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On January 07 2011 06:02 ptbl wrote:[embedded quotes omitted] You have an interesting perspective regarding the dynamics of women empowerment. Personally, I would tell my daughter, if I also had one (  ) to reach for the stars, create her own path in life, and try your best. I think we can agree that you don't want women in our society to see themselves as second class citizens and inferior to men. After all, this isn't the middle ages! I think Tossgirl has the wrong attitude. She's already set herself back 10 steps if she's blaming her lack of success from being female. Though, I don't blame her. When an entire culture perpetuates that females are inferior, weak, and "emotionally unstable," it's hard to fight against these baseless perceptions. She should draw strength from her gender and let it empower her.If a female child says, "I want to be the first women president" or "I want to win the GSL," I will tell her to try hard, don't give up, and reach for the stars.
Well, let me be candid.
1) You make a very good point when you say that it's hard to fight socio-cultural stereotypes. It's just true and is surely something to be tackled if we want to achieve equality.
2) Telling anyone to reach for the stars is nonsense, since first of all it's as vague as can be and implies that they're (going to be) trying the -literally- impossible.
What's better? Making sure they understand (at least) three things. First, that if they want to be successful, they'll have to work hard, no matter what it is they want to achieve and no matter how talented they are. Second, they should listen to what others have to say, but be critical nonetheless, see if there are things others could be wrong about - and find out. Third, tell them that no matter what happens, they can always turn to you for support. Only if you mean it, of course.
3) Telling someone they should "never give up" is nonsense too, because at the very least you need to abandon strategies that don't work, and sometimes even goals. What they should do instead is a careful assessment of whether 'going for it' is worth the effort. If they do what they love and aren't killing themselves in the process of working toward a goal they will de facto not achieve in their lifetime, so be it, but sometimes the hassle just ain't worth it.
Life's just more complicated than that.
4) Drawing strength from one's gender? What? Bollocks. You can at best gain strength by someone's support, be it direct or indirect.
edit: Fantastic article by the way, thanks Canucks.
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On January 08 2011 01:18 Dagobert wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 06:02 ptbl wrote:[embedded quotes omitted] You have an interesting perspective regarding the dynamics of women empowerment. Personally, I would tell my daughter, if I also had one ( ) to reach for the stars, create her own path in life, and try your best. I think we can agree that you don't want women in our society to see themselves as second class citizens and inferior to men. After all, this isn't the middle ages! I think Tossgirl has the wrong attitude. She's already set herself back 10 steps if she's blaming her lack of success from being female. Though, I don't blame her. When an entire culture perpetuates that females are inferior, weak, and "emotionally unstable," it's hard to fight against these baseless perceptions. She should draw strength from her gender and let it empower her.If a female child says, "I want to be the first women president" or "I want to win the GSL," I will tell her to try hard, don't give up, and reach for the stars. Well, let me be candid. 1) You make a very good point when you say that it's hard to fight socio-cultural stereotypes. It's just true and is surely something to be tackled if we want to achieve equality. 2) Telling anyone to reach for the stars is nonsense, since first of all it's as vague as can be and implies that they're (going to be) trying the -literally- impossible. What's better? Making sure they understand (at least) three things. First, that if they want to be successful, they'll have to work hard, no matter what it is they want to achieve and no matter how talented they are. Second, they should listen to what others have to say, but be critical nonetheless, see if there are things others could be wrong about - and find out. Third, tell them that no matter what happens, they can always turn to you for support. Only if you mean it, of course. 3) Telling someone they should "never give up" is nonsense too, because at the very least you need to abandon strategies that don't work, and sometimes even goals. What they should do instead is a careful assessment of whether 'going for it' is worth the effort. If they do what they love and aren't killing themselves in the process of working toward a goal they will de facto not achieve in their lifetime, so be it, but sometimes the hassle just ain't worth it. 4) Drawing strength from one's gender? What? Bollocks. You can at best gain strength by someone's support, be it direct or indirect. edit: Fantastic article by the way, thanks Canucks.
If you never reach for the stars, then you'll never reach your full potential. How can you know your full abilities and potential without trying your best? How do you know someone can't be the CEO of a company without setting their goals high? People should at least make the effort to aim high. If they fail, then at least they know that they tried and gave 100%.
