. #6 in your team? Sup, OPEN Sup 1000 man qualifier!? On the other hand I totally get the 5 Korean limit rule.. Tis is NOT a Global Starleague. Its the NASL. You have to keep things tilted to the american side of things as much as possible. Kinda similar to the ESL. But yeah I disagree with any rule that just applies to basically 1 team(i.e. TL) at the moment... EG, DIgnitas, Root while excellent have noway to say they have anything like >5 truly world class players. And the team-kill logic makes NO sense as Naz aptly illustrated.
It's a 5 person TEAM limit. If both OGS and IM send 5 players to the NASL they count as two separate teams.
Anyways, it'd be awesome to see more Korean teams get in on this :D
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On February 22 2011 10:49 ithree wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 10:42 Karthane wrote:
I'm still a little baffled. Where the hell are they getting 400,000 dollars?? Theres been no mention of sponsors so all thats left is the Paid HD stream and they even talk about making money in the interview so I'm not sure what their expecting.. Can't imagine Justin.tv putting money into ontop of providing the stream and laying fiber, but maybe. Still don't understand where incontrol is, I mean he's already closed a thread (about Huks Twitter) so not he's off the grid, the stream was (mostly) pre-recorded so theres no big stress to relieve, there isnt even an official thread so everyone's all of the place. Anyway thanks motbob ofr making something semi-offical
Blizzard is sponsoring/insured the money. No mention of sponsors yet*, Some buisiness guy is basically backing this since he saw a 'nice buisiness'. If you want to start a store you get a good buisiness plan and go to a bank, there's ur money.
Justin.tv had 20k viewers during the announcement so say about 1/4 of that will pay for a season ticket. 5k *20$ = 100.000 :o prize money reimbursed. Looking how the votes are running and how hyped this all is there will definitely be some sponsors, intel and razer are always/everywhere sponsoring e-sport events. If the first weeks show promising I think sponsors will come in for the lans.
Then there's a bunch of people who are going to watch the free stream, what about you pop an add or 2 between the games, 10k viewers on the free streams, 0.02$ add/viewers = 200$ per advertisement. they are talking about 3hours of games, so I guess that's like 5 or 6games a night? That's another 1000$ profit from advertisements alone, every night.
Yes these are very speculative number but looking just at season tickets (if it takes off a bit decently) and advertisements they already got a huge sum covered, and then there is sponsorship.
So it's definitely possible to make this very proffitable.
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I don't see why it's not just an open tournament with qualifiers. If the pros we love are really that good, then they will make it to the top. If there are some unknowns out there who could crush idra and huk, well I wanna watch those guys. The popularity system goes against everything that Starcraft is about. This is a COMPETITIVE e-sport, not a popularity contest.
I understand that they want the games to be entertaining, but people are impressed by the skills of the players, not their names. People wanna watch Jinro because he is awesome at Starcraft 2, and we would be even more entertained by someone who is better.
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On February 22 2011 11:01 Babaganoush wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 10:58 Pervect wrote:On February 22 2011 10:57 Serpico wrote:On February 22 2011 10:53 Babaganoush wrote:
I'm curious as to why you will not allow individuals to participate in your league, meaning individuals without a team. Trying to filter out people like PiqLiq or something? lol. hot lava flows. I'm creating a company called Hot Lava Flow for the sole purpose of sponsoring PiQLiQ and sending him to NASL. Is this some sort of inside joke?
iNc said on his stream last night that PiQLiQ would randomly send him messages that said hot lava flow sometimes
Also this announcment has owned so hard, still super pumped. Hype was worth it
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cant wait for this to start =] great find/writeup
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"But it's definitely a grass roots effort in the sense that we're not hiring out, we're not getting crews to come in here. We're definitely getting trained by professionals but I mean it's gonna be run by Andre (Gretorp) and myself, Russ, Duncan, and the varying people surrounding GosuCoaching and our friends that kind of came together and helped put this together."
I don't understand why more of the TL community cannot be involved. There are many talented people in this community that would willingly work for free solely to see Starcraft 2 take off as a profitable esport. I understand that the budget is small but that doesn't mean the production value has to suffer. Why not ask for help?
running a nightly show, 3 hours a day for 25 weeks is going to be brutal unless you have a decent sized crew. I love the ambition and so does everyone else, you guys should have some sort of rush night.
What is the harm is asking?
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On February 22 2011 11:03 joomanjii wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 11:00 SushilS wrote:On February 22 2011 10:50 iNcontroL wrote:On February 22 2011 10:34 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I don't get the maximum 5 players per team thing wouldn't mind hearing more on it. I can think of maybe 2-3 teams who can line up 6 players that can all make a deep run in such a tournament. This whole rule seems to have a rather small impact on the tournament but it badly hurts a few individual players, and I don't see the gain in removing 2 world class players from your tournament because they share a team tag with 5 others. If they're good enough they're good enough.
Probably missing something about this rule but can't figure out what. Can't wait for additional information to come out. 1 player per division is important to this league. Also with the league only being 50 players it's important teams are at least on face equally represented in a small league. The OPEN allows for ANYONE to qualifty. #6 in your team? Sup, OPEN Sup 1000 man qualifier!? On the other hand I totally get the 5 Korean limit rule.. Tis is NOT a Global Starleague. Its the NASL. You have to keep things tilted to the american side of things as much as possible. Kinda similar to the ESL. But yeah I disagree with any rule that just applies to basically 1 team(i.e. TL) at the moment... EG, DIgnitas, Root while excellent have noway to say they have anything like >5 truly world class players. And the team-kill logic makes NO sense as Naz aptly illustrated. It's a 5 person TEAM limit. If both OGS and IM send 5 players to the NASL they count as two separate teams. Anyways, it'd be awesome to see more Korean teams get in on this :D
Except that will never happen because they capped the korean count to 5 from what i heard. Not as global as GSL that is for sure.
No complaints from me though, as this is new and the system will obviously be better in time when they learn what works and what does not.
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1000 man qualifier is like a tournament in itself. with probably a whole bunch of good 6th, 7th, from good teams.
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This is a north american starleague.......can't we just keep this to north americans? ><
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On February 22 2011 10:34 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I don't get the maximum 5 players per team thing wouldn't mind hearing more on it. I can think of maybe 2-3 teams who can line up 6 players that can all make a deep run in such a tournament. This whole rule seems to have a rather small impact on the tournament but it badly hurts a few individual players, and I don't see the gain in removing 2 world class players from your tournament because they share a team tag with 5 others. If they're good enough they're good enough.
Probably missing something about this rule but can't figure out what. Can't wait for additional information to come out.
I think they're going to have 5 divisions right? So 1 player to each division and they're trying their best to not have team kills in division games. It's a way of stopping team killing. Would you want to knock out HuK ( Not saying either of you are better than the other) Maybe in the future they'll have more and more divisions allowing more players. But I think your worrying that you may not be able to play in the NASL.
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On February 22 2011 10:59 antilyon wrote:
I was wondering, what about maps?
Custom ones?
ladder?
iCCUP or GSL maps?
Incontrol hinted that one of the GSL maps used in the showcase today would be in what was then an "unannounced league".
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On February 22 2011 11:05 mango_destroyer wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 11:03 joomanjii wrote:On February 22 2011 11:00 SushilS wrote:On February 22 2011 10:50 iNcontroL wrote:On February 22 2011 10:34 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I don't get the maximum 5 players per team thing wouldn't mind hearing more on it. I can think of maybe 2-3 teams who can line up 6 players that can all make a deep run in such a tournament. This whole rule seems to have a rather small impact on the tournament but it badly hurts a few individual players, and I don't see the gain in removing 2 world class players from your tournament because they share a team tag with 5 others. If they're good enough they're good enough.
Probably missing something about this rule but can't figure out what. Can't wait for additional information to come out. 1 player per division is important to this league. Also with the league only being 50 players it's important teams are at least on face equally represented in a small league. The OPEN allows for ANYONE to qualifty. #6 in your team? Sup, OPEN Sup 1000 man qualifier!? On the other hand I totally get the 5 Korean limit rule.. Tis is NOT a Global Starleague. Its the NASL. You have to keep things tilted to the american side of things as much as possible. Kinda similar to the ESL. But yeah I disagree with any rule that just applies to basically 1 team(i.e. TL) at the moment... EG, DIgnitas, Root while excellent have noway to say they have anything like >5 truly world class players. And the team-kill logic makes NO sense as Naz aptly illustrated. It's a 5 person TEAM limit. If both OGS and IM send 5 players to the NASL they count as two separate teams. Anyways, it'd be awesome to see more Korean teams get in on this :D Except that will never happen because they capped the korean count to 5 from what i heard. Not as global as GSL that is for sure.
Ah you're right:
"It will be played on the North American server. It is online until the 16-man offline finals. So we're considering having Koreans in the league as well, but probably capping them off at five or something like that. But if they were to play, unless they physically flew to a place that had a better latency for a North American server, they would have to deal with problems of time zone restrictions but also latency, and the same is true for Europeans and South Americans alike, obviously to varying degrees.
Read more: http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/710588/North-American-Star-League-Exclusive-Interview-with-Geoff-iNcontroL-Robinson.html#ixzz1EeKNPbpI"
My bad. Please continue!
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On February 22 2011 11:04 Fanciful wrote:
"But it's definitely a grass roots effort in the sense that we're not hiring out, we're not getting crews to come in here. We're definitely getting trained by professionals but I mean it's gonna be run by Andre (Gretorp) and myself, Russ, Duncan, and the varying people surrounding GosuCoaching and our friends that kind of came together and helped put this together."
I don't understand why more of the TL community cannot be involved. There are many talented people in this community that would willingly work for free solely to see Starcraft 2 take off as a profitable esport. I understand that the budget is small but that doesn't mean the production value has to suffer. Why not ask for help?
running a nightly show, 3 hours a day for 25 weeks is going to be brutal unless you have a decent sized crew. I love the ambition and so does everyone else, you guys should have some sort of rush night.
What is the harm is asking?
Well, a lot of it is in the name of reliability, efficiency, and return on investment. Essentially image in hte business world. They don't want to fund a corporation dependent on unpaid volunteers.
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On February 22 2011 11:06 ReachTheSky wrote:
This is a north american starleague.......can't we just keep this to north americans? ><
If it was purely north americans the quality of the competition would be much lower. I think most starcraft fans want to see the best of the best like NASL has been hyping.
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kinda lame.
It favours the pros and the nobodys continue to stay nobodys.
1 invite for a 1000+ players tournament if i read correctly? Thats a total crapshoot just about.
It should be a little bit like poker where anyone can enter.
Then we would have more Chris "the money maker"
but if you arnt on a team you cant play? Seems a little biased, just because someone isnt on a team does not mean theyre not good.
its still an amazing thing for the game, but they would profit more I believe if it wasa little bit like poker, just a thought...
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On February 22 2011 11:01 Babaganoush wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 10:58 Pervect wrote:On February 22 2011 10:57 Serpico wrote:On February 22 2011 10:53 Babaganoush wrote:
I'm curious as to why you will not allow individuals to participate in your league, meaning individuals without a team. Trying to filter out people like PiqLiq or something? lol. hot lava flows. I'm creating a company called Hot Lava Flow for the sole purpose of sponsoring PiQLiQ and sending him to NASL. Is this some sort of inside joke?
It was from the Intellectual Discourse and Humour Hour on Geoff Robinson's stream. Mr. Fields and Mr. McDaniels joined Mr. Robinson for a round table to discuss the subtle nuances and delicacies of professional e-sports in relation to the current events surround the GSL Code A and the nature of personalities Mr. Fields can expect to cavort with upon his initiation into the North American Ladder of Starcraft2: Wings of Liberty.
This was in reference to a humorous statement made by Mr.Robinson based on his extensive research and experience within the aforementioned system.
Have I adequately supplied you with a sufficient retort or shall I expound upon the events of the evening in greater detail?
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On February 22 2011 11:03 orotoss wrote:
I don't see why it's not just an open tournament with qualifiers. If the pros we love are really that good, then they will make it to the top. If there are some unknowns out there who could crush idra and huk, well I wanna watch those guys. The popularity system goes against everything that Starcraft is about. This is a COMPETITIVE e-sport, not a popularity contest.
I understand that they want the games to be entertaining, but people are impressed by the skills of the players, not their names. People wanna watch Jinro because he is awesome at Starcraft 2, and we would be even more entertained by someone who is better.
I have a problem with what you wrote. Of course I only want to see top level play. I personally like this system because it keeps cheesy 1 build gimmicky players out, and consistent, top players in. Do you enjoy watching BitByBit and Rain play? I do enjoy watching cheese sometimes. But when a players primary strategy is abusing an op strat. Than I dont want to see them play. Wether or not they can crush Idra or HuK with that strat.
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As much as i would love Koreans to be fully represented in NASL, we have to be realistic. It's like flooding the American Soccer League with European players (or the European basketball league with NBA players.). Not every league has to be fully international, that's what the Olympics and World Cup is for.
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On February 22 2011 11:06 ReachTheSky wrote:
This is a north american starleague.......can't we just keep this to north americans? ><
Yeah let's remove everyone who is not american NBA as well, seems reasonable.
Also make a african american player limit because they are quite good.
The korean cap is being discussed, it's not final, that's what I heard.
I hope NASL does well, and display better macro maps and etc.
Hopes for best SC outside korea.
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On February 22 2011 10:50 antilyon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 10:43 Pinith wrote:
I really think they'd stand to make as much money and satisfy a lot more viewers with a lower premium price, I'm not sure I'm down with $25 a season compared to $10 for a GSL season NASL season will be 14 weeks, also, it will be 3 HOURS per day 5 DAYS per WEEK. it seems pretty reasonable
Plus on the first page, on the first post, it says that the NASL is going for around 25 games PER WEEK!
I would say $20-$25 for a season ticket is a ok deal. Now if NASL is not able to have 25 games a week on a regular basis for a season. Then $25 is too high and should be lower, it all depends on the amount of content delivered. But for now I would say the Premium ticket is not too high so long as NASL can live up to the high standards that they've currently set.
I do However believe the $10-$15 would be a lot more attractive.
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i'm waiting for EuropeStarcraftLeague
but how they wanna administrate and keep the prizepool so high?
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imo all players should have to go through qualifiers like TSL with tl opens and GSL, and the only seeded players would be from previous season rankings.
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Only 5 Korean can apply? Why is this? I don't think the tournament should limit the amount of players based on nationality.
Edit: I understand this is the North American Star League, but still =(.
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I think rules like the 5 man rule are something thats more just for the first season like Inc said in the interview players from the open are being auto birthed into the next season. I'm sure there will be some kind of system (similar to the up/down matches) that decides who stays and who goes season to season, I also don't see them saying well you had 5 guys who all did well but you have a 6th that got auto birthed so one of you has to go. Also to the guy that said he said he supported the korean cap because it needs to have an american focus then went on to say liquid is the only team to have more than 5 world class players, you do realize a majority of those team members aren't from north america, so that goes against your american focus. That all being said I can't wait to find out who's coming to season 1 and I can't wait for it to start
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I don't see why it's not just an open tournament with qualifiers. If the pros we love are really that good, then they will make it to the top. If there are some unknowns out there who could crush idra and huk, well I wanna watch those guys. The popularity system goes against everything that Starcraft is about. This is a COMPETITIVE e-sport, not a popularity contest.
I understand that they want the games to be entertaining, but people are impressed by the skills of the players, not their names. People wanna watch Jinro because he is awesome at Starcraft 2, and we would be even more entertained by someone who is better.
I don't wanna watch some random unknown players win this cash. I only wanna see the well-known pros play. I am a fan of those people already so I would have nobody to cheer on if they made it an open tournament. And who wants to see a bunch of the same teammates? Even if you are 6th best on rootgaming and are better than the 1st best on EG, you still don't deserve to play in the tourny. We want variety and we want celebrities, not just "whomever has the most skill wins."
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On February 22 2011 11:02 hmunkey wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 10:34 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I don't get the maximum 5 players per team thing wouldn't mind hearing more on it. I can think of maybe 2-3 teams who can line up 6 players that can all make a deep run in such a tournament. This whole rule seems to have a rather small impact on the tournament but it badly hurts a few individual players, and I don't see the gain in removing 2 world class players from your tournament because they share a team tag with 5 others. If they're good enough they're good enough.
Probably missing something about this rule but can't figure out what. Can't wait for additional information to come out. This is pretty significant. Look, we all know teams like Liquid have more than 5 players who could easily make it to the top given a proper qualification procedure and it seems unfair to prevent them from competing, especially because those spots will be given to players on teams like VT and whatnot (who are comparatively terrible, sorry).
Yeah, I agree, it seem to fight one of the hurdles western esport have - the solid team practice houses, why join a team as the 7th player if you can't participate in the greatest tournament in NA...
On a side note I feel like (quite arbitrarily) korea is already running forward quicker (skill-wise) than foreign sc2 because of their practice regiment, liquid guys in korea are the exception... and hopefully eg-house will produce a skill increase
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On February 22 2011 11:07 mango_destroyer wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 11:06 ReachTheSky wrote:
This is a north american starleague.......can't we just keep this to north americans? >< If it was purely north americans the quality of the competition would be much lower. I think most starcraft fans want to see the best of the best like NASL has been hyping.
I dont think the competition would be MUCH lower. No GSL though but yeah instead of having the mindset of korea> rest of the world in sc2 we need 2 make it a global even thing. So excluding everything but north americans would be the dumbest move they could do
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On February 22 2011 11:09 Brad wrote:
As much as i would love Koreans to be fully represented in NASL, we have to be realistic. It's like flooding the American Soccer League with European players (or the European basketball league with NBA players.). Not every league has to be fully international, that's what the Olympics and World Cup is for.
Well the problem is we don't really have the "olympics" of Starcraft 2, Korea has GSL, US has NASL. Europe has a few small tournies. I guess there is IEM but i would love to have a fully international league.
But it really seems with all this springing up we are definetely headed towards being able to crown a true world champion, and i'm sure a league will come up to support that.
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so guys for when a NASTL north american starcraft team league xP
i would love to see team leagues in all continents and then a tournament with all the the winner teams of each continent now that would be Epic
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On February 22 2011 11:03 Oxb wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 10:49 ithree wrote:On February 22 2011 10:42 Karthane wrote:
I'm still a little baffled. Where the hell are they getting 400,000 dollars?? Theres been no mention of sponsors so all thats left is the Paid HD stream and they even talk about making money in the interview so I'm not sure what their expecting.. Can't imagine Justin.tv putting money into ontop of providing the stream and laying fiber, but maybe. Still don't understand where incontrol is, I mean he's already closed a thread (about Huks Twitter) so not he's off the grid, the stream was (mostly) pre-recorded so theres no big stress to relieve, there isnt even an official thread so everyone's all of the place. Anyway thanks motbob ofr making something semi-offical Blizzard is sponsoring/insured the money. No mention of sponsors yet*, Some buisiness guy is basically backing this since he saw a 'nice buisiness'. If you want to start a store you get a good buisiness plan and go to a bank, there's ur money. Justin.tv had 20k viewers during the announcement so say about 1/4 of that will pay for a season ticket. 5k *20$ = 100.000 :o prize money reimbursed. Looking how the votes are running and how hyped this all is there will definitely be some sponsors, intel and razer are always/everywhere sponsoring e-sport events. If the first weeks show promising I think sponsors will come in for the lans. Then there's a bunch of people who are going to watch the free stream, what about you pop an add or 2 between the games, 10k viewers on the free streams, 0.02$ add/viewers = 200$ per advertisement. they are talking about 3hours of games, so I guess that's like 5 or 6games a night? That's another 1000$ profit from advertisements alone, every night. Yes these are very speculative number but looking just at season tickets (if it takes off a bit decently) and advertisements they already got a huge sum covered, and then there is sponsorship. So it's definitely possible to make this very proffitable.
Hearing that that was 20k people on JTV makes me very happy because I had next to no lag. I only had a couple of spots where I got hit and my Internet sucks a lot. Being able to choose quality on top of the excellent attention JTV is giving all of this gives me high hopes for stability in the future. It's honestly hard for me to choose a non-JTV stream now because I know that I'll be stuck with a higher quality one that will stutter for me (e.g., the iCCup.TV one right now that is putting Startale on new ICCup maps -- fairly unwatchable for me).
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On February 22 2011 10:36 FeeL_ThE_RusH wrote:I'd love to see Diggity & Moletrap get in on the casting action. Though it's only a dream, breaking Cholera and Klazart out of retirement would be freakin glorious too
I miss Cholera so much <3
OP is sooo important, thanks so much for the information, motbob!
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On February 22 2011 11:13 Karthane wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 11:09 Brad wrote:
As much as i would love Koreans to be fully represented in NASL, we have to be realistic. It's like flooding the American Soccer League with European players (or the European basketball league with NBA players.). Not every league has to be fully international, that's what the Olympics and World Cup is for. Well the problem is we don't really have the "olympics" of Starcraft 2, Korea has GSL, US has NASL. Europe has a few small tournies. I guess there is IEM but i would love to have a fully international league. But it really seems with all this springing up we are definetely headed towards being able to crown a true world champion, and i'm sure a league will come up to support that.
Yeah, I agree. I want that as much as anyone. You could probably fill 30+ spots with just Koreans based on skill level, but does that help eSports in the West? I don't think it would. It's nice to have alot of Western talent eventhough the skill level won't be as high to start, but it will grow exponentially because of the fierce competition.
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I hope iNcontroL brings klazart on for some commentary.
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On February 22 2011 10:34 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I don't get the maximum 5 players per team thing wouldn't mind hearing more on it. I can think of maybe 2-3 teams who can line up 6 players that can all make a deep run in such a tournament. This whole rule seems to have a rather small impact on the tournament but it badly hurts a few individual players, and I don't see the gain in removing 2 world class players from your tournament because they share a team tag with 5 others. If they're good enough they're good enough. Probably missing something about this rule but can't figure out what. Can't wait for additional information to come out. Editing this in: On February 22 2011 10:44 Nevy wrote:
They're making it so people from the same team won't face each other early on. That might be part of the reason why.
I assume they try to avoid team battles to do the teams a favor. Excluding one of the players is not doing any team a favor so it's hard to imagine that being the reason. Maybe it's that players of a single team often have similar fans and you want to reach out to the various groups of fans. If there were a couple teams each dominating the scene with a lineup of 10 players then maybe that would lead to less viewers. Realistically however that rule will benefit the tournament way too sporadically compared to the harm it causes.
Yeah, maybe what is being said is teams can nominate up to 5 players and if the team have more than 5 players wanting a spot the excluded player could qualify on their own through the open tournament, of course i'm just speculating here based on the following quote:
"There will also be an open tournament that anyone can enter to determine who advances to one of the spots in the final sixteen."
edit. added spoiler
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As mentioned by Nazgul, 5 players per team seems like an odd format, if we take for example Team Liquid, they have a stacked team of tremendous players, so will someone like Haypro who is clearly a great player but is often overshadowed by his monstrous teammates gonna have to compete for the right to be one of the 5? Seems kinda lame since we dont get to see some of these players in the first place so they don't have the opportunity to shine as much.
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On February 22 2011 10:27 motbob wrote:Show nested quote +...every player is supposed to be backed by a $250 refundable fee. Essentially what it is, is every time they're rude or they're late or any kind of unforeseeable problems occur they'll be penalized $25 or $50 and that comes out of the refundable fee of course. But most people, hopefully all, will be completely and immaculately fine and will get that $250 back. But the idea is to make them accountable.
I predict hilarity on this account. Even ignoring the fact that a teammate of IdrA is the arbiter of BM, the minute someone does or does not get financially penalized for something, there'll be a 50 page flamewar (which may be the point).
Would HuK be fined for being "such a little idiot" last night? Would Losira and Bomber get fined for the greatest game of all time? If IdrA loses to a strategy, and then publically declares it imbalanced, is that a fine for demeaning his opponent's win?
Yes OR no answers will lead to massive flamewars.
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I think those of you who are posting about "anyone" not being able to make it into the tournament are kind of in the wrong. "Anyone" can join smaller tournaments and work their way up through the ranks, fame, etc. This is the fucking NA STAR League. Not the "random kid from ladder" league.
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I can't wait to start watching.
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On February 22 2011 11:08 DyEnasTy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 11:03 orotoss wrote:
I don't see why it's not just an open tournament with qualifiers. If the pros we love are really that good, then they will make it to the top. If there are some unknowns out there who could crush idra and huk, well I wanna watch those guys. The popularity system goes against everything that Starcraft is about. This is a COMPETITIVE e-sport, not a popularity contest.
I understand that they want the games to be entertaining, but people are impressed by the skills of the players, not their names. People wanna watch Jinro because he is awesome at Starcraft 2, and we would be even more entertained by someone who is better. I have a problem with what you wrote. Of course I only want to see top level play. I personally like this system because it keeps cheesy 1 build gimmicky players out, and consistent, top players in. Do you enjoy watching BitByBit and Rain play? I do enjoy watching cheese sometimes. But when a players primary strategy is abusing an op strat. Than I dont want to see them play. Wether or not they can crush Idra or HuK with that strat.
Starcraft should be considered a purely competitive sport. Do whatever it takes to win. If you become first in the world because you rock at cheesy strats, then you are pretty damn good at Starcraft. It is no different than chess or poker. You wouldn't exclude players from tournaments because they have abusive strategies. The whole point of competitive sports is to abuse the restrictions imposed on you. If players begin to really abuse certain strategies and cheese becomes more prevalent, that will only incite Blizzard to make balance changes. Blizzard wants the game to be entertaining for everyone. By hiding these builds away from the public image of the game, we are only preventing those imbalances from being fixed. If the NASL were an open tournament, we would have a "broodwar balanced" game in no time, rather than several years.
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On February 22 2011 11:17 Ribbon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 10:27 motbob wrote:...every player is supposed to be backed by a $250 refundable fee. Essentially what it is, is every time they're rude or they're late or any kind of unforeseeable problems occur they'll be penalized $25 or $50 and that comes out of the refundable fee of course. But most people, hopefully all, will be completely and immaculately fine and will get that $250 back. But the idea is to make them accountable. I predict hilarity on this account. Even ignoring the fact that a teammate of IdrA is the arbiter of BM, the minute someone does or does not get financially penalized for something, there'll be a 50 page flamewar (which may be the point). Would HuK be fined for being "such a little idiot" last night? Would Losira and Bomber get fined for the greatest game of all time? If IdrA loses to a strategy, and then publically declares it imbalanced, is that a fine for demeaning his opponent's win? Yes OR no answers will lead to massive flamewars.
I feel like this is more of a hedge against the risks of hosting a big tournament like this online. There has to be some kind of penalty if someone like pre-GM Naniwa just doesn't show up, or it really harms the credibility of the tournament as a StarLeague.
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On February 22 2011 11:17 Ribbon wrote:
Would HuK be fined for being "such a little idiot" last night? Would Losira and Bomber get fined for the greatest game of all time? If IdrA loses to a strategy, and then publically declares it imbalanced, is that a fine for demeaning his opponent's win?
Yes OR no answers will lead to massive flamewars.
no... they aren't going to fine them for being BM. They will probably fine them if say, hypothetically, huk curses at an admin repeatedly. It's just an incentive to show up essentially.
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really excited about this
//tx
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I really don't understand the "many" teams with 6 top tier players that can join the NASL. There's really only a couple, and between them there's going to be people who aren't going to make it. All the Liquid guys in Korea aren't going to be able to play because of latency, the European teams are going to have trouble committing to a LA based LAN.
In my opinion the team this hurts the most is EG, maybe ROOT. Everyone else doesn't have much of a leg to stand on.
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On February 22 2011 11:18 NexaS wrote:
I think those of you who are posting about "anyone" not being able to make it into the tournament are kind of in the wrong. "Anyone" can join smaller tournaments and work their way up through the ranks, fame, etc. This is the fucking NA STAR League. Not the "random kid from ladder" league.
The problem isn't that it's limited - it's that membership in "a team" is not a good way to limit it. I really think being top 200 on the ladder in order to try to qualify is a good way to do it. Really, anything that's well-defined and attainable by someone who actually was good enough to be in the league would be fine.
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On February 22 2011 11:13 Karthane wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 11:09 Brad wrote:
As much as i would love Koreans to be fully represented in NASL, we have to be realistic. It's like flooding the American Soccer League with European players (or the European basketball league with NBA players.). Not every league has to be fully international, that's what the Olympics and World Cup is for. Well the problem is we don't really have the "olympics" of Starcraft 2, Korea has GSL, US has NASL. Europe has a few small tournies. I guess there is IEM but i would love to have a fully international league. But it really seems with all this springing up we are definetely headed towards being able to crown a true world champion, and i'm sure a league will come up to support that.
SC2 has been out for 7months now? or 8? Not even a year, WCG and ESWC, the general gaming Olympics are yet to come yet you're saying there is no Olympics. (Yes SC2 isn't in the official game line up yet but I'd be pretty damn stupid of 'm to not put it in). Or did you expect to have an SC2 Olympics within the first 5 months of the games release, that would be a bit dull imo. Something as a 'world championship' should be a 1 year or 2/3/4 year thing. You can't go throw around that title, it'll lose all it's value.
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I'm pretty against the team limit thing. Now, I totally understand the aid against team kills and the reasoning of wanting more teams, but let me try and lay this out.
1) Powerhouse teams. Like TL, some teams have some real all-star lineups. You can't just go up to the Lakers and say, "Guys, you're going to have to bench everyone on your starting line except for Bryant and Gasol." This could also have the unfortunate prospect of breaking up teams. That's an incredibly scary and awful consequence. Maybe you could say that putting in more than five allows team kills but just say that they are guaranteed to be spread out among all the divisions (i.e., you spread them as if there were only five and then start adding on. Never have something like 3-1-1-1-1, but 2-2-1-1-1 is okay).
2) These are really long seasons. You're automatically keeping some awesome players out of the running for a third of the year. Essentially, each team would have to put people on the bench each season or just perpetually stonewall a couple of players and never let them go on because they're just a little bit below the other players. Considering how awful this is for those players we would be going back to that "team breakup" scenario that I mentioned before.
I realize that some of these are worst case scenarios. However, I also feel like there are some really legitimate concerns in there and am sure that at least one of those really bad things will come to pass. I realize this is a league that hasn't even started yet, but that's just more incentive for us to help you guys get ideas and work it out now. At least with all of this (hopefully constructive) criticism you will have some solid ideas to fall back on if season one is a little rocky.
Good luck with your continued preparations and thank you for working so hard on this for us all! I'm so excited for this (DAILY STARCRAFT!!!)!
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On February 22 2011 11:07 Froadac wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 11:04 Fanciful wrote:
"But it's definitely a grass roots effort in the sense that we're not hiring out, we're not getting crews to come in here. We're definitely getting trained by professionals but I mean it's gonna be run by Andre (Gretorp) and myself, Russ, Duncan, and the varying people surrounding GosuCoaching and our friends that kind of came together and helped put this together."
I don't understand why more of the TL community cannot be involved. There are many talented people in this community that would willingly work for free solely to see Starcraft 2 take off as a profitable esport. I understand that the budget is small but that doesn't mean the production value has to suffer. Why not ask for help?
running a nightly show, 3 hours a day for 25 weeks is going to be brutal unless you have a decent sized crew. I love the ambition and so does everyone else, you guys should have some sort of rush night.
What is the harm is asking? Well, a lot of it is in the name of reliability, efficiency, and return on investment. Essentially image in hte business world. They don't want to fund a corporation dependent on unpaid volunteers.
Did you see the "pilot" tonight? I have seen shows on my college station with a much higher production value and those are run entirely by volunteerism.
As of right now, the NASL has no "name for itself" The NASL as a brand will be distilled during the first season through reliability, quality and interest. If the NASL fails to gain momentum we may not see anyone else brave enough to take this kind of risk for a while. The GSL works because the OSL worked before it. The SK culture is interested in seeing starcraft as a spectacle. There are no predecessors in American culture. You can argue that MLG has had success but even they can not pull enough interest to sustain starcraft alone.
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On February 22 2011 10:43 Pinith wrote:
I really think they'd stand to make as much money and satisfy a lot more viewers with a lower premium price, I'm not sure I'm down with $25 a season compared to $10 for a GSL season
25$ for 3 months as compared to 10$ for 1 month, hrmmm. Sounds like a great deal for fans to me, AND you get ESPORTS dollars at a 1:1 ratio when the currency goes live.
+ Show Spoiler +uNcontroLable will guarantee them, I'm sure
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On February 22 2011 11:21 Oxb wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 11:13 Karthane wrote:On February 22 2011 11:09 Brad wrote:
As much as i would love Koreans to be fully represented in NASL, we have to be realistic. It's like flooding the American Soccer League with European players (or the European basketball league with NBA players.). Not every league has to be fully international, that's what the Olympics and World Cup is for. Well the problem is we don't really have the "olympics" of Starcraft 2, Korea has GSL, US has NASL. Europe has a few small tournies. I guess there is IEM but i would love to have a fully international league. But it really seems with all this springing up we are definetely headed towards being able to crown a true world champion, and i'm sure a league will come up to support that. SC2 has been out for 7months now? or 8? Not even a year, WCG and ESWC, the general gaming Olympics are yet to come yet you're saying there is no Olympics. (Yes SC2 isn't in the official game line up yet but I'd be pretty damn stupid of 'm to not put it in). Or did you expect to have an SC2 Olympics within the first 5 months of the games release, that would be a bit dull imo. Something as a 'world championship' should be a 1 year or 2/3/4 year thing. You can't go throw around that title, it'll lose all it's value.
...Which is exactly what my post was saying. I said we don't have an "olympics" yet but we are definitely growing towards it.
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The rules sound weird. I hope it's successful but I foresee it being a bit more amateurishly executed than IEM or MLG.
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I think this is a great opportunity for E-Sports in west and can only add to it's popularity. All of these matches are going to be during the week, that still leaves the regular LAN or online weekend tournament available for pro and non-pro gamers alike.
I think a lot of people are not really dealing well with the idea of a no-name coming in and winning something. I find it exhilarating learning who the hot rookie is and seeing if he can come through. You have to remember, people like Michael Jordan, Tom Brady, Lou Gherig, Fruit Dealer all used to be nobodies. 1 of 1000 and then takes the money? I wanna know who THAT guy is. Hell after winning a field of 1000, that's good enough for me.
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Awesome stuff, really!
correct me if i'm wrong though, but the 5-8pm PST conflicts with the day9 daily on everyday 'cept sunday? That's a sad little tidbit if it does. Still awesome news though
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So... I've been hearing the hype about all this for months- and I watched the showmatch today, waited for the announcement- heard about the site and looked up all the whois info on it and whatnot- and saw the countdown timer on the page which immediately started redirecting to iNcontroL's stream once the timer hit 0...
My only question is- why can't I access the site at all? It's as if I've been blindly ip blocked from it or something; as all my friends can see it, but everytime I try to go to it I just drop every single packet and it says I timed out. I don't want to believe it is on my end, as I've gone through all the steps to make sure it isn't aside from calling AT&T and verifying that the DNS isn't blocked by AT&T... even the down for everyone or just me says it is up =0\
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I think its great that they are going to try and keep the different leagues and tourneys from overlapping. I greatly appreciate it!
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I would hope that in the future, there will be some qualification process to get into the tournament (e.g. the GSL code S/A system) rather than just open invites. Don't like the limit to 5 per team though.
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On February 22 2011 10:40 DeltruS wrote:
I really like how involved justin.tv is in this. How many viewers did we have for the showmatch? 20k? I also really like how fast Justin.tv gets vods up, and their quality. I know some people who hate the GSL stream because of it's low quality, but that doesn't sound like it is going to be a problem for anybody.
Actually it was about 35k simultaneous viewers At one point Justin.tv had to make a switch on their servers to load balance Europe and when that happened we lost numbers on the EU viewers, so that 20k you saw was just outside of EU. We had 35k simultaneous viewers and WELL over 1 million views total for the stream.
It's Coming....
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While the Showmatch was great, and I think NASL will be monumental success. It would of been nicer to see some better production for the Showmatch. A lot of the art and overlays looked they had been made in MS Paint, and the Studio setup was pretty bland compared to quite a few of the previous SC2 events.
I understand the Showmatch has nothing to do with NASL and it's future, but it was a first impression per se for quite a few people.
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On February 22 2011 11:19 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 11:17 Ribbon wrote:On February 22 2011 10:27 motbob wrote:...every player is supposed to be backed by a $250 refundable fee. Essentially what it is, is every time they're rude or they're late or any kind of unforeseeable problems occur they'll be penalized $25 or $50 and that comes out of the refundable fee of course. But most people, hopefully all, will be completely and immaculately fine and will get that $250 back. But the idea is to make them accountable. I predict hilarity on this account. Even ignoring the fact that a teammate of IdrA is the arbiter of BM, the minute someone does or does not get financially penalized for something, there'll be a 50 page flamewar (which may be the point). Would HuK be fined for being "such a little idiot" last night? Would Losira and Bomber get fined for the greatest game of all time? If IdrA loses to a strategy, and then publically declares it imbalanced, is that a fine for demeaning his opponent's win? Yes OR no answers will lead to massive flamewars. I feel like this is more of a hedge against the risks of hosting a big tournament like this online. There has to be some kind of penalty if someone like pre-GM Naniwa just doesn't show up, or it really harms the credibility of the tournament as a StarLeague.
I'd like InControl to quantify what he considers "rude"
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On February 22 2011 11:22 Char711 wrote:
1) It caps the number of teams. There are more and more legit teams out there that have some great players (e.g., Prae with first Thorzain and then Nightend) and this would be saying that you can only have a certain amount of teams from each region. In the future this could hurt. It should be okay for now, though.
This doesn't seem to make much sense. I don't see how capping the number of player per team caps the number of teams; if anything it's the exact opposite.
If you let teams have as many players as they want, the theorical worst case would be a single team with 50 players. If you cap to 5 players per team, the theorical worst case would be 10 teams with 5 players each, which would be an improvement if your goal is to have more teams for different regions.
I expect most teams will not have 5 players, but you can certainly expect powerhouses like Liquid to field a full team.
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as far as the Team Limit is concerned since everyone is making GSL comparisons
the team breakdown for this season of GSL codes A and S are:
+ Show Spoiler +IM---4
SlayerS---5
Star Tale---7
Prime---7
TLAF-Liquid---4
TST---1
ZeNEX---5
FOX---2
fOu---4
oGs---11
MVP---1
Zenith---2
NsP---1
TSL---6
total---64
unknown---4
taken from GOMTV
the unknown teams are for players that had tags that i could not identify or no tags (to my understanding) or no tag associated with any team already listed (including idra's withdrawl accounting for an unknown player)
there are only 4 teams with more than 5 players with oGs in the lead with 11 total
a total of 64 players in both classes combined
if we make it a 50 player tournament with the 5 player to a team rule then ST and Prime only lose 2 players, TSL loses 1, and oGs loses 6
then add 1 player to any team with players less than 5
doesn't seem so bad a rule IMO
plus this is just the beginning....who is to say this limit can't or won't be adjusted as league popularity and success grows
i just don't think there are many teams at the moment( in NA or EU) with AAA players on the roster greater than 5
maybe i'm totally off-base with all this, but as i see it now...it's not that big of an issue
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Inviting a player like Piqliq will be good for SC2 in the long run. If he is only rocking cheese rushes then we will see 9 different star players develop strategies to counter early aggressiveness. I'm sure we will see some proper counters to early aggressiveness. And once the cheeses counters are "figured out" we will get much MUCH more macro games. I say let him play :D.
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Populating the league initially could be a huge mess, just look at GSL. They had those 3 tournaments in 2010 to fill out the field and plenty of guys that made the top 64 cut were clearly not that great or fun to watch. I'm fine with the initial field being filled out by some non-transparent method that gives us 50 interesting and exciting players with a balance of teams. Then later on they can disclose how you get into the league (I'm thinking top 10 in 16th spot tournament play vs last place in each league or something).
Super exciting development, especially psyched it is in the LA area with a chance of some live attendance.
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This looks so awesome I'm really looking forward to this. I hope the array of casters will be good and since the tournament is in very capable hands I'm not really worried about it.
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The logic of, we're helping teams out by preventing team-kills, by not allowing more than 5 members per team...
As in, we're hurting them to help them
However, don't want to sound ungrateful.... BECAUSE THIS IS GONNA BE AWESOME
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I haven't seen this addressed anywhere, so I'm just wondering in case I want to buy the premium stream:
Are the games going to cast live, or will they be pre-recorded?
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On February 22 2011 11:32 Kazzabiss wrote:
The logic of, we're helping teams out by preventing team-kills, by not allowing more than 5 members per team...
As in, we're hurting them to help them
That isn't the reason. The main reason is because they want to get more teams in or at least thats what I got from INcontrol's reply to Nazgul. (i.e they don't want 3 teams with 10 reps each to take up all the slots).
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On February 22 2011 11:31 Shinobi1982 wrote:
Inviting a player like Piqliq will be good for SC2 in the long run. If he is only rocking cheese rushes then we will see 9 different star players develop strategies to counter early aggressiveness. I'm sure we will see some proper counters to early aggressiveness. And once the cheeses counters are "figured out" we will get much MUCH more macro games. I say let him play :D.
Agreed. If he gets beat, then everyone will learn some ways to beat the best cheeses, and if he wins, Blizzard might say, "we don't want a game where you can exploit super early rushes to win," and they will balance accordingly. This is how broodwar became the perfectly balanced game it is today.
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On February 22 2011 11:33 applejuice wrote:
I haven't seen this addressed anywhere, so I'm just wondering in case I want to buy the premium stream:
Are the games going to cast live, or will they be pre-recorded?
iNcontroL mentioned that the games would be cast live.
source:
On February 22 2011 10:07 iNcontroL wrote:
when we do the league matches will be played and casted LIVE
the issues of tonight will not be repeated for those reasons among others.
Please just be happy.. this is awesome
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On February 22 2011 11:33 applejuice wrote:
I haven't seen this addressed anywhere, so I'm just wondering in case I want to buy the premium stream:
Are the games going to cast live, or will they be pre-recorded?
A replay overlayed on top of a pre-recorded cast of a de-synced replay.
He said live, 3 hours a night, 5 days a week in the interview.
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The whole 1 team member per group is create drama and hype within the NASL, there isn't much hype in knocking out a teammate. From what I've heard, iNcontroL is a massive advocate of creating back-story, drama, hype in a tournament. Hopefully this system will provide that; with a few tweaks of course.
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On February 22 2011 11:25 Gofarman wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 10:43 Pinith wrote:
I really think they'd stand to make as much money and satisfy a lot more viewers with a lower premium price, I'm not sure I'm down with $25 a season compared to $10 for a GSL season 25$ for 3 months as compared to 10$ for 1 month, hrmmm. Sounds like a great deal for fans to me, AND you get ESPORTS dollars at a 1:1 ratio when the currency goes live. + Show Spoiler +uNcontroLable will guarantee them, I'm sure
That's not the point, just because you have more games in the early round doesn't mean you can charge more. Considering how awful GSL Ro64 or Code A games are do you really think that a group of 50 non-Koreans will play better?
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On February 22 2011 11:29 Thrax wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 11:22 Char711 wrote:
1) It caps the number of teams. There are more and more legit teams out there that have some great players (e.g., Prae with first Thorzain and then Nightend) and this would be saying that you can only have a certain amount of teams from each region. In the future this could hurt. It should be okay for now, though.
This doesn't seem to make much sense. I don't see how capping the number of player per team caps the number of teams; if anything it's the exact opposite. If you let teams have as many players as they want, the theorical worst case would be a single team with 50 players. If you cap to 5 players per team, the theorical worst case would be 10 teams with 5 players each, which would be an improvement if your goal is to have more teams for different regions. I expect most teams will not have 5 players, but you can certainly expect powerhouses like Liquid to field a full team.
Sorry, that was worded incredibly poorly -- my bad. I'll try to think of how to restate it. I'll take the original out of my post to alleviate confusion.
Thanks for pointing that out. I haven't been proof reading my posts very rigorously lately.
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This could be great if they increased the production value.
In one day, anyone could make that intro video with basic software and google.
I would think that after that much hype, they would try to get some professional-grade promo videos and webpages.
I have confidence though, that with that much money on the line, they'll pull their socks up and deliver an amazing and well thought out experience to viewers and competitors alike!
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What does it mean by, April 5th - July sometime?
Is that just the first season? or is that entire run of NASL this year?
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On February 22 2011 10:32 tok wrote:
GSTL was a bit of a snoozefest.
You must be impossible to please.
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On February 22 2011 11:35 jalstar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 11:25 Gofarman wrote:On February 22 2011 10:43 Pinith wrote:
I really think they'd stand to make as much money and satisfy a lot more viewers with a lower premium price, I'm not sure I'm down with $25 a season compared to $10 for a GSL season 25$ for 3 months as compared to 10$ for 1 month, hrmmm. Sounds like a great deal for fans to me, AND you get ESPORTS dollars at a 1:1 ratio when the currency goes live. + Show Spoiler +uNcontroLable will guarantee them, I'm sure That's not the point, just because you have more games in the early round doesn't mean you can charge more. Considering how awful GSL Ro64 or Code A games are do you really think that a group of 50 non-Koreans will play better?
i really enjoyed tourneys like screddit invitational, root invitational, assembly... and they're all foreigners isn't?
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i seriously don't get the fact you need to be on a team, a lot of the koreans got their start without a team, what's the rational for that decision
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Well this sounds fantastic. The only downside for me is going to be that there aren't enough hours in the day to watch GSL, NASL, and MLB this summer. :-)
The "max 5 players per team" thing seems to be getting a lot of discussion, and I wanted to add one thought of the "unintended side effects" variety. I think this rule will make it difficult for teams to field more than 5 top-tier players. The reason for this being that if you're, say, the 6th best player on team WINERZ, you don't get to play in the biggest NA tournament. Sure, you've got good sponsorship, and you're teammates are great practice partners who help you have good showings at MLG, etc. But you don't get the exposure/fame/potential prizes in playing in NASL. Therefore, it makes sense for you to switch to some other team (call them LOOZER) who perhaps only has 3 players in the NASL. Your sponsorship may be less good, your support of lower quality, and perhaps you don't do as well in MLG next season. But you get to play in NASL, and that's so important it's worth ignoring the rest.
Now, there are some assumptions embedded in the above analysis (primarily that NASL becomes so big that people care about playing in it more than what team they play for, but also that there are teams out there with 6+ players in the top 50), but I think it makes sense. And I don't think creating an environment where teams can't really support more than 5 "top level" players at a time is a good idea. Moreover, managers shouldn't be forced to make decisions over which player gets to go to the NASL, which is something that can clearly have a large impact on a player's finances.
Anyhow, I hope this issue is at least considered if iNcontroL/NASL ever decide to look at this rule again.
TL;DR
The limit of 5 players per team in NASL will make it hard for teams to retain more than 5 "NASL-level" players at a time, since the 6th best will want to move somewhere where he's 4th or 5th best instead. That's bad.
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On February 22 2011 11:35 jalstar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 11:25 Gofarman wrote:On February 22 2011 10:43 Pinith wrote:
I really think they'd stand to make as much money and satisfy a lot more viewers with a lower premium price, I'm not sure I'm down with $25 a season compared to $10 for a GSL season 25$ for 3 months as compared to 10$ for 1 month, hrmmm. Sounds like a great deal for fans to me, AND you get ESPORTS dollars at a 1:1 ratio when the currency goes live. + Show Spoiler +uNcontroLable will guarantee them, I'm sure That's not the point, just because you have more games in the early round doesn't mean you can charge more. Considering how awful GSL Ro64 or Code A games are do you really think that a group of 50 non-Koreans will play better?
I agree with this statement. I most likely will not be buying premium service because of this reason.
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On February 22 2011 11:39 Coramoor wrote:
i seriously don't get the fact you need to be on a team, a lot of the koreans got their start without a team, what's the rational for that decision
Example: BoxeR got into Code S without being on a team.
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On February 22 2011 11:40 Rokusha wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 11:35 jalstar wrote:On February 22 2011 11:25 Gofarman wrote:On February 22 2011 10:43 Pinith wrote:
I really think they'd stand to make as much money and satisfy a lot more viewers with a lower premium price, I'm not sure I'm down with $25 a season compared to $10 for a GSL season 25$ for 3 months as compared to 10$ for 1 month, hrmmm. Sounds like a great deal for fans to me, AND you get ESPORTS dollars at a 1:1 ratio when the currency goes live. + Show Spoiler +uNcontroLable will guarantee them, I'm sure That's not the point, just because you have more games in the early round doesn't mean you can charge more. Considering how awful GSL Ro64 or Code A games are do you really think that a group of 50 non-Koreans will play better? I agree with this statement. I most likely will not be buying premium service because of this reason.
yes, i'd think they'd will play better if they are INVITED based on past performance if these 50 are from NA + EU
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The production should include 2 asian guys yelling about the game in a foreign language in the background.
The environment wouldn't be the same without it.
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On February 22 2011 11:17 RedHelix wrote:
As mentioned by Nazgul, 5 players per team seems like an odd format, if we take for example Team Liquid, they have a stacked team of tremendous players, so will someone like Haypro who is clearly a great player but is often overshadowed by his monstrous teammates gonna have to compete for the right to be one of the 5? Seems kinda lame since we dont get to see some of these players in the first place so they don't have the opportunity to shine as much.
Except there are arguably 50 players better than Haypro but definitely not 50 players more popular than him... because he's in Liquid. If he wasn't in Liquid there would be no argument about this, he's won 1 tournament according to TLPD (and is under 50%) and is ranked #1911 on gosugamers.. If anything this rule ensures we have a higher skilled (or accomplished) player pool where players aren't auto qualifying just because they are in a prominent clan. This hurts EG far more than Liquid as they have to give up 2-3 players, so it seems very objective.
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On February 22 2011 11:39 antilyon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 11:35 jalstar wrote:On February 22 2011 11:25 Gofarman wrote:On February 22 2011 10:43 Pinith wrote:
I really think they'd stand to make as much money and satisfy a lot more viewers with a lower premium price, I'm not sure I'm down with $25 a season compared to $10 for a GSL season 25$ for 3 months as compared to 10$ for 1 month, hrmmm. Sounds like a great deal for fans to me, AND you get ESPORTS dollars at a 1:1 ratio when the currency goes live. + Show Spoiler +uNcontroLable will guarantee them, I'm sure That's not the point, just because you have more games in the early round doesn't mean you can charge more. Considering how awful GSL Ro64 or Code A games are do you really think that a group of 50 non-Koreans will play better? i really enjoyed tourneys like screddit invitational, root invitational, assembly... and they're all foreigners isn't?
I liked the later rounds, but there's always some bad play in the early rounds. If you extend the early rounds to 9 weeks that doesn't justify a price increase.
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I don't like the fact that everyone has to be on a team, and I particularly don't like the fact that there can only be five people from every team in the tournament. That just seems so arbitrary.
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Hey iNControl this is awesome.
But you'll face shitloads of flack, whiny nerds etc. so either steel yourself and don't let it get to your or give the reins to someone who can. Just a comment on the replies when I see you pleading people do be happy; Just check out the GomTV comments/forums, its 90% trolling or whining.
Anyway I'll pay for the service, hope this turns out good. Haters gonna hate, so just do yer godamn best and give us some good games.
Also put up some official topic already and answer the misunderstandings that people go haywire about, like the "5 koreams omg?" and "5 from 1 team only!?" etc. because its painfull to see so much whine regarding something that should be celebrated.
On that note, shape up people and stop with the uneccery hating. Constructive feedback is surely something they want but alot of questions or replies are just whine or hearsay about rumours...
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On February 22 2011 11:39 Coramoor wrote:
i seriously don't get the fact you need to be on a team, a lot of the koreans got their start without a team, what's the rational for that decision
Start ur own team. Spend 15 minutes on a Wordpress blog/website. Name yourself the manager. DONE!
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On February 22 2011 11:39 Coramoor wrote:
i seriously don't get the fact you need to be on a team, a lot of the koreans got their start without a team, what's the rational for that decision
I haven't seen anything so far that indicates that players need to be on a team. If anything, they disadvantage teams by not letting them field 5 players, so they are giving a small advantage to team-less players If they do require teams, I guess you could invent your own. I've reserved the name Team Awesome.
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I am very interested to find out who the players will be.. also interested in a premium ticket!
Great job!
XD
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So is it only three seasons then it dies out?
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So here's a few things I'm assuming, and if I'm wrong I hope they do it like this.
Ok first the 50 people invited. This doesn't really fit for the first tournament but the rest should work like this:
the 15 in the grand finals tournament reinvited
top 5 places in the open get invited
10 people who are highest in popularity vote not already invited
5 people invited from Korea
5 people invited from Europe
top 10 NA ladder not already invited
so there's your 50
Now some might say "Oh no it's geared too much toward NA ladder!" But that's a good thing quite frankly, and I hope that helps raise the bar for the NA ladder skill levels. Just think of it like what the GSL has a preliminary based on foreigners plus the top 100 or whatever on their ladder.
Edit: Oh and about the limit of 5 per team, I think that's only for the division play considerations and not the Open 1000 man tournament.
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PiQLiQ is actually dropping in votes.
So is Destiny.
I think the mods of the site are checking IP addresses?
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Thinking about the team rule/korean 'rule' etc. it might not be such a bad idea. I mean they are getting a tournament started, and since the SC2 scene pretty formed by now there are some players who are noteably dominant. Inviting those players will attract the audience and the with that sponsors. Limiting the amount of players of a team also increases the variaty of players and teams.
However I think this is only good for getting underway with the first season of the league, there are many ways to get a league started and inviting people is one, though I'd say they should switch to an open tournament for the following seasons. With the top ~50 or top~100 of the open tournament being able to qualify using some up/down match format as seen in the GSL. So the top 50 of the open tournament vs the non lan-qualifiers of the invited players for example.
If they'd had to make an open qualifier like the GSL, as many people suggest, there would be a huge problem with time. The GSL takes like lan qualifiers for like a week? This also has some huge disadvantages, more in the western countries than in Korea. Most western top players have a full-time/part-time job or are full-time students. If for whatever reason (exams/work-shedule/business trip/personal life etc) they are not able to go to/play the qualifier, that is, in a way, unfair to them. Especially since this more of an EU/NA thing rather than just a NA thing. This can be solved going TSL style but it takes a damn long time, and don't we all want to see this get started? :D
It's just very difficult to make 'fair' and 'reasonable' limitations, people will always be upset about some choices but that's just the way it is. The organizers have to make the choices they think will work best in the long run.
Another thing having invites can balance the amount of T/P/Z in the tournament a lot. Everybody knows how much QQ there is about Z being UP, P late-game deathball impossible to stop etc. Using invites the tournament can have a bigger variaty of races which makes it in my opinion more interesting to watch. An open qualifier would most likely lead to a very T and P dominated tournament, as TSL open qualifier data shows.
Just wanted to add that to the discussion, having these limitations for the first tournament is not such a bad thing.
edit typo
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On February 22 2011 11:46 Slakkoo wrote:
So is it only three seasons then it dies out?
Read the OP, it clearly states what may or may not happen after 3 seasons.
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The cap on koreans might be good in the end, you're trying to grow esports in western countries and having koreans dominate it would alienate new viewers imo. May sound bad but from a business perspective it's probably smart.
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Just wanted to ask since its not a lan tournament how is cheating going tobe handled? Im guessing some sort of delayed stream but idk seems like seeing a player in a booth is the for sure way on this. Obviously logistics is a problem but maybe offer some sort of playerhousing in the future discount or free whichever.
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Is the song in the announcement video from Lord of the Rings?
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On February 22 2011 11:53 PartyBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 11:46 Slakkoo wrote:
So is it only three seasons then it dies out? Read the OP, it clearly states what may or may not happen after 3 seasons.
It's absolutely, 100% insured for 3 seasons (1 year, iirc).
Then, based on popularity and how everything is going at a later time, there will be decisions to either keep it going or stop NASL.
So everyone should support it to its fullest and stop QQing, because this could make or break e-sports in the West! <3
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On February 22 2011 11:58 BandonBanshee wrote:
I cant stop lactating
lol... I use as my sig now...
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On February 22 2011 11:39 antilyon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 11:35 jalstar wrote:On February 22 2011 11:25 Gofarman wrote:On February 22 2011 10:43 Pinith wrote:
I really think they'd stand to make as much money and satisfy a lot more viewers with a lower premium price, I'm not sure I'm down with $25 a season compared to $10 for a GSL season 25$ for 3 months as compared to 10$ for 1 month, hrmmm. Sounds like a great deal for fans to me, AND you get ESPORTS dollars at a 1:1 ratio when the currency goes live. + Show Spoiler +uNcontroLable will guarantee them, I'm sure That's not the point, just because you have more games in the early round doesn't mean you can charge more. Considering how awful GSL Ro64 or Code A games are do you really think that a group of 50 non-Koreans will play better? i really enjoyed tourneys like screddit invitational, root invitational, assembly... and they're all foreigners isn't?
If you would pay to see the tournaments you mentioned, you're probably the only one. Seriously, charging more than twice the rate of GSL is absurd. I'm going to stick with the far cheaper tournament with better players and casters.
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Does anyone know who's sponsoring all this? E-sports jesus?
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I am really excited for this. It will be nice to be able to watch a sc2 league without having to stay up way late. Huzzah for sc2 + being able to sleep!
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In my opinion this will be quite successful if they bring in Tastosis or day9. I've started to realize that casters are what makes or breaks my enjoyment of a stream. Most definitely not paying $25 to listen to incontrol and gretorp. Nothing personal against them, but they just aren't good casters.
Also, how is piqliq getting like a million votes? Did I miss something?
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On February 22 2011 11:59 OminouS wrote:
Is the song in the announcement video from Lord of the Rings?
It's a mix on it, but yes.
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On February 22 2011 10:34 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I don't get the maximum 5 players per team thing wouldn't mind hearing more on it. I can think of maybe 2-3 teams who can line up 6 players that can all make a deep run in such a tournament. This whole rule seems to have a rather small impact on the tournament but it badly hurts a few individual players, and I don't see the gain in removing 2 world class players from your tournament because they share a team tag with 5 others. If they're good enough they're good enough.
Probably missing something about this rule but can't figure out what. Can't wait for additional information to come out.
I imagine the team can have an inhouse set of matches and the losers may be able to compete in the 1,000 man tourney for the round of 16 (if they cant, well, that is a problem), and who knows it may just be in place for the first 1-3 seasons, but having notable players in that huge "side" tourney would draw more attention to it, thus having a chance at bringing new stars to the scene at an early stage. Its all just speculation at this point, and we'll all just have to see how it pans out, but I couldn't be more excited, I've been waiting for this moment since I got into gaming.
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If this tournament is full of foreign players with 3 or 4 Koreans I'll be disappointed. I want to see the best of the best.
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So will the final 16 be playing at the lan when the CODE S season finishes and gom goes on a gstl/codeA break ?
If so this will be perfect (: If not then us Australians will have 6-8 viewable hours of esports a day and none of us will ever finish education. WIN - WIN
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On February 22 2011 11:54 Serpico wrote:
The cap on koreans might be good in the end, you're trying to grow esports in western countries and having koreans dominate it would alienate new viewers imo. May sound bad but from a business perspective it's probably smart.
Why the 5 Korean cap? the GSL doesn't have a 5 non Korean cap ... sounds like they are being exclusionary .... If you want to have a world class league let everyone play, if you have 80% Koreans so be it, All I want to see is the best play, like the TSL 3 lineup its amazing, maybe i am missing something but why would people watch 2nd and 3rd tear players when they can just watch the GSL and see the best? I think the jinro vs idra match showed how Korea is still the best place to be if you want to get better.
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Awesome info, I'm curious is this means Incontrol and Gretorp are going to be stepping back from playing? I know neither of then have played a ton lately
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I did a bit of nosing through the SC2 international TLPD to take a look at how the 5 per team limit would affect teams. Based on a quick scan of elos of recognizable names, I started with an arbitrary threshold of 2100 elo, mostly as a way to stop myself from just cherrypicking names I was already familiar with. Looking at current elo rankings as a sanity check, there are 68 players with current elo > 2100, and 99 with peak elo > 2100, probably including a couple koreans from Blizzcon or similar which I was too lazy to filter out. So this seems like a reasonable (if admittedly still very arbitrary) threshold to merit consideration for inclusion. So looking at that, there are 3 teams with more than 5 players with peak elos above 2100, plus 3 honorable mentions:
Fnatic (7)
Liquid (6)
Root (6)
Honorable mentions with 5 players at 2100+ peak, plus one or more noted players from older RTSs or team leagues that haven't played enough solo tourneys to have an elo rank:
EG (5 + Grubby, Nyoken, Strifecro)
Millenium (5 + ToD)
Mouz (5 + Kolll, Dreiven)
If restricted to players currently over 2100 elo, Liquid with 6 is the only team hurt by this (again, under these admittedly extremely arbitrary standards).
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I like that gretorp will be casting. I don't see him casting much but when he does i love it.
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Seriously, charging more than twice the rate of GSL is absurd. I'm going to stick with the far cheaper tournament with better players and casters.
2.5 times the price for 3 times as much content...yes that sounds way more expensive. </endsarcasm>
stop bashing it before you even give it a chance, watch some of the games THEN decide if its worth it,
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gonna have to be an eeyore here and raise some skepticism. Prize pool should scale with how much revenue one expects to draw from the event. Where will you get the revenue in this model? Off of $25 viewing packages? Internet advertising?
I'm sure there's much more going on than I'm aware of but as an uninformed observer these are my doubts
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People don't read, do they?
The Korean limit is put into place so that...you know...people don't lag to shit. We're playing on the North American servers, considering this is a North American Star League. It's completely online until the finals, and Incontrol specifically cited lag issues when talking about the limit of Koreans in the main tournament. If a group of Koreans want to compete that didn't make it into the invites for the Open, let them jump into the qualifiers.
Are the competitors going to be pulled from all over the world?Well the idea is to have the fifty best players. Now obviously, especially with Battle.net2.0, there are going to be physical limitations and restrictions for that. It will be played on the North American server. It is online until the 16-man offline finals. So we're considering having Koreans in the league as well, but probably capping them off at five or something like that. But if they were to play, unless they physically flew to a place that had a better latency for a North American server, they would have to deal with problems of time zone restrictions but also latency, and the same is true for Europeans and South Americans alike, obviously to varying degrees. So that's just kind of a shame, obviously the dream would be to say “well we're just going to fly out the fifty best players to this remote location where they're going to be taken care of by bikini babes,” but we're not there just quite yet. But, we're going to do the best with what we have, and the idea is to crown a world champion. To find the best player in the whole world, and to the best of our abilities we're going to do that. Read more: http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/710588/North-American-Star-League-Exclusive-Interview-with-Geoff-iNcontroL-Robinson.html#ixzz1EeZUJNUK
I can see Nazgul's concern, but I personally agree with Incontrol. It's a 50 person tournament, it'd be best to spread out the applicants over as many teams as possible. The generality of "Well, what teams can field more than 5 people?" doesn't take into account the fact that after this, we could very well begin seeing more than 5 great players per team. Because when you actually have a huge league to take part in, you're going to practice harder and get that much better. No one can argue that the lagging behind of American talent in the scene can at least in part be attributed to the fact that up until now most people on a Non-Korean pro-team would never actually be able to compete in a tournament the size of a GSL.
Keeping it to 5 per team would only seek to intensify the competition. And besides, I see this as a stopgap for the future, where the competition is more crowded.
As Incontrol said, there are going to be potholes and some major things going wrong in the first season. This, right here, is probably one of those potholes that most of us are freaking out about. But he hasn't said anything about how the spots are going for the 2nd and 3rd season, right?
And the second and third and fourth place people will also get rewards from the open. The second one gets flown to the offline final in LA and they're the first replacement. So if someone can't make it for Visa issues, they get sick, or they just don't show, which would be ludicrous, that person is the first one in line. And then third and fourth get auto birthed into season two.
I think we can bring ourselves to wait until they decide to tell us how they're going to decide the competitors for the 2nd and 3rd season. If we all remember correctly, the GSL didn't really make it public knowledge (or, at least, it wasn't public knowledge on these forums) that Code S or Code A even existed until GSL Qualifier 2 or 3. Whichever one it was.
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The voting process is very strange.
Votes have been fluctuating up and down, PiQliQ had ~12000 votes (and -3 comments, lol) and now i see it lowered to 8,500, Destiny had ~6500 votes (70comments) and now its about 5250. Pretty sure it was only Destiny's very enthusiastic viewers in chat, but for PiqliQ I kind of wonder.
So some strange voting issues but NASL seems legit nevertheless. ^_^
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What other things are the premium members going to get? Is it going to be like GOM where they get VODs?
Yeah pretty much exactly like that. You'll get a season pass and then access to the high quality VODs. We're talking about creating additional content as well like giving them access to replays but then we thought that was kind of silly because it only takes one person to get a replay and then the whole internet has the replay.
will there be normal quality vods too? or gsl style only vods if you pay?
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My real big question is why 50 players? Some people are going to get buys through rounds and who chooses who gets a buy?
Its 5 divisions of 10 people... But after the first round you end up with 5 players, so someone gets a buy... Less I don't understand the format.
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So is there a prize for runner up and semi finalists?
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On February 22 2011 12:15 reyk wrote:
The voting process is very strange.
Votes have been fluctuating up and down, PiQliQ had ~12000 votes (and -3 comments, lol) and now i see it lowered to 8,500, Destiny had ~6500 votes (70comments) and now its about 5250. Pretty sure it was only Destiny's very enthusiastic viewers in chat, but for PiqliQ I kind of wonder.
So some strange voting issues but NASL seems legit nevertheless. ^_^
You can change your votes.
Thanks iNcontrol, this looks awesome.
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On February 22 2011 12:04 Ezze wrote:
In my opinion this will be quite successful if they bring in Tastosis or day9. I've started to realize that casters are what makes or breaks my enjoyment of a stream. Most definitely not paying $25 to listen to incontrol and gretorp. Nothing personal against them, but they just aren't good casters.
Also, how is piqliq getting like a million votes? Did I miss something?
One of the questions in the interview asked about day9 and incontrol made it clear they went to him early but he is a really busy guy and wasn't ready to commit lots of time to an unsure thing, but he was willing to do some cast every now and then. relax if this thing gets big im sure that day and many other big casters will get involved.
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On February 22 2011 12:19 Insanious wrote:
My real big question is why 50 players? Some people are going to get buys through rounds and who chooses who gets a buy?
Its 5 divisions of 10 people... But after the first round you end up with 5 players, so someone gets a buy... Less I don't understand the format.
I believe it's going to be more of a round robin style tournament.
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On February 22 2011 12:19 Insanious wrote:
My real big question is why 50 players? Some people are going to get buys through rounds and who chooses who gets a buy?
Its 5 divisions of 10 people... But after the first round you end up with 5 players, so someone gets a buy... Less I don't understand the format.
It's group play. All 10 players play each other in a best of 3. top 3 advance to round of 16.
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On February 22 2011 12:19 Insanious wrote:
My real big question is why 50 players? Some people are going to get buys through rounds and who chooses who gets a buy?
Its 5 divisions of 10 people... But after the first round you end up with 5 players, so someone gets a buy... Less I don't understand the format.
... It's not an elimination bracket. It's a round-robin group.
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I can see situations where Team battles could be controversial in the group stage. Having 10 players in each group makes up to 9 matches, so one of the team players could be already qualified or already out and have a controversial loss against a teammate to make him pass the group stage. That could make reasonable the 5 max rule, not that I am in favor or that I doubt the professionalism of the team players...
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The tournament sounds fantastic.But imo the biggest drawback is its exclusivity.. I get that the best players around are on teams, but I think one of the most exciting aspects of the GSl is that literally anyone had a shot to qualify after signing up for a prelim.
Maybe down the line the organizers might add a feeder tournament/league like the Code S/A setup which I think works well.
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Hopefully I can make it up from San Diego for one of the finals but it doesn't seem like there's too much room in the studio they have.
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Can anyone tell me the song that's playing during the NASL video?
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I suggest Incontrol avoid TeamLiquid for 24-48 hours so the initial rush of suggestions, opinions, or corrections can subside a bit. I missed the announcement at the time due to class, but upon arrival it seemed like the excitement was/is matched by everyone critiquing every little thing off the bat. I know feedback is good and all, but a bit of a grace period after the announcement and everyone posting their 99 Thesis' on the forum would have been nice. Maybe its just me, but if I put a lot of work into something only to see it be dissected and "corrected" out of the gate with simple qualifiers of "...and this is awesome..." might convey an underappreciated feeling.
Could be just me though....
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holy shit
I don't even like starcraft 2
and this is amazing news.
I just MAY have to tune in to this from time to time...
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On February 22 2011 12:24 Regstata wrote:
Hopefully I can make it up from San Diego for one of the finals but it doesn't seem like there's too much room in the studio they have.
They already said they're not doing the grand finals in their cramped studio, they're doing it at another location probably with much more spectator room.
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On February 22 2011 12:24 Regstata wrote:
Hopefully I can make it up from San Diego for one of the finals but it doesn't seem like there's too much room in the studio they have.
I think it was said the finals would be held in a bigger area.
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On February 22 2011 12:20 YoiChiBow wrote:
Where can we vote?
here is the link to the voting Link
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The only bad part is this... we vote who we want to see... the voting part really isn't fair, I really though this was gonna be more like GSL where we have a qualifier and that player goes in and trys his best... whats gonna happen to the up and coming players, that don't stream or don't care about the popularity contest that this just made...you know what i mean... I really think maybe just 1 HUGE tourney do one in EURO one in KOREA and one is NA kinda like TSL is doing... then make that 1 season, more content more fighting for the 100,000... Or about the players that dont have a team, that are really good and don't care for the team aspect ... just little things like that.. then hold the finals in cali or where ever?
THIS IS JUST MY OPINION , it means nothing I KNOW THAT... so i dont want flames all over me... I am just throwing 2 cents in this thats it. I WISH NASL GL and i hope to god they do it good so maybe later it will be more like GSL in that aspect... as I said NOT HATING we can TAKE wat we GET as NA esports is concerned , so i am happy someone is doing it.
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this is pretty awesome. thanks incontrol and the other dudes behind nasl.tv
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All foreigners with only a few Koreans sounds like it's going to be D-League/amateur-league/college level play. I really hope I'm wrong though.
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To me, the 5 players per team/5 Koreans max rule makes perfect sense. Think about it this way: NASL is in a perfect position to introduce eSports as a reputable idea to a lot of people in NA who won't have heard of it before, or aren't hardcore at any rate (like everyone on TL is by definition). Having more teams and predominantly home-team players will only increase the probability of people accepting it as a thing, finding favourites to root for, watching the team vs team fights ('ohh man did you see Liquid'A knocked out Root_A in group 1? Root_B's gonna be pissed at Liquid'B in group 2!!).
People on TL forget a lot of the time that we're not the only people to be concerned with here. We're the hardcore demographic, and a lot of things we may not like are there because they appeal to the casual demographic. Point in case: I've heard lots of people say they prefer Day[9] to Husky. This is hardly surprising to me, considering Day[9]'s dailies are more aimed at people who want to get in depth with SC2, learn more about their game, how to improve. Husky's casts tend to be more popular with people who don't necessarily know much about SC2, and just want to watch for the entertainment value. Hardcore and casual. Both are legitimate revenue streams, and both need to be targeted for the income required to make eSports a big thing in the west.
Well that's what I think anyway
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It's pathetic to see that a large number of players complaining about an awesome tournament in NA, with great casting and a huge prize pool, and presumably a ton of very good players.
I can't wait to watch this, sounds like there will be an amazing amount of content created by this.
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On February 22 2011 12:26 SeizeTheDay wrote:
The only bad part is this... we vote who we want to see... the voting part really isn't fair, I really though this was gonna be more like GSL where we have a qualifier and that player goes in and trys his best... whats gonna happen to the up and coming players, that don't stream or don't care about the popularity contest that this just made...you know what i mean... I really think maybe just 1 HUGE tourney do one in EURO one in KOREA and one is NA kinda like TSL is doing... then make that 1 season, more content more fighting for the 100,000... Or about the players that dont have a team, that are really good and don't care for the team aspect ... just little things like that.. then hold the finals in cali or where ever?
THIS IS JUST MY OPINION , it means nothing I KNOW THAT... so i dont want flames all over me... I am just throwing 2 cents in this thats it. I WISH NASL GL and i hope to god they do it good so maybe later it will be more like GSL in that aspect... as I said NOT HATING we can TAKE wat we GET as NA esports is concerned , so i am happy someone is doing it.
On February 22 2011 10:06 iNcontroL wrote:
The voting is a fun way to get involved and support your favorite players. It helps but by no means WHAT SO EVER decides who gets selected.
Please stop looking for ways to make this a bad thing.
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I wouldn't worry to much about the voting, its just one part of the process but i do agree more open spots would be fun. Maybe when it gets bigger more open spots will be added.
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This is huge for north america. Anyone who wants esports to be big in the west needs to support this tournament and the MLG's. This is the time.
Good luck incontrol and gretorp, and good luck to all the NASL staff. This is awesome, you are awesome.
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On February 22 2011 12:29 oxxo wrote:
All foreigners with only a few Koreans sounds like it's going to be D-League/amateur-league/college level play. I really hope I'm wrong though.
How can u say that? Koreans are not embracing SC2 as much as the rest of the world... and u should know that. Koreans DON'T mean that they are the best. Its just there practice schedule as we can see HUK is doing much better in Korea living in a Korean gaming house add the fact JINRO and IDRA who lived in Korea with the schedule of gaming all the time did well in GSL also... THAT IS WHAT WE ALL NEED, its just not that easy to get it...I think its bullshit that the foreigners don't get the credit they SHOULD get , because they are competing with Koreans, and NOT playing in a PRO GAMING HOUSE. ANYONE can get better over time with the schedule of a pro gamer... in ANYTHING.
