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KDN
Profile Joined April 2010
Norway96 Posts
February 23 2011 17:29 GMT
#861
Football teams have a certain amount of players on the field, so does soccer, basketball, hockey, etc.

This is about creating idols that you can follow over several seasons.
Ownos
Profile Joined July 2010
United States2147 Posts
February 23 2011 17:57 GMT
#862
On February 23 2011 21:29 CoR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 22 2011 11:06 ReachTheSky wrote:
This is a north american starleague.......can't we just keep this to north americans? ><


wow ... most rassistic tread read for a long time ...
i think alot ALOT of european/s.american etc players are better then most of the us player like 70-30% in the VERY top (also because europe ofc have way miore countrys where the money is much more worth) TSL Qualifiers etc seems to show the same etc

only NA would make it a very boring tournament with not including 80% of the non asian scene

its way way WAY more epic tournament with players who are the best from all over the world


Korean eSports was developed for Koreans, not a bunch of outsiders. That's all I got to say.
...deeper and deeper into the bowels of El Diablo
Slayer714
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada1 Post
February 23 2011 18:18 GMT
#863
WOW Diggity and possibly Moletrap too!! This is going to be like the old days of the Korean sc1 pro scene. I'm REALLY excited now. Only if we could get Cholera and Klazart to do some guest casting!
[-Bluewolf-]
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States609 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-23 21:45:20
February 23 2011 19:54 GMT
#864
I've thought about this league for quite some time, and the following is likely the one things that bothers me the most.

This league is mimicking its selection criteria and overall angle very closely to that of the failed Championship Gaming Series. In that league, they hand picked the players that could play, had visual looks and personality count towards the selection (NASL requires video, audio only applications are not allowed...), and focused heavily on a "team spirit" aspect. Furthermore, they made it nearly impossible to break into the league after their first "draft", thus causing a loss of interest from those that might want to aspire to compete in it. The argument was, of course, that the league wanted to build storylines and backgrounds just as in other sports (sound familiar)? Lastly, those that were picked often had contacts with those doing the picking - or basically, the team managers were biased as is human nature to those they knew. This league is also doing picks by what appears to be the league creators - one of which had close ties with EG and the other who has close ties to Fnatic.

The CGS format was nearly universally panned except for those that constantly kept repeating how the community should support it as it was great that so much money was being thrown at e-sports along with the frequent broadcasting. In short, personal feelings of "X should have selected Y" were to be ignored and the public was expected to keep supporting the same hand picked players season after season, some of which had never shown they really belonged there in the first place over others.

In terms of setup, excluding the fact that NASL is skipping putting on a fake qualification event (ie. the CGS combine), I just cannot see the difference. I am ignoring NASL's open qualification event as it is a token 1 spot that seems there just as a weak attempt to legitimize the event (with the bet being one of the 15 "chosen ones" will win by sheer numbers and thus allow the organizers to point out that their players are the best). Even ignoring CGS, the entire invitational model just starts to strangle a community as you cannot build e-sports top-down by only supporting a select elite (In my opinion, Quake 3/LIVE ended up with the same problem of few taking competition as an esport except those constantly invited to invitationals).

I think they should just drop this whole facade of making esports huge and call this what it actually is: an invitational. It isn't meant to inspire the average Joe to play more, it isn't meant to get healthy competition going among the community as a whole, and, heck, it isn't even really "North American". All of this is just my opinion, of course.

Looking forward to continuing to watch the GSL, TSL, and MLG - relatively open qualifications make these events so much more exciting to watch knowing the players proved they belong there.
The melody of logic always plays the notes of truth.
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
February 23 2011 20:25 GMT
#865
I'm still confused how an arbitrary team makes a player more reliable, or more specifically how not being on a team makes them unreliable, if they are known by the community and actually want to and are able to compete, i see no reason why they wouldn't be held into the same esteem as a team'd player. and the "if your good enough you'll be on a team" stuff isn't true, teams are very selective in their player choices and there are plenty of great players not representing a team but every one of them will be excluded, such as white ra for example, a player known by the community and held in high esteem, if he was for sure able to play, you think that he'd be unreliable just because he is solo sponsered?
Tschis
Profile Joined November 2010
Brazil1511 Posts
February 23 2011 20:30 GMT
#866
On February 24 2011 05:25 PrinceXizor wrote:
I'm still confused how an arbitrary team makes a player more reliable, or more specifically how not being on a team makes them unreliable, if they are known by the community and actually want to and are able to compete, i see no reason why they wouldn't be held into the same esteem as a team'd player. and the "if your good enough you'll be on a team" stuff isn't true, teams are very selective in their player choices and there are plenty of great players not representing a team but every one of them will be excluded, such as white ra for example, a player known by the community and held in high esteem, if he was for sure able to play, you think that he'd be unreliable just because he is solo sponsered?