In my book, being persistent is an admirable quality. Let's say someone is trying to lose weight to live a healthier lifestyle. They are having some difficulties trying to reach their goals. Are you really going to tell them to "give up." No, I am going to tell them to keep at it and don't give up. I would give them emotional and physical support. Someone has cancer and they are fighting with every fiber of their being to stay alive. Are you going to tell them to give up? You might, but I won't. I'm going to tell them to never give up.
The whole feminist, civil rights, gay rights movement was about drawing strength from themselves. Haven't you heard of "gay pride," "girl power," "black power," "women empowerment"? During segregation blacks were treated as second class citizens because of their skin color. Thus, during the civil rights movement they took pride from their skin color and empowered themselves. The same thing happened in the 70s and 80s during the feminist and women rights movement. Women were tired of being treated as dirt, i.e. "women should only stay in the kitchen and make babies" etc. Women were treated as inferior because of their gender. Thus, they took the fact that they were women to take as a form of empowerment. To use it as a source of power, hope, and authority.
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Jung So-Lim: I frequently think that things would be different if I was a male when I broadcast. My voice can't hold it whenever I try to increase my volume during moments of climax.
i am suddenly aroused :nudge nudge:
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On January 08 2011 02:49 Sanjuro wrote:Show nested quote +Jung So-Lim: I frequently think that things would be different if I was a male when I broadcast. My voice can't hold it whenever I try to increase my volume during moments of climax. i am suddenly aroused :nudge nudge:
Lol, I was thinking the exact same thing.
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On January 06 2011 08:52 ShadeR wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2011 02:24 KiLL_ORdeR wrote:On January 05 2011 21:37 CanucksJC wrote:On January 05 2011 21:02 Dectilon wrote:
If you lack stamina, start going to the gym or something. Nine times out of ten fatigue from long periods of focus (like studying) can be averted by getting more oxygen to your brain. And stronger muscles gives better hand precision to an extent.
It's clear that South Korea has a ways to go on the equality issue. Not only on the political side, but on the social side too if someone makes that excuse seriously. I've heard some really dumb statements about why there are way more men in e-sports than women (I think the most retarded I've heard was that "men have a natural hunting instinct"), and the idea that it would be because women "lack stamina" is one of them.
As for mean comments, I think most of everyone would prefer not to be called names. But this is the internet, and that shit isn't going away. I don't think being susceptible to bullying is a female trait either. If you're bullied and you don't feel you get support from your peers then it'll hurt more regardless of what the situation otherwise is. Of course, people react differently to abuse, but saying it's gender-specific rather than societal is wrong.
I'm sure most of everyone here would like to see women make it into the best leagues on their own ability, and I don't think anyone seriously believes that's impossible by any means.
Women do lack stamina. Look at every other sport and tell me in which one a woman holds a record over a man. Swimming, running, jumping, soccer, hockey, basketball. Men are clearly superior. uh, no. Men are superior in sports because we have more muscle mass and we don't have mammaries and ovaries, which in terms of physical activity are useless organs that throw off our center of gravity. It has nothing directly to do with stamina, although having those useless organs obviously puts more stress on your body, ie you get tired fast. Women can easily overcome this by simply working out a harder, but at the world class level men will always win. I think the point he made still stands Tossgirl commented on how her physiology makes her less able to practice > 10 hours a day. less practice she gets the worse she is -> the worse she is the more she loses -> the more she loses the ore she cries.
Well, as previously stated I don't think the difference in physiology between men and women matter a lot. I think the requirements to be a SC-pro are similar to what you need to be a concert pianist, manual dexterity, practice 10+ hours/day etc. There are numerous great female concert pianists today, and you certainly don't hear them complaining that they lack the stamina to practice as much as their male counterparts...
Also, I think it was Idra who said in an interview recently that having a "Westerner house" in Korea was really helpful in how they could practice and share experiences without the language/social barriers, and that this will undoubtly be important to break the korean dominance in the scene. So I would think the social barriers e-sports females encounter is a big part of the problem, as they state in the interview.
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I know I'm a terrible person for this, but I couldn't help but chuckle after thinking of the other abbreviation that "trans" is used for, in conjunction with "it's not just for men."