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I'm honestly not that excited about this. Paying 25$ just so that i can see supply counts/unit counts etc on a stream ruins the fun of the tournament. The voting seems silly, as do some of the rules. But this is a pretty big step for the NA scene so hopefully it's a success
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can't wait to pay for this. 25 bucks seems fair, especially since it will be viewable live at normal (for myself) hours instead of 3-4 in the morning like GOM.
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Cool interview, it's cool they worked this out with MLG and stuff too.
Also, didn't know Blizzard was also involved! would like to know how much and with what however... anyone know?
Also, a question:
The voting is a fun way to get involved and support your favorite players. It helps but by no means WHAT SO EVER decides who gets selected.
Please stop looking for ways to make this a bad thing.
Here he says two completely opposing ideas. Which one is it? First he says "it helps" but then he says "by no means WHAT SO EVER decides who gets selected"
If it doesn't help, then by no means it will not decide who gets selected. But he says it does help. Meaning, it has to decide by some kind of mean, however small the influence is.
So is the 2nd part just exaggeration, and he means that it does help, but that the selected players aren't decided on 100% based on the votes they get?
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On February 22 2011 12:37 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:Cool interview, it's cool they worked this out with MLG and stuff too. Also, didn't know Blizzard was also involved! would like to know how much and with what however... anyone know? Also, a question: Show nested quote +The voting is a fun way to get involved and support your favorite players. It helps but by no means WHAT SO EVER decides who gets selected.
Please stop looking for ways to make this a bad thing. Here he says two completely opposing ideas. Which one is it? First he says "it helps" but then he says "by no means WHAT SO EVER decides who gets selected" If it doesn't help, then by no means it will not decide who gets selected. But he says it does help. Meaning, it has to decide by some kind of mean, however small the influence is. So is the 2nd part just exaggeration, and he means that it does help, but that the selected players aren't decided on 100% based on the votes they get?
I have no idea, why even have voting in the first place if they're just gonna say something like that... If the polls don't mean jack whats the point in the first place?
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Wait..............
Geoff doesn't get to eliminate his teammates in this one?
Where's the fun in that?
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On February 22 2011 12:35 cronican wrote:
This is huge for north america. Anyone who wants esports to be big in the west needs to support this tournament and the MLG's. This is the time.
Good luck incontrol and gretorp, and good luck to all the NASL staff. This is awesome, you are awesome.
The problem is MOST of us are not COMPLAINING, the fact is we are trying to think of ways that can BETTER this tourney to make it BIGGER better and live longer... Some of these things are OUT RIGHT DUMB to be honest... and if they can take the feedback of wat the people want, make it in to a better season next time. Then we as the gamers did our JOB. I am not going to sit and say OMG THEY DID THIS WRONG OMG OMGOMG I WONT SUPPORT IT... i would never do that because the fact is , this is HUGE for gaming in the west and in America. HUGE! since the CGS... so I am happy as all hell they are here. But the feedback of the people will make it a even better tourney next time.
Whoevers quote i just did i might have misc-licked lol , someone said something about complaining... so oh well :D
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This is gonna be so awesome!
Hopefully we are gonna see Day9, JP, Wheat, Husky in the mix aswell!
Thank you very much to all those involved!
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On February 22 2011 12:37 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:Cool interview, it's cool they worked this out with MLG and stuff too. Also, didn't know Blizzard was also involved! would like to know how much and with what however... anyone know? Also, a question: Show nested quote +The voting is a fun way to get involved and support your favorite players. It helps but by no means WHAT SO EVER decides who gets selected.
Please stop looking for ways to make this a bad thing. Here he says two completely opposing ideas. Which one is it? First he says "it helps" but then he says "by no means WHAT SO EVER decides who gets selected" If it doesn't help, then by no means it will not decide who gets selected. But he says it does help. Meaning, it has to decide by some kind of mean, however small the influence is. So is the 2nd part just exaggeration, and he means that it does help, but that the selected players aren't decided on 100% based on the votes they get?
Because they have the final decision on who they invite... the votes are just to give them suggestions/ show what the community wants
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On February 22 2011 12:29 oxxo wrote:
All foreigners with only a few Koreans sounds like it's going to be D-League/amateur-league/college level play. I really hope I'm wrong though.
With the amount of money on the line, I'd be really surprised if people didn't work their tails off to win that position, whether it be for the coin, fame, or other motivations, the opportunity is too great for a half-ass approach. If it proves stable, people will travel here and compete for the prize, and there are many more SC2 related opportunities to compound on here (with smaller weekly tournaments etc.), making the NA scene more and more attractive to a high caliber player.
My feeling is we just need to have faith that the people in charge will do what needs to be done, and that the spectacle we're hoping for will come in the near future. But these things take time, the game itself is still developing, new maps are beginning to find their way into the rotation, and there are two more expansions that have yet to come out. There is nothing but potential for this, but a negative outlook on it before one has a chance to see the hard work they've put into it is bad for our community and for the future growth.
PS: I didnt mean to pick on your post oxxo, I just started typing and this all came out O_o
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On February 22 2011 12:39 LuckyFool wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 12:37 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:Cool interview, it's cool they worked this out with MLG and stuff too. Also, didn't know Blizzard was also involved! would like to know how much and with what however... anyone know? Also, a question: The voting is a fun way to get involved and support your favorite players. It helps but by no means WHAT SO EVER decides who gets selected.
Please stop looking for ways to make this a bad thing. Here he says two completely opposing ideas. Which one is it? First he says "it helps" but then he says "by no means WHAT SO EVER decides who gets selected" If it doesn't help, then by no means it will not decide who gets selected. But he says it does help. Meaning, it has to decide by some kind of mean, however small the influence is. So is the 2nd part just exaggeration, and he means that it does help, but that the selected players aren't decided on 100% based on the votes they get? I have no idea, why even have voting in the first place if they're just gonna say something like that... If the polls don't mean jack whats the point in the first place?
Because otherwise we get the thread "NASL: just a popularity contest?" or whatever the fuck it was. People are just looking for excuses to complain. Maybe it will help break a tie, maybe it will help bring someone to the forefront of their discussion, but it's not going to be the only thing that determines who gets invited to compete. Stop nitpicking.
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The only criticism for the NASL i can even think of right now is that the website is a bit tacky.
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I can't believe they want me to pay 20-25$ a season when I only have to pay 10$ for GOMTV's GSL.
Are we to believe that the games played in NASL are going to be better? Is the production value going to be superior? Are there going to be more high-level games? Are the casters better?
I am doubtful. I will hope that season one proves me wrong and if so, will gladly fork over my 20-25$ to support ESPORTS.
If not...theres always GSL....
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On February 22 2011 12:40 SeizeTheDay wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 12:35 cronican wrote:
This is huge for north america. Anyone who wants esports to be big in the west needs to support this tournament and the MLG's. This is the time.
Good luck incontrol and gretorp, and good luck to all the NASL staff. This is awesome, you are awesome. The problem is MOST of us are not COMPLAINING, the fact is we are trying to think of ways that can BETTER this tourney to make it BIGGER better and live longer... Some of these things are OUT RIGHT DUMB to be honest... and if they can take the feedback of wat the people want, make it in to a better season next time. Then we as the gamers did our JOB. I am not going to sit and say OMG THEY DID THIS WRONG OMG OMGOMG I WONT SUPPORT IT... i would never do that because the fact is , this is HUGE for gaming in the west and in America. HUGE! since the CGS... so I am happy as all hell they are here. But the feedback of the people will make it a even better tourney next time. Whoevers quote i just did i might have misc-licked lol , someone said something about complaining... so oh well :D
HOW is that A valid RESPONE to THAT quote? He didn't SAY anything ABOUT complaining or NOT complaining.
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Day9 better be one of the unannounced casters if they want this to not suck.
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On February 22 2011 12:44 groms wrote:
I can't believe they want me to pay 20-25$ a season when I only have to pay 10$ for GOMTV's GSL.
Are we to believe that the games played in NASL are going to be better? Is the production value going to be superior? Are there going to be more high-level games? Are the casters better?
I am doubtful. I will hope that season one proves me wrong and if so, will gladly fork over my 20-25$ to support ESPORTS.
If not...theres always GSL....
10$s for around a month's worth of games.... 20-25 dollars for 9 weeks of group play plus however long the grand finals bracket is....
do math
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On February 22 2011 12:45 Kazzabiss wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 12:40 SeizeTheDay wrote:On February 22 2011 12:35 cronican wrote:
This is huge for north america. Anyone who wants esports to be big in the west needs to support this tournament and the MLG's. This is the time.
Good luck incontrol and gretorp, and good luck to all the NASL staff. This is awesome, you are awesome. The problem is MOST of us are not COMPLAINING, the fact is we are trying to think of ways that can BETTER this tourney to make it BIGGER better and live longer... Some of these things are OUT RIGHT DUMB to be honest... and if they can take the feedback of wat the people want, make it in to a better season next time. Then we as the gamers did our JOB. I am not going to sit and say OMG THEY DID THIS WRONG OMG OMGOMG I WONT SUPPORT IT... i would never do that because the fact is , this is HUGE for gaming in the west and in America. HUGE! since the CGS... so I am happy as all hell they are here. But the feedback of the people will make it a even better tourney next time. Whoevers quote i just did i might have misc-licked lol , someone said something about complaining... so oh well :D HOW is that A valid RESPONE to THAT quote? He didn't SAY anything ABOUT complaining or NOT complaining.
ARE u MOCKing HIS writing STYLEEE??
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On February 22 2011 12:45 Kazzabiss wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 12:40 SeizeTheDay wrote:On February 22 2011 12:35 cronican wrote:
This is huge for north america. Anyone who wants esports to be big in the west needs to support this tournament and the MLG's. This is the time.
Good luck incontrol and gretorp, and good luck to all the NASL staff. This is awesome, you are awesome. The problem is MOST of us are not COMPLAINING, the fact is we are trying to think of ways that can BETTER this tourney to make it BIGGER better and live longer... Some of these things are OUT RIGHT DUMB to be honest... and if they can take the feedback of wat the people want, make it in to a better season next time. Then we as the gamers did our JOB. I am not going to sit and say OMG THEY DID THIS WRONG OMG OMGOMG I WONT SUPPORT IT... i would never do that because the fact is , this is HUGE for gaming in the west and in America. HUGE! since the CGS... so I am happy as all hell they are here. But the feedback of the people will make it a even better tourney next time. Whoevers quote i just did i might have misc-licked lol , someone said something about complaining... so oh well :D HOW is that A valid RESPONE to THAT quote? He didn't SAY anything ABOUT complaining or NOT complaining.
read after what i said, i said it was a misc-click on his quote someone else said COMPLAINING about something or other... READ
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On February 22 2011 12:45 StimedPylon wrote:
Day9 better be one of the unannounced casters if they want this to not suck.
He mentions Day9 in the interview and the fact that they talked to him but he's incredibly busy. And please stop with the gross over-exaggerations. Does every tournament suck that's not cast by Day9?
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When I heard this announcement I cheered as if my favorite team scored a goal in hockey. Boom shakalocka
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I personally like especially that they did not forget about the europeans and gonna restream it at a european friendly time. (Exactly the time issue is why i have stopped following gsl.)
I think this is just great, thank you guys who put this together so much.
Only small bad thing that can be said is that not all the TL players are gonna be able to play because of the 5 per team rule
ps: The prospect of possibly hearing André, Geoff and diggity cast every day with day9 jumping in every now and then just makes me giddy
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It'd be a lot more interesting if they set it up like GSL does, where some people do not have to requalify and have a tournament to see who makes it. I just really hope like a lot of people are saying this doesn't turn into "well everyone from EG, Liquid, all these people we've known for so long and don't want to see lose because of bad maps, or unlucky games, or this or that..." I'd be really bummed if that were the case.
Good news is as soon as this starts only the people who are adamant about following the GSL in particular will have to deal with kelly milkies commentating lololol /joke
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Stoked!
I will definitely be getting the premium package and will try to make it out to the live finals. $20-$25 for the premium is a great deal when you consider that it is for a 14 week season with games 5 evenings a week. In comparison to GSL where last season it was $10 for just under 4 weeks with games being played in the dead of night when I should be sleeping.
Great job Geoff, Russ, Duncan, Gretorp and all the others! You guys got something awesome, can't wait to watch it unfold.
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I'm definitely happy about NASL, it's about time for a REAL NA sc2 league ... Not to take anything off MLG but the "3-day tournament every 2 months" does not really do justice to the greatness that is starcraft.
The only thing that bothers me is that "the best players in the world" sentence that we see in the video. This may be nothing to some people, but on a personal level I'm kind of an opponent of deceptive advertising in general.
But really, I can't wait for this tournament to start
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Excited excited excited excited.
The $250 deposit is a nice idea. With an event like this, you've got to make sure everyone's on their best behavior in case potential sponsors come poking around.
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Can't wait for this. 3 hours of top level starcraft 2 per DAY!?!? Yes please. Will most definitely be getting premium package. Though I probably wont need the VODs I will sometimes, HQ is nice, and most importantly it contributes to there being an NASL 4. I do hope that they get other casters though (Day9 would be the best, if he ever works out his schedule). I'm just not a fan of InControl/Gretorp's casting. But hell, this is awesome! I really hope that it is profitable for them and it becomes a regular thing for NA.
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My only issue is the team requirement (well team or go through a gauntlet similar to code a quals). what defines a team afterall. if myself and my girlfriend and friend form a starcraft "team" do I then satisfy the team requirement? is it limited to only established known teams? if so then how are unknown teams susposed to make a name for themselves, is it limited to teams with sponserships? then why exclude teams that lost/ are looking for scholarships (like ROOT was/is)? requiring membership in a team seems odd no matter the reason.
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please please please PLEASE tell me Day9 will be one of the commentators
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On February 22 2011 12:54 PrinceXizor wrote:
My only issue is the team requirement (well team or go through a gauntlet similar to code a quals). what defines a team afterall. if myself and my girlfriend and friend form a starcraft "team" do I then satisfy the team requirement? is it limited to only established known teams? if so then how are unknown teams susposed to make a name for themselves, is it limited to teams with sponserships? then why exclude teams that lost/ are looking for scholarships (like ROOT was/is)? requiring membership in a team seems odd no matter the reason.
This can only mean one thing...
NA Pro League!
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Thanks for the summary :D
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Because they have the final decision on who they invite... the votes are just to give them suggestions/ show what the community wants
But that means, however small the influence, it still does help by SOME MEAN. You're also making the error of trying to make 2 opposing ideas agree.
If it truly did not help decide by any means what so ever, as he claims, then the votes should have 0 influence. Even if it's to break a tie, that does help by "some mean."
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On February 22 2011 12:57 Yotta wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 12:54 PrinceXizor wrote:
My only issue is the team requirement (well team or go through a gauntlet similar to code a quals). what defines a team afterall. if myself and my girlfriend and friend form a starcraft "team" do I then satisfy the team requirement? is it limited to only established known teams? if so then how are unknown teams susposed to make a name for themselves, is it limited to teams with sponserships? then why exclude teams that lost/ are looking for scholarships (like ROOT was/is)? requiring membership in a team seems odd no matter the reason. This can only mean one thing... NA Pro League!
Yeah pro league seems awesome but why limit the single player event to team members only.
also it feels kind of sad to think, well i'm not on a team, guess i have to move to a foreign country to compete (and/or travel constantly for MLG)
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I can see a potential problem with "5 groups with 10 players in each" arrangement. It is possible that towards the end of the league, maybe by the second half, the point difference between players might be big enough that some players at the bottom will have no chance of qualifying. These players will have no incentive to win games and might even just forfeit games by not showing up.
One possible solution is to more groups with a small number of players in each. This will also help lift the cap of five players per team limit.
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On February 22 2011 13:00 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:Show nested quote +Because they have the final decision on who they invite... the votes are just to give them suggestions/ show what the community wants But that means, however small the influence, it still does help by SOME MEAN. You're also making the error of trying to make 2 opposing ideas agree. If it truly did not help decide by any means what so ever, as he claims, then the votes should have 0 influence. Even if it's to break a tie, that does help by "some mean."
You're arguing semantics of an offhand comment made by Incontrol. You're not analyzing a legal document. I'm not sure if I'm being trolled or if you just don't understand why your argument is absurd.
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On February 22 2011 13:02 ptell wrote:
I can see a potential problem with "5 groups with 10 players in each" arrangement. It is possible that towards the end of the league, maybe by the second half, the point difference between players might be big enough that some players at the bottom will have no chance of qualifying. These players will have no incentive to win games and might even just forfeit games by not showing up.
One possible solution is to more groups with a small number of players in each. This will also help lift the cap of five players per team limit.
Each player has to pay a 250$ deposit, if you don't obey the rules you won't get your money back.
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On February 22 2011 10:46 Brad wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 10:42 Karthane wrote:
I'm still a little baffled. Where the hell are they getting 400,000 dollars?? The owner of Coaching, Russ, he is the mastermind. This is his baby. He partnered with a USC law school graduate named Duncan who's kind of an eSports newbie, he saw a nice business venture and he's excited and learning more about eSports and they backed it and created it.
They're goign to need 4000 subscribers just to cover the prize pool each season if they price it at $25. I rarely see 4000 viewers for any stream and today they only had about 13000 after the initial interviews and first games. I don't see how they can make enough money off of this to pay even 4 full time employee let alone the studio cost. I hope they're getting a crapload of money from jtv advertisements. I hope it works out. Really. Just worried and skeptical that it will.
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The league looks like its going to be big. The only thing I don't understand is why teams has anything to do with the selection? I thought it was just an individual tournament based on skills similar to the GSL... the qualification process is questionable.
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On February 22 2011 13:02 ptell wrote:
I can see a potential problem with "5 groups with 10 players in each" arrangement. It is possible that towards the end of the league, maybe by the second half, the point difference between players might be big enough that some players at the bottom will have no chance of qualifying. These players will have no incentive to win games and might even just forfeit games by not showing up.
One possible solution is to more groups with a small number of players in each. This will also help lift the cap of five players per team limit.
I agree that this might be an issue, but they have to put down a deposit to play and won't get it all back if they no show, so you'd have to really, REALLY not care to not show up. People not practicing as hard as they could is a real issue I guess, and I'm not a big fan of round robin tournaments because of it, but this format seems to do best what they want to accomplish: show as much high level SC2 as possible.
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Being fined for 'unforeseeable problems' is just awesome! Honestly, if a snow storm goes through someones area and they cant log on, you are going to make them pay for it? Don't you think thats just a little bit silly?
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On February 22 2011 12:46 Kazzabiss wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 12:44 groms wrote:
I can't believe they want me to pay 20-25$ a season when I only have to pay 10$ for GOMTV's GSL.
Are we to believe that the games played in NASL are going to be better? Is the production value going to be superior? Are there going to be more high-level games? Are the casters better?
I am doubtful. I will hope that season one proves me wrong and if so, will gladly fork over my 20-25$ to support ESPORTS.
If not...theres always GSL.... 10$s for around a month's worth of games.... 20-25 dollars for 9 weeks of group play plus however long the grand finals bracket is.... do math
And you should read the rest of his post. Yes the NASL will be longer but will the content justify the price? An analogy would be if we had to pay to watch the World Cup and a season of MLS on tv. If it costs $10 to watch the World Cup and $25 for MLS, I believe more people will be willing to pay to watch the World Cup even a MLS season is longer than the World Cup.
TLDR: Quantity is not necessarily better if it is at the cost of quality. And that is the question people are wondering.
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This all sounds exciting, especially the insane prize pool. I guess they might be using invite's, I prefer a qualification system and then you have to keep yhour spot. Might not see all the more popular players but it will give rise to new star's. Maybe do something that the tsl does where you have some proven invites and open up the remaining spots to online qualifiers.
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On February 22 2011 13:07 FXOpen wrote:
Being fined for 'unforeseeable problems' is just awesome! Honestly, if a snow storm goes through someones area and they cant log on, you are going to make them pay for it? Don't you think thats just a little bit silly?
I'm sure they will handle complaints like these justly. Obviously if you can easily prove something was 'unforeseeable' like weather then they will not fine someone for it.
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On February 22 2011 13:07 FXOpen wrote:
Being fined for 'unforeseeable problems' is just awesome! Honestly, if a snow storm goes through someones area and they cant log on, you are going to make them pay for it? Don't you think thats just a little bit silly?
QFT
yeah this fine thing cannot possibly last.
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This is awesome. I don't see myself purchasing it because I can't watch all the GSL matches and these matches so I'll just watch ro4/finals for free since this is in my timezone when it goes live. And GSL I must pay for because I'm not staying up until 4 am to watch the GSL. I do look forward to these matches though.
Does anyone else feel like theres too many competitions? I'm glad for SC2 growing and I want it to keep growing. But god damn, GSL, NASL, and other tournaments simply take up too much time.
I think I'll stick to watching alL GSL matches and ro4/finals for other tournaments.
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On February 22 2011 10:27 motbob wrote:Show nested quote +What other things are the premium members going to get? Is it going to be like GOM where they get VODs?
Yeah pretty much exactly like that. You'll get a season pass and then access to the high quality VODs. We're talking about creating additional content as well like giving them access to replays but then we thought that was kind of silly because it only takes one person to get a replay and then the whole internet has the replay. It's as easy to copy a VOD file as it is to copy a replay...
On February 22 2011 13:09 axellerate wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 13:07 FXOpen wrote:
Being fined for 'unforeseeable problems' is just awesome! Honestly, if a snow storm goes through someones area and they cant log on, you are going to make them pay for it? Don't you think thats just a little bit silly? QFT yeah this fine thing cannot possibly last.
I'm pretty sure it's in case they intentionally behave in an unforeseeable, problematic way.
Professional athletes can be fined for behaving in a way that the league or their team deems inappropriate, it's necessary to ensure players won't hurt the league's reputation if things don't go their way.
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I may have misunderstood something, but is this going to be run by 5-10 people?
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On February 22 2011 13:06 huameng wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 13:02 ptell wrote:
I can see a potential problem with "5 groups with 10 players in each" arrangement. It is possible that towards the end of the league, maybe by the second half, the point difference between players might be big enough that some players at the bottom will have no chance of qualifying. These players will have no incentive to win games and might even just forfeit games by not showing up.
One possible solution is to more groups with a small number of players in each. This will also help lift the cap of five players per team limit. I agree that this might be an issue, but they have to put down a deposit to play and won't get it all back if they no show, so you'd have to really, REALLY not care to not show up. People not practicing as hard as they could is a real issue I guess, and I'm not a big fan of round robin tournaments because of it, but this format seems to do best what they want to accomplish: show as much high level SC2 as possible.
Yeah I agree, this could lead to a lot of cheesier, lower quality games towards the end. Let's hope this is balanced out by situations where the top two players are not determined until the very last week.
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Is awesome news for Western Esports and SC2 in general, just a shame its not league format KO's are great and all, but Proleague, or individual league is a set up that is being really underutilised in SC2 so far.
Edit for clarity, I meant a straight up league, the current format is good but I'm not sure keeping teammates apart is really fair, it's a 1v1 game, they train in their teams but they play for themselves.
Especially as its an individual league this seems pretty odd. I was kind of expecting a proleague I guess. oh well.
Nice that they are going to restream for EU too, staying up to watch games is really inconvenient sometimes.
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On February 22 2011 13:09 axellerate wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 13:07 FXOpen wrote:
Being fined for 'unforeseeable problems' is just awesome! Honestly, if a snow storm goes through someones area and they cant log on, you are going to make them pay for it? Don't you think thats just a little bit silly? QFT yeah this fine thing cannot possibly last.
Nah I think this idea is a great one. Keeps people in the tournament accountable. I'm sure if there some extreme circumstance then exceptions will be made. I would rather have this in place so that you can regularly schedule broadcasts without hiccups like people just not showing up.
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The format of this tournament is going to produce ALOT more exciting games than what the GSL does imo.
The reason for this is because of the length of a season and # of games I guess.
In GSL you could go "hmm let me try this weird build that might work and is really different" but then you lose and you could possibly be out of the whole tournament next game. Therefore you don't see people doing much of this and the games are very stale and routine.
There are exceptions to this (eg: Jinro going mech against MC was pretty epic). However, as a whole I think the style of play in GSL tournaments is very very stale - am really looking forward to this new extended tournament it should be great.
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i really cant wait for this. i hope this leads to many many great things for esports in the west.
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On February 22 2011 13:16 kampfer0 wrote:
i really cant wait for this. i hope this leads to many many great things for esports in the west.
If it's profitable enough it will.
Everyone: if you don't buy a ticket you're killing starcraft, and also kittens. And puppies, because for some people even kittens aren't cute enough to make you forget they're cats, and cats suck.
do you really want to kill the puppy starcraft?
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This looks amazing, great work guys, can't wait!
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This seems like a very biased league that no one will take seriously, no offense. It will definitely be fun to watch, but nothing at all as to what I was expecting. Its not very "fair", more "fun" I guess you could put it. I bet the people over at GSL are quite happy with how this turned out.
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I hope it makes absurd, offensive amounts of money for the organizers/promoters. Whatever they have to do in order to make that happen is fair game in my opinion.
They should be wiping their asses with benjamins. If that happens, other business minded people with capitol will be forced to start other high end, high stakes, competetive SC2 leagues, and sponsors will be forced to throw even more money at the event... making more prize pool and better events.
It can only be bad if people don't make money. Here's hopin.
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very exciting news, can't wait to see how everything pans out!
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
On February 22 2011 13:20 Yotta wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 13:16 kampfer0 wrote:
i really cant wait for this. i hope this leads to many many great things for esports in the west. If it's profitable enough it will. Everyone: if you don't buy a ticket you're killing starcraft, and also kittens. And puppies, because for some people even kittens aren't cute enough to make you forget they're cats, and cats suck. do you really want to kill the puppy starcraft?
you can't scare me.
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Awesome news! Definitely glad to see western e-sports take initiative to compete with korea. Idk how close to korean levels of viewers NASL will get (a fraction im sure) but who knows what the future holds- maybe the west can really get some movement.
A more in depth explanation of how the team restrictions work would be nice. Does a team with upwards of 5 people not get to sign up as a team? Or do they simply pick a "top" 5 players that the team wouldnt want to run into one another?
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The fine HAS to last. The clan wars for 10k have been ridiculously unprofessional with swaps galore. I don't know how much money you need to make your job a serious business, but they've got the right idea.
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The team thing in particular is very, very strange. What about players like WhiteRa? "Duckload" isn't really a team, its a website sponsoring him? The "EG and Liquid can have more players" is just a slap in the face, too.
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On February 22 2011 13:31 Phaint wrote:
The team thing in particular is very, very strange. What about players like WhiteRa? "Duckload" isn't really a team, its a website sponsoring him? The "EG and Liquid can have more players" is just a slap in the face, too.
The rule really says "EG and Liquid can't have too many players"
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On February 22 2011 13:31 Phaint wrote:
The "EG and Liquid can have more players" is just a slap in the face, too.
Im pretty sure he used them as an example of how they'd be capped at 5. Not that they'd be able to have more than 5.
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On February 22 2011 10:32 tok wrote:
I hope it's not another GSL. I will admit I am looking forward to it, mlg has been real boring lately and GSTL was a bit of a snoozefest.
hm, those have been by far the most exiting tourmaments i watched, if you even find those boring, i dotn know what else there is....
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On February 22 2011 13:20 Yotta wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 13:16 kampfer0 wrote:
i really cant wait for this. i hope this leads to many many great things for esports in the west. If it's profitable enough it will. Everyone: if you don't buy a ticket you're killing starcraft, and also kittens. And puppies, because for some people even kittens aren't cute enough to make you forget they're cats, and cats suck. do you really want to kill the puppy starcraft?
I'll donate 25$ to help out a starving kid in Africa, and if I have leftovers I'll consider buying a ticket.
Happy?
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I am sure the NASL and the team issues will be discussed on SOTG tomorrow extensively.
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Good way to see less known players duke it out
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where is boxer on the vote?
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Very exciting news. I'll be purchasing a premium package for sure.
Despite the fact that Korea has become synonymous with top level players, I hope this brings more attention & confidence to the western scene.
Best of luck to all who are involved.
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now i can say you live up to the hype, really exited about this
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This is so great, esp. the delayed stream for europeans. Also, please, please, please do release the replays.
I've always loved the ESL for doing this, and while it would obviously be super-cool if you could release them for free, this is actually one of the things that would make me consider paying for the premium service. (i'm not paying for streams, because my connection cant support lag-free HD streaming most of the time)
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The 5 players per team limit was extremely silly as it punishes the 6th+ gamers from teams with a deep lineup, thus punishes big teams for investing in their players -- all for an ambiguous reason.
Furthermore, this rule, if continues to be applied in future tournaments, will discourage players from joining established teams, and discourage teams from recruiting more players. It doesn't benefit anyone and definitely bad for the growth of esport.
Those who supported the team limit in this thread (because it prevents team collision wtf?) really don't have a clue how esport competitions works.
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I hope the finals for this is a huge public event. I'm making it a priority now to travel to California for them. =)
Thanks so much to everyone who made this possible. Esports is finally going to become huge in the West.
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the 5 player limit seems fine for a small tourney like this and why is everyone so quick pounce ... did everyone already forget they are pretty much betting 400k on this to succeed. if anyone else can do this they can have an only liquid invite tourney and id be fine with it.
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I'm excited for this. It looks very promising and hopefully will be run during normal hours!
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Apart from the limit of 5 per team, I'm hyped for this tournament!
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Are we going to see extended series? 
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On February 22 2011 13:42 mrdx wrote:
The 5 players per team limit was extremely silly as it punishes the 6th+ gamers from teams with a deep lineup, thus punishes big teams for investing in their players -- all for an ambiguous reason.
Furthermore, this rule, if continues to be applied in future tournaments, will discourage players from joining established teams, and discourage teams from recruiting more players. It doesn't benefit anyone and definitely bad for the growth of esport.
Those who supported the team limit in this thread (because it prevents team collision wtf?) really don't have a clue how esport competitions works.
On a 5 group format, with 10 players per group it seems reasonable to limit to 1 teamplayer per group to avoid possible controversial loses between teammates in the last games of the group. Imagine if one of the team players is already qualified or has completely no chance, it could be controversial if the other one wins and gets to the next round. From that point of view it is reasonable. Of course it casts a shadow of doubt against the professionalism of the players, but it could be acceptable to just avoid that situations.
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Really excited for this league. Just want to say thanks to everyone who put time into making this happen.
Only concern is 5 player per team max, although I'll withhold judgment until more details come out (hopefully tomorrows SoTG). I can see bigger teams working around this rule by artificially dividing their team into two (ie. LiquidBlue & LiquidRed) to qualify all players. We'll have to wait and see.
Looking forward to iNc casting.
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Fingers crossed for removing the Korean player limit. Preventing entrants based on nationality shouldn't occur; the latency affects them the most. If they are capable of succeeding under such circumstances they should be rewarded for it.
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Kinda pricey if it's gonna be 20-25 bucks, but if the level of play is there I'll definitely shell out money for a ticket. This (should) be amazing.
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20 $ for 9-10 weeks 5 days a week isn't much for top level SC2. Can't wait.
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"Incontrol stated that perhaps there will be a cap on Koreans at five max." LOL
that would be such a terrible idea... Let the best players in the world compete plz..
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As I said earlier, I reckon the 5 korean/5 per team limit is to appeal to the average, more casual NA gamer who will probably be more invested if they see more home team players and more teams in general (more similar size teams -> more conflict between 'equals' is how it looks at first glance, regardless of actual skill levels involved).
No-one responds to my posts ;_;
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Let me preface by saying I'm totally psyched about NASL, but I want it to be as good as it can possibly be. This showmatch was fantastic, but needs a bit of tuning to get it on the truly professional level.
Some criticisms of the cast:
-The sound quality. Overall it wasn't very good, there was some background noise and the voices were muffled. I suspect you're not using individual mics for the casters, and the sound quality is suffering. Give us some game music or something in the background, too.
-Random cuts to the casters in the middle of a game. I'm not even sure why this happened... this was a universally horrible decision. We don't want to look at the casters when there is a bunch of intense action going on.
-Transitions. Perhaps I'm just being a little nitpicky, but the no-sound transitions are pretty bland and sorta zone me out. Can you add like, some sort of music or sound effects or something to them?
Overall, I think it was pretty good, like I said. I just want it to be all it can be.
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I was tempted to vote for PiQliQ bit I don't know who the guy is. So many mysteries.
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On February 22 2011 13:51 xbito wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 13:42 mrdx wrote:
The 5 players per team limit was extremely silly as it punishes the 6th+ gamers from teams with a deep lineup, thus punishes big teams for investing in their players -- all for an ambiguous reason.
Furthermore, this rule, if continues to be applied in future tournaments, will discourage players from joining established teams, and discourage teams from recruiting more players. It doesn't benefit anyone and definitely bad for the growth of esport.
Those who supported the team limit in this thread (because it prevents team collision wtf?) really don't have a clue how esport competitions works. On a 5 group format, with 10 players per group it seems reasonable to limit to 1 teamplayer per group to avoid possible controversial loses between teammates in the last games of the group. Imagine if one of the team players is already qualified or has completely no chance, it could be controversial if the other one wins and gets to the next round. From that point of view it is reasonable. Of course it casts a shadow of doubt against the professionalism of the players, but it could be acceptable to just avoid that situations.
"Imagine if one of the team players is already qualified or has completely no chance.." - even if the team limit rule is enforced, that person could still give free wins to other players in his group (to trade for his teammate in another group, or for money or whatever). I mean - in group format, there will always be that position, where the player who is already qualified/disqualified could abuse his last game.
One way to reduce that problem is to give enough incentive so that it would hurt in some way to throw a game even if you're already disqualified/qualified. Also remember that blatant game throwing will hurt the team's brand image and no sponsor would like to see that.
Having more than one player per team in the same group happens very often in Korean Starleagues (in almost every Starleague, actually). This has never been a big issue as far as I remember.
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On February 22 2011 10:32 tok wrote:
I hope it's not another GSL. I will admit I am looking forward to it, mlg has been real boring lately and GSTL was a bit of a snoozefest.
GSTL was a snoozefest
did you watch the finals???
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On February 22 2011 13:10 Yotta wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 10:27 motbob wrote:What other things are the premium members going to get? Is it going to be like GOM where they get VODs?
Yeah pretty much exactly like that. You'll get a season pass and then access to the high quality VODs. We're talking about creating additional content as well like giving them access to replays but then we thought that was kind of silly because it only takes one person to get a replay and then the whole internet has the replay. It's as easy to copy a VOD file as it is to copy a replay... Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 13:09 axellerate wrote:On February 22 2011 13:07 FXOpen wrote:
Being fined for 'unforeseeable problems' is just awesome! Honestly, if a snow storm goes through someones area and they cant log on, you are going to make them pay for it? Don't you think thats just a little bit silly? QFT yeah this fine thing cannot possibly last. I'm pretty sure it's in case they intentionally behave in an unforeseeable, problematic way. Professional athletes can be fined for behaving in a way that the league or their team deems inappropriate, it's necessary to ensure players won't hurt the league's reputation if things don't go their way.
Read deeper into it. The wording has been put so that even if for instance, a power outage which is not the fault of the competitor happens, they can be fined. Plain and simple. This i believe is unfair, as a gamer cannot control the weather, power, or telco companies.
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EDIT Nevermind didn't read about the open tournament. excitedd
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I'm soo hyped for this! Western esports for the win!
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this is insane!!!!
HUGE prizepool, damn man, GG
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On February 22 2011 10:27 motbob wrote:
Eligibility: Anyone can apply (including Koreans), as long as they are on a gaming team (not sure if the team has to meet some set level of sponsorship/notoriety) and they commit to go to the July LAN held in California. Incontrol stated that perhaps there will be a cap on Koreans at five max, but this isn't set in stone. There is a cap on the number of players from each team, set at five. EG and Liquid, in other words, can have no more than five players in the event.
I don't know how you can "cap" the amount of koreans that can participate in your tournament. I would imagine your organization would be sued for some kind of racial discrimination.
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On February 22 2011 14:45 FXOpen wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 13:10 Yotta wrote:On February 22 2011 10:27 motbob wrote:What other things are the premium members going to get? Is it going to be like GOM where they get VODs?
Yeah pretty much exactly like that. You'll get a season pass and then access to the high quality VODs. We're talking about creating additional content as well like giving them access to replays but then we thought that was kind of silly because it only takes one person to get a replay and then the whole internet has the replay. It's as easy to copy a VOD file as it is to copy a replay... On February 22 2011 13:09 axellerate wrote:On February 22 2011 13:07 FXOpen wrote:
Being fined for 'unforeseeable problems' is just awesome! Honestly, if a snow storm goes through someones area and they cant log on, you are going to make them pay for it? Don't you think thats just a little bit silly? QFT yeah this fine thing cannot possibly last. I'm pretty sure it's in case they intentionally behave in an unforeseeable, problematic way. Professional athletes can be fined for behaving in a way that the league or their team deems inappropriate, it's necessary to ensure players won't hurt the league's reputation if things don't go their way. Read deeper into it. The wording has been put so that even if for instance, a power outage which is not the fault of the competitor happens, they can be fined. Plain and simple. This i believe is unfair, as a gamer cannot control the weather, power, or telco companies.
Yeah right, that is completely speculation and quite frankly 99% not going to be the case because you can prove a power outage or bad weather and most things not intentional. You guys are trying to act like the tournament is going to be run like Nazi Germany just because they will make the players accountable.
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Me, I like the idea of there being a cap on the number of players per team. You could look at it as punishing larger teams. But you could also look at as encouraging competition between teams, so it's not always a Liquid vs EG final or something along those lines.
What I question is the arbitrary cut-off at 5. To me that number only makes sense in the context that the casts are 5 days per week, maybe they want to do an entire division each day? I'm not sure if that could be fit in a 3 hours segment though.
6 per team would make much more sense for SC2 IMO. That way each team could field 2 players per race (with randoms allowed to fill any spot) so they can cover all match ups. So you could contrast, say, Liquid's TvT with EG's TvT. I'd argue that encouraging team competition is in the tournament's and esport's best interest, if not necessarily the player's.
6 divisions of 4 could work just as well as 5 divisions of 5. With top 2 advancing per division into a ro12. They could use the GSL's code S ranking methodology to further an eSports standard. It would vastly cut down the number of games needed to be played as well.
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On February 22 2011 14:45 FXOpen wrote:
Read deeper into it. The wording has been put so that even if for instance, a power outage which is not the fault of the competitor happens, they can be fined. Plain and simple. This i believe is unfair, as a gamer cannot control the weather, power, or telco companies.
It sounds a bit disingenuous to assume that the rule would be unfair. I'm sure the official rules will be very clear on what does or doesn't deserve a fine.
You're going off an interview and mentioning the wording as if it was some kind of official statement. It's not unexpected that the interview doesn't go deep into the details.
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I am seriously so happy that Diggity is one of the commentators for this. I used to watch him, Cholera and Moletrap all the time on VioletAK.
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On February 22 2011 14:45 FXOpen wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 13:10 Yotta wrote:On February 22 2011 10:27 motbob wrote:What other things are the premium members going to get? Is it going to be like GOM where they get VODs?
Yeah pretty much exactly like that. You'll get a season pass and then access to the high quality VODs. We're talking about creating additional content as well like giving them access to replays but then we thought that was kind of silly because it only takes one person to get a replay and then the whole internet has the replay. It's as easy to copy a VOD file as it is to copy a replay... On February 22 2011 13:09 axellerate wrote:On February 22 2011 13:07 FXOpen wrote:
Being fined for 'unforeseeable problems' is just awesome! Honestly, if a snow storm goes through someones area and they cant log on, you are going to make them pay for it? Don't you think thats just a little bit silly? QFT yeah this fine thing cannot possibly last. I'm pretty sure it's in case they intentionally behave in an unforeseeable, problematic way. Professional athletes can be fined for behaving in a way that the league or their team deems inappropriate, it's necessary to ensure players won't hurt the league's reputation if things don't go their way. Read deeper into it. The wording has been put so that even if for instance, a power outage which is not the fault of the competitor happens, they can be fined. Plain and simple. This i believe is unfair, as a gamer cannot control the weather, power, or telco companies.
Yet, if you get subpoenaed to show up to court- and fail to show, regardless of weather, you face jail time (tournament elimination) and a fine (refundable deposit)... Unfair, I believe.
Also, I can send text messages to email accounts from my terribad T-mobile cell-phone- and unless it's a pure brown-out style power outage, I'd think that email would suffice. I could be completely wrong, though; idk how flexible they would be for rescheduling an online tournament m/u (a la most recent SCReddit Invitational)...
edit in:
On February 22 2011 14:56 Thrax wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 14:45 FXOpen wrote:
Read deeper into it. The wording has been put so that even if for instance, a power outage which is not the fault of the competitor happens, they can be fined. Plain and simple. This i believe is unfair, as a gamer cannot control the weather, power, or telco companies. It sounds a bit disingenuous to assume that the rule would be unfair. I'm sure the official rules will be very clear on what does or doesn't deserve a fine. You're going off an interview and mentioning the wording as if it was some kind of official statement. It's not unexpected that the interview doesn't go deep into the details.
it also says clearly on the g4tv website for the interview that the statements are those of iNcontroL and do not necessarily reflect the official opinion of NASL.
edit in 2: ((copypasta from g4 interview))
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On February 22 2011 14:45 FXOpen wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 13:10 Yotta wrote:On February 22 2011 10:27 motbob wrote:What other things are the premium members going to get? Is it going to be like GOM where they get VODs?
Yeah pretty much exactly like that. You'll get a season pass and then access to the high quality VODs. We're talking about creating additional content as well like giving them access to replays but then we thought that was kind of silly because it only takes one person to get a replay and then the whole internet has the replay. It's as easy to copy a VOD file as it is to copy a replay... On February 22 2011 13:09 axellerate wrote:On February 22 2011 13:07 FXOpen wrote:
Being fined for 'unforeseeable problems' is just awesome! Honestly, if a snow storm goes through someones area and they cant log on, you are going to make them pay for it? Don't you think thats just a little bit silly? QFT yeah this fine thing cannot possibly last. I'm pretty sure it's in case they intentionally behave in an unforeseeable, problematic way. Professional athletes can be fined for behaving in a way that the league or their team deems inappropriate, it's necessary to ensure players won't hurt the league's reputation if things don't go their way. Read deeper into it. The wording has been put so that even if for instance, a power outage which is not the fault of the competitor happens, they can be fined. Plain and simple. This i believe is unfair, as a gamer cannot control the weather, power, or telco companies.
Why are you going out of your way to assume that NASL is out to get it's players or something? Calm down. We barely know anything yet.
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I feel like the 5 limit is to not have team kills in the group stage. 5 groups... 5 people max from each team. This makes it possible for no team kills to happen in group stages.
edit : not sure if this has been brought up yet, I've been reading random posts and such and I may have missed some.
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I do not watch a lot of tv, but I'm thinking of going with the hd package and putting a 32' hd tv on my wall to be able to chill in my bed and geek out over the live streams 5 nights a week ^_^
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On February 22 2011 14:45 FXOpen wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 13:10 Yotta wrote:On February 22 2011 10:27 motbob wrote:What other things are the premium members going to get? Is it going to be like GOM where they get VODs?
Yeah pretty much exactly like that. You'll get a season pass and then access to the high quality VODs. We're talking about creating additional content as well like giving them access to replays but then we thought that was kind of silly because it only takes one person to get a replay and then the whole internet has the replay. It's as easy to copy a VOD file as it is to copy a replay... On February 22 2011 13:09 axellerate wrote:On February 22 2011 13:07 FXOpen wrote:
Being fined for 'unforeseeable problems' is just awesome! Honestly, if a snow storm goes through someones area and they cant log on, you are going to make them pay for it? Don't you think thats just a little bit silly? QFT yeah this fine thing cannot possibly last. I'm pretty sure it's in case they intentionally behave in an unforeseeable, problematic way. Professional athletes can be fined for behaving in a way that the league or their team deems inappropriate, it's necessary to ensure players won't hurt the league's reputation if things don't go their way. Read deeper into it. The wording has been put so that even if for instance, a power outage which is not the fault of the competitor happens, they can be fined. Plain and simple. This i believe is unfair, as a gamer cannot control the weather, power, or telco companies.
Do you really believe that they're going to fine someone for a power outage? Honestly? This is just getting absurd.
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First off, nothing iNcontroL said in the interview should be construed as official rules for NASL. iNcontroL isn't in charge of establishing, managing or enforcing league rules. He's the lead Commentator for the NASL.
Secondly, the rules governing player committments to show up to games timely are there to protect ALL the players, the league, eSports and you the fan base.
It's unbelievable to me that on DAY ONE of the announcement of the NASL there would be so much nitpicking over things like this, particularly when nobody outside of the NASL has even seen the league rules yet.
Focus on what's good here - There's finally a REAL pro-gamer SC2 league with real prize money in North America. Celebrate it. We can argue about the rest of it later. That time will come.
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Going to be tough having to pay for the HQ passes for 3 leagues now (MLG, GSL, NASL) but I guess you gotta do what you gotta do for the community to continue to move up.
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On February 22 2011 15:07 OCsurfeR wrote:
First off, nothing iNcontroL said in the interview should be construed as official rules for NASL. iNcontroL isn't in charge of establishing, managing or enforcing league rules. He's the lead Commentator for the NASL.
Secondly, the rules governing player committments to show up to games timely are there to protect ALL the players, the league, eSports and you the fan base.
It's unbelievable to me that on DAY ONE of the announcement of the NASL there would be so much nitpicking over things like this, particularly when nobody outside of the NASL has even seen the league rules yet.
Focus on what's good here - There's finally a REAL pro-gamer SC2 league with real prize money in North America. Celebrate it. We can argue about the rest of it later. That time will come.
Surely it is a great, great thing for this game. Though I think some people might've been expecting something a little more mind blowing because of the obscene hype. if this weren't hyped at all, people would be screaming with ecstasy right now with a few legitimate concerns being posted here and there.
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On February 22 2011 15:07 OCsurfeR wrote:
First off, nothing iNcontroL said in the interview should be construed as official rules for NASL. iNcontroL isn't in charge of establishing, managing or enforcing league rules. He's the lead Commentator for the NASL.
Secondly, the rules governing player committments to show up to games timely are there to protect ALL the players, the league, eSports and you the fan base.
It's unbelievable to me that on DAY ONE of the announcement of the NASL there would be so much nitpicking over things like this, particularly when nobody outside of the NASL has even seen the league rules yet.
Focus on what's good here - There's finally a REAL pro-gamer SC2 league with real prize money in North America. Celebrate it. We can argue about the rest of it later. That time will come.
I agree with this. Count me in with the people that don't understand how you could complain about something that hasn't happened yet. Personally I can't see how this can turn out as anything less than awesome. This tournament is going to attract the best from all over the world.
Maybe someone can shed some light on how lag factors in when people log into the US from Korea/Europe. Whenever I see Catz logging into the Korean or European servers, it doesn't seem to lag enough to be a problem.
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rly rly sick sick money :D will be great :D
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I had to leave early (european), did they say how big of an impact votings gonna be? I really hope its only a small factor as its just a popularity contest, and not indicating of skill, some might say thats good for NASL tho, idk. Itd just feel weird if for example PsY were invited but not Demuslim, since Demuslim is obviously the better player.
Even though, as said before, theyll prolly invite some big "casuals-favorites" such as PsY to make it bigger. I just hope they wont invite Destiny, but i guess its not possible? As he isnt on a team afaik.
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On February 22 2011 15:05 Rokk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 14:45 FXOpen wrote:On February 22 2011 13:10 Yotta wrote:On February 22 2011 10:27 motbob wrote:What other things are the premium members going to get? Is it going to be like GOM where they get VODs?
Yeah pretty much exactly like that. You'll get a season pass and then access to the high quality VODs. We're talking about creating additional content as well like giving them access to replays but then we thought that was kind of silly because it only takes one person to get a replay and then the whole internet has the replay. It's as easy to copy a VOD file as it is to copy a replay... On February 22 2011 13:09 axellerate wrote:On February 22 2011 13:07 FXOpen wrote:
Being fined for 'unforeseeable problems' is just awesome! Honestly, if a snow storm goes through someones area and they cant log on, you are going to make them pay for it? Don't you think thats just a little bit silly? QFT yeah this fine thing cannot possibly last. I'm pretty sure it's in case they intentionally behave in an unforeseeable, problematic way. Professional athletes can be fined for behaving in a way that the league or their team deems inappropriate, it's necessary to ensure players won't hurt the league's reputation if things don't go their way. Read deeper into it. The wording has been put so that even if for instance, a power outage which is not the fault of the competitor happens, they can be fined. Plain and simple. This i believe is unfair, as a gamer cannot control the weather, power, or telco companies. Do you really believe that they're going to fine someone for a power outage? Honestly? This is just getting absurd.
I have a feeling that he might be attacking it under the guise of pre-emptively covering for a certain player of his who may suffer due to these rules. 
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On February 22 2011 15:12 On_Slaught wrote:
Going to be tough having to pay for the HQ passes for 3 leagues now (MLG, GSL, NASL) but I guess you gotta do what you gotta do for the community to continue to move up.
GSL: $10 for the best league in the world (players, production, commentators) and access to HD VODs for every match? No problem, a bargain even.
MLG: $10 for a weekend of randomly casted games in "HD" (which is still not good quality) and spotty at best production? LOL
NASL: $20-25 for ??? Still wait and see...
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Happy to finally hear about this. Anyhow, Day9 for casting!!!
He is the most eligible person to be on the top of this. I guess nobody did so much for SC2 like Day9. And I speak for all of the community, he is speaking for all of the players from bronz to master. This guys deserves to live hes dream.
Looking forward to see this.
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On February 22 2011 15:05 Rokk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 14:45 FXOpen wrote:On February 22 2011 13:10 Yotta wrote:On February 22 2011 10:27 motbob wrote:What other things are the premium members going to get? Is it going to be like GOM where they get VODs?
Yeah pretty much exactly like that. You'll get a season pass and then access to the high quality VODs. We're talking about creating additional content as well like giving them access to replays but then we thought that was kind of silly because it only takes one person to get a replay and then the whole internet has the replay. It's as easy to copy a VOD file as it is to copy a replay... On February 22 2011 13:09 axellerate wrote:On February 22 2011 13:07 FXOpen wrote:
Being fined for 'unforeseeable problems' is just awesome! Honestly, if a snow storm goes through someones area and they cant log on, you are going to make them pay for it? Don't you think thats just a little bit silly? QFT yeah this fine thing cannot possibly last. I'm pretty sure it's in case they intentionally behave in an unforeseeable, problematic way. Professional athletes can be fined for behaving in a way that the league or their team deems inappropriate, it's necessary to ensure players won't hurt the league's reputation if things don't go their way. Read deeper into it. The wording has been put so that even if for instance, a power outage which is not the fault of the competitor happens, they can be fined. Plain and simple. This i believe is unfair, as a gamer cannot control the weather, power, or telco companies. Do you really believe that they're going to fine someone for a power outage? Honestly? This is just getting absurd.
From a legal point of view (dealing with things constantly like this) thats what it states. There are no exclusions and it states specifically "unforseeableable problems.
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On February 22 2011 14:05 IamAnton wrote:
"Incontrol stated that perhaps there will be a cap on Koreans at five max." LOL
that would be such a terrible idea... Let the best players in the world compete plz..
Yea and what happens when 30+ koreans decide to move over and take over the top 16 of the tournament. You now have a north american tournament filled with all korean players. Does that sound like a good way to get western esports on the right track?
People want to watch players they can connect with; players that share their same culture and language. The league's purpose is to create the competitive environment needed for the west to catch up to the korean scene, not to determine who the best korean is.
Think of it as just one giant TSL tournament.
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Only the finals are "offline".
This is a HUGE turnoff for me. Makes real interviews after the games impossible. Also i was kinda turned down on the production value of yesterday's showmatch.
But we will see how it goes.
/edit:
Also scheduling this at "night" (presumably for pst) this is impossible for europeans to watch. I didn't watch the idra vs. jinro games yesterday for the same reason ... i just slept in.
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On February 22 2011 15:19 FXOpen wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 15:05 Rokk wrote:On February 22 2011 14:45 FXOpen wrote:On February 22 2011 13:10 Yotta wrote:On February 22 2011 10:27 motbob wrote:What other things are the premium members going to get? Is it going to be like GOM where they get VODs?
Yeah pretty much exactly like that. You'll get a season pass and then access to the high quality VODs. We're talking about creating additional content as well like giving them access to replays but then we thought that was kind of silly because it only takes one person to get a replay and then the whole internet has the replay. It's as easy to copy a VOD file as it is to copy a replay... On February 22 2011 13:09 axellerate wrote:On February 22 2011 13:07 FXOpen wrote:
Being fined for 'unforeseeable problems' is just awesome! Honestly, if a snow storm goes through someones area and they cant log on, you are going to make them pay for it? Don't you think thats just a little bit silly? QFT yeah this fine thing cannot possibly last. I'm pretty sure it's in case they intentionally behave in an unforeseeable, problematic way. Professional athletes can be fined for behaving in a way that the league or their team deems inappropriate, it's necessary to ensure players won't hurt the league's reputation if things don't go their way. Read deeper into it. The wording has been put so that even if for instance, a power outage which is not the fault of the competitor happens, they can be fined. Plain and simple. This i believe is unfair, as a gamer cannot control the weather, power, or telco companies. Do you really believe that they're going to fine someone for a power outage? Honestly? This is just getting absurd. From a legal point of view (dealing with things constantly like this) thats what it states. There are no exclusions and it states specifically "unforseeableable problems.
What 'states' that? An interview with a commentator that begins with the line "Be aware that the views in this interview are those of Geoff, and not official word from NASL."
Do you have a copy of the official rules (which probably don't even exist) handy?
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On February 22 2011 15:18 ChThoniC wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 15:12 On_Slaught wrote:
Going to be tough having to pay for the HQ passes for 3 leagues now (MLG, GSL, NASL) but I guess you gotta do what you gotta do for the community to continue to move up. GSL: $10 for the best league in the world (players, production, commentators) and access to HD VODs for every match? No problem, a bargain even. MLG: $10 for a weekend of randomly casted games in "HD" (which is still not good quality) and spotty at best production? LOL NASL: $20-25 for ??? Still wait and see...
Reason NASL is so high in price is because it is over a 3 month period, so it is actually less than 3 Seasons of GSL. I am going to be wholeheartedly behind NASL, it needs to succeed for western esports to get bigger.
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Oh btw, I think Geoff kinda overhyped all of this :p.. I mean, this is fanstastic and everything, but with the hype it had around it, people COULDNT be satisfied with anything i think, mbe if itd wouldve been like a 1m prize pool for a year or something ridiclously.
And i can understand some of u are dissappointed, esp when Geoff made it sound like he had gotten ESPN to broadcast it primetime, but seriously! its the first day, this showmatch was a good "tester" of everything, and do u remember tastosis in the start? id dare to say that if they improve in a rate near what they did, theyre gonna be amazing in no time.
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Super pumped. Going to buy premium for sure, even without knowing the players. iNcontroL is in it, which means quality. Hopefully better connection than to Korea based GSL, more familiar players and more comprehensive English coverage. This, along with MLG (boy I hope they can manage the shedules to not get in each other's way), will redefine Starcraft/esports in the West.
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On February 22 2011 15:24 CryMeAReaper wrote:
Oh btw, I think Geoff kinda overhyped all of this :p.. I mean, this is fanstastic and everything, but with the hype it had around it, people COULDNT be satisfied with anything i think, mbe if itd wouldve been like a 1m prize pool for a year or something ridiclously.
And i can understand some of u are dissappointed, esp when Geoff made it sound like he had gotten ESPN to broadcast it primetime, but seriously! its the first day, this showmatch was a good "tester" of everything, and do u remember tastosis in the start? id dare to say that if they improve in a rate near what they did, theyre gonna be amazing in no time.
i seriously doubt that showmatch was even recorded in the actual studio. with the tournament being so far out, i wouldn't be surprised if the "studio" was nothing but an empty shell space.
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the show match was so boring compared to any normal GSL coverage, even with 2 of my favourite players in it. they should never have compared it so closely to GSL, it is such a let down.
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PLEASE.. for the sake of every one in this community and for the sake of growing eSports, make Day9 the main commentator. Him and Artosis would be great IMO in a perfect sc2 world
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3 hours of professional Starcraft every day, 5 days / week, 13 weeks per season, 3 seasons per year (this year)? Whoa. Add GSL to that, then some of daily/weekly starcraft casts/shows..
Whoa, I wonder how I'm going to find the time to watch all that. I wonder if after all that I can still find time to actually play the game! My mood:
    
I love this, 2011 will be a good year for SC2 and eSports.
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One of the creators of NASL will be on state of the game tomorrow night. Might be worth a listen if you want to know more details.
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This announcement is super exciting. But I hope you think through your 5 korean limit idea. That's just stupid. You guys put in so much effort and money in this venture and plan to limit the best SC2 scene to just 5 players? If you want to succeed with this you surely want the best players in the world. That is the Korean scene. Drop the limit. If you can lure top koreans to play in this league, it's only better for you.
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On February 22 2011 15:21 mufin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 14:05 IamAnton wrote:
"Incontrol stated that perhaps there will be a cap on Koreans at five max." LOL
that would be such a terrible idea... Let the best players in the world compete plz.. Yea and what happens when 30+ koreans decide to move over and take over the top 16 of the tournament. You now have a north american tournament filled with all korean players. Does that sound like a good way to get western esports on the right track? People want to watch players they can connect with; players that share their same culture and language. The league's purpose is to create the competitive environment needed for the west to catch up to the korean scene, not to determine who the best korean is. Think of it as just one giant TSL tournament.
Thats called incentive, if the South Korean's are the best in the world then they are the best in the world and everyone else is just gonna have to get better. If not then its no better then male and female tournaments. The best should be aloud to compete no matter their race, sex or nationality. Sounds like you want easy mode.
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On February 22 2011 15:43 Pcl.Busted wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 15:21 mufin wrote:On February 22 2011 14:05 IamAnton wrote:
"Incontrol stated that perhaps there will be a cap on Koreans at five max." LOL
that would be such a terrible idea... Let the best players in the world compete plz.. Yea and what happens when 30+ koreans decide to move over and take over the top 16 of the tournament. You now have a north american tournament filled with all korean players. Does that sound like a good way to get western esports on the right track? People want to watch players they can connect with; players that share their same culture and language. The league's purpose is to create the competitive environment needed for the west to catch up to the korean scene, not to determine who the best korean is. Think of it as just one giant TSL tournament. Thats called incentive, if the South Korean's are the best in the world then they are the best in the world and everyone else is just gonna have to get better. If not then its no better then male and female tournaments. The best should be aloud to compete no matter their race, sex or nationality. Sounds like you want easy mode.
Yeah its not like the NBA puts a "cap" on the amount of African Americans that are allowed to play in their league.
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I really don't get the tournament format with 50 players getting whittled down to 15 I dont really understand how that will work. Wondering if maybe start with a bigger invite pool or still 50 and then open up more open tournament spots so maybe people who were restricted by not being on a team or too many teammates can qualify in and have a rounder number than 50. IDK it's hard to say for sure without knowing the format though cuz they could do something different like a league but that's REALLY hard to organize players to play eachother at specific times and cause a lot of hassle to support staff.
Just seems weird to have 50 invites and only one person gets in via the open slot idk seems better to open that up a bit more seeing as with the prize pool that open tour would be stacked and a lot of people will have to be turned away or it will just be way too big.
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On February 22 2011 15:22 Demonace34 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 15:18 ChThoniC wrote:On February 22 2011 15:12 On_Slaught wrote:
Going to be tough having to pay for the HQ passes for 3 leagues now (MLG, GSL, NASL) but I guess you gotta do what you gotta do for the community to continue to move up. GSL: $10 for the best league in the world (players, production, commentators) and access to HD VODs for every match? No problem, a bargain even. MLG: $10 for a weekend of randomly casted games in "HD" (which is still not good quality) and spotty at best production? LOL NASL: $20-25 for ??? Still wait and see... Reason NASL is so high in price is because it is over a 3 month period, so it is actually less than 3 Seasons of GSL. I am going to be wholeheartedly behind NASL, it needs to succeed for western esports to get bigger.
I'm just saying, it's an unknown. I'm 50-50 on it right now and will have to see the overall quality of the players, casting, and production before purchasing. The GSL is the gold standard, and every other paid stream will be held to that standard or I'll expect it to be cheaper.
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On February 22 2011 15:21 jacen wrote:
Only the finals are "offline".
This is a HUGE turnoff for me. Makes real interviews after the games impossible. Also i was kinda turned down on the production value of yesterday's showmatch.
But we will see how it goes.
/edit:
Also scheduling this at "night" (presumably for pst) this is impossible for europeans to watch. I didn't watch the idra vs. jinro games yesterday for the same reason ... i just slept in.
They already said they'd be restreaming them hours later for Europeans to get the 'live' effect.
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Just please improve the logo, website and the whole presentation in general. It looks quite bad tbh.
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Wow, big fucking prize pools. This will make SC2 more and more interesting with countless tourney everyweek!
Hehe, now I know why IdrA withdrew from GSL
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So wait who's running this league? EG? Are they the ones that are giving away the 400K prize pool?
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I dont get this 5 Korean player limit. ???
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On February 22 2011 15:56 Mike941 wrote:
So wait who's running this league? EG? Are they the ones that are giving away the 400K prize pool?
Please read the OP and/or the interview before you ask. It's not EG.
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Regarding player availability for other tournaments, the division play is all online. They can play from anywhere. In terms of scheduling, I think I understood that division play occurs entirely during the week whereas other more localized tournaments have taken place on weekends when they were onsite.
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I just hope that Grubby wont get invited based on votes. He doesnt deserve it yet.
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On February 22 2011 10:34 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
Probably missing something about this rule but can't figure out what.
I assume this ties into their desire to create a backstory and allow for more teams overall to have players in it for better chances at rivalry or whatever.
Then again... Jinro and MC led to Photoshop shenanigans and people found that interesting.
If the rule ends up being unnecessary, I don't see why they wouldn't change it.
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my life is now complete. So exited!
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On February 22 2011 15:46 iCCup.Raelcun wrote:
Just seems weird to have 50 invites and only one person gets in via the open slot idk seems better to open that up a bit more seeing as with the prize pool that open tour would be stacked and a lot of people will have to be turned away or it will just be way too big.
I think this is mostly a compromise between their desires to involve as many people as possible and their desire to keep the production values and entertainment values as high as possible.
Especially in the first season, the fewer points of failure there are, the better. If things do work out, if the open qualifier does well or seems to work well with their production, I can see them opening it up to more in the future. I just think that for the first season they will mostly be focusing on just getting the smoothest running, highest quality production they can and eliminating as many variables as possible facilitates that.
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Sounds awesome, can't wait. I'll put some money down for sure to watch season 1 & 2 if they're remotely close to what's being described.
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On February 22 2011 15:45 Essentia wrote:
Yeah its not like the NBA puts a "cap" on the amount of African Americans that are allowed to play in their league.
Those 'African Americans' are actually Americans, not Africans...
So there's no reason for NBA to put a cap on their participation unless somehow you want to reclassify them as foreigners. Which I'd like to point out is rather racist.
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Saw this questioned asked but not answered: Who is the main sponsor?
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They should get Day9 for this? Why isn't the best caster invited to cast it?
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On February 22 2011 16:29 kmkg wrote:
Saw this questioned asked but not answered: Who is the main sponsor?
Maybe there isn't an answer if it hasn't been answered yet. There was no mention of the main sponsor. Just funding by gosucoaching or something.
There was only speculation abotu Incontrol having some discussions with intel, but i doubt Intel would sponsor this because of GSL.
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If you read it jimmy, he was invited, it's scheduling conflicts but don't worry it seemed in the interview that he will definitely be there for the more important matches but not necessarily daily
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On February 22 2011 15:43 Pcl.Busted wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 15:21 mufin wrote:On February 22 2011 14:05 IamAnton wrote:
"Incontrol stated that perhaps there will be a cap on Koreans at five max." LOL
that would be such a terrible idea... Let the best players in the world compete plz.. Yea and what happens when 30+ koreans decide to move over and take over the top 16 of the tournament. You now have a north american tournament filled with all korean players. Does that sound like a good way to get western esports on the right track? People want to watch players they can connect with; players that share their same culture and language. The league's purpose is to create the competitive environment needed for the west to catch up to the korean scene, not to determine who the best korean is. Think of it as just one giant TSL tournament. Thats called incentive, if the South Korean's are the best in the world then they are the best in the world and everyone else is just gonna have to get better. If not then its no better then male and female tournaments. The best should be aloud to compete no matter their race, sex or nationality. Sounds like you want easy mode.
you fail to see the bigger picture. Do you really think from a business stand point that the NASL would have more success with koreans occupying the top 16 spots? It would just be GSL, but with different casters. If I wanted to watch GSL I would watch GSL.
To put it into perspective, say my friend recommended me to watch the NASL. Would I be more likely to keep watching if I saw players that spoke my language and shared my culture or if I saw players that needed to be paired with a translator at all times? Theirs a reason why koreans have less fans in the western world then foreign players and its certainly not because foreigners are the better players.
Simply put, if NASL wants to grow, it has to cater to its audience. Just like GSL caters to foreigners (code A seeds, housing, etc...) because they know thats what their viewership wants to see. Its just good business, sorry.
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If i understand it correctly, start of the league we will have 50 players, and the final 16 will be in a sort of lan. All of this will be casted live.
With this much money on the line, i dont see how they are gonna stop people from cheating while playing. Isnt it 2 easy to watch the stream and play at the same time?
If i am correct i am predicting alot of "just when you say he is going to expand he sends out a scout, this guy has amazing game sense".
I cant say i am overly exited about this mostly because of childish behavior Incontrol and Idra put on during the code a matches yesterday. (ref: calling huk a loser and laughing, making fun of the accent of kelly). And if you are going to charge about the same money as gsl, I would presume you are confident that you are going to reach the same production quality. I think these are very very high standards.
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I have a few concerns, although i am excited for the NASL. First of all why isnt there just a preliminary tournament to decide who the best players are for the tournament, something similair to the gsl. Basically this means the top 10 teams in the eyes of incontrol and whoever else is behind the scenes will be in the tournament, I am quite discouraged by this as its a popularity contest why not have preliminary's and see who the 10 best teams really are instead of it just being the 10 best teams according to someone.
Also this 1000 man qualifier tournament is kind of discouraging for only 1 spot, the top 5 at least should make it into the tournament, or it should be seperated into 5 groups and the players that make it to the final from each group get to participate in the grand finals. I dunno im just not to excited about someone choosing who the best teams are. When there are players out there on smaller teams or no teams who could easily put up a fight and make it through the tournament who arent on one of the most "prestigious" teams.
Obviously incontrol is putting himself in this tournament, im not saying he doesnt deserve it, but could you name 5 players on EG who deserve it more?
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I REALLLLLLLLLLLLLY wish that there were qualifying tournaments and I hope that they are not heavily relying on votes.
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On February 22 2011 16:37 likeaboss wrote:
I REALLLLLLLLLLLLLY wish that there were qualifying tournaments and I hope that they are not heavily relying on votes.
as incontrol stated, the votes are just to get the community involved it has 0 impact on the actual invites.
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On February 22 2011 16:36 betaV1.25 wrote:
If i understand it correctly, start of the league we will have 50 players, and the final 16 will be in a sort of lan. All of this will be casted live.
With this much money on the line, i dont see how they are gonna stop people from cheating while playing. Isnt it 2 easy to watch the stream and play at the same time?
If i am correct i am predicting alot of "just when you say he is going to expand he sends out a scout, this guy has amazing game sense".
I cant say i am overly exited about this mostly because of childish behavior Incontrol and Idra put on during the code a matches yesterday. (ref: calling huk a loser and laughing, making fun of the accent of kelly). And if you are going to charge about the same money as gsl, I would presume you are confident that you are going to reach the same production quality. I think these are very very high standards.
I totally agree with this cheating will be prevalent in this tournament another reason its not as exciting is that there isnt a studio for these players to play in having a studio with sound proof booths makes it 1000x more legit and more personal as you get to see reactions on players faces as they win or lose, and the ceremonies they may perform, the whole online tournament thing was kind of anti climactic
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On February 22 2011 16:36 mufin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 15:43 Pcl.Busted wrote:On February 22 2011 15:21 mufin wrote:On February 22 2011 14:05 IamAnton wrote:
"Incontrol stated that perhaps there will be a cap on Koreans at five max." LOL
that would be such a terrible idea... Let the best players in the world compete plz.. Yea and what happens when 30+ koreans decide to move over and take over the top 16 of the tournament. You now have a north american tournament filled with all korean players. Does that sound like a good way to get western esports on the right track? People want to watch players they can connect with; players that share their same culture and language. The league's purpose is to create the competitive environment needed for the west to catch up to the korean scene, not to determine who the best korean is. Think of it as just one giant TSL tournament. Thats called incentive, if the South Korean's are the best in the world then they are the best in the world and everyone else is just gonna have to get better. If not then its no better then male and female tournaments. The best should be aloud to compete no matter their race, sex or nationality. Sounds like you want easy mode. you fail to see the bigger picture. Do you really think from a business stand point that the NASL would have more success with koreans occupying the top 16 spots? It would just be GSL, but with different casters. If I wanted to watch GSL I would watch GSL. To put it into perspective, say my friend recommended me to watch the NASL. Would I be more likely to keep watching if I saw players that spoke my language and shared my culture or if I saw players that needed to be paired with a translator at all times? Theirs a reason why koreans have less fans in the western world then foreign players and its certainly not because foreigners are the better players. Simply put, if NASL wants to grow, it has to cater to its audience. Just like GSL caters to foreigners (code A seeds, housing, etc...) because they know thats what their viewership wants to see. Its just good business, sorry.
From a business standpoint I think this organization should be playing the best players in the world, whoever they should be. They can't ever advertise they are a premier organization if they protect their players from real competition.
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On February 22 2011 15:55 hitman133 wrote:Wow, big fucking prize pools. This will make SC2 more and more interesting with countless tourney everyweek! Hehe, now I know why IdrA withdrew from GSL
its not like this tournament is starting next week there is no reason idra couldnt play through gsl march, hes just a scaredy cat imo, hes still in korea why isnt he playing tonight?
lame
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If this is done correctly it will be amazing for esports. G4 is my only concern so far.
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I'll donate 25$ to help out a starving kid in Africa, and if I have leftovers I'll consider buying a ticket.
Happy?
Although to be fair you can donate to people outside of Africa too!
heheh
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On February 22 2011 15:45 Essentia wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 15:43 Pcl.Busted wrote:On February 22 2011 15:21 mufin wrote:On February 22 2011 14:05 IamAnton wrote:
"Incontrol stated that perhaps there will be a cap on Koreans at five max." LOL
that would be such a terrible idea... Let the best players in the world compete plz.. Yea and what happens when 30+ koreans decide to move over and take over the top 16 of the tournament. You now have a north american tournament filled with all korean players. Does that sound like a good way to get western esports on the right track? People want to watch players they can connect with; players that share their same culture and language. The league's purpose is to create the competitive environment needed for the west to catch up to the korean scene, not to determine who the best korean is. Think of it as just one giant TSL tournament. Thats called incentive, if the South Korean's are the best in the world then they are the best in the world and everyone else is just gonna have to get better. If not then its no better then male and female tournaments. The best should be aloud to compete no matter their race, sex or nationality. Sounds like you want easy mode. Yeah its not like the NBA puts a "cap" on the amount of African Americans that are allowed to play in their league.
But this happens in many other sports outside of North America. There is usually a cap of foreigners so teams can't buy cheap players from other countrys and then fill a whole team with them, because if that was the case domestic players would never have a chance to break through professionaly and get a spot in a team=/=league in their own country. So NASL do this so western esports can grow bigger and hopefully give us some new great players in the scene so why would we want a bunch of koreans to come here and take over a massive amount of spots?
Also, with NASL they clearly want western esports to be superior in Starcraft 2, so thats also a good reason to not invite a huge amount of koreans for now.
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On February 22 2011 16:44 cheesemaster wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 15:55 hitman133 wrote:Wow, big fucking prize pools. This will make SC2 more and more interesting with countless tourney everyweek! Hehe, now I know why IdrA withdrew from GSL its not like this tournament is starting next week there is no reason idra couldnt play through gsl march, hes just a scaredy cat imo, hes still in korea why isnt he playing tonight? lame
Hes gotta do more than just move there and play hes gonna be living in the us for a while so im sure he has a shit ton off things he will need to do before worrying about playing sc2
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Gretorp, Diggity?
Where the F are HD and Husky?
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Wait is this is an online tournament? Screw that. I was very seriously thinking about dropping my monthly fees for GSL to pay for NASL, but this whole online thing with lan finals just doesn't sit right with me. The most obvious reason is fairness, but a bigger problem is you just lose so much of what makes tournaments great. I think incontrol himself said there's just an atmosphere around lans that makes lans more difficult and it is that atmosphere that makes tournaments so awesome.
When I watch GSL or MLG I get to see those players live preparing right before that match and right behind them a crowd waiting and watching to see what he can do. That right there is a bigger story then any caster can make up about a player. When I watch online tournaments I just picture two people playing a game in their dark bedrooms in their pajamas and there's just nothing epic about that. I don't think any amount of crappy webcam interviews could fix that.