I agree.

But I also think that the polls/votations might help with that.
If enough people vote in a player, maybe they'll take that as an indicator that this player is reliable.

//tx
"A coward is not someone that runs from a battle knowing he will lose. A coward is someone who challenges a weak knowing he will win."
[-Bluewolf-]
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States609 Posts
February 23 2011 20:32 GMT
#867
On February 24 2011 05:25 PrinceXizor wrote:
I'm still confused how an arbitrary team makes a player more reliable, or more specifically how not being on a team makes them unreliable, if they are known by the community and actually want to and are able to compete, i see no reason why they wouldn't be held into the same esteem as a team'd player. and the "if your good enough you'll be on a team" stuff isn't true, teams are very selective in their player choices and there are plenty of great players not representing a team but every one of them will be excluded, such as white ra for example, a player known by the community and held in high esteem, if he was for sure able to play, you think that he'd be unreliable just because he is solo sponsered?


If you read the Q&A thread, White-Ra counts as being on a team. A team can consist of one member.
The melody of logic always plays the notes of truth.
sylverfyre
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8298 Posts
February 23 2011 20:38 GMT
#868
On February 24 2011 04:54 [-Bluewolf-] wrote:
I've thought about this league for quite some time, and the following is likely the one things that bothers me the most.

This league is mimicking its selection criteria and overall angle very closely to that of the failed Championship Gaming Series. In that league, they hand picked the players that could play, had visual looks and personality count towards the selection (NASL requires video, audio only applications are not allowed...), and focused heavily on a "team spirit" aspect. Furthermore, they made it nearly impossible to break into the league after their first "draft", thus causing a loss of interest from those that might want to aspire to compete in it. The argument was, of course, that the league wanted to build storylines and backgrounds just as in other sports (sound familiar)? Lastly, those that were picked often had contacts with those doing the picking - or basically, the team managers were biased as is human nature to those they knew. This league is also doing picks by what appears to be the league creators - one of which had close ties with EG and the other who has close ties to Fnatic.

The CGS format was nearly universally panned except for those that constantly kept repeating how the community should support it as it was great that so much money was being thrown at e-sports along with the frequent broadcasting. In short, personal feelings of "X should have selected Y" were to be ignored and the public was expected to keep supporting the same hand picked players season after season, some of which had never shown they really belonged there in the first place over others.

In terms of setup, excluding the fact that NASL is skipping putting on a fake qualification event (ie. the CGS combine), I just cannot see the difference. I am ignoring NASL's open qualification event as it is a token 1 spot that seems there just as a weak attempt to legitimize the event (with the bet being one of the 15 "chosen ones" will win by sheer numbers and thus allow the organizers to point out that their players are the best). Even ignoring CGS, the entire invitational model just starts to strangle a community as you cannot build e-sports top-down by only supporting a select elite (In my opinion, Quake 3/LIVE ended up with the same problem of few taking competition as an esport except those constantly invited to invitationals).

I think they should just drop this whole facade of making esports huge and call this what it actually is: an invitational. It isn't meant to inspire the average Joe to play more, it isn't meant to get healthy competition going among the community as a whole, and, heck, it isn't even really "North American". All of this is just my opinion, of course.

Looking forward to continuing to watch the GSL, TSL, and MLG - relatively open qualifications make these events so much more exciting to watch knowing the players proved they belonged there.

I'll admit, the invitational aspect bothered me too. However, the GSL's thousand-man qualifier also bothered me, it felt like a lot of it was "luck of the brackets" for who got televised - but open qualifiers are WORLDS better than this popularity contest...

