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Pekkz
Norway1505 Posts
On October 08 2010 04:11 SLush wrote: We should start a thread that collect terrans tears now. I can only imagine how sweet it will be for the top zergs like yourself to once again be feared opponents  | ||
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shindigs
United States4795 Posts
Something like during engagement, reapers run in and snipe key buildings. D8 charge sniping buildings during the heat of battle would be awesome. | ||
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ThirdStorm
21 Posts
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lindn
Sweden833 Posts
On October 08 2010 03:41 Licmyobelisk wrote: Why don't we just make zerg into god mode, yes? ![[image loading]](http://posterous.com/getfile/files.posterous.com/temp-2010-04-22/cHtgCEBezGFjabCprHeEaCccwgebytwbihGIBFtDGBrbslBcnzEjbEHFGtsw/marauder.jpg) + ![[image loading]](http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100922211038/starcraft/images/thumb/f/fd/SC2StimPack.jpg/56px-SC2StimPack.jpg) problem solved. anyways, hydras does not need a range buff, that'd make them ridiculous against way to much, they need to be less squishy and one part on fixing that is making them faster so that kiting and fleeing is possible | ||
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floor exercise
Canada5847 Posts
Building health for instance, why not nerf the biggest real problem with this. the stimmed marauders damage vs buildings which affects more than just z. Roach range will certainly help, but why not fix the Hydralisk instead of making the roach even more attractive? I think something has to be fixed about zerg ground armies, but it's evident that the hydra needs way more help than the roach. Supply before barracks is just the biggest joke of a fix ever, completely limits build options and choice just to fix one stupid unit. | ||
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Keitzer
United States2509 Posts
 jk i play Zerg and i approve. HOPEFULLY these changes make it "better" | ||
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pirouni
Greece31 Posts
2. fg touch is logical 3. supply depot thing works fine for protoss 4. the most suitable fix would be 2 supply for reapers, cause a couple of reapers is ok at first 3-4 mins, but 10 reapers is almost impossible to defend against 5. the hp for zerg building should be double imo, lossing hutch to marauder sniping so fast without any defence like taking off or pf is awful | ||
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exog
Norway279 Posts
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Anomandaris
Afghanistan440 Posts
Fungal growth change is good. Supply depot before rax IS STUPIDSTUPID. You just cut alot of terran possibilities. A little bit of cheese is part of the game and they already nerfed repears. This change is awful. Reaper speed needs factory. meh. They were already nerfed, but it might be ok. Can't really say as a toss, The big change wich is needed is the PvT matchup. Terran is really strong at the start and toss has a big advantage is lategame. | ||
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Anomandaris
Afghanistan440 Posts
4. the most suitable fix would be 2 supply for reapers, cause a couple of reapers is ok at first 3-4 mins, but 10 reapers is almost impossible to defend against That seems an interesting suggestion | ||
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Seam
United States1093 Posts
On October 08 2010 04:19 Sv1 wrote: I think it's odd that blizzard is sort of changing things in a game that have been around for 10+ years. seige damage Tanks did 35 to small in BW, and 70 to Large, and 56ish to medium. Now they do 35 to all, and 50 to Armored. It's not that different. | ||
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Gonzodamus
United States273 Posts
I'm not a particularly high level player (#1 in my gold league) but if I'm suspicious that I'm going to get cheesed, I'll open with an early Rax so I can have a marine or two out early enough to stop it. | ||
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
On October 08 2010 04:20 Arcanne wrote: bad changes Pretty much all that can be said about this patch you just said. But i'll add some more too On October 08 2010 04:11 Liquid`Jinro wrote: Because overcoming counters with micro was a huge part of SC1 and it fucking sucks when that is removed from the game. Thors counter mutas but with magic box, mutas do fine. Lurkers counter marines but with good micro, marines do fine. Are both pretty terrible, and you cant even turbo-newb on like 90% of the map pool. This. It's just another micromanagement thing that blizzard is trying to take out of the game to make it more "simple." They have been removing very intricate micro things like "fazing," and now this, because they want it to be a shallow, "X beats Y, Y beats Z, Z beats X" type of counter game. There is a hard counter system, so it's pretty hard to argue they do not want it to be like that. And intricate and rewarding micromanagement possibilities like reaper vs roach, like vulture spider mine vs dragoons, like dragoon vs spider mines...they are systematically patched out of Starcraft 2 until it's a game of, "I have more units than you do at this location on the map - I win." If anyone complaining about SC2's shallowness wants some more fuel for their argument...this type of patch is exactly what you would cite. It's interesting that Blizzard never listened to the TL articles that were put out by drone and others during the beta on how to make this game have more depth... At this point, it looks like they are feverently against adding in abstract depth to the game. They want "balance," but they want it the shallow, simple, easy way. | ||