The sad thing is I know there is no way around it right now. You can't ask people to move somewhere for 9 whole weeks and the weekend tournament that MLG does sucks because they can't cast all the games and your favorite player might get kicked out in the first round due any number of reason leaving you hard to get invested.
Actually before I wrote this post I fully believed in the E-Sports is going to become big in NA in the future, but now I made myself sad because I no longer think that will be the case any time soon. Of course if they could get this tournament running off lan I'll be right there, for now I guess I'll keep with GSL.
(obviously when i say lan i mean same room, not actually lan thanks to blizzard)
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Does anyone know when the actual player list will be announced
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Now I have something to watch while I'm not studying/masterbating.
But more on the serious side. This is great for Esports and Starcraft as a whole. Incontrol in all honesty just ignore (which I'm sure you are) the negative feedback coming from the part of the community that can't even surpass the inflated 3k diamond mark. This is the biggest consistent large prize pool I have ever seen (and I have been following many games for a very long time) and for people to reign on it because of the title "World Champion" and the qualifying phase being online is just stupid. I look forward to this and I thank you Geoff and everyone else behind this that worked their ass off to give SC2 the biggest video game tournaments in history.
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Meh personally I don't think I will even bother to watch much of this. I mean after watching the latest two GSL and the GSTL it's kinda taken away the fun from watching sub par players. Also to pay for two streams seems a bit too much for me at least.
Also the limit of five players from each team seems really stupid as well as the limit on koreans.
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On February 22 2011 16:29 kmkg wrote:
Saw this questioned asked but not answered: Who is the main sponsor?
Who's behind everything? Is it GosuCoaching?
The owner of Coaching, Russ, he is the mastermind. This is his baby. He partnered with a USC law school graduate named Duncan who's kind of an eSports newbie, he saw a nice business venture and he's excited and learning more about eSports and they backed it and created it. Like I said, this is laying down the infrastructure and the tracks for eSports growing in the West. So even with this and the tight lips we've been kind of doing...I can't say we've been completely quiet about it as we've been teasing everybody, but there's been a lot of interest generated from business individuals that want to get inside on this because a lot of people have been waiting to do it and try to step forward and work it out so right now it's solely their enterprise but it's definitely growing as we speak.
Why did they decide to fund you guys?
Well they didn't fund us, they did it themselves, and then they brought me on board to be the figurehead basically. And they brought in a few other people because they have good eSports minds. They couldn't do it without us and I couldn't do it without them.
Edit-
This question is probably going be ask again and again but this is all we have at the moment. In all reality things are only going be clear after MLG Dallas and NASL gets going. I'm sure they're looking for additional sponsors all the time but the website makes it pretty clear it's blizzard.
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This is such amazing news.
The advantage Korea has is that they the SC community there is in a condensed area. Therefore, they are able to hold events on-site with everybody there in person, with an audience to watch. However, such a situation is not feasible in North America, because the community is spread out over such a large area.
This is pretty much the best it gets for us. This is a full-on season, not just a couple-day tournament every month or two, which is great. Then there's a live 16 player tournament for those that reach the "playoffs". I really like the season format over the single tournament format; it's a better showcase of skill then just who gets lucky over a few games in 1-2 days
This isn't just a few guys sitting in their room saying "hay guyz, lets start a SC2 league!". This is a financially-backed, professionally-run league that I think is going to have a huge impact on the SC2 esports scene.
Just curious, what's their rule on extended series? ;p
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On February 22 2011 16:52 thepotatoman wrote:
Wait is this is an online tournament? Screw that. I was very seriously thinking about dropping my monthly fees for GSL to pay for NASL, but this whole online thing with lan finals just doesn't sit right with me. The most obvious reason is fairness, but a bigger problem is you just lose so much of what makes tournaments great. I think incontrol himself said there's just an atmosphere around lans that makes lans more difficult and it is that atmosphere that makes tournaments so awesome.
When I watch GSL or MLG I get to see those players live preparing right before that match and right behind them a crowd waiting and watching to see what he can do. That right there is a bigger story then any caster can make up about a player. When I watch online tournaments I just picture two people playing a game in their dark bedrooms in their pajamas and there's just nothing epic about that. I don't think any amount of crappy webcam interviews could fix that.
The sad thing is I know there is no way around it right now. You can't ask people to move somewhere for 9 whole weeks and the weekend tournament that MLG does sucks because they can't cast all the games and your favorite player might get kicked out in the first round due any number of reason leaving you hard to get invested.
Actually before I wrote this post I fully believed in the E-Sports is going to become big in NA in the future, but now I made myself sad because I no longer think that will be the case any time soon. Of course if they could get this tournament running off lan I'll be right there, for now I guess I'll keep with GSL.
(obviously when i say lan i mean same room, not actually lan thanks to blizzard)
Yea this online tournament does not have nearly as much appeal as watching a live lan event like the gsl. there is no way id pay 20 or 25 bucks to watch a online event where there is no crowd, no players in booths no ceremonies no reactions of the player winning or losing. Its very dissapointing, i mean its a step in the right direction from e sports but if they want to have the highest quality like geoff says, it should be a live tournament for the whole thing, and their should be qualifiers wich decide all the players that make it to the 50 player tournament , not just 1 1000 man qualifier for 1 player, i want to see the BEST players not the best teams just based off a few peoples oppinion and the best players from those teams. The fact that their are no qualifiers for this tournament is going to lower the quality dramatically at least during the 50 player offline portion
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On February 22 2011 16:36 betaV1.25 wrote:
With this much money on the line, i dont see how they are gonna stop people from cheating while playing. Isnt it 2 easy to watch the stream and play at the same time?
I'd be concerned about this as well if I were running the tournament.
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It probably won't be as good as the GSL but i'll buy the tickets to support esport in the west...
for the people that complain and want it to be better... support this league first... it has to start somewhere...
can't really expect people to come to Los Angeles and play in a LAN like the GSL... it's pretty expensive here... there ain't no 1 dollar soju... I bought a bottle at 99 ranch market the other day, it cost $6.99
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On February 22 2011 17:02 cheesemaster wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 16:52 thepotatoman wrote:
Wait is this is an online tournament? Screw that. I was very seriously thinking about dropping my monthly fees for GSL to pay for NASL, but this whole online thing with lan finals just doesn't sit right with me. The most obvious reason is fairness, but a bigger problem is you just lose so much of what makes tournaments great. I think incontrol himself said there's just an atmosphere around lans that makes lans more difficult and it is that atmosphere that makes tournaments so awesome.
When I watch GSL or MLG I get to see those players live preparing right before that match and right behind them a crowd waiting and watching to see what he can do. That right there is a bigger story then any caster can make up about a player. When I watch online tournaments I just picture two people playing a game in their dark bedrooms in their pajamas and there's just nothing epic about that. I don't think any amount of crappy webcam interviews could fix that.
The sad thing is I know there is no way around it right now. You can't ask people to move somewhere for 9 whole weeks and the weekend tournament that MLG does sucks because they can't cast all the games and your favorite player might get kicked out in the first round due any number of reason leaving you hard to get invested.
Actually before I wrote this post I fully believed in the E-Sports is going to become big in NA in the future, but now I made myself sad because I no longer think that will be the case any time soon. Of course if they could get this tournament running off lan I'll be right there, for now I guess I'll keep with GSL.
(obviously when i say lan i mean same room, not actually lan thanks to blizzard) Yea this online tournament does not have nearly as much appeal as watching a live lan event like the gsl. there is no way id pay 20 or 25 bucks to watch a online event where there is no crowd, no players in booths no ceremonies no reactions of the player winning or losing. Its very dissapointing, i mean its a step in the right direction from e sports but if they want to have the highest quality like geoff says, it should be a live tournament for the whole thing, and their should be qualifiers wich decide all the players that make it to the 50 player tournament , not just 1 1000 man qualifier for 1 player, i want to see the BEST players not the best teams just based off a few peoples oppinion and the best players from those teams. The fact that their are no qualifiers for this tournament is going to lower the quality dramatically at least during the 50 player offline portion
Having a live tournament in Los Angeles that takes place over 3 months instantly cuts down the field of players that would be willing to attend, they would pretty much need to be extremely established and have quite a bit more money at hand in order for that to work.
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On February 22 2011 16:55 Hyst3ria wrote:
Now I have something to watch while I'm not studying/masterbating.
But more on the serious side. This is great for Esports and Starcraft as a whole. Incontrol in all honesty just ignore (which I'm sure you are) the negative feedback coming from the part of the community that can't even surpass the inflated 3k diamond mark. This is the biggest consistent large prize pool I have ever seen (and I have been following many games for a very long time) and for people to reign on it because of the title "World Champion" and the qualifying phase being online is just stupid. I look forward to this and I thank you Geoff and everyone else behind this that worked their ass off to give SC2 the biggest video game tournaments in history.
so he should just ignore 90% of the community thats a great idea! He can enjoy the added benifit of having 90% less viewership >< Honestly though they said they were going to listen to the community the community is just voicing their concerns about it, i think its great that a north american star league is starting i just think there are alot of things that need to be worked, out i mean it would be great if they could have a studio to house players LIVE from the get go but its not feasible in a year if it does well im sure that will be a possiblity, but the nasl should listen to the community as that is where they will get the money to continue the NASL
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On February 22 2011 17:08 BraveGhost wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 17:02 cheesemaster wrote:On February 22 2011 16:52 thepotatoman wrote:
Wait is this is an online tournament? Screw that. I was very seriously thinking about dropping my monthly fees for GSL to pay for NASL, but this whole online thing with lan finals just doesn't sit right with me. The most obvious reason is fairness, but a bigger problem is you just lose so much of what makes tournaments great. I think incontrol himself said there's just an atmosphere around lans that makes lans more difficult and it is that atmosphere that makes tournaments so awesome.
When I watch GSL or MLG I get to see those players live preparing right before that match and right behind them a crowd waiting and watching to see what he can do. That right there is a bigger story then any caster can make up about a player. When I watch online tournaments I just picture two people playing a game in their dark bedrooms in their pajamas and there's just nothing epic about that. I don't think any amount of crappy webcam interviews could fix that.
The sad thing is I know there is no way around it right now. You can't ask people to move somewhere for 9 whole weeks and the weekend tournament that MLG does sucks because they can't cast all the games and your favorite player might get kicked out in the first round due any number of reason leaving you hard to get invested.
Actually before I wrote this post I fully believed in the E-Sports is going to become big in NA in the future, but now I made myself sad because I no longer think that will be the case any time soon. Of course if they could get this tournament running off lan I'll be right there, for now I guess I'll keep with GSL.
(obviously when i say lan i mean same room, not actually lan thanks to blizzard) Yea this online tournament does not have nearly as much appeal as watching a live lan event like the gsl. there is no way id pay 20 or 25 bucks to watch a online event where there is no crowd, no players in booths no ceremonies no reactions of the player winning or losing. Its very dissapointing, i mean its a step in the right direction from e sports but if they want to have the highest quality like geoff says, it should be a live tournament for the whole thing, and their should be qualifiers wich decide all the players that make it to the 50 player tournament , not just 1 1000 man qualifier for 1 player, i want to see the BEST players not the best teams just based off a few peoples oppinion and the best players from those teams. The fact that their are no qualifiers for this tournament is going to lower the quality dramatically at least during the 50 player offline portion Having a live tournament in Los Angeles that takes place over 3 months instantly cuts down the field of players that would be willing to attend, they would pretty much need to be extremely established and have quite a bit more money at hand in order for that to work.
totally agree read my post below yours, i think its totally dooable with more money and it would bring in the most dedicated players. but for now i guess it will have to do, with it in this format it just doesnt sit on the same level as the gsl thats all im saying, so the price of 20 dollars wich is double that of the gsl doesnt appeal to me
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The equally exciting news for me is this -
If the lan finals is going to be offline, that means there is potential within SC2 that permits LAN play, and with Blizzard backing this tournament, that means either the functionality already exists and they're going to enable it just for the tournament, or the plan is to open up LAN play in a patch by the time April rolls around.
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On February 22 2011 17:08 BraveGhost wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 17:02 cheesemaster wrote:On February 22 2011 16:52 thepotatoman wrote:
Wait is this is an online tournament? Screw that. I was very seriously thinking about dropping my monthly fees for GSL to pay for NASL, but this whole online thing with lan finals just doesn't sit right with me. The most obvious reason is fairness, but a bigger problem is you just lose so much of what makes tournaments great. I think incontrol himself said there's just an atmosphere around lans that makes lans more difficult and it is that atmosphere that makes tournaments so awesome.
When I watch GSL or MLG I get to see those players live preparing right before that match and right behind them a crowd waiting and watching to see what he can do. That right there is a bigger story then any caster can make up about a player. When I watch online tournaments I just picture two people playing a game in their dark bedrooms in their pajamas and there's just nothing epic about that. I don't think any amount of crappy webcam interviews could fix that.
The sad thing is I know there is no way around it right now. You can't ask people to move somewhere for 9 whole weeks and the weekend tournament that MLG does sucks because they can't cast all the games and your favorite player might get kicked out in the first round due any number of reason leaving you hard to get invested.
Actually before I wrote this post I fully believed in the E-Sports is going to become big in NA in the future, but now I made myself sad because I no longer think that will be the case any time soon. Of course if they could get this tournament running off lan I'll be right there, for now I guess I'll keep with GSL.
(obviously when i say lan i mean same room, not actually lan thanks to blizzard) Yea this online tournament does not have nearly as much appeal as watching a live lan event like the gsl. there is no way id pay 20 or 25 bucks to watch a online event where there is no crowd, no players in booths no ceremonies no reactions of the player winning or losing. Its very dissapointing, i mean its a step in the right direction from e sports but if they want to have the highest quality like geoff says, it should be a live tournament for the whole thing, and their should be qualifiers wich decide all the players that make it to the 50 player tournament , not just 1 1000 man qualifier for 1 player, i want to see the BEST players not the best teams just based off a few peoples oppinion and the best players from those teams. The fact that their are no qualifiers for this tournament is going to lower the quality dramatically at least during the 50 player offline portion Having a live tournament in Los Angeles that takes place over 3 months instantly cuts down the field of players that would be willing to attend, they would pretty much need to be extremely established and have quite a bit more money at hand in order for that to work.
I dont think the quote was directed at me but I share your view. In order to open up this event for as many people as possible the online part is the way to go. I just think they should be casting replays instead of a live online event in order to mittigate the cheating that will occur in the current format.
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On February 22 2011 17:03 tarath wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 16:36 betaV1.25 wrote:
With this much money on the line, i dont see how they are gonna stop people from cheating while playing. Isnt it 2 easy to watch the stream and play at the same time?
I'd be concerned about this as well if I were running the tournament.
3 minute delay on the stream would almost completly negate this, even 5 minutes.... wich im sure is what they will do
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Here's my two cents on this thread:
5 player limit:
I don't see very much wrong with this, because it will give all teams a fairly equal chance to field their players, and much like GSL, it would not be that interesting in my opinion to see teammates kill each other.
The Korean limit:
It is called the North American StarLeague; this gives more foreigners the opportunity to play, and the group sizes are only a specific size to start off with anyways. You won't want to flood NASL with Koreans. There's also the issue of latency from KR to NA, so I think this decision makes complete sense.
Koreans are better than foreigners in every way:
This definitely isn't the way things are now in SC2, because foreigners have proven that they are just as good, maybe even better than some of the top South Korean players out there. Foreign tournaments are much more interesting overall because it's not just aggressive 10 minute games. The styles of the regions are just different, Koreans don't have the "I have the thing that can beat everyone" strategy.
With all of the foreigner tournaments out there, I feel as if the game is much more entertaining outside of Korea, with all of the fan support and just how the games are played out. I think that $25 is a great price for a couple of months of foreign SC2. Foreigners really don't get the credit they deserve in SC2, because of the opinion that people think foreigners are worse at SC transferred from BW.
Production values:
I will say, there have been better productions than the showmatch before. I hope that can get figured out throughout the casts. For example, the forced switch to the commentators due to the audio and the game being out of sync. If this becomes an issue in the future, maybe have a set up to switch to something else (not sure what though D. If only Blizzard could have multiplayer replay viewing...
About the commentators, I really hope since Diggity will be casting, there's a possibility of a comeback of Diggity + Moletrap dual commentaries? OR, If Nestea decided to come over, Cholera and Rise could come out of retirement, and have some fun with Zergbong.
Format:
The group stages seem like a really cool idea, but after a few seasons, hopefully it will settle into having a bigger amount of slots for qualifiers. It's nice to have invites at the beginning to get a solid player-base, but later on, it would be nice to have new faces in the league. Also, with the 10 people per group thing, what would happen if there were more than 10 teams in the future?
Overall, I think this is going to be amazing, I'm looking forward to watching all of these games!!!
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I find it funny how they have this $250 refundable 'BM' fee, yet after watching InControl's stream the other morning during the GSL Code A Matches, him, and Idra were HORRIBLE to Kelly, mocking her accent, making fun of her analysis, and just flat out BM towards the whole thing.
I don't know if I really want to be apart of something that InControl supports because all I see from his channel is a bad attitude towards others. He's like the 'high school jock' that makes fun of everybody because he's "better than everyone else".
I don't like that. I don't want to watch that.
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^^^ Were we watching the same stream? Incontrol's humour lies in satire, he, IdrA and JP thought Kelly was doing a great job after the initial awkwardness of being in front of a huge internet audience.
On February 22 2011 17:13 Dhalphir wrote:
The equally exciting news for me is this -
If the lan finals is going to be offline, that means there is potential within SC2 that permits LAN play, and with Blizzard backing this tournament, that means either the functionality already exists and they're going to enable it just for the tournament, or the plan is to open up LAN play in a patch by the time April rolls around.
All the players will still be connected to the internet. There is no LAN in SC2 at this time. All "offline" means in this case is "You can see your opponent in person."
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On February 22 2011 17:17 SleepTech wrote:
I find it funny how they have this $250 refundable 'BM' fee, yet after watching InControl's stream the other morning during the GSL Code A Matches, him, and Idra were HORRIBLE to Kelly, mocking her accent, making fun of her analysis, and just flat out BM towards the whole thing.
I don't know if I really want to be apart of something that InControl supports because all I see from his channel is a bad attitude towards others. He's like the 'high school jock' that makes fun of everybody because he's "better than everyone else".
I don't like that. I don't want to watch that.
I completely agree with you that was so uncalled for, your starting your own league that has had 0 success so far and you go around bashing an established league, its just childish
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So I guess the only question left is if Sixpoolgaming.com is real or was a Red Herring?
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Eh, I don't know too much about the "foreign" scene, but how deep is the NA talent?
What I mean is, if there's a limit on korean players, is there also going to be a limit on EU players etc.?
Because if there is a limit like I'm worried there's going to be Idra, HuK, Select...?
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I am not sure if this has been posted yet, but i am very excited about this!
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16 is a power of 2.
64 is also a power of 2.
50 is not a power of 2.
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On February 22 2011 17:25 composition wrote:
16 is a power of 2.
64 is also a power of 2.
50 is not a power of 2.
Correct me if I'm wrong, But I think it's separated into 5 divisions of 10 players. Eventually maybe the top three in each division qualify, and add in the open tourney qualifier, and that's 16 people.
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pretty sure the cast is gonna be delayed if it is live. Anything more than 5 mins would be enough to ensure the integrity of the game. I think Justin.tv is quite prepared for it as well judging as we can see from the day9 stream thread.
The only problem would be jerks constantly checking match history and spoiling the result in chat.I imagine there will be one or two instances where all the bases are mined out, the outcome is not clear. Final battle to decide all. And some dumbass will " hey i checked the match history, jinro just won 1 min ago"
Hopefully the solution they find will guarantee the best viewing experience possible for the players.
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My only question is how in the world is Day9 not casting the biggest western Starcraft league that just happens to also be located in SoCal?
Listening to Gretorp's fake screams of excitement after each set of last night's showmatch was unbearable.
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I think the prize pool is a great thing for Western eSports, I'm sure everything will come together with time and experience. I'm sure if things go wellwe will see soundproof booths, we will see more games live, I'm sure they'll be able to afford studios and all the fancy stuff like GSL has. For now I think the focus on a large prize pool will be an important thing to solidify eSports in the west as something viable.
You tell people that don't understand Starcraft about GSL and they are like "wait, you watch koreans play video games?" then you tell them the winner gets ~$50,000 and they suddenly seem to think that it's less useless. The prize pool attracts the best players, the best players attract the biggest audience, the biggest audience is the thing that will solidify NASL and get increased financial support in the future for improvements.
They have stated they are willing to listen to fan feedback, and I'm sure it will only get better with time. For now there is a $100,000 tournament in North America, why are people insisting on making out this is a bad thing?
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On February 22 2011 17:33 Turb0 wrote:
My only question is how in the world is Day9 not casting the biggest western Starcraft league that just happens to also be located in SoCal?
Listening to Gretorp's fake screams of excitement after each set of last night's showmatch was unbearable.
How about reading the interview? Geoff said:
And then Day9 was approached early on in the process but take it from his perspective. The guy has every hour of his life booked solid. So when this fledgling league comes in and says “hey, trying to do something super awesome, do you want to be a part of it?” and he's like “Uh, do I want to commit three months to something that's just starting, when I have my entire life sold out?” So understandably, he was like “Sure, talk to me when you get to the finals.” But hopefully as it grows, and it's pretty evident that it is a big stage, we'll get Day9 involved because he is the big commentator. There's just no question about it. I'd love to say I am the guy that is Day9 but I'm not, it's Day9.
day[9] is a busy guy since he is about to graduate from school and already doing other SC2 related things.
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Thanks for the show, I really enjoyed the games.
However,
There should be a requirement/license for people aspiring to cast tournaments/events to attend a 2 days crash course with djWHEAT on casting and production fundamentals.
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...every player is supposed to be backed by a $250 refundable fee. Essentially what it is, is every time they're rude or they're late or any kind of unforeseeable problems occur they'll be penalized $25 or $50 and that comes out of the refundable fee of course. But most people, hopefully all, will be completely and immaculately fine and will get that $250 back. But the idea is to make them accountable.
It's a good idea to make players accountable, it's a bad idea to discourage any type of showboating. Celebrity will be important (it's awesome that backstory is being encouraged) if this is to continue gaining popularity. There are many people out there who want to see some "bad manner" every now and again, hell look at what made -orb-'s stream popular during beta, football celebrations, or even LeBron James when he was changing teams from Cleveland. People love some showmanship, even if that means someone has to be the bad-guy sometimes.
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On February 22 2011 17:25 composition wrote:
16 is a power of 2.
64 is also a power of 2.
50 is not a power of 2.
fail
User was warned for this post
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On February 22 2011 16:36 mufin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 15:43 Pcl.Busted wrote:On February 22 2011 15:21 mufin wrote:On February 22 2011 14:05 IamAnton wrote:
"Incontrol stated that perhaps there will be a cap on Koreans at five max." LOL
that would be such a terrible idea... Let the best players in the world compete plz.. Yea and what happens when 30+ koreans decide to move over and take over the top 16 of the tournament. You now have a north american tournament filled with all korean players. Does that sound like a good way to get western esports on the right track? People want to watch players they can connect with; players that share their same culture and language. The league's purpose is to create the competitive environment needed for the west to catch up to the korean scene, not to determine who the best korean is. Think of it as just one giant TSL tournament. Thats called incentive, if the South Korean's are the best in the world then they are the best in the world and everyone else is just gonna have to get better. If not then its no better then male and female tournaments. The best should be aloud to compete no matter their race, sex or nationality. Sounds like you want easy mode. you fail to see the bigger picture. Do you really think from a business stand point that the NASL would have more success with koreans occupying the top 16 spots? It would just be GSL, but with different casters. If I wanted to watch GSL I would watch GSL. To put it into perspective, say my friend recommended me to watch the NASL. Would I be more likely to keep watching if I saw players that spoke my language and shared my culture or if I saw players that needed to be paired with a translator at all times? Theirs a reason why koreans have less fans in the western world then foreign players and its certainly not because foreigners are the better players. Simply put, if NASL wants to grow, it has to cater to its audience. Just like GSL caters to foreigners (code A seeds, housing, etc...) because they know thats what their viewership wants to see. Its just good business, sorry.
I really like to think that the Starcraft 2 community is better then that. We aren't a group of racist cultural elitists. We play Starcraft 2 for the comradery we have with our Starcraft 2 brothers. Culture, language, sex, and country of origin shouldn't be factors in Starcraft 2 tournaments, those things really don't matter. We all play Starcraft 2 because we all love Starcraft 2. Maybe I'm naive and idealistic but shouldn't we put our brotherhood as Starcraft 2 players above greed and set an example for the rest of our world. Many of the smartest most logical people on the planet are a part of this community. Why can't we look past culture and creed or better yet learn about each others cultures(look at Team Liquid and OGS). We aren't Americans, Asians, Europeans or anything else we are Starcraft 2 players.
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Yer gretorp and Incontrol aren't the greatest actors in the world, hopefully they can pull out some sincere excitement when casting NASL.
btw Incontrol, there's such a thing as overhype dude.
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On February 22 2011 17:38 zOula... wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 17:25 composition wrote:
16 is a power of 2.
64 is also a power of 2.
50 is not a power of 2. fail
How so?
2
4
8
16
32
64
i don't see 50
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I am worried about stream quality since justintv is involved >< Showmatch was lagging uber hard for most Europe, US seemed ok. I couldnt even watch in 240p and went to sleep after first game. jtv must really improve for europe, or if its gonna freeze after 10k viewers again, it wont be good for premium sales
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On February 22 2011 17:44 norecha wrote:
I am worried about stream quality since justintv is involved >< Showmatch was lagging uber hard for most Europe, US seemed ok. I couldnt even watch in 240p and went to sleep after first game. jtv must really improve for europe, or if its gonna freeze after 10k viewers again, it wont be good for premium sales
I am worried too. But since JustinTV is working pretty hard on Esports right know (day9TV etc), who knows if they start to support NASL aswell.
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On February 22 2011 17:42 don_kyuhote wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 17:38 zOula... wrote:On February 22 2011 17:25 composition wrote:
16 is a power of 2.
64 is also a power of 2.
50 is not a power of 2. fail How so? 2 4 8 16 32 64 i don't see 50
I think it might not be elimination / tournament style but more of a league/ round robin style.
50 people spread into 5 groups for example. Top 3 of each group goes through. Seems unlikely they will make everyone play each other because that will be way too many games.
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On February 22 2011 17:44 norecha wrote:
I am worried about stream quality since justintv is involved >< Showmatch was lagging uber hard for most Europe, US seemed ok. I couldnt even watch in 240p and went to sleep after first game. jtv must really improve for europe, or if its gonna freeze after 10k viewers again, it wont be good for premium sales
Well, you are pretty much in asia tbf.
I've never had connection problems with justintv.
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I just hope they increase the production value. The show-match production was horrible.
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On February 22 2011 17:38 Pcl.Busted wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 16:36 mufin wrote:On February 22 2011 15:43 Pcl.Busted wrote:On February 22 2011 15:21 mufin wrote:On February 22 2011 14:05 IamAnton wrote:
"Incontrol stated that perhaps there will be a cap on Koreans at five max." LOL
that would be such a terrible idea... Let the best players in the world compete plz.. Yea and what happens when 30+ koreans decide to move over and take over the top 16 of the tournament. You now have a north american tournament filled with all korean players. Does that sound like a good way to get western esports on the right track? People want to watch players they can connect with; players that share their same culture and language. The league's purpose is to create the competitive environment needed for the west to catch up to the korean scene, not to determine who the best korean is. Think of it as just one giant TSL tournament. Thats called incentive, if the South Korean's are the best in the world then they are the best in the world and everyone else is just gonna have to get better. If not then its no better then male and female tournaments. The best should be aloud to compete no matter their race, sex or nationality. Sounds like you want easy mode. you fail to see the bigger picture. Do you really think from a business stand point that the NASL would have more success with koreans occupying the top 16 spots? It would just be GSL, but with different casters. If I wanted to watch GSL I would watch GSL. To put it into perspective, say my friend recommended me to watch the NASL. Would I be more likely to keep watching if I saw players that spoke my language and shared my culture or if I saw players that needed to be paired with a translator at all times? Theirs a reason why koreans have less fans in the western world then foreign players and its certainly not because foreigners are the better players. Simply put, if NASL wants to grow, it has to cater to its audience. Just like GSL caters to foreigners (code A seeds, housing, etc...) because they know thats what their viewership wants to see. Its just good business, sorry. I really like to think that the Starcraft 2 community is better then that. We aren't a group of racist cultural elitists. We play Starcraft 2 for the comradery we have with our Starcraft 2 brothers. Culture, language, sex, and country of origin shouldn't be factors in Starcraft 2 tournaments, those things really don't matter. We all play Starcraft 2 because we all love Starcraft 2. Maybe I'm naive and idealistic but shouldn't we put our brotherhood as Starcraft 2 players above greed and set an example for the rest of our world. Many of the smartest most logical people on the planet are a part of this community. Why can't we look past culture and creed or better yet learn about each others cultures(look at Team Liquid and OGS). We aren't Americans, Asians, Europeans or anything else we are Starcraft 2 players.
So who won the German "Bundesliga" last year? Right, you don't care because it's germany.
Most people care in the first place about what is local to them, what they know and can relate to. Yes, most SC(2) players can relate to koreans, because we have a tradition. New members of the community that might just want to watch and have no such tradition don't care about korea - well, except maybe they worry about north korea blowing them up - or any korean progamers.
To promote E-Sports, we have to touch the "i can relate to that" part of people that are not in the community (yet).
I think the NASL is a big chance and i'd love to see something similar in EU(or better directly in Germany).
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Will be interesting to see if this attracts players from Europe who were "interested" in going to GSL but decided not to because it was too big of a commitment to stay in Korea for a long time. Especially since the competition was/is so heavy.
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Didnt they say 9 weeks of group play? It all makes sense.
50 players (confirmed)
5 group / 10 players each group (confirmed)
5 matches each day, 25 each week (confirmed)
Each player plays 9 matches in his group
So first day all from group 1 can play 1 game
2nd day all from group 1 can play their 2nd game
Group one takes 9 days to play out
5 groups take 45 days to play out
45 days is...... 9 weeks!!!!
Confirm/deny?
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On February 22 2011 17:40 Skitz wrote:
Yer gretorp and Incontrol aren't the greatest actors in the world, hopefully they can pull out some sincere excitement when casting NASL.
btw Incontrol, there's such a thing as overhype dude.
yea he overhyped this to the max i think thats why so many ppl are dissapointed, i was expecting a live studio just like the gsl, i was not expecting an online tournament, sure the prize pool is great (not as great as the gsl as its over 3 months) but online tournaments are just so much less entertaining then live lans. Also incontrol and gretorp casting, im cringing so hard right now, day 9 HD husky they all live around there im pretty sure all of them would be more appropriate for casting.
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On February 22 2011 17:59 Morfildur wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 17:38 Pcl.Busted wrote:On February 22 2011 16:36 mufin wrote:On February 22 2011 15:43 Pcl.Busted wrote:On February 22 2011 15:21 mufin wrote:On February 22 2011 14:05 IamAnton wrote:
"Incontrol stated that perhaps there will be a cap on Koreans at five max." LOL
that would be such a terrible idea... Let the best players in the world compete plz.. Yea and what happens when 30+ koreans decide to move over and take over the top 16 of the tournament. You now have a north american tournament filled with all korean players. Does that sound like a good way to get western esports on the right track? People want to watch players they can connect with; players that share their same culture and language. The league's purpose is to create the competitive environment needed for the west to catch up to the korean scene, not to determine who the best korean is. Think of it as just one giant TSL tournament. Thats called incentive, if the South Korean's are the best in the world then they are the best in the world and everyone else is just gonna have to get better. If not then its no better then male and female tournaments. The best should be aloud to compete no matter their race, sex or nationality. Sounds like you want easy mode. you fail to see the bigger picture. Do you really think from a business stand point that the NASL would have more success with koreans occupying the top 16 spots? It would just be GSL, but with different casters. If I wanted to watch GSL I would watch GSL. To put it into perspective, say my friend recommended me to watch the NASL. Would I be more likely to keep watching if I saw players that spoke my language and shared my culture or if I saw players that needed to be paired with a translator at all times? Theirs a reason why koreans have less fans in the western world then foreign players and its certainly not because foreigners are the better players. Simply put, if NASL wants to grow, it has to cater to its audience. Just like GSL caters to foreigners (code A seeds, housing, etc...) because they know thats what their viewership wants to see. Its just good business, sorry. I really like to think that the Starcraft 2 community is better then that. We aren't a group of racist cultural elitists. We play Starcraft 2 for the comradery we have with our Starcraft 2 brothers. Culture, language, sex, and country of origin shouldn't be factors in Starcraft 2 tournaments, those things really don't matter. We all play Starcraft 2 because we all love Starcraft 2. Maybe I'm naive and idealistic but shouldn't we put our brotherhood as Starcraft 2 players above greed and set an example for the rest of our world. Many of the smartest most logical people on the planet are a part of this community. Why can't we look past culture and creed or better yet learn about each others cultures(look at Team Liquid and OGS). We aren't Americans, Asians, Europeans or anything else we are Starcraft 2 players. So who won the German "Bundesliga" last year? Right, you don't care because it's germany. Most people care in the first place about what is local to them, what they know and can relate to. Yes, most SC(2) players can relate to koreans, because we have a tradition. New members of the community that might just want to watch and have no such tradition don't care about korea - well, except maybe they worry about north korea blowing them up - or any korean progamers. To promote E-Sports, we have to touch the "i can relate to that" part of people that are not in the community (yet). I think the NASL is a big chance and i'd love to see something similar in EU(or better directly in Germany).
I don't watch football I watch starcraft I don't know who won the Superbowl or the World Series of Baseball either. I know who won the ESWC. I'm not saying everyone should care about everything. I'm saying Starcraft 2 should cross racial and cultural barriers. The world cup and the Olympics do it why not Starcraft 2.
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On February 22 2011 18:02 cheesemaster wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 17:40 Skitz wrote:
Yer gretorp and Incontrol aren't the greatest actors in the world, hopefully they can pull out some sincere excitement when casting NASL.
btw Incontrol, there's such a thing as overhype dude. yea he overhyped this to the max i think thats why so many ppl are dissapointed, i was expecting a live studio just like the gsl, i was not expecting an online tournament, sure the prize pool is great (not as great as the gsl as its over 3 months) but online tournaments are just so much less entertaining then live lans. Also incontrol and gretorp casting, im cringing so hard right now, day 9 HD husky they all live around there im pretty sure all of them would be more appropriate for casting.
Except the first time Husky would cast, the automated ban list would get an overflow from all the husky hate/love threads that would pop up.
I'm 100% sure Day9 will cast the finals, no matter how busy he is, he just can't miss that opportunity, there is no way for that.
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Lol. That's great. That's actually very great
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On February 22 2011 18:02 cheesemaster wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 17:40 Skitz wrote:
Yer gretorp and Incontrol aren't the greatest actors in the world, hopefully they can pull out some sincere excitement when casting NASL.
btw Incontrol, there's such a thing as overhype dude. yea he overhyped this to the max i think thats why so many ppl are dissapointed, i was expecting a live studio just like the gsl, i was not expecting an online tournament, sure the prize pool is great (not as great as the gsl as its over 3 months) but online tournaments are just so much less entertaining then live lans. Also incontrol and gretorp casting, im cringing so hard right now, day 9 HD husky they all live around there im pretty sure all of them would be more appropriate for casting.
Please.. please.. please, do not throw incontrol and gretorp under the bus like that and name HD as someone who should cast over them. Also when you make comments like Day9 should be casting. (They tried and at the moment he is way to busy with pre-booked casting jobs as stated by Gretorp). Husky is good, I really do like him but am I the only person that finds him more of a one man show? The guy just talks so damn fast sometimes and the level of excitement he brings I don't think can randomly be turned off in one second to let someone speak for 5 seconds and then have husky go off in a higher pitched voice.. haha, anyways, just my two cents.
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Yes. There's going to be a free low quality stream that will be made available to everybody... And then there will be a premium channel which is going to be behind a pay wall but made very very cheap. A whole season we're looking at maybe $20 to $25.
How is 25$ for ONE season very very cheap?
Oh well not like i would pay for a Jtv stream anyways since they are unwatchable in Europe.... sigh.
Whoever suggested HD or Husky should be shot.
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Yes, so exited! This will be great! I'm def. buying the premium to support this!
+1
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On February 22 2011 17:13 Dhalphir wrote:
The equally exciting news for me is this -
If the lan finals is going to be offline, that means there is potential within SC2 that permits LAN play, and with Blizzard backing this tournament, that means either the functionality already exists and they're going to enable it just for the tournament, or the plan is to open up LAN play in a patch by the time April rolls around.
Umm they already do this for the GSL? And that has been around for 4+ months now..
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iNcontroL brings amazing tournament to America.
Assholes on TL shit on the idea. WTF?
The thing about a LAN tournament in America is that it's impossible to try to spread it out over a few months and actually expect people to show up in person. Last time I checked the US is about 10 million square miles and South Korea is a mere 40,000. It costs a lot of money for people to travel and stay at a place that's anywhere from a few hundred to a couple thousand miles away. An online tournament just makes more sense logistically.
Also, Day9 is an extremely busy man and the SC2 community often takes him for granted. The guy is about to graduate with a master's degree in a couple of months and you people are shitting on him for not immediately jumping on board as a full time caster for this event.
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On February 22 2011 13:07 FXOpen wrote:
Being fined for 'unforeseeable problems' is just awesome! Honestly, if a snow storm goes through someones area and they cant log on, you are going to make them pay for it? Don't you think thats just a little bit silly?
Was also my initial reaction, but after thinking about it a bit, it makes perfect sense.
Having something like a "negligence"-rule wouldn't really work since it would be impossible to track for US-guys if the claimed snow storm really happened or - more importantly - did really cause the connection problems.
It's also what happens in everyday's modern trade contracts: having to pay a contractual penalty if you don't deliver in time. "Delivery" in this case would be showing up and play, since everything depends on matches being played on time. Everyone who has tried to follow black dragon league knows how annoying it is, when matches are constantly rescheduled because one guy just doesn't feel like playing (at least it appears to be this way considering the massive amount of rescheduled playdays).
It's an online event and the success of this whole thing depends on players showing up.
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And about the price... It is 25$for 10 weeks right? and the gsl is 10 $ for 4 weeks so i think its a pretty good price
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On February 22 2011 18:14 aderum wrote:
And about the price... It is 25$for 10 weeks right? and the gsl is 10 $ for 4 weeks so i think its a pretty good price
Agreed, for the amount of content their promising, how can anybody really bitch at the cost. Their basically pumping out just as much if not more games than GSL and I think if you worked it out, it's actually cheaper.
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On February 22 2011 16:29 Jimmy Raynor wrote:
They should get Day9 for this? Why isn't the best caster invited to cast it?
Cause if he did it there would be no more dailies... no more Day9 on big lans and so on?
Also i doubt NASL could pay Day9 enough.
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What about access to VODs?
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How can anyone with a clear mind think about a livestudio with offline games? Western esport is quite different. We are not playing in one town in one country and do nothing else. I think quite a few progamers or most of them have an other job @cheesemaster. That was just a stupid comment from you...
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On February 22 2011 17:38 Pcl.Busted wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 16:36 mufin wrote:On February 22 2011 15:43 Pcl.Busted wrote:On February 22 2011 15:21 mufin wrote:On February 22 2011 14:05 IamAnton wrote:
"Incontrol stated that perhaps there will be a cap on Koreans at five max." LOL
that would be such a terrible idea... Let the best players in the world compete plz.. Yea and what happens when 30+ koreans decide to move over and take over the top 16 of the tournament. You now have a north american tournament filled with all korean players. Does that sound like a good way to get western esports on the right track? People want to watch players they can connect with; players that share their same culture and language. The league's purpose is to create the competitive environment needed for the west to catch up to the korean scene, not to determine who the best korean is. Think of it as just one giant TSL tournament. Thats called incentive, if the South Korean's are the best in the world then they are the best in the world and everyone else is just gonna have to get better. If not then its no better then male and female tournaments. The best should be aloud to compete no matter their race, sex or nationality. Sounds like you want easy mode. you fail to see the bigger picture. Do you really think from a business stand point that the NASL would have more success with koreans occupying the top 16 spots? It would just be GSL, but with different casters. If I wanted to watch GSL I would watch GSL. To put it into perspective, say my friend recommended me to watch the NASL. Would I be more likely to keep watching if I saw players that spoke my language and shared my culture or if I saw players that needed to be paired with a translator at all times? Theirs a reason why koreans have less fans in the western world then foreign players and its certainly not because foreigners are the better players. Simply put, if NASL wants to grow, it has to cater to its audience. Just like GSL caters to foreigners (code A seeds, housing, etc...) because they know thats what their viewership wants to see. Its just good business, sorry. I really like to think that the Starcraft 2 community is better then that. We aren't a group of racist cultural elitists. We play Starcraft 2 for the comradery we have with our Starcraft 2 brothers. Culture, language, sex, and country of origin shouldn't be factors in Starcraft 2 tournaments, those things really don't matter. We all play Starcraft 2 because we all love Starcraft 2. Maybe I'm naive and idealistic but shouldn't we put our brotherhood as Starcraft 2 players above greed and set an example for the rest of our world. Many of the smartest most logical people on the planet are a part of this community. Why can't we look past culture and creed or better yet learn about each others cultures(look at Team Liquid and OGS). We aren't Americans, Asians, Europeans or anything else we are Starcraft 2 players.
meh I don't feel its racist at all. It just goes to show that we are all human and we can't look at everything objectively all the time. Don't get me wrong, I watched the gsl since season 1 and not only did I have blast, I also learned a hell of a lot about korean culture. But on the other hand, I also watched foreign events such as MLG and ESL and I feel its just a better experience when you can identify with the players through their tone of voice and body language. It gives a sense of belonging rather than feeling like an outsider looking through the glass of a translator.
In the future, I believe the community will cheer for players representing their nationality just as they would in the Olympics. Unfortunately for now, the sc2 scene is summed up as koreans vs everyone else. When the western scene gets more established, I feel that "everyone else" is going to be further divided amongst the different nationalities and the diversity of the community will start to play a bigger part.
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On February 22 2011 17:32 dtz wrote:
pretty sure the cast is gonna be delayed if it is live. Anything more than 5 mins would be enough to ensure the integrity of the game. I think Justin.tv is quite prepared for it as well judging as we can see from the day9 stream thread.
The only problem would be jerks constantly checking match history and spoiling the result in chat.I imagine there will be one or two instances where all the bases are mined out, the outcome is not clear. Final battle to decide all. And some dumbass will " hey i checked the match history, jinro just won 1 min ago"
Hopefully the solution they find will guarantee the best viewing experience possible for the players.
good points.
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I just read the interview. This league is going to be huge! I'm really happy for InControL and SC2. Definately gonna watch it.
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On February 22 2011 17:32 dtz wrote:
pretty sure the cast is gonna be delayed if it is live. Anything more than 5 mins would be enough to ensure the integrity of the game. I think Justin.tv is quite prepared for it as well judging as we can see from the day9 stream thread.
The only problem would be jerks constantly checking match history and spoiling the result in chat.I imagine there will be one or two instances where all the bases are mined out, the outcome is not clear. Final battle to decide all. And some dumbass will " hey i checked the match history, jinro just won 1 min ago"
Hopefully the solution they find will guarantee the best viewing experience possible for the players.
Solution is to play on maps that disallow match history info
As for this NASL, I didn't like the casting of the showmatch, it was way below GSL quality. I hope they do better for NASL.
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On February 22 2011 18:16 Shelke14 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 18:14 aderum wrote:
And about the price... It is 25$for 10 weeks right? and the gsl is 10 $ for 4 weeks so i think its a pretty good price Agreed, for the amount of content their promising, how can anybody really bitch at the cost. Their basically pumping out just as much if not more games than GSL and I think if you worked it out, it's actually cheaper.
Imagine if GSL decided to make Code A Ro32 a group stage, with 4 groups of 8, and everyone played a Bo5. In total, there's say 5 times the amount of total games played per season as before (don't care what the actual number is). If GOM decided to make the ticket $40, would you say that's a bargain? Of course not, you get the same amount of games with the top players but more games with the low-level ones.
2 players are advancing from each group of 10. There's not much you can do to convince me to care about the game between the 6th and 8th ranked player.
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Interesting. Looking forward to it
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I wonder if it would be possible to participate in both GSL and NASL due to time zone differences.
If so, I'd love to see IM make a presence ... hehehe. They as a team really impressed me in the team league.
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Whats up with this Zerker guy? I don't know him but ofc he can still be a very strong player but every refresh he gets 8-10 votes while other players barely get them. Smells like somekind of script.
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Wont the 5player per team rule plus that you split up players from same team possibly mess up the seeding procedure and trying to make balanced groups?
I dont know, I've never heard players/teams request group/bracket layouts to avoid team kills. Seems like a natural thing which happens every now and then, no big deal. And if team kills would be made possible due to seeding, the 5player per team rule gets kind of unnecessary.
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On February 22 2011 18:51 Gr33d wrote:
Whats up with this Zerker guy? I don't know him but ofc he can still be a very strong player but every refresh he gets 8-10 votes while other players barely get them. Smells like somekind of script.
It probably is
Every e-sports event with a community voting aspect I can think of has been ruined by bot voting
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I read the interview but not this whole thread, so sorry if this has been answered:
- Who sponsors this event? 400,000$ is a huge sum.
- What's with the player voting process and how does it influence who gets to play? Is the group phase basically an invitational based on voting popularity?
- What's the purpose of the 5 players per team rule? Doesn't that exclude some great players from the big teams, for example Haypro?
- What's the prize distribution? How much does the first place finisher get?
Great announcement, I hope the league turns out well.
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Sounds awesome, don't let the whiners get you down. Just work a little on the production and it will be awesome!
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On February 22 2011 18:32 mufin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 17:38 Pcl.Busted wrote:On February 22 2011 16:36 mufin wrote:On February 22 2011 15:43 Pcl.Busted wrote:On February 22 2011 15:21 mufin wrote:On February 22 2011 14:05 IamAnton wrote:
"Incontrol stated that perhaps there will be a cap on Koreans at five max." LOL
that would be such a terrible idea... Let the best players in the world compete plz.. Yea and what happens when 30+ koreans decide to move over and take over the top 16 of the tournament. You now have a north american tournament filled with all korean players. Does that sound like a good way to get western esports on the right track? People want to watch players they can connect with; players that share their same culture and language. The league's purpose is to create the competitive environment needed for the west to catch up to the korean scene, not to determine who the best korean is. Think of it as just one giant TSL tournament. Thats called incentive, if the South Korean's are the best in the world then they are the best in the world and everyone else is just gonna have to get better. If not then its no better then male and female tournaments. The best should be aloud to compete no matter their race, sex or nationality. Sounds like you want easy mode. you fail to see the bigger picture. Do you really think from a business stand point that the NASL would have more success with koreans occupying the top 16 spots? It would just be GSL, but with different casters. If I wanted to watch GSL I would watch GSL. To put it into perspective, say my friend recommended me to watch the NASL. Would I be more likely to keep watching if I saw players that spoke my language and shared my culture or if I saw players that needed to be paired with a translator at all times? Theirs a reason why koreans have less fans in the western world then foreign players and its certainly not because foreigners are the better players. Simply put, if NASL wants to grow, it has to cater to its audience. Just like GSL caters to foreigners (code A seeds, housing, etc...) because they know thats what their viewership wants to see. Its just good business, sorry. I really like to think that the Starcraft 2 community is better then that. We aren't a group of racist cultural elitists. We play Starcraft 2 for the comradery we have with our Starcraft 2 brothers. Culture, language, sex, and country of origin shouldn't be factors in Starcraft 2 tournaments, those things really don't matter. We all play Starcraft 2 because we all love Starcraft 2. Maybe I'm naive and idealistic but shouldn't we put our brotherhood as Starcraft 2 players above greed and set an example for the rest of our world. Many of the smartest most logical people on the planet are a part of this community. Why can't we look past culture and creed or better yet learn about each others cultures(look at Team Liquid and OGS). We aren't Americans, Asians, Europeans or anything else we are Starcraft 2 players. meh I don't feel its racist at all. It just goes to show that we are all human and we can't look at everything objectively all the time. Don't get me wrong, I watched the gsl since season 1 and not only did I have blast, I also learned a hell of a lot about korean culture. But on the other hand, I also watched foreign events such as MLG and ESL and I feel its just a better experience when you can identify with the players through their tone of voice and body language. It gives a sense of belonging rather than feeling like an outsider looking through the glass of a translator. In the future, I believe the community will cheer for players representing their nationality just as they would in the Olympics. Unfortunately for now, the sc2 scene is summed up as koreans vs everyone else. When the western scene gets more established, I feel that " everyone else" is going to be further divided amongst the different nationalities and the diversity of the community will start to play a bigger part.
Those arguments seem more rational, I guess I like the best possible competition over anything else but your points are also valid.
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I cannot wait for this to launch, this is so huge, thanks Incontrol, Russ, and all the others for making this happen
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On February 22 2011 15:21 mufin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 14:05 IamAnton wrote:
"Incontrol stated that perhaps there will be a cap on Koreans at five max." LOL
that would be such a terrible idea... Let the best players in the world compete plz.. Yea and what happens when 30+ koreans decide to move over and take over the top 16 of the tournament. You now have a north american tournament filled with all korean players. Does that sound like a good way to get western esports on the right track? People want to watch players they can connect with; players that share their same culture and language. The league's purpose is to create the competitive environment needed for the west to catch up to the korean scene, not to determine who the best korean is. Think of it as just one giant TSL tournament.
Then it's the same as feamale gaming.
"We can't compete so we get our own leagues where we can win"
Who watches that? No one
Koreans being good is a terrible argument against them being allowed to play
Same deal with teams. The best players should play, regardless of what team they're on. Who wants to watch a worse player because he's on a different team?
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I can't believe anyone thought this was underwhelming...what more did you want? An exact carbon copy of the GSL? Tip; if you wanna watch the GSL, just watch the GSL.
It's an online tournament until the last 16, where it's a LAN. Obviously because in Korea, it's alright to do a month long LAN because all the progamers live in the same place. Anyone who can't see a problem with doing that in America didn't think for more than 3 seconds.
As for the casters, everyone is entitled to their opinion. But the fact is that anyone who disagrees that Inc and Gretorp are awesome is wrong. That's right, you are entitled to your wrong opinion.
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On February 22 2011 19:12 The KY wrote:
I can't believe anyone thought this was underwhelming...what more did you want? An exact carbon copy of the GSL? Tip; if you wanna watch the GSL, just watch the GSL.
It's an online tournament until the last 16, where it's a LAN. Obviously because in Korea, it's alright to do a month long LAN because all the progamers live in the same place. Anyone who can't see a problem with doing that in America didn't think for more than 3 seconds.
As for the casters, everyone is entitled to their opinion. But the fact is that anyone who disagrees that Inc and Gretorp are awesome is wrong. That's right, you are entitled to your wrong opinion.
I want a non Jtv stream so us Europeans with 30 mbit connections can actually enjoy the livestream without lag.
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On February 22 2011 19:12 The KY wrote:
I can't believe anyone thought this was underwhelming...what more did you want? An exact carbon copy of the GSL? Tip; if you wanna watch the GSL, just watch the GSL.
It's an online tournament until the last 16, where it's a LAN. Obviously because in Korea, it's alright to do a month long LAN because all the progamers live in the same place. Anyone who can't see a problem with doing that in America didn't think for more than 3 seconds.
As for the casters, everyone is entitled to their opinion. But the fact is that anyone who disagrees that Inc and Gretorp are awesome is wrong. That's right, you are entitled to your wrong opinion.
So are you and Ive worked in TV production for 8 years
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I live in Korea and I get to watch GSL games in HD for free, and the VODs for free. For VODs there is just a minute of commericals before the game and there are just commercials in between games when I watch live. Seems like a much better model to me compared to having to pay for it...
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On February 22 2011 19:16 Nizaris wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 19:12 The KY wrote:
I can't believe anyone thought this was underwhelming...what more did you want? An exact carbon copy of the GSL? Tip; if you wanna watch the GSL, just watch the GSL.
It's an online tournament until the last 16, where it's a LAN. Obviously because in Korea, it's alright to do a month long LAN because all the progamers live in the same place. Anyone who can't see a problem with doing that in America didn't think for more than 3 seconds.
As for the casters, everyone is entitled to their opinion. But the fact is that anyone who disagrees that Inc and Gretorp are awesome is wrong. That's right, you are entitled to your wrong opinion. I want a non Jtv stream so us Europeans with 30 mbit connections can actually enjoy the livestream without lag.
I got no problems with jtv.
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I hope they broadcast it GSL stuff, like hairdos before, the live audience and booths!
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On February 22 2011 16:36 betaV1.25 wrote:
If i understand it correctly, start of the league we will have 50 players, and the final 16 will be in a sort of lan. All of this will be casted live.
With this much money on the line, i dont see how they are gonna stop people from cheating while playing. Isnt it 2 easy to watch the stream and play at the same time?
Justin.tv has stated that they are implementing a delay on the stream so someone watching the stream will be 5-10 minutes behind what is actually happening ingame.
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On February 22 2011 19:21 Technique wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 19:16 Nizaris wrote:On February 22 2011 19:12 The KY wrote:
I can't believe anyone thought this was underwhelming...what more did you want? An exact carbon copy of the GSL? Tip; if you wanna watch the GSL, just watch the GSL.
It's an online tournament until the last 16, where it's a LAN. Obviously because in Korea, it's alright to do a month long LAN because all the progamers live in the same place. Anyone who can't see a problem with doing that in America didn't think for more than 3 seconds.
As for the casters, everyone is entitled to their opinion. But the fact is that anyone who disagrees that Inc and Gretorp are awesome is wrong. That's right, you are entitled to your wrong opinion. I want a non Jtv stream so us Europeans with 30 mbit connections can actually enjoy the livestream without lag. I got no problems with jtv.
i'm glad you don't. Plenty of ppl do. I was getting less then 1 frame per second with 20k viewers for yday's showmatch.
Oh well illegal restreams ftw i guess.....
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On February 22 2011 11:06 ReachTheSky wrote:
This is a north american starleague.......can't we just keep this to north americans? ><
yeah man! very entertaining league you got there!!
Idra, tyler, hmm who else? come on don't you want to see the best players in the world? maybe you also hate GSL for letting foreigners in their league... it's in Korea so it should only be played by koreans.. that's so stupid..
polularity contest was to let every famous player in so that they wouldn't be acused of helping out..
same with the 5 players per clan rule imo
It shouldn't be 6 TL, 7 EG, 7 root, 8 mouz, 8 fnatic what would be the fun in that?
i can't understand why a major league like this, that we can see really tried to branch out to everyone is being so attacked and questioned.. This is good news for us..
All we got to do is watch the games if we want to.. it's not like they are asking us for money! You care or you don't care but no one should bash the effort and dedication for the game that these guys have..
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On February 22 2011 19:12 The KY wrote:
I can't believe anyone thought this was underwhelming...what more did you want? An exact carbon copy of the GSL? Tip; if you wanna watch the GSL, just watch the GSL.
It's an online tournament until the last 16, where it's a LAN. Obviously because in Korea, it's alright to do a month long LAN because all the progamers live in the same place. Anyone who can't see a problem with doing that in America didn't think for more than 3 seconds.
As for the casters, everyone is entitled to their opinion. But the fact is that anyone who disagrees that Inc and Gretorp are awesome is wrong. That's right, you are entitled to your wrong opinion.
I could not agree more. I just hope the production improves (Which it will) and they cast everything live. It was too obvious that they were casting from replays for the Clash of the Titans and it made it alot less exciting. They were off alot of the time on the timing.
I'm super excited for this! The first couple seasons will probably be not the best, just like the GSL. But having a Star League in the US is a huge deal. Not to mention LA, the West Coast. You get mad support from me!
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On February 22 2011 19:12 The KY wrote:
I can't believe anyone thought this was underwhelming...what more did you want? An exact carbon copy of the GSL? Tip; if you wanna watch the GSL, just watch the GSL.
It's an online tournament until the last 16, where it's a LAN. Obviously because in Korea, it's alright to do a month long LAN because all the progamers live in the same place. Anyone who can't see a problem with doing that in America didn't think for more than 3 seconds.
As for the casters, everyone is entitled to their opinion. But the fact is that anyone who disagrees that Inc and Gretorp are awesome is wrong. That's right, you are entitled to your wrong opinion.
The only thing lifting this above any other community project that has been shown thus far is the prize pool. The big number at the end. That's it.
It should be alright for people to be skeptical until we see more. Until production is at least on par with the often criticized GLHF.tv for instance. Until it becomes clear that the structure is as well thought out as the TSL. Until there is more to look at than a single HTML page. Until it's evident that someone is actually checking pre recorded footage for errors before broadcasting.
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On February 22 2011 19:21 Technique wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 19:16 Nizaris wrote:On February 22 2011 19:12 The KY wrote:
I can't believe anyone thought this was underwhelming...what more did you want? An exact carbon copy of the GSL? Tip; if you wanna watch the GSL, just watch the GSL.
It's an online tournament until the last 16, where it's a LAN. Obviously because in Korea, it's alright to do a month long LAN because all the progamers live in the same place. Anyone who can't see a problem with doing that in America didn't think for more than 3 seconds.
As for the casters, everyone is entitled to their opinion. But the fact is that anyone who disagrees that Inc and Gretorp are awesome is wrong. That's right, you are entitled to your wrong opinion. I want a non Jtv stream so us Europeans with 30 mbit connections can actually enjoy the livestream without lag. I got no problems with jtv.
Me neither as long as i dont put it above 240p....
How ever, at first it was terrible to watch gom aswel, they did some major improvements, if justin.tv sees potential in Europe, i dont see why they coudnt improve. Stuff like this takes major investments and if you dont have a solid ROI ist really hard to spend that much.
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I love the NASL for not forgetting European players! I didn't take it for granted at all. This is such a huge step for esports, Now if someone puts something of similar epicness up in Europe, (where ofc also players from NA are allowed) all my dreams would come true, we would basically have OSL and MSL in the West :D We could permanently watch people competing in 2 different huge leagues, maybe with a slightly different format. Omg this would be so awesome and is already.
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hopeing Justin TV sorts out any issues with streaming to europe otherwise this will be a fail on that part. Otherwise I really cannot wait, I havent ordered any GSl yet even for vods as the time it is in isnt very good for anyone living in birtain and working 9-5!!! Be interesting to see what time these are played in comparison to uk times.
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Is that guy fucking kidding me? How can he possibly hope to win like this :/
Yeah that's not the GSL life report thread^^
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This is gonna be interesting. NASL has already talked to MLG, but IEM wasn't mentioned at all.
I feel like one of the reasons esports didn't completely kick in yet is that we don't have semi-pros. In all the tournaments so far we see the big guys battling it out, even for prize pools like 50$ or sth. Now, as more tournaments grow, I think we might see an amateur base build up. This is really good news.
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On February 22 2011 19:39 Tommylew wrote:
hopeing Justin TV sorts out any issues with streaming to europe otherwise this will be a fail on that part. Otherwise I really cannot wait, I havent ordered any GSl yet even for vods as the time it is in isnt very good for anyone living in birtain and working 9-5!!! Be interesting to see what time these are played in comparison to uk times.
thats the beauty of the GSL. I almost never can watch it live but after work the VODs are always uploaded. If you take care you're not getting spoiled until then (which means no TL/social media etc during work) it's perfect to watch as it was live.
They also said there's gonna be a recast for Europe which is quite nice. Normal US tournaments have been from 22 until 4 am in the morning which is quite ok though to watch
edit: Mandalor: why should they talk about IEM? There won't be any IEM matches between april and july. The grandfinals are next week and the next season i guess will start in Ocotober or something like that
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On February 22 2011 19:43 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote:
Is that guy fucking kidding me? How can he possibly hope to win like this :/
^^ I think you are posting in the wrong thread
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On February 22 2011 11:03 orotoss wrote:
I don't see why it's not just an open tournament with qualifiers. If the pros we love are really that good, then they will make it to the top. If there are some unknowns out there who could crush idra and huk, well I wanna watch those guys. The popularity system goes against everything that Starcraft is about. This is a COMPETITIVE e-sport, not a popularity contest.
I understand that they want the games to be entertaining, but people are impressed by the skills of the players, not their names. People wanna watch Jinro because he is awesome at Starcraft 2, and we would be even more entertained by someone who is better.
This, exactly.
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On February 22 2011 19:18 CursedRich wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 19:12 The KY wrote:
I can't believe anyone thought this was underwhelming...what more did you want? An exact carbon copy of the GSL? Tip; if you wanna watch the GSL, just watch the GSL.
It's an online tournament until the last 16, where it's a LAN. Obviously because in Korea, it's alright to do a month long LAN because all the progamers live in the same place. Anyone who can't see a problem with doing that in America didn't think for more than 3 seconds.
As for the casters, everyone is entitled to their opinion. But the fact is that anyone who disagrees that Inc and Gretorp are awesome is wrong. That's right, you are entitled to your wrong opinion. So are you and Ive worked in TV production for 8 years
Ok.
...?
On February 22 2011 19:16 Nizaris wrote:
I want a non Jtv stream so us Europeans with 30 mbit connections can actually enjoy the livestream without lag.
That's fair enough, but in their mission statement NASL acknowledge that there is a lot of pressure on jtv to step it up. And jtv themselves have said they are committed to improving their streams to cater for esports. So I think it's not fair to judge them just yet.
In fact on all complaints of quality, the show match was a test run. Yeah it didn't go so wonderful. But neither did the first GSL. Plus, horrible lag for Europe wasn't fixed until season 3 of GSL.
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On February 22 2011 19:50 Leviance wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 19:43 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote:
Is that guy fucking kidding me? How can he possibly hope to win like this :/ ^^ I think you are posting in the wrong thread
i do this shit all the time so annoying
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If the stream to EU works fine many people will buy the premium (including me) and JTV will profit too. I think they will manage to get it working then.
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On February 22 2011 19:29 eloist wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 19:12 The KY wrote:
I can't believe anyone thought this was underwhelming...what more did you want? An exact carbon copy of the GSL? Tip; if you wanna watch the GSL, just watch the GSL.
It's an online tournament until the last 16, where it's a LAN. Obviously because in Korea, it's alright to do a month long LAN because all the progamers live in the same place. Anyone who can't see a problem with doing that in America didn't think for more than 3 seconds.
As for the casters, everyone is entitled to their opinion. But the fact is that anyone who disagrees that Inc and Gretorp are awesome is wrong. That's right, you are entitled to your wrong opinion. The only thing lifting this above any other community project that has been shown thus far is the prize pool. The big number at the end. That's it. It should be alright for people to be skeptical until we see more. Until production is at least on par with the often criticized GLHF.tv for instance. Until it becomes clear that the structure is as well thought out as the TSL. Until there is more to look at than a single HTML page. Until it's evident that someone is actually checking pre recorded footage for errors before broadcasting.
exactly this!
only the pure prize money number stands out, in whole it jet by far does not look like the biggest and most professional organization in western esport history, its just the biggest prize pool.
it seems that they were simply not ready for the announcement yet and they go live with it without a big sponsor behind the event. it seems that they have there budget guaranteed by blizzard for 3 seasons, but still its a bit gambling in the hope that financially it will pay off in the end. in dont see how this can work in the longrun without a sponsor and to get one that invests soo much into a completely new esports brand the first seasons have to be mindblowing and thats not only be done by the pure prize money number.
the production value has to increase massivly, cause it did not fit to the "biggest organization in western esport history" role. they simply have to be better! then for example a eg masters cup broadcasts, which was really great, cause thats what everybody will expect.
i really really hope they get it done, or the chance to get esports that big anytime will be gone forever after 3 seasons.
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What about the premium pricing ? 20 - 25 $ seems a bit too much compared to the 10 $ of GSL. And GSL has the better players ... and the better casters ... and a stadium for the finals
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On February 22 2011 19:51 The KY wrote:
In fact on all complaints of quality, the show match was a test run. Yeah it didn't go so wonderful. But neither did the first GSL. Plus, horrible lag for Europe wasn't fixed until season 3 of GSL.
The difference being that this tournament is specifically targeting NA and Europe as its audience, while the GSL is first and foremost Korean.
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On February 22 2011 19:45 Markus138 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 19:39 Tommylew wrote:
hopeing Justin TV sorts out any issues with streaming to europe otherwise this will be a fail on that part. Otherwise I really cannot wait, I havent ordered any GSl yet even for vods as the time it is in isnt very good for anyone living in birtain and working 9-5!!! Be interesting to see what time these are played in comparison to uk times. edit: Mandalor: why should they talk about IEM? There won't be any IEM matches between april and july. The grandfinals are next week and the next season i guess will start in Ocotober or something like that
Ah okay, didn't know that. Thanks for the clarification.
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On February 22 2011 19:56 Enzyme wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 19:51 The KY wrote:
In fact on all complaints of quality, the show match was a test run. Yeah it didn't go so wonderful. But neither did the first GSL. Plus, horrible lag for Europe wasn't fixed until season 3 of GSL. The difference being that this tournament is specifically targeting NA and Europe as its audience, while the GSL is first and foremost Korean.
That's highly debatable. GSL, the Global Star League, has worked pretty hard on getting it's tournament worldwide. Take a look at the new ad that comes on in between games, the one with the map of the world behind the GOM logo?
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On February 22 2011 18:46 jalstar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 18:16 Shelke14 wrote:On February 22 2011 18:14 aderum wrote:
And about the price... It is 25$for 10 weeks right? and the gsl is 10 $ for 4 weeks so i think its a pretty good price Agreed, for the amount of content their promising, how can anybody really bitch at the cost. Their basically pumping out just as much if not more games than GSL and I think if you worked it out, it's actually cheaper. Imagine if GSL decided to make Code A Ro32 a group stage, with 4 groups of 8, and everyone played a Bo5. In total, there's say 5 times the amount of total games played per season as before (don't care what the actual number is). If GOM decided to make the ticket $40, would you say that's a bargain? Of course not, you get the same amount of games with the top players but more games with the low-level ones. 2 players are advancing from each group of 10. There's not much you can do to convince me to care about the game between the 6th and 8th ranked player.
Except if the 6th vs 8th match is Liquid`Huk vs EGIdrA.
Think about it from a REAL sports perspective. You don't watch any of the games that don't have playoff implications past Week 9 of the NFL? Past game 60 of the NHL?
Give me a break. This is going to be the highest level play with the best 50 players. Every game will be awesome and exciting to watch regardless of the player's position in their divison. The fact that the divison exists at all is beyond exciting. The majority of this community loves watching high level pros fight over $50 dollars, nevermind having each and every game worth some sort of point system.
Stop being a dbag and appreciate how awesome this announcement is.
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On February 22 2011 19:56 hadang wrote:
What about the premium pricing ? 20 - 25 $ seems a bit too much compared to the 10 $ of GSL. And GSL has the better players ... and the better casters ... and a stadium for the finals
10$ is for 3 weeks of games at strange times. 25$ will be for 9+ weeks of games at premium times.
Yes, players are better in GSL but that does not necessarily means more entertaining games (as some GSL seasons have shown us). Yes casters are better (well they are not with Kelly on board :D), but not that much. These guys can and I expect them to step up their game.
Well the best thing is to wait and watch the first week and then decide if you want to give them your money.
Let me add, if they are planning to restream for EU then I hope they put it at evening time when working people can watch it as well as students. I really hate GSL live stream as I cannot watch it during the morning.
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Fantastic news for American Esports. Wish you guys luck running the show!
I will be tuning in from Australia to watch all the SC2 goodness
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On February 22 2011 19:56 Enzyme wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 19:51 The KY wrote:
In fact on all complaints of quality, the show match was a test run. Yeah it didn't go so wonderful. But neither did the first GSL. Plus, horrible lag for Europe wasn't fixed until season 3 of GSL. The difference being that this tournament is specifically targeting NA and Europe as its audience, while the GSL is first and foremost Korean.
Doesnt matter what audience the tourney is primarily targeted at, it's the stream that is in question. GSL are asking for money for a stream, targeted primarily for a western audience, hence it has to meet the same standards that any other stream would(like the one the NASL is gonna provide). So saying that it took some time for GSL to rectify their problems is not that far off. Then again you could argue that there shouldnt be any problems to begin with, but in a world that isnt perfect...
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You only get one chance to make a first impression and everything about that impression (the showmatch) was completely amateurish.
It would have been far better to announce a $390k tournament on a professional looking website, using a professional quality stream, rather than do the whole thing on the cheap and make people instantly question whether you guys have what it takes to pull something like this off.
At the very least, with weeks to prepare for this thing, you should have hired a competent artist to design some quality graphics for overlays and whatnot, rather than making them yourselves in mspaint and thinking "oh well, it'll do."
I'd like to have seen SOMETHING to prove your competency before handing over money to a bunch of guys with no track record of running major tournaments and the showmatch completely failed to provide that.
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Good luck to the NASL, like any tournament I watch I'm just hoping to see good games regardless of the hype the tournament gets or it's prize pool.
Maybe some of this criticism is a case of reaping what Incontrol sows, always quick to criticise casters, tournaments and production values of others in the SC community.
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3 hours of content every day sounds a bit overkill, gonna be hard to watch everything, though that isnt neccessarily needed. Only thing I can think of thats less than optimal about this tourney. I take it the production value will go up a bit, removing the delay that occured in the showmatch.
Sounds really exiting, love that InControl and Gretorp are the main casters. Does anyone know for sure whether or not InControl himself is gonna play?
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I wonder what will the game times be. Hopefully not in the middle of the night for europeans, like most of the us content there is.
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On February 22 2011 20:35 Grettin wrote:
I wonder what will the game times be. Hopefully not in the middle of the night for europeans, like most of the us content there is.
It is gonna be early for Europeans, but in the FAQ of the website they said they would restream it in the evening European time.
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Good luck Guys!
one note about your rules, seems a little silly
..every player is supposed to be backed by a $250 refundable fee. Essentially what it is, is every time they're rude or they're late or any kind of unforeseeable problems occur they'll be penalized $25 or $50 and that comes out of the refundable fee of course. But most people, hopefully all, will be completely and immaculately fine and will get that $250 back. But the idea is to make them accountable.
I say silly because A) seems a player can come out -$250 for taking part to the event, where does the money go? and who is judge jury on this issue? also if a player is in top4 and set to get $25,000 then breaking the rules and losing $25 is hardly going to deter him at that stage.
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When will this be on ESPN?
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On February 22 2011 15:46 iCCup.Raelcun wrote:
I really don't get the tournament format with 50 players getting whittled down to 15 I dont really understand how that will work. Wondering if maybe start with a bigger invite pool or still 50 and then open up more open tournament spots so maybe people who were restricted by not being on a team or too many teammates can qualify in and have a rounder number than 50. IDK it's hard to say for sure without knowing the format though cuz they could do something different like a league but that's REALLY hard to organize players to play eachother at specific times and cause a lot of hassle to support staff.
Just seems weird to have 50 invites and only one person gets in via the open slot idk seems better to open that up a bit more seeing as with the prize pool that open tour would be stacked and a lot of people will have to be turned away or it will just be way too big.
I both agree and disagree.
I think 50 players invited for the round-robin portion is just about perfect: 10 players per league means 9 head-to-head matches which is an idea I do like, and only having 5 divisions seems very appropriate given what we know so far of the format (for example, but not limited to, the fact that they're broadcasting 5 nights a week, meaning they can broadcast one entire division each night if they so choose, which would simplify keeping track of the standings in the different divisions).
But I do definitely agree with your point on how the open tournament should play a bigger role in filling out the final tournament slots. Plenty of ways that could be accomplished even maintaining the # of weeks and size of the final field, but this is their project so they have every right to disagree that that would be the best way to go
I like that they are limiting the amount of players from each team, at least in the opening season, though. That ensures that they aren't over-representing one group over another based on their own opinions of how good these guys are. It also means that some very good players will likely be in the Open tournament aside from the non-qualifying players of the round robin portion of the tournament.
At any rate, this is great news and it will surely be entertaining to watch!
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If the voting doesn't matter, why does nasl.tv say that it increases the player's chances to be invited?
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On February 22 2011 20:37 aka_star wrote:Good luck Guys! one note about your rules, seems a little silly Show nested quote +
..every player is supposed to be backed by a $250 refundable fee. Essentially what it is, is every time they're rude or they're late or any kind of unforeseeable problems occur they'll be penalized $25 or $50 and that comes out of the refundable fee of course. But most people, hopefully all, will be completely and immaculately fine and will get that $250 back. But the idea is to make them accountable.
I say silly because A) seems a player can come out -$250 for taking part to the event, where does the money go? and who is judge jury on this issue? also if a player is in top4 and set to get $25,000 then breaking the rules and losing $25 is hardly going to deter him at that stage.
any league has some kind of ruleset and admins, so they will decide.
this league is based on a regular tv show calendar, so thats probably something they learned from the gosucoaching PL where they had some delays in clanwars, cause players played in other tournaments parallel. you cant afford those delays and downtimes in the casts in this concept, so to make all players be damn serious about there NASL commitment they go an charge the players the only thing some of them care about (money) for being unprofessional in certain cases.
any players who signs in will know that beforehand, so there is nothing more easy to just avoid getting penalized or just not to sign in at all. i think its a good way to handle such things.
your top4 example is somewhat stupid, cause they of course wont have rules like "you are allowed to maphack, but this costs 25 dollars". it looks like this are just penalties to ensure a smooth working match shedule. i guess as a player you cant do something to get a significant advantage by just sacking 25 dollars out of your refundable fee.