I like how TSL did qualifiers the best - turn a weekly, online open tournament into a (large) set of qualifying tournaments, rather than ... 1 qualifier spot and the rest invitationals.
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-23 21:07:09
February 23 2011 21:03 GMT
#869
On February 24 2011 05:32 [-Bluewolf-] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 24 2011 05:25 PrinceXizor wrote:
I'm still confused how an arbitrary team makes a player more reliable, or more specifically how not being on a team makes them unreliable, if they are known by the community and actually want to and are able to compete, i see no reason why they wouldn't be held into the same esteem as a team'd player. and the "if your good enough you'll be on a team" stuff isn't true, teams are very selective in their player choices and there are plenty of great players not representing a team but every one of them will be excluded, such as white ra for example, a player known by the community and held in high esteem, if he was for sure able to play, you think that he'd be unreliable just because he is solo sponsered?


If you read the Q&A thread, White-Ra counts as being on a team. A team can consist of one member.

this 100% blows my mind. fine, everyone join your own team so you can play.

if you require teams, but allow 1 man teams, then why require teams at all? anyone can form a team with themselves and try to join, and if you discriminate against their team because of it it causes issues. :/ really things are just way overcomplicated. just have the 250 dollar deposit and thats it. SC2 players aren't really going to throw away 250.
tlgriffith3
Profile Joined February 2011
3 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-23 21:06:17
February 23 2011 21:05 GMT
#870
Cool beans
LovE-
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1963 Posts
February 23 2011 22:17 GMT
#871
On February 24 2011 04:54 [-Bluewolf-] wrote:
I've thought about this league for quite some time, and the following is likely the one things that bothers me the most.

This league is mimicking its selection criteria and overall angle very closely to that of the failed Championship Gaming Series. In that league, they hand picked the players that could play, had visual looks and personality count towards the selection (NASL requires video, audio only applications are not allowed...), and focused heavily on a "team spirit" aspect. Furthermore, they made it nearly impossible to break into the league after their first "draft", thus causing a loss of interest from those that might want to aspire to compete in it. The argument was, of course, that the league wanted to build storylines and backgrounds just as in other sports (sound familiar)? Lastly, those that were picked often had contacts with those doing the picking - or basically, the team managers were biased as is human nature to those they knew. This league is also doing picks by what appears to be the league creators - one of which had close ties with EG and the other who has close ties to Fnatic.

The CGS format was nearly universally panned except for those that constantly kept repeating how the community should support it as it was great that so much money was being thrown at e-sports along with the frequent broadcasting. In short, personal feelings of "X should have selected Y" were to be ignored and the public was expected to keep supporting the same hand picked players season after season, some of which had never shown they really belonged there in the first place over others.

In terms of setup, excluding the fact that NASL is skipping putting on a fake qualification event (ie. the CGS combine), I just cannot see the difference. I am ignoring NASL's open qualification event as it is a token 1 spot that seems there just as a weak attempt to legitimize the event (with the bet being one of the 15 "chosen ones" will win by sheer numbers and thus allow the organizers to point out that their players are the best). Even ignoring CGS, the entire invitational model just starts to strangle a community as you cannot build e-sports top-down by only supporting a select elite (In my opinion, Quake 3/LIVE ended up with the same problem of few taking competition as an esport except those constantly invited to invitationals).

I think they should just drop this whole facade of making esports huge and call this what it actually is: an invitational. It isn't meant to inspire the average Joe to play more, it isn't meant to get healthy competition going among the community as a whole, and, heck, it isn't even really "North American". All of this is just my opinion, of course.

Looking forward to continuing to watch the GSL, TSL, and MLG - relatively open qualifications make these events so much more exciting to watch knowing the players proved they belong there.



I don't think I can agree anymore. When I first heard about this, I thought it sounded awesome and was super stoked. But now it seems like there's no point in trying to even get to this level anymore because chances are they will pick the teams from seasons prior than just picking a new no name teams that pops up.
LovE.311 (NA) || @LovE_Sc2
stalife
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada1222 Posts
February 23 2011 23:12 GMT
#872
I thought we were lucky that people don't have to be in California to qualify for top 16 place :D
www.memoryexpress.com
PH
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States6173 Posts
February 23 2011 23:31 GMT
#873
Awesome. I have to pay money for VODs just like the GSL?

COOL.