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Fianchetto
United States157 Posts
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Sqq
Norway2023 Posts
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Hypatio
549 Posts
anyways, hydras does not need a range buff, that'd make them ridiculous against way to much, they need to be less squishy and one part on fixing that is making them faster so that kiting and fleeing is possible Consider that tanks have a range of 13 and do splash damage. Range 7 hydralisks would only work now because they are slow, are light, have only 80 hp, and are quite expensive basic T2 units. In fact, a range 7 hydralisk would probably still lose vs. stalkers with blink micro when off creep. | ||
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Seam
United States1093 Posts
On October 08 2010 04:26 avilo wrote: This. It's just another micromanagement thing that blizzard is trying to take out of the game to make it more "simple." They have been removing very intricate micro things like "fazing," and now this, because they want it to be a shallow, "X beats Y, Y beats Z, Z beats X" type of counter game. There is a hard counter system, so it's pretty hard to argue they do not want it to be like that. And intricate and rewarding micromanagement possibilities like reaper vs roach, like vulture spider mine vs dragoons, like dragoon vs spider mines...they are systematically patched out of Starcraft 2 until it's a game of, "I have more units than you do at this location on the map - I win." If anyone complaining about SC2's shallowness wants some more fuel for their argument...this type of patch is exactly what you would cite. It's interesting that Blizzard never listened to the TL articles that were put out by drone and others during the beta on how to make this game have more depth... At this point, it looks like they are feverently against adding in abstract depth to the game. They want "balance," but they want it the shallow, simple, easy way. The issue is, while the Reaper can out-micro the Roach, and so can the Helion...and the Marauder... What of Zerg can out-micro to counter a Terran unit? Mutas never counter Thors. Not even with Magic Box. You still need a quite higher cost of Mutas to kill Thors. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On October 08 2010 04:22 floor exercise wrote: Supply before barracks is just the biggest joke of a fix ever, completely limits build options and choice just to fix one stupid unit. I'd say making Nexus before Gateway, CC before Rax, and Hatch before Pool viable openings that don't auto-lose to reapers is a little more than "fixing one stupid unit". On October 08 2010 04:28 Seam wrote: Mutas never counter Thors. Not even with Magic Box. You still need a quite higher cost of Mutas to kill Thors. You often need a higher cost of Mutas to snipe Templar in BW ZvP. That doesn't stop it from being a favorable trade for Zerg. | ||
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Phrencys
Canada270 Posts
Zerg can 6-10 pool if he wants to. A protoss can 10pylon+10 double gates and then chrono boost zeals. 9rax reaper and 9-11rax marines were the only cheese threat of Terran. Without this threat, everyone will be able to FE with impunity vs Terran. They could've upped the Queen's ground range or something instead if Terran's rush sounded too strong vs Zerg. As for Protoss, they do have safe builds already. If they systematically go for some kind of FE, then their greed should be punishable. | ||
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kojinshugi
Estonia2559 Posts
On October 08 2010 04:21 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Except mass Mutas don't -actually- counter equal cost of even pure Thors with magic box :3 Add a handful of Marines and it's even more lol. Or is counter now defined as "my one Thor can't rape 20 Mutas in one volley now! It's countered!" -__- So basically Terran units can hard counter Zerg units (cause let's face it, no amount of micro is gonna make a Hydralisk match up against a Marine [is that even supposed to be a counter lol] or a Roach against a Marauder), but we can't have it the other way? Who spams 10 thors to counter mutas? I don't think one Thor should kill 20 mutas in one volley, but a handful of mutas shouldn't roflpwn marineless thors either. Mutas are retardedly fast and kill workers like nothing else. En masse they really don't seem harmed by turrets either. The only thing I have that kills mutas reliably is stimmed marines and that doesn't really fit into mech builds that well. Leave thors as is, but buff turrets v light, imo. Or give them splash. | ||
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