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get a sponsor for each division ^^ like Intel Division, Razer Division etc and then sponsor for finals xD gogo money xD
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On February 22 2011 20:41 zoislk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 15:46 iCCup.Raelcun wrote:
I really don't get the tournament format with 50 players getting whittled down to 15 I dont really understand how that will work. Wondering if maybe start with a bigger invite pool or still 50 and then open up more open tournament spots so maybe people who were restricted by not being on a team or too many teammates can qualify in and have a rounder number than 50. IDK it's hard to say for sure without knowing the format though cuz they could do something different like a league but that's REALLY hard to organize players to play eachother at specific times and cause a lot of hassle to support staff.
Just seems weird to have 50 invites and only one person gets in via the open slot idk seems better to open that up a bit more seeing as with the prize pool that open tour would be stacked and a lot of people will have to be turned away or it will just be way too big. I both agree and disagree. I think 50 players invited for the round-robin portion is just about perfect: 10 players per league means 9 head-to-head matches which is an idea I do like, and only having 5 divisions seems very appropriate given what we know so far of the format (for example, but not limited to, the fact that they're broadcasting 5 nights a week, meaning they can broadcast one entire division each night if they so choose, which would simplify keeping track of the standings in the different divisions). But I do definitely agree with your point on how the open tournament should play a bigger role in filling out the final tournament slots. Plenty of ways that could be accomplished even maintaining the # of weeks and size of the final field, but this is their project so they have every right to disagree that that would be the best way to go I like that they are limiting the amount of players from each team, at least in the opening season, though. That ensures that they aren't over-representing one group over another based on their own opinions of how good these guys are. It also means that some very good players will likely be in the Open tournament aside from the non-qualifying players of the round robin portion of the tournament. At any rate, this is great news and it will surely be entertaining to watch!
50 players = 5 Groups with 10 players, top 3 advance I guess
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1 minor problem I have with the group stage into RO16 bracket. Ideally you would want the top players from each group to meet in later stages of the tournament. 5 groups into RO16 bracket will have (with ideal seedings) at least 1 RO8 "top group player" clash. With 4 or 8 groups you can eliminate this problem. With 4 groups they can meet at semi-finals or with 8 groups they meet at RO8.
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Make it:
6 Groups with 8 player
Top 2 from each 8 player group advance
6 determined from open tournaments
= 16 player LAN
for the next league
The 6 worst player from the groups fall out
The 6 winners of the open get in
EDIT: Hmm just realised the numbers don't add up But you get the idea!
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I hope you wont get shit from the refund thing.
Anyhow this is the greatest thing yet that happened for humankind.
edit : I'd hate you for making OSL look cheap !
edit 2 : Oh please make a space suits special.
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First of all: Great news for SC2 e-sports and good luck with NASL.tv!
My feedback:
1. One of the things that wanted me to buy the premium pack was when I heard you will release replays. However I understand your argument that if one person on internet get hands on the replays everyone will So I can't actually argue and say "please reconsider" since I don't have a solution for the replay being all over the internet problem.
2. The "korean cap" is not a good thing. By doing that you admit that NASL is second to GSL. You should have the qualifiers be open for everyone. After all, NASL shouldn't be about europeans/americans/mexicans/australians or whatever. It should attract the best SC2 players else people will always consider this just to be a second class tourney opposed to GSL which will always been the crown jewel.
3. Instead of having a korean cap, you should have invites where you can use your voting system amongst others to invite players. Players like Idra/Jinro/Huk/TLO will qualify anyway. They don't need to be voted in. The voting should be amongst the people that can't qualify.
4. You need to have a caster of the caliber as Day9. Artosis and Tasteless I believe attract many viewers. Gretorp is not on par with those and by watching the showmatch yesterday I was quite dissapointed of the casting, not the synchproblems I want to add. Gretorp doesn't connect with the viewers nearly as good as other casters. Anyways, this is just a personal opinion.
Point 2 and 3 are the ones that concerns me the most.
Good luck with NASL!
EDIT 1: I know that the korean cap wasn't set in stone but by just having a cap I think brings down the name of NASL to a second class tourney.
EDIT 2: If the "korean cap" will be 5 or whatever god I hope korea will bring an all-star team that will roflstomp everyone Take the prize money and go back to GSL
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Everyone should really read all the info available before posting. They have said its 5 divisions of which top 2 advance. Then 5 players from playoffs (not specified yet) and 1 player from open tournament.
I would guess the playoffs include all or some of the players of the initial 50 invited excluding the top 2 of each division. Surely more detailed rules will come soon
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I'll support the NASL because it's a growth in eSports in the west, especially if it does well enough to cause more leagues to pop-up or get more exposure so the baby-steps can be taken to match Korea vs the West.
The only thing I don't like is the vote-in system, I can understand why they are doing it and it's a cool idea and I support it! But I think it should be 12 slots with 4 open tournaments to hit the 16, only 1 open tournament doesn't seem fair/nice/cool :/
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On February 22 2011 20:38 TheBanana wrote:
When will this be on ESPN?
As someone who writes for ESPN and has spoken to some other ESPN employees in the know, I wouldn't bet on it -- not for a long time. Right now, they barely cover gaming at all and even still most of that is Madden.
E-sports need to prove that they can draw in a lot of viewers and help the sponsors turn a profit before ESPN will consider getting involved.
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On February 22 2011 20:48 coddan wrote:
If the voting doesn't matter, why does nasl.tv say that it increases the player's chances to be invited?
*sigh* Really? Are you a troll like so many others?
The voting is a PART of the process, it doesn't guarantee a person gets in or doesn't get into the tournament. The organizers will look at the list and take the list standings into consideration but it's not like the list is the only consideration when it comes to inviting players. So in that regard it does increase a player's chance of getting invited, but only to a point. The list is mostly a way for the community/viewers to feel like they are participating and is a fun thing. I personally have enjoyed casting my votes and leaving comments. Do I realize that who I vote for may not get in? Yeah, but at least my voice has been heard.
Lot of you guys need to stop making issues out of nothing and arguing for the sake of arguing. Some of you have good posts with good points but some, like the above, are nothing but a waste of space.
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Awesome work, guys. Can't wait for the tournament to start, and I'm sure production kinks will get worked out. Good luck and thanks for putting this together.
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Don't know if this has been mentioned but it sounds like the reason teammates dont play against each other is so incontrol doesn't have to play against machine early in a tourney again
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On February 22 2011 20:29 cuppatea wrote:
You only get one chance to make a first impression and everything about that impression (the showmatch) was completely amateurish.
It would have been far better to announce a $390k tournament on a professional looking website, using a professional quality stream, rather than do the whole thing on the cheap and make people instantly question whether you guys have what it takes to pull something like this off.
At the very least, with weeks to prepare for this thing, you should have hired a competent artist to design some quality graphics for overlays and whatnot, rather than making them yourselves in mspaint and thinking "oh well, it'll do."
I'd like to have seen SOMETHING to prove your competency before handing over money to a bunch of guys with no track record of running major tournaments and the showmatch completely failed to provide that.
You put it better than I could
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I was kind of hoping for a Team League. Something like the Korean BW league.. well.. maybe later? :/
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Awesome! Can't wait for for more details and for this to start!
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Great news. I'm really looking forward to the start of this epic tournament =)
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Geoff, if there was an award for biggest contribution to western esports, you, Andre, Bryce, and Russ just won it...
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On February 22 2011 20:29 cuppatea wrote:
You only get one chance to make a first impression and everything about that impression (the showmatch) was completely amateurish.
It would have been far better to announce a $390k tournament on a professional looking website, using a professional quality stream, rather than do the whole thing on the cheap and make people instantly question whether you guys have what it takes to pull something like this off.
At the very least, with weeks to prepare for this thing, you should have hired a competent artist to design some quality graphics for overlays and whatnot, rather than making them yourselves in mspaint and thinking "oh well, it'll do."
I'd like to have seen SOMETHING to prove your competency before handing over money to a bunch of guys with no track record of running major tournaments and the showmatch completely failed to provide that.
I thought it was awesome, everything from the art to the casting.
The ONLY problem was the sync, but that doesnt really matter because it's easy to fix and was obviously not their fault, i mean it was the first time afterall.
I mean think about it, 20,000 people from all around the world are watching matches between 2 people in korea, casted by 2 people in california, along with live interviews from korea streamed online for free. And then you call it "cheap"? You arent paying -anything-, but yet you expect some kind of insane production for a showmatch? You're the one who's cheap
I though the art was awesome, the casting was great, the quality was perfect aswell, with zero lag for me atleast.
Maybe i'm just not as spoiled as other people, but i thought it was great. I dont watch the tournament for the art or overlays anyways.
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only 5 players for a team?
Liquid:
Huk
Tyler (Nony)
TheLittleOne
HayprO
Jinro
Ret
Will be a hard choice
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On February 22 2011 21:59 Deadlyfish wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 20:29 cuppatea wrote:
You only get one chance to make a first impression and everything about that impression (the showmatch) was completely amateurish.
It would have been far better to announce a $390k tournament on a professional looking website, using a professional quality stream, rather than do the whole thing on the cheap and make people instantly question whether you guys have what it takes to pull something like this off.
At the very least, with weeks to prepare for this thing, you should have hired a competent artist to design some quality graphics for overlays and whatnot, rather than making them yourselves in mspaint and thinking "oh well, it'll do."
I'd like to have seen SOMETHING to prove your competency before handing over money to a bunch of guys with no track record of running major tournaments and the showmatch completely failed to provide that. I thought it was awesome, everything from the art to the casting. The ONLY problem was the sync, but that doesnt really matter because it's easy to fix and was obviously not their fault, i mean it was the first time afterall. I mean think about it, 20,000 people from all around the world are watching matches between 2 people in korea, casted by 2 people in california, along with live interviews from korea streamed online for free. And then you call it "cheap"? You arent paying -anything-, but yet you expect some kind of insane production for a showmatch? You're the one who's cheap I though the art was awesome, the casting was great, the quality was perfect aswell, with zero lag for me atleast. Maybe i'm just not as spoiled as other people, but i thought it was great. I dont watch the tournament for the art or overlays anyways.
It may be your own opinion but I honestly can't believe someone considered the show yesterday awesome in every term.
And live interviews? LIVE? The onle thing live were all the issues they had -.-
Apparently I'm not even sure if you're serious. As you even say the quality was perfect with zero lag.
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You have to remember there were alot of viewers, but yeah, there was a little lag, nothing that hurt us tho
On a sidenote, not sure if this has been asked yet - how can people who dont make the top 50, get into the leagues? Does anyone know if there is going to be a cut off from the bottom of the leagues etc? and then others chosen on a qualifier etc?
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On February 22 2011 22:02 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 21:59 Deadlyfish wrote:On February 22 2011 20:29 cuppatea wrote:
You only get one chance to make a first impression and everything about that impression (the showmatch) was completely amateurish.
It would have been far better to announce a $390k tournament on a professional looking website, using a professional quality stream, rather than do the whole thing on the cheap and make people instantly question whether you guys have what it takes to pull something like this off.
At the very least, with weeks to prepare for this thing, you should have hired a competent artist to design some quality graphics for overlays and whatnot, rather than making them yourselves in mspaint and thinking "oh well, it'll do."
I'd like to have seen SOMETHING to prove your competency before handing over money to a bunch of guys with no track record of running major tournaments and the showmatch completely failed to provide that. I thought it was awesome, everything from the art to the casting. The ONLY problem was the sync, but that doesnt really matter because it's easy to fix and was obviously not their fault, i mean it was the first time afterall. I mean think about it, 20,000 people from all around the world are watching matches between 2 people in korea, casted by 2 people in california, along with live interviews from korea streamed online for free. And then you call it "cheap"? You arent paying -anything-, but yet you expect some kind of insane production for a showmatch? You're the one who's cheap I though the art was awesome, the casting was great, the quality was perfect aswell, with zero lag for me atleast. Maybe i'm just not as spoiled as other people, but i thought it was great. I dont watch the tournament for the art or overlays anyways. It may be your own opinion but I honestly can't believe someone considered the show yesterday awesome in every term. And live interviews? LIVE? The onle thing live were all the issues they had -.- Apparently I'm not even sure if you're serious. As you even say the quality was perfect with zero lag.
I was watching in 720p with zero lag, there was no problem.
The sync was off, ok, i'm sure they'll fix that pretty easily.
I feel like people are focusing on the wrong things. It's not about 720p or 1080p, or whether the art was good enough, it's about the games and casting, both of which were great.
It's like buying sc1 and then saying "the graphics suck, this is awful!"
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On February 22 2011 19:56 hadang wrote:
What about the premium pricing ? 20 - 25 $ seems a bit too much compared to the 10 $ of GSL. And GSL has the better players ... and the better casters ... and a stadium for the finals
GSL lasts about 4 weeks and has about 4-6 or 4-10 games a day depending on code A/code S. The NASL will have 9 weeks of group play followed by a 16 man LAN in SoCal and has committed to about 3 hours of content every weekday for those 9 weeks. Since it's a LAN, obviously there's going to be a stadium. Tastetosis were really rusty their first two GSLs or so, give them time to improve. Maybe it's still not worth it to you, but comparing the $20-25 to $10 dollar for dollar is disingenuous.
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On February 22 2011 22:02 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 21:59 Deadlyfish wrote:On February 22 2011 20:29 cuppatea wrote:
You only get one chance to make a first impression and everything about that impression (the showmatch) was completely amateurish.
It would have been far better to announce a $390k tournament on a professional looking website, using a professional quality stream, rather than do the whole thing on the cheap and make people instantly question whether you guys have what it takes to pull something like this off.
At the very least, with weeks to prepare for this thing, you should have hired a competent artist to design some quality graphics for overlays and whatnot, rather than making them yourselves in mspaint and thinking "oh well, it'll do."
I'd like to have seen SOMETHING to prove your competency before handing over money to a bunch of guys with no track record of running major tournaments and the showmatch completely failed to provide that. I thought it was awesome, everything from the art to the casting. The ONLY problem was the sync, but that doesnt really matter because it's easy to fix and was obviously not their fault, i mean it was the first time afterall. I mean think about it, 20,000 people from all around the world are watching matches between 2 people in korea, casted by 2 people in california, along with live interviews from korea streamed online for free. And then you call it "cheap"? You arent paying -anything-, but yet you expect some kind of insane production for a showmatch? You're the one who's cheap I though the art was awesome, the casting was great, the quality was perfect aswell, with zero lag for me atleast. Maybe i'm just not as spoiled as other people, but i thought it was great. I dont watch the tournament for the art or overlays anyways. It may be your own opinion but I honestly can't believe someone considered the show yesterday awesome in every term. And live interviews? LIVE? The onle thing live were all the issues they had -.- Apparently I'm not even sure if you're serious. As you even say the quality was perfect with zero lag.
![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/akffaaxhb.jpg)
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On February 22 2011 22:06 Deadlyfish wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 22:02 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote:On February 22 2011 21:59 Deadlyfish wrote:On February 22 2011 20:29 cuppatea wrote:
You only get one chance to make a first impression and everything about that impression (the showmatch) was completely amateurish.
It would have been far better to announce a $390k tournament on a professional looking website, using a professional quality stream, rather than do the whole thing on the cheap and make people instantly question whether you guys have what it takes to pull something like this off.
At the very least, with weeks to prepare for this thing, you should have hired a competent artist to design some quality graphics for overlays and whatnot, rather than making them yourselves in mspaint and thinking "oh well, it'll do."
I'd like to have seen SOMETHING to prove your competency before handing over money to a bunch of guys with no track record of running major tournaments and the showmatch completely failed to provide that. I thought it was awesome, everything from the art to the casting. The ONLY problem was the sync, but that doesnt really matter because it's easy to fix and was obviously not their fault, i mean it was the first time afterall. I mean think about it, 20,000 people from all around the world are watching matches between 2 people in korea, casted by 2 people in california, along with live interviews from korea streamed online for free. And then you call it "cheap"? You arent paying -anything-, but yet you expect some kind of insane production for a showmatch? You're the one who's cheap I though the art was awesome, the casting was great, the quality was perfect aswell, with zero lag for me atleast. Maybe i'm just not as spoiled as other people, but i thought it was great. I dont watch the tournament for the art or overlays anyways. It may be your own opinion but I honestly can't believe someone considered the show yesterday awesome in every term. And live interviews? LIVE? The onle thing live were all the issues they had -.- Apparently I'm not even sure if you're serious. As you even say the quality was perfect with zero lag. I was watching in 720p with zero lag, there was no problem. The sync was off, ok, i'm sure they'll fix that pretty easily. I feel like people are focusing on the wrong things. It's not about 720p or 1080p, or whether the art was good enough, it's about the games and casting, both of which were great. It's like buying sc1 and then saying "the graphics suck, this is awful!"
None cared about 720p or 1080p. Like if that even matters with way too low bit-rates.
Your last argument doesn't make sense either.
And well if you enjoyed the casting... to each his own.
I was incredible turned off by the fact that they pre-recorded themselves casting replays and even kinda tried to hide that fact. On top of that the de-sync completely killed the commentary which was okay but not great either.
I mean I'm gladly looking forward the NASL but that doesn't mean I don't consider this event yesterday a desaster (in terms of expectations).
The casting will be great, no doubt. They're good casters and will just improve. But the overall production quality better won't look anything like yesterday.
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On February 22 2011 22:02 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 21:59 Deadlyfish wrote:On February 22 2011 20:29 cuppatea wrote:
You only get one chance to make a first impression and everything about that impression (the showmatch) was completely amateurish.
It would have been far better to announce a $390k tournament on a professional looking website, using a professional quality stream, rather than do the whole thing on the cheap and make people instantly question whether you guys have what it takes to pull something like this off.
At the very least, with weeks to prepare for this thing, you should have hired a competent artist to design some quality graphics for overlays and whatnot, rather than making them yourselves in mspaint and thinking "oh well, it'll do."
I'd like to have seen SOMETHING to prove your competency before handing over money to a bunch of guys with no track record of running major tournaments and the showmatch completely failed to provide that. I thought it was awesome, everything from the art to the casting. The ONLY problem was the sync, but that doesnt really matter because it's easy to fix and was obviously not their fault, i mean it was the first time afterall. I mean think about it, 20,000 people from all around the world are watching matches between 2 people in korea, casted by 2 people in california, along with live interviews from korea streamed online for free. And then you call it "cheap"? You arent paying -anything-, but yet you expect some kind of insane production for a showmatch? You're the one who's cheap I though the art was awesome, the casting was great, the quality was perfect aswell, with zero lag for me atleast. Maybe i'm just not as spoiled as other people, but i thought it was great. I dont watch the tournament for the art or overlays anyways. It may be your own opinion but I honestly can't believe someone considered the show yesterday awesome in every term. And live interviews? LIVE? The onle thing live were all the issues they had -.- Apparently I'm not even sure if you're serious. As you even say the quality was perfect with zero lag.
quality was perfect. I watched it on 720p without any lags. The event yesterday was as good as it could have been. Unfortunately the organisers can't make sure that for 100% of the people the stream works just fine. But maybe a lot of people don't realise that you can change the resolution on jtv
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On February 22 2011 22:06 Deadlyfish wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 22:02 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote:On February 22 2011 21:59 Deadlyfish wrote:On February 22 2011 20:29 cuppatea wrote:
You only get one chance to make a first impression and everything about that impression (the showmatch) was completely amateurish.
It would have been far better to announce a $390k tournament on a professional looking website, using a professional quality stream, rather than do the whole thing on the cheap and make people instantly question whether you guys have what it takes to pull something like this off.
At the very least, with weeks to prepare for this thing, you should have hired a competent artist to design some quality graphics for overlays and whatnot, rather than making them yourselves in mspaint and thinking "oh well, it'll do."
I'd like to have seen SOMETHING to prove your competency before handing over money to a bunch of guys with no track record of running major tournaments and the showmatch completely failed to provide that. I thought it was awesome, everything from the art to the casting. The ONLY problem was the sync, but that doesnt really matter because it's easy to fix and was obviously not their fault, i mean it was the first time afterall. I mean think about it, 20,000 people from all around the world are watching matches between 2 people in korea, casted by 2 people in california, along with live interviews from korea streamed online for free. And then you call it "cheap"? You arent paying -anything-, but yet you expect some kind of insane production for a showmatch? You're the one who's cheap I though the art was awesome, the casting was great, the quality was perfect aswell, with zero lag for me atleast. Maybe i'm just not as spoiled as other people, but i thought it was great. I dont watch the tournament for the art or overlays anyways. It may be your own opinion but I honestly can't believe someone considered the show yesterday awesome in every term. And live interviews? LIVE? The onle thing live were all the issues they had -.- Apparently I'm not even sure if you're serious. As you even say the quality was perfect with zero lag. I was watching in 720p with zero lag, there was no problem. The sync was off, ok, i'm sure they'll fix that pretty easily. I feel like people are focusing on the wrong things. It's not about 720p or 1080p, or whether the art was good enough, it's about the games and casting, both of which were great. It's like buying sc1 and then saying "the graphics suck, this is awful!"
The point is not about 720p vs 1080p. Obviously, it does not matter that much.
The thing is that the showmatch was not that impressive in terms of production quality (not saying it sucked or anything though), and at some point, looking professional does matter more than the quality of the games when it comes down to finding sponsorship money (and they can influence that, they can't really do so for the games).
About your comparison with SC1: SC1 graphics do "suck" by today's standards, but would one say that the quality of the production surrounding them sucks? Hardly.
Now, as for the site, I kinda disagree with the original quoted post, I think it looks pretty OK.
On a sidenote: about lags, although this is mainly a North American event, Europeans do have a hard time watching JTV without lags or anything (not all of us, but a large part).
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On February 22 2011 22:14 Markus138 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 22:02 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote:On February 22 2011 21:59 Deadlyfish wrote:On February 22 2011 20:29 cuppatea wrote:
You only get one chance to make a first impression and everything about that impression (the showmatch) was completely amateurish.
It would have been far better to announce a $390k tournament on a professional looking website, using a professional quality stream, rather than do the whole thing on the cheap and make people instantly question whether you guys have what it takes to pull something like this off.
At the very least, with weeks to prepare for this thing, you should have hired a competent artist to design some quality graphics for overlays and whatnot, rather than making them yourselves in mspaint and thinking "oh well, it'll do."
I'd like to have seen SOMETHING to prove your competency before handing over money to a bunch of guys with no track record of running major tournaments and the showmatch completely failed to provide that. I thought it was awesome, everything from the art to the casting. The ONLY problem was the sync, but that doesnt really matter because it's easy to fix and was obviously not their fault, i mean it was the first time afterall. I mean think about it, 20,000 people from all around the world are watching matches between 2 people in korea, casted by 2 people in california, along with live interviews from korea streamed online for free. And then you call it "cheap"? You arent paying -anything-, but yet you expect some kind of insane production for a showmatch? You're the one who's cheap I though the art was awesome, the casting was great, the quality was perfect aswell, with zero lag for me atleast. Maybe i'm just not as spoiled as other people, but i thought it was great. I dont watch the tournament for the art or overlays anyways. It may be your own opinion but I honestly can't believe someone considered the show yesterday awesome in every term. And live interviews? LIVE? The onle thing live were all the issues they had -.- Apparently I'm not even sure if you're serious. As you even say the quality was perfect with zero lag. quality was perfect. I watched it on 720p without any lags. The event yesterday was as good as it could have been. Unfortunately the organisers can't make sure that for 100% of the people the stream works just fine. But maybe a lot of people don't realise that you can change the resolution on jtv
Or maybe their stream is shit. Just because a couple ppl had it workin fine doesn't mean anything. I was getting less then 1 frame per second. Pathetic to say the least.... Especially when my internet can handle 50x their crappy bitrate.
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On February 22 2011 22:16 Nizaris wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 22:14 Markus138 wrote:On February 22 2011 22:02 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote:On February 22 2011 21:59 Deadlyfish wrote:On February 22 2011 20:29 cuppatea wrote:
You only get one chance to make a first impression and everything about that impression (the showmatch) was completely amateurish.
It would have been far better to announce a $390k tournament on a professional looking website, using a professional quality stream, rather than do the whole thing on the cheap and make people instantly question whether you guys have what it takes to pull something like this off.
At the very least, with weeks to prepare for this thing, you should have hired a competent artist to design some quality graphics for overlays and whatnot, rather than making them yourselves in mspaint and thinking "oh well, it'll do."
I'd like to have seen SOMETHING to prove your competency before handing over money to a bunch of guys with no track record of running major tournaments and the showmatch completely failed to provide that. I thought it was awesome, everything from the art to the casting. The ONLY problem was the sync, but that doesnt really matter because it's easy to fix and was obviously not their fault, i mean it was the first time afterall. I mean think about it, 20,000 people from all around the world are watching matches between 2 people in korea, casted by 2 people in california, along with live interviews from korea streamed online for free. And then you call it "cheap"? You arent paying -anything-, but yet you expect some kind of insane production for a showmatch? You're the one who's cheap I though the art was awesome, the casting was great, the quality was perfect aswell, with zero lag for me atleast. Maybe i'm just not as spoiled as other people, but i thought it was great. I dont watch the tournament for the art or overlays anyways. It may be your own opinion but I honestly can't believe someone considered the show yesterday awesome in every term. And live interviews? LIVE? The onle thing live were all the issues they had -.- Apparently I'm not even sure if you're serious. As you even say the quality was perfect with zero lag. quality was perfect. I watched it on 720p without any lags. The event yesterday was as good as it could have been. Unfortunately the organisers can't make sure that for 100% of the people the stream works just fine. But maybe a lot of people don't realise that you can change the resolution on jtv Or maybe their stream is shit. Just because a couple ppl had it workin fine doesn't mean anything. I was getting less then 1 frame per second. Pathetic to say the least.... Especially when my internet can handle 50x their crappy bitrate.
I would venture to saay the majority of people were able to watch the stream with no problems. However we have no polling figures (like Day9 did when he switched, 97% lag free) so speculation is useless.
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On February 22 2011 22:16 Nizaris wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 22:14 Markus138 wrote:On February 22 2011 22:02 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote:On February 22 2011 21:59 Deadlyfish wrote:On February 22 2011 20:29 cuppatea wrote:
You only get one chance to make a first impression and everything about that impression (the showmatch) was completely amateurish.
It would have been far better to announce a $390k tournament on a professional looking website, using a professional quality stream, rather than do the whole thing on the cheap and make people instantly question whether you guys have what it takes to pull something like this off.
At the very least, with weeks to prepare for this thing, you should have hired a competent artist to design some quality graphics for overlays and whatnot, rather than making them yourselves in mspaint and thinking "oh well, it'll do."
I'd like to have seen SOMETHING to prove your competency before handing over money to a bunch of guys with no track record of running major tournaments and the showmatch completely failed to provide that. I thought it was awesome, everything from the art to the casting. The ONLY problem was the sync, but that doesnt really matter because it's easy to fix and was obviously not their fault, i mean it was the first time afterall. I mean think about it, 20,000 people from all around the world are watching matches between 2 people in korea, casted by 2 people in california, along with live interviews from korea streamed online for free. And then you call it "cheap"? You arent paying -anything-, but yet you expect some kind of insane production for a showmatch? You're the one who's cheap I though the art was awesome, the casting was great, the quality was perfect aswell, with zero lag for me atleast. Maybe i'm just not as spoiled as other people, but i thought it was great. I dont watch the tournament for the art or overlays anyways. It may be your own opinion but I honestly can't believe someone considered the show yesterday awesome in every term. And live interviews? LIVE? The onle thing live were all the issues they had -.- Apparently I'm not even sure if you're serious. As you even say the quality was perfect with zero lag. quality was perfect. I watched it on 720p without any lags. The event yesterday was as good as it could have been. Unfortunately the organisers can't make sure that for 100% of the people the stream works just fine. But maybe a lot of people don't realise that you can change the resolution on jtv Or maybe their stream is shit. Just because a couple ppl had it workin fine doesn't mean anything. I was getting less then 1 frame per second. Pathetic to say the least.... Especially when my internet can handle 50x their crappy bitrate.
Seriously, you told us this story 10 times on this thread already. Can you please stop now?
First off all I am from europe, have 8mbit dl and was able to watch it normally on 720p with slight lags a bit later.
Next, it is not always about speed, your internet provider just might be the cause of your problems (together with Jtv).
Third, except for you I have not seen that many people complaining about connection problems in this topic.
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How do you know if it was prerecorded cast of replays?
The stream itself atleast gives no proof about that.
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I'm really looking forward to this. It looks like a few things still need to be ironed out, but boy am I ever excited. Good job to all those involved in this.
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On February 22 2011 12:13 dmillz wrote:Show nested quote + Seriously, charging more than twice the rate of GSL is absurd. I'm going to stick with the far cheaper tournament with better players and casters.
2.5 times the price for 3 times as much content...yes that sounds way more expensive. </endsarcasm> stop bashing it before you even give it a chance, watch some of the games THEN decide if its worth it,
That's part of my point, I can't even give it a chance without access to VODs, I don't have time to be sitting through all the delays and bullshit that goes on during a live stream, if they're even broadcasting it while I'm not at work or class.
If these morons had any semblance of long term business strategy they would not be charging such a ridiculous fee. If you're trying to grow the game as a spectator sport, you need to provide unrestricted access to VODs, otherwise the only people that will care are the few that already do.
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I dont think that $20 for 5 matches 5 times a week for 9 weeks, and then an open, plus finals, so, what, about 300 games? is at all a ridiculous fee. Infact, it works out alot cheaper than GSL, and look how many people they have watching that (alot).
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On February 22 2011 22:22 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 22:16 Nizaris wrote:On February 22 2011 22:14 Markus138 wrote:On February 22 2011 22:02 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote:On February 22 2011 21:59 Deadlyfish wrote:On February 22 2011 20:29 cuppatea wrote:
You only get one chance to make a first impression and everything about that impression (the showmatch) was completely amateurish.
It would have been far better to announce a $390k tournament on a professional looking website, using a professional quality stream, rather than do the whole thing on the cheap and make people instantly question whether you guys have what it takes to pull something like this off.
At the very least, with weeks to prepare for this thing, you should have hired a competent artist to design some quality graphics for overlays and whatnot, rather than making them yourselves in mspaint and thinking "oh well, it'll do."
I'd like to have seen SOMETHING to prove your competency before handing over money to a bunch of guys with no track record of running major tournaments and the showmatch completely failed to provide that. I thought it was awesome, everything from the art to the casting. The ONLY problem was the sync, but that doesnt really matter because it's easy to fix and was obviously not their fault, i mean it was the first time afterall. I mean think about it, 20,000 people from all around the world are watching matches between 2 people in korea, casted by 2 people in california, along with live interviews from korea streamed online for free. And then you call it "cheap"? You arent paying -anything-, but yet you expect some kind of insane production for a showmatch? You're the one who's cheap I though the art was awesome, the casting was great, the quality was perfect aswell, with zero lag for me atleast. Maybe i'm just not as spoiled as other people, but i thought it was great. I dont watch the tournament for the art or overlays anyways. It may be your own opinion but I honestly can't believe someone considered the show yesterday awesome in every term. And live interviews? LIVE? The onle thing live were all the issues they had -.- Apparently I'm not even sure if you're serious. As you even say the quality was perfect with zero lag. quality was perfect. I watched it on 720p without any lags. The event yesterday was as good as it could have been. Unfortunately the organisers can't make sure that for 100% of the people the stream works just fine. But maybe a lot of people don't realise that you can change the resolution on jtv Or maybe their stream is shit. Just because a couple ppl had it workin fine doesn't mean anything. I was getting less then 1 frame per second. Pathetic to say the least.... Especially when my internet can handle 50x their crappy bitrate. Seriously, you told us this story 10 times on this thread already. Can you please stop now? First off all I am from europe, have 8mbit dl and was able to watch it normally on 720p with slight lags a bit later. Next, it is not always about speed, your internet provider just might be the cause of your problems (together with Jtv). Third, except for you I have not seen that many people complaining about connection problems in this topic.
it wasn't even 10 times not even 5. Sick of these ppl saying i didn't have a problem therefore there is no problem. Considering the stream chat i was far from being alone. Same shit happened last time they streamed a tournament using Jtv .. Reddit Invitational.
My ISP is just fine, funny i only have problems with Jtv.
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On February 22 2011 20:29 cuppatea wrote:
You only get one chance to make a first impression and everything about that impression (the showmatch) was completely amateurish.
It would have been far better to announce a $390k tournament on a professional looking website, using a professional quality stream, rather than do the whole thing on the cheap and make people instantly question whether you guys have what it takes to pull something like this off.
At the very least, with weeks to prepare for this thing, you should have hired a competent artist to design some quality graphics for overlays and whatnot, rather than making them yourselves in mspaint and thinking "oh well, it'll do."
I'd like to have seen SOMETHING to prove your competency before handing over money to a bunch of guys with no track record of running major tournaments and the showmatch completely failed to provide that.
This is really on point. You're hyping a half million dollar league but your stream was out of sync, your overlays looked horrible, the trailer was short/simplistic/uninspiring, and the website is pretty lackluster. I'd rather wait 6 months and see something smooth and polished presented, but I can't help but remain excited.
Lets hope this is just the beginning of something huge for NA esports, and mass improvement will take place over first few seasons.
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OK, I wanted to touch upon two subjects:
1. 5 players per team limit: Lots of sports have a similar limit (like Formula 1; I am sure Ferrari or McLaren could afford to have 3-4 top drivers in their team but it means nothing when they can only have two competing) and it is considered normal in those sports. Teams with more then 5 good players should just have internal qualifiers to determine who to send. That is the most fair.
2. What I question now how will they determine who will be part of the 50 players for seasons 2 and 3. There should be some qualifier for this (they said place 3 and 4 (I suppose 1 and 2 will as well) from open tournament will get a place but didn't say how they will choose who will fall out - maybe they should remove 1 player that was at the bottom of each division and give 5 spots for new players). But now we come to the problem, what if the new player is from Liquid and Liquid already has 5 members?!
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Hopefuly this and GSL will cooperate and be shown in intervals to avoid overlapping each other.
It will give players a chance to compete in both if they have the ability, give us viewers the pleasure of having it spread out over the year. Rather than watching 5 hours of GSL and however many hours of NASL each night for a week out of the month then having a huge gap.
I am glad that this should include a lot more foreigners as only really having Jinro and Idra in last seasons GSL was disappointing. But I would still love to see the likes of MvP, NaDa, MC and Naama show up for it.
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On February 22 2011 22:35 Rodregeus wrote:
Hopefuly this and GSL will cooperate and be shown in intervals to avoid overlapping each other.
Why? Because the NASL will air at 4am eastern to overlap with the GSL?
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On February 22 2011 22:26 Tierfight wrote:
How do you know if it was prerecorded cast of replays?
The stream itself atleast gives no proof about that.
it was pretty obvious for everybody watching the stream. regarding the way they handled the little brakes between the maps i am 100% sure that it was prerecorded, like anybody else that watched it.
that they casted from replays is in fact 100% sure, cause after one of the players left after typing gg the ingame popup did not occur where you can select to go back to the score screen, this only happens in replays.
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On February 22 2011 22:40 bmg4ever wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 22:26 Tierfight wrote:
How do you know if it was prerecorded cast of replays?
The stream itself atleast gives no proof about that. it was pretty obvious for everybody watching the stream. regarding the way they handled the little brakes between the maps i am 100% sure that it was prerecorded, like anybody else that watched it. that they casted from replays is in fact 100% sure, cause after one of the players left after typing gg the ingame popup did not occur where you can select to go back to the score screen, this only happens in replays.
and thats ofc a good thing. Who would want to have lagging casters from America while 2 players in Korea play?
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i just hope for extended series and that the stream is watchable, the showmatch yesterday for example had a few hiccups :<
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On February 22 2011 22:40 bmg4ever wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 22:26 Tierfight wrote:
How do you know if it was prerecorded cast of replays?
The stream itself atleast gives no proof about that. it was pretty obvious for everybody watching the stream. regarding the way they handled the little brakes between the maps i am 100% sure that it was prerecorded, like anybody else that watched it. that they casted from replays is in fact 100% sure, cause after one of the players left after typing gg the ingame popup did not occur where you can select to go back to the score screen, this only happens in replays.
Those breaks are more like indication of live transmission, not pre recorded, learn something about live shows and then come to tell about how to recognize live show.
And about those game leavings, it is totally possible that they cut the video footage of game screen and return to casters instantly for other reasons.
There is absolutely no proof that the stream was pre-recorde and there is no proof that those games were replays.
I was watching the stream.
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On February 22 2011 22:43 Markus138 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 22:40 bmg4ever wrote:On February 22 2011 22:26 Tierfight wrote:
How do you know if it was prerecorded cast of replays?
The stream itself atleast gives no proof about that. it was pretty obvious for everybody watching the stream. regarding the way they handled the little brakes between the maps i am 100% sure that it was prerecorded, like anybody else that watched it. that they casted from replays is in fact 100% sure, cause after one of the players left after typing gg the ingame popup did not occur where you can select to go back to the score screen, this only happens in replays. and thats ofc a good thing. Who would want to have lagging casters from America while 2 players in Korea play?
Dude they're arguing about whether or not it was replay casted, not if that's good or bad.
Your comment misses the point.
Edit:
On February 22 2011 22:50 Tierfight wrote:
Those breaks are more like indication of live transmission, not pre recorded, learn something about live shows and then come to tell about how to recognize live show.
And about those game leavings, it is totally possible that they cut the video footage of game screen and return to casters instantly for other reasons.
There is absolutely no proof that the stream was pre-recorde and there is no proof that those games were replays.
I was watching the stream.
Really, it didn't feel strange to you at all?
Talk about being naive.
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I surely think the show was amateurish and production value was low, but there is no evidence or signs of pre-recording.
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Wow 400K? Thats...massive LOL.
No wonder IdrA went back to the US. Wonder if Jinro/Liquid will follow though. With now 4 players in GSL I'm not sure
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On February 22 2011 22:38 Zomodok wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 22:35 Rodregeus wrote:
Hopefuly this and GSL will cooperate and be shown in intervals to avoid overlapping each other. Why? Because the NASL will air at 4am eastern to overlap with the GSL?
I see you didn't read my entire post, and simply hit the reply button immediately after read the first line. In a vain hope of making someone sound dumb on the internet no doubt. When in actual fact you have made yourself come off as someone who lacks basic reading skills and comprehension.
Please read all of my posts before replying to me in future.
Thanks.
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The biggest SC2 League was just announced and people are bitching about some technical difficulties more than a month before this league even starts?
Just look at it like some kind of testrun, if you had problems witch lag or something like that. I'm sure that testing their equipment was one of the reasons to do it.
I have to say I'm totally pumped for this and I think iNcontroL is a good choice to be the "face" of the organisation.
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iNcontroL, get Anna on the floor doing interviews. Her MLG interviews came across really confident and professional.
TV-worthy.
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you are really arguing this?
so what about the totally different tone gretorps and incontrol voices had in the overlay breakes?
and even if they just switched the headphones for no reason for some seconds, it never was like you would do a live show at all and it never felt like this. the breakes like they were done dont indicate a non interrupted and fluent live transmission at all, like you say this.
and the fact that it were replays is proofed, just read my point about this again and watch the vods, you can see that on some of the maps where the cut to the casters would have been just to late to be faster then the ingame popup.
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I don't understand why so many comments in this thread are about the showmatch when that topic has its own thread. This is a thread about the NASL. As far as the two are related some comments might make sense, but so many comments have absolutely nothing to do with the NASL.
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On February 22 2011 22:50 Tierfight wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 22:40 bmg4ever wrote:On February 22 2011 22:26 Tierfight wrote:
How do you know if it was prerecorded cast of replays?
The stream itself atleast gives no proof about that. it was pretty obvious for everybody watching the stream. regarding the way they handled the little brakes between the maps i am 100% sure that it was prerecorded, like anybody else that watched it. that they casted from replays is in fact 100% sure, cause after one of the players left after typing gg the ingame popup did not occur where you can select to go back to the score screen, this only happens in replays. Those breaks are more like indication of live transmission, not pre recorded, learn something about live shows and then come to tell about how to recognize live show. And about those game leavings, it is totally possible that they cut the video footage of game screen and return to casters instantly for other reasons. There is absolutely no proof that the stream was pre-recorde and there is no proof that those games were replays. I was watching the stream.
The sound quality was vastly different when they were actually live.
They were covering up the replay bar.
Incontrol said the NASL would be live (with the implied understanding that this wasn't).
They even cut themselves off before they finished talking to go to the pre-recorded stuff.
It was painfully obvious
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On February 22 2011 23:02 bmg4ever wrote:
you are really arguing this?
so what about the totally different tone gretorps and incontrol voices had in the overlay breakes?
and even if they just switched the headphones for no reason for some seconds, it never was like you would do a live show at all and it never felt like this. the breakes like they were done dont indicate a non interrupted and fluent live transmission at all, like you say this.
and the fact that it were replays is proofed, just read my point about this again and watch the vods, you can see that on some of the maps where the cut to the casters would have been just to late to be faster then the ingame popup.
No, your arguments are not valid.
There is absolutely NO PROOF of replays. There is only your assumptions.
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On February 22 2011 22:56 spaZzNx-` wrote:Wow 400K? Thats...massive LOL. No wonder IdrA went back to the US. Wonder if Jinro/Liquid will follow though. With now 4 players in GSL I'm not sure
Since it's online they don't even have to move to the US. Of course only if the lag is bearable, don't know about that.
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Booo hooo! I paid for premium content and all I got was that lousy MS Paint background! Oh, wait...
When will all this whining end? So much pessimism and naysayers... It really was obvious that they had pre-recorded replays comments, but it was well thought out, they had really put some thought into it. If this is a scent of what is going to come, I believe it will be a good event with a decent production. Even if it fails, kudos for giving it a go and doing their best.
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On February 22 2011 23:04 Tierfight wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 23:02 bmg4ever wrote:
you are really arguing this?
so what about the totally different tone gretorps and incontrol voices had in the overlay breakes?
and even if they just switched the headphones for no reason for some seconds, it never was like you would do a live show at all and it never felt like this. the breakes like they were done dont indicate a non interrupted and fluent live transmission at all, like you say this.
and the fact that it were replays is proofed, just read my point about this again and watch the vods, you can see that on some of the maps where the cut to the casters would have been just to late to be faster then the ingame popup. No, your arguments are not valid. There is absolutely NO PROOF of replays. There is only your assumptions.
The pre-written news post on G4TV that went up as soon as the games were over referenced the outcome of the games.
Artosis is sick, but he sounded fine doing the post game interview (which would've been the same day in korea).
Get real
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I think that if they will be inviting koreans, they should invite one from each team. Each team would basiclly choose one to rep their team.
so for example; IM, they would send out Nestea or MVP, Zenex would send Kyrix(sp?),etc. so in the end there would probably be about 10 or so koreans; and the rest would be NA/ EU.
This method would create a very diverse and fair system with the best of the best players.
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On February 22 2011 23:04 Tierfight wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 23:02 bmg4ever wrote:
you are really arguing this?
so what about the totally different tone gretorps and incontrol voices had in the overlay breakes?
and even if they just switched the headphones for no reason for some seconds, it never was like you would do a live show at all and it never felt like this. the breakes like they were done dont indicate a non interrupted and fluent live transmission at all, like you say this.
and the fact that it were replays is proofed, just read my point about this again and watch the vods, you can see that on some of the maps where the cut to the casters would have been just to late to be faster then the ingame popup. No, your arguments are not valid. There is absolutely NO PROOF of replays. There is only your assumptions.
There is proof, there is a screenshot where you can see the replay tooltip out there.
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On February 22 2011 16:29 Jimmy Raynor wrote:
They should get Day9 for this? Why isn't the best caster invited to cast it?
I wonder if MLG has Day9 locked up for the time being. Interesting to watch MLG's response to this.
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I am quite astonished about the complaining about details in this thread. We get a real Starcraft league in the west. This is great! I hope they keep the excitment up by until the start by reavealing pieces of information now and then. such as map pool, invited players etc. I dont really mind the limit on the numbers of koreans either. We can watch the koreans in the GSL whenever we want. In fact I think it would be a good idea if each of the major koreans teams would send one only player. That way we would have one player representing IM, one player for OGS and so forth.
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i dont understand why anyone gives a flying fuck if they were replays or not.... they just announced a 400k prize pool for a tournament in the United States for starcraft 2, and people are bitching about a test run of equipment for some little $1500 showmatch between 2 guys we've seen play a hundred times before. Who gives a shit what happened during the showmatch, this is the biggest Starcraft 2 news since blizzard showed a teaser video in 2007!
I dont have much money, and i have never bought a premium package for any other event. But no other event is so important for the future of E-sports in the usa than this imo. If this fails, we can all watch koreans play each other for the next 10 years like we did in BW. If it succeeds (and it only will if we all support it) then we get to watch Sc2 in America. Sc2 on TV in the West! How can people be complaining about some stupid showmatch that means absolutely nothing! Go vote for your favorite player! Go get a coaching lesson, buy a fucking t-shirt! Support these guys and you will get your "perfect" live internet stream, maybe some day you can watch e-sports on tv like the koreans do.
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On February 22 2011 21:18 StewKer wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 20:48 coddan wrote:
If the voting doesn't matter, why does nasl.tv say that it increases the player's chances to be invited? *sigh* Really? Are you a troll like so many others? The voting is a PART of the process, it doesn't guarantee a person gets in or doesn't get into the tournament. The organizers will look at the list and take the list standings into consideration but it's not like the list is the only consideration when it comes to inviting players. So in that regard it does increase a player's chance of getting invited, but only to a point. The list is mostly a way for the community/viewers to feel like they are participating and is a fun thing. I personally have enjoyed casting my votes and leaving comments. Do I realize that who I vote for may not get in? Yeah, but at least my voice has been heard. Lot of you guys need to stop making issues out of nothing and arguing for the sake of arguing. Some of you have good posts with good points but some, like the above, are nothing but a waste of space.
Good job calling troll on valid questions. We have the website saying the voting matters. Then we have Geoff saying that the voting does in no way whatsoever matter. What's true? You need to stop assuming shit before you attack people.
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On February 22 2011 23:19 IndridCold wrote:
i dont understand why anyone gives a flying fuck if they were replays or not.... they just announced a 400k prize pool for a tournament in the United States for starcraft 2, and people are bitching about a test run of equipment for some little $1500 showmatch between 2 guys we've seen play a hundred times before. Who gives a shit what happened during the showmatch, this is the biggest Starcraft 2 news since blizzard showed a teaser video in 2007!
I dont have much money, and i have never bought a premium package for any other event. But no other event is so important for the future of E-sports in the usa than this imo. If this fails, we can all watch koreans play each other for the next 10 years like we did in BW. If it succeeds (and it only will if we all support it) then we get to watch Sc2 in America. Sc2 on TV in the West! How can people be complaining about some stupid showmatch that means absolutely nothing! Go vote for your favorite player! Go get a coaching lesson, buy a fucking t-shirt! Support these guys and you will get your "perfect" live internet stream, maybe some day you can watch e-sports on tv like the koreans do.
It's just money. I'd rather watch a 1k prize pool tourney where I am not facepalming at every little detail. Handing out half a million does not make a good show all by itself.
Is the cash going to make this a 'real' star league in the west? No it won't.
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On February 22 2011 23:04 Tierfight wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 23:02 bmg4ever wrote:
you are really arguing this?
so what about the totally different tone gretorps and incontrol voices had in the overlay breakes?
and even if they just switched the headphones for no reason for some seconds, it never was like you would do a live show at all and it never felt like this. the breakes like they were done dont indicate a non interrupted and fluent live transmission at all, like you say this.
and the fact that it were replays is proofed, just read my point about this again and watch the vods, you can see that on some of the maps where the cut to the casters would have been just to late to be faster then the ingame popup. No, your arguments are not valid. There is absolutely NO PROOF of replays. There is only your assumptions.
Except the fact you can see the Pause button between the overlays?
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On February 22 2011 23:29 coddan wrote:
Good job calling troll on valid questions. We have the website saying the voting matters. Then we have Geoff saying that the voting does in no way whatsoever matter. What's true? You need to stop assuming shit before you attack people.
You need to learn to read before you call people out.
"The voting is a fun way to get involved and support your favorite players. It helps but by no means WHAT SO EVER decides who gets selected."
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On February 22 2011 23:03 MoreFaSho wrote:
I don't understand why so many comments in this thread are about the showmatch when that topic has its own thread. This is a thread about the NASL. As far as the two are related some comments might make sense, but so many comments have absolutely nothing to do with the NASL.
NASL and the people behind it have no track record of running major events (which is extremely difficult to do and has put many companies out of business) so the only thing we have to base our opinions off are the showmatch, which from a production point of view was a complete disaster.
It just blows my mind that, with weeks to prepare, they would make such a mess of the long awaited, much hyped, grand unveiling of their tournament.
It seems to me like they held a $1500 showmatch to announce a $400k tournament and ran then the whole production on a $10 budget, which ultimately reflected poorly on the NASL and cast doubt where it was supposed to generate excitement.
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On February 22 2011 22:26 Tierfight wrote:
How do you know if it was prerecorded cast of replays?
The stream itself atleast gives no proof about that.
pls be quite you are wrong dude
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On February 22 2011 23:36 Panicc wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 22:26 Tierfight wrote:
How do you know if it was prerecorded cast of replays?
The stream itself atleast gives no proof about that. pls be quite you are wrong dude
Be quiet yourself without evidence.
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People need to calm down.
Was there mistakes made in the production? Yes, definitely. Could it have been better? Absolutely.
So? People make it sound like its the end of the world. Like the league will fail. And most people seem to imply that because this league likely will become the most prestigeous one due to the price money they HAVE TO have the best production ever. And they have to have it on their first broadcast.
Take it a bit easy. It just started. It will get better for sure, and even if it doesn't become TV-level production Im sure we'll be fine anyway. You dont need to burst out like the production team just commited murder. Just calmly tell them what they need to improve on, for example the sound desync problem.
And if you rather not watch at all because the oh-so-terrible production, then dont. It's their own problem more than anyone's. Without viewers the league will be a massive fail anyway. If you're still interested even though the production is not top notch? Keep watching, give them feedback about what you think they can do better and then sit back and hope it gets fixed.
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I hope there is a free stream aswell.
I first want to see it a season before i pay money for it, same way i did it in the GSL.
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Everybody needs to take a step back and take a breather. Especially the ones going "They just announced a SC2 league in the west and you guys are being critical?"
Yes, they have every right to be critical because Incontrol himself said in the interview with G4 that it's going to take community involvement in order for this to take off and become something big. Most of the "criticalness" that's been presented so far has been really good feedback that hopefully Incontrol and the crew take to heart and move to make things better.
I really agree with the first impression post that was a few pages back, the showmatch was supposed to get people excited about a starcraft league and the production value of it looked horrible. Down to the windows media player transitions and the horrible font of "Clash of the Titans". Especially when there is a program that keeps score and allows you to put overlay pictures up made from a TL user that looks a ton more professional than what was shown.
It all comes back to the hype that was thrown at the announcement and the "it's going to be big", you start setting people's expectations up and when it comes nowhere close to that people are going to become critical. Will things change for the NASL? I'm pretty confident that they will and like I posted earlier in this thread, I'll be supporting it because it's a huge baby-step for eSports in the West.
((As for the actual showmatch and the complaints about it being Replay vs Live it just comes down to mute points. Guess what, by definition they were showing things Live to us for the first time no matter if they were casting replays or what. While there are a lot of indicators (Replay bar/transitions/Incontrol comments/etc) it just comes down to the fact of why you need to care that much anyway. The biggest issue was the sync issue and the buffering issue that happened to some people. I watched it perfectly fine but I had friends go "Oh Incontrol just said this huge force was goin to do something and then it juttered and Idra gg'd" and laugh it off and make production jokes the same way the crew made fun of HuK and Kelly during the Code A games.
First impressions means a lot in the business world, so we'll see.
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The replay bar is usually a good indication that it was cast from replays. I don't know why people are upset about that, though. Idra and Jin'ro are both in Korea. All casting live would do is add technical difficulties to the actual games.
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Dear Incontrol,
Thank you so much for taking the effort to start up this NASL. I really look forward to what you can do with the NASL. Here is my feedback on the NASL, as well as last nights show-match stream.
My interpretation of the show-match is that it was as much a tech-demo/test for the upcoming NASL casts as it was a match between two great players. Based on that, here are my thoughts
1. From the eastern US, I had zero issues with the Justin.tv stream. The video quality was excellent. It definitely shows that you have put a lot of effort into working with Justin.tv to make sure the stream has the necessary bandwidth.
2. The addition of yourself and Gretorp on a side video at the bottom corner was an especially nice touch. Also, the brief shots of the players was very nice. I hope that both of these are features that continue in the NASL casts.
3. The sound desync was a major issue. I have no idea what caused it, but this needs to be avoided.
4. As far as the casting goes, I felt you and gretorp did a great job. The only thing I would prefer would be a little more energy in your casting, as I really feels this adds excitement. The games weren't the best for being able to get excited all the time, but I would still like more energy.
As for the NASL itself,
5. I REALLY like the idea of the 10 man group stage. I think this is a great addition to the NASL, and also distinguishes it from other tournaments. I'm not sure about the rest of the community, but I'm tired of seeing a 128 or 256 or whatever man tournament over and over again. Even the GSL basically feels like this, since the group stages are only four players each.
6. As we saw with the hissyfit surrounding the Blizzcon invites, its very important to release the information about how players can qualify for the tournament as soon as possible. This also holds true for how players can stay in the tournament field for the next round (a la staying in code S).
7. While we would likely prefer live, I don't think theres anything wrong with casting from replays should you need to within the group stage.
8.While I realize you have stated that teh voting does not count, I dont think there's anything wrong with the idea inviting X players based off fan voting, especially for the first tournament. In the future, its probably not the best idea, but I think it would be a good way to drum up some excitement for the first round of the tournament.
9. While it may be too much of a time commitment right now, I think the idea of a weekly roundup (something like a sportscenter) of the action that week in the tournament would be fantastic. Most people aren't going to be able to watch every match in a week. Most of those people aren't going to want to spend the time digging through threads on TL to find results. However, if you have something like a weekly roundup, you can keep more of the causal watchers interested in the tournaments. Growth of e-sports is all about bring new people into the fold, and that means producing content that is digestible by more than the small percent of population that reads TL.
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On February 22 2011 22:29 Myia wrote:
I dont think that $20 for 5 matches 5 times a week for 9 weeks, and then an open, plus finals, so, what, about 300 games? is at all a ridiculous fee. Infact, it works out alot cheaper than GSL, and look how many people they have watching that (alot).
Nobody cares how many games there are if they are of shit quality. Would you pay extra to see code A? Even more to see code B? No, you wouldn't. Would you say to someone who gets NFL Sunday Ticket that you're getting a relative bargain by paying for the college football package? I mean, it has more games right?
This tournament will be lucky to feature even three players of Code S caliber, the only people that will pay to watch it are the very hardcore fans. This price point will practically ensure that NASL doesn't grow from its fanbase on TL, and when Starcraft is only played professionally in Korea in 5 years we'll point to this failure as the reason why.
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Am I missing something, or how is whether they cast from replays or live relevant to anything? Ive seen plenty of replays cast with both good and bad results, just like I've done with live casts.
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On February 22 2011 23:41 cubicle47b wrote:
The replay bar is usually a good indication that it was cast from replays. I don't know why people are upset about that, though. Idra and Jin'ro are both in Korea. All casting live would do is add technical difficulties to the actual games.
Well this had all of the down sides of casting replays but none of the upsides, such as being able to verify that what you're recording is actually good. Maybe they did and couldn't be arsed to redo it I don't know. However if this is indeed 10 days old then there is just no excuse for not doing that.
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Im looking at this as a test, nothing more, nothing less. This pointless replay discussion asside, this was a good way for them to get some responses, look at the show themselves, and now they have some weeks to weed out quirks, smaller and bigger.
Hopefully this will go well, so much promise in this project, and if they get off to a decent start, it could grow to be something we will all love ^^
I for one didnt watch it to catch all the flaws and whatnot, and even if I noticed some, im not gonna judge them preemptively because of that, in my eyes, this was just a, as stated, a test.
Now, nobody would have issues with critisicm, but please, for the love of all thats holy, dont turn this into yet another fest where its just a bunch of nerds being angry at eachother, trying to get the last word -.-
Its probably to late for that though
Anyways, this shows great promise and I hope it turns out awesome!
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YouarrgettingtheverycomprehensibleandknowledgebleDiggityasacommentatorforNASLareyousureaboutitisn'tthereanyoneelsebetter?
I would name who I prefer but I don't want to appear to be a die-hard biased fan of someone else. But rather someone who speaks from his experience of listening to that commentator.
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I'm guessing the matches took place earlier in the day or maybe the day before. I won't pretend to understand what happened with the production. That is a completely separate issue, though.
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On February 22 2011 23:45 Kreb wrote:
Am I missing something, or how is whether they cast from replays or live relevant to anything? Ive seen plenty of replays cast with both good and bad results, just like I've done with live casts.
I think the dissapointment regarding casting replays comes from two things:
1. The pre-hype of this was huge and there was an understanding from nearly all of us watching the show that this was going to be a live event. Live as in "Jinro and Idra is playing right this moment". Not live as in "their replays are casted live".
2. The synching problem hadn't been that huge of a deal if this was "Incontrols friends and family tournament from his room". But since the hype was so big, and it turned out to be an awesome news as in a 400k league kicking off in the west the amateurish mistakes/and problems are less forgiving.
People, in their rights, are concerned that if you can't even make the production of a showmatch, you have hyped and prepared for weeks, near perfect how are you going to run a 400k league?
I, on the other hand, "am glad" about the mistakes they made. It's better that they make the mistakes now and learn from them instead of making these mistakes when the league starts.
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Best of luck to Geoff and others launching this. I really hope they're looking at this as just an adventure, and not necessarily a business investment; see GSL/GOMTV. To be frank, if the production value from last nights game was indicative, as a business it will simply fizzle. The casting will get better feedback; we're all partial to casters we've followed for a long time. But, even MLG never had such resounding success here, and that has nothing to do with the prize pool, or even if Day9 & Wheat were casting, imho. People simply want to see and pay for the best play; the Korean scene simply exudes professionalism - from the team houses to their methodical play to the production studios. Watching NA & Euro players is kind of unorthodox; which is intriguing and fun on its own at times. But, most other matches look like a pick up game of futbol with your friends at the park. I think that's the perception hurdle you have here, but I would capitalize on that perception difference, and make it work somehow. Here's to wishing you success in NA as a business.
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On February 22 2011 23:58 papaz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 23:45 Kreb wrote:
Am I missing something, or how is whether they cast from replays or live relevant to anything? Ive seen plenty of replays cast with both good and bad results, just like I've done with live casts. I think the dissapointment regarding casting replays comes from two things: 1. The pre-hype of this was huge and there was an understanding from nearly all of us watching the show that this was going to be a live event. Live as in "Jinro and Idra is playing right this moment". Not live as in "their replays are casted live". 2. The synching problem hadn't been that huge of a deal if this was "Incontrols friends and family tournament from his room". But since the hype was so big, and it turned out to be an awesome news as in a 400k league kicking off in the west the amateurish mistakes/and problems are less forgiving. People, in their rights, are concerned that if you can't even make the production of a showmatch, you have hyped and prepared for weeks, near perfect how are you going to run a 400k league? I, on the other hand, "am glad" about the mistakes they made. It's better that they make the mistakes now and learn from them instead of making these mistakes when the league starts.
I agree; i think everything was great besides the sync issue. Some people are disappointing by a cast of a replay, but mentioned before, that would cause technical problems because of geographic locations of IdrA and Jinro.
The production is only going to get better by learning from mistakes and improving on them; like you said.
This is the FIRST major tournament in NA; things can only get better Gotta think on the bright side sometimes instead of bashing and being negative ALL the time.
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i think the hype on this is just cause of the money..
look at TSL3 its going to be EPIC
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I liked everything up to the $20-$25 for one season. That would pay for TWO GSL seasons. I really want SC2 to take over North America as anyone, but that is a really high price for such a new, unproven tournament. I don't see them getting as many people to pay.
I know they say they are going to have much more content, but we don't even know what that really means. It could just be some cheesy player interviews for all we know. Until it's a proven high level production tournament such as GSL, don't even think of expecting people to pay that much.
You guys hyped this up really well, and got a whole lot of attention, but that's not enough to justify such a high price.
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Very skeptical about the NASL. Obviously there are the concerns about quality from all the issues that came with the showmatch, but there's more to it. Western players won't deliver the quality of games we're used to from the GSL, and 20$ for a season ticket is a bit much considering game quality, production value and commentary will all lag behind GSL, at least in season 1.
So far the main argument is "omg 400k $" but that doesn't really amaze me. Several tournaments with high prize money have been won by sloppy play over the past months of SC2 just because there were no real contenders for the money. And several other "league" formats like the Black Dragon League aren't half as exciting as I'd hoped they would be.
I don't want to needlessly bash it all; I think the concept is a very good one and a successful western SC2 league could be a great addition. But at the very best they've got a tremendous amount of work to do before this can actually deliver decent entertainment, and I'm not sure they'll manage to do so before April.
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Let me add something to my other statement.
Another huge problem I have with this is that the games, as far as I can tell, are going to be casted from replays. This causes mainly 2 huge problems.
1. The games will ALWAYS be spoiled by anyone that can look at the players match history. If you don't know ANYONE can look at any players match history so expect spoiled results right form the start.
2. When games are casted from replays it is very often that the two casters are out of sync during the game. They always start shouting something exciting when on our screen... nothing is going on.
The only real, exciting, fun games to watch will the be finals. When you have a LAN setting, everything changes. The games just get so much more exciting when you can see the players and knowing you're right there with them watching their every move. It adds pressure and excitement.
Hopefully everyone involved doesn't take this as needless bashing or hating. The reason we are all posting so many details about every little thing is because we WANT THIS SO BADLY TO SUCCEED. Just take it as criticism and hopefully we can see it in the final product.
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
On February 23 2011 00:14 imaROBOT wrote:
Let me add something to my other statement.
Another huge problem I have with this is that the games, as far as I can tell, are going to be casted from replays. This causes mainly 2 huge problems.
1. The games will ALWAYS be spoiled by anyone that can look at the players match history. If you don't know ANYONE can look at any players match history so expect spoiled results right form the start.
2. When games are casted from replays it is very often that the two casters are out of sync during the game. They always start shouting something exciting when on our screen... nothing is going on.
The only real, exciting, fun games to watch will the be finals. When you have a LAN setting, everything changes. The games just get so much more exciting when you can see the players and knowing you're right there with them watching their every move. It adds pressure and excitement.
Fortunately, you are wrong, and all games will be casted live.
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On February 23 2011 00:17 motbob wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 00:14 imaROBOT wrote:
Let me add something to my other statement.
Another huge problem I have with this is that the games, as far as I can tell, are going to be casted from replays. This causes mainly 2 huge problems.
1. The games will ALWAYS be spoiled by anyone that can look at the players match history. If you don't know ANYONE can look at any players match history so expect spoiled results right form the start.
2. When games are casted from replays it is very often that the two casters are out of sync during the game. They always start shouting something exciting when on our screen... nothing is going on.
The only real, exciting, fun games to watch will the be finals. When you have a LAN setting, everything changes. The games just get so much more exciting when you can see the players and knowing you're right there with them watching their every move. It adds pressure and excitement. Fortunately, you are wrong, and all games will be casted live.
Okay that is awesome, thank you. Sorry for my lack of knowledge.
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On February 23 2011 00:14 imaROBOT wrote:
Let me add something to my other statement.
Another huge problem I have with this is that the games, as far as I can tell, are going to be casted from replays. This causes mainly 2 huge problems.
1. The games will ALWAYS be spoiled by anyone that can look at the players match history. If you don't know ANYONE can look at any players match history so expect spoiled results right form the start.
2. When games are casted from replays it is very often that the two casters are out of sync during the game. They always start shouting something exciting when on our screen... nothing is going on.
The only real, exciting, fun games to watch will the be finals. When you have a LAN setting, everything changes. The games just get so much more exciting when you can see the players and knowing you're right there with them watching their every move. It adds pressure and excitement.
thats why i like to watch GSL the players are right there you can see how they look like and if they are stressed confident before the games..
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God people stop comparing the price to GSL. GSL is for 4 weeks and NASL season is 10, so the price 25 $ is realistic
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.Let me add something to my other statement.
Another huge problem I have with this is that the games, as far as I can tell, are going to be casted from replays. This causes mainly 2 huge problems.
1. The games will ALWAYS be spoiled by anyone that can look at the players match history. If you don't know ANYONE can look at any players match history so expect spoiled results right form the start.
2. When games are casted from replays it is very often that the two casters are out of sync during the game. They always start shouting something exciting when on our screen... nothing is going on.
The only real, exciting, fun games to watch will the be finals. When you have a LAN setting, everything changes. The games just get so much more exciting when you can see the players and knowing you're right there with them watching their every move. It adds pressure and excitement.
For the last time people, the games are not going to ba cast from replays watch the damn interview
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On February 23 2011 00:18 aderum wrote:
God people stop comparing the price to GSL. GSL is for 4 weeks and NASL season is 10, so the price 25 $ is realistic
Not when you don't know what you're paying for. It could be ten weeks of what..? Just games? It's not proven so we don't know the quality of games, production value, or any of that. It's a pretty damn high price when you consider that you could pay for 2 GSL seasons.
So 2 GSL seasons comes to what.. 8 weeks or little more right? So technically they are very close, but GSL is on a live stage, NASL so far just looks to be the same as any weekend tournament stream, like ZOTAC and Go4SC2.
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How do you apply for the NASL?
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I really want Psy to play, I think it would elevate a great player to new levels of skill and I just enjoy his style of play as a solid macro zerg with high levels of innovation.
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On February 23 2011 00:22 mTw|NarutO wrote:
How do you apply for the NASL?
in the NASL?
You must be on a team, must be available to travel to the main event, must be able to play on the NA server. If you meet these requirements, please make a video of yourself answering the 5 pre-season questions, upload the video to youtube and mail the link to apply@nasl.tv (Also include: Name, ID, Team, and Race) .
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On February 23 2011 00:08 imaROBOT wrote:
I liked everything up to the $20-$25 for one season. That would pay for TWO GSL seasons. I really want SC2 to take over North America as anyone, but that is a really high price for such a new, unproven tournament. I don't see them getting as many people to pay.
I know they say they are going to have much more content, but we don't even know what that really means. It could just be some cheesy player interviews for all we know. Until it's a proven high level production tournament such as GSL, don't even think of expecting people to pay that much.
You guys hyped this up really well, and got a whole lot of attention, but that's not enough to justify such a high price.
umm you did read the part about the free low quality stream right?
also not to sound like a pompous ass, but seriously is $20 such a huge deal? It's the same cost as taking someone out to lunch at friendly's or something.. seriously no offense but if $20 is going to break your bank account then you proably need to stop spending time watching SC2 and get your shit together.. for the amount of content they are offering it seems like a perfectly reasonable price..
plus they are offering a FREE lower quality stream... free.. yet people still complain.. I guess they want high quality streams & content without having to pay anything (or like 5$?).. that'd be great except NASL would be bankrupt after like two seasons and proably need to shutdown.. unfortunately it's not a charity so yes they do need revenue to pay for the content they are providing.. it's this crazy concept called business..
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Am I the only one who finds nasl.tv website terrible? It looks worse than websites of gold player based teams. I bet sponsors required a good promotion for their, and with so unproffesional site it will be hard to provide the new ones.
My hype is over because if something THAT IMPORTANT is made by unskilled amateurs (i mean web design here), I'm worried about rest of the stuff.
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
On February 23 2011 00:22 mTw|NarutO wrote:
How do you apply for the NASL?
No one knows yet.
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On February 23 2011 00:24 stk01001 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 00:08 imaROBOT wrote:
I liked everything up to the $20-$25 for one season. That would pay for TWO GSL seasons. I really want SC2 to take over North America as anyone, but that is a really high price for such a new, unproven tournament. I don't see them getting as many people to pay.
I know they say they are going to have much more content, but we don't even know what that really means. It could just be some cheesy player interviews for all we know. Until it's a proven high level production tournament such as GSL, don't even think of expecting people to pay that much.
You guys hyped this up really well, and got a whole lot of attention, but that's not enough to justify such a high price. umm you did read the part about the free low quality stream right? also not to sound like a pompous ass, but seriously is $20 such a huge deal? It's the same cost as taking someone out to lunch at friendly's or something.. seriously no offense but if $20 is going to break your bank account then you proably need to stop spending time watching SC2 and get your shit together.. for the amount of content they are offering it seems like a perfectly reasonable price.. plus they are offering a FREE lower quality stream... free.. yet people still complain.. I guess they want high quality streams & content without having to pay anything (or like 5$?).. that'd be great except NASL would be bankrupt after like two seasons and proably need to shutdown.. unfortunately it's not a charity so yes they do need revenue to pay for the content they are providing.. it's this crazy concept called business..
I don't understand why everyone must assume I'm just complaining for no reason and take personal stabs at everyone.
Is $20 a lot to me? you? No it's not.
Could it be to someone else that really wants to watch? YES.
I understand there is a free stream, and that's great. Everyone is comparing this to the GSL because the GSL is the only proven tournament that runs every month and has a pay subscription for VODS. It always has a free stream, but there will always be times where you're going to miss it, and need to watch VODS.
I highly doubt that the NASL VODS will be free, and that is mostly what I'm paying for, just like the GSL.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
On February 23 2011 00:27 NieSwiety wrote:
Am I the only one who finds nasl.tv website terrible? It looks worse than websites of gold player based teams. I bet sponsors required a good promotion for their, and with so unproffesional site it will be hard to provide the new ones.
My hype is over because if something THAT IMPORTANT is made by unskilled amateurs (i mean web design here), I'm worried about rest of the stuff.
oh god,:facepalm:.
The website design is fine,a little overdone but totally readable and user friendly.
@ImaRobot:you are paying 20$ for 3 months.not 1 month like the GSL.
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On February 23 2011 00:27 NieSwiety wrote:
Am I the only one who finds nasl.tv website terrible? It looks worse than websites of gold player based teams. I bet sponsors required a good promotion for their, and with so unproffesional site it will be hard to provide the new ones.
My hype is over because if something THAT IMPORTANT is made by unskilled amateurs (i mean web design here), I'm worried about rest of the stuff.
You are really extrapolating too much from the website design. I agree it's a bit rough, but NASL technically isn't even active yet. I'm sure it'll be updated soon enough.
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On February 23 2011 00:24 imaROBOT wrote:in the NASL? You must be on a team, must be available to travel to the main event, must be able to play on the NA server. If you meet these requirements, please make a video of yourself answering the 5 pre-season questions, upload the video to youtube and mail the link to apply@nasl.tv (Also include: Name, ID, Team, and Race) .
-_- Awesome troll. Just because I don't have the time at work to read through the whole thread there's no reason to reply in such a manner. =.=.
On February 23 2011 00:27 motbob wrote:No one knows yet.
Thank you motbob.
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On February 23 2011 00:31 mTw|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 00:24 imaROBOT wrote:On February 23 2011 00:22 mTw|NarutO wrote:
How do you apply for the NASL? in the NASL? You must be on a team, must be available to travel to the main event, must be able to play on the NA server. If you meet these requirements, please make a video of yourself answering the 5 pre-season questions, upload the video to youtube and mail the link to apply@nasl.tv (Also include: Name, ID, Team, and Race) . -_- Awesome troll. Just because I don't have the time at work to read through the whole thread there's no reason to reply in such a manner. =.=. Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 00:27 motbob wrote:On February 23 2011 00:22 mTw|NarutO wrote:
How do you apply for the NASL? No one knows yet. Thank you motbob.
Sorry I wasn't meaning to troll...?
I just copied that information from the NASL.tv website..
It says right there, "how do I apply to be in the NASL".
So sorry if that wasn't what you were looking for. Jesus everyone is so hostile here, even the pro players.
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On February 22 2011 23:58 papaz wrote:
I, on the other hand, "am glad" about the mistakes they made. It's better that they make the mistakes now and learn from them instead of making these mistakes when the league starts.
This is so true.
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On February 23 2011 00:31 mTw|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 00:24 imaROBOT wrote:On February 23 2011 00:22 mTw|NarutO wrote:
How do you apply for the NASL? in the NASL? You must be on a team, must be available to travel to the main event, must be able to play on the NA server. If you meet these requirements, please make a video of yourself answering the 5 pre-season questions, upload the video to youtube and mail the link to apply@nasl.tv (Also include: Name, ID, Team, and Race) . -_- Awesome troll. Just because I don't have the time at work to read through the whole thread there's no reason to reply in such a manner. =.=. Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 00:27 motbob wrote:On February 23 2011 00:22 mTw|NarutO wrote:
How do you apply for the NASL? No one knows yet. Thank you motbob.
he wasnt trolling its in the nasl.tv website
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8748 Posts
On February 23 2011 00:31 mTw|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 00:24 imaROBOT wrote:On February 23 2011 00:22 mTw|NarutO wrote:
How do you apply for the NASL? in the NASL? You must be on a team, must be available to travel to the main event, must be able to play on the NA server. If you meet these requirements, please make a video of yourself answering the 5 pre-season questions, upload the video to youtube and mail the link to apply@nasl.tv (Also include: Name, ID, Team, and Race) . -_- Awesome troll. Just because I don't have the time at work to read through the whole thread there's no reason to reply in such a manner. =.=.