It'll be interesting to see how successful this turns out, but that'll be purely from news posts for me. -_-
Hello
PetitCrabe
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada410 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-23 23:54:20
February 23 2011 23:33 GMT
#874
I haven't read the whole thread but this silly idea popped in my head when I was reading the OP.

What happens to the GSL now? From what I hear (source is internet), Starcraft 2 and GSL isn't doing soooo well in Korea but that the foreigners love SC2. If this is false, stop reading and move on, if this is true, can I say that a lot of the GSL audience are foreigners? Now, with a new league, are these foreigners gonna stick with the GSL, or watch this league? I doubt (I won't) someone will buy 2 tickets to watch NASL AND GSL. I'm probably going to watch the NASL, and if ( IF IF IF ) what I'm saying is true, then isn't GSL going to die?

Again this is super speculative I have nothing to back up what anything that I'm saying but I would like to have someone's opinion on this and say if I'm completely off the track.


EDIT : I've finished reading the interview. WOW INC!!! Your girlfriend has competition now, me.
Euronyme
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden3804 Posts
February 23 2011 23:36 GMT
#875
So stoked for this. Team Liquid Whaiting!
I wonder which players are gonna play though =/
I bet i can maı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨̨̨̨̨̨ke you wipe your screen.
SmoKim
Profile Joined March 2010
Denmark10305 Posts
February 23 2011 23:55 GMT
#876
On February 23 2011 05:56 BlueFlames wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 23 2011 05:51 YouGotNothin wrote:
On February 23 2011 05:47 BlueFlames wrote:
On February 23 2011 05:45 vicariouscheese wrote:
On February 23 2011 05:42 YouGotNothin wrote:
Starcraft is going to become so popular because of NASL and then when all my friends are like man this is awesome, don't you play Starcraft? And I'll be like hell yeah I do. And then all the girls will want to be in my pants.


you had me until girls


but that would be the best marketing strategy for this projekt, dont you think? ^^


Starcraft Girls for the NASL, yes I can see it now, they'll be like cheerleaders at football games, except hotter because they'll be dressed up like Kerrigan (human Kerrigan not that icky other one).


Kerrigan and Nova lookalikes dancing the Firebathero dance or Yellows dance anyone? I would pay just to see that happening.^^


brb
"LOL I have 202 supply right now (3 minutes later)..."LOL NOW I HAVE 220 SUPPLY SUP?!?!?" - Mondragon
durbarak
Profile Joined April 2010
Austria54 Posts
February 24 2011 00:53 GMT
#877
I find it interesting, that so many people dislike casting from replays. I don't care about replays. I enjoyed the past couple of TL Opens so much. Additionally i think casting from replays has some really great advantages, if you figure out the sync issues of course. (I didn't know there are sync issues until the jinro idra showmatch.) Replay-casting gives the caster much more control, they literally hit a button and the game begins; the result is a smoother show. A nice side effect is, it takes away any chance for stream abuse.
What I dislike, is the current plan to record a live cast and play it back ~24h later. This way you detract interactivity from the broadcast and this is a huge deal for me. Interactivity is the main distinction from regular TV and the internet's biggest perk. Getting live feedback, reacting to stuff happening during the show, like polls or the GSL questions; these things give me the feeling I'm involved in the broadcast and I like it.
That being said, I think it's sad you're not taking full advantage of the possibilities of the internet.

Regarding the NASL and the showmatch in general just this. I expected more from the showmatch. The issues have been named several times already and I won't repeat them. The actual announcement was kind of anti-climactic, too. I admit, I have mixed feelings towards NASL now. A good portion of concern has blended with my excitement. I won't blindly buy premium. I probably would have done it before the showmatch. I will wait, tune in in April and see what improvements you've made and then decide. My budget is limited and it's either NASL or GSL. May the better show win.
"Oh, I see sth." "What did he build?" "He built a CIRCLE!"
avilo
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States4100 Posts
February 24 2011 02:21 GMT
#878
On February 24 2011 04:54 [-Bluewolf-] wrote:
I've thought about this league for quite some time, and the following is likely the one things that bothers me the most.