:<
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On January 08 2011 05:06 Belphegor13 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2011 08:52 ShadeR wrote:On January 06 2011 02:24 KiLL_ORdeR wrote:On January 05 2011 21:37 CanucksJC wrote:On January 05 2011 21:02 Dectilon wrote:
If you lack stamina, start going to the gym or something. Nine times out of ten fatigue from long periods of focus (like studying) can be averted by getting more oxygen to your brain. And stronger muscles gives better hand precision to an extent.
It's clear that South Korea has a ways to go on the equality issue. Not only on the political side, but on the social side too if someone makes that excuse seriously. I've heard some really dumb statements about why there are way more men in e-sports than women (I think the most retarded I've heard was that "men have a natural hunting instinct"), and the idea that it would be because women "lack stamina" is one of them.
As for mean comments, I think most of everyone would prefer not to be called names. But this is the internet, and that shit isn't going away. I don't think being susceptible to bullying is a female trait either. If you're bullied and you don't feel you get support from your peers then it'll hurt more regardless of what the situation otherwise is. Of course, people react differently to abuse, but saying it's gender-specific rather than societal is wrong.
I'm sure most of everyone here would like to see women make it into the best leagues on their own ability, and I don't think anyone seriously believes that's impossible by any means.
Women do lack stamina. Look at every other sport and tell me in which one a woman holds a record over a man. Swimming, running, jumping, soccer, hockey, basketball. Men are clearly superior. uh, no. Men are superior in sports because we have more muscle mass and we don't have mammaries and ovaries, which in terms of physical activity are useless organs that throw off our center of gravity. It has nothing directly to do with stamina, although having those useless organs obviously puts more stress on your body, ie you get tired fast. Women can easily overcome this by simply working out a harder, but at the world class level men will always win. I think the point he made still stands Tossgirl commented on how her physiology makes her less able to practice > 10 hours a day. less practice she gets the worse she is -> the worse she is the more she loses -> the more she loses the ore she cries. Well, as previously stated I don't think the difference in physiology between men and women matter a lot. I think the requirements to be a SC-pro are similar to what you need to be a concert pianist, manual dexterity, practice 10+ hours/day etc. There are numerous great female concert pianists today, and you certainly don't hear them complaining that they lack the stamina to practice as much as their male counterparts... Also, I think it was Idra who said in an interview recently that having a "Westerner house" in Korea was really helpful in how they could practice and share experiences without the language/social barriers, and that this will undoubtly be important to break the korean dominance in the scene. So I would think the social barriers e-sports females encounter is a big part of the problem, as they state in the interview. tossgirl has all the mechanical ability necessary for winning osl/msl.. she has 350 apm for gods sake. Its about the mind, creativity, adaption
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OM NOM NOM. Cute korean girls good at StarCraft.. does it get any better?
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On January 08 2011 20:41 koOma wrote:
OM NOM NOM. Cute korean girls good at StarCraft.. does it get any better?
Yeah, if it's YOUR Korean girl that's good at SC...
*sighs* ...then my life would be complete... =(
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was i the only one who saw the tag "TRANS" and then the thread topic and thought "trans" didn't mean translation?
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i cant say more than "nice"...
i totally support that ...
id also like to see more ...
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/Support
Not really sure what I'm supporting, but if it means getting more girls into SC2, then fuck yeah!!!
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Lim Soo-Ra's a hottie, she has the looks and height and figure of a fashion model.
: )
I personally really respect these women for toughing it out against sterotypes, but every successful career has struggles, hope they make it to greatness.
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On January 05 2011 02:25 tedster wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 14:45 Crunchums wrote:
it's good to see that they're not complaining about sexism (at least so far), rather they are just saying that having no Y chromosome is bad for a career in esports They aren't complaining much about sexism because it's not part of the Korean culture to consider this. Gender roles are much more conservative and traditional in Korea, and it's a little depressing to see that they are still so heavily boxed into these roles that they are otherwise overwhelmed by the thought of "growing up, having to get married, having to give birth, and then having to devote all time to the child" and such. Obviously this is a major difference in perception and they don't see this as unusual thinking at all, but it's clearly shoehorned gender roles like this that result in major disparities.
Except those roles are still expected of women in the "progressive, enlightened West." It's just less overt. With the exception of a few girls I met in college, almost all girls I know, no matter what race they are, have talked about marriage or children.
I know Westerners love to think of Asian women as poor, oppressed prisoners just waiting to be liberated, but you're delusional if you think gender inequality isn't just as bad in the West.
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EPT