Noooo... on nasl.tv, there is an FAQ. Your question, "How do I apply to be in the NASL?" is in it. imaROBOT quoted the exact answer provided by nasl.tv's FAQ, as befits his nature.
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On February 23 2011 00:31 mTw|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 00:24 imaROBOT wrote:On February 23 2011 00:22 mTw|NarutO wrote:
How do you apply for the NASL? in the NASL? You must be on a team, must be available to travel to the main event, must be able to play on the NA server. If you meet these requirements, please make a video of yourself answering the 5 pre-season questions, upload the video to youtube and mail the link to apply@nasl.tv (Also include: Name, ID, Team, and Race) . -_- Awesome troll. Just because I don't have the time at work to read through the whole thread there's no reason to reply in such a manner. =.=. Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 00:27 motbob wrote:On February 23 2011 00:22 mTw|NarutO wrote:
How do you apply for the NASL? No one knows yet. Thank you motbob.
Read the FAQ on the website; he is actually correct.
Oops, delete my post since a bunch replied already :3
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On February 23 2011 00:33 imaROBOT wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 00:31 mTw|NarutO wrote:On February 23 2011 00:24 imaROBOT wrote:On February 23 2011 00:22 mTw|NarutO wrote:
How do you apply for the NASL? in the NASL? You must be on a team, must be available to travel to the main event, must be able to play on the NA server. If you meet these requirements, please make a video of yourself answering the 5 pre-season questions, upload the video to youtube and mail the link to apply@nasl.tv (Also include: Name, ID, Team, and Race) . -_- Awesome troll. Just because I don't have the time at work to read through the whole thread there's no reason to reply in such a manner. =.=. On February 23 2011 00:27 motbob wrote:On February 23 2011 00:22 mTw|NarutO wrote:
How do you apply for the NASL? No one knows yet. Thank you motbob. Sorry I wasn't meaning to troll...? I just copied that information from the NASL.tv website.. It says right there, "how do I apply to be in the NASL". So sorry if that wasn't what you were looking for. Jesus everyone is so hostile here, even the pro players.
Sorry for th double post, but why do you need to post a video of yourself? And what are the 5 questions?
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I wonder why idra move back to us when this is still a online tournament.
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On February 23 2011 00:37 Svartstol wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 00:33 imaROBOT wrote:On February 23 2011 00:31 mTw|NarutO wrote:On February 23 2011 00:24 imaROBOT wrote:On February 23 2011 00:22 mTw|NarutO wrote:
How do you apply for the NASL? in the NASL? You must be on a team, must be available to travel to the main event, must be able to play on the NA server. If you meet these requirements, please make a video of yourself answering the 5 pre-season questions, upload the video to youtube and mail the link to apply@nasl.tv (Also include: Name, ID, Team, and Race) . -_- Awesome troll. Just because I don't have the time at work to read through the whole thread there's no reason to reply in such a manner. =.=. On February 23 2011 00:27 motbob wrote:On February 23 2011 00:22 mTw|NarutO wrote:
How do you apply for the NASL? No one knows yet. Thank you motbob. Sorry I wasn't meaning to troll...? I just copied that information from the NASL.tv website.. It says right there, "how do I apply to be in the NASL". So sorry if that wasn't what you were looking for. Jesus everyone is so hostile here, even the pro players. Sorry for th double post, but why do you need to post a video of yourself? And what are the 5 questions?
Yeah I found that weird, and it also doesn't even tell you what the questions are. At least I couldn't find them.
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On February 23 2011 00:29 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 00:27 NieSwiety wrote:
Am I the only one who finds nasl.tv website terrible? It looks worse than websites of gold player based teams. I bet sponsors required a good promotion for their, and with so unproffesional site it will be hard to provide the new ones.
My hype is over because if something THAT IMPORTANT is made by unskilled amateurs (i mean web design here), I'm worried about rest of the stuff. oh god,:facepalm:. The website design is fine,a little overdone but totally readable and user friendly.
Well. Im an experienced webdesigner. From graphical point of view, design fits more to amateur clan, than one of the biggest esport leagues. It's not about pure hate, or "I COULD DO BETTER" (In fact I could - lol). I just think a good and elastic design would cost like 1/100 of monthly budget (players wouldn't seen the difference in rewards), and it would help with getting sponsors for season IV and so. Right now eSports is seen for many as a wasting of time of immature guys, and unprofesional site just fits to that stereotype.
On February 23 2011 00:30 mav451 wrote:
You are really extrapolating too much from the website design. I agree it's a bit rough, but NASL technically isn't even active yet. I'm sure it'll be updated soon enough.
Sure it's not active yet, but they had planty of time to do that good. First impression is important, and my first impression is bad.
I know as a graphic designer and public relation manager I see the stuff different, and for regular viewer it's ok, but still...
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On the price tag
I just want to step in to give a huge WTF at all those who are complaining about the 20-25$ price tag.
25$ / (3h/night * 5nights/week * 13 weeks) = 13 cents per hour
Do you realize you're whining like spoiled brats about being given a great entertainment product for about 13 cents per hour?! This is beyond ridiculous, I can't believe some are actually complaining... Oh and yeah... They also provide a free stream!!! And really guys, please put this into perspective. 20 bucks is about what you'll pay (if you're very reasonable) for any type of night out with friends. It's about 2 beers in a bar... geez it's NOTHING!
On the players
I also want to point out that while the caliber of play *might* not be as high as with the koreans in GSL, I personally find the western type of play much more fun! Think Kiwikaki, Catz, TLO, etc... In the GSL, it's basically the same matches over and over again. There is no place for crazy stuff, while this is much more frequent in the tournaments in NA or EU. And I also believe the top 50 "foreign" players can compete with the top 50 koreans no problem in terms of skill.
This in my opinion will make the NASL so great to watch, with the added bonus that it won't be in the middle of the night!
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
On February 23 2011 00:38 NieSwiety wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 00:29 BLinD-RawR wrote:On February 23 2011 00:27 NieSwiety wrote:
Am I the only one who finds nasl.tv website terrible? It looks worse than websites of gold player based teams. I bet sponsors required a good promotion for their, and with so unproffesional site it will be hard to provide the new ones.
My hype is over because if something THAT IMPORTANT is made by unskilled amateurs (i mean web design here), I'm worried about rest of the stuff. oh god,:facepalm:. The website design is fine,a little overdone but totally readable and user friendly. Well. Im an experienced webdesigner. From graphical point of view, design fits more to amateur clan, than one of the biggest esport leagues. It's not about pure hate, or "I COULD DO BETTER" (In fact I could - lol). I just think a good and elastic design would cost like 1/100 of monthly budget (players wouldn't seen the difference in rewards), and it would help with getting sponsors for season IV and so. Right now eSports is seen for many as a wasting of time of immature guys, and unprofesional site just fits to that stereotype.
you should apply for the web design postion then,PM iNcontroL or something.
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On February 23 2011 00:27 NieSwiety wrote:
Am I the only one who finds nasl.tv website terrible? It looks worse than websites of gold player based teams. I bet sponsors required a good promotion for their, and with so unproffesional site it will be hard to provide the new ones.
My hype is over because if something THAT IMPORTANT is made by unskilled amateurs (i mean web design here), I'm worried about rest of the stuff.
What's wrong with the website? I actually like it. It doesn't have much content yet, but that's not a design issue. I also am not sure what you mean by comparing it to team sites - those are usually based around forums and such. Currently this website is only supposed to showcase the hype video and link you to their faqs and little speech thing, so I'm not sure what the problems are.
Edit: what I'm trying to say is, this might be bad if it were a team site, but I think you are judging it on the wrong basis. It serves it's purpose well IMO.
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we will see if foreigns can beat koreans in TSL3 ;p
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On February 23 2011 00:38 CursedFeanor wrote:On the playersI also want to point out that while the caliber of play *might* not be as high as with the koreans in GSL, I personally find the western type of play much more fun! Think Kiwikaki, Catz, TLO, etc... In the GSL, it's basically the same matches over and over again. There is no place for crazy stuff, while this is much more frequent in the tournaments in NA or EU. And I also believe the top 50 "foreign" players can compete with the top 50 koreans no problem in terms of skill. This in my opinion will make the NASL so great to watch, with the added bonus that it won't be in the middle of the night!
I'm a bit scared that the big prize pool is going to scare the crazy tactics away. I mean, 100k isn't something you would want to waste trying some fancy 6pool 10 spire build. (This is an exaggeration but you get my point i hope) But time will tell for sure.
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On February 23 2011 00:35 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 00:31 mTw|NarutO wrote:On February 23 2011 00:24 imaROBOT wrote:On February 23 2011 00:22 mTw|NarutO wrote:
How do you apply for the NASL? in the NASL? You must be on a team, must be available to travel to the main event, must be able to play on the NA server. If you meet these requirements, please make a video of yourself answering the 5 pre-season questions, upload the video to youtube and mail the link to apply@nasl.tv (Also include: Name, ID, Team, and Race) . -_- Awesome troll. Just because I don't have the time at work to read through the whole thread there's no reason to reply in such a manner. =.=. Noooo... on nasl.tv, there is an FAQ. Your question, "How do I apply to be in the NASL?" is in it. imaROBOT quoted the exact answer provided by nasl.tv's FAQ, as befits his nature.
I'm sorry then. The fact that NASL.tv doesn't show anything for me plus the fact that motbob said no one knows yet made me think he's trolling.
Actually nasl.tv just shows the countdown for me :-( Thanks NonY and the others. I'm sorry imaROBOT.
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On February 23 2011 00:38 CursedFeanor wrote:On the price tagI just want to step in to give a huge WTF at all those who are complaining about the 20-25$ price tag. 25$ / (3h/night * 5nights/week * 13 weeks) = 13 cents per hour Do you realize you're whining like spoiled brats about being given a great entertainment product for about 13 cents per hour?! This is beyond ridiculous, I can't believe some are actually complaining... Oh and yeah... They also provide a free stream!!! And really guys, please put this into perspective. 20 bucks is about what you'll pay (if you're very reasonable) for any type of night out with friends. It's about 2 beers in a bar... geez it's NOTHING! On the playersI also want to point out that while the caliber of play *might* not be as high as with the koreans in GSL, I personally find the western type of play much more fun! Think Kiwikaki, Catz, TLO, etc... In the GSL, it's basically the same matches over and over again. There is no place for crazy stuff, while this is much more frequent in the tournaments in NA or EU. And I also believe the top 50 "foreign" players can compete with the top 50 koreans no problem in terms of skill. This in my opinion will make the NASL so great to watch, with the added bonus that it won't be in the middle of the night!
You realize that we don't know if it's even going to be a "great entertainment product", because we haven't even seen it. If were going off of the show match we saw, I wouldn't pay that high of a price for that. I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt, so well see.
Yeah I know I can just watch the free stream.. Actually, I give up, can't have an actually intelligent discussion with people like you. Nothing personal towards you cursed, but others have responded exactly as you did, thinking that were whining brats somehow.... ffs.
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
Oh, looks like I was wrong about not knowing how to apply. I'll put that at the top of the OP.
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On February 23 2011 00:41 mTw|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 00:35 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On February 23 2011 00:31 mTw|NarutO wrote:On February 23 2011 00:24 imaROBOT wrote:On February 23 2011 00:22 mTw|NarutO wrote:
How do you apply for the NASL? in the NASL? You must be on a team, must be available to travel to the main event, must be able to play on the NA server. If you meet these requirements, please make a video of yourself answering the 5 pre-season questions, upload the video to youtube and mail the link to apply@nasl.tv (Also include: Name, ID, Team, and Race) . -_- Awesome troll. Just because I don't have the time at work to read through the whole thread there's no reason to reply in such a manner. =.=. Noooo... on nasl.tv, there is an FAQ. Your question, "How do I apply to be in the NASL?" is in it. imaROBOT quoted the exact answer provided by nasl.tv's FAQ, as befits his nature. I'm sorry then. The fact that NASL.tv doesn't show anything for me plus the fact that motbob said no one knows yet made me think he's trolling. Actually nasl.tv just shows the countdown for me :-( Thanks NonY and the others. I'm sorry imaROBOT.
maybe its cache problem hit f5 or delete cache
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On February 23 2011 00:38 CursedFeanor wrote:
On the price tag
I just want to step in to give a huge WTF at all those who are complaining about the 20-25$ price tag.
25$ / (3h/night * 5nights/week * 13 weeks) = 13 cents per hour
Do you realize you're whining like spoiled brats about being given a great entertainment product for about 13 cents per hour?! This is beyond ridiculous, I can't believe some are actually complaining... Oh and yeah... They also provide a free stream!!! And really guys, please put this into perspective. 20 bucks is about what you'll pay (if you're very reasonable) for any type of night out with friends. It's about 2 beers in a bar... geez it's NOTHING!
Several people have voiced legitimate concerns regarding the price; none of those were "whining". I'm pretty sure noone taking part in this discussion is in a position to care too much about 20$ since we all seem to have plenty of time to waste it on the interwebz.
Please don't start with the real life price comparisons á la "that's one trip to the bar/cinema" because that's not what price discussions are about. Believe or not, there is potential for discussion with a 20$ price tag and you're not helping with your "everyone who doesn't agree with me must be whining"-attitude.
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On February 23 2011 00:41 mTw|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 00:35 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On February 23 2011 00:31 mTw|NarutO wrote:On February 23 2011 00:24 imaROBOT wrote:On February 23 2011 00:22 mTw|NarutO wrote:
How do you apply for the NASL? in the NASL? You must be on a team, must be available to travel to the main event, must be able to play on the NA server. If you meet these requirements, please make a video of yourself answering the 5 pre-season questions, upload the video to youtube and mail the link to apply@nasl.tv (Also include: Name, ID, Team, and Race) . -_- Awesome troll. Just because I don't have the time at work to read through the whole thread there's no reason to reply in such a manner. =.=. Noooo... on nasl.tv, there is an FAQ. Your question, "How do I apply to be in the NASL?" is in it. imaROBOT quoted the exact answer provided by nasl.tv's FAQ, as befits his nature. I'm sorry then. The fact that NASL.tv doesn't show anything for me plus the fact that motbob said no one knows yet made me think he's trolling. Actually nasl.tv just shows the countdown for me :-( Thanks NonY and the others. I'm sorry imaROBOT.
It's okay, robots don't have feelings
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On February 23 2011 00:38 CursedFeanor wrote:
25$ / (3h/night * 5nights/week * 13 weeks) = 13 cents per hour
The 13 weeks thing counted a one week break before the finals. 9 weeks of divisional play, 1 week of playoffs, 1 week for the open tournament, 1 week break, and then the finals week.
Your point may still be valid but your math is off.
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I know why it showed a countdown for me. I was lazy not putting www.
With just nasl.tv it shows a countdown, with www.nasl.tv it shows the website, anyways sorry again and thank you. Now we need to figure out the 5 questions :-)
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On February 23 2011 00:38 NieSwiety wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 00:29 BLinD-RawR wrote:On February 23 2011 00:27 NieSwiety wrote:
Am I the only one who finds nasl.tv website terrible? It looks worse than websites of gold player based teams. I bet sponsors required a good promotion for their, and with so unproffesional site it will be hard to provide the new ones.
My hype is over because if something THAT IMPORTANT is made by unskilled amateurs (i mean web design here), I'm worried about rest of the stuff. oh god,:facepalm:. The website design is fine,a little overdone but totally readable and user friendly. Well. Im an experienced webdesigner. From graphical point of view, design fits more to amateur clan, than one of the biggest esport leagues. It's not about pure hate, or "I COULD DO BETTER" (In fact I could - lol). I just think a good and elastic design would cost like 1/100 of monthly budget (players wouldn't seen the difference in rewards), and it would help with getting sponsors for season IV and so. Right now eSports is seen for many as a wasting of time of immature guys, and unprofesional site just fits to that stereotype. Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 00:30 mav451 wrote:
You are really extrapolating too much from the website design. I agree it's a bit rough, but NASL technically isn't even active yet. I'm sure it'll be updated soon enough. Sure it's not active yet, but they had planty of time to do that good. First impression is important, and my first impression is bad. I know as a graphic designer and public relation manager I see the stuff different, and for regular viewer it's ok, but still...
As a design manager, I agree with you Nie. The website looks more like a fan or interim website, and could use a bit of a buff.
I'm assuming a more flexible, straight-forward website with a robust Content Management System is being developed behind the scenes. Right now, it's hard to imagine how this website could support or be updated with 3 hours of content 5 days a week.
Of course, we're talking about building a studio and sports league from scratch. There's going to be all kinds of growing pains.
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
On February 23 2011 00:58 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 00:38 NieSwiety wrote:On February 23 2011 00:29 BLinD-RawR wrote:On February 23 2011 00:27 NieSwiety wrote:
Am I the only one who finds nasl.tv website terrible? It looks worse than websites of gold player based teams. I bet sponsors required a good promotion for their, and with so unproffesional site it will be hard to provide the new ones.
My hype is over because if something THAT IMPORTANT is made by unskilled amateurs (i mean web design here), I'm worried about rest of the stuff. oh god,:facepalm:. The website design is fine,a little overdone but totally readable and user friendly. Well. Im an experienced webdesigner. From graphical point of view, design fits more to amateur clan, than one of the biggest esport leagues. It's not about pure hate, or "I COULD DO BETTER" (In fact I could - lol). I just think a good and elastic design would cost like 1/100 of monthly budget (players wouldn't seen the difference in rewards), and it would help with getting sponsors for season IV and so. Right now eSports is seen for many as a wasting of time of immature guys, and unprofesional site just fits to that stereotype. On February 23 2011 00:30 mav451 wrote:
You are really extrapolating too much from the website design. I agree it's a bit rough, but NASL technically isn't even active yet. I'm sure it'll be updated soon enough. Sure it's not active yet, but they had planty of time to do that good. First impression is important, and my first impression is bad. I know as a graphic designer and public relation manager I see the stuff different, and for regular viewer it's ok, but still... As a design manager and former graphic designer, I agree with you Nie. The website looks more like a fan or interim website, and could use a bit of a buff. I'm assuming a more flexible, straight-forward website with a robust Content Management System is being developed behind the scenes. Right now, it's hard to imagine how this website could support or be updated with 3 hours of content 5 days a week. Of course, we're talking about building a studio and sports league from scratch. There's going to be all kinds of growing pains.
It's possible that the VODs will be uploaded and monetized through justin.tv.
But of course I do not have any inside information about that... it's just a guess.
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On February 23 2011 00:24 stk01001 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 00:08 imaROBOT wrote:
I liked everything up to the $20-$25 for one season. That would pay for TWO GSL seasons. I really want SC2 to take over North America as anyone, but that is a really high price for such a new, unproven tournament. I don't see them getting as many people to pay.
I know they say they are going to have much more content, but we don't even know what that really means. It could just be some cheesy player interviews for all we know. Until it's a proven high level production tournament such as GSL, don't even think of expecting people to pay that much.
You guys hyped this up really well, and got a whole lot of attention, but that's not enough to justify such a high price. umm you did read the part about the free low quality stream right? also not to sound like a pompous ass, but seriously is $20 such a huge deal? It's the same cost as taking someone out to lunch at friendly's or something.. seriously no offense but if $20 is going to break your bank account then you proably need to stop spending time watching SC2 and get your shit together.. for the amount of content they are offering it seems like a perfectly reasonable price.. plus they are offering a FREE lower quality stream... free.. yet people still complain.. I guess they want high quality streams & content without having to pay anything (or like 5$?).. that'd be great except NASL would be bankrupt after like two seasons and proably need to shutdown.. unfortunately it's not a charity so yes they do need revenue to pay for the content they are providing.. it's this crazy concept called business..
Not to sound like a pompous ass, but is several hours a night watching free LQ streams such a huge deal? Considering streams are probably at least 60% bullshit to 40% actual SC, YES, and if you have that much time on your hands, maybe get your shit together and do something productive with all that time.
The crazy concept called business means allowing it to grow beyond its current fanbase which is basically just these people on TL. They need to make VODs free, or else nobody will care and the only place SC2 will grow is in Korea, where the games are actually good and the price is actually reasonable.
As I mentioned before, the amount of games means jack shit if they are among bad players. It's the same reason nobody cares about the WNBA, the UFL, the MLS, and minor league baseball. They need to make it as accessable as possible to have a chance, and to make it less accessable than games featuring better players is just a god awful business plan.
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Justin.tv is really slow, i waited for a buffer and now it won't play.... are the "clash of the titans" matches going to be posted somewhere else?
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On February 23 2011 00:17 motbob wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 00:14 imaROBOT wrote:
Let me add something to my other statement.
Another huge problem I have with this is that the games, as far as I can tell, are going to be casted from replays. This causes mainly 2 huge problems.
1. The games will ALWAYS be spoiled by anyone that can look at the players match history. If you don't know ANYONE can look at any players match history so expect spoiled results right form the start.
2. When games are casted from replays it is very often that the two casters are out of sync during the game. They always start shouting something exciting when on our screen... nothing is going on.
The only real, exciting, fun games to watch will the be finals. When you have a LAN setting, everything changes. The games just get so much more exciting when you can see the players and knowing you're right there with them watching their every move. It adds pressure and excitement. Fortunately, you are wrong, and all games will be casted live.
I sincerely hope casting the games live is not the case. For this large amount of money, people will cheat, and I'd hate for half of the finals to be mostly filled with cheaters.
It may seem that I am exaggerating the result as these will be named players from top teams - but that actually doesn't matter based on past experience. SK.Insomnia, mTw.Dimaga, AMD.Elky, aAa.Sarens, [9]eVerlast, and many, many more have all given in to temptation at one point to get that extra edge in a tournament. Just because a player is known and beloved by a community is not a solution to possible cheating in the tournament.
Of course, if NASL has become the first to figure out a way to put a delay on the stream, this is moot. Otherwise, I hope they will put tournament integrity first and find some other way to handle these broadcasting problems.
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
On February 23 2011 01:13 [-Bluewolf-] wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 00:17 motbob wrote:On February 23 2011 00:14 imaROBOT wrote:
Let me add something to my other statement.
Another huge problem I have with this is that the games, as far as I can tell, are going to be casted from replays. This causes mainly 2 huge problems.
1. The games will ALWAYS be spoiled by anyone that can look at the players match history. If you don't know ANYONE can look at any players match history so expect spoiled results right form the start.
2. When games are casted from replays it is very often that the two casters are out of sync during the game. They always start shouting something exciting when on our screen... nothing is going on.
The only real, exciting, fun games to watch will the be finals. When you have a LAN setting, everything changes. The games just get so much more exciting when you can see the players and knowing you're right there with them watching their every move. It adds pressure and excitement. Fortunately, you are wrong, and all games will be casted live. I sincerely hope casting the games live is not the case. For this large amount of money, people will cheat, and I'd hate for half of the finals to be mostly filled with cheaters. It may seem that I am exaggerating the result as these will be named players from top teams - but that actually doesn't matter based on past experience. SK.Insomnia, mTw.Dimaga, AMD.Elky, aAa.Sarens, [9]eVerlast, and many, many more have all given in to temptation at one point to get that extra edge in a tournament. Just because a player is known and beloved by a community is not a solution to possible cheating in the tournament. Of course, if NASL has become the first to figure out a way to put a delay on the stream, this is moot. Otherwise, I hope they will put tournament integrity first and find some other way to handle these broadcasting problems.
Justin.tv has a feature that allows you to delay the stream! I saw that in the day9-justin.tv post and thought it was the coolest thing ever. Now there's a fantastic use for it!
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What about maphacking though?
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Wow at anyone complaining about any aspect of this league... Constructive criticism is one thing, but seeing so much bitching and whining about a non-korean sc2 league with over $100k / season prize money is scarily disappointing, didn't think it was possible from such a community really.
Can't wait to see this league develop and watch these matches xD It's Gonna be epic.
For those who don't realise, the prize money is on par with CPL in its hay-day, ESWC and the WCG... Which were/are all spread across multiple games.
Regardless of any possible complaints, this is a massive moment in E-sports and one which could shape the very future of non-South Korean professional gaming.
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
On February 23 2011 01:17 infinity2k9 wrote:
What about maphacking though?
Easy enough to detect with enough scrutiny. 1st person views in replays helps a lot with this.
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On February 23 2011 01:13 [-Bluewolf-] wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 00:17 motbob wrote:On February 23 2011 00:14 imaROBOT wrote:
Let me add something to my other statement.
Another huge problem I have with this is that the games, as far as I can tell, are going to be casted from replays. This causes mainly 2 huge problems.
1. The games will ALWAYS be spoiled by anyone that can look at the players match history. If you don't know ANYONE can look at any players match history so expect spoiled results right form the start.
2. When games are casted from replays it is very often that the two casters are out of sync during the game. They always start shouting something exciting when on our screen... nothing is going on.
The only real, exciting, fun games to watch will the be finals. When you have a LAN setting, everything changes. The games just get so much more exciting when you can see the players and knowing you're right there with them watching their every move. It adds pressure and excitement. Fortunately, you are wrong, and all games will be casted live. I sincerely hope casting the games live is not the case. For this large amount of money, people will cheat, and I'd hate for half of the finals to be mostly filled with cheaters. It may seem that I am exaggerating the result as these will be named players from top teams - but that actually doesn't matter based on past experience. SK.Insomnia, mTw.Dimaga, AMD.Elky, aAa.Sarens, [9]eVerlast, and many, many more have all given in to temptation at one point to get that extra edge in a tournament. Just because a player is known and beloved by a community is not a solution to possible cheating in the tournament. Of course, if NASL has become the first to figure out a way to put a delay on the stream, this is moot. Otherwise, I hope they will put tournament integrity first and find some other way to handle these broadcasting problems.
Well, you were only able to name a bunch of pro players who cheated, because they got caught. I doubt you would risk to get banned from a tournament with such a big prizepool. I realise this might sound a bit naive, since it´s not easy to proof cheating, but think about it for a second. If you get caught cheating in such a tournament, your career is practically over. I really hope it´s live, because replay casting isn´t quite the same.
PS: yeah a delay would be the optimal solution.
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We can't complain about any aspect? Why not? It's a subscription tournament after all which is unproven, and people are worried about many aspects of it already. Why is the prize money so exciting to you? I'd be more excited if it was easier for non-known players to actually be able to compete rather than just be invited. There's a lot of good gamers out there being overlooked all the time. No doubt i'm sure EG players will be all be invited though despite not being the best...
On February 23 2011 01:21 motbob wrote:Easy enough to detect with enough scrutiny. 1st person views in replays helps a lot with this.
Problem is there's been hacks that spoof the camera for ages. Without that, you're just going to be having to guess that people are cheating because of how lucky they get which is a really bad way to do things. With this much money we already know people are willing to use anything to give them an edge. Remember that a maphack can be more than simply a way for players to see into the fog, it also has the possibilities to show up complete statistics of the other player, see the minimap, set it up so it alerts when certain buildings/units are made. A good player can use the hacks very subtly to his advantage and really make it look innocent.
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After a night to digest the NASL.tv announcement, I would like to share some of my thoughts.
1. 70%-80% of the NASL games will be online, while the final 16 will be a LAN event. I do not see why Idra had to leave Korea. He could be playing in the GSL and at the same time compete in NASL. Idra could of had the best of both worlds.
2. Most likely, the Team Liquid guys will be competing in the GSL and playing in the NASL games. They are very lucky that NASL is online.
3. I don't think MLG will be effected too much by NASL. MLG is an offline event where everyone has a chance to meet their favorite players. Because NASL isn't offline for the majority of times, it'll lack the spectators and community feel. Both will do fine in NA
4. Because this is an online event, I don't see team houses developing in North America, yet.
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On February 23 2011 01:16 motbob wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 01:13 [-Bluewolf-] wrote:On February 23 2011 00:17 motbob wrote:On February 23 2011 00:14 imaROBOT wrote:
Let me add something to my other statement.
Another huge problem I have with this is that the games, as far as I can tell, are going to be casted from replays. This causes mainly 2 huge problems.
1. The games will ALWAYS be spoiled by anyone that can look at the players match history. If you don't know ANYONE can look at any players match history so expect spoiled results right form the start.
2. When games are casted from replays it is very often that the two casters are out of sync during the game. They always start shouting something exciting when on our screen... nothing is going on.
The only real, exciting, fun games to watch will the be finals. When you have a LAN setting, everything changes. The games just get so much more exciting when you can see the players and knowing you're right there with them watching their every move. It adds pressure and excitement. Fortunately, you are wrong, and all games will be casted live. I sincerely hope casting the games live is not the case. For this large amount of money, people will cheat, and I'd hate for half of the finals to be mostly filled with cheaters. It may seem that I am exaggerating the result as these will be named players from top teams - but that actually doesn't matter based on past experience. SK.Insomnia, mTw.Dimaga, AMD.Elky, aAa.Sarens, [9]eVerlast, and many, many more have all given in to temptation at one point to get that extra edge in a tournament. Just because a player is known and beloved by a community is not a solution to possible cheating in the tournament. Of course, if NASL has become the first to figure out a way to put a delay on the stream, this is moot. Otherwise, I hope they will put tournament integrity first and find some other way to handle these broadcasting problems. Justin.tv has a feature that allows you to delay the stream! I saw that in the day9-justin.tv post and thought it was the coolest thing ever. Now there's a fantastic use for it!
Ah, didn't know this had come out. Awesome that a streaming provider finally did an implementation of this, and I retract my previous post then obviously.
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Just a note regarding the suggested cap of 5 Koreans:
I currently pay for the Gom stream every season and I prefer to watch the best of the best players - I don't care what nationality they are. Personally, if I didn't have the disposable income for both tickets, I would buy the ticket for the league with the best players - regardless of casters, show quality.
find some way to entice the MVPs, JulyZergs, Revivals, MCs of the Starcraft 2 world.
For instance, how many people watch the western hockey league (more geographically centered and 2nd best players) compared to the National Hockey League (the best in the world)? It's not even close.
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On February 23 2011 01:20 skipgamer wrote:
Wow at anyone complaining about any aspect of this league... Constructive criticism is one thing, but seeing so much bitching and whining about a non-korean sc2 league with over $100k / season prize money is scarily disappointing, didn't think it was possible from such a community really.
Your fanboyism and blind trust is much more annoying than the criticism voiced in this thread. You're basically saying we should cheer for this league no matter what because we've been told it'll be huge and there's a lot of money involved, without knowing too much else.
If anything, this community will be the hub that can make or break the NASL with feedback and legitimate criticism. Yet you are just one of the countless number of users who dismiss criticism as "whining" or "bitching". Way to go.
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On February 23 2011 01:24 infinity2k9 wrote:
We can't complain about any aspect? Why not? It's a subscription tournament after all which is unproven, and people are worried about many aspects of it already. Why is the prize money so exciting to you? I'd be more excited if it was easier for non-known players to actually be able to compete rather than just be invited. There's a lot of good gamers out there being overlooked all the time. No doubt i'm sure EG players will be all be invited though despite not being the best...
Whoosh---
How far over your head exactly did my post go?
The prize money is exciting because IF this is a commercial success (or at the very least breaks even) then the future of E-sports (well, in particular professional Starcraft 2) outside of Korea looks very very bright, and the thought of that easily eclipses any potential problems that might arise from these first few seasons.
So if you are going to say "I'm not going to spend any money on a subscription for it because of THIS or THIS or THIS" then that's ridiculously short sighted, and like I said unexpected and saddening from this community.
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On February 23 2011 01:25 ptbl wrote:
After a night to digest the NASL.tv announcement, I would like to share some of my thoughts.
1. 70%-80% of the NASL games will be online, while the final 16 will be a LAN event. I do not see why Idra had to leave Korea. He could be playing in the GSL and at the same time compete in NASL. Idra could of had the best of both worlds.
2. Most likely, the Team Liquid guys will be competing in the GSL and playing in the NASL games. They are very lucky that NASL is online.
3. I don't think MLG will be effected too much by NASL. MLG is an offline event where everyone has a chance to meet their favorite players. Because NASL isn't offline for the majority of times, it'll lack the spectators and community feel. Both will do fine in NA
4. Because this is an online event, I don't see team houses developing in North America, yet.
i dont think the delay youll get from kor to us is acceptable at that level of play
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On February 23 2011 01:22 Wizdom_SC2Cast wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 01:13 [-Bluewolf-] wrote:On February 23 2011 00:17 motbob wrote:On February 23 2011 00:14 imaROBOT wrote:
Let me add something to my other statement.
Another huge problem I have with this is that the games, as far as I can tell, are going to be casted from replays. This causes mainly 2 huge problems.
1. The games will ALWAYS be spoiled by anyone that can look at the players match history. If you don't know ANYONE can look at any players match history so expect spoiled results right form the start.
2. When games are casted from replays it is very often that the two casters are out of sync during the game. They always start shouting something exciting when on our screen... nothing is going on.
The only real, exciting, fun games to watch will the be finals. When you have a LAN setting, everything changes. The games just get so much more exciting when you can see the players and knowing you're right there with them watching their every move. It adds pressure and excitement. Fortunately, you are wrong, and all games will be casted live. I sincerely hope casting the games live is not the case. For this large amount of money, people will cheat, and I'd hate for half of the finals to be mostly filled with cheaters. It may seem that I am exaggerating the result as these will be named players from top teams - but that actually doesn't matter based on past experience. SK.Insomnia, mTw.Dimaga, AMD.Elky, aAa.Sarens, [9]eVerlast, and many, many more have all given in to temptation at one point to get that extra edge in a tournament. Just because a player is known and beloved by a community is not a solution to possible cheating in the tournament. Of course, if NASL has become the first to figure out a way to put a delay on the stream, this is moot. Otherwise, I hope they will put tournament integrity first and find some other way to handle these broadcasting problems. Well, you were only able to name a bunch of pro players who cheated, because they got caught. I doubt you would risk to get banned from a tournament with such a big prizepool. I realise this might sound a bit naive, since it´s not easy to proof cheating, but think about for a second. If you get caught cheating in such a tournament, your career is practically over. I really hope it´s live, because replay casting isn´t quite the same.
Yes, your point is incredibly naive, and this isn't anything new either. Everyone who has been in this community for a bit longer will tell you: people will risk it and they will give in to the temptation. People from other communities (Halo, CS etc) already expressed their surprise that cheaters/abusers don't get punished hard enough in Starcraft - I mean look at Dimaga and Sarens, they apparently have abused in BW but they are just fine in SC2. Dimaga isn't allowed to participate in TL events, but that isn't a big deal for him as he gets his name out there regardless and he can join enough other events. I personally think it's alright that people get a second chance but other games/communities aren't so forgiving.
Not to boil up this discussion again, but everyone has to realize - people will accept the risk for those amounts of money. Casting from replays or in any kind of delayed fashion is a must in order to make this league as professional as it strives to be.
Apart from that old topic: I can't wait for this to unfold. I think I'll gladly pay for premium, as long as it's (almost) guaranteed lag-free from justin.tv's end. But I have no doubts that they will get their servers etc right for this kind of monster happening
More sleepless nights :D
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I think it is reasonable to be concerned about the quality of the product that is being presented as the NASL.
When you watch the GSL you see a very nicely polished and finished product that is comparable to watching a modern sporting event in terms of production quality.
While NASL has just been born, they have a standard that they need to not only meet but exceed in all aspects, the GSL.
Seeing the role out here is what I saw and a bit of constructive critisism:
The Hype - Well done, leaks intentional or not helped build the suspense
nasl.tv - Moderate, it served its purpose but is not presented in a premier fashion. The small details are what makes the best the best. We are talking about professional e-sports, there is no reason for the primary vehicle to be anything but the best
The show match - Moderate, choosing two well known players that both got Code S is the obvious choice. But it could also bee seen as a mistake. Instead of providing epic matches that were nail biters we got to see what is becoming a clear division of class of players. Causing some concern that the player pool in the west may not be of the same caliber of the GSL. Perhaps choosing two players not currently participating in the GSL could have avoided this comparison. This is a case where hindsight is 20/20
The casting - It is too early to make any final judgments, but there is a lot of room for improvement. I think it is important for a "personality" in control of their mannerisms and facial expressions. I was constantly surprised at how much the casters gave away in body language of their preference and expectations. It made me appreciate more the synergy between Tasteless and Artosis. This takes time and self analysis though to become good. Hopefully we will see improvement and less team bias in future casts, with a good synergy developing that is unique to nasl and not stealing from the already established GSL casting comments.
Production quality - Poor, I only watched the VOD but the casting was so out of sync with the play that it was unbearable to watch. By the time the commented on the action we already watched it happen. I realize that this could be a function of the recording and I hope that is the case. The live stream was probably sync'd properly. This comment only comes again because I would like to see NASL show as a premier league and see them hold themselves to the highest standard. Of course the show match was not an official nasl.tv event but as it was the announcement of the league, again spit and polish would have made a better first impression
The potential - Excelent, the stage is set. The build order is in place. Can the people involved at the core refine it to have no bumps. I think so. They really only have a list of rather minor issues to sort out at this point. They had a good dry run and are getting a lot of feedback. The biggest hurdle was probably seen as the prize pool and with that established it is just a matter of time and getting the right people to make this a premier league. I also believe the money and foreign competition will motivate and elevate the level of play to that of the GSL in time. Perhaps 2-3 seasons.
I plan to support the NASL, but my expectations remain extremely high. So does my confidence that those involved will deliver an exceptional product.
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On February 23 2011 01:00 motbob wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 00:58 Defacer wrote:On February 23 2011 00:38 NieSwiety wrote:On February 23 2011 00:29 BLinD-RawR wrote:On February 23 2011 00:27 NieSwiety wrote:
Am I the only one who finds nasl.tv website terrible? It looks worse than websites of gold player based teams. I bet sponsors required a good promotion for their, and with so unproffesional site it will be hard to provide the new ones.
My hype is over because if something THAT IMPORTANT is made by unskilled amateurs (i mean web design here), I'm worried about rest of the stuff. oh god,:facepalm:. The website design is fine,a little overdone but totally readable and user friendly. Well. Im an experienced webdesigner. From graphical point of view, design fits more to amateur clan, than one of the biggest esport leagues. It's not about pure hate, or "I COULD DO BETTER" (In fact I could - lol). I just think a good and elastic design would cost like 1/100 of monthly budget (players wouldn't seen the difference in rewards), and it would help with getting sponsors for season IV and so. Right now eSports is seen for many as a wasting of time of immature guys, and unprofesional site just fits to that stereotype. On February 23 2011 00:30 mav451 wrote:
You are really extrapolating too much from the website design. I agree it's a bit rough, but NASL technically isn't even active yet. I'm sure it'll be updated soon enough. Sure it's not active yet, but they had planty of time to do that good. First impression is important, and my first impression is bad. I know as a graphic designer and public relation manager I see the stuff different, and for regular viewer it's ok, but still... As a design manager and former graphic designer, I agree with you Nie. The website looks more like a fan or interim website, and could use a bit of a buff. I'm assuming a more flexible, straight-forward website with a robust Content Management System is being developed behind the scenes. Right now, it's hard to imagine how this website could support or be updated with 3 hours of content 5 days a week. Of course, we're talking about building a studio and sports league from scratch. There's going to be all kinds of growing pains. It's possible that the VODs will be uploaded and monetized through justin.tv. But of course I do not have any inside information about that... it's just a guess.
True. But even still, think of all the dynamic content they'll need to host on their own.
Links to VODs
Commenting option on VODs
Player profiles and interviews
Brackets and division rankings
News, updates
Multiply that by 50 players and 15 hours of video a week, and you are generating a lot of information, even if the actual videos are on Justin.tv. That doesn't even include the meat and potatoes, like ordering online, FAQs, rules and regulations etc.
They're obviously trying to take cues from the Starcraft 2 GUI, but there is a reason why the News and Community section of the game redirects you to the Blizzard Website -- the SC2 GUI is actually very inefficient and clunky, and horrible for navigating large amounts of text or information.
Anyway, I don't mean to be a Debbie Downer. I'm sure they're working on improving everything. It's just as an online broadcaster, the website has to be one of the pillars of their business.
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I am looking forward to this. I guess I won't buy a premium ticket, as I simply don't have enough time to get the most out of it, as I already watch the GSL everyday. Next to working, social life and GSL, there is just not enough time to watch everything^^. In any case, I hope it plays out well for everyone and I hope that it gets a big success ofc.
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On February 23 2011 01:31 whoso wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 01:25 ptbl wrote:
After a night to digest the NASL.tv announcement, I would like to share some of my thoughts.
1. 70%-80% of the NASL games will be online, while the final 16 will be a LAN event. I do not see why Idra had to leave Korea. He could be playing in the GSL and at the same time compete in NASL. Idra could of had the best of both worlds.
2. Most likely, the Team Liquid guys will be competing in the GSL and playing in the NASL games. They are very lucky that NASL is online.
3. I don't think MLG will be effected too much by NASL. MLG is an offline event where everyone has a chance to meet their favorite players. Because NASL isn't offline for the majority of times, it'll lack the spectators and community feel. Both will do fine in NA
4. Because this is an online event, I don't see team houses developing in North America, yet. i dont think the delay youll get from kor to us is acceptable at that level of play
So, you expect players like Jinro, MVP, Nada, Boxer, Nestea, Huk, etc to move to the U.S. to participate in an online tournament? We need to be realistic. I doubt NASL.tv will say no to people like Jinro participating in NASL from Korea.
GSL players are participating from Korea in TSL3. I don't see a reason why they can't do it for NASL, too.
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On February 23 2011 01:45 ptbl wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 01:31 whoso wrote:On February 23 2011 01:25 ptbl wrote:
After a night to digest the NASL.tv announcement, I would like to share some of my thoughts.
1. 70%-80% of the NASL games will be online, while the final 16 will be a LAN event. I do not see why Idra had to leave Korea. He could be playing in the GSL and at the same time compete in NASL. Idra could of had the best of both worlds.
2. Most likely, the Team Liquid guys will be competing in the GSL and playing in the NASL games. They are very lucky that NASL is online.
3. I don't think MLG will be effected too much by NASL. MLG is an offline event where everyone has a chance to meet their favorite players. Because NASL isn't offline for the majority of times, it'll lack the spectators and community feel. Both will do fine in NA
4. Because this is an online event, I don't see team houses developing in North America, yet. i dont think the delay youll get from kor to us is acceptable at that level of play So, you expect players like Jinro, MVP, Nada, Boxer, Nestea, Huk, etc to move to the U.S. to participate in an online tournament? We need to be realistic. I doubt NASL.tv will say no to people like Jinro participating in NASL from Korea. GSL players are participating from Korea in TSL3. I don't see a reason why they can't do it for NASL, too.
We'll see
Jinro seemed really upset with the lag issues he had in the clan war between Liquid and Dignitas.
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Awesome: 400k Starleague!
Not so Awesome: It being an invitational =(
I really hope as things move on they drop the invitational concept and move on to something similar of code S/A, the added drama of staying in code S, climbing to code S and vice versa for code A is pure awesome. This sounds like a fat showmatch so far. Getting it to a proper qualiification process will be neccesary for this to grow.
An invitational is fun and all, but nothing the biggest league should be, the lack of competetiveness and fairness in it is such a big drawbacks for me.
And yeah, the 5 players / team is pretty stupid, most teams are looking for at least six top players in thier rooster (2 of each race, duh) for practise purposes so capping it at 6 fucks one guy over.
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On February 23 2011 01:47 hugman wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 01:45 ptbl wrote:On February 23 2011 01:31 whoso wrote:On February 23 2011 01:25 ptbl wrote:
After a night to digest the NASL.tv announcement, I would like to share some of my thoughts.
1. 70%-80% of the NASL games will be online, while the final 16 will be a LAN event. I do not see why Idra had to leave Korea. He could be playing in the GSL and at the same time compete in NASL. Idra could of had the best of both worlds.
2. Most likely, the Team Liquid guys will be competing in the GSL and playing in the NASL games. They are very lucky that NASL is online.
3. I don't think MLG will be effected too much by NASL. MLG is an offline event where everyone has a chance to meet their favorite players. Because NASL isn't offline for the majority of times, it'll lack the spectators and community feel. Both will do fine in NA
4. Because this is an online event, I don't see team houses developing in North America, yet. i dont think the delay youll get from kor to us is acceptable at that level of play So, you expect players like Jinro, MVP, Nada, Boxer, Nestea, Huk, etc to move to the U.S. to participate in an online tournament? We need to be realistic. I doubt NASL.tv will say no to people like Jinro participating in NASL from Korea. GSL players are participating from Korea in TSL3. I don't see a reason why they can't do it for NASL, too. We'll see Jinro seemed really upset with the lag issues he had in the clan war between Liquid and Dignitas.
Well Jinro is participating in TSL3...
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On February 23 2011 01:45 ptbl wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 01:31 whoso wrote:On February 23 2011 01:25 ptbl wrote:
After a night to digest the NASL.tv announcement, I would like to share some of my thoughts.
1. 70%-80% of the NASL games will be online, while the final 16 will be a LAN event. I do not see why Idra had to leave Korea. He could be playing in the GSL and at the same time compete in NASL. Idra could of had the best of both worlds.
2. Most likely, the Team Liquid guys will be competing in the GSL and playing in the NASL games. They are very lucky that NASL is online.
3. I don't think MLG will be effected too much by NASL. MLG is an offline event where everyone has a chance to meet their favorite players. Because NASL isn't offline for the majority of times, it'll lack the spectators and community feel. Both will do fine in NA
4. Because this is an online event, I don't see team houses developing in North America, yet. i dont think the delay youll get from kor to us is acceptable at that level of play So, you expect players like Jinro, MVP, Nada, Boxer, Nestea, Huk, etc to move to the U.S. to participate in an online tournament? We need to be realistic. I doubt NASL.tv will say no to people like Jinro participating in NASL from Korea. GSL players are participating from Korea in TSL3. I don't see a reason why they can't do it for NASL, too.
There will be a lot of delay and it could seriously harm their performance in games. It seems perfectly reasonable for some players to want to come back to the US or perhaps Europe where the delay is less to compete in NASL. They might not all immediately drop GSL and come to NASL, or some might compete in both, but going back to their homes to focus on NASL is perfectly reasonable. Stop exaggerating.
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Uhm.. I'm having troubles finding the "5-pre season questions" that they're talking about that you need to include in the application?
EDIT: Oh nvm seems like they are not released yet?
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On February 22 2011 23:36 cuppatea wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 23:03 MoreFaSho wrote:
I don't understand why so many comments in this thread are about the showmatch when that topic has its own thread. This is a thread about the NASL. As far as the two are related some comments might make sense, but so many comments have absolutely nothing to do with the NASL. NASL and the people behind it have no track record of running major events (which is extremely difficult to do and has put many companies out of business) so the only thing we have to base our opinions off are the showmatch, which from a production point of view was a complete disaster. It just blows my mind that, with weeks to prepare, they would make such a mess of the long awaited, much hyped, grand unveiling of their tournament. It seems to me like they held a $1500 showmatch to announce a $400k tournament and ran then the whole production on a $10 budget, which ultimately reflected poorly on the NASL and cast doubt where it was supposed to generate excitement.
On February 22 2011 23:03 MoreFaSho wrote:
I don't understand why so many comments in this thread are about the showmatch when that topic has its own thread. This is a thread about the NASL. As far as the two are related some comments might make sense, but so many comments have absolutely nothing to do with the NASL.
Saying that they did X and you would prefer they did Y for NASL is one thing. Lots of flaming with I hate X with no connection between X and the NASL is another.
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""We're talking about creating additional content as well like giving them access to replays but then we thought that was kind of silly because it only takes one person to get a replay and then the whole internet has the replay.""
No available replays is BS, sorry. Sell the "show" (games commented, production value, etc) but make the frekin replays available for their education value. I hope Blizzard puts an end to this practice (Gom)
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On February 23 2011 01:52 Sapphire.lux wrote:
""We're talking about creating additional content as well like giving them access to replays but then we thought that was kind of silly because it only takes one person to get a replay and then the whole internet has the replay.""
No available replays is BS, sorry. Sell the "show" (games commented, production value, etc) but make the frekin replays available for their education value. I hope Blizzard puts an end to this practice (Gom)
I would love for replays to be released like a week after. Like week 1 replays are in a pack released on Week 2 or something. But I think they might be putting it as paid content if I remember reading that on the FAQ or something.
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On February 23 2011 01:32 Eeryck wrote:
I think it is reasonable to be concerned about the quality of the product that is being presented as the NASL.
When you watch the GSL you see a very nicely polished and finished product that is comparable to watching a modern sporting event in terms of production quality.
While NASL has just been born, they have a standard that they need to not only meet but exceed in all aspects, the GSL.
Seeing the role out here is what I saw and a bit of constructive critisism:
The Hype - Well done, leaks intentional or not helped build the suspense
nasl.tv - Moderate, it served its purpose but is not presented in a premier fashion. The small details are what makes the best the best. We are talking about professional e-sports, there is no reason for the primary vehicle to be anything but the best
The show match - Moderate, choosing two well known players that both got Code S is the obvious choice. But it could also bee seen as a mistake. Instead of providing epic matches that were nail biters we got to see what is becoming a clear division of class of players. Causing some concern that the player pool in the west may not be of the same caliber of the GSL. Perhaps choosing two players not currently participating in the GSL could have avoided this comparison. This is a case where hindsight is 20/20
The casting - It is too early to make any final judgments, but there is a lot of room for improvement. I think it is important for a "personality" in control of their mannerisms and facial expressions. I was constantly surprised at how much the casters gave away in body language of their preference and expectations. It made me appreciate more the synergy between Tasteless and Artosis. This takes time and self analysis though to become good. Hopefully we will see improvement and less team bias in future casts, with a good synergy developing that is unique to nasl and not stealing from the already established GSL casting comments.
Production quality - Poor, I only watched the VOD but the casting was so out of sync with the play that it was unbearable to watch. By the time the commented on the action we already watched it happen. I realize that this could be a function of the recording and I hope that is the case. The live stream was probably sync'd properly. This comment only comes again because I would like to see NASL show as a premier league and see them hold themselves to the highest standard. Of course the show match was not an official nasl.tv event but as it was the announcement of the league, again spit and polish would have made a better first impression
The potential - Excelent, the stage is set. The build order is in place. Can the people involved at the core refine it to have no bumps. I think so. They really only have a list of rather minor issues to sort out at this point. They had a good dry run and are getting a lot of feedback. The biggest hurdle was probably seen as the prize pool and with that established it is just a matter of time and getting the right people to make this a premier league. I also believe the money and foreign competition will motivate and elevate the level of play to that of the GSL in time. Perhaps 2-3 seasons.
I plan to support the NASL, but my expectations remain extremely high. So does my confidence that those involved will deliver an exceptional product.
Beautiful post. Well written /agree.
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On February 23 2011 01:50 Alou wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 01:45 ptbl wrote:On February 23 2011 01:31 whoso wrote:On February 23 2011 01:25 ptbl wrote:
After a night to digest the NASL.tv announcement, I would like to share some of my thoughts.
1. 70%-80% of the NASL games will be online, while the final 16 will be a LAN event. I do not see why Idra had to leave Korea. He could be playing in the GSL and at the same time compete in NASL. Idra could of had the best of both worlds.
2. Most likely, the Team Liquid guys will be competing in the GSL and playing in the NASL games. They are very lucky that NASL is online.
3. I don't think MLG will be effected too much by NASL. MLG is an offline event where everyone has a chance to meet their favorite players. Because NASL isn't offline for the majority of times, it'll lack the spectators and community feel. Both will do fine in NA
4. Because this is an online event, I don't see team houses developing in North America, yet. i dont think the delay youll get from kor to us is acceptable at that level of play So, you expect players like Jinro, MVP, Nada, Boxer, Nestea, Huk, etc to move to the U.S. to participate in an online tournament? We need to be realistic. I doubt NASL.tv will say no to people like Jinro participating in NASL from Korea. GSL players are participating from Korea in TSL3. I don't see a reason why they can't do it for NASL, too. There will be a lot of delay and it could seriously harm their performance in games. It seems perfectly reasonable for some players to want to come back to the US or perhaps Europe where the delay is less to compete in NASL. They might not all immediately drop GSL and come to NASL, or some might compete in both, but going back to their homes to focus on NASL is perfectly reasonable. Stop exaggerating.
Please explain the exaggeration part. You seem to believe that Jinro won't participate in NASL from Korea. Do you want to make a bet? .
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On February 23 2011 01:52 Sapphire.lux wrote:
""We're talking about creating additional content as well like giving them access to replays but then we thought that was kind of silly because it only takes one person to get a replay and then the whole internet has the replay.""
No available replays is BS, sorry. Sell the "show" (games commented, production value, etc) but make the frekin replays available for their education value. I hope Blizzard puts an end to this practice (Gom)
I think you should be glad top players give away some of their replays. Let alone every show match that is release by them. Its their choice to give it away. for what ? educational value? What about profit value? Hd and Husky makes money from their replays (not tryin to take anything away from those two at all) while the players don't right now.
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On February 23 2011 01:20 skipgamer wrote:
For those who don't realise, the prize money is on par with CPL in its hay-day, ESWC and the WCG... Which were/are all spread across multiple games.
ye and we all know how 2 of these storys ended and exactly for that reason esports history tells us to be somewhat suspicious if there is and extraordinary prize money announcement with yet not much else visible behind it.
maybe if you know cpl, eswc and wcg you remember that aswell:
http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/14938/1-Million-Halo-3-Competition/
especially the lack of any sponsorship at all + the first impressions we all got from webpage, trailer and showmatch makes me a bit worried, but of course i would be the first one signing my season ticket if they can totally convince with their performance in the next month
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On February 23 2011 01:54 Alou wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 01:52 Sapphire.lux wrote:
""We're talking about creating additional content as well like giving them access to replays but then we thought that was kind of silly because it only takes one person to get a replay and then the whole internet has the replay.""
No available replays is BS, sorry. Sell the "show" (games commented, production value, etc) but make the frekin replays available for their education value. I hope Blizzard puts an end to this practice (Gom) I would love for replays to be released like a week after. Like week 1 replays are in a pack released on Week 2 or something. But I think they might be putting it as paid content if I remember reading that on the FAQ or something.
I think it's against the ToS to sell replays. So only possibilities is that they just don't release them or they release them. Selling them would cause a shit storm I think.
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First off let me say this is a great idea, will be fantastic for esports in NA, and props to incontrol for getting this all started.
But I wonder if incontrol keeping it such a secret was the best idea. Sure the hype was nice and whatnot but many people are making valid points in this thread, such constructional criticism could have ironed out some iffy ideas and made this better overall.
My main concern, as has been stated, is how it is ~90% invitational.
It should really be alot more open to allow for more competition and allow newer players to actually have more of a chance to do well and to move up. What i like most about GSL is that it has what is organised like a minor league and a major league. You must move up through the minors to get into the majors. It adds excitement to see players fall out and get into different divisions. I m rather excited to see + Show Spoiler +IMMVP fight for his code S status at the end of this gsl.
The way this is set up seems like the only way to get into it is to prove yourself in many other tournaments to get invited, or to win a single tournament which will no doubt have ridiculously hard lineup.
The current setup for NASL would be fine, and i doubt would see anywhere near as many complaints,
if it were a single huge tournament, but the fact it is deemed a league and will have multiple seasons makes the current setup not favored.
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On February 23 2011 01:55 ptbl wrote:Please explain the exaggeration part. You seem to believe that Jinro won't participate in NASL from Korea. Do you want to make a bet? .
Please point out where I said "jinro won't participate in NASL from Korea." I'm saying its perfectly reasonable for some of the current players in Korea to want to turn their focus away from the GSL and back on to NASL and other tournaments in NA and EU. Let's say HuK loses his next match. He might decide Korea isn't the best for him and he has a better chance succeeding back home. This would be a perfectly reasonable thing for him to do with the NASL now being announced. I'm not saying everyone is going to just pack up from Korea and say "Fuck GSL." I'm saying that the competitions in NA and EU are growing and GSL is starting to look less like that shining tournament on a hill and more of a hindrance in that you can compete in less tournaments globally and arguably miss out on more opportunities than you gain from going to Korea. You said you don't see why IdrA left Korea, I'm saying it's a perfectly reasonable thing for him to do and makes sense. Yea, some of the TL members in Korea will probably compete, some even from Korea. Yea, some Koreans will probably compete as well, I think Incontrol said he's looking at getting around 5 or so in that G4 interview. But you seem to be holding GSL on a mountain when really it's only on a hill now, if even that. That's where I think you are exaggerating.
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On February 23 2011 02:06 Alou wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 01:55 ptbl wrote:Please explain the exaggeration part. You seem to believe that Jinro won't participate in NASL from Korea. Do you want to make a bet? . Please point out where I said "jinro won't participate in NASL from Korea." I'm saying its perfectly reasonable for some of the current players in Korea to want to turn their focus away from the GSL and back on to NASL and other tournaments in NA and EU. Let's say HuK loses his next match. He might decide Korea isn't the best for him and he has a better chance succeeding back home. This would be a perfectly reasonable thing for him to do with the NASL now being announced. I'm not saying everyone is going to just pack up from Korea and say "Fuck GSL." I'm saying that the competitions in NA and EU are growing and GSL is starting to look less like that shining tournament on a hill and more of a hindrance in that you can compete in less tournaments globally and arguably miss out on more opportunities than you gain from going to Korea. You said you don't see why IdrA left Korea, I'm saying it's a perfectly reasonable thing for him to do and makes sense. Yea, some of the TL members in Korea will probably compete, some even from Korea. Yea, some Koreans will probably compete as well, I think Incontrol said he's looking at getting around 5 or so in that G4 interview. But you seem to be holding GSL on a mountain when really it's only on a hill now, if even that. That's where I think you are exaggerating.
You made a post that try to refute a post where I made that Team Liquid members like Jinro will compete in NASL from Korea. As for your Huk argument, I guess you didn't read the foreigner special interview.
Congratulations! This is our first foreigner special interview with you, and it's starting off on a good note. How did you feel after the match?
Felt really good, at worst now I can play in Code A again.
Is it a relief to finally get a GSL broadcast win under your belt?
Of course, especially since now at worst I get to play Code A again next season, but yes huge relief. Hopefully the next matches I won't be so nervous.
Even if Huk fails his next match, it seems Huk will stay because he's assured of a code A spot.
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On February 23 2011 01:54 Alou wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 01:52 Sapphire.lux wrote:
""We're talking about creating additional content as well like giving them access to replays but then we thought that was kind of silly because it only takes one person to get a replay and then the whole internet has the replay.""
No available replays is BS, sorry. Sell the "show" (games commented, production value, etc) but make the frekin replays available for their education value. I hope Blizzard puts an end to this practice (Gom) I would love for replays to be released like a week after. Like week 1 replays are in a pack released on Week 2 or something. But I think they might be putting it as paid content if I remember reading that on the FAQ or something.
Exactly. 1 week, 1 month i don't care. If there is one particular game i want to see the replay of i want the ability to do so.
On February 23 2011 01:57 theBullFrog wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 01:52 Sapphire.lux wrote:
""We're talking about creating additional content as well like giving them access to replays but then we thought that was kind of silly because it only takes one person to get a replay and then the whole internet has the replay.""
No available replays is BS, sorry. Sell the "show" (games commented, production value, etc) but make the frekin replays available for their education value. I hope Blizzard puts an end to this practice (Gom) I think you should be glad top players give away some of their replays. Let alone every show match that is release by them. Its their choice to give it away. for what ? educational value? What about profit value? Hd and Husky makes money from their replays (not tryin to take anything away from those two at all) while the players don't right now.
All replays are the property of Blizzard entertainment, like it or not. Pro players make money by wining games, sponsors, etc.
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So that's just kind of a shame, obviously the dream would be to say “well we're just going to fly out the fifty best players to this remote location where they're going to be taken care of by bikini babes"
lol. incontrol has a good sense of humor while still being serious about what he does, props!
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This is great, will definitely be getting the HQ stream. Hope iNcontroL, Gretorp, and the other casters get help from already established ones (Artosis/Tasteless/Day9 come to mind), to make them even better at what they do. Given the prize pool, there's no doubt that the very best players in the world will be competing in this.
Gogo eSports!
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Germany1756 Posts
Dear Incontrol,
I have to agree with all the whiners and flamers in this thread.
How dare you announce a tournament with a 400.000$ prize pool while doing everything wrong.
How dare you to decide to make a tournament that is not catering to EVERYONES tastes.
I dont understand it. How can you expect us to be satisfied with that and to thank you for you efforts.
A cap of 5 Koreans so there is only a minimal chance that the other players could experience problems is just plain stupid. Koreans are in general superior to anyone else in starcraft and starcraft 2, so why would you try to make it fair to the EU and NA players. They will lose anyways.
How dare you ask for sooo much money for a tournament that is only going to be 9-10 weeks of content. For the same amount of money i could go to the cinema twice. Yes twice.
There is so much to talk about here. We only get a free stream and a free restream at normal hours in europe? I have to pay for the vods? Thats unacceptable, i want everything for free. I want a top notch production with live tv standards on the first day and i want your promise, before you even start streeming, that it will be awesome. And if it is not i want you to pay a fine. Ah yes on the matter of fining players for their behavior. This is ridiculous. So people who are late to their games or dont show up at all should be punished? Players whose internet connection is trash will be punished? That makes no sense at all. They want to participate, but if their internet is crappy and if they dont want to make sure that they are actually able to play in an online tournament, than the other players and the viewers just have to wait.
And most importantly how dare you to expect me to read the info in the op and your interview. I expect you to answer personally to every poster in this thread no matter how many times they ask the same question and it does not matter if it was answered in the interview.
This thread is the funniest thing i have ever read on TL. There are so many people with psychic powers on tl that we could save all the worlds problems. So many people already know the outcome and can forsee how most of the ideas the invertors of this league thought of will fail. Please Incontrol do not give up and keep up your efforts for this project. Dont let the hate that seems to go around on this site get to you. I wish you and the creators of this project all the luck and support you need, because it sounds awesome and is something i have been hoping for in years.
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I really really hope NASL will be successful. To that end, here are the good & bad points with suggestions as I see them right now. I assume that the NASL will have the same "feel" as the show-match, this is feedback to keep the good and improve the bad.
As was stated in a b-net forum - if NASL fails, there will be no SC2 league in NA for years.
1. Stop playing second fiddle to GSL. NASL is badass. It is the most lucrative starcraft league and can attract the best players bar none. To prove this, do not ever use the term "foreigner" - say "North American". Do not refer to other tournaments as "the best (competition/starcraft/scene/etc...)" The GSL is great, but those involved are here to promote NASL not cow-tow to other tournaments. Don't mention other tournamenents or simply call them "other tournaments / leagues"
2. Fix the production issues with the video. The sound was off, the video editting was lacking, put a lighting on Artossis, show the people playing not just the casters, etc.. etc... Sure you have heard that it was amateur - that means there's plenty of room to improve. I am not a producer by any means - please hire a producer, a website designer, an editor / sound operator. Pay them based on the success of NASL so they have skin in the game to get people engaged. Also,.
3. You created great hype - there is a lot of buzz. Keep it up. Have a big kick-off and a big finals. Doesn't have to be big budget, just a big turn-out.
4. For the commentary: have at least one "expert" who is a current/former pro-gamer (won at least $1000 playing SC/SC2) and at least one non-expert - someone who is not in the masters league but has a good personality and style to attract newbies and not annoy the pros.
5 Make heroes not nerds. SC2 winners should be put on a pedastel, not called nerds. Give them something concrete they can wear / have / use if they win. Having the NASL season 1 winner wear his winner's jacket in season 2 gives everyone an emotional tie and a goal to strive for.
6. Play up the "evil idra" angle. It creates controversy and attention.
7. Know what you are going to say. Have a BIG WHITEBOARD just off camera for the match with the contestants names, the maps, who won each game and a few topics to talk about the matchup during the down times. "The 6th game is going to be played on..... on.... some awesome map".
8. Very important - get sponsors. NASL is going to be expensive to run. Money can help improve production quality and increase the prize pool. Hire a salesman on heavy commission to go after one food/beverage, one computer technology, one clothing
9. Make sure the servers don't go down. Buy server-time in a cloud offering such as amazon or if justin.tv is doing it, rake them over the coals until you are 110% sure the live stream will work. Make sure you or justin.tv "macro out" a silly number of servers ready to handle the live-stream.
10. Listen to your fans. Many people have many good ideas, sometimes buried in long winded or juvenille posts.
Best of luck & see you in season 1!
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400k without a single word on the Sponsor.. seriously.. wtf?
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On February 23 2011 02:22 Doso wrote:
400k without a single word on the Sponsor.. seriously.. wtf?
This entire thing is horribly organized.
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Germany1756 Posts
On February 23 2011 02:23 eveo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 02:22 Doso wrote:
400k without a single word on the Sponsor.. seriously.. wtf? This entire thing is horribly organized.
you are absolutely right. it has not even started yet, but it is clear that this is the worst thing that ever happened to esport. [/endsarcasm]
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Congratulations NASL on your first broadcast. What an incredible prize pool!
Work hard, have fun!
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On February 23 2011 02:18 Tachyon wrote:
This is great, will definitely be getting the HQ stream. Hope iNcontroL, Gretorp, and the other casters get help from already established ones (Artosis/Tasteless/Day9 come to mind), to make them even better at what they do. Given the prize pool, there's no doubt that the very best players in the world will be competing in this.
Gogo eSports!
Agree with all of this. I don't think that the very best players will be coming because of the 5 Korean limit thing. Also I didn't see any koreans listed on the player voting list.
I wonder if they would change this is the Korean players would come over to NA to negate lag issues (LAG was cited as the reason for the 5 koream limit)
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This is the biggest thing to ever happen to the western e-sports scene. Shame on those who try to make the iNcontroL look bad without even reading about the NASL.
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The first match isnt until April 5th. Thas like 40 days away. I am STOKED!. i will definitely buy the first season to support it. After that, well i guess that depends on the product.
I hope it works out. Dont complain about something 40+ days out. I mean really...
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It's hard to take that guy's post seriously when he sounds like a typical whiner. Look at the way he responds in his other posts.
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This is going to be amazing to watch and I would def love to go in person and watch the grand finals if that goes over a weekend in an MLG style. Though my only concern right now is the time they will be broadcasting matches during the week. I am hoping they start at 6/7pm PST and the matches end around 10 it would be a lot better for us working folk. I know they are restreaming the matches in the morning for the European scene. Has anyone heard what time the stream will start?
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On February 23 2011 02:42 SigmaoctanusIV wrote:
This is going to be amazing to watch and I would def love to go in person and watch the grand finals if that goes over a weekend in an MLG style. Though my only concern right now is the time they will be broadcasting matches during the week. I am hoping they start at 6/7pm PST and the matches end around 10 it would be a lot better for us working folk. I know they are restreaming the matches in the morning for the European scene. Has anyone heard what time the stream will start?
It was stated in the interview that it would start at 5pm PST.
On February 23 2011 02:36 mav451 wrote:It's hard to take that guy's post seriously when he sounds like a typical whiner. Look at the way he responds in his other posts.
Well all his points are valid. When you hype up something so much, people expect a good product. The showmatch was horrendous to watch because of the video and casters being off sync. The video was very poorly made and there was absolutely no follow-up to the short trailer after the showmatch...
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i really like the last post in it though
http://i.imgur.com/NItva.jpg
pictures say more the 1000 words on what first impression the nasl made yesterday
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On February 23 2011 02:36 mav451 wrote:It's hard to take that guy's post seriously when he sounds like a typical whiner. Look at the way he responds in his other posts.
I think it's on point and the issues called out are valid. Actually, it could have been written by incontrol himself if this was someone else's event. I was truly hoping for this to be as great as it was hyped, but the result does make me worry.
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If the NASL fails, it will not mean the end of western e-sports. There is such a high demand for something like this in the west and just because incontrol is trying to create the "gsl of the west," it doesn't mean it is our only option. If NASL doesn't meet the demands of its audience, a rival league will arise. There is simply too much of a demand for western e-sports to die. I have faith that incontrol will get his shit together and make for a professional presentation. He really needs to hire a team of people with some technical know-how.
Honestly, if you look at the immense resource that is teamliquid, we alone could create something like this. We have writers, technicians, programmers, movie-editors, casters, and we know how to find sponsors. The Starcraft community has the capabilities, but we don't have any leadership or direction to actually put this kind of thing together.
Secretly I am hoping that day9 will start a professional starcraft league and actually get a team of professionals from the community to produce a top-quality product.
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Well, although I was underwhelmed, it can only be a good thing for e-sports. If nothing else, it will make MLG sit up and take notice. Rest assured, they are strategizing about how best to shit on the NASL. It's just like any other business. They just have to do it strategically, so that there is no community backlash.
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guys, If you've been a starcraft player or general e-sports fan for more then a few months, you would know what incontrol has done for this community. He puts a lot into it, and you need to have faith. The league is still over a month away and they have plenty of time to iron out the minor kinks that were involved with the stream. Most of the stuff being mentioned here such as the stream being out of sync etc, are things that could have been fixed game to game if the production crew and such that will be there for the actual league, would have been there yesterday. Yesterdays showmatch also felt rather unofficial and I feel like when the actual league starts up, things will be much more professional. Please realize that having one of our own (incontrol) behind the scenes, taking our feedback, rather then some corporate suit, will make for a better final product. Keep the criticism and ideas positive, so we can get what we want in the end. I have no doubt they are listening to us. I've been waiting for e-sports to go mainstream since I was a young kid, so being 23 now, this makes me very happy. Lets do it the right way.
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well a way to mess it up is if they stick to this awful habit of replay casting. ill never get how this got so big in the us scene
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How can you compare the showmatch yesterday with a professional league?
I'm pretty optimistic for the NASL with such a price pool they will hire professionals to do layout work, studio and so on, this should not be compared with the amateur cast of yesterday.
On February 23 2011 02:57 whoso wrote:well a way to mess it up is if they stick to this awful habit of replay casting. ill never get how this got so big in the us scene
true, but they won't cast replays.
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So this is basically a three month online tournament leading up to a LAN finals in California somewhere?
The LAN event is something I'd be interested in checking out, but the online portion to their league is just going to be another online tournament in a sea of online tournaments as far as I'm concerned.
At this point, if it's not LAN, I'm just not going to be as interested, regardless of the prize and player pools.
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On February 23 2011 02:58 trancey_ wrote:
How can you compare the showmatch yesterday with a professionall league?
I'm pretty optimistic for the NASL with such a price pool they will hire professionals to do layout work, studio and so on, this should not be compared with the amateur cast of yesterday.
yes. this is pretty much what I was saying.
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the post do indeed have valid points about the impression that gosucoaching has made in the past and the showmatch last night, however the topic is wildly misleading as the worst thing that could possibly happen would be that the league or gosucoaching sinks.
I also feel sorry if this is partly sponsored by blizzard , but the initiative is good and if they can really improve their production quality and make it successful then that would be great.
But judging from their past they have a long way to go, and high prize pool's only covers some of their flaws, its not going to translate everything that they do into a masterpiece.
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This is a really awesome idea, and if I had enough money to be able to travel to the main tourney / didnt work a shitty fulltime job that took so much time.. I'd so do this.. Too bad due to this stupid job, I cant play enough to be competitive and dropped off my team too. bleh being an adult sucks.
For anyone who is serious about taking their SC2 gaming to the next level, its a nobrainer. I hope to see a continuation after the 3 tournies are done, maybe by that time I'll have enough cash to take afew months to try my hand at it.
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Eligibility: Anyone can apply (including Koreans), as long as they are on a gaming team (not sure if the team has to meet some set level of sponsorship/notoriety) and they commit to go to the July LAN held in California. Incontrol stated that perhaps there will be a cap on Koreans at five max, but this isn't set in stone. There is a cap on the number of players from each team, set at five. EG and Liquid, in other words, can have no more than five players in the event.
So i had a team question. If i group up 5 sc2 buddys and we go down to KFC and get official sponsership, we qualify? (Live close to L.A.)
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It's a work in progress folks.
I think $25 a season might be steep if they're still working the kinks out, but GSL wasn't exactly a smooth ride either in the first season.
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On February 23 2011 02:03 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 01:54 Alou wrote:On February 23 2011 01:52 Sapphire.lux wrote:
""We're talking about creating additional content as well like giving them access to replays but then we thought that was kind of silly because it only takes one person to get a replay and then the whole internet has the replay.""
No available replays is BS, sorry. Sell the "show" (games commented, production value, etc) but make the frekin replays available for their education value. I hope Blizzard puts an end to this practice (Gom) I would love for replays to be released like a week after. Like week 1 replays are in a pack released on Week 2 or something. But I think they might be putting it as paid content if I remember reading that on the FAQ or something. I think it's against the ToS to sell replays. So only possibilities is that they just don't release them or they release them. Selling them would cause a shit storm I think.
This is true, you are not allowed to sell replays since you don't own them in the first place.
You can't sell what is not yours.
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Ok, so lets pretend the money is from Blizzard:
Poll: Would you rather have seen MLG get that 400k from Blizzard?No (73) 51% Yes (70) 49% 143 total votes Your vote: Would you rather have seen MLG get that 400k from Blizzard? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
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The money would have been put to better use creating "Gosucoaching TSL 4" replacing PokerStrategy as main partner.
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On February 23 2011 03:04 hugman wrote:Ok, so lets pretend the money is from Blizzard: Poll: Would you rather have seen MLG get that 400k from Blizzard?No (73) 51% Yes (70) 49% 143 total votes Your vote: Would you rather have seen MLG get that 400k from Blizzard? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
It's not from Blizzard, it's from a private interest.
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On February 23 2011 02:58 trancey_ wrote:
How can you compare the showmatch yesterday with a professionall league?