This league is mimicking its selection criteria and overall angle very closely to that of the failed Championship Gaming Series. In that league, they hand picked the players that could play, had visual looks and personality count towards the selection (NASL requires video, audio only applications are not allowed...), and focused heavily on a "team spirit" aspect. Furthermore, they made it nearly impossible to break into the league after their first "draft", thus causing a loss of interest from those that might want to aspire to compete in it. The argument was, of course, that the league wanted to build storylines and backgrounds just as in other sports (sound familiar)? Lastly, those that were picked often had contacts with those doing the picking - or basically, the team managers were biased as is human nature to those they knew. This league is also doing picks by what appears to be the league creators - one of which had close ties with EG and the other who has close ties to Fnatic.

The CGS format was nearly universally panned except for those that constantly kept repeating how the community should support it as it was great that so much money was being thrown at e-sports along with the frequent broadcasting. In short, personal feelings of "X should have selected Y" were to be ignored and the public was expected to keep supporting the same hand picked players season after season, some of which had never shown they really belonged there in the first place over others.

In terms of setup, excluding the fact that NASL is skipping putting on a fake qualification event (ie. the CGS combine), I just cannot see the difference. I am ignoring NASL's open qualification event as it is a token 1 spot that seems there just as a weak attempt to legitimize the event (with the bet being one of the 15 "chosen ones" will win by sheer numbers and thus allow the organizers to point out that their players are the best). Even ignoring CGS, the entire invitational model just starts to strangle a community as you cannot build e-sports top-down by only supporting a select elite (In my opinion, Quake 3/LIVE ended up with the same problem of few taking competition as an esport except those constantly invited to invitationals).

I think they should just drop this whole facade of making esports huge and call this what it actually is: an invitational. It isn't meant to inspire the average Joe to play more, it isn't meant to get healthy competition going among the community as a whole, and, heck, it isn't even really "North American". All of this is just my opinion, of course.

Looking forward to continuing to watch the GSL, TSL, and MLG - relatively open qualifications make these events so much more exciting to watch knowing the players proved they belong there.


Exactly right. Everyone should read and re-read what bluewolf just wrote because that is exactly how this is.

For a player like me that is currently not on a team, does not have millionaire sponsors behind myself, but consistently beats the majority of players that are most likely going to be "picked" (that's right PICKED) for this league, it is going to be insanely difficult, if impossible to get into this league unless I am ordained by NASL to be one of the 50 players CHOSEN to be in their league.

I work my ass off, practice 6+ hours a day and am doing the entire goddamn progamer thing. I currently am not on a sponsored team. I am looking and have been obviously. I have waited for something as big as this to come along that I can get into and finally make a living professionally playing the game that i fucking love, and when it comes along, me and other people in my position are basically be said "fuck you" to because we do not already have money, we did not already know the right people, yet we have the skills, desire, motivation to fucking make this dream come true. I'm one of those people right now that this "north american star league" is making it AS DIFFICULT AS HUMANLY POSSIBLE for me to participate in.

North american e-sports should be based off of PLAYING THE GAME, not WHO YOU KNOW. Not a "make the rich richer" type of thing. This is in fact NOT basketball. Starcraft is an individual game. And the people that are trying to make it that aren't on a team right now, like myself, are not going to fucking go all the way to participate in a league and then not show up at the LAN for $100,000. That rule and reasoning is all fluff that basically excludes a player like myself that CAN in fact compete with the best players in this game.

Just everyone re-read bluewolf's post, he basically says everything a lot of people are thinking. I myself want very badly to get into this league. Sorry that I do not have mega sponsors behind me yet, or that I do not have the appropriate contacts. I want to get in this league and show people through my gameplay that I can compete and win.
Sup
Title11
Profile Joined February 2011
United States30 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-24 03:00:14
February 24 2011 02:44 GMT
#879
He thinks he's people!
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-24 03:00:27
February 24 2011 02:54 GMT
#880
God i really hate to agree with avilo, it actually hurts my brain, but the selection process is less than ideal it's pretty much awful. It seems like you looked at GSL code S and thought that was cool and decided to avoid the three months of preseasons that became the qualifiers for code S.


I understand putting the quality of the event ahead of everything else, and that being a reason behind the selection process. but really have at the very least a TSL style qualifying ladder. if a player wants into the NASL let them earn it, and not be given it.

with tournaments and leagues impartiality creates legitimacy.
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