I'm pretty optimistic for the NASL with such a price pool they will hire professionals to do layout work, studio and so on, this should not be compared with the amateur cast of yesterday.
but thats the release statement they made themselves! how stupid would it be if they really said to themselves "ok lets do this huge kick-off announcement event tonight like amateurs, we need to rush for it now even if we are not technically ready yet"
this would just mean that they have no clue at all about marketing and stuff..
and they wont hire additional professionals, like incontrol already said in the interview
But it's definitely a grass roots effort in the sense that we're not hiring out, we're not getting crews to come in here. We're definitely getting trained by professionals but I mean it's gonna be run by Andre (Gretorp) and myself, Russ, Duncan, and the varying people surrounding GosuCoaching and our friends that kind of came together and helped put this together.
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On February 22 2011 15:18 ChThoniC wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 15:12 On_Slaught wrote:
Going to be tough having to pay for the HQ passes for 3 leagues now (MLG, GSL, NASL) but I guess you gotta do what you gotta do for the community to continue to move up. GSL: $10 for the best league in the world (players, production, commentators) and access to HD VODs for every match? No problem, a bargain even. MLG: $10 for a weekend of randomly casted games in "HD" (which is still not good quality) and spotty at best production? LOL NASL: $20-25 for ??? Still wait and see...
I think something you're missing here is amount of content. For $10 a month on GSL you get one month of content and VODs. For $10 with MLG you get a weekend of content.
For $20-25 with NASL, you get THREE MONTHS of 5-days-a-week content PLUS live casts from the Finals LAN tournament. Even if it takes the NASL folks a season or two to iron out the production bugs and improve the overall quality of their casts, this is STILL a tremendous bargain.
Plus, I don't have to get up at 3 a.m. PST to watch the matches live.
NO BRAINER!!!
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On February 23 2011 03:04 hugman wrote:Ok, so lets pretend the money is from Blizzard: Poll: Would you rather have seen MLG get that 400k from Blizzard?No (73) 51% Yes (70) 49% 143 total votes Your vote: Would you rather have seen MLG get that 400k from Blizzard? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Uh who cares where the money comes from? I mean, I agree I hope Blizzard is stepping up to financially support the NASL right here on their home terra firma the way they have always done for GSL, but $400,000 is $400,000 is $400,000. Me not care who wrote the check.
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On February 23 2011 03:04 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 02:03 Numy wrote:On February 23 2011 01:54 Alou wrote:On February 23 2011 01:52 Sapphire.lux wrote:
""We're talking about creating additional content as well like giving them access to replays but then we thought that was kind of silly because it only takes one person to get a replay and then the whole internet has the replay.""
No available replays is BS, sorry. Sell the "show" (games commented, production value, etc) but make the frekin replays available for their education value. I hope Blizzard puts an end to this practice (Gom) I would love for replays to be released like a week after. Like week 1 replays are in a pack released on Week 2 or something. But I think they might be putting it as paid content if I remember reading that on the FAQ or something. I think it's against the ToS to sell replays. So only possibilities is that they just don't release them or they release them. Selling them would cause a shit storm I think. This is true, you are not allowed to sell replays since you don't own them in the first place. You can't sell what is not yours.
Uhh pretty sure if you establish tournament licensing from Blizzard that such an agreement would include the right to sell replays. I'm willing to bet the folks at NASL have such an agreement with Blizzard. Think people, think.
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I have faith that the NASL guys realize they need to significantly improve the production quality of the casting and service.
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On February 23 2011 03:08 SC2kenjiro wrote:On February 23 2011 03:04 hugman wrote:Ok, so lets pretend the money is from Blizzard: Poll: Would you rather have seen MLG get that 400k from Blizzard?No (73) 51% Yes (70) 49% 143 total votes Your vote: Would you rather have seen MLG get that 400k from Blizzard? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Ok now wait then. If it just went to MLG that would just be another event like ok cool. But NASL tv is supposed to be something like GSL's second coming in the states. Or did i misinterpret the whole purpose.
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No, I'd rather the bigger prize pool be dedicated to a Star League other than a gaming circuit. I'd rather go towards something that's gonna be on 5 days a week, rather than a weekend every few months.
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I'm glad this will get some of the big names playing for great money,and provide more opportunity for semi pro and amateur players in these lower cash tourneys
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On February 23 2011 03:10 SC2kenjiro wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 03:04 Assirra wrote:On February 23 2011 02:03 Numy wrote:On February 23 2011 01:54 Alou wrote:On February 23 2011 01:52 Sapphire.lux wrote:
""We're talking about creating additional content as well like giving them access to replays but then we thought that was kind of silly because it only takes one person to get a replay and then the whole internet has the replay.""
No available replays is BS, sorry. Sell the "show" (games commented, production value, etc) but make the frekin replays available for their education value. I hope Blizzard puts an end to this practice (Gom) I would love for replays to be released like a week after. Like week 1 replays are in a pack released on Week 2 or something. But I think they might be putting it as paid content if I remember reading that on the FAQ or something. I think it's against the ToS to sell replays. So only possibilities is that they just don't release them or they release them. Selling them would cause a shit storm I think. This is true, you are not allowed to sell replays since you don't own them in the first place. You can't sell what is not yours. Uhh pretty sure if you establish tournament licensing from Blizzard that such an agreement would include the right to sell replays. I'm willing to bet the folks at NASL have such an agreement with Blizzard. Think people, think.
No you are obviously not allowed to sell replays. I could get into this deep but... let's just say Blizzard does not do something like that.
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On February 23 2011 03:04 hugman wrote:Ok, so lets pretend the money is from Blizzard: Poll: Would you rather have seen MLG get that 400k from Blizzard?No (73) 51% Yes (70) 49% 143 total votes Your vote: Would you rather have seen MLG get that 400k from Blizzard? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Okay, now this just being an asshole.
They raised the money. It's their money. They can do what they want with it.
MLG raised another $10 million just recently, didn't they? Nothing's keeping them from raising their prize pool or broadcasting 5 nights a week.
Obviously, NASL's strategy is to invest less in overhead and infrastructure and more in the players and content generation. Not saying that's the best or most optimum strategy, but it's their business.
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On February 23 2011 03:02 Ponyo wrote:Show nested quote + Eligibility: Anyone can apply (including Koreans), as long as they are on a gaming team (not sure if the team has to meet some set level of sponsorship/notoriety) and they commit to go to the July LAN held in California. Incontrol stated that perhaps there will be a cap on Koreans at five max, but this isn't set in stone. There is a cap on the number of players from each team, set at five. EG and Liquid, in other words, can have no more than five players in the event.
So i had a team question. If i group up 5 sc2 buddys and we go down to KFC and get official sponsership, we qualify? (Live close to L.A.)
I bet that'd fly. But having a formally managed and sponsored team isn't the only qualification, you and your buddies have to ACTUALLY BE REALLY REALLY GOOD at SC2.
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On February 23 2011 03:12 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote:
No you are obviously not allowed to sell replays. I could get into this deep but... let's just say Blizzard does not do something like that.
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this because I have some inside information on this that suggests it's acceptable if you are licenced by Blizzard to sell them.
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On February 23 2011 03:12 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 03:10 SC2kenjiro wrote:On February 23 2011 03:04 Assirra wrote:On February 23 2011 02:03 Numy wrote:On February 23 2011 01:54 Alou wrote:On February 23 2011 01:52 Sapphire.lux wrote:
""We're talking about creating additional content as well like giving them access to replays but then we thought that was kind of silly because it only takes one person to get a replay and then the whole internet has the replay.""
No available replays is BS, sorry. Sell the "show" (games commented, production value, etc) but make the frekin replays available for their education value. I hope Blizzard puts an end to this practice (Gom) I would love for replays to be released like a week after. Like week 1 replays are in a pack released on Week 2 or something. But I think they might be putting it as paid content if I remember reading that on the FAQ or something. I think it's against the ToS to sell replays. So only possibilities is that they just don't release them or they release them. Selling them would cause a shit storm I think. This is true, you are not allowed to sell replays since you don't own them in the first place. You can't sell what is not yours. Uhh pretty sure if you establish tournament licensing from Blizzard that such an agreement would include the right to sell replays. I'm willing to bet the folks at NASL have such an agreement with Blizzard. Think people, think. No you are obviously not allowed to sell replays. I could get into this deep but... let's just say Blizzard does not do something like that.
I'm pretty sure the Blizzard Marketplace would enable the sale of replays.
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On February 23 2011 03:17 SC2kenjiro wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 03:02 Ponyo wrote: Eligibility: Anyone can apply (including Koreans), as long as they are on a gaming team (not sure if the team has to meet some set level of sponsorship/notoriety) and they commit to go to the July LAN held in California. Incontrol stated that perhaps there will be a cap on Koreans at five max, but this isn't set in stone. There is a cap on the number of players from each team, set at five. EG and Liquid, in other words, can have no more than five players in the event.
So i had a team question. If i group up 5 sc2 buddys and we go down to KFC and get official sponsership, we qualify? (Live close to L.A.) I bet that'd fly. But having a formally managed and sponsored team isn't the only qualification, you and your buddies have to ACTUALLY BE REALLY REALLY GOOD at SC2.
oh yea fail L
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I'm curious to know why IdrA forfeitted for the GSL March since NASL only starts on April 11th? Any body knows why?
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On February 23 2011 03:18 SC2kenjiro wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 03:12 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote:
No you are obviously not allowed to sell replays. I could get into this deep but... let's just say Blizzard does not do something like that.
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this because I have some inside information on this that suggests it's acceptable if you are licenced by Blizzard to sell them.
I don't see how any inside information about that is relevant. A general knowledge of contracts is enough. Relevant inside information would be content from Blizzard's agreement with the NASL, specifically whether or not Blizzard agreed that NASL can sell replays produced by their event.
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On February 23 2011 03:27 stephiso wrote:
I'm curious to know why IdrA forfeitted for the GSL March since NASL only starts on April 11th? Any body knows why?
He didn't forfeit in the GSL because of a conflict with the NASL. He forfeited because he's leaving Korea.
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On February 23 2011 03:27 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 03:18 SC2kenjiro wrote:On February 23 2011 03:12 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote:
No you are obviously not allowed to sell replays. I could get into this deep but... let's just say Blizzard does not do something like that.
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this because I have some inside information on this that suggests it's acceptable if you are licenced by Blizzard to sell them. I don't see how any inside information about that is relevant. A general knowledge of contracts is enough. Relevant inside information would be content from Blizzard's agreement with the NASL, specifically whether or not Blizzard agreed that NASL can sell replays produced by their event.
Fair enough Tyler, I do not know the details of NASL's contract with Blizzard, but I have seen one other Blizzard contract and it included provisions for selling replays, That was the relevance.
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On February 23 2011 02:33 LoLAdriankat wrote:
This is the biggest thing to ever happen to the western e-sports scene. Shame on those who try to make the iNcontroL look bad without even reading about the NASL.
I think you're underestimating the history of the western e-sports scene just a bit here. We'll have to wait and see how the NASL turns out, but considering it will be (largely) an online event I think it's rather optimistic to think that it will go down as having had a larger impact than, e.g. the CPL, ESL and (yeah, I know) CGS has had.
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Tyler, I can tell you're excited for the NASL. I am, too. Disregarding any production value/casters/blahblahetc.. I think the fact that we're getting live 5x a week pro on pro action is simply amazing.
What are the chances of you guest casting some games? Do it, I believe in you.
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A historic moment in North American E-sports and you trolls have the nerve/ignorance to BM. I really hope you keep your mouths shut, your precisely the problem. I'm utterly disgusted with the 50/50 split this community shows for this tremendous event.
I'm so stoked for this, it's like Christmas. GSL is very stale (but extremely well executed) compared to even MLG "MOTHER SHIP RUSH".
Also I think the team cap is a good idea, I don't care if a #6 team mate of oGs is better than some indie team underdog, the more teams the better. Imagine if the Winter olympics were just "let's take the best 100 hockey players and make them face off against each other" Yeah that would entertaining watching only Russia, Canada, and the US play the best event the olympics has to offer. The cap doesn't effect the best players either, because they'll still win if they're the best. Give your head a shake and realize the big picture, it's to build E-Sports in North America, this rule is needed.
Fun will always trump skill anyways as far as profits are concerned.. Just like how entertainment trumps information on television, ie. Jersey Shore (ugh) makes a lot more money than Discovery Channels "Journey to Africa".
Expect my $25 as soon as I can sign up!
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On February 23 2011 03:22 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 03:12 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote:On February 23 2011 03:10 SC2kenjiro wrote:On February 23 2011 03:04 Assirra wrote:On February 23 2011 02:03 Numy wrote:On February 23 2011 01:54 Alou wrote:On February 23 2011 01:52 Sapphire.lux wrote:
""We're talking about creating additional content as well like giving them access to replays but then we thought that was kind of silly because it only takes one person to get a replay and then the whole internet has the replay.""
No available replays is BS, sorry. Sell the "show" (games commented, production value, etc) but make the frekin replays available for their education value. I hope Blizzard puts an end to this practice (Gom) I would love for replays to be released like a week after. Like week 1 replays are in a pack released on Week 2 or something. But I think they might be putting it as paid content if I remember reading that on the FAQ or something. I think it's against the ToS to sell replays. So only possibilities is that they just don't release them or they release them. Selling them would cause a shit storm I think. This is true, you are not allowed to sell replays since you don't own them in the first place. You can't sell what is not yours. Uhh pretty sure if you establish tournament licensing from Blizzard that such an agreement would include the right to sell replays. I'm willing to bet the folks at NASL have such an agreement with Blizzard. Think people, think. No you are obviously not allowed to sell replays. I could get into this deep but... let's just say Blizzard does not do something like that. I'm pretty sure the Blizzard Marketplace would enable the sale of replays.
How would that work? You share your profit from the 100 replays with the 100 players that you played against? Will every player be required to have a credit card account attached to it's battlnet account? This will never happen.
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On February 23 2011 04:17 Sapphire.lux wrote:
How would that work? You share your profit from the 100 replays with the 100 players that you played against? Will every player be required to have a credit card account attached to it's battlnet account? This will never happen.
Whether or not its practical really isn't the point of that discussion is it?
In any event, I'm looking forward to this a lot and I think I will purchase a season 1 ticket just as a pure show of support for western e-sports. I'm not really expecting to get my money's worth for the first season, or at least am expecting that it won't go as smoothly as I'd want for that money. I'll look at it like an investment though, and worst case scenario, I'm out 25 bucks, which in the grand scheme of things isn't such a huge deal.
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Have they said anything about the map pool for this?
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8748 Posts
On February 23 2011 04:17 Sapphire.lux wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 03:22 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On February 23 2011 03:12 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote:On February 23 2011 03:10 SC2kenjiro wrote:On February 23 2011 03:04 Assirra wrote:On February 23 2011 02:03 Numy wrote:On February 23 2011 01:54 Alou wrote:On February 23 2011 01:52 Sapphire.lux wrote:
""We're talking about creating additional content as well like giving them access to replays but then we thought that was kind of silly because it only takes one person to get a replay and then the whole internet has the replay.""
No available replays is BS, sorry. Sell the "show" (games commented, production value, etc) but make the frekin replays available for their education value. I hope Blizzard puts an end to this practice (Gom) I would love for replays to be released like a week after. Like week 1 replays are in a pack released on Week 2 or something. But I think they might be putting it as paid content if I remember reading that on the FAQ or something. I think it's against the ToS to sell replays. So only possibilities is that they just don't release them or they release them. Selling them would cause a shit storm I think. This is true, you are not allowed to sell replays since you don't own them in the first place. You can't sell what is not yours. Uhh pretty sure if you establish tournament licensing from Blizzard that such an agreement would include the right to sell replays. I'm willing to bet the folks at NASL have such an agreement with Blizzard. Think people, think. No you are obviously not allowed to sell replays. I could get into this deep but... let's just say Blizzard does not do something like that. I'm pretty sure the Blizzard Marketplace would enable the sale of replays. How would that work? You share your profit from the 100 replays with the 100 players that you played against? Will every player be required to have a credit card account attached to it's battlnet account? This will never happen.
“As you can imagine there is an immense number of challenges for us to overcome. We’re trying to deal with those issues." - Browder
But rest assured that you being unable to imagine how something works is not proof of its impossibility.
On February 23 2011 03:58 Gentso wrote:
Tyler, I can tell you're excited for the NASL. I am, too. Disregarding any production value/casters/blahblahetc.. I think the fact that we're getting live 5x a week pro on pro action is simply amazing.
What are the chances of you guest casting some games? Do it, I believe in you.
Thanks for the interest, but probably low chances. I'm not interested in casting in general.
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On February 23 2011 03:07 SC2kenjiro wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 15:18 ChThoniC wrote:On February 22 2011 15:12 On_Slaught wrote:
Going to be tough having to pay for the HQ passes for 3 leagues now (MLG, GSL, NASL) but I guess you gotta do what you gotta do for the community to continue to move up. GSL: $10 for the best league in the world (players, production, commentators) and access to HD VODs for every match? No problem, a bargain even. MLG: $10 for a weekend of randomly casted games in "HD" (which is still not good quality) and spotty at best production? LOL NASL: $20-25 for ??? Still wait and see... I think something you're missing here is amount of content. For $10 a month on GSL you get one month of content and VODs. For $10 with MLG you get a weekend of content. For $20-25 with NASL, you get THREE MONTHS of 5-days-a-week content PLUS live casts from the Finals LAN tournament. Even if it takes the NASL folks a season or two to iron out the production bugs and improve the overall quality of their casts, this is STILL a tremendous bargain. Plus, I don't have to get up at 3 a.m. PST to watch the matches live. NO BRAINER!!!
For the love of God, stop making this argument. Who cares if you get 13 years of content if the players aren't world class. You know where you can get even more content at a cheaper rate? YOUTUBE.
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I know this is my first post here, but I've been a regular reader of TL since SC2 came out and have been following the SC2 eSport scene since HuK won his first MLG event.
I think one thing that need to be taken into consideration is that many of the viewers that the NASL will attract are not the dedicated members of this community. They will be the bronze - silver players (such as myself) who like to watch a Husky/HD video once in a while out of convenience. They don't watch the GSL (or might not even know what it is) because it's not convenient for them to do so due to the time difference, and they don't know who the players are. And although Husky/HD do cast Korean games once in a while, the players they usually cast are the players that are going to be in this league: the HuK's, Dimaga's, TLO's, qxc's, Kiwikaki's, etc. I could tell my brother and his friends (someone who fits into this casual player group) that Boxer and Nada got an invite to the TSL3, and they wouldn't even blink because eSports in NA is too young for that to be significant. However, if I told him that HuK was going against qxc tonight, he would watch in an instant because of the familiarity of it (and also because HuK is Canadian).
I guess the take home message that I'm trying to say is that I believe the NASL is going to succeed not by taking away GSL/GomTV viewer-ship, but rather by having viewers new to eSports jump on board. For that to happen, it needs to be attractive visually and entertaining quickly after the viewer learns the basics of the game. The difference in player skill between the GSL and the NASL won't be (I don't think) as big of a factor as the polish of the commentating/production quality/etc. And if those factors are going to be major ones that draw a crowd of mature and infant gamers alike, I hope that pride of this league being "grassroots" doesn't take away from the final product.
I'll be watching, nevertheless.
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so umm, I wrote in my vote for Nazgul =D
Honestly guys the show match was barely a 'beta' of what's to come. They're going to be located in LA where there's a lot of talent of all levels for the production work. They just have to hire some who knows their stuff. I mean, sometimes even I look at the GSL and go 'ehh, that could look better.'
Looking at how many people tuned into the show match, (at one point there were 20,000 viewers), NASL will get the viewer count, especially since it'll be more established and regular. Just wait and see. Quit acting like people don't know what they're doing ~_~
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On February 23 2011 03:38 SC2kenjiro wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 03:27 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On February 23 2011 03:18 SC2kenjiro wrote:On February 23 2011 03:12 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote:
No you are obviously not allowed to sell replays. I could get into this deep but... let's just say Blizzard does not do something like that.
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this because I have some inside information on this that suggests it's acceptable if you are licenced by Blizzard to sell them. I don't see how any inside information about that is relevant. A general knowledge of contracts is enough. Relevant inside information would be content from Blizzard's agreement with the NASL, specifically whether or not Blizzard agreed that NASL can sell replays produced by their event. Fair enough Tyler, I do not know the details of NASL's contract with Blizzard, but I have seen one other Blizzard contract and it included provisions for selling replays, That was the relevance.
Have you seen a contract for an event over $5000 total?
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On February 23 2011 04:26 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 04:17 Sapphire.lux wrote:On February 23 2011 03:22 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On February 23 2011 03:12 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote:On February 23 2011 03:10 SC2kenjiro wrote:On February 23 2011 03:04 Assirra wrote:On February 23 2011 02:03 Numy wrote:On February 23 2011 01:54 Alou wrote:On February 23 2011 01:52 Sapphire.lux wrote:
""We're talking about creating additional content as well like giving them access to replays but then we thought that was kind of silly because it only takes one person to get a replay and then the whole internet has the replay.""
No available replays is BS, sorry. Sell the "show" (games commented, production value, etc) but make the frekin replays available for their education value. I hope Blizzard puts an end to this practice (Gom) I would love for replays to be released like a week after. Like week 1 replays are in a pack released on Week 2 or something. But I think they might be putting it as paid content if I remember reading that on the FAQ or something. I think it's against the ToS to sell replays. So only possibilities is that they just don't release them or they release them. Selling them would cause a shit storm I think. This is true, you are not allowed to sell replays since you don't own them in the first place. You can't sell what is not yours. Uhh pretty sure if you establish tournament licensing from Blizzard that such an agreement would include the right to sell replays. I'm willing to bet the folks at NASL have such an agreement with Blizzard. Think people, think. No you are obviously not allowed to sell replays. I could get into this deep but... let's just say Blizzard does not do something like that. I'm pretty sure the Blizzard Marketplace would enable the sale of replays. How would that work? You share your profit from the 100 replays with the 100 players that you played against? Will every player be required to have a credit card account attached to it's battlnet account? This will never happen. “As you can imagine there is an immense number of challenges for us to overcome. We’re trying to deal with those issues." - Browder But rest assured that you being unable to imagine how something works is not proof of its impossibility.
I know mate, i read the interview and that is exactly what i am saying. They have massive problems with the custom maps for the market place. The selling replays thing is 10x more "difficult" for the reasons i posted. With some kind of partnership between Blizz and TL for example, maybe there could be a way for selling custom game replays (between TL members). For the ladder though, it is impossible I. M.H.O.
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Can only say that I'm very excited and I wish you all the best in succeeding with this league! Since you are kind enough to rebroadcast for us Europeans I will surely follow this.
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On February 22 2011 11:06 ReachTheSky wrote:
This is a north american starleague.......can't we just keep this to north americans? ><
That would suck though - bar QXC, Huk and IdrA there would be no world-class players. Considering the incredible prize fund, this should be the absolute best of the best in SC2 worldwide - being parochial would simply deman the whole competition. Which is why this five Korean players only crap is...crap (although everything else seems brilliant).
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Certainly will be something I check out. Not sure about spending money on it yet but I tend to want to see a product before I pay for it. So pencil me in for the free stream with the possibility of subscribing based on what I see.
I would hope that as the seasons continue it's a more open tournament. Having to be a part of a sponsored team really takes a lot of of the drama for me as I don't come from a RTS background and the tournaments I'm used to spectating have always been more open. I personally like the drama of some newcomer coming out of nowhere and shaking up the scene. The best players will still qualify in droves but it gives a greater chance for new stories and new rivalries.
As far as barring Korean players beyond a certain limit I understand the decision. This is a new venture trying to break the esports scene open in the United States. Part of that is trying to get homegrown interest--the Korean players can still come later.
In North America the NHL is by far one of the least popular leagues (aside from the MLS) and it has always been due in part to the fact that a great majority of the league is foreign. These players don't resonate with fans as immediately as a kid they watched coming up through the ranks and they also can't do many interviews or share their personalities. When thinking of other sports that are popular in this country it's talent and personalities that win the day and when you're trying to win over a new audience--one not intimately familiar with the sport--personality goes a long way.
I've come to like to watch soccer over the years (foreign soccer mostly) and at first I had no immediate connection to the game. I didn't know the players, didn't know all the rules, nor did I know the histories of the teams and places that were taking part. What I did first gravitate to was some of the personalities of some of the talent.
So going forward I would say consider making the tournament more open. It does no good to create back stories for a bunch of players if the stories remain the same. As the olympics does every time it comes around you create stories around the narratives provided to you by the people who rise to the occasion--otherwise you're creating a false narrative that will feel forced and that will resonate in a different way.
Best of luck!
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So basically you can troll in front of a live audience of 50k people (dunno what the viewer amount will be) for only 250 dollars?
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On February 23 2011 04:17 Sapphire.lux wrote:
How would that work? You share your profit from the 100 replays with the 100 players that you played against? Will every player be required to have a credit card account attached to it's battlnet account? This will never happen.
Wow, what a tool you are. The NASL hasn't even released info on IF they will sell replays, there's just the one interview with iNcontroL. They certainly haven't stated how it would work if they did sell replays, so how can you say it will never happen? Quit the BM and just comment on what we know, not some obscure topic like how replay sales would work, if Blizzard will allow them, and whether or not they'll happen.
I'm going to build my own house next year and you're arguing with me about the merits of signing up for the NHL season package once my cable service is installed. Stay in the now folks.
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I just want to say that I am very excited about this league. This is by far the largest amount of money invested in a StarCraft II related venture in North America to date. Like they said, it isn't going to be perfect the first time, but if you as an individual want to see esports flourish in the U.S., it would be a good idea to purchase a subscription, because if this investment doesn't turn out to be profitable, it will probably be a long time before anyone is willing to put so much into the StarCraft community again...
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i dont know what has been said about this, but please please dont limit the number of koreans!
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i hope everyone decides to buy the season pass or whatever its called. 20 dollars is a small price to pay to support the NASL and get better quality and vods as a good bonus.
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On February 23 2011 05:01 blitzmacht wrote:
I just want to say that I am very excited about this league. This is by far the largest amount of money invested in a StarCraft II related venture in North America to date. Like they said, it isn't going to be perfect the first time, but if you as an individual want to see esports flourish in the U.S., it would be a good idea to purchase a subscription, because if this investment doesn't turn out to be profitable, it will probably be a long time before anyone is willing to put so much into the StarCraft community again...
well i couldn't have said it better. i personally feel that if we all join together by simply purchasing it we can seriously promote the sc2 community and even be able to compete. heck if the first seasons do well enough incontrol even said he would be open to televising it. imagine what they could do with not only income from g4tv.com but then commercials. imagine how many more big named sponsors they could get? it would make such a difference for each person to spend the little extra money.....
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On February 23 2011 00:38 CursedFeanor wrote:
On the price tag
20 bucks is about what you'll pay (if you're very reasonable) for any type of night out with friends. It's about 2 beers in a bar... geez it's NOTHING!
I'm guessing a lot of dudes here have never seen the inside of a bar, but I like your comparison as I find it difficult to balance drinking and laddering, myself. Too bad they don't go well together.
Twenty a season to watch this stuff sounds reasonable to me. The only thing I'm worried about is that with so many matches it's going to be tough to decide which ones to watch. I've got drinking and laddering to do too. And then there's that job...
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I disagree with people that just outright call for support for this due to the large prize pool. If you have 20 bucks to spare without getting the actual production value equivalent for it, you might as well donate it to any of the other well run events that you can watch for free and tell them to add it to their prize pool.
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On February 23 2011 04:59 SC2kenjiro wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 04:17 Sapphire.lux wrote:
How would that work? You share your profit from the 100 replays with the 100 players that you played against? Will every player be required to have a credit card account attached to it's battlnet account? This will never happen.
Wow, what a tool you are. The NASL hasn't even released info on IF they will sell replays, there's just the one interview with iNcontroL. They certainly haven't stated how it would work if they did sell replays, so how can you say it will never happen? Quit the BM and just comment on what we know, not some obscure topic like how replay sales would work, if Blizzard will allow them, and whether or not they'll happen. I'm going to build my own house next year and you're arguing with me about the merits of signing up for the NHL season package once my cable service is installed. Stay in the now folks.
Brother Mack should pray for you,you lost soul.
It was about the future market place.
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I'll definitely be willing to spare 20 bucks for something like this.
On the note of production value, I'd love for them to give the broadcast more of a flashy professional studio-type feel instead of the green screen, more like the gsl/espn aura. It was pretty cool when they had the game screen displaying behind them though.
I'm not worried about the 5-man team limit or the 5 Korean limit. I think it could be really entertaining regardless and I like that they're trying to give all the teams representation.
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Germany1756 Posts
On February 23 2011 05:21 eloist wrote:
I disagree with people that just outright call for support for this due to the large prize pool. If you have 20 bucks to spare without getting the actual production value equivalent for it, you might as well donate it to any of the other well run events that you can watch for free and tell them to add it to their prize pool.
You are absolutly right, but its also wrong to talk about the production value of something that
has not been done yet. We dont know anything. Could be they arent even far enough to do this
production by themselves and Graetorp and Incontrol had to do this in SirScoots basement.
The stream will be free and you can make up your mind after you have seen the actual production.
If it sucks than dont buy it, because supporting the wrong people for the sake of e-sports is bs.
If it is good than spend the money with the knowledge that you will get entertained and did something good for the sc2-scene.
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I'm fine with limiting Korean involvement to encourage the growth of Western Esports. The reason Korea is already pulling away is because they have so many full-time gamers dedicating all of their time to SC2 at the moment. Outside of Korea, there are very few who are able to compete full time or in a team environment like that, and that puts the scene well behind. Having this situation where there is enough $$$ on the line to legitimately make a living increases the likelihood that players will be able to dedicate themselves to the game and that means a vast increase in their own skill level.
Nobody should want the SC2 scene to end up the way the BW scene did, with even the top foreigners being so far from the top Koreans that it feels like a Professional athlete vs high schoolers. I'm fine with sacrificing a little competition now in order to reap the benefits later if it brings stability.
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I don't mean to be negative. I said this before but doesn't the fact that there is zero mention of sponsors worry you a little bit????
The prize money is ridiculously high for zero sponsorship?? Or am I missing something.
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Id pay 20$ for this if the production is good. Im not a fan of replay casting or pre-made casting videos. Live is the way to go imo.
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On February 23 2011 05:32 heaven- wrote:
I don't mean to be negative. I said this before but doesn't the fact that there is zero mention of sponsors worry you a little bit????
The prize money is ridiculously high for zero sponsorship?? Or am I missing something.
Don't worry about it !
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On February 23 2011 05:32 heaven- wrote:
I don't mean to be negative. I said this before but doesn't the fact that there is zero mention of sponsors worry you a little bit????
The prize money is ridiculously high for zero sponsorship?? Or am I missing something.
What they don't tell you is that after the 16 person lan, after the finals when everybody goes out drinking, unless you won there is a good chance you'll wake up in a bathtub full of ice missing your liver.
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Germany1756 Posts
On February 23 2011 05:32 heaven- wrote:
I don't mean to be negative. I said this before but doesn't the fact that there is zero mention of sponsors worry you a little bit????
The prize money is ridiculously high for zero sponsorship?? Or am I missing something.
read the interview. than read it again. and if you still dont understand the informations that were given than write incontrol a message.
why the hell would i be worried that they did not release all the information over 1 month before the start? you dont want to be negative but you are. do you think that eg, fanatic and gosucouching are all just really big jokes? telling people they have the finances for the whole thing secured when they dont? if they were to lie anyone involved could never again show their face anywhere. sc2 might not make it into tv, but a news like that would. they would get sued into oblivion.
damn just be positive ok?
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Starcraft is going to become so popular because of NASL and then when all my friends are like man this is awesome, don't you play Starcraft? And I'll be like hell yeah I do. And then all the girls will want to be in my pants.
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On February 23 2011 05:42 YouGotNothin wrote:
Starcraft is going to become so popular because of NASL and then when all my friends are like man this is awesome, don't you play Starcraft? And I'll be like hell yeah I do. And then all the girls will want to be in my pants.
you had me until girls
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On February 22 2011 18:21 Panicc wrote:
How can anyone with a clear mind think about a livestudio with offline games? Western esport is quite different. We are not playing in one town in one country and do nothing else. I think quite a few progamers or most of them have an other job @cheesemaster. That was just a stupid comment from you...
I totally see where you are coming from but if you are getting the best of the best from north american and europe and they ARE PRO gamers as in that is their career choice, they would come to an offline tournament with such a prize pool, i mean hell look at all the foreigners that have travelled all the way to korea just to try and qualify for the gsl (not many have actually made it) but if it works that people can move to somewhere half way across the world and live in a place where they dont even speak the same language i think its more than feasible that an offline league of gsl's quality would totally work in the united states. I think actually it would be alot more accesible in LA then half way across the world in korea and people still travel there to try and get in the gsl so i dont see how its a stupid comment, its 50 people are you telling me there isnt 50 pro gamers in the west (and some in korea) who arent serious enough about the game to travel to LA to try out this tournament for a season or more?
Im sure alot of those same people would travel all the way to korea should they be invited to code a and that is way more of a commitment. Also i dont want to see as you say " I think quite a few progamers or most of them have an other job " I dont want to see them i want to see the best of the best the progamers that are on a team practice 10 hours a day and are actually serious about the game. Succesful progamers not scrubs whos teams cant support them or they cant support themselves enough to have starcraft as their career choice.
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Germany1756 Posts
On February 23 2011 05:45 vicariouscheese wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 05:42 YouGotNothin wrote:
Starcraft is going to become so popular because of NASL and then when all my friends are like man this is awesome, don't you play Starcraft? And I'll be like hell yeah I do. And then all the girls will want to be in my pants. you had me until girls
but that would be the best marketing strategy for this projekt, dont you think? ^^
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On February 23 2011 05:35 Xeris wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 05:32 heaven- wrote:
I don't mean to be negative. I said this before but doesn't the fact that there is zero mention of sponsors worry you a little bit????
The prize money is ridiculously high for zero sponsorship?? Or am I missing something.
Don't worry about it !
Is there anything you can't do?
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This sounds totally absurd to me. NORTH AMERICAN Star League....yet people want to see Koreans, Europeans, etc. How in the hell is this going to grow North America if you just insert players from around the world?
If it was something like the now deceased Championship Gaming Series, you would actually have people move to America for it, not just play on a NA server and then have to fly in one time just for the finals. Sorry, but I think allowing any foriegners(in regards to anyone outside North America) is stupid.
Maybe if this league eventually becomes more than 90% internet based allow people to relocate to America and play in it, until then, having a big tournament and getting players from all over to play on the NA server is dumb to me. My comparison would be having the WCG Grand Finals in America...but Koreans still win it. That doesn't really put America any better off, it doesn't develop the talent here any more it just provides a platform and money for everyone else to scoop up.
I just don't get the point of calling it North American when it is only on a technicality.
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On February 23 2011 05:47 BlueFlames wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 05:45 vicariouscheese wrote:On February 23 2011 05:42 YouGotNothin wrote:
Starcraft is going to become so popular because of NASL and then when all my friends are like man this is awesome, don't you play Starcraft? And I'll be like hell yeah I do. And then all the girls will want to be in my pants. you had me until girls but that would be the best marketing strategy for this projekt, dont you think? ^^
You have to convince them that you were the winner and got 100k, then I think they'll get in your pants. Not because of starcraft... but I guess you have to start somewhere
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On February 23 2011 05:47 BlueFlames wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 05:45 vicariouscheese wrote:On February 23 2011 05:42 YouGotNothin wrote:
Starcraft is going to become so popular because of NASL and then when all my friends are like man this is awesome, don't you play Starcraft? And I'll be like hell yeah I do. And then all the girls will want to be in my pants. you had me until girls but that would be the best marketing strategy for this projekt, dont you think? ^^
Starcraft Girls for the NASL, yes I can see it now, they'll be like cheerleaders at football games, except hotter because they'll be dressed up like Kerrigan (human Kerrigan not that icky other one).
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Germany1756 Posts
On February 23 2011 05:51 YouGotNothin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 05:47 BlueFlames wrote:On February 23 2011 05:45 vicariouscheese wrote:On February 23 2011 05:42 YouGotNothin wrote:
Starcraft is going to become so popular because of NASL and then when all my friends are like man this is awesome, don't you play Starcraft? And I'll be like hell yeah I do. And then all the girls will want to be in my pants. you had me until girls but that would be the best marketing strategy for this projekt, dont you think? ^^ Starcraft Girls for the NASL, yes I can see it now, they'll be like cheerleaders at football games, except hotter because they'll be dressed up like Kerrigan (human Kerrigan not that icky other one).
Kerrigan and Nova lookalikes dancing the Firebathero dance or Yellows dance anyone? I would pay just to see that happening.^^
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On February 23 2011 02:25 BlueFlames wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 02:23 eveo wrote:On February 23 2011 02:22 Doso wrote:
400k without a single word on the Sponsor.. seriously.. wtf? This entire thing is horribly organized. you are absolutely right. it has not even started yet, but it is clear that this is the worst thing that ever happened to esport. [/endsarcasm]
It's all the little things that matter and once you put them together, you get an idea. Here are a few things I've noticed:
No ingame timer
No health bars
Bad graphics, the website, even if it is just a splash. For something THIS big and not made to look amazing really sucks. At the very least shell out like 2k for a professional designer to at least make your image look good.
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United States5162 Posts
On February 23 2011 05:50 Alizee- wrote:
This sounds totally absurd to me. NORTH AMERICAN Star League....yet people want to see Koreans, Europeans, etc. How in the hell is this going to grow North America if you just insert players from around the world?
If it was something like the now deceased Championship Gaming Series, you would actually have people move to America for it, not just play on a NA server and then have to fly in one time just for the finals. Sorry, but I think allowing any foriegners(in regards to anyone outside North America) is stupid.
Maybe if this league eventually becomes more than 90% internet based allow people to relocate to America and play in it, until then, having a big tournament and getting players from all over to play on the NA server is dumb to me. My comparison would be having the WCG Grand Finals in America...but Koreans still win it. That doesn't really put America any better off, it doesn't develop the talent here any more it just provides a platform and money for everyone else to scoop up.
I just don't get the point of calling it North American when it is only on a technicality.
Seriously, you put in all the effort to complain that anyone is allowed in despite being held in the in the US and being called the NASL? If you want to have a great tournament you need to allow the best players from anywhere. Plus, this isn't like BW where some B-team guy would wipe the floor with 99.9% of Americans. And a tournament like this isn't to develop talent, it's to create interest and buzz around an event that normally attracts very little here. If you really think that not allowing Koreans would be better to do that I think that's pretty crazy.
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[QUOTE]On February 23 2011 05:50 Alizee- wrote:
This sounds totally absurd to me. NORTH AMERICAN Star League....yet people want to see Koreans, Europeans, etc. How in the hell is this going to grow North America if you just insert players from around the world?
If it was something like the now deceased Championship Gaming Series, you would actually have people move to America for it, not just play on a NA server and then have to fly in one time just for the finals. Sorry, but I think allowing any foriegners(in regards to anyone outside North America) is stupid.
Maybe if this league eventually becomes more than 90% internet based allow people to relocate to America and play in it, until then, having a big tournament and getting players from all over to play on the NA server is dumb to me. My comparison would be having the WCG Grand Finals in America...but Koreans still win it. That doesn't really put America any better off, it doesn't develop the talent here any more it just provides a platform and money for everyone else to scoop up.
The point is that it is now practical for Americans to play in a GSL style tournament with GSL style prizes. GSL is extremely practical for Koreans, and now NASL will be extremely practical for Americans.
As far as I know, Koreans will still face the same challenges that Americans face now, which is flying over, finding a place to stay and having a high chance of winning absolutely nothing. The difference essentially is that the NASL has their qualifiers online lessening the likelihood players from all over, not just Korea, will not have to commit anything until they have a semi-realistic chance of winning money. That is how you grow E-Sports.
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What is considered a team?
Like... what are the requirements to be a "team"?
for example, can i get a few of my buddies to say "ya, we are a part of blah-blah-blah, and wish to apply for NASL?"
or is it something like getting a team manager, sponsor, etc?
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On February 23 2011 05:50 Alizee- wrote:
This sounds totally absurd to me. NORTH AMERICAN Star League....yet people want to see Koreans, Europeans, etc. How in the hell is this going to grow North America if you just insert players from around the world?
because it is being played in North america...and on the NA servers.
i personally think it doesn't matter as much who plays as where it is played...sc2 is a spectator sport for most of us, so it will be easier to transition into being able to watch these high level games in person if they are being played in the US.
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Germany1756 Posts
On February 23 2011 06:05 eveo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 02:25 BlueFlames wrote:On February 23 2011 02:23 eveo wrote:On February 23 2011 02:22 Doso wrote:
400k without a single word on the Sponsor.. seriously.. wtf? This entire thing is horribly organized. you are absolutely right. it has not even started yet, but it is clear that this is the worst thing that ever happened to esport. [/endsarcasm] It's all the little things that matter and once you put them together, you get an idea. Here are a few things I've noticed: No ingame timer No health bars Bad graphics, the website, even if it is just a splash. For something THIS big and not made to look amazing really sucks. At the very least shell out like 2k for a professional designer to at least make your image look good.
i dont disagree, but its not the end of the (esports) world like some people want to make it out to be. sure it was a rough start, but that does not say anything about the actual product itself. it only means that incontrol and greatorp dont know what kind of expectations they have to satisfy. They arent the ones that are going to be responsible for the entire production. Incontrol said it himself in the interview. The project was decided and than he was "hired". So if he cant deliver ... he will be replaced. Its that simple. There is a lot on the line for the people who are lending their money. So even though the clash of titans did anger a lot of people. It is in no way an indication of the work of the other parties involved.
I personally am sure that Incontrol will bash a lot of people on sotg today and he will vent like always, but i have no doubt in my mind that he will make sure, that something like clash of titans never happens again and i am sure that the other parties involved make sure it wont happen a third time ...
Note: I am making him responsible for it cause it was his hypebuilding and it was his stream.
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I think as long as they are willing to cooperate with some outside help, they will be fine. This kind of project can't be run by just a few guys with little experience in things like graphic design, livestreaming, organizing tournaments, programming websites, advertising, etc. There are so many people that are willing to contribute their skills to this league.
What they need is a big studio with audience seating, professional-looking graphics and advertising, a team of camera-men, someone to organize and conduct tournaments, someone to ensure that the livestream and vods go through smoothly, competent commentators with genuine personality, and a well organized website. This will require a big team to make sure no disasters occur.
If they got day9 it would be great but I'd prefer if he waited a year or two, or just started up a rival league with higher quality and a competent team. If day9 joined the NASL team and this first season is an epic failure, his reputation will be greatly affected and his future as a commentator will be somewhat compromised.
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I, personally, think this is going to be great for esports in the west. A tournament happening every day, rather than just a weekend every now and then? It'll be great, appealing to a wider audience of viewers.
I, for one, am really looking forward to this.
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On February 23 2011 03:29 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 03:27 stephiso wrote:
I'm curious to know why IdrA forfeitted for the GSL March since NASL only starts on April 11th? Any body knows why?
He didn't forfeit in the GSL because of a conflict with the NASL. He forfeited because he's leaving Korea.
Why doesn't he leave Korea later? NASL only starts on April 11th, that's what I'm asking. He is already qualified in code S anyways, might as well give it a shot (yesterday he was supposed to play)...and go home if he did not make it through
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On February 23 2011 06:14 Keitzer wrote:
What is considered a team?
Like... what are the requirements to be a "team"?
for example, can i get a few of my buddies to say "ya, we are a part of blah-blah-blah, and wish to apply for NASL?"
or is it something like getting a team manager, sponsor, etc?
I'm pretty sure a 'team' needs to have players that have regularly participated in tournaments, online and offline, and obviously shown some sort of good results.
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On February 23 2011 06:18 stephiso wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 03:29 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On February 23 2011 03:27 stephiso wrote:
I'm curious to know why IdrA forfeitted for the GSL March since NASL only starts on April 11th? Any body knows why?
He didn't forfeit in the GSL because of a conflict with the NASL. He forfeited because he's leaving Korea. Why doesn't he leave Korea later? NASL only starts on April 11th, that's what I'm asking. He is already qualified in code S anyways, might as well give it a shot (yesterday he was supposed to play)...and go home if he did not make it through
It's pretty unprofessional not to appear too.
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Big props to Incontrol, Gretorp and the other fellows for venturing down this path. I hope they realise what an immense assignment this is! Best of luck guys, I'm looking forward to this!
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As long as this thing doesn't turn into a CGS gong show, than i'd gladly pay and watch it. But... If it turns into a bright blue/red shirt wearing, fake celebration, my support is out the window. CGS sucked hard.
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20-25$ for a season ? a gsl season cost like 9,99 ?
i think it should be like max 19.99$ then all fine (as long as it includes high quality vods because i wont be able to watch it live)
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Again, the price is for 10 weeks, the gsl is 4 weeks. You guys who complaine do the math.
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Germany1756 Posts
On February 23 2011 06:24 CoR wrote:20-25$ for a season ? a gsl season cost like 9,99 ? i think it should be like max 19.99$ then all fine (as long as it includes high quality vods because i wont be able to watch it live)
there will be a restream for europe. so if you are lucky you could actually watch it live, which means
not live but for free :p
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On February 23 2011 06:20 infinity2k9 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 06:18 stephiso wrote:On February 23 2011 03:29 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On February 23 2011 03:27 stephiso wrote:
I'm curious to know why IdrA forfeitted for the GSL March since NASL only starts on April 11th? Any body knows why?
He didn't forfeit in the GSL because of a conflict with the NASL. He forfeited because he's leaving Korea. Why doesn't he leave Korea later? NASL only starts on April 11th, that's what I'm asking. He is already qualified in code S anyways, might as well give it a shot (yesterday he was supposed to play)...and go home if he did not make it through It's pretty unprofessional not to appear too.
To be fair, he notified GOMtv far in advance that he wasn't going to be participating in this season's GSL. They wanted his spot to remain anyway. Listen to that week's SOTG if you're unclear on the details.
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pretty excited for this league. Love the idea of offline finals and the groupstage plays. I guess they'll keep on announcing more details regarding prize distribution, sponsors, format, confirmed players, etc. This could be quite a hassle as you need to verify you would need to be able to get US Visa.. I know that some players always get screwed over due to visa issues in WCGs. I think Brat_OK is a prime example (forgive me if he has a US Visa..)
The title "North American Star League" is slightly misleading though as it seems it's more like NA-EU starleague with some Koreans. (Basically global).
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On February 23 2011 06:20 infinity2k9 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 06:18 stephiso wrote:On February 23 2011 03:29 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On February 23 2011 03:27 stephiso wrote:
I'm curious to know why IdrA forfeitted for the GSL March since NASL only starts on April 11th? Any body knows why?
He didn't forfeit in the GSL because of a conflict with the NASL. He forfeited because he's leaving Korea. Why doesn't he leave Korea later? NASL only starts on April 11th, that's what I'm asking. He is already qualified in code S anyways, might as well give it a shot (yesterday he was supposed to play)...and go home if he did not make it through It's pretty unprofessional not to appear too.
he told them a while ago that he wasn't participating. He is playing in the IEM World Championship starting on March 1.
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Excited for this!
Also, wow @ number of votes already! TLO has 12k as of now.
This can and should be really awesome!
(please hire graphic designers to up the graphical design (and put in the in-game timer and health bars))
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This is an awesome start to eSports. I would like to see it eventually grow to where you can compete in the qualifiers somewhere close to home and then travel somewhere for the finals.
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I love the fact that this is a live cast!!! It makes the games better (imo), and I like the casters, will tune in to see.
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On February 23 2011 06:18 goldengold wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 06:14 Keitzer wrote:
What is considered a team?
Like... what are the requirements to be a "team"?
for example, can i get a few of my buddies to say "ya, we are a part of blah-blah-blah, and wish to apply for NASL?"
or is it something like getting a team manager, sponsor, etc? I'm pretty sure a 'team' needs to have players that have regularly participated in tournaments, online and offline, and obviously shown some sort of good results.
hmm
i think i'll have to PM iNcontroL, Diggity, Gretorp, etc, to ask "what is a team" because if it's easy to make one, i'm signing up...
because that's the main difference between GSL and NASL (besides money) is that you can't just freely sign up
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On February 23 2011 06:27 aderum wrote:
Again, the price is for 10 weeks, the gsl is 4 weeks. You guys who complaine do the math.
AGAIN, those of us who complain don't give a shit how many games there are, or for how long it goes on. It's about charging to see players that are dog shit compared to Code S participants. There might be many more games, but nobody cares to watch the battle for 6th place in a group stage among players that couldn't qualify for code B in Korea.
If you want an e-sport to grow, this is by far the worst way to go about it. The only people who will pay for this are TL fanboys. Enjoy your tournament, losers! I'm sure you're going to love your $20 investment as you're watching people 1a-click armies into each other.
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On February 22 2011 10:48 Karthane wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 10:46 Brad wrote:On February 22 2011 10:42 Karthane wrote:
I'm still a little baffled. Where the hell are they getting 400,000 dollars?? The owner of Coaching, Russ, he is the mastermind. This is his baby. He partnered with a USC law school graduate named Duncan who's kind of an eSports newbie, he saw a nice business venture and he's excited and learning more about eSports and they backed it and created it. So basically these guys has 400k sitting around to drop on a Starcraft 2 tournament?
Sounds like it to me. Want to open a store? Go to bank, get a loan, hope you don't fuck up and make it back and then some. Replace store with league. Seems kind of overkill considering it's not that hard to get the best players to play in your tournament. Even then it's on an invite basis, right? I guess they want to build up prestige/reputation for their league. This is the prize pool this doesn't even count their own expenses in doing this.
It's an awful lot of content. I have difficulty following GSL, I often just view certain match ups or players up until the semis. I think it would be helpful to focus the attention of the casual viewer with like hightlights or something.
One thing I think would be cool in the future is put the VODs up for download on iTunes or something. I don't want a streaming app for a phone. I don't have or want anything like that. I guess their are issues with piracy if you can DL it like the issue with replays. Perhaps make them available after the seasons over like an archive feature? I dunno. I sure would like an easier way to put SC2 matches on my media player when I'm at the gym just grinding away on a treadmill or something.
On February 23 2011 06:33 stalife wrote:
pretty excited for this league. Love the idea of offline finals and the groupstage plays. I guess they'll keep on announcing more details regarding prize distribution, sponsors, format, confirmed players, etc. This could be quite a hassle as you need to verify you would need to be able to get US Visa.. I know that some players always get screwed over due to visa issues in WCGs. I think Brat_OK is a prime example (forgive me if he has a US Visa..)
The title "North American Star League" is slightly misleading though as it seems it's more like NA-EU starleague with some Koreans. (Basically global).
Kind of. One of the requirements is that it's played on the NA server and finals played in NA.
I mean look at GSL. They call themselves global, but it's difficult to stay out there for non-Koreans especially with the lack of financial security. At least IEM holds local tournaments for each region and then has the top finishers from those go to a big global final. I think e-sports tournaments are wanting to grow too big too fast. Even physical sports don't hold worldwide tournaments that often (or at all) because it's really unfeasible for the players and the organization. Sure, it's online, with 1 live event, but lag is still an issue (as well as cheating). And a lot players go to these events at a loss.
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On February 22 2011 10:32 tok wrote:
I hope it's not another GSL. I will admit I am looking forward to it, mlg has been real boring lately and GSTL was a bit of a snoozefest.
I have one question for you. Did you watch the same GSTL the rest of us did?
On another note this is massive news for e-sports in NA and in general. Thanks for putting all this info together OP.
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I feel like anyone who is complaining about the $20 cost who is either a) still in high school or b) in undergrad and has no income. I totally understand what it's like when you don't have a job, but if you're in these categories why are you even talking about money/the lack of value you're getting for $20?
Anyone who has any actual income and has any spare money isn't going to complain about how $20 every 3 months is breaking the bank and not giving them value for their money. It's extremely inexpensive to support the biggest thing ever in western E-sports.
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On February 23 2011 07:46 PJA wrote:
I feel like anyone who is complaining about the $20 cost who is either a) still in high school or b) in undergrad and has no income. I totally understand what it's like when you don't have a job, but if you're in these categories why are you even talking about money/the lack of value you're getting for $20?
Anyone who has any actual income and has any spare money isn't going to complain about how $20 every 3 months is breaking the bank and not giving them value for their money. It's extremely inexpensive to support the biggest thing ever in western E-sports.
Or C: They are being very frugal with their $ after a worldwide economic recession, call them crazy...
Of course I am buying a NASL ticket, but I understand the concerns, especially after last night's disaster.
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On February 23 2011 06:29 mierin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 06:20 infinity2k9 wrote:On February 23 2011 06:18 stephiso wrote:On February 23 2011 03:29 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On February 23 2011 03:27 stephiso wrote:
I'm curious to know why IdrA forfeitted for the GSL March since NASL only starts on April 11th? Any body knows why?
He didn't forfeit in the GSL because of a conflict with the NASL. He forfeited because he's leaving Korea. Why doesn't he leave Korea later? NASL only starts on April 11th, that's what I'm asking. He is already qualified in code S anyways, might as well give it a shot (yesterday he was supposed to play)...and go home if he did not make it through It's pretty unprofessional not to appear too. To be fair, he notified GOMtv far in advance that he wasn't going to be participating in this season's GSL. They wanted his spot to remain anyway. Listen to that week's SOTG if you're unclear on the details.
And they just didn't fill the slot? Weird.
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On February 23 2011 07:49 iCCup.Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 07:46 PJA wrote:
I feel like anyone who is complaining about the $20 cost who is either a) still in high school or b) in undergrad and has no income. I totally understand what it's like when you don't have a job, but if you're in these categories why are you even talking about money/the lack of value you're getting for $20?
Anyone who has any actual income and has any spare money isn't going to complain about how $20 every 3 months is breaking the bank and not giving them value for their money. It's extremely inexpensive to support the biggest thing ever in western E-sports. Or C: They are being very frugal with their $ after a worldwide economic recession, call them crazy... Of course I am buying a NASL ticket, but I understand the concerns, especially after last night's disaster.
Okay, so eat a peanut butter sandwich for lunch for 2 weeks instead of buying deli meat. Problem solved. If people claim to support e-sports but are crying about $20 every 3 months they're being facetious about their support at best.
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On February 23 2011 07:52 PJA wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 07:49 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On February 23 2011 07:46 PJA wrote:
I feel like anyone who is complaining about the $20 cost who is either a) still in high school or b) in undergrad and has no income. I totally understand what it's like when you don't have a job, but if you're in these categories why are you even talking about money/the lack of value you're getting for $20?
Anyone who has any actual income and has any spare money isn't going to complain about how $20 every 3 months is breaking the bank and not giving them value for their money. It's extremely inexpensive to support the biggest thing ever in western E-sports. Or C: They are being very frugal with their $ after a worldwide economic recession, call them crazy... Of course I am buying a NASL ticket, but I understand the concerns, especially after last night's disaster. Okay, so eat a peanut butter sandwich for lunch for 2 weeks instead of buying deli meat. Problem solved. If people claim to support e-sports but are crying about $20 every 3 months they're being facetious about their support at best.
I know if it came between supporting esports by buying premium tickets, or changing my lifestyle, esports would be gone SO fast as would be the same with most people. People should not just buy shit because they are "supporting esports" but because it's something they want and they feel it is worth the $.
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On February 23 2011 07:49 iCCup.Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 07:46 PJA wrote:
I feel like anyone who is complaining about the $20 cost who is either a) still in high school or b) in undergrad and has no income. I totally understand what it's like when you don't have a job, but if you're in these categories why are you even talking about money/the lack of value you're getting for $20?
Anyone who has any actual income and has any spare money isn't going to complain about how $20 every 3 months is breaking the bank and not giving them value for their money. It's extremely inexpensive to support the biggest thing ever in western E-sports. Or C: They are being very frugal with their $ after a worldwide economic recession, call them crazy... Of course I am buying a NASL ticket, but I understand the concerns, especially after last night's disaster.
I understand the concerns after last night - obviously that cast was not up to pay-for-it quality standards. That, though, is easily dealt with by the free stream. I for one will certainly be watching that once or twice before paying for anything to see what the quality really is.
I don't understand the people complaining that $20 is too high even if it's done well. It's extremely low for the amount of content. I assume some of these people sometimes go to a movie...
I might not pay for it, but only because the free stream is better as an alternative than GOM's because of the more convenient time. The idea that $20 is a ripoff is just insane.
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On February 23 2011 07:52 PJA wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 07:49 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On February 23 2011 07:46 PJA wrote:
I feel like anyone who is complaining about the $20 cost who is either a) still in high school or b) in undergrad and has no income. I totally understand what it's like when you don't have a job, but if you're in these categories why are you even talking about money/the lack of value you're getting for $20?
Anyone who has any actual income and has any spare money isn't going to complain about how $20 every 3 months is breaking the bank and not giving them value for their money. It's extremely inexpensive to support the biggest thing ever in western E-sports. Or C: They are being very frugal with their $ after a worldwide economic recession, call them crazy... Of course I am buying a NASL ticket, but I understand the concerns, especially after last night's disaster. Okay, so eat a peanut butter sandwich for lunch for 2 weeks instead of buying deli meat. Problem solved. If people claim to support e-sports but are crying about $20 every 3 months they're being facetious about their support at best.
The thing is, surely the goal of this is to make SC2 in NA bigger, but with a subscription it's really only going to appeal to people already interested in eSports. You can say it's only $20 but that's a lot to most people to simply watch people play videogames. Bit different from BW which was people just changing to a channel on TV or having the ability to go to the venue live for free.
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On February 23 2011 07:57 aristarchus wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 07:49 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On February 23 2011 07:46 PJA wrote:
I feel like anyone who is complaining about the $20 cost who is either a) still in high school or b) in undergrad and has no income. I totally understand what it's like when you don't have a job, but if you're in these categories why are you even talking about money/the lack of value you're getting for $20?
Anyone who has any actual income and has any spare money isn't going to complain about how $20 every 3 months is breaking the bank and not giving them value for their money. It's extremely inexpensive to support the biggest thing ever in western E-sports. Or C: They are being very frugal with their $ after a worldwide economic recession, call them crazy... Of course I am buying a NASL ticket, but I understand the concerns, especially after last night's disaster. I understand the concerns after last night - obviously that cast was not up to pay-for-it quality standards. That, though, is easily dealt with by the free stream. I for one will certainly be watching that once or twice before paying for anything to see what the quality really is. I don't understand the people complaining that $20 is too high even if it's done well. It's extremely low for the amount of content. I assume some of these people sometimes go to a movie... I might not pay for it, but only because the free stream is better as an alternative than GOM's because of the more convenient time. The idea that $20 is a ripoff is just insane.
It's for sure NOT a rip off, but for people on a limited budget (ie: most people) $20 is not somethign they can just throw out, also you have to consider that this is not the only pay SC2 stream.
Now if you get every paid stream for 2011 you will pay:
9 Months of GSL with ads: $90
9 Months of NASL: $60
6 MLG Streams: $60
6 or so IEM streams: $60
So you are talking $270 to support all of these streams. That's actually a lot of $ for most people, even if the content/$ ratio is very high. I know I only will end up buying GOM, MLG, and NASL streams, should I also buy the IEM streams to "support espots" even though I have little interest in most of the IEM's or just catch the free stream?
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On February 23 2011 07:52 PJA wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 07:49 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On February 23 2011 07:46 PJA wrote:
I feel like anyone who is complaining about the $20 cost who is either a) still in high school or b) in undergrad and has no income. I totally understand what it's like when you don't have a job, but if you're in these categories why are you even talking about money/the lack of value you're getting for $20?
Anyone who has any actual income and has any spare money isn't going to complain about how $20 every 3 months is breaking the bank and not giving them value for their money. It's extremely inexpensive to support the biggest thing ever in western E-sports. Or C: They are being very frugal with their $ after a worldwide economic recession, call them crazy... Of course I am buying a NASL ticket, but I understand the concerns, especially after last night's disaster. Okay, so eat a peanut butter sandwich for lunch for 2 weeks instead of buying deli meat. Problem solved. If people claim to support e-sports but are crying about $20 every 3 months they're being facetious about their support at best.
see, thats the thing that pisses me off.
Why do ppl always compare it with food?
Lets say i use those 20euro/dollar on buying a game i will play for more then 100hour.
You can even get more with stuff like steam deals.
The thing is, we don't know how good it will be hence why quite a few ppl will prolly watch the first season or month for free and THEN buy.
To start complaining about ppl not wanting to use money on something we don't know if its worth only screams biassed as hell in my ears.
Note, i am not saying it will not be worth it, but some ppl are cautious.
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Another valid reason for not buying the ticket (probably will, but w/e) is that your internet can't support the higher quality stream, as may or may not be true for me. If SQ is 480p, that's the max my web can handle, so no reason to get premium.
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I'm super excited! The prize pool is sure to attract any player they invite. Geoff has shown he can cast very well, and Gretorp works really well with him. I like making the players accountable. Being late to games seems like the norm right now. It seems like a ton of thought went into this league. I'm really looking forward to it! Although with all the games being broadcast, I will have to be pickier about what I watch.
I do worry about Justin.tv bandwidth though. I have never not had problems with HD streaming sites even with my 20 mbps cable connection and a beastly computer. I even missed out on the Blizzcon HD stream, because they couldn't handle the load. I hope the A/V syncing issue is resolved soon too. The showmatch, the last few EG Master's Cups, and the recent Kings of Tin shows all had it.
I do believe they are taking the NASL seriously as there is a lot of money, passion, and hair whipping being invested, so I have faith. Good luck guys! I'll be tuning in!
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On February 23 2011 08:19 Froadac wrote:
Another valid reason for not buying the ticket (probably will, but w/e) is that your internet can't support the higher quality stream, as may or may not be true for me. If SQ is 480p, that's the max my web can handle, so no reason to get premium.
Wow good point I did not think about this, I can't watch Justin in anything over 480p and I'm in the US with a 20 meg download internet. Hmhmhmhmhm. might not be worth my $20 if I can't use the HQ and I won't need the VOD's. Move me from the "buying a ticket for sure" to the "maybe if i can get Justin to work I'll buy it" category with that.
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It's been brought up a number of times in the thread already, but I as well have to voice my dislike of the 5 players per team rule.
It literally means NASL will select worse players over better players, which is a weird decision to make considering their ambitions and money that's put into it.
Jinro, Huk, Tyler, Ret, TLO, Haypro - assuming for the sake of argument that they would all want to participate, remove just one name from the list and you will have a worse tournament lineup than you would have otherwise. Why?
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On February 23 2011 08:02 iCCup.Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 07:57 aristarchus wrote:On February 23 2011 07:49 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On February 23 2011 07:46 PJA wrote:
I feel like anyone who is complaining about the $20 cost who is either a) still in high school or b) in undergrad and has no income. I totally understand what it's like when you don't have a job, but if you're in these categories why are you even talking about money/the lack of value you're getting for $20?
Anyone who has any actual income and has any spare money isn't going to complain about how $20 every 3 months is breaking the bank and not giving them value for their money. It's extremely inexpensive to support the biggest thing ever in western E-sports. Or C: They are being very frugal with their $ after a worldwide economic recession, call them crazy... Of course I am buying a NASL ticket, but I understand the concerns, especially after last night's disaster. I understand the concerns after last night - obviously that cast was not up to pay-for-it quality standards. That, though, is easily dealt with by the free stream. I for one will certainly be watching that once or twice before paying for anything to see what the quality really is. I don't understand the people complaining that $20 is too high even if it's done well. It's extremely low for the amount of content. I assume some of these people sometimes go to a movie... I might not pay for it, but only because the free stream is better as an alternative than GOM's because of the more convenient time. The idea that $20 is a ripoff is just insane. It's for sure NOT a rip off, but for people on a limited budget (ie: most people) $20 is not somethign they can just throw out, also you have to consider that this is not the only pay SC2 stream. Now if you get every paid stream for 2011 you will pay: 9 Months of GSL with ads: $90 9 Months of NASL: $60 6 MLG Streams: $60 6 or so IEM streams: $60 So you are talking $270 to support all of these streams. That's actually a lot of $ for most people, even if the content/$ ratio is very high. I know I only will end up buying GOM, MLG, and NASL streams, should I also buy the IEM streams to "support espots" even though I have little interest in most of the IEM's or just catch the free stream?
There is ESLTV Premium for 30€/year too ~ (+additional fees for special events like the upcoming CEBIT tournaments)
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On February 23 2011 08:18 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 07:52 PJA wrote:On February 23 2011 07:49 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On February 23 2011 07:46 PJA wrote:
I feel like anyone who is complaining about the $20 cost who is either a) still in high school or b) in undergrad and has no income. I totally understand what it's like when you don't have a job, but if you're in these categories why are you even talking about money/the lack of value you're getting for $20?
Anyone who has any actual income and has any spare money isn't going to complain about how $20 every 3 months is breaking the bank and not giving them value for their money. It's extremely inexpensive to support the biggest thing ever in western E-sports. Or C: They are being very frugal with their $ after a worldwide economic recession, call them crazy... Of course I am buying a NASL ticket, but I understand the concerns, especially after last night's disaster. Okay, so eat a peanut butter sandwich for lunch for 2 weeks instead of buying deli meat. Problem solved. If people claim to support e-sports but are crying about $20 every 3 months they're being facetious about their support at best. see, thats the thing that pisses me off. Why do ppl always compare it with food? Lets say i use those 20euro/dollar on buying a game i will play for more then 100hour. You can even get more with stuff like steam deals. The thing is, we don't know how good it will be hence why quite a few ppl will prolly watch the first season or month for free and THEN buy. To start complaining about ppl not wanting to use money on something we don't know if its worth only screams biassed as hell in my ears. Note, i am not saying it will not be worth it, but some ppl are cautious.
I'm not comparing it with food per se. I'm saying that there are probably at least 10-20 ways for someone to cut $20 over 3 months out of their budget without it being a big deal. I was merely giving one example. If you really value your lunch so much, you can just not go to a bar once. That will probably cover 3-6 months of this by itself.
Clearly there are plenty of reasons not to pay for the stream, and I'm not saying everyone should go buy the stream, as you seem to think I am saying. I'm just saying that people complaining about $20 are being ridiculous.
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On February 23 2011 08:22 iCCup.Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 08:19 Froadac wrote:
Another valid reason for not buying the ticket (probably will, but w/e) is that your internet can't support the higher quality stream, as may or may not be true for me. If SQ is 480p, that's the max my web can handle, so no reason to get premium. Wow good point I did not think about this, I can't watch Justin in anything over 480p and I'm in the US with a 20 meg download internet. Hmhmhmhmhm. might not be worth my $20 if I can't use the HQ and I won't need the VOD's. Move me from the "buying a ticket for sure" to the "maybe if i can get Justin to work I'll buy it" category with that.
what?
i can view 720p in NA just fine, and i have less than that in DL (i think it's around 15mb)
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On February 23 2011 08:31 Keitzer wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 08:22 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On February 23 2011 08:19 Froadac wrote:
Another valid reason for not buying the ticket (probably will, but w/e) is that your internet can't support the higher quality stream, as may or may not be true for me. If SQ is 480p, that's the max my web can handle, so no reason to get premium. Wow good point I did not think about this, I can't watch Justin in anything over 480p and I'm in the US with a 20 meg download internet. Hmhmhmhmhm. might not be worth my $20 if I can't use the HQ and I won't need the VOD's. Move me from the "buying a ticket for sure" to the "maybe if i can get Justin to work I'll buy it" category with that. what? i can view 720p in NA just fine, and i have less than that in DL (i think it's around 15mb)
I cannot and almost never have been able to. Yet I can watch streams on Livestream, Ustream, GOM, and own3d with no issues. But Justin just freezes after about 2 seconds on anything higher then 480p. I had to watch one of the GCPL's in 240p ffs.
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On February 23 2011 08:25 Desti wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 08:02 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On February 23 2011 07:57 aristarchus wrote:On February 23 2011 07:49 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On February 23 2011 07:46 PJA wrote:
I feel like anyone who is complaining about the $20 cost who is either a) still in high school or b) in undergrad and has no income. I totally understand what it's like when you don't have a job, but if you're in these categories why are you even talking about money/the lack of value you're getting for $20?
Anyone who has any actual income and has any spare money isn't going to complain about how $20 every 3 months is breaking the bank and not giving them value for their money. It's extremely inexpensive to support the biggest thing ever in western E-sports. Or C: They are being very frugal with their $ after a worldwide economic recession, call them crazy... Of course I am buying a NASL ticket, but I understand the concerns, especially after last night's disaster. I understand the concerns after last night - obviously that cast was not up to pay-for-it quality standards. That, though, is easily dealt with by the free stream. I for one will certainly be watching that once or twice before paying for anything to see what the quality really is. I don't understand the people complaining that $20 is too high even if it's done well. It's extremely low for the amount of content. I assume some of these people sometimes go to a movie... I might not pay for it, but only because the free stream is better as an alternative than GOM's because of the more convenient time. The idea that $20 is a ripoff is just insane. It's for sure NOT a rip off, but for people on a limited budget (ie: most people) $20 is not somethign they can just throw out, also you have to consider that this is not the only pay SC2 stream. Now if you get every paid stream for 2011 you will pay: 9 Months of GSL with ads: $90 9 Months of NASL: $60 6 MLG Streams: $60 6 or so IEM streams: $60 So you are talking $270 to support all of these streams. That's actually a lot of $ for most people, even if the content/$ ratio is very high. I know I only will end up buying GOM, MLG, and NASL streams, should I also buy the IEM streams to "support espots" even though I have little interest in most of the IEM's or just catch the free stream? There is ESLTV Premium for 30€/year too ~ (+additional fees for special events like the upcoming CEBIT tournaments)
There are no additional fees. Subscribers already have access to the premium stream. They do not have to buy the event package.
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I have the same problem with Justin. Freezes constantly even though I have 30 mb dl. No problem with other streams.
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On February 23 2011 08:31 Keitzer wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 08:22 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On February 23 2011 08:19 Froadac wrote:
Another valid reason for not buying the ticket (probably will, but w/e) is that your internet can't support the higher quality stream, as may or may not be true for me. If SQ is 480p, that's the max my web can handle, so no reason to get premium. Wow good point I did not think about this, I can't watch Justin in anything over 480p and I'm in the US with a 20 meg download internet. Hmhmhmhmhm. might not be worth my $20 if I can't use the HQ and I won't need the VOD's. Move me from the "buying a ticket for sure" to the "maybe if i can get Justin to work I'll buy it" category with that. what? i can view 720p in NA just fine, and i have less than that in DL (i think it's around 15mb)
Same, I can always watch the HQ from NA without problems.
I watch the VoDs cause staying up until 5am every night doesn't fit my schedule so maybe with the stream its different? idk.
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On February 23 2011 08:33 iCCup.Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 08:31 Keitzer wrote:On February 23 2011 08:22 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On February 23 2011 08:19 Froadac wrote:
Another valid reason for not buying the ticket (probably will, but w/e) is that your internet can't support the higher quality stream, as may or may not be true for me. If SQ is 480p, that's the max my web can handle, so no reason to get premium. Wow good point I did not think about this, I can't watch Justin in anything over 480p and I'm in the US with a 20 meg download internet. Hmhmhmhmhm. might not be worth my $20 if I can't use the HQ and I won't need the VOD's. Move me from the "buying a ticket for sure" to the "maybe if i can get Justin to work I'll buy it" category with that. what? i can view 720p in NA just fine, and i have less than that in DL (i think it's around 15mb) I cannot and almost never have been able to. Yet I can watch streams on Livestream, Ustream, GOM, and own3d with no issues. But Justin just freezes after about 2 seconds on anything higher then 480p. I had to watch one of the GCPL's in 240p ffs.
It's probably an issue with your computer. I can watch 1080p streams perfectly on my main rig while my netbook can't handle anything higher than 360p, on the same internet connection.
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On February 23 2011 08:24 Talin wrote:
It's been brought up a number of times in the thread already, but I as well have to voice my dislike of the 5 players per team rule.
It literally means NASL will select worse players over better players, which is a weird decision to make considering their ambitions and money that's put into it.
Jinro, Huk, Tyler, Ret, TLO, Haypro - assuming for the sake of argument that they would all want to participate, remove just one name from the list and you will have a worse tournament lineup than you would have otherwise. Why?
Again, that's how they do it in Halo
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On February 23 2011 08:59 LoLAdriankat wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 08:33 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On February 23 2011 08:31 Keitzer wrote:On February 23 2011 08:22 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On February 23 2011 08:19 Froadac wrote:
Another valid reason for not buying the ticket (probably will, but w/e) is that your internet can't support the higher quality stream, as may or may not be true for me. If SQ is 480p, that's the max my web can handle, so no reason to get premium. Wow good point I did not think about this, I can't watch Justin in anything over 480p and I'm in the US with a 20 meg download internet. Hmhmhmhmhm. might not be worth my $20 if I can't use the HQ and I won't need the VOD's. Move me from the "buying a ticket for sure" to the "maybe if i can get Justin to work I'll buy it" category with that. what? i can view 720p in NA just fine, and i have less than that in DL (i think it's around 15mb) I cannot and almost never have been able to. Yet I can watch streams on Livestream, Ustream, GOM, and own3d with no issues. But Justin just freezes after about 2 seconds on anything higher then 480p. I had to watch one of the GCPL's in 240p ffs. It's probably an issue with your computer. I can watch 1080p streams perfectly on my main rig while my netbook can't handle anything higher than 360p, on the same internet connection.
But I somehow can run 720p or higher on every other site I have ever been to? Ustream. own3d, GOM, MLG, Cnet, Gamespot, IGN, Youtube, etc all work great on the highest settings. I somehow do not think it's my computer...
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Best comment from the g4tv interview.
"So, does the winner eventually get to face Xur, and the Kodan Armada?"
I loved that movie...
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I think I am going to have to pick either this or GSL to follow. Tournaments like MLG are easy to watch, just 1 weekend. To follow GSL I have to spend several hours a day to watch all the games, I am now pretty much watching protoss only games. If I didn't want to play SC2, or league of legends anymore, and wanted to devote all of my free time to SC2 watching it would be fine. But I don't think I can practically devote 4-5 hours a day to just watching NASL and GSL. Is anyone else worried about this? It might not be as huge if people have to choose, and have to divide their time.. It might take away from all the hype and back story, I personally might have to stick to watching game vods and skipping around instead of watching all the back story and interviews etc that this league wants to do.
I'm going to for sure watch protoss matches that are recommended and of course, i'm going to try to attend the finals some time. My dad lives an hour out from Los Angeles, so that seems like a perfect excuse to come visit him, and go see some awesome top 16 action. Maybe not the first one since I'm moving to the east coast during June, and supposed to go to Walt Disney World in July, but I'll try to make it out there for one :D.
Also. say the over 5 members prevents team members from participating, what's preventing them from forming a new "overflow" team, a team for people that are not chosen as part of their 5? If they are a part of 2 separate teams and then just promote their teams sponsors, but not their team name during NASL? I don't like the "limit" on players. What if one team is formed with the absolute 10 best players in the world, no question. Your going to tell 5 of the top 10 they can't play so the 25th through 40th best players can?
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On February 23 2011 08:59 LoLAdriankat wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 08:33 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On February 23 2011 08:31 Keitzer wrote:On February 23 2011 08:22 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On February 23 2011 08:19 Froadac wrote:
Another valid reason for not buying the ticket (probably will, but w/e) is that your internet can't support the higher quality stream, as may or may not be true for me. If SQ is 480p, that's the max my web can handle, so no reason to get premium. Wow good point I did not think about this, I can't watch Justin in anything over 480p and I'm in the US with a 20 meg download internet. Hmhmhmhmhm. might not be worth my $20 if I can't use the HQ and I won't need the VOD's. Move me from the "buying a ticket for sure" to the "maybe if i can get Justin to work I'll buy it" category with that. what? i can view 720p in NA just fine, and i have less than that in DL (i think it's around 15mb) I cannot and almost never have been able to. Yet I can watch streams on Livestream, Ustream, GOM, and own3d with no issues. But Justin just freezes after about 2 seconds on anything higher then 480p. I had to watch one of the GCPL's in 240p ffs. It's probably an issue with your computer. I can watch 1080p streams perfectly on my main rig while my netbook can't handle anything higher than 360p, on the same internet connection.
It's an issue with throttling service providers most likely.
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On February 23 2011 09:07 BraveGhost wrote:
I think I am going to have to pick either this or GSL to follow. Tournaments like MLG are easy to watch, just 1 weekend. To follow GSL I have to spend several hours a day to watch all the games, I am now pretty much watching protoss only games. If I didn't want to play SC2, or league of legends anymore, and wanted to devote all of my free time to SC2 watching it would be fine. But I don't think I can practically devote 4-5 hours a day to just watching NASL and GSL. Is anyone else worried about this? It might not be as huge if people have to choose, and have to divide their time.. It might take away from all the hype and back story, I personally might have to stick to watching game vods and skipping around instead of watching all the back story and interviews etc that this league wants to do.
I'm going to for sure watch protoss matches that are recommended and of course, i'm going to try to attend the finals some time. My dad lives an hour out from Los Angeles, so that seems like a perfect excuse to come visit him, and go see some awesome top 16 action. Maybe not the first one since I'm moving to the east coast during June, and supposed to go to Walt Disney World in July, but I'll try to make it out there for one :D.
Walt Disney was racist... You know who isn't? InControl (cuz any race he does not like... *SHARK MODE* and done.)
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On February 23 2011 09:12 SichuanPanda wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 08:59 LoLAdriankat wrote:On February 23 2011 08:33 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On February 23 2011 08:31 Keitzer wrote:On February 23 2011 08:22 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On February 23 2011 08:19 Froadac wrote:
Another valid reason for not buying the ticket (probably will, but w/e) is that your internet can't support the higher quality stream, as may or may not be true for me. If SQ is 480p, that's the max my web can handle, so no reason to get premium. Wow good point I did not think about this, I can't watch Justin in anything over 480p and I'm in the US with a 20 meg download internet. Hmhmhmhmhm. might not be worth my $20 if I can't use the HQ and I won't need the VOD's. Move me from the "buying a ticket for sure" to the "maybe if i can get Justin to work I'll buy it" category with that. what? i can view 720p in NA just fine, and i have less than that in DL (i think it's around 15mb) I cannot and almost never have been able to. Yet I can watch streams on Livestream, Ustream, GOM, and own3d with no issues. But Justin just freezes after about 2 seconds on anything higher then 480p. I had to watch one of the GCPL's in 240p ffs. It's probably an issue with your computer. I can watch 1080p streams perfectly on my main rig while my netbook can't handle anything higher than 360p, on the same internet connection. It's an issue with throttling service providers most likely.
Nope my ISP does not throttle or have bandwidth caps. It's Justin.
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I actually like the cap on players per team. In fact, with only 16 players, I wish it capped it even more. I know it means that a few well known players will be left out, but hopefully it should allow for even more players who can bring new ideas and play styles.
I will definitely be buying this subscription. The quality of play probably won't be as good as the GSL, but I'm down for the cause of investing in western SC2 events.
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justin.tv streams seem really werid. when the showmatch started yesterday it was so laggy it was unwatchable on 240. as soon as i put it on best however it smoothened out completely and lasted for about 10 mins where it became totally unwatchable again, but putting it on 360 fixed it for the rest of the showmatch. im pretty excited about the nasl and am really hoping the streams will be better - that kind of inconsistency cant be good for viewership.
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On February 23 2011 09:20 yakitate304 wrote:
I actually like the cap on players per team. In fact, with only 16 players, I wish it capped it even more. I know it means that a few well known players will be left out, but hopefully it should allow for even more players who can bring new ideas and play styles.
I will definitely be buying this subscription. The quality of play probably won't be as good as the GSL, but I'm down for the cause of investing in western SC2 events.
That 5-per team cap is for the initial 50 invitees, not for the final top 16 players.
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Personally my only problem was with the desynced sound. If that was fixed I would probably feel like it was a pretty decent show overall.
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On February 23 2011 08:33 iCCup.Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 08:31 Keitzer wrote:On February 23 2011 08:22 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On February 23 2011 08:19 Froadac wrote:
Another valid reason for not buying the ticket (probably will, but w/e) is that your internet can't support the higher quality stream, as may or may not be true for me. If SQ is 480p, that's the max my web can handle, so no reason to get premium. Wow good point I did not think about this, I can't watch Justin in anything over 480p and I'm in the US with a 20 meg download internet. Hmhmhmhmhm. might not be worth my $20 if I can't use the HQ and I won't need the VOD's. Move me from the "buying a ticket for sure" to the "maybe if i can get Justin to work I'll buy it" category with that. what? i can view 720p in NA just fine, and i have less than that in DL (i think it's around 15mb) I cannot and almost never have been able to. Yet I can watch streams on Livestream, Ustream, GOM, and own3d with no issues. But Justin just freezes after about 2 seconds on anything higher then 480p. I had to watch one of the GCPL's in 240p ffs.
Quite annoying. I have 768kbps DSL, so 360 is the best w/o lag I can get. Vods would be nice.
If I get better internet (highly likely) I'll probably get the ticket thoough.
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On February 23 2011 00:38 CursedFeanor wrote:On the price tagI just want to step in to give a huge WTF at all those who are complaining about the 20-25$ price tag. 25$ / (3h/night * 5nights/week * 13 weeks) = 13 cents per hour Do you realize you're whining like spoiled brats about being given a great entertainment product for about 13 cents per hour?! This is beyond ridiculous, I can't believe some are actually complaining... Oh and yeah... They also provide a free stream!!! And really guys, please put this into perspective. 20 bucks is about what you'll pay (if you're very reasonable) for any type of night out with friends. It's about 2 beers in a bar... geez it's NOTHING! On the playersI also want to point out that while the caliber of play *might* not be as high as with the koreans in GSL, I personally find the western type of play much more fun! Think Kiwikaki, Catz, TLO, etc... In the GSL, it's basically the same matches over and over again. There is no place for crazy stuff, while this is much more frequent in the tournaments in NA or EU. And I also believe the top 50 "foreign" players can compete with the top 50 koreans no problem in terms of skill. This in my opinion will make the NASL so great to watch, with the added bonus that it won't be in the middle of the night!
I really wish it was the top 50 players that would be awesome, if it was a tournament with qualifiers then you really would be getting the top 50 players, where as them choosing the 10 best teams isnt going to get the top players, it doesnt really make sense to me. When they choose the 10 best teams each of those teams is going to want to put in 5 players even if they arent the best players, they are all going to want maximum representation. It just seems like a popularity contest, wich teams are the tightest with EG and gosucoaching? those teams will be considered the top 10 teams. I hope they have some kind of requirements that need to be met for a team to be considered a top team, like players from that team have to have placed top 4 in a couple of tournaments or something
Edit: Fnatic is going to be in this tournament do any of you really consider their players top tier players? i dont >< maybe TT1 but even he hasnt been performing that well recently
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I only wish they schedule the more important matches, like the semis and finals, on weekends and also at a relatively conveniently time for those in Asia. Much like how GSL March is scheduled now. Semis and Finals (for Code S at least) are all on Saturday afternoons in Korea. This may be like 9-10PM Fridays in most of the areas in the US.
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this thing needs tv exposure. not just streaming.
being the psuedo businessman....try to have a professional layout so you can record and establish a video library. you can always show this on g4 or something. but from what i've learned...g4 is on the way out. however, g4 is perfect for sc just like spike is perfect for ufc. but g4 lost its direct tv contract. we'll see.
i am my assessment is that this will fail. i hate to be a downer but i give it 35 40 pct of sucess beyond season 4.
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Friggin' cool. Now our guys don't have to have to travel all the way around the world to make money off of their skills. I really hope NASL takes off. Can I reserve my season pass now?
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Anyone know at what times at night it will be aired? I'm so excited for this, I just hope it isn't aired like 7pm at night since that is 4am where I live
I'm sorry if this has been answered already, 42 pages is a lot to look through
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thank you for putting all of this in one place. I believe he said 4 pst and then again in the morning for European viewers
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On February 23 2011 10:13 OEDLING wrote:Anyone know at what times at night it will be aired? I'm so excited for this, I just hope it isn't aired like 7pm at night since that is 4am where I live I'm sorry if this has been answered already, 42 pages is a lot to look through
They're going to restream for Europeans at some European time ^_^
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On February 23 2011 10:07 Phanekim wrote:
this thing needs tv exposure. not just streaming.
being the psuedo businessman....try to have a professional layout so you can record and establish a video library. you can always show this on g4 or something. but from what i've learned...g4 is on the way out. however, g4 is perfect for sc just like spike is perfect for ufc. but g4 lost its direct tv contract. we'll see.
i am my assessment is that this will fail. i hate to be a downer but i give it 35 40 pct of sucess beyond season 4.
Yea i could see the premium service covering the prize pool but there are so many other expenses i couldnt really see this going beyond season 4 just on the internet, gom got a tv deal for code s with anibox im sure that has really helped them out. The prize pool also seems quite high they should have started it out at 60k it still would have attracted a huge number of players. I really cant see a nearly all online tournament being able to generate anywhere near the same revenue as the gsl or even get on tv in this format. Change it to an all offline format and have qualifiers and this could really be a top tier tournament, i would support it 100%
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On February 23 2011 05:27 BlueFlames wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 05:21 eloist wrote:
I disagree with people that just outright call for support for this due to the large prize pool. If you have 20 bucks to spare without getting the actual production value equivalent for it, you might as well donate it to any of the other well run events that you can watch for free and tell them to add it to their prize pool. You are absolutly right, but its also wrong to talk about the production value of something that has not been done yet. We dont know anything. Could be they arent even far enough to do this production by themselves and Graetorp and Incontrol had to do this in SirScoots basement. The stream will be free and you can make up your mind after you have seen the actual production. If it sucks than dont buy it, because supporting the wrong people for the sake of e-sports is bs. If it is good than spend the money with the knowledge that you will get entertained and did something good for the sc2-scene.
Why you dogging the basement that I do not have?
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The 5 members per team thing looks like they want to eventually develop this into a team franchise thing with 9X 5 man teams.
This would attract more sponsorship later on kinda like any of the NBA, MLB or NFL.
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On February 23 2011 08:02 iCCup.Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 07:57 aristarchus wrote:On February 23 2011 07:49 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On February 23 2011 07:46 PJA wrote:
I feel like anyone who is complaining about the $20 cost who is either a) still in high school or b) in undergrad and has no income. I totally understand what it's like when you don't have a job, but if you're in these categories why are you even talking about money/the lack of value you're getting for $20?
Anyone who has any actual income and has any spare money isn't going to complain about how $20 every 3 months is breaking the bank and not giving them value for their money. It's extremely inexpensive to support the biggest thing ever in western E-sports. Or C: They are being very frugal with their $ after a worldwide economic recession, call them crazy... Of course I am buying a NASL ticket, but I understand the concerns, especially after last night's disaster. I understand the concerns after last night - obviously that cast was not up to pay-for-it quality standards. That, though, is easily dealt with by the free stream. I for one will certainly be watching that once or twice before paying for anything to see what the quality really is. I don't understand the people complaining that $20 is too high even if it's done well. It's extremely low for the amount of content. I assume some of these people sometimes go to a movie... I might not pay for it, but only because the free stream is better as an alternative than GOM's because of the more convenient time. The idea that $20 is a ripoff is just insane. It's for sure NOT a rip off, but for people on a limited budget (ie: most people) $20 is not somethign they can just throw out, also you have to consider that this is not the only pay SC2 stream. Now if you get every paid stream for 2011 you will pay: 9 Months of GSL with ads: $90 9 Months of NASL: $60 6 MLG Streams: $60 6 or so IEM streams: $60 So you are talking $270 to support all of these streams. That's actually a lot of $ for most people, even if the content/$ ratio is very high. I know I only will end up buying GOM, MLG, and NASL streams, should I also buy the IEM streams to "support espots" even though I have little interest in most of the IEM's or just catch the free stream?
What does it cost to go to the movies? Are you checking out year by year in advance which movies you are going to see? In my country 20$ is only gonna get me 1 visit at the cinema. It wont be enough to get into a hockey or football game. In comparison to other stuff the content of that 20$ looks kind of cheap to me.
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Don't use the arrow keys when you're observing!
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On February 23 2011 11:47 Neo.NEt wrote:
Don't use the arrow keys when you're observing!
This, middle mouse moving is much nicer for observing.
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On February 23 2011 06:18 stephiso wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 03:29 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On February 23 2011 03:27 stephiso wrote:
I'm curious to know why IdrA forfeitted for the GSL March since NASL only starts on April 11th? Any body knows why?
He didn't forfeit in the GSL because of a conflict with the NASL. He forfeited because he's leaving Korea. Why doesn't he leave Korea later? NASL only starts on April 11th, that's what I'm asking. He is already qualified in code S anyways, might as well give it a shot (yesterday he was supposed to play)...and go home if he did not make it through
he wasnt leaving due to the NASL. he announced he was leaving after he knew about the NASL he just wanted to leave so he dropped out of GSL and left.....either way if he did or didnt know about the NASL somehow by contacting someone involved it will be great to have him competing in and promoting it.
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On February 23 2011 10:20 cheesemaster wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 10:07 Phanekim wrote:
this thing needs tv exposure. not just streaming.
being the psuedo businessman....try to have a professional layout so you can record and establish a video library. you can always show this on g4 or something. but from what i've learned...g4 is on the way out. however, g4 is perfect for sc just like spike is perfect for ufc. but g4 lost its direct tv contract. we'll see.
i am my assessment is that this will fail. i hate to be a downer but i give it 35 40 pct of sucess beyond season 4. Yea i could see the premium service covering the prize pool but there are so many other expenses i couldnt really see this going beyond season 4 just on the internet, gom got a tv deal for code s with anibox im sure that has really helped them out. The prize pool also seems quite high they should have started it out at 60k it still would have attracted a huge number of players. I really cant see a nearly all online tournament being able to generate anywhere near the same revenue as the gsl or even get on tv in this format. Change it to an all offline format and have qualifiers and this could really be a top tier tournament, i would support it 100%
Well when they are budgeted for 3 years so they have plenty of time to work out a functional format, why start small?
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Only 1 participant from open tournament? I feel thats a bit low. Couldn't they just have 47 invitational + 3 semifinalist from open tourney for the 50 player groups and then the winner of the open get the 16th spot? I feel like there are a lot of potential players who really doesn't provide much of a presence to be known but could potentially be great especially if they can win their way from 1000 other players. Just to lose at the semifinal or finals to get nothing. Just my two cent.
EDITED: nevermind, just read the Q&A thread. I guess the Top 4 do get something after all.
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amaziing cant wait so it can start
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On February 23 2011 05:40 BlueFlames wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 05:32 heaven- wrote:
I don't mean to be negative. I said this before but doesn't the fact that there is zero mention of sponsors worry you a little bit????
The prize money is ridiculously high for zero sponsorship?? Or am I missing something.
read the interview. than read it again. and if you still dont understand the informations that were given than write incontrol a message. why the hell would i be worried that they did not release all the information over 1 month before the start? you dont want to be negative but you are. do you think that eg, fanatic and gosucouching are all just really big jokes? telling people they have the finances for the whole thing secured when they dont? if they were to lie anyone involved could never again show their face anywhere. sc2 might not make it into tv, but a news like that would. they would get sued into oblivion. damn just be positive ok?
Why would I be worried?
I can respond to that with one word: ESWC.
edit:
I would also like to add that when the world economy began to plummet and the death of wc3 took off countless of Professional (professional mind you) teams just stopped paying their players.
I am not sure what was it like in the sc scene at the time but in wc3, every other news was "Player A quits team B. Reason 'they owe me money so i quit' " again and again. So yeah I do not mean to be negative but I cannot help but be realistic. The prize pool is insanely high for no sponsors, yes it worries me.
As to your getting sued point. It would not happen. If the league owner says sorry we did not make enough revenue post tournament to make up for the expenses, no prize money (which has happened countless of times already) there is nobody to sue.
Now I am not saying this is what happens for sure, but sometimes its important to ask the uncomfortable questions, gotta learn from the past.
With that being said, I hope for the best and I am extremely excited if this goes through.
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They DO have sponsorship. The sponsor is just remaining a silent partner which is their perogative. Like GSL which has some growing pains at first NASL will come good eventually, something with this level of financial support and community support is always welcome for scene looking to gain new interest and keep old school gamer interest as well. Don't worry about NASL, let NASL worry about NASL and enjoy the results or don't watch it.
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On February 23 2011 16:33 Maynarde wrote:
They DO have sponsorship. The sponsor is just remaining a silent partner which is their perogative. Like GSL which has some growing pains at first NASL will come good eventually, something with this level of financial support and community support is always welcome for scene looking to gain new interest and keep old school gamer interest as well. Don't worry about NASL, let NASL worry about NASL and enjoy the results or don't watch it.
The sponsors are not remaining silent partners, if you heard russ talk today he said they just havent been announced yet, but like he said they are sponsors they want their names out there but the announcement just happened yesterday i assume we will see who the sponsors are by next week
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On February 23 2011 12:16 MattyClutch wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 10:20 cheesemaster wrote:On February 23 2011 10:07 Phanekim wrote:
this thing needs tv exposure. not just streaming.
being the psuedo businessman....try to have a professional layout so you can record and establish a video library. you can always show this on g4 or something. but from what i've learned...g4 is on the way out. however, g4 is perfect for sc just like spike is perfect for ufc. but g4 lost its direct tv contract. we'll see.
i am my assessment is that this will fail. i hate to be a downer but i give it 35 40 pct of sucess beyond season 4. Yea i could see the premium service covering the prize pool but there are so many other expenses i couldnt really see this going beyond season 4 just on the internet, gom got a tv deal for code s with anibox im sure that has really helped them out. The prize pool also seems quite high they should have started it out at 60k it still would have attracted a huge number of players. I really cant see a nearly all online tournament being able to generate anywhere near the same revenue as the gsl or even get on tv in this format. Change it to an all offline format and have qualifiers and this could really be a top tier tournament, i would support it 100% Well when they are budgeted for 3 years so they have plenty of time to work out a functional format, why start small?
they are budgeted for three seasons, wich will most likely occur over the course of a year or maybe a bit more im assuming, after listening to sotg and hearing they do have sponsors who havent been announced yet im not so worried about that. Liquidtyler pretty much expressed all of my concerns on state of the game, ive always liked him and respect his opinions. I think they are way too worried about collusion though. Honestly if they had qualifiers and did it in a similair format to the gsl this wouldnt be a problem tyler suggested this briefly but russ and incontrol seem pretty stuck on this format.
Like tyler said though this format will pretty much ruin team growth, if the nasl becomes a top tier tournament that everyone wants to participate in, why would a good player want to join a team who had all their spots filled for the NASL this is going to mean more teams competing for sponsors meaning the sponsorship for esports will be spread alot thinner teams are already having trouble finding sponsors i can only see it getting worse if 5 man teams become the norm for north america, You want bigger more elite teams not small diluted teams. =( Its convenient for the NASL to do it this way but not so convenient for e-sports
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if it was with qualifiers maybe EG anf fnatic would just put 1 2 guys in there this way they can put more ;x
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If they dont do it with qualifiers, I hope they do at least implement a relegation, so that for example the 2 last in a group can be booted from the league.
Everybody that knows european football also knows how much excitement the relegation system adds. It also gives the teams (or players) that are at the bottom of the league an extremely strong incentive to fight on. Often the games about relegation spots is even more exciting than the fight at the top.
Thats why I REALLY hope they implement a relegation system.
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Jesus Christ, $400k? This IS crazy...
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guys ... white-ra is not on a team he is in DUCKLOAD that makes DUCKLOAD a team ? (cause its just his 1man sponsor show) i rly hope because this show NEEDS ra !
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On February 23 2011 07:10 diesirae wrote:
If you want an e-sport to grow, this is by far the worst way to go about it. The only people who will pay for this are TL fanboys. Enjoy your tournament, losers! I'm sure you're going to love your $20 investment as you're watching people 1a-click armies into each other.
... keep manner plz
we dont know the players yet, so lets wait and see and plz just flame after you have all informations
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On February 22 2011 11:06 ReachTheSky wrote:
This is a north american starleague.......can't we just keep this to north americans? ><
wow ... most rassistic tread read for a long time ...
i think alot ALOT of european/s.american etc players are better then most of the us player like 70-30% in the VERY top (also because europe ofc have way miore countrys where the money is much more worth) TSL Qualifiers etc seems to show the same etc
only NA would make it a very boring tournament with not including 80% of the non asian scene
its way way WAY more epic tournament with players who are the best from all over the world
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First impression, the team rules are retarded.
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Sounds nice.
Just the 5 Players per team rule is stupid?
2 things can come from this:
1: A high profile player won't be in the tournament.
2: A Team will split itself into 2 while still keeping the same sponsors for both, the same "house/whatever" for both and the rule is nullified.
3: Teams split.
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"I am so excited... and I can't hide it..."
I can see why they only want team players on the league for now. Imagine a formula-1 car race where anyone with a car can participate. You really need a team to back you up for a professional endeavors like this.
best of luck!
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Questions are up now for people who want to apply.
Pre-Season Questionnaire:
1. Tell us about yourself and your history with SC2
2. Why should you be a part of the NASL?
3. Who are your biggest rivals?
4. How do you stand out from other players?
5. Name one player you’d like to see in the NASL?
6. Anything else you’d like to add?
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On February 23 2011 23:57 Marcus420 wrote:
Questions are up now for people who want to apply.
Pre-Season Questionnaire:
1. Tell us about yourself and your history with SC2
2. Why should you be a part of the NASL?
3. Who are your biggest rivals?
4. How do you stand out from other players?
5. Name one player you’d like to see in the NASL?
6. Anything else you’d like to add?
For players that barely speak english it must suck to answer these questions per video. :D
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Why does some of the more unknown players have like 11k votes? Seems kind of odd.
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Chill recommended that I repost my thread about the 5 player limit rule in this thread.
I, along with the majority of the Starcraft 2 community waited in anticipation to hear Incontrol's announcement. Over the past couple of months, the hype built into a fever pitch that culminated with 35k viewers tuning into Justin.tv to see the Clash of the Titan's showmatch and hear the major announcement.
It's coming...
an esports revolution
a new age begins
$400,000
North American Star League
We were not disappointed. Starcraft 2 communities like Team Liquid and SCReddit exploded with excitement. This was it. NASL would be the answer to helping esports grow in North America. Finally, a professional league to call our own. We were grinning ear to ear.
After the initial excitement subsided, specific details about the league trickled in. NASL would be a 50 member league. The matches would be played online, while the final 16 would be played at a LAN tournament. NASL participants must be on a team. Only a maximum of 5 players from each team can participate in NASL.
Hold it. A team can only have a maximum of 5 players participating in NASL. I didn't like it. At first, I attributed my discomfort to the fact that Team Liquid couldn't field all of it's players. However, the more I thought about the rule, I became increasingly distressed.
Why? Why would I become distressed?
This seemingly innocuous rule of 5 players per team may lead to NA Esport's downfall.
NASL hopes to become the premiere Starcraft 2 league in North America. The rise of NASL would help grow and spread esports in North America. Teams would make it a priority for its players to participate in the North American Star League.
Due to the current rules of NASL, I feel NASL's rise to prominence may lead to NA esports downfall. Their are four crucial pillars when it comes to the professional Starcraft 2 community: viewers, casters, sponsors, and teams (players). NASL's rule for a max of 5 players from a team would decimate and create irreparable harm to North American teams.
North America lags behind Europe and Korea when it comes to the development of the esports community; especially when it comes to the formation of sponsored teams. We've all heard stories about the difficulties of North American Starcraft 2 teams finding sponsorship to support its players. Other established NA teams had to downsize their roster. NA teams cannot afford to send its players oversee to participate in offline European tournaments, nor the GSL. When MLG came along, it was a true blessing for the teams. It gave them a platform to showcase its players.
Now we have NASL. If NASL becomes established and the premiere NA Starcraft 2 tournament, companies will most likely sponsor a team that has a max of 5 players. Why should a company sponsor more than 5 players? After all, if NASL continues to grow and goes beyond the three seasons (total 400k prize pool), a team with more than 5 players would be a waste. A team wouldn't be able to showcase all of its players in NASL.
Europe and Korea will most likely not face the same problems. Teams in the two areas have a firmer financial stability with more tournament opportunities like ESL, Dreamhack, and the plethora of offline tournaments. Thus, teams wouldn't be incline to limit their roster to five players.
Unfortunately, the rise of NASL would hinder the growth of North American teams due to the 5 player limit rule. Teams play a critical role to the development of its players, but also contribute to the existence of a professional esport's community. Teams allow its players to attend tournaments where individuals can make a name for themselves.
NASL would only contribute to the fragility of the Starcraft 2 team scene in North America. It's difficult getting sponsors. Moreover, it's harder for players to join a team that has some kind of financial stability. NASL's 5 player limit rule would encourage sponsors to pressure teams into downsizing to 5 players. This would give professional players less opportunity to join a team, which would be detrimental to their growth. Tournaments are more likely to invite players who are on a team. Team allow players to play Starcraft 2 professional.
The 5 player per team limit rule will ultimately weaken esport's community. I fear that NASL's rise may lead to NA esport's downfall. I hope I am wrong.
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The 5 player per team is actually nice.
The players in the league are supposed to compete against each others, it's always a bit awkward when team mates have to play against each other. So it wouldn't be good to have 10 players in the same team.
Let's say the 50 players will correspond to the current top 50 in the current vote.
The only teams exceeding 5 are Liquid and Mouz both with 6 players.
It doesn't look like a huge limitation, especially if you consider that some of their player may play in GSL instead of NASL.
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Football teams have a certain amount of players on the field, so does soccer, basketball, hockey, etc.
This is about creating idols that you can follow over several seasons.
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On February 23 2011 21:29 CoR wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 11:06 ReachTheSky wrote:
This is a north american starleague.......can't we just keep this to north americans? >< wow ... most rassistic tread read for a long time ... i think alot ALOT of european/s.american etc players are better then most of the us player like 70-30% in the VERY top (also because europe ofc have way miore countrys where the money is much more worth) TSL Qualifiers etc seems to show the same etc only NA would make it a very boring tournament with not including 80% of the non asian scene its way way WAY more epic tournament with players who are the best from all over the world
Korean eSports was developed for Koreans, not a bunch of outsiders. That's all I got to say.
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WOW Diggity and possibly Moletrap too!! This is going to be like the old days of the Korean sc1 pro scene. I'm REALLY excited now. Only if we could get Cholera and Klazart to do some guest casting!
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I've thought about this league for quite some time, and the following is likely the one things that bothers me the most.
This league is mimicking its selection criteria and overall angle very closely to that of the failed Championship Gaming Series. In that league, they hand picked the players that could play, had visual looks and personality count towards the selection (NASL requires video, audio only applications are not allowed...), and focused heavily on a "team spirit" aspect. Furthermore, they made it nearly impossible to break into the league after their first "draft", thus causing a loss of interest from those that might want to aspire to compete in it. The argument was, of course, that the league wanted to build storylines and backgrounds just as in other sports (sound familiar)? Lastly, those that were picked often had contacts with those doing the picking - or basically, the team managers were biased as is human nature to those they knew. This league is also doing picks by what appears to be the league creators - one of which had close ties with EG and the other who has close ties to Fnatic.
The CGS format was nearly universally panned except for those that constantly kept repeating how the community should support it as it was great that so much money was being thrown at e-sports along with the frequent broadcasting. In short, personal feelings of "X should have selected Y" were to be ignored and the public was expected to keep supporting the same hand picked players season after season, some of which had never shown they really belonged there in the first place over others.
In terms of setup, excluding the fact that NASL is skipping putting on a fake qualification event (ie. the CGS combine), I just cannot see the difference. I am ignoring NASL's open qualification event as it is a token 1 spot that seems there just as a weak attempt to legitimize the event (with the bet being one of the 15 "chosen ones" will win by sheer numbers and thus allow the organizers to point out that their players are the best). Even ignoring CGS, the entire invitational model just starts to strangle a community as you cannot build e-sports top-down by only supporting a select elite (In my opinion, Quake 3/LIVE ended up with the same problem of few taking competition as an esport except those constantly invited to invitationals).
I think they should just drop this whole facade of making esports huge and call this what it actually is: an invitational. It isn't meant to inspire the average Joe to play more, it isn't meant to get healthy competition going among the community as a whole, and, heck, it isn't even really "North American". All of this is just my opinion, of course.
Looking forward to continuing to watch the GSL, TSL, and MLG - relatively open qualifications make these events so much more exciting to watch knowing the players proved they belong there.
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I'm still confused how an arbitrary team makes a player more reliable, or more specifically how not being on a team makes them unreliable, if they are known by the community and actually want to and are able to compete, i see no reason why they wouldn't be held into the same esteem as a team'd player. and the "if your good enough you'll be on a team" stuff isn't true, teams are very selective in their player choices and there are plenty of great players not representing a team but every one of them will be excluded, such as white ra for example, a player known by the community and held in high esteem, if he was for sure able to play, you think that he'd be unreliable just because he is solo sponsered?
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On February 24 2011 05:25 PrinceXizor wrote:
I'm still confused how an arbitrary team makes a player more reliable, or more specifically how not being on a team makes them unreliable, if they are known by the community and actually want to and are able to compete, i see no reason why they wouldn't be held into the same esteem as a team'd player. and the "if your good enough you'll be on a team" stuff isn't true, teams are very selective in their player choices and there are plenty of great players not representing a team but every one of them will be excluded, such as white ra for example, a player known by the community and held in high esteem, if he was for sure able to play, you think that he'd be unreliable just because he is solo sponsered?
I agree.
But I also think that the polls/votations might help with that.
If enough people vote in a player, maybe they'll take that as an indicator that this player is reliable.
//tx
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On February 24 2011 05:25 PrinceXizor wrote:
I'm still confused how an arbitrary team makes a player more reliable, or more specifically how not being on a team makes them unreliable, if they are known by the community and actually want to and are able to compete, i see no reason why they wouldn't be held into the same esteem as a team'd player. and the "if your good enough you'll be on a team" stuff isn't true, teams are very selective in their player choices and there are plenty of great players not representing a team but every one of them will be excluded, such as white ra for example, a player known by the community and held in high esteem, if he was for sure able to play, you think that he'd be unreliable just because he is solo sponsered?
If you read the Q&A thread, White-Ra counts as being on a team. A team can consist of one member.
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On February 24 2011 04:54 [-Bluewolf-] wrote:
I've thought about this league for quite some time, and the following is likely the one things that bothers me the most.
This league is mimicking its selection criteria and overall angle very closely to that of the failed Championship Gaming Series. In that league, they hand picked the players that could play, had visual looks and personality count towards the selection (NASL requires video, audio only applications are not allowed...), and focused heavily on a "team spirit" aspect. Furthermore, they made it nearly impossible to break into the league after their first "draft", thus causing a loss of interest from those that might want to aspire to compete in it. The argument was, of course, that the league wanted to build storylines and backgrounds just as in other sports (sound familiar)? Lastly, those that were picked often had contacts with those doing the picking - or basically, the team managers were biased as is human nature to those they knew. This league is also doing picks by what appears to be the league creators - one of which had close ties with EG and the other who has close ties to Fnatic.
The CGS format was nearly universally panned except for those that constantly kept repeating how the community should support it as it was great that so much money was being thrown at e-sports along with the frequent broadcasting. In short, personal feelings of "X should have selected Y" were to be ignored and the public was expected to keep supporting the same hand picked players season after season, some of which had never shown they really belonged there in the first place over others.
In terms of setup, excluding the fact that NASL is skipping putting on a fake qualification event (ie. the CGS combine), I just cannot see the difference. I am ignoring NASL's open qualification event as it is a token 1 spot that seems there just as a weak attempt to legitimize the event (with the bet being one of the 15 "chosen ones" will win by sheer numbers and thus allow the organizers to point out that their players are the best). Even ignoring CGS, the entire invitational model just starts to strangle a community as you cannot build e-sports top-down by only supporting a select elite (In my opinion, Quake 3/LIVE ended up with the same problem of few taking competition as an esport except those constantly invited to invitationals).
I think they should just drop this whole facade of making esports huge and call this what it actually is: an invitational. It isn't meant to inspire the average Joe to play more, it isn't meant to get healthy competition going among the community as a whole, and, heck, it isn't even really "North American". All of this is just my opinion, of course.
Looking forward to continuing to watch the GSL, TSL, and MLG - relatively open qualifications make these events so much more exciting to watch knowing the players proved they belonged there.
I'll admit, the invitational aspect bothered me too. However, the GSL's thousand-man qualifier also bothered me, it felt like a lot of it was "luck of the brackets" for who got televised - but open qualifiers are WORLDS better than this popularity contest...
I like how TSL did qualifiers the best - turn a weekly, online open tournament into a (large) set of qualifying tournaments, rather than ... 1 qualifier spot and the rest invitationals.
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On February 24 2011 05:32 [-Bluewolf-] wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2011 05:25 PrinceXizor wrote:
I'm still confused how an arbitrary team makes a player more reliable, or more specifically how not being on a team makes them unreliable, if they are known by the community and actually want to and are able to compete, i see no reason why they wouldn't be held into the same esteem as a team'd player. and the "if your good enough you'll be on a team" stuff isn't true, teams are very selective in their player choices and there are plenty of great players not representing a team but every one of them will be excluded, such as white ra for example, a player known by the community and held in high esteem, if he was for sure able to play, you think that he'd be unreliable just because he is solo sponsered? If you read the Q&A thread, White-Ra counts as being on a team. A team can consist of one member.
this 100% blows my mind. fine, everyone join your own team so you can play.
if you require teams, but allow 1 man teams, then why require teams at all? anyone can form a team with themselves and try to join, and if you discriminate against their team because of it it causes issues. :/ really things are just way overcomplicated. just have the 250 dollar deposit and thats it. SC2 players aren't really going to throw away 250.
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On February 24 2011 04:54 [-Bluewolf-] wrote:
I've thought about this league for quite some time, and the following is likely the one things that bothers me the most.
This league is mimicking its selection criteria and overall angle very closely to that of the failed Championship Gaming Series. In that league, they hand picked the players that could play, had visual looks and personality count towards the selection (NASL requires video, audio only applications are not allowed...), and focused heavily on a "team spirit" aspect. Furthermore, they made it nearly impossible to break into the league after their first "draft", thus causing a loss of interest from those that might want to aspire to compete in it. The argument was, of course, that the league wanted to build storylines and backgrounds just as in other sports (sound familiar)? Lastly, those that were picked often had contacts with those doing the picking - or basically, the team managers were biased as is human nature to those they knew. This league is also doing picks by what appears to be the league creators - one of which had close ties with EG and the other who has close ties to Fnatic.
The CGS format was nearly universally panned except for those that constantly kept repeating how the community should support it as it was great that so much money was being thrown at e-sports along with the frequent broadcasting. In short, personal feelings of "X should have selected Y" were to be ignored and the public was expected to keep supporting the same hand picked players season after season, some of which had never shown they really belonged there in the first place over others.
In terms of setup, excluding the fact that NASL is skipping putting on a fake qualification event (ie. the CGS combine), I just cannot see the difference. I am ignoring NASL's open qualification event as it is a token 1 spot that seems there just as a weak attempt to legitimize the event (with the bet being one of the 15 "chosen ones" will win by sheer numbers and thus allow the organizers to point out that their players are the best). Even ignoring CGS, the entire invitational model just starts to strangle a community as you cannot build e-sports top-down by only supporting a select elite (In my opinion, Quake 3/LIVE ended up with the same problem of few taking competition as an esport except those constantly invited to invitationals).
I think they should just drop this whole facade of making esports huge and call this what it actually is: an invitational. It isn't meant to inspire the average Joe to play more, it isn't meant to get healthy competition going among the community as a whole, and, heck, it isn't even really "North American". All of this is just my opinion, of course.
Looking forward to continuing to watch the GSL, TSL, and MLG - relatively open qualifications make these events so much more exciting to watch knowing the players proved they belong there.
I don't think I can agree anymore. When I first heard about this, I thought it sounded awesome and was super stoked. But now it seems like there's no point in trying to even get to this level anymore because chances are they will pick the teams from seasons prior than just picking a new no name teams that pops up.
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I thought we were lucky that people don't have to be in California to qualify for top 16 place :D
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Awesome. I have to pay money for VODs just like the GSL?
COOL.
It'll be interesting to see how successful this turns out, but that'll be purely from news posts for me. -_-
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I haven't read the whole thread but this silly idea popped in my head when I was reading the OP.
What happens to the GSL now? From what I hear (source is internet), Starcraft 2 and GSL isn't doing soooo well in Korea but that the foreigners love SC2. If this is false, stop reading and move on, if this is true, can I say that a lot of the GSL audience are foreigners? Now, with a new league, are these foreigners gonna stick with the GSL, or watch this league? I doubt (I won't) someone will buy 2 tickets to watch NASL AND GSL. I'm probably going to watch the NASL, and if ( IF IF IF ) what I'm saying is true, then isn't GSL going to die?
Again this is super speculative I have nothing to back up what anything that I'm saying but I would like to have someone's opinion on this and say if I'm completely off the track.
EDIT : I've finished reading the interview. WOW INC!!! Your girlfriend has competition now, me.
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So stoked for this. Team Liquid Whaiting!
I wonder which players are gonna play though =/
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On February 23 2011 05:56 BlueFlames wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 05:51 YouGotNothin wrote:On February 23 2011 05:47 BlueFlames wrote:On February 23 2011 05:45 vicariouscheese wrote:On February 23 2011 05:42 YouGotNothin wrote:
Starcraft is going to become so popular because of NASL and then when all my friends are like man this is awesome, don't you play Starcraft? And I'll be like hell yeah I do. And then all the girls will want to be in my pants. you had me until girls but that would be the best marketing strategy for this projekt, dont you think? ^^ Starcraft Girls for the NASL, yes I can see it now, they'll be like cheerleaders at football games, except hotter because they'll be dressed up like Kerrigan (human Kerrigan not that icky other one). Kerrigan and Nova lookalikes dancing the Firebathero dance or Yellows dance anyone? I would pay just to see that happening.^^
brb
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I find it interesting, that so many people dislike casting from replays. I don't care about replays. I enjoyed the past couple of TL Opens so much. Additionally i think casting from replays has some really great advantages, if you figure out the sync issues of course. (I didn't know there are sync issues until the jinro idra showmatch.) Replay-casting gives the caster much more control, they literally hit a button and the game begins; the result is a smoother show. A nice side effect is, it takes away any chance for stream abuse.
What I dislike, is the current plan to record a live cast and play it back ~24h later. This way you detract interactivity from the broadcast and this is a huge deal for me. Interactivity is the main distinction from regular TV and the internet's biggest perk. Getting live feedback, reacting to stuff happening during the show, like polls or the GSL questions; these things give me the feeling I'm involved in the broadcast and I like it.
That being said, I think it's sad you're not taking full advantage of the possibilities of the internet.
Regarding the NASL and the showmatch in general just this. I expected more from the showmatch. The issues have been named several times already and I won't repeat them. The actual announcement was kind of anti-climactic, too. I admit, I have mixed feelings towards NASL now. A good portion of concern has blended with my excitement. I won't blindly buy premium. I probably would have done it before the showmatch. I will wait, tune in in April and see what improvements you've made and then decide. My budget is limited and it's either NASL or GSL. May the better show win.
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On February 24 2011 04:54 [-Bluewolf-] wrote:
I've thought about this league for quite some time, and the following is likely the one things that bothers me the most.
This league is mimicking its selection criteria and overall angle very closely to that of the failed Championship Gaming Series. In that league, they hand picked the players that could play, had visual looks and personality count towards the selection (NASL requires video, audio only applications are not allowed...), and focused heavily on a "team spirit" aspect. Furthermore, they made it nearly impossible to break into the league after their first "draft", thus causing a loss of interest from those that might want to aspire to compete in it. The argument was, of course, that the league wanted to build storylines and backgrounds just as in other sports (sound familiar)? Lastly, those that were picked often had contacts with those doing the picking - or basically, the team managers were biased as is human nature to those they knew. This league is also doing picks by what appears to be the league creators - one of which had close ties with EG and the other who has close ties to Fnatic.
The CGS format was nearly universally panned except for those that constantly kept repeating how the community should support it as it was great that so much money was being thrown at e-sports along with the frequent broadcasting. In short, personal feelings of "X should have selected Y" were to be ignored and the public was expected to keep supporting the same hand picked players season after season, some of which had never shown they really belonged there in the first place over others.
In terms of setup, excluding the fact that NASL is skipping putting on a fake qualification event (ie. the CGS combine), I just cannot see the difference. I am ignoring NASL's open qualification event as it is a token 1 spot that seems there just as a weak attempt to legitimize the event (with the bet being one of the 15 "chosen ones" will win by sheer numbers and thus allow the organizers to point out that their players are the best). Even ignoring CGS, the entire invitational model just starts to strangle a community as you cannot build e-sports top-down by only supporting a select elite (In my opinion, Quake 3/LIVE ended up with the same problem of few taking competition as an esport except those constantly invited to invitationals).
I think they should just drop this whole facade of making esports huge and call this what it actually is: an invitational. It isn't meant to inspire the average Joe to play more, it isn't meant to get healthy competition going among the community as a whole, and, heck, it isn't even really "North American". All of this is just my opinion, of course.
Looking forward to continuing to watch the GSL, TSL, and MLG - relatively open qualifications make these events so much more exciting to watch knowing the players proved they belong there.
Exactly right. Everyone should read and re-read what bluewolf just wrote because that is exactly how this is.
For a player like me that is currently not on a team, does not have millionaire sponsors behind myself, but consistently beats the majority of players that are most likely going to be "picked" (that's right PICKED) for this league, it is going to be insanely difficult, if impossible to get into this league unless I am ordained by NASL to be one of the 50 players CHOSEN to be in their league.
I work my ass off, practice 6+ hours a day and am doing the entire goddamn progamer thing. I currently am not on a sponsored team. I am looking and have been obviously. I have waited for something as big as this to come along that I can get into and finally make a living professionally playing the game that i fucking love, and when it comes along, me and other people in my position are basically be said "fuck you" to because we do not already have money, we did not already know the right people, yet we have the skills, desire, motivation to fucking make this dream come true. I'm one of those people right now that this "north american star league" is making it AS DIFFICULT AS HUMANLY POSSIBLE for me to participate in.
North american e-sports should be based off of PLAYING THE GAME, not WHO YOU KNOW. Not a "make the rich richer" type of thing. This is in fact NOT basketball. Starcraft is an individual game. And the people that are trying to make it that aren't on a team right now, like myself, are not going to fucking go all the way to participate in a league and then not show up at the LAN for $100,000. That rule and reasoning is all fluff that basically excludes a player like myself that CAN in fact compete with the best players in this game.
Just everyone re-read bluewolf's post, he basically says everything a lot of people are thinking. I myself want very badly to get into this league. Sorry that I do not have mega sponsors behind me yet, or that I do not have the appropriate contacts. I want to get in this league and show people through my gameplay that I can compete and win.
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God i really hate to agree with avilo, it actually hurts my brain, but the selection process is less than ideal it's pretty much awful. It seems like you looked at GSL code S and thought that was cool and decided to avoid the three months of preseasons that became the qualifiers for code S.
I understand putting the quality of the event ahead of everything else, and that being a reason behind the selection process. but really have at the very least a TSL style qualifying ladder. if a player wants into the NASL let them earn it, and not be given it.
with tournaments and leagues impartiality creates legitimacy.
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As someone who really enjoys spectating SC2 more than playing (being a low diamond scrub), I have to say that something is terribly wrong in any league that doesn't base its competition on the merits of the players. GSL had three open tournaments which allowed for seeding the players who deserved their spots into Code S&A. NASL seems to have an arbitrary selection process which is guaranteed to disenfranchise worthy players. Requiring a team in a game which is designed around, and rewards individual skill, seems ludicrous. Also, what point is there in limiting the number of Korean players if they are willing to come over, and have the talent to be in the Top 50? Since when have we used race as a metric for qualification? Not to mention, the competing interests of the members of NASL will automatically cast a shadow of doubt on any selection process short of a true and fair seeding tournament.
NASL though, does strike me, as something uniquely American. SC2 simply isn't Xtreme enough to have the actual best players facing off against one another. Instead, the purity of the sport will be left by the wayside so that we can have manufactured story lines and team drama. I mean, if you like the WWF or the XFL, as opposed to wrestling or football then that might just be your thing. I don't mean to denigrate story lines or drama as a bad thing necessarily, but they should never take precedence over a fair and judicious system for the players. The solution for the NASL is simple, however. They just need to add an "I", for "Invitational".
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I can't help but feel that this is going to be a horrible disaster, based on the commentator selection, the tournament process, no live games except finals, the production quality of the show match as well as their website.
It seems like in such a hurry to realize the goal of a North American Star league they cut far too many corners and this will end up being a hurt on the SC E-sports community more than a help in the long run by diverting attention away from GSL etc..
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Since it's the North American star league, have an open before the "league" starts. Invite top 200 players on NA server. Top 50 get in. Fair and equal to all. Watch ladder explode. And please just use delay on justin.tv instead of day-delay. Good luck no matter what, but I think the whole "dream" thing does appeal to the masses.
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While I can appreciate that there is a tournament of this magnitude getting put together in North America, I can't seem to get behind it. As it has been mentioned so many times, it seems to be done wrong. Naturally I'm one of those crazy alarmists that freaked out in the first week of SC2 Beta and I didn't like it, so what do I know. There are so many problems though. This is not a small issue.
For one, it's an invitational. It has been said a hundred times but I can't help thinking that it's just wrong not to specify it, even in the title of the event. As far as I'm concerned, invitationals are flat out inferior to legitimate tournaments. I call "legitimate" tournaments legitimate because those who get to play in them actually earned their place.
Also, I'm not sure I fully understand, but what's the deal with having to be in a team? It seems like the whole administration of the NASL is bent on lowering the odds of the independents. By a lot.
Plus, what's with the 5 koreans thing? Whether or not it's true (and I hope it's not, just from an ethics standpoint), it's such a ridiculous thing to day. It just seems like an horrible idea to me, because the only possible motive for having such a rule would be an horrible one.
And another thing that bothers me, the $250 deposit. What the HELL? First let me put some things on the table. This is Starcraft 2 and it's a game that's essentially played online. In order to be online, you have to have power (pay for it) and have an Internet connection (and pay for it). Now both of those services can go down, as evidenced by the use of the word "unforeseeable".
I'll cite it:
every time they're rude or they're late or any kind of unforeseeable problems occur they'll be penalized $25 or $50
It may be an invitational, but is that how you treat your players? Because I think it's disgusting. I really do, and I chose that word carefully. It's disgusting. Those people sacrifice a *LOT* to do and practice what they do. Do NOT take money from their pockets. Sure they have to agree to it, but it's not necessarily because they actually agree with it - it's because it may be worth the risk - but that's still a huge slap in the face of the 20 year old college student who's got to find $250... And if a tree falls on a power line, God help us all.
It may be early enough to make a couple of things change. When this many people are worried about it, there's probably a problem, and IMO it would be unwise not to look into it.
I certainly won't get out of my way to watch this unless they make a couple of modifications, and I don't think it's above them to actually take the right steps. I remain optimistic for the time being!
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On February 24 2011 04:54 [-Bluewolf-] wrote:
I've thought about this league for quite some time, and the following is likely the one things that bothers me the most.
This league is mimicking its selection criteria and overall angle very closely to that of the failed Championship Gaming Series. In that league, they hand picked the players that could play, had visual looks and personality count towards the selection (NASL requires video, audio only applications are not allowed...), and focused heavily on a "team spirit" aspect. Furthermore, they made it nearly impossible to break into the league after their first "draft", thus causing a loss of interest from those that might want to aspire to compete in it. The argument was, of course, that the league wanted to build storylines and backgrounds just as in other sports (sound familiar)? Lastly, those that were picked often had contacts with those doing the picking - or basically, the team managers were biased as is human nature to those they knew. This league is also doing picks by what appears to be the league creators - one of which had close ties with EG and the other who has close ties to Fnatic.
The CGS format was nearly universally panned except for those that constantly kept repeating how the community should support it as it was great that so much money was being thrown at e-sports along with the frequent broadcasting. In short, personal feelings of "X should have selected Y" were to be ignored and the public was expected to keep supporting the same hand picked players season after season, some of which had never shown they really belonged there in the first place over others.
In terms of setup, excluding the fact that NASL is skipping putting on a fake qualification event (ie. the CGS combine), I just cannot see the difference. I am ignoring NASL's open qualification event as it is a token 1 spot that seems there just as a weak attempt to legitimize the event (with the bet being one of the 15 "chosen ones" will win by sheer numbers and thus allow the organizers to point out that their players are the best). Even ignoring CGS, the entire invitational model just starts to strangle a community as you cannot build e-sports top-down by only supporting a select elite (In my opinion, Quake 3/LIVE ended up with the same problem of few taking competition as an esport except those constantly invited to invitationals).
I think they should just drop this whole facade of making esports huge and call this what it actually is: an invitational. It isn't meant to inspire the average Joe to play more, it isn't meant to get healthy competition going among the community as a whole, and, heck, it isn't even really "North American". All of this is just my opinion, of course.
Looking forward to continuing to watch the GSL, TSL, and MLG - relatively open qualifications make these events so much more exciting to watch knowing the players proved they belong there.
Yea i think one of the appeals of the gsl to players is "maybe one day i can be there" and they work towards being a better player its exciting to think about even if it is just a pipedream, It really should be called the NAISL (north american Invitational Star league) if they are going to host a 1000 man tournament for 1 person to qualify anyways, why can they just change that 1000 man tournament to the qualifiers for the league, That IS what everyone wants and it wouldnt be that hard to do.
I guarantee both EG and Fnatic will have 5 players each in the tournament at least on the fnatic side of things i dont think that all of their players are good enough to be apart of this besides TT1 who placed second in an MLG and hasnt really done much since who else has had good tournament standings or won anything? Maybe 1 or 2 of their players deserve a spot but because of their close ties with the NASL i could easily see them getting 5 spots. If stuff like this happens it totally makes the league seem illegitimate.
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On February 24 2011 15:35 cheesemaster wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2011 04:54 [-Bluewolf-] wrote:
I've thought about this league for quite some time, and the following is likely the one things that bothers me the most.
This league is mimicking its selection criteria and overall angle very closely to that of the failed Championship Gaming Series. In that league, they hand picked the players that could play, had visual looks and personality count towards the selection (NASL requires video, audio only applications are not allowed...), and focused heavily on a "team spirit" aspect. Furthermore, they made it nearly impossible to break into the league after their first "draft", thus causing a loss of interest from those that might want to aspire to compete in it. The argument was, of course, that the league wanted to build storylines and backgrounds just as in other sports (sound familiar)? Lastly, those that were picked often had contacts with those doing the picking - or basically, the team managers were biased as is human nature to those they knew. This league is also doing picks by what appears to be the league creators - one of which had close ties with EG and the other who has close ties to Fnatic.
The CGS format was nearly universally panned except for those that constantly kept repeating how the community should support it as it was great that so much money was being thrown at e-sports along with the frequent broadcasting. In short, personal feelings of "X should have selected Y" were to be ignored and the public was expected to keep supporting the same hand picked players season after season, some of which had never shown they really belonged there in the first place over others.
In terms of setup, excluding the fact that NASL is skipping putting on a fake qualification event (ie. the CGS combine), I just cannot see the difference. I am ignoring NASL's open qualification event as it is a token 1 spot that seems there just as a weak attempt to legitimize the event (with the bet being one of the 15 "chosen ones" will win by sheer numbers and thus allow the organizers to point out that their players are the best). Even ignoring CGS, the entire invitational model just starts to strangle a community as you cannot build e-sports top-down by only supporting a select elite (In my opinion, Quake 3/LIVE ended up with the same problem of few taking competition as an esport except those constantly invited to invitationals).
I think they should just drop this whole facade of making esports huge and call this what it actually is: an invitational. It isn't meant to inspire the average Joe to play more, it isn't meant to get healthy competition going among the community as a whole, and, heck, it isn't even really "North American". All of this is just my opinion, of course.
Looking forward to continuing to watch the GSL, TSL, and MLG - relatively open qualifications make these events so much more exciting to watch knowing the players proved they belong there. if they are going to host a 1000 man tournament for 1 person to qualify anyways, why can they just change that 1000 man tournament to the qualifiers for the league, That IS what everyone wants and it wouldnt be that hard to do.
Completely disagree, I have no problem with the current set up especially since you have no idea how things are going to turn out. I don't even remotely understand how people can complain as much as they do about the NASL, seems retarded.
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On February 24 2011 15:52 Cathasaigh wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2011 15:35 cheesemaster wrote:On February 24 2011 04:54 [-Bluewolf-] wrote:
I've thought about this league for quite some time, and the following is likely the one things that bothers me the most.
This league is mimicking its selection criteria and overall angle very closely to that of the failed Championship Gaming Series. In that league, they hand picked the players that could play, had visual looks and personality count towards the selection (NASL requires video, audio only applications are not allowed...), and focused heavily on a "team spirit" aspect. Furthermore, they made it nearly impossible to break into the league after their first "draft", thus causing a loss of interest from those that might want to aspire to compete in it. The argument was, of course, that the league wanted to build storylines and backgrounds just as in other sports (sound familiar)? Lastly, those that were picked often had contacts with those doing the picking - or basically, the team managers were biased as is human nature to those they knew. This league is also doing picks by what appears to be the league creators - one of which had close ties with EG and the other who has close ties to Fnatic.
The CGS format was nearly universally panned except for those that constantly kept repeating how the community should support it as it was great that so much money was being thrown at e-sports along with the frequent broadcasting. In short, personal feelings of "X should have selected Y" were to be ignored and the public was expected to keep supporting the same hand picked players season after season, some of which had never shown they really belonged there in the first place over others.
In terms of setup, excluding the fact that NASL is skipping putting on a fake qualification event (ie. the CGS combine), I just cannot see the difference. I am ignoring NASL's open qualification event as it is a token 1 spot that seems there just as a weak attempt to legitimize the event (with the bet being one of the 15 "chosen ones" will win by sheer numbers and thus allow the organizers to point out that their players are the best). Even ignoring CGS, the entire invitational model just starts to strangle a community as you cannot build e-sports top-down by only supporting a select elite (In my opinion, Quake 3/LIVE ended up with the same problem of few taking competition as an esport except those constantly invited to invitationals).
I think they should just drop this whole facade of making esports huge and call this what it actually is: an invitational. It isn't meant to inspire the average Joe to play more, it isn't meant to get healthy competition going among the community as a whole, and, heck, it isn't even really "North American". All of this is just my opinion, of course.
Looking forward to continuing to watch the GSL, TSL, and MLG - relatively open qualifications make these events so much more exciting to watch knowing the players proved they belong there. if they are going to host a 1000 man tournament for 1 person to qualify anyways, why can they just change that 1000 man tournament to the qualifiers for the league, That IS what everyone wants and it wouldnt be that hard to do. Completely disagree, I have no problem with the current set up especially since you have no idea how things are going to turn out. I don't even remotely understand how people can complain as much as they do about the NASL, seems retarded.
Meh i have a problem with them choosing who the best players are, and the fact that EG and Fnatic will pretty much automatically get five seats EG sure they have 5 reasonably good players but Fnatic has maybe one or two that i would consider NASL material. your right though its best just to wait and see how it goes and make an opinion from there, everyone assumed the NASL was going to be similair to the gsl but in north america i think thats why alot of people are voicing some dissapointment. I really dont think anyone would be complaining if they hosted an open tournament and the top 50 players got in, no one is gonna complain about that, but alot of people have problems with invitationals, at least invitational leagues, invitational tournaments are fine but a whole invitational league is a different story.
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On February 24 2011 14:28 Djzapz wrote:And another thing that bothers me, the $250 deposit. What the HELL? First let me put some things on the table. This is Starcraft 2 and it's a game that's essentially played online. In order to be online, you have to have power (pay for it) and have an Internet connection (and pay for it). Now both of those services can go down, as evidenced by the use of the word "unforeseeable". I'll cite it: Show nested quote +every time they're rude or they're late or any kind of unforeseeable problems occur they'll be penalized $25 or $50
This really unnerves me too.
$250 per player? Seriously?
That kind of money should make you uncomfortable.
Yeah they said they're giving it back, but you start collecting $250 from who knows how many people, put it in a bag, and you have a recipe for disaster.
Also, I understand their good will behind this, but this "Be a good boy, or pay $25 or $50" thing kind of reminds me of "Tax it, don't fix it" attitude towards Tabacco related products in US.
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This is really exciting news to me. We need this kind of high funded and mass distributed esports spark in this country. Move us closer to the rest of the world where esports holds a solid foundation in modern culture. Good luck to incontrol and all involved. Cant wait to see some games in my time zone.
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On February 24 2011 16:07 cheesemaster wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2011 15:52 Cathasaigh wrote:On February 24 2011 15:35 cheesemaster wrote:On February 24 2011 04:54 [-Bluewolf-] wrote:
I've thought about this league for quite some time, and the following is likely the one things that bothers me the most.
This league is mimicking its selection criteria and overall angle very closely to that of the failed Championship Gaming Series. In that league, they hand picked the players that could play, had visual looks and personality count towards the selection (NASL requires video, audio only applications are not allowed...), and focused heavily on a "team spirit" aspect. Furthermore, they made it nearly impossible to break into the league after their first "draft", thus causing a loss of interest from those that might want to aspire to compete in it. The argument was, of course, that the league wanted to build storylines and backgrounds just as in other sports (sound familiar)? Lastly, those that were picked often had contacts with those doing the picking - or basically, the team managers were biased as is human nature to those they knew. This league is also doing picks by what appears to be the league creators - one of which had close ties with EG and the other who has close ties to Fnatic.
The CGS format was nearly universally panned except for those that constantly kept repeating how the community should support it as it was great that so much money was being thrown at e-sports along with the frequent broadcasting. In short, personal feelings of "X should have selected Y" were to be ignored and the public was expected to keep supporting the same hand picked players season after season, some of which had never shown they really belonged there in the first place over others.
In terms of setup, excluding the fact that NASL is skipping putting on a fake qualification event (ie. the CGS combine), I just cannot see the difference. I am ignoring NASL's open qualification event as it is a token 1 spot that seems there just as a weak attempt to legitimize the event (with the bet being one of the 15 "chosen ones" will win by sheer numbers and thus allow the organizers to point out that their players are the best). Even ignoring CGS, the entire invitational model just starts to strangle a community as you cannot build e-sports top-down by only supporting a select elite (In my opinion, Quake 3/LIVE ended up with the same problem of few taking competition as an esport except those constantly invited to invitationals).
I think they should just drop this whole facade of making esports huge and call this what it actually is: an invitational. It isn't meant to inspire the average Joe to play more, it isn't meant to get healthy competition going among the community as a whole, and, heck, it isn't even really "North American". All of this is just my opinion, of course.
Looking forward to continuing to watch the GSL, TSL, and MLG - relatively open qualifications make these events so much more exciting to watch knowing the players proved they belong there. if they are going to host a 1000 man tournament for 1 person to qualify anyways, why can they just change that 1000 man tournament to the qualifiers for the league, That IS what everyone wants and it wouldnt be that hard to do. Completely disagree, I have no problem with the current set up especially since you have no idea how things are going to turn out. I don't even remotely understand how people can complain as much as they do about the NASL, seems retarded. Meh i have a problem with them choosing who the best players are, and the fact that EG and Fnatic will pretty much automatically get five seats EG sure they have 5 reasonably good players but Fnatic has maybe one or two that i would consider NASL material. your right though its best just to wait and see how it goes and make an opinion from there, everyone assumed the NASL was going to be similair to the gsl but in north america i think thats why alot of people are voicing some dissapointment. I really dont think anyone would be complaining if they hosted an open tournament and the top 50 players got in, no one is gonna complain about that, but alot of people have problems with invitationals, at least invitational leagues, invitational tournaments are fine but a whole invitational league is a different story.
So you have a problem with the fact that EG might get 5 spots (which I think could be some what justified though 4 maybe more realistic) and the fact that Fnatic might get 5 players (which I highly doubt they will anyways) when there is nothing at the moment suggesting they will. If you want to complain about it after it happens then that's fine but there is no reason to be complaining about most of the things people are complaining about at this stage. It won't hurt anyone to be a little more optimistic and see how things progress before they starting complaining about a ton of what ifs which is what a ton of the responses to the NASL have been so far.
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On February 24 2011 04:54 [-Bluewolf-] wrote:
I've thought about this league for quite some time, and the following is likely the one things that bothers me the most.
This league is mimicking its selection criteria and overall angle very closely to that of the failed Championship Gaming Series. In that league, they hand picked the players that could play, had visual looks and personality count towards the selection (NASL requires video, audio only applications are not allowed...), and focused heavily on a "team spirit" aspect. Furthermore, they made it nearly impossible to break into the league after their first "draft", thus causing a loss of interest from those that might want to aspire to compete in it. The argument was, of course, that the league wanted to build storylines and backgrounds just as in other sports (sound familiar)? Lastly, those that were picked often had contacts with those doing the picking - or basically, the team managers were biased as is human nature to those they knew. This league is also doing picks by what appears to be the league creators - one of which had close ties with EG and the other who has close ties to Fnatic.
The CGS format was nearly universally panned except for those that constantly kept repeating how the community should support it as it was great that so much money was being thrown at e-sports along with the frequent broadcasting. In short, personal feelings of "X should have selected Y" were to be ignored and the public was expected to keep supporting the same hand picked players season after season, some of which had never shown they really belonged there in the first place over others.
In terms of setup, excluding the fact that NASL is skipping putting on a fake qualification event (ie. the CGS combine), I just cannot see the difference. I am ignoring NASL's open qualification event as it is a token 1 spot that seems there just as a weak attempt to legitimize the event (with the bet being one of the 15 "chosen ones" will win by sheer numbers and thus allow the organizers to point out that their players are the best). Even ignoring CGS, the entire invitational model just starts to strangle a community as you cannot build e-sports top-down by only supporting a select elite (In my opinion, Quake 3/LIVE ended up with the same problem of few taking competition as an esport except those constantly invited to invitationals).
I think they should just drop this whole facade of making esports huge and call this what it actually is: an invitational. It isn't meant to inspire the average Joe to play more, it isn't meant to get healthy competition going among the community as a whole, and, heck, it isn't even really "North American". All of this is just my opinion, of course.
Looking forward to continuing to watch the GSL, TSL, and MLG - relatively open qualifications make these events so much more exciting to watch knowing the players proved they belong there.
Pretty awesome post, did some reading up on CGS and yeah if NASL wont heed the warnings of the past i can only see it going the exact same way.
I think the most important thing you write is this:
"Even ignoring CGS, the entire invitational model just starts to strangle a community as you cannot build e-sports top-down by only supporting a select elite." I agree with this on so many levels, you can not decide "this is how the SC2 e-sports scene should look" without support from the players and community, support from below. That is part of what has made Korean Starcraft scene great, it has grown from the bottom up.
If there was support from the community for the 5players/team and this being an invitational i would not see any issue, even if i personally disagree with at least one of thoose things.
Looking at how InControl presents things it is like they are going to build up the western E-sports scene to fit thier vision, and sure they are the guys with the money, but if they put thier own opinions before the majority of the community i think it will fail. Sadly.
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If there are amazing players that aren't on a team why not just get together and make a team? What's that take... a free website with a banner that says "Team College Kid" I will personally sponsor peoples $250.00 refundable cost if they need to make a team and THAT'S the only thing stopping them from getting in.
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Bluewolf wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +On February 24 2011 04:54 [-Bluewolf-] wrote:
I've thought about this league for quite some time, and the following is likely the one things that bothers me the most.
This league is mimicking its selection criteria and overall angle very closely to that of the failed Championship Gaming Series. In that league, they hand picked the players that could play, had visual looks and personality count towards the selection (NASL requires video, audio only applications are not allowed...), and focused heavily on a "team spirit" aspect. Furthermore, they made it nearly impossible to break into the league after their first "draft", thus causing a loss of interest from those that might want to aspire to compete in it. The argument was, of course, that the league wanted to build storylines and backgrounds just as in other sports (sound familiar)? Lastly, those that were picked often had contacts with those doing the picking - or basically, the team managers were biased as is human nature to those they knew. This league is also doing picks by what appears to be the league creators - one of which had close ties with EG and the other who has close ties to Fnatic.
The CGS format was nearly universally panned except for those that constantly kept repeating how the community should support it as it was great that so much money was being thrown at e-sports along with the frequent broadcasting. In short, personal feelings of "X should have selected Y" were to be ignored and the public was expected to keep supporting the same hand picked players season after season, some of which had never shown they really belonged there in the first place over others.
In terms of setup, excluding the fact that NASL is skipping putting on a fake qualification event (ie. the CGS combine), I just cannot see the difference. I am ignoring NASL's open qualification event as it is a token 1 spot that seems there just as a weak attempt to legitimize the event (with the bet being one of the 15 "chosen ones" will win by sheer numbers and thus allow the organizers to point out that their players are the best). Even ignoring CGS, the entire invitational model just starts to strangle a community as you cannot build e-sports top-down by only supporting a select elite (In my opinion, Quake 3/LIVE ended up with the same problem of few taking competition as an esport except those constantly invited to invitationals).
I think they should just drop this whole facade of making esports huge and call this what it actually is: an invitational. It isn't meant to inspire the average Joe to play more, it isn't meant to get healthy competition going among the community as a whole, and, heck, it isn't even really "North American". All of this is just my opinion, of course.
Looking forward to continuing to watch the GSL, TSL, and MLG - relatively open qualifications make these events so much more exciting to watch knowing the players proved they belong there.
Great post. I remember the fail of CGS.
Don't build a league that puts any emphasis on great personalities and back stories. Then it is not a league based purely on skill, and it will be a problem. In fact, that is getting closer to reality tv shit than a sport, and that would be horrible. (one of the many reasons that killed gsl, no respect from the community).
And at this stage the top players change rather quickly. New stars can rise in a matter of month, sure some old stars are there to stay. Anyway, qualifier with only one spot is no good in this situation.
"You may be a better player than the ones we have, but you have a quiet personality and you are not popular in TeamLiquid. Sorry dude, not NASL material.". <- no no no!
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I would not pay anything for the NASL and will only watch any free content from it (if they somehow manage to get some decent players considering how broken their selection system is right now).
InControl seems like quite a douchebag. I don't want to call names on others as well but honestly most of the people who form the "face" of this event are people I can't really respect. InControl thinks that he can be rude and make fun of people and pass that off as a manifestation of the lively and confident personality his inflated ego bestows upon himself. Whereas in truth, he really seems like a selfish person who will not take a stand on principle and contradict himself as per convenience.
Would like to support esports but as things are presently, supporting NASL goes against greater principles of mine.
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On February 24 2011 23:05 WackStr wrote:
I would not pay anything for the NASL and will only watch any free content from it (if they somehow manage to get some decent players considering how broken their selection system is right now).
InControl seems like quite a douchebag. I don't want to call names on others as well but honestly most of the people who form the "face" of this event are people I can't really respect. InControl thinks that he can be rude and make fun of people and pass that off as a manifestation of the lively and confident personality his inflated ego bestows upon himself. Whereas in truth, he really seems like a selfish person who will not take a stand on principle and contradict himself as per convenience.
Would like to support esports but as things are presently, supporting NASL goes against greater principles of mine.
You sir are 150% wrong about IncontroL. he ONLY makes fun of his close friends for the most part and his close friends find it funny. he is absolutely professional when it comes to his coaching and his casting of this event. It will be fine. Day9 has does some unprofessional things (see airplanes), artosis has (see his new show and his post history pre GSL), Tasteless has does unprofessional things (see his filler moments in his casting). You cannot say anything bad about incontrol's professional attitude for his humor on casual occasions.
to repeat again, the only thing i have wrong with NASL is the selection process. If you are going to have a selection instead of earning the part make it so that 20 players earn their way in and 30 are given it (at 3 per team). But don't cap players per team. so that if Liquid says okay, TLO, HUK, JINRO you guys get our liquislots, Haypro, Ret you guys definitely can earn your way in so you guys get to liquicompete for the liqui-openslots. they can still get 5 in. (sorry for the team liquid jokes but i actually couldn't help it)
and then have it so the bottom placing players (bottom 4 from every group) are not given a spot next season and have to earn it back in the qualifiers. so the bottom 40% becomes the top placing players in the quals and the top 60% become the team representatives.
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On February 24 2011 12:27 RPizzle wrote:
As someone who really enjoys spectating SC2 more than playing (being a low diamond scrub), I have to say that something is terribly wrong in any league that doesn't base its competition on the merits of the players. GSL had three open tournaments which allowed for seeding the players who deserved their spots into Code S&A. NASL seems to have an arbitrary selection process which is guaranteed to disenfranchise worthy players. Requiring a team in a game which is designed around, and rewards individual skill, seems ludicrous. Also, what point is there in limiting the number of Korean players if they are willing to come over, and have the talent to be in the Top 50? Since when have we used race as a metric for qualification? Not to mention, the competing interests of the members of NASL will automatically cast a shadow of doubt on any selection process short of a true and fair seeding tournament.
NASL though, does strike me though, as something uniquely American. SC2 simply isn't Xtreme enough to have the actual best players facing off against one another. Instead, the purity of the sport will be left by the wayside so that we can have manufactured story lines and team drama. I mean, if you like the WWF or the XFL, as opposed to wrestling or football then that might just be your thing. I don't mean to denigrate story lines or drama as a bad thing necessarily, but they should never take precedence over a fair and judicious system for the players. The solution for the NASL is simple, however. They just need to add an "I", for "Invitational".
Pretty much sums up my thoughts as well. I will be giving NASL a small chance, but I don't like the selection process at all. I like GSL because of the sheer difficulty and straightforwardness it took to qualify. NASL sounds like it will have players who are simply there because they are on a team, and other players simply left out because they have no team, have to good/big of a team, or they are just Korean. It is basically a highly protected league where they are betting that they will be able to use these arbitrary and unfair rules to make it more popular. Which I have no interest in, WWF like you said and all.
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On February 24 2011 02:29 KDN wrote:
Football teams have a certain amount of players on the field, so does soccer, basketball, hockey, etc.
This is about creating idols that you can follow over several seasons.
This is just an absurd comparison, those are team games. SC is one vs. one.
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I think you guys are overeacting on the league being invite only. I'm sure theese guys wont just pick any old player they want this league to be the best so in turn they will pick the best. I don't believe it says anywhere that if a player doesn't have a team he can't compete but only that they would prefer people to have a team.
I think we all need to get behind this for the good of western e-sports. If this fails I can't see anyone else trying somthing this massive in a long long time.
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On February 25 2011 03:53 Castrophy wrote:
I think you guys are overeacting on the league being invite only. I'm sure theese guys wont just pick any old player they want this league to be the best so in turn they will pick the best. I don't believe it says anywhere that if a player doesn't have a team he can't compete but only that they would prefer people to have a team.
I think we all need to get behind this for the good of western e-sports. If this fails I can't see anyone else trying somthing this massive in a long long time.
Well they said they want to find a "world champion". At least that's what they said. An invite tournament doesn't even come close to finding a world champion. It finds the person who's going to win the tournament
Imo, invitationals are hardly legitimate tournaments. They're very expensive showmatches.
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On February 25 2011 00:52 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2011 23:05 WackStr wrote:
I would not pay anything for the NASL and will only watch any free content from it (if they somehow manage to get some decent players considering how broken their selection system is right now).
InControl seems like quite a douchebag. I don't want to call names on others as well but honestly most of the people who form the "face" of this event are people I can't really respect. InControl thinks that he can be rude and make fun of people and pass that off as a manifestation of the lively and confident personality his inflated ego bestows upon himself. Whereas in truth, he really seems like a selfish person who will not take a stand on principle and contradict himself as per convenience.
Would like to support esports but as things are presently, supporting NASL goes against greater principles of mine. You sir are 150% wrong about IncontroL. he ONLY makes fun of his close friends for the most part and his close friends find it funny. he is absolutely professional when it comes to his coaching and his casting of this event. It will be fine. Day9 has does some unprofessional things (see airplanes), artosis has (see his new show and his post history pre GSL), Tasteless has does unprofessional things (see his filler moments in his casting). You cannot say anything bad about incontrol's professional attitude for his humor on casual occasions. to repeat again, the only thing i have wrong with NASL is the selection process. If you are going to have a selection instead of earning the part make it so that 20 players earn their way in and 30 are given it (at 3 per team). But don't cap players per team. so that if Liquid says okay, TLO, HUK, JINRO you guys get our liquislots, Haypro, Ret you guys definitely can earn your way in so you guys get to liquicompete for the liqui-openslots. they can still get 5 in. (sorry for the team liquid jokes but i actually couldn't help it) and then have it so the bottom placing players (bottom 4 from every group) are not given a spot next season and have to earn it back in the qualifiers. so the bottom 40% becomes the top placing players in the quals and the top 60% become the team representatives.
Well he might make fun of his friends only but he has shown that he can pretend to be someone really professional (representing NASL) and then show such base behavior. Your comparison with Artosis, Tasteless and Day9 is invalid. Firstly, regarding Day9's airplane episode, that was something from his personal life - it wasn't like he was streaming a pirated copy of something or restreaming something with ads. Secondly, he is not pretending to be someone professional at a level where he needs to subject himself to standards that he can't upkeep - which is the case for inControl. As for Artosis and Tasteless, your allegations are baseless since you didn't give a concrete example. Even if they said something like "shit" etc, that can pass as a slip up that happens at all levels of commentary at times, but is not at all equivalent to not upholding principle integrity as regards to professionalism - something that InControl is guilty of. This goes beyond him being humorous.
And yea I agree with you selection sucks.
Finally, what many of my friends think is that besides the earlier complaint I mentioned, InControl always likes being confrontational when he is casting - always trying to target and attack people or coming off as an uptight tool (highly critical etc). Many other casters, tastosis, Day9, husky etc although critical of the other person, are at the same time friendly with the audience. It is a subtle point but it does have a subliminally significant affect on the quality of the cast.
That said, I do hope NASL turns out to be a success and is produced professionally and at a commendable standard.
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On February 25 2011 03:53 Castrophy wrote:
I think you guys are overeacting on the league being invite only. I'm sure theese guys wont just pick any old player they want this league to be the best so in turn they will pick the best.
How can you objectively determine the top 50 players at this moment in time? Especially when you interact with some top players far more often than others? You can't. Hence why it isn't a legitimate event as the best players are not there, and people don't strive to become one of those 50 as there is no guarantee they will be noticed even if they develop the talent.
On February 25 2011 03:53 Castrophy wrote:
I think we all need to get behind this for the good of western e-sports. If this fails I can't see anyone else trying somthing this massive in a long long time.
You are right on their being consequences: NY Times article about what happened to the CGS players after their e-sports died from the league folding. Since this, talks of e-sports on American TV have drastically died down, moving more to a reality TV approach (WCG Ultimate Gamer and The Tester) as it did spook investors. You are wrong about supporting a bad league - a lesson those involved in CGS eventually realized. All of the fake support in the world won't cause a league to explode, rather, a league willing to accept and improve from criticism is what will make a good product and experience that others want to become a part of.
That isn't to say everyone's opinion is right - heck, mine might be completely incorrect as well. No one has a right to dictate exactly how the league should be run or what they should do with their money - all I can do is offer feedback. It is up to league to compile such feedback, determine what is valid and reasonable, and act accordingly to best grow their business. Basically - criticism should be welcome, albeit the personal / derogatory attacks I have seen against iNcontrol and the league as a whole are not something that should be encouraged or supported. That type of thing does serve no real purpose.
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On February 23 2011 16:58 cheesemaster wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 12:16 MattyClutch wrote:On February 23 2011 10:20 cheesemaster wrote:On February 23 2011 10:07 Phanekim wrote:
this thing needs tv exposure. not just streaming.
being the psuedo businessman....try to have a professional layout so you can record and establish a video library. you can always show this on g4 or something. but from what i've learned...g4 is on the way out. however, g4 is perfect for sc just like spike is perfect for ufc. but g4 lost its direct tv contract. we'll see.
i am my assessment is that this will fail. i hate to be a downer but i give it 35 40 pct of sucess beyond season 4. Yea i could see the premium service covering the prize pool but there are so many other expenses i couldnt really see this going beyond season 4 just on the internet, gom got a tv deal for code s with anibox im sure that has really helped them out. The prize pool also seems quite high they should have started it out at 60k it still would have attracted a huge number of players. I really cant see a nearly all online tournament being able to generate anywhere near the same revenue as the gsl or even get on tv in this format. Change it to an all offline format and have qualifiers and this could really be a top tier tournament, i would support it 100% Well when they are budgeted for 3 years so they have plenty of time to work out a functional format, why start small? they are budgeted for three seasons, wich will most likely occur over the course of a year or maybe a bit more im assuming, after listening to sotg and hearing they do have sponsors who havent been announced yet im not so worried about that. Liquidtyler pretty much expressed all of my concerns on state of the game, ive always liked him and respect his opinions. I think they are way too worried about collusion though. Honestly if they had qualifiers and did it in a similair format to the gsl this wouldnt be a problem tyler suggested this briefly but russ and incontrol seem pretty stuck on this format. Like tyler said though this format will pretty much ruin team growth, if the nasl becomes a top tier tournament that everyone wants to participate in, why would a good player want to join a team who had all their spots filled for the NASL this is going to mean more teams competing for sponsors meaning the sponsorship for esports will be spread alot thinner teams are already having trouble finding sponsors i can only see it getting worse if 5 man teams become the norm for north america, You want bigger more elite teams not small diluted teams. =( Its convenient for the NASL to do it this way but not so convenient for e-sports
I ment to say 3 seasons no idea why I put 3 years. Anyway all I was just saying they have enough to fix anything on a second and third go around. I.e. if <X> isn't working out right this time they can change it before season 2. They have some room for error and experimentation.
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On February 25 2011 03:53 Castrophy wrote:
I think you guys are overeacting on the league being invite only. I'm sure theese guys wont just pick any old player they want this league to be the best so in turn they will pick the best. I don't believe it says anywhere that if a player doesn't have a team he can't compete but only that they would prefer people to have a team.
I don't think we are overreacting whatsoever. The league will not be respected if the selection process is seen as arbitrary or biased. It is that simple.
The FAQ on NASL.tv clearly states that you must be on a team.
I think we all need to get behind this for the good of western e-sports. If this fails I can't see anyone else trying somthing this massive in a long long time.
We should only get behind it if it appears that it is going to be something that will benefit E-Sports in America. Frankly, everything that has been released so far makes me skeptical that this thing will really create a positive outcome. Therefore I don't want this to be the "One shot" for American E-Sports due to these reservations:
Unfair selection system:
50 people are chosen via some sort of selection committee. How much does anyone want to bet that the metric for deciding who gets in will not be publicly available?
There is a team requirement. This directly contradicts creating a "World Champion" because team membership has no bearing on one's eligibility towards being in the "Top 50". Excluding potential "Top 50" members based on such a rule clearly undercuts the premise. This also includes limiting the number of players who can participate in a given team. If a team is stacked with the very best players in the world, should they really be excluded?
Limitation of participation based on race. By allowing only a couple Koreans, well, this couldn't be more obvious. To be honest, I don't even think this is legal.
Lack of live broadcasting:
They directly damage much of their purpose due to this. In a league which is trying to emphasize the interaction of players, storyline, and the "drama" created by pitting teams against each other, who really thinks that a day delay helps that? How many of us as kids would try to race commercials to go to the bathroom so that we wouldn't miss anything during a football or hockey game? How many of us now have DVRs, and we tape the same games never to watch them?
My point is that live broadcasts create immersion and an opportunity for interaction. If you stay up for GSL there are sure to be tons of people typing away on TeamLiquid, /v/, or on GOM's chat/forums. This interaction brings the community together, and allows a large group to comment and share an experience as it happens. It also allows real feedback between the community and the casters, as Tasteosis takes questions to match winners, Day[9] has a Q&A, and TL streamers banter about random topics with their fans.
I grant that some people don't care in the slightest about this aspect. However, my contention is that when trying to appease potential customers, one needs to take into consideration that a large number of people do in fact care. Not to mention, MLG, Dreamhack, and GSL are all live. Yes, there are issues that arise from having a live format, but on balance it is minor in comparison. The "gold standard" is already set, and that is live broadcasting. Who here would rather Day[9] just released VODs instead of doing live dailies?
The emphasis on enhancing the videos etc. while creating a delay seems to cause a window dressing (production values) to come at the expense of substance (group interactivity). I think this is horrible, on balance. Why not do both like GSL? This would make both sides happy. Even if it has lower production value live, there are benefits that I feel are being ignored.
Some may say that it isn't fair to compare NASL to GSL because it is already established, but I disagree. NASL has had time to see how the other systems are run and distill that knowledge into something workable.
Questions regarding the interests of league management who are also members of participating teams:
The title is overly long, but the issue is going to be very contentious. Personally, I did not like the fact that Artosis participated in Season 1 of GSL because he was working for the company doing the tournament. I already understand that those things couldn't have been more different, but we must look at this as a business. Why do you think that businesses which offer contests and rewards normally exclude their own employees from winning? It is to prevent any perception of impropriety should someone win who is on their payroll.
The issue with Artosis both casting and playing seems rather minor compared to the conflicts of interest involved in the NASL. The spokesperson of the league, who also will be primary caster and is involved in the league's management and inception should not be allowed to participate as a player in the same league. End of.
This will dip back into the first issue, but are members of Fnatic, EG, Gosu Coaching, or any other group (or their friends) going to have a hand in the selection process for competitors? This is going to be a huge issue, as the lack of a fair and judicious seeding tournament will put a huge magnifying glass on how selections are made. Unless the process is perfectly transparent, then valid objections to the selection process can be, and likely will be raised. This, I feel above all, is the most important issue that needs to be addressed. The legitimacy of the league in the eyes of the spectators, participants, and fans is the foundation of everything that is trying to be accomplished.
I agree though with the OP in that I think if this does fail, then it will really screw US E-Sports for a very long time. Most of us skeptics are simply concerned, and I believe that those concerns are justified.
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Lack of live broadcasting:
They directly damage much of their purpose due to this. In a league which is trying to emphasize the interaction of players, storyline, and the "drama" created by pitting teams against each other, who really thinks that a day delay helps that? How many of us as kids would try to race commercials to go to the bathroom so that we wouldn't miss anything during a football or hockey game? How many of us now have DVRs, and we tape the same games never to watch them?
My point is that live broadcasts create immersion and an opportunity for interaction. If you stay up for GSL there are sure to be tons of people typing away on TeamLiquid, /v/, or on GOM's chat/forums. This interaction brings the community together, and allows a large group to comment and share an experience as it happens. It also allows real feedback between the community and the casters, as Tasteosis takes questions to match winners, Day[9] has a Q&A, and TL streamers banter about random topics with their fans.
I agree. I've never liked the artificial feel of it. Big VODs being streamed just feels like an inconvenient version of youtube.
Some may say that it isn't fair to compare NASL to GSL because it is already established, but I disagree. NASL has had time to see how the other systems are run and distill that knowledge into something workable.
At first, I thought of NASL as a North American GSL (before any details were announced). Turns out it's just a big online invitational with above-average stakes. What do those 2 have in common besides a big prize pool?
-GSL did NOT limit the number of foreigners that could play (how unethical would that be!)
-GSL is a true tournament, not an invitational
-GSL was impartial and didn't (directly) favor people with teams
-GSL is offline and has spectators in the studio
-GSL doesn't require the players to potentially lose up to $250 if their Internet connection crashed
-GSL is LIVE
-GSL is run like a proper business
-GSL does not frequently have lag boxes popping up
Also, I can't think of a way for them to produce something that makes sense of the prize pool. Certainly, it won't be achieved with a small desk and a greenscreen. It seems to me like this is a big cash cow for *some* players, more so than it's an actual funnel to find the best player. Whoever wins, it won't feel legitimate to me as so many potential winners will be left out entirely.
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On February 25 2011 09:26 RPizzle wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2011 03:53 Castrophy wrote:
I think you guys are overeacting on the league being invite only. I'm sure theese guys wont just pick any old player they want this league to be the best so in turn they will pick the best. I don't believe it says anywhere that if a player doesn't have a team he can't compete but only that they would prefer people to have a team. I don't think we are overreacting whatsoever. The league will not be respected if the selection process is seen as arbitrary or biased. It is that simple. The FAQ on NASL.tv clearly states that you must be on a team. Show nested quote +I think we all need to get behind this for the good of western e-sports. If this fails I can't see anyone else trying somthing this massive in a long long time. We should only get behind it if it appears that it is going to be something that will benefit E-Sports in America. Frankly, everything that has been released so far makes me skeptical that this thing will really create a positive outcome. Therefore I don't want this to be the "One shot" for American E-Sports due to these reservations: Unfair selection system:50 people are chosen via some sort of selection committee. How much does anyone want to bet that the metric for deciding who gets in will not be publicly available? There is a team requirement. This directly contradicts creating a "World Champion" because team membership has no bearing on one's eligibility towards being in the "Top 50". Excluding potential "Top 50" members based on such a rule clearly undercuts the premise. This also includes limiting the number of players who can participate in a given team. If a team is stacked with the very best players in the world, should they really be excluded? Limitation of participation based on race. By allowing only a couple Koreans, well, this couldn't be more obvious. To be honest, I don't even think this is legal. Lack of live broadcasting: They directly damage much of their purpose due to this. In a league which is trying to emphasize the interaction of players, storyline, and the "drama" created by pitting teams against each other, who really thinks that a day delay helps that? How many of us as kids would try to race commercials to go to the bathroom so that we wouldn't miss anything during a football or hockey game? How many of us now have DVRs, and we tape the same games never to watch them? My point is that live broadcasts create immersion and an opportunity for interaction. If you stay up for GSL there are sure to be tons of people typing away on TeamLiquid, /v/, or on GOM's chat/forums. This interaction brings the community together, and allows a large group to comment and share an experience as it happens. It also allows real feedback between the community and the casters, as Tasteosis takes questions to match winners, Day[9] has a Q&A, and TL streamers banter about random topics with their fans. I grant that some people don't care in the slightest about this aspect. However, my contention is that when trying to appease potential customers, one needs to take into consideration that a large number of people do in fact care. Not to mention, MLG, Dreamhack, and GSL are all live. Yes, there are issues that arise from having a live format, but on balance it is minor in comparison. The "gold standard" is already set, and that is live broadcasting. Who here would rather Day[9] just released VODs instead of doing live dailies? The emphasis on enhancing the videos etc. while creating a delay seems to cause a window dressing (production values) to come at the expense of substance (group interactivity). I think this is horrible, on balance. Why not do both like GSL? This would make both sides happy. Even if it has lower production value live, there are benefits that I feel are being ignored. Some may say that it isn't fair to compare NASL to GSL because it is already established, but I disagree. NASL has had time to see how the other systems are run and distill that knowledge into something workable. Questions regarding the interests of league management who are also members of participating teams:The title is overly long, but the issue is going to be very contentious. Personally, I did not like the fact that Artosis participated in Season 1 of GSL because he was working for the company doing the tournament. I already understand that those things couldn't have been more different, but we must look at this as a business. Why do you think that businesses which offer contests and rewards normally exclude their own employees from winning? It is to prevent any perception of impropriety should someone win who is on their payroll. The issue with Artosis both casting and playing seems rather minor compared to the conflicts of interest involved in the NASL. The spokesperson of the league, who also will be primary caster and is involved in the league's management and inception should not be allowed to participate as a player in the same league. End of. This will dip back into the first issue, but are members of Fnatic, EG, Gosu Coaching, or any other group (or their friends) going to have a hand in the selection process for competitors? This is going to be a huge issue, as the lack of a fair and judicious seeding tournament will put a huge magnifying glass on how selections are made. Unless the process is perfectly transparent, then valid objections to the selection process can be, and likely will be raised. This, I feel above all, is the most important issue that needs to be addressed. The legitimacy of the league in the eyes of the spectators, participants, and fans is the foundation of everything that is trying to be accomplished. I agree though with the OP in that I think if this does fail, then it will really screw US E-Sports for a very long time. Most of us skeptics are simply concerned, and I believe that those concerns are justified.
The reason (as I understand it) for it being steamed later is to 1) add to the production value and 2) because this is online. Because it is online people could easily cheat if it was casted lived. This seems very reasonable to me. Would you rather wait a bit or have people cheat? Plus the whole community aspect is still there. Everyone is watching it "live" at the same time as if it was live. I don't really see a difference.
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IMO it is a terrible policy to place a cap on the number of koreans that can play. This communicates to the casual viewers the obvious skill differential that requires such a rule to be in place.
I think the koreans should either be welcomed without restriction or banned outright (based on citizenship requirements)
Scenario 1: Koreans allowed without restriction cause the equivalent of GSL Code A in the NASL with perhaps more natives in the mix
Scenario 2: Koreans completely banned create a north american only tournament
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Ok....I haven't posted here but I think I understand the idea behind NASL.
They are trying to emulate American team sports. This is why there is such a strong emphasis on team only players. I know Incontrol mentioned he's played football in the past so I think he is drawing his ideas for a professional league from that sport. Consider the NASL is a longer season type format with the top players from the season advancing to a playoffs. Also in SotG I heard Russel answer a criticism about the selection process saying something to the extent of "That isn't how the NBA works". These players are being selected by a "drafting" system. Sound familar?
They are trying to emulate physical team sports too much. Starcraft is a 1v1, INDIVIDUAL, game. I really think this selection process will be the death of the NASL. People will lose interest once it's established they have no chance of getting into the league unless they have a team, and the teams will become EXTREMELY hard to get into once players get established into them.
I really really want this to succeed, but make it a level playing field. A frat of teams and players is going to be established and it will be nearly impossible to get into that once it's established
If White-Ra is left off this roster or not invited simply because he has no affiliation with a team that is absolutely laughable and ruins and legitimacy this league was trying to build
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On February 25 2011 11:38 1800STFU wrote:
Ok....I haven't posted here but I think I understand the idea behind NASL.
They are trying to emulate American team sports. This is why there is such a strong emphasis on team only players. I know Incontrol mentioned he's played football in the past so I think he is drawing his ideas for a professional league from that sport. Consider the NASL is a longer season type format with the top players from the season advancing to a playoffs. Also in SotG I heard Russel answer a criticism about the selection process saying something to the extent of "That isn't how the NBA works". These players are being selected by a "drafting" system. Sound familar?
They are trying to emulate physical team sports too much. Starcraft is a 1v1, INDIVIDUAL, game. I really think this selection process will be the death of the NASL. People will lose interest once it's established they have no chance of getting into the league unless they have a team, and the teams will become EXTREMELY hard to get into once players get established into them.
I really really want this to succeed, but make it a level playing field. A frat of teams and players is going to be established and it will be nearly impossible to get into that once it's established
If White-Ra is left off this roster or not invited simply because he has no affiliation with a team that is absolutely laughable and ruins and legitimacy this league was trying to build
I am not 100% on this but I didn't think team membership was a requirement. Or at the very least you could just go "Yeah I am TEAM BOB" and that the team bits that were in there were just to dole out how they were going to cap teams to the # of divisions and then spread out the team mates to prevent one player taking a dive for the other.
The OP says "not sure if the team has to meet some set level of sponsorship/notoriety" so sounds like he isn't sure either, so who knows.
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On February 25 2011 12:02 MattyClutch wrote:
[
I am not 100% on this but I didn't think team membership was a requirement. Or at the very least you could just go "Yeah I am TEAM BOB" and that the team bits that were in there were just to dole out how they were going to cap teams to the # of divisions and then spread out the team mates to prevent one player taking a dive for the other.
The OP says "not sure if the team has to meet some set level of sponsorship/notoriety" so sounds like he isn't sure either, so who knows.
Thanks for that clarification.
Just with things I've heard along with what they said on SotG it seems they are slanting heavily towards a sponsored team requirement.
Russel even said that NBA thing specificly when White-Ra was brought up, and he is the mastermind behind the NASL. That alone makes me very skeptical.
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iNcontroL is race picking going to be allowed in NASL? If so what would you do for people with incompatible matchups? If not what would happen to plays who wanted to completely switch race over the 12 week period/finals period? Will they be forced to the 1 race?
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On February 25 2011 12:02 MattyClutch wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2011 11:38 1800STFU wrote:
Ok....I haven't posted here but I think I understand the idea behind NASL.
They are trying to emulate American team sports. This is why there is such a strong emphasis on team only players. I know Incontrol mentioned he's played football in the past so I think he is drawing his ideas for a professional league from that sport. Consider the NASL is a longer season type format with the top players from the season advancing to a playoffs. Also in SotG I heard Russel answer a criticism about the selection process saying something to the extent of "That isn't how the NBA works". These players are being selected by a "drafting" system. Sound familar?
They are trying to emulate physical team sports too much. Starcraft is a 1v1, INDIVIDUAL, game. I really think this selection process will be the death of the NASL. People will lose interest once it's established they have no chance of getting into the league unless they have a team, and the teams will become EXTREMELY hard to get into once players get established into them.
I really really want this to succeed, but make it a level playing field. A frat of teams and players is going to be established and it will be nearly impossible to get into that once it's established
If White-Ra is left off this roster or not invited simply because he has no affiliation with a team that is absolutely laughable and ruins and legitimacy this league was trying to build
I am not 100% on this but I didn't think team membership was a requirement. Or at the very least you could just go "Yeah I am TEAM BOB" and that the team bits that were in there were just to dole out how they were going to cap teams to the # of divisions and then spread out the team mates to prevent one player taking a dive for the other. The OP says "not sure if the team has to meet some set level of sponsorship/notoriety" so sounds like he isn't sure either, so who knows.
From NASL FAQ "How do I apply to be in the NASL?": You must be on a team, must be available to travel to the main event, must be able to play on the NA server.
This is followed up by a questionnaire with questions such as: "Who do you consider your rival?" and "What makes you stand out from other players?"
From SotG, it seems that they want people who are on "Real" teams. However, Liquid Tyler seemed reticent to approve the system that was being discussed, as he lampooned it by saying that Team Liquid can just form Team Gaseous to get around the arbitrary 5-man team cap.
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On February 25 2011 10:35 MattyClutch wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2011 09:26 RPizzle wrote:On February 25 2011 03:53 Castrophy wrote:
I think you guys are overeacting on the league being invite only. I'm sure theese guys wont just pick any old player they want this league to be the best so in turn they will pick the best. I don't believe it says anywhere that if a player doesn't have a team he can't compete but only that they would prefer people to have a team. I don't think we are overreacting whatsoever. The league will not be respected if the selection process is seen as arbitrary or biased. It is that simple. The FAQ on NASL.tv clearly states that you must be on a team. I think we all need to get behind this for the good of western e-sports. If this fails I can't see anyone else trying somthing this massive in a long long time. We should only get behind it if it appears that it is going to be something that will benefit E-Sports in America. Frankly, everything that has been released so far makes me skeptical that this thing will really create a positive outcome. Therefore I don't want this to be the "One shot" for American E-Sports due to these reservations: Unfair selection system:50 people are chosen via some sort of selection committee. How much does anyone want to bet that the metric for deciding who gets in will not be publicly available? There is a team requirement. This directly contradicts creating a "World Champion" because team membership has no bearing on one's eligibility towards being in the "Top 50". Excluding potential "Top 50" members based on such a rule clearly undercuts the premise. This also includes limiting the number of players who can participate in a given team. If a team is stacked with the very best players in the world, should they really be excluded? Limitation of participation based on race. By allowing only a couple Koreans, well, this couldn't be more obvious. To be honest, I don't even think this is legal. Lack of live broadcasting: They directly damage much of their purpose due to this. In a league which is trying to emphasize the interaction of players, storyline, and the "drama" created by pitting teams against each other, who really thinks that a day delay helps that? How many of us as kids would try to race commercials to go to the bathroom so that we wouldn't miss anything during a football or hockey game? How many of us now have DVRs, and we tape the same games never to watch them? My point is that live broadcasts create immersion and an opportunity for interaction. If you stay up for GSL there are sure to be tons of people typing away on TeamLiquid, /v/, or on GOM's chat/forums. This interaction brings the community together, and allows a large group to comment and share an experience as it happens. It also allows real feedback between the community and the casters, as Tasteosis takes questions to match winners, Day[9] has a Q&A, and TL streamers banter about random topics with their fans. I grant that some people don't care in the slightest about this aspect. However, my contention is that when trying to appease potential customers, one needs to take into consideration that a large number of people do in fact care. Not to mention, MLG, Dreamhack, and GSL are all live. Yes, there are issues that arise from having a live format, but on balance it is minor in comparison. The "gold standard" is already set, and that is live broadcasting. Who here would rather Day[9] just released VODs instead of doing live dailies? The emphasis on enhancing the videos etc. while creating a delay seems to cause a window dressing (production values) to come at the expense of substance (group interactivity). I think this is horrible, on balance. Why not do both like GSL? This would make both sides happy. Even if it has lower production value live, there are benefits that I feel are being ignored. Some may say that it isn't fair to compare NASL to GSL because it is already established, but I disagree. NASL has had time to see how the other systems are run and distill that knowledge into something workable. Questions regarding the interests of league management who are also members of participating teams:The title is overly long, but the issue is going to be very contentious. Personally, I did not like the fact that Artosis participated in Season 1 of GSL because he was working for the company doing the tournament. I already understand that those things couldn't have been more different, but we must look at this as a business. Why do you think that businesses which offer contests and rewards normally exclude their own employees from winning? It is to prevent any perception of impropriety should someone win who is on their payroll. The issue with Artosis both casting and playing seems rather minor compared to the conflicts of interest involved in the NASL. The spokesperson of the league, who also will be primary caster and is involved in the league's management and inception should not be allowed to participate as a player in the same league. End of. This will dip back into the first issue, but are members of Fnatic, EG, Gosu Coaching, or any other group (or their friends) going to have a hand in the selection process for competitors? This is going to be a huge issue, as the lack of a fair and judicious seeding tournament will put a huge magnifying glass on how selections are made. Unless the process is perfectly transparent, then valid objections to the selection process can be, and likely will be raised. This, I feel above all, is the most important issue that needs to be addressed. The legitimacy of the league in the eyes of the spectators, participants, and fans is the foundation of everything that is trying to be accomplished. I agree though with the OP in that I think if this does fail, then it will really screw US E-Sports for a very long time. Most of us skeptics are simply concerned, and I believe that those concerns are justified. The reason (as I understand it) for it being steamed later is to 1) add to the production value and 2) because this is online. Because it is online people could easily cheat if it was casted lived. This seems very reasonable to me. Would you rather wait a bit or have people cheat? Plus the whole community aspect is still there. Everyone is watching it "live" at the same time as if it was live. I don't really see a difference.
The reason (as I understand it) for it being steamed later is to 1) add to the production value and 2) because this is online.
I do not disagree with you, as I had suggested in my prior post that a happy medium could be having an unfinished live broadcast to record the audio/video, then release the VODs the next day post-production.
Because it is online people could easily cheat if it was casted lived. This seems very reasonable to me. Would you rather wait a bit or have people cheat?
I must agree that with the chosen online format, your point is valid. Though, I still think it is less than optimal. Ghosting is a significant issue, and I am not aware of a particularly good way to avoid it in live online matches.
However, you have created a false dichotomy in your question. I would rather NASL have gone down the path of a truly live event such as MLG and the GSL, as an online league is always going to create issues that wouldn't happen at a LAN event. The online format is a blunder in my opinion, which can be exacerbated by having teams. While tape delay does solve ghosting, at a high cost in my opinion, there are more issues that are created.
What stops a team from using a ringer? If someone has the best TvT on a given team, wouldn't it be prudent for the members to have him log into their account and give it a go, since it could make them much more money if they split? It would behoove a team to try to get everyone into the money rounds. Unlike online leagues such as ESEA or CEVO which use their own servers, everything will be on Blizzard's. I can't be certain, but I doubt Blizzard will share the personal IP addresses of the players with NASL staff.
It goes without saying that backseat playing will be an issue as well. Having someone or even a team watching over a player's shoulder and providing advice is unavoidable in an online format. There is no way to control the playing environment, therefore there will always be that cloud hanging over it. It is somewhat ironic that on a SotG, I recall talk about how someone could hear a commentator while playing at a live event, and that it could ruin the legitimacy of a whole tournament. Yet, the current format is by far the most liable to be abused.
Plus the whole community aspect is still there. Everyone is watching it "live" at the same time as if it was live. I don't really see a difference.
I understand the point made, but I disagree. I think that there is a qualitative difference between watching something live and something pre-recorded. I had used examples above in which there were interactions that occur on various forums based on the live presentation of GSL. We won't have excited posts as people go crazy over baneling bombs, a failed push, or a mothership rush half way through a game.
Posts such as "Did you guys just see that <insert high level play>?" will no longer exist. Instead, people will watch the game and comment. I think this point may be difficult to get across, as there is an intangible sense of community that is created through this, which is not the same when watching replays, and the sentiment is not shared by everyone.
Though, more concrete examples were provided in dealing with casters, such as how you could ask players questions in GSL when they win. Artosis has said nearly every iteration of the word Grack because of it. Like I said with people who comment on peoples' TL streams, it allows for a real time dialogue to occur between the casters and the spectators.
While I do appear to be very critical of the NASL, it is out of a deep appreciation for E-Sports. I would much rather it succeed. However, I am very hesitant to support it because despite having so much money thrown at it, it is set up in a manner that appears inferior to the extant leagues, and has the potential to dive bomb the whole American E-Sports scene if it fails.
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I don't even watch any sports live or otherwise, but still think they should consider it being a live production, or delayed by an hour at most. When someone wins the $100k, what are they supposed to do? Stay away from TL and twitter for a day, hiding their excitement and not telling anybody? results will inevitably get leaked out, and 24 hours later just loses the immersive feeling that previous posts have described better than I can.
I'm also not liking the focus on teams. SC2 is not a team sport and GSL's system of qualifiers is more appropriate I think.
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On February 25 2011 14:47 dar0za wrote:
I don't even watch any sports live or otherwise, but still think they should consider it being a live production, or delayed by an hour at most. When someone wins the $100k, what are they supposed to do? Stay away from TL and twitter for a day, hiding their excitement and not telling anybody? results will inevitably get leaked out, and 24 hours later just loses the immersive feeling that previous posts have described better than I can.
I'm also not liking the focus on teams. SC2 is not a team sport and GSL's system of qualifiers is more appropriate I think.
The last 16 will be an offline Lan Event that will be broadcast Live I believe.
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The Haterade being dumped on the NASL is really blowing my mind.
Just a few points:
1. There's no such thing as a perfect selection process. Opens might be the best, but NASL has decided they want to push a team format, which is their decision to make. If it really bombs it wouldn't be that incredibly hard to revert to an open system.
2. They can't cast the damn thing live. The integrity of the league's games has to take precedent over everything. There CAN'T be a CHANCE that someone is looking at the stream. In a game like SC2 with imperfect information, a chance of stream cheating potentially turns a great scout pattern and game sense into OMFG SCREEN LOOKING BANBANBAN. I remember in the HDH idrA ran this unbelievable scout pattern vs Orb and found a proxy stargate. If someone didn't know for a fact that Idra was playing legit, they could have been sure it was cheating.
3. While INcontrol is obviously a big part of NASL's production regarding streaming and casting, there's no reason to believe that he will be a decision maker as far as who is being selected to play in the league, or will be consulted on matters where a conflict of interest exists. Russell and Duncan are the head guys, and they have no incentive to turn NASL into a pro-EG or pro-Fnatic or pro-Liquid production. And even besides that, Incontrol doesn't seem like the kind of person who would do something dishonest anyhow.
4. The 5 player limit strikes me as reasonable. How many teams REALLY have more than 5 Star players? Liquid's top players are Jinro, TLO, Ret, HuK, Tyler, Haypro in descending order (roughly, I don't care if you think HuK > Ret or whatever else). Is NASL going to be ruined because Haypro isn't in it? EG has IdrA, Machine, Incontrol, Demuslim, Axslav, Strifecro. Is NASL ruined because Strifecro or Axslav isn't in it? Really?
5. I don't want to dump too hard on it because it isn't confirmed yet, but I'm a little worried about stonewalling the Koreans. I don't want the NASL to be the GSL in NA either, but I REALLY want at least IM and OGS there.
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On February 25 2011 16:26 Sephimos wrote:+ Show Spoiler +The Haterade being dumped on the NASL is really blowing my mind.
Just a few points:
1. There's no such thing as a perfect selection process. Opens might be the best, but NASL has decided they want to push a team format, which is their decision to make. If it really bombs it wouldn't be that incredibly hard to revert to an open system.
2. They can't cast the damn thing live. The integrity of the league's games has to take precedent over everything. There CAN'T be a CHANCE that someone is looking at the stream. In a game like SC2 with imperfect information, a chance of stream cheating potentially turns a great scout pattern and game sense into OMFG SCREEN LOOKING BANBANBAN. I remember in the HDH idrA ran this unbelievable scout pattern vs Orb and found a proxy stargate. If someone didn't know for a fact that Idra was playing legit, they could have been sure it was cheating.
3. While INcontrol is obviously a big part of NASL's production regarding streaming and casting, there's no reason to believe that he will be a decision maker as far as who is being selected to play in the league, or will be consulted on matters where a conflict of interest exists. Russell and Duncan are the head guys, and they have no incentive to turn NASL into a pro-EG or pro-Fnatic or pro-Liquid production. And even besides that, Incontrol doesn't seem like the kind of person who would do something dishonest anyhow.
4. The 5 player limit strikes me as reasonable. How many teams REALLY have more than 5 Star players? Liquid's top players are Jinro, TLO, Ret, HuK, Tyler, Haypro in descending order (roughly, I don't care if you think HuK > Ret or whatever else). Is NASL going to be ruined because Haypro isn't in it? EG has IdrA, Machine, Incontrol, Demuslim, Axslav, Strifecro. Is NASL ruined because Strifecro or Axslav isn't in it? Really?
5. I don't want to dump too hard on it because it isn't confirmed yet, but I'm a little worried about stonewalling the Koreans. I don't want the NASL to be the GSL in NA either, but I REALLY want at least IM and OGS there.
Agreed pretty much on all points, and to expand on 4. I understand Tylers concerns about one of their players being left out but ofc NASL has every right to make their own decisions regarding this and with good points as stated on SOTG.
If you're in a team with more than 5 players you might need to make a hard decision, maybe host an in house tournament to decide who goes and who has to stay.
I for one think NASL looks to be simply amazing already with good decisions being made across the board, gl incontrol and the rest of the staff working on this!
+ Show Spoiler +morrow vs idra, please make that happen
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On February 25 2011 16:26 Sephimos wrote:
The Haterade being dumped on the NASL is really blowing my mind.
Just a few points:
1. There's no such thing as a perfect selection process. Opens might be the best, but NASL has decided they want to push a team format, which is their decision to make. If it really bombs it wouldn't be that incredibly hard to revert to an open system.
2. They can't cast the damn thing live. The integrity of the league's games has to take precedent over everything. There CAN'T be a CHANCE that someone is looking at the stream. In a game like SC2 with imperfect information, a chance of stream cheating potentially turns a great scout pattern and game sense into OMFG SCREEN LOOKING BANBANBAN. I remember in the HDH idrA ran this unbelievable scout pattern vs Orb and found a proxy stargate. If someone didn't know for a fact that Idra was playing legit, they could have been sure it was cheating.
3. While INcontrol is obviously a big part of NASL's production regarding streaming and casting, there's no reason to believe that he will be a decision maker as far as who is being selected to play in the league, or will be consulted on matters where a conflict of interest exists. Russell and Duncan are the head guys, and they have no incentive to turn NASL into a pro-EG or pro-Fnatic or pro-Liquid production. And even besides that, Incontrol doesn't seem like the kind of person who would do something dishonest anyhow.
4. The 5 player limit strikes me as reasonable. How many teams REALLY have more than 5 Star players? Liquid's top players are Jinro, TLO, Ret, HuK, Tyler, Haypro in descending order (roughly, I don't care if you think HuK > Ret or whatever else). Is NASL going to be ruined because Haypro isn't in it? EG has IdrA, Machine, Incontrol, Demuslim, Axslav, Strifecro. Is NASL ruined because Strifecro or Axslav isn't in it? Really?
5. I don't want to dump too hard on it because it isn't confirmed yet, but I'm a little worried about stonewalling the Koreans. I don't want the NASL to be the GSL in NA either, but I REALLY want at least IM and OGS there.
They could cast it live with a delay in the stream of 10 to 20 minutes its not uncommon for tournaments to do this. even make it 30-40 minutes to ensure games will be over, 30-40 minutes isnt a big deal any longer feels like your just watching a replay on youtube.
For the 5 player limit its not really about the current teams its about team growth if the NASL becomes a major league in NA it will completly destroy the way teams work and will divide teams and not allow them to expand i would like to see teams expand and flourish not be divided and fight for sponsors.
Yea i really hope your right that incontrol or xeris will not be part of the process for picking members, but at the same time duncan and russel arent really to versed in all the players in esports so its hard to not see incontrol being involved in this process (russel didnt even know who whitera was) considering that alot of the staff seem to be EG or Fnatic members i am pretty sure a conflict of intrest will be present. Also the fact that incontrol is automatically part of the league just seems a bit unfair, and its possible that gretorp maybe as well (although nothing was said in that regard) If he wants to be a caster then he should cast if he wants to be a player he should give up the position of casting to focus on being a competitor in the NASL, with how busy he is going to be being a figurehead for the NASL i cant see him perfoming very well anyways.
I really hope it wont be this way but as ive said in previous posts if it feels like their is any bias involved in the picking of players this league will not be taken seriously, Honestly i dont think incontrol is a top 50 player(hes really good and im a fan but there are just far better players out there) weather that be in north america europe or korea, or all of them as the case may be in this tournament so that makes me skeptical already. I really hope the NASL succeeds wich is the reason im being so critical, but i am also extremely happy with the way the GSL is being run right now so it wouldnt be a huge deal if the NASL does poorly. The GSL's qualification format makes it a far better judge of who the best players are anyways. Even the way the TSL are doing their tournament is far more commendable , invite the big names and make a qualification process over many open tournaments it seems fair ( everyone wants to see the big names and alot of those korean players probably wouldnt even try to qualify) Where as having Incontrol as an auto invite to the NASL doesnt seem fair if he was so great why didnt get get an invite to the TSL?
Best of luck to the people running the NASL i just really hope you guys do this right!
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Live cAsting should not be done !! Ghosting cheating will occur.
PLEASE RELEASE THE REPLAYS !! and VIODS MAKE THEM PUBLIC
i dont likeit how gomt tv doenst release the voids.
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Just to get it out there, I will not be playing in the league. Want to take any speculation out of that.
Thank you!
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On February 26 2011 04:35 Gretorp wrote:
Just to get it out there, I will not be playing in the league. Want to take any speculation out of that.
Thank you!
Glad to hear that, not because you are a bad player, just because you even said yourself that you havent been playing much recently (job etc.) I was defenetly a fan of yours at MLG but then you sort of fell off the radar didnt hear to much of you. Gl in the future though. I was critical of both yours and Incontrols casting abilities at the showmatch so i hope you guys will practice up and impress us for the NASL!
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On February 26 2011 06:19 cheesemaster wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 04:35 Gretorp wrote:
Just to get it out there, I will not be playing in the league. Want to take any speculation out of that.
Thank you! Glad to hear that, not because you are a bad player, just because you even said yourself that you havent been playing much recently (job etc.) I was defenetly a fan of yours at MLG but then you sort of fell off the radar didnt hear to much of you. Gl in the future though. I was critical of both yours and Incontrols casting abilities at the showmatch so i hope you guys will practice up and impress us for the NASL!
Definitely, and I've been taking it very serious. I've been analyzing my casts, and I'm looking to get lessons in casting from professional casters. Constructive criticism is always welcomed :-)
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On February 26 2011 06:53 Gretorp wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 06:19 cheesemaster wrote:On February 26 2011 04:35 Gretorp wrote:
Just to get it out there, I will not be playing in the league. Want to take any speculation out of that.
Thank you! Glad to hear that, not because you are a bad player, just because you even said yourself that you havent been playing much recently (job etc.) I was defenetly a fan of yours at MLG but then you sort of fell off the radar didnt hear to much of you. Gl in the future though. I was critical of both yours and Incontrols casting abilities at the showmatch so i hope you guys will practice up and impress us for the NASL! Definitely, and I've been taking it very serious. I've been analyzing my casts, and I'm looking to get lessons in casting from professional casters. Constructive criticism is always welcomed :-)
Honestly, I think one of the most important things in being a great caster is to at least be a pretty darn good player. Artosis immediately jumps to mind. His personality isn't as contagious as Day9's, but his game knowledge is so off-the-fucking-wall good that I love listening to everything he has to say. His energy is solid, his play by play is good, but it's his ability to both predict every move and bring you along for the ride that really blows me away.
Personality, chemistry, energy, all that, it comes with some practice, experience, and time. Having useful insight into the game is the real difference between the good and bad caster.
Just as an addendum: I'm not saying you're not a good player. I'm just saying that game knowledge is A-1 importance, and that comes from being good at the game (like you are). <3 you Gretorp, soooo looking forward to you + Incontrol.
Edit: Grammar.
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I don't know if this has already been discussed, but how exactly is the audience arrangement going to be? The studio is in Rancho I believe, and the studio is not that big, but how does the rotation of the audience gonna work? Does the audience sign up for who they would like to see then wait around for their match up to come up and sit down, watch the match, then leave, making room for the next match? I would love to go see some games lives (I live in Los Angeles), just confused by how it will work.
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Tonight is what separates the GSL from all other sc2 tournaments/leagues. NesTea and Boxer are playing in the OPENING round of the GSL, which very well could be the finals of the GSL and any other league. Is the NASL going to be able to provide that kind of competition? Are they going to be able to have two of the best players in the world play so early?
It shall be interesting to see how they can match the GSL's depth. The up/down matches are possibly going to have Boxer, NesTea, and MVP? Insane play by the Koreans.
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On February 26 2011 15:06 Krayg wrote:
I don't know if this has already been discussed, but how exactly is the audience arrangement going to be? The studio is in Rancho I believe, and the studio is not that big, but how does the rotation of the audience gonna work? Does the audience sign up for who they would like to see then wait around for their match up to come up and sit down, watch the match, then leave, making room for the next match? I would love to go see some games lives (I live in Los Angeles), just confused by how it will work.
Well first of all the matches are mostly going to be done online if you didnt know, and second of all it will be cast live but not broadcast live it will be braodcast a day later, therefore they cannot have an audience as far as i know as someone from the audience could ruin the results
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On February 26 2011 13:05 Sephimos wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 06:53 Gretorp wrote:On February 26 2011 06:19 cheesemaster wrote:On February 26 2011 04:35 Gretorp wrote:
Just to get it out there, I will not be playing in the league. Want to take any speculation out of that.
Thank you! Glad to hear that, not because you are a bad player, just because you even said yourself that you havent been playing much recently (job etc.) I was defenetly a fan of yours at MLG but then you sort of fell off the radar didnt hear to much of you. Gl in the future though. I was critical of both yours and Incontrols casting abilities at the showmatch so i hope you guys will practice up and impress us for the NASL! Definitely, and I've been taking it very serious. I've been analyzing my casts, and I'm looking to get lessons in casting from professional casters. Constructive criticism is always welcomed :-) Honestly, I think one of the most important things in being a great caster is to at least be a pretty darn good player. Artosis immediately jumps to mind. His personality isn't as contagious as Day9's, but his game knowledge is so off-the-fucking-wall good that I love listening to everything he has to say. His energy is solid, his play by play is good, but it's his ability to both predict every move and bring you along for the ride that really blows me away. Personality, chemistry, energy, all that, it comes with some practice, experience, and time. Having useful insight into the game is the real difference between the good and bad caster. Just as an addendum: I'm not saying you're not a good player. I'm just saying that game knowledge is A-1 importance, and that comes from being good at the game (like you are). <3 you Gretorp, soooo looking forward to you + Incontrol. Edit: Grammar.
This! Everything you said in that post is completely true and I 100% agree with you. That is why I always felt Artosis was so good at casting. Plus Tasteless is very entertaining and their chemistry together is irreplaceable.
If there are caster's you want to aspire to be like it is Artosis and Tasteless, they seem to make every single game interesting even in the most boring times. We want casters that keep our attention and make us laugh once in a while.
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On February 26 2011 13:05 Sephimos wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 06:53 Gretorp wrote:On February 26 2011 06:19 cheesemaster wrote:On February 26 2011 04:35 Gretorp wrote:
Just to get it out there, I will not be playing in the league. Want to take any speculation out of that.
Thank you! Glad to hear that, not because you are a bad player, just because you even said yourself that you havent been playing much recently (job etc.) I was defenetly a fan of yours at MLG but then you sort of fell off the radar didnt hear to much of you. Gl in the future though. I was critical of both yours and Incontrols casting abilities at the showmatch so i hope you guys will practice up and impress us for the NASL! Definitely, and I've been taking it very serious. I've been analyzing my casts, and I'm looking to get lessons in casting from professional casters. Constructive criticism is always welcomed :-) Honestly, I think one of the most important things in being a great caster is to at least be a pretty darn good player. Artosis immediately jumps to mind. His personality isn't as contagious as Day9's, but his game knowledge is so off-the-fucking-wall good that I love listening to everything he has to say. His energy is solid, his play by play is good, but it's his ability to both predict every move and bring you along for the ride that really blows me away. Personality, chemistry, energy, all that, it comes with some practice, experience, and time. Having useful insight into the game is the real difference between the good and bad caster. Just as an addendum: I'm not saying you're not a good player. I'm just saying that game knowledge is A-1 importance, and that comes from being good at the game (like you are). <3 you Gretorp, soooo looking forward to you + Incontrol. Edit: Grammar.
Is not like incontrol is any better player then gretrope. The idea that you have to be a good player to become a good caster is laughable. Granted pro turn to casters maybe know more knowledge and better insight. But if you are that good you will be still playing not casting. casters like raelcun khloder unstable are all very good at what they do.
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On February 27 2011 09:10 lazyfeet wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 13:05 Sephimos wrote:On February 26 2011 06:53 Gretorp wrote:On February 26 2011 06:19 cheesemaster wrote:On February 26 2011 04:35 Gretorp wrote:
Just to get it out there, I will not be playing in the league. Want to take any speculation out of that.
Thank you! Glad to hear that, not because you are a bad player, just because you even said yourself that you havent been playing much recently (job etc.) I was defenetly a fan of yours at MLG but then you sort of fell off the radar didnt hear to much of you. Gl in the future though. I was critical of both yours and Incontrols casting abilities at the showmatch so i hope you guys will practice up and impress us for the NASL! Definitely, and I've been taking it very serious. I've been analyzing my casts, and I'm looking to get lessons in casting from professional casters. Constructive criticism is always welcomed :-) Honestly, I think one of the most important things in being a great caster is to at least be a pretty darn good player. Artosis immediately jumps to mind. His personality isn't as contagious as Day9's, but his game knowledge is so off-the-fucking-wall good that I love listening to everything he has to say. His energy is solid, his play by play is good, but it's his ability to both predict every move and bring you along for the ride that really blows me away. Personality, chemistry, energy, all that, it comes with some practice, experience, and time. Having useful insight into the game is the real difference between the good and bad caster. Just as an addendum: I'm not saying you're not a good player. I'm just saying that game knowledge is A-1 importance, and that comes from being good at the game (like you are). <3 you Gretorp, soooo looking forward to you + Incontrol. Edit: Grammar. Is not like incontrol is any better player then gretrope. The idea that you have to be a good player to become a good caster is laughable. Granted pro turn to casters maybe know more knowledge and better insight. But if you are that good you will be still playing not casting. casters like raelcun khloder unstable are all very good at what they do.
It would be hard for you to be more wrong. There are plenty of energetic, likable commentators on youtube and elsewhere, who are, even at their best, mediocre commentators because they don't understand what's really going on. A lot of Husky//HD//Totalbiscuit commentary is cringeworthy because they are just not current on metagame trends and new strategies. HD probably gives it the best effort of the three, playing in some tournies and doing a daily ladder series.
Totalbiscuit, Husky, and HD are all extremely likable, extremely energetic casters, but they're not on the level of Day9 or Artosis because they're just not that good at the game. They can explain basic things in an enjoyable way but they're not game-psychic like Artosis, Tasteless, and Day9 are. That is the difference between a bad//OK caster and great caster. Gretorp will do a great job because he is good at//understands the game, and all the other stuff (energy, jokes, chemistry) will come with practice.
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I have to agree with the folks who are against this whole invite-thingy. How is this suppose to make western esports grow bigger if unsponsored players won't get a chance to prove themselfs against the best outside of Korea? Some sort of qualification tournament must be happening to get this to work in the long run. As long as players agree on some kind of terms that they can show up in California if they go that far in the NASL, it shouldn't be any problems.
What is the fun with another online invitational tournament with the same players as usual?
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On February 28 2011 04:01 Termit wrote:
I have to agree with the folks who are against this whole invite-thingy. How is this suppose to make western esports grow bigger if unsponsored players won't get a chance to prove themselfs against the best outside of Korea? Some sort of qualification tournament must be happening to get this to work in the long run. As long as players agree on some kind of terms that they can show up in California if they go that far in the NASL, it shouldn't be any problems.
What is the fun with another online invitational tournament with the same players as usual?
This is such a non-concern. If someone is that good consistently a team will pick them up, it really is that simple. Why would teams shun these incredible individuals that everyone is so sure are out there?
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On February 28 2011 07:28 Sephimos wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2011 04:01 Termit wrote:
I have to agree with the folks who are against this whole invite-thingy. How is this suppose to make western esports grow bigger if unsponsored players won't get a chance to prove themselfs against the best outside of Korea? Some sort of qualification tournament must be happening to get this to work in the long run. As long as players agree on some kind of terms that they can show up in California if they go that far in the NASL, it shouldn't be any problems.
What is the fun with another online invitational tournament with the same players as usual? This is such a non-concern. If someone is that good consistently a team will pick them up, it really is that simple. Why would teams shun these incredible individuals that everyone is so sure are out there?
It is a concern to me even though it may not be to you. Nobody can emerge from NASL because it's artificial.
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On February 28 2011 07:28 Sephimos wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2011 04:01 Termit wrote:
I have to agree with the folks who are against this whole invite-thingy. How is this suppose to make western esports grow bigger if unsponsored players won't get a chance to prove themselfs against the best outside of Korea? Some sort of qualification tournament must be happening to get this to work in the long run. As long as players agree on some kind of terms that they can show up in California if they go that far in the NASL, it shouldn't be any problems.
What is the fun with another online invitational tournament with the same players as usual? This is such a non-concern. If someone is that good consistently a team will pick them up, it really is that simple. Why would teams shun these incredible individuals that everyone is so sure are out there?
Ehm, organisations like fnatic, mouz, EG, SK etc often have full rosters and won't kick a player just like that, not in a RTS game. It's actually hard to find yourself a team even if you're at the a skill level near sponsored players. And there is really lacking of sponsored teams outside of Korea.
And there can be many other factors that play in when skilled players doesn't have a full sponsorship behind him. School, work, social life and stuff like that can prevent people from being fully active and play +6h every day , but that doesn't mean you're not good and can't compete in a league.
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Yes, and lots and lots of non-team people "emerged" from the GSL, right? Every single one of them aren't on teams, right? Oh wait, practically everyone in GSL S or A is on a team.
Even really good teams get really mediocre by the time you hit the middle of their lineups anyway. Team Liquid is seriously the one exception because basically every star foreigner decided to join the same damn team.
IM has MVP, Nestea, then it falls off a cliff. OGS has MC, Nada, then it falls off and you have Ensnare//thewind, then it falls off again and you have Top etc. ST has july, bomber, squirtle, then again it falls off a cliff. We're not missing anything serious by using the proposed team system.
People need to get it out of their head that some teamless hero nerd from the depth's of mom's basement is going to storm the tournament and show all the serious professionals what's what. It doesn't happen that way, teams are always looking for the best talent to put forward to achieve maximum exposure and sponsorship. When good people come up they get noticed, and get on teams.
Edit: Even TL doesn't have that hard of a call to make. Jinro-Huk-TLO-Ret-Tyler.
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account sickshot.sc2@gmail.com :pW Donthackme1
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On February 28 2011 09:20 Sephimos wrote:
Yes, and lots and lots of non-team people "emerged" from the GSL, right? Every single one of them aren't on teams, right? Oh wait, practically everyone in GSL S or A is on a team.
Even really good teams get really mediocre by the time you hit the middle of their lineups anyway. Team Liquid is seriously the one exception because basically every star foreigner decided to join the same damn team.
IM has MVP, Nestea, then it falls off a cliff. OGS has MC, Nada, then it falls off and you have Ensnare//thewind, then it falls off again and you have Top etc. ST has july, bomber, squirtle, then again it falls off a cliff. We're not missing anything serious by using the proposed team system.
People need to get it out of their head that some teamless hero nerd from the depth's of mom's basement is going to storm the tournament and show all the serious professionals what's what. It doesn't happen that way, teams are always looking for the best talent to put forward to achieve maximum exposure and sponsorship. When good people come up they get noticed, and get on teams.
Edit: Even TL doesn't have that hard of a call to make. Jinro-Huk-TLO-Ret-Tyler.
Yeah and how do a teamless good player show the rest of the scene that they are good enough to steal someones place in a team, by winning Craftcups online? Haha! Have in mind, a team can't afford to many players and have to cut someone loose if they wanna bring in another player and like I said before, that doesn't happen to often. And do you seriously think someone from a team like VT (except Poke) deserves to be invited to the NASL before teamless players like Destiny and avilo (not the best example maybe but he still beats the top scene on daily bases and is better than the guys in VT at least) just because they are on a team? I sure don't...
And you can't compare koreans to foreigners, they have so many teams and teamhouses full of players who practice all day long to qualify to Code A and S, and that's what's driving the community over there forward because every player who wants to go pro have the chance to do so by showing up on the GSL qualify. I seriously don't know how a invitational tournament will help western esports and Starcraft 2 in general in the states compare to an open qualifier. Could you please tell me your point of view on this one?
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Australia8532 Posts
On February 28 2011 09:20 Sephimos wrote:
IM has MVP, Nestea, then it falls off a cliff. OGS has MC, Nada, then it falls off and you have Ensnare//thewind, then it falls off again and you have Top etc. ST has july, bomber, squirtle, then again it falls off a cliff. We're not missing anything serious by using the proposed team system.
People need to get it out of their head that some teamless hero nerd from the depth's of mom's basement is going to storm the tournament and show all the serious professionals what's what. It doesn't happen that way, teams are always looking for the best talent to put forward to achieve maximum exposure and sponsorship. When good people come up they get noticed, and get on teams.
Edit: Even TL doesn't have that hard of a call to make. Jinro-Huk-TLO-Ret-Tyler.
IMLosira
IMSeed
IMJunwi
IMYonghwa (in GSTL)
Mentioning NaDa and NOT mentioning players like Ensnare, TOP, TheStC, Hero .. GSL isn't the be all and end all of a skill level..
And your little rant about "some teamless hero nerd" .. where do you think MKP came from? What team was he on the first GSL he participated in?
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On February 28 2011 10:31 Termit wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2011 09:20 Sephimos wrote:
Yes, and lots and lots of non-team people "emerged" from the GSL, right? Every single one of them aren't on teams, right? Oh wait, practically everyone in GSL S or A is on a team.
Even really good teams get really mediocre by the time you hit the middle of their lineups anyway. Team Liquid is seriously the one exception because basically every star foreigner decided to join the same damn team.
IM has MVP, Nestea, then it falls off a cliff. OGS has MC, Nada, then it falls off and you have Ensnare//thewind, then it falls off again and you have Top etc. ST has july, bomber, squirtle, then again it falls off a cliff. We're not missing anything serious by using the proposed team system.
People need to get it out of their head that some teamless hero nerd from the depth's of mom's basement is going to storm the tournament and show all the serious professionals what's what. It doesn't happen that way, teams are always looking for the best talent to put forward to achieve maximum exposure and sponsorship. When good people come up they get noticed, and get on teams.
Edit: Even TL doesn't have that hard of a call to make. Jinro-Huk-TLO-Ret-Tyler. Yeah and how do a teamless good player show the rest of the scene that they are good enough to steal someones place in a team, by winning Craftcups online? Haha! Have in mind, a team can't afford to many players and have to cut someone loose if they wanna bring in another player and like I said before, that doesn't happen to often. And do you seriously think someone from a team like VT (except Poke) deserves to be invited to the NASL before teamless players like Destiny and avilo (not the best example maybe but he still beats the top scene on daily bases and is better than the guys in VT at least) just because they are on a team? I sure don't... And you can't compare koreans to foreigners, they have so many teams and teamhouses full of players who practice all day long to qualify to Code A and S, and that's what's driving the community over there forward because every player who wants to go pro have the chance to do so by showing up on the GSL qualify. I seriously don't know how a invitational tournament will help western esports and Starcraft 2 in general in the states compare to an open qualifier. Could you please tell me your point of view on this one?
Yeah, that's exactly how they do it. Get high on the ladder, win some craftcups, go4sc2 tourneys, TL opens. Professional athletes have channels for getting noticed//recruited and so does SC2. I don't know what else you want me to say, if you want to play with the best, show them you're one of the best by winning a lot of stuff.
EG is getting itself together into a house sort of deal, TL has a house in Korea, why can't these other teams get a similar arrangement together? Some people are going to need to be trailblazers here, and get esports big in the Western theater. The best way to do this is with recognizable teams, with the biggest names, the most interesting backstories, the best teams that there are. I think the NASL is doing exactly what it needs to to get esports out in a big way. Recognizable teams, recognizable players, making it all a similar package to other sports for easier digestion for new people on the scene.
Once these teams and people get big, people want to see them more often, and that's when the big sponsorships start coming in. Pepsi realizes that EG has a million potential customers for their product who love watching Grack smash face. The Army and Air Force realize that SC2 is their demographic for recruitment. This all needs to build up in a way people can understand, and that's what's truly optimal about the NASL, its format is familiar and accessible for new people.
And just besides that, invitationals are much better for fanfare. The HDH really didn't have "the best players", but it was a huge success because people could get excited about it (I still laugh about the genius of having Tasteless and Day9 play each other). The same will be true for the NASL. Biggest names, biggest teams, draw people in.
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On February 28 2011 10:40 bkrow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2011 09:20 Sephimos wrote:
IM has MVP, Nestea, then it falls off a cliff. OGS has MC, Nada, then it falls off and you have Ensnare//thewind, then it falls off again and you have Top etc. ST has july, bomber, squirtle, then again it falls off a cliff. We're not missing anything serious by using the proposed team system.
People need to get it out of their head that some teamless hero nerd from the depth's of mom's basement is going to storm the tournament and show all the serious professionals what's what. It doesn't happen that way, teams are always looking for the best talent to put forward to achieve maximum exposure and sponsorship. When good people come up they get noticed, and get on teams.
Edit: Even TL doesn't have that hard of a call to make. Jinro-Huk-TLO-Ret-Tyler. IMLosira IMSeed IMJunwi IMYonghwa (in GSTL) Mentioning NaDa and NOT mentioning players like Ensnare, TOP, TheStC, Hero .. GSL isn't the be all and end all of a skill level.. And your little rant about "some teamless hero nerd" .. where do you think MKP came from? What team was he on the first GSL he participated in?
IMLosira -
IMSeed -
IMJunwi -
IMYonghwa (in GSTL) - These 4 are B teamers, or in Junwi's case, shit-awful. Aside from some memorable GSTL games they have not had much for results, and team leagues are always weird like that anyways. Squirtle beat MVP pretty hard then lost badly in Code A.
I mentioned Ensnare and top, at least read the post before spouting off. MKP was a progamer previously, he could have gotten on a team before GSL if he had wanted to, it just wasn't necessary. Just as an aside the same can be said for Whitera, it's not like Empire, Kas, or even some American team wouldn't be just pleased as punch to snap-recruit him.
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On February 28 2011 10:44 Sephimos wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2011 10:31 Termit wrote:On February 28 2011 09:20 Sephimos wrote:
Yes, and lots and lots of non-team people "emerged" from the GSL, right? Every single one of them aren't on teams, right? Oh wait, practically everyone in GSL S or A is on a team.
Even really good teams get really mediocre by the time you hit the middle of their lineups anyway. Team Liquid is seriously the one exception because basically every star foreigner decided to join the same damn team.
IM has MVP, Nestea, then it falls off a cliff. OGS has MC, Nada, then it falls off and you have Ensnare//thewind, then it falls off again and you have Top etc. ST has july, bomber, squirtle, then again it falls off a cliff. We're not missing anything serious by using the proposed team system.
People need to get it out of their head that some teamless hero nerd from the depth's of mom's basement is going to storm the tournament and show all the serious professionals what's what. It doesn't happen that way, teams are always looking for the best talent to put forward to achieve maximum exposure and sponsorship. When good people come up they get noticed, and get on teams.
Edit: Even TL doesn't have that hard of a call to make. Jinro-Huk-TLO-Ret-Tyler. Yeah and how do a teamless good player show the rest of the scene that they are good enough to steal someones place in a team, by winning Craftcups online? Haha! Have in mind, a team can't afford to many players and have to cut someone loose if they wanna bring in another player and like I said before, that doesn't happen to often. And do you seriously think someone from a team like VT (except Poke) deserves to be invited to the NASL before teamless players like Destiny and avilo (not the best example maybe but he still beats the top scene on daily bases and is better than the guys in VT at least) just because they are on a team? I sure don't... And you can't compare koreans to foreigners, they have so many teams and teamhouses full of players who practice all day long to qualify to Code A and S, and that's what's driving the community over there forward because every player who wants to go pro have the chance to do so by showing up on the GSL qualify. I seriously don't know how a invitational tournament will help western esports and Starcraft 2 in general in the states compare to an open qualifier. Could you please tell me your point of view on this one? Yeah, that's exactly how they do it. Get high on the ladder, win some craftcups, go4sc2 tourneys, TL opens. Professional athletes have channels for getting noticed//recruited and so does SC2. I don't know what else you want me to say, if you want to play with the best, show them you're one of the best by winning a lot of stuff. EG is getting itself together into a house sort of deal, TL has a house in Korea, why can't these other teams get a similar arrangement together? Some people are going to need to be trailblazers here, and get esports big in the Western theater. The best way to do this is with recognizable teams, with the biggest names, the most interesting backstories, the best teams that there are. I think the NASL is doing exactly what it needs to to get esports out in a big way. Recognizable teams, recognizable players, making it all a similar package to other sports for easier digestion for new people on the scene. Once these teams and people get big, people want to see them more often, and that's when the big sponsorships start coming in. Pepsi realizes that EG has a million potential customers for their product who love watching Grack smash face. The Army and Air Force realize that SC2 is their demographic for recruitment. This all needs to build up in a way people can understand, and that's what's truly optimal about the NASL, its format is familiar and accessible for new people. And just besides that, invitationals are much better for fanfare. The HDH really didn't have "the best players", but it was a huge success because people could get excited about it (I still laugh about the genius of having Tasteless and Day9 play each other). The same will be true for the NASL. Biggest names, biggest teams, draw people in.
The only problem i have with this whole recognizable thing is that these tournaments are mostly online (its unavoidable i know) but its going to hinder the progression of esports for non starcraft 2 players until they find a way to make it a completly offline format, seeing the players emotions as they play in a booth and the ceromonies as the crowd cheers for them is a huge draw that would seriously make it far more entertaining to watch for the average viewer.
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But you will see the player emotions won't you? I thought the final 16 in NASL was offline? Perhaps I'm misinformed.
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Getting Diggity to cast this got me 110% more interested in NASL.
One of the most clever and professional commentators out there!
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On March 01 2011 22:54 Maynarde wrote:
But you will see the player emotions won't you? I thought the final 16 in NASL was offline? Perhaps I'm misinformed.
oh yea totally for the final 16 but that happens over 1 weekend the bulk of the tournament is going to be offline, like 9 weeks of offline and 1 weekend for the finals or something like that.
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I want NASL to succeed, but I do have some concerns and I hope someone is listening out there.
I won't talk too much about the value of livesteams because it's been said already, and better than I could have. Someone brought up the whole "backseat players" which is impossible to detect in an online tourney. This is spot on.
About this restriction on how many Koreans are allowed in. Safe to assume Koreans from Korea, and not Koreans who have NA citizenship and so on. I think they simply want a better chance for a North Americans to win the prize pool, instead of someone from Korea taking all the money and running...which...isn't unfair really...but does imply some favoritism, but again it's impossible to be completely impartial being that this is the NASL and with it carries some nationalism. Being from Europe carries no such ban/restriction, which makes the restriction against Koreans a bit eyebrow-raising.
I do wonder what the Korean perspective is on this though. "We make no restrictions against foreigners in our country, but yet they impose restrictions on us?" wouldn't be completely out of tune.
GSL vs NASL. It worries me that INControl is trying his damndest to make it very clear that NASL is not the GSL. Fair enough, we all know it won't be. But at the same time, it also feels as if, in order to make sure no one can possibly confuse the two, the NASL won't be taking many of the best things about the GSL. Live studios where you can watch the gamers in booths, the crowd atmosphere, the whole excitement and mood that really makes you realize how truly big this is.
To illustrate, I'm not exactly an American football fan. I never watch football on TV. But when I received two tickets to the game for my birthday years ago, I went. The experience watching in the stadium, versus just watching on TV, was incredible and made me understand, at least on some level, why people love football. You might argue "well it was free, you wouldn't have paid for those tickets", and I concede there. But the point I'm trying to make it, you lose something very tangible when there's just simply no live events that are broadcast. So NASL is only going to do the whole magical GSL thing at the very end? I really hope it's something special.
But something tells me it won't be. InControl doesn't want comparisons made to the GSL, and as such will do everything he can to make it as different as possible, to the point that it's no longer about differences in presentation style. It starts to become something that's more Korean vs American or European. Please don't let things happen as I described.
Honestly after watching some of these MSI tournies with Day9 and DJWheat...then comparing that level of production quality versus the GSL...seriously the difference is so vast that it's unfair to compare.
But here's something that really hurt even me. We will never know if that so-called investor is just a faker or impostor(the same guy who claimed he watched IdrA vs Jinro with his investor buddies and was so embarrassed he stopped due to the sound sync issues). On some level, I realize that the first impression really did look amateurish. Interviews of Jinro and IdrA in what appeared to be in a dark, poorly-lit basement, lag/sound sync issues, etc, which we can't blame everything on INControl for.
There was one comment that, for some reason, it really stung. It was the frat boy comment.
Ouch. InControl want to run this show "by the players" which is noble, and at the same time, at what professional cost? Like ppl have said, many of these fears might be completely unfounded and who knows, the first game of NASL might just blow us all away. I just really hope that someone out there is listening and taking valuable things away.
One last thing. "Basement dweller" comment by INControl. I hate to say this, but these "basement dwellers" are also CUSTOMERS.
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......LAN, you say? *raises eyebrow curiously*
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I plan to purchase a season pass as soon as it's available, I never did for GomTV because I haven't been happy with the level of translation they do(there's some english commentary but no translation for on-screen text, for example), and supporting Starcraft in North America seems like the right thing to do as a player, even if they do have some growing pains with this first season.
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Wow. this is really going to take e-sports in a new direction in the west. I can't wait for it, got my $ ready to buy a season pass for the high def scene. I can't imagine the spin-off streams this is going to create. I mean, like streams talking about their favorite players and stuff like that.
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On March 09 2011 04:58 gilligan156 wrote:
I plan to purchase a season pass as soon as it's available, I never did for GomTV because I haven't been happy with the level of translation they do(there's some english commentary but no translation for on-screen text, for example), and supporting Starcraft in North America seems like the right thing to do as a player, even if they do have some growing pains with this first season.
Actually, most of the onscreen text is translated now. I don't know what it was like early on, since I only watched a few live games before I bought a ticket this season, but nowadays the players are even using IDs written in English rather than Hangul to make it easier on foreigners. The interview translations are often not really complete, but overall, GSL is very foreigner-friendly right now.
GomTV is setting the bar very high. NASL and GSL are different, but they are still competitors in the same market. I seriously hope that the people in charge of NASL recognize that and don't try not to copy some of GSL's best features just because they're "different".
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On February 26 2011 06:53 Gretorp wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 06:19 cheesemaster wrote:On February 26 2011 04:35 Gretorp wrote:
Just to get it out there, I will not be playing in the league. Want to take any speculation out of that.
Thank you! Glad to hear that, not because you are a bad player, just because you even said yourself that you havent been playing much recently (job etc.) I was defenetly a fan of yours at MLG but then you sort of fell off the radar didnt hear to much of you. Gl in the future though. I was critical of both yours and Incontrols casting abilities at the showmatch so i hope you guys will practice up and impress us for the NASL! Definitely, and I've been taking it very serious. I've been analyzing my casts, and I'm looking to get lessons in casting from professional casters. Constructive criticism is always welcomed :-)
I don't know if it's been said, but I do have some constructive criticism. I watched the Gosucoaching matches yesterday and I have two points that I think would be worth while for you to improve upon.
1. This one is not as big a deal as number 2 but still. Your style of commentating seems to be very play-by-play, which is fine because I know some people prefer that, but you sometimes take it a little too far. When there is not much noteworthy going on, it might be a good idea to just talk about the history of the players more in-depth or joke around with your co-caster a little. Sheth did a really good job here. I felt that when he saw something really noteworthy, he explained it very well and showed a good understanding of the Strategy involved, without noting miniscule things. And, of course, Tastosis is the ultimate example of good casting as they strike the perfect balance of play by play and analysis.
2. You really seem to want to bring across excitement. And in that attempt you end up stressing every second syllable of what you are saying. When the moment does call for excitement, you do the same thing, just louder, and that becomes very stressful to listen to. There is nothing wrong in speaking in your normal talking voice while there is nothing exciting going on. I think your casting would be much better if you try to be as natural as possible.
Again, these are meant to be constructive suggestions; if I am the only one who feels this way or if it's been said before, I apologize!
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On March 09 2011 04:58 gilligan156 wrote:
I plan to purchase a season pass as soon as it's available, I never did for GomTV because I haven't been happy with the level of translation they do(there's some english commentary but no translation for on-screen text, for example), and supporting Starcraft in North America seems like the right thing to do as a player, even if they do have some growing pains with this first season.
on screen text is english now
??
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Any official word on when NASL is starting? I see no information on their website, the official FAQ on team liquid, or the FAQ on their website. If it is April 6th, then it seems weird that there is no prominent information to that effect anywhere.
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Think I'll wait and see. TSL3 kinda showed that cross continent internets makes for a different playing field and possibly different playing styles. Unless the Koreans prepare for it, will probably be disappointing. Wondering how many good games the first few stages will pop out. Although to NASLs credit I think it will get much more tense as the group play ends, and makes for much hyping. 25 bucks for that many games is really a decent deal though and not unreasonable, especially if the money gets funneled back into a season 2.
Caster wise haven't seen enough of Gretorp or incontrol to really say but from watching Tastosis from GSL1 to now it takes ages to really get comfortable and natural so I wouldn't harp on them too much if they aren't bringin orgasms to your ears from day 1.
Just as a random point, I really like how GSL shows the Cheerfuls at slow bits while Tastosis makes small talk and hope that NASL can do something similar.
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Germany1287 Posts
Surprisingly, Thisisgame.com comes out on top in the battle for releasing the full group schedule
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On March 28 2011 02:44 underdawg wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2011 04:58 gilligan156 wrote:
I plan to purchase a season pass as soon as it's available, I never did for GomTV because I haven't been happy with the level of translation they do(there's some english commentary but no translation for on-screen text, for example), and supporting Starcraft in North America seems like the right thing to do as a player, even if they do have some growing pains with this first season. on screen text is english now ??
One thing I noticed is that they seem to use the Korean observer while they announce the players, and then switch to the English observer. So you (and by you, I obviously mean gilligan) should probably give it another try and watch past the intros.
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Apparently, you can only watch the NASL having a ticket and you can only have a ticket when you have a credit card.
I'd say it's save to assume that about 99% of German viewers and 90% of European fans don't have a credit card.
Too bad...
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EPT
