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Baa?21244 Posts
On October 08 2010 04:29 kojinshugi wrote:
Who spams 10 thors to counter mutas?
I don't think one Thor should kill 20 mutas in one volley, but a handful of mutas shouldn't roflpwn marineless thors either.
They don't. Did you not read? Mutas do NOT beat Thors cost for cost. Ever.
Mutas are retardedly fast and kill workers like nothing else. En masse they really don't seem harmed by turrets either.
They definitely are. When you fly in a group of Mutas, if there's more than a lone Turret, you're almost guaranteed to lose a Muta just because they die so fast to Turrets now.
The only thing I have that kills mutas reliably is stimmed marines and that doesn't really fit into mech builds that well.
Leave thors as is, but buff turrets v light, imo. Or give them splash.
ROFL.
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On October 08 2010 04:30 SoLaR[i.C] wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 04:29 Sqq wrote:On October 08 2010 04:29 SoLaR[i.C] wrote:
So how does a <50% win rate for TvZ call for things like supply depot changes and roach range increases? because those stats from the ladders are total bull-fucking-shit. How do you figure?
because you are matched up to keep a 50% win \ lose ratio ? If you got Z,Z,Z and you won all those then you get a high end T, you're Terran match up would be flawed because you don't know how good you do against him
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On October 08 2010 04:30 SoLaR[i.C] wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 04:29 Sqq wrote:On October 08 2010 04:29 SoLaR[i.C] wrote:
So how does a <50% win rate for TvZ call for things like supply depot changes and roach range increases? because those stats from the ladders are total bull-fucking-shit. How do you figure?
Any evidence that confirms your prejudged ideas is true.
Any evidence that debunks your prejudged ideas is total bull-fucking-shit.
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Make Reapers 2 supplies, cost 75/75 and Nitro Packs cost 100/100.
No need for this supply depot first and factory requirement for nitro nonsense.
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United States47024 Posts
On October 08 2010 04:31 floor exercise wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 04:28 TheYango wrote:On October 08 2010 04:22 floor exercise wrote:
Supply before barracks is just the biggest joke of a fix ever, completely limits build options and choice just to fix one stupid unit. I'd say making Nexus before Gateway, CC before Rax, and Hatch before Pool viable openings that don't auto-lose to reapers is a little more than "fixing one stupid unit". Reaper being the primary issue, not barracks before supply
Fair enough.
TBH, I think removing reapers from the game entirely would have been a much more elegant solution, but I doubt Blizzard would do that.
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Interesting changes, although the depot before rax thing feels like such a clutch change. But I don't get the impression hatcheries will get more hp like everyone is hoping for, just the tech structures.
I wish they'd buff the hydralisk a bit though, roaches were already used way more often and now the roach is getting buffed.
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I think this somewhat fixes marauders in TvZ. Buildings with more hp, roach with more range. Marauder will be slightly less effective against those 2. Stim might still be strong but now buildings will be strong aswell xD (hopefully).
Also the low amount of zerg players could indicate that only those who successfully learned to deal with all the T openings stayed with the race and therefore the remaining zergs are now doing decently. But that's speculation.
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I'd definitely support removing reapers from the game. I thought they could have been cool units but it's clear that Blizzard does not have any idea how to handle them. Now it's starting to impact non-reaper play, and is causing stupid changes like needing a supply before rax.
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Well I guess i ll have to forget about building a depot at a chock point , or I ll see a gazillion number of probe coming to deny it
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Making reapers 75/75 OR making them cost 2 supply would be a more appropriate change as opposed to the depot-->barracks or factory-->nitro packs.
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Roach buff is too huge in my opinion.
Roach with speed already beat stalkers... now with range... they dont even need speed + they will be able to crush any FE...
Nice balancing blizzard... You make roach too viable.. and reaper never viable
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the supply depot is only reducing creativity which is bad
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On October 08 2010 04:33 kojinshugi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 04:28 Seam wrote:
Mutas never counter Thors. Not even with Magic Box. You still need a quite higher cost of Mutas to kill Thors. It's not like you're gonna use mutas to counter the main mech ball. The point is that once mutas hit around the 7-8 mark they roflstomp small numbers of thors left to defend bases, even if there's turrets. Mech is slow enough as it is.
8 Mutas won't kill 2 thors, or if they do it'll be very close.
8 Mutas will have trouble with 2 turrets.
8 Mutas WILL die to "small numbers of thors left to defend the bases, even if theres turrets". You most likely wouldn't lose a single thor.
You need about 4 mutas to a turret, and around 4-5 to a Thor. Yes, even with the magic box.
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On October 08 2010 01:21 GTR wrote:Show nested quote +The Barracks are going to require a Supply Depot, which will impact a lot of early terran reaper pushes. This is stupid.
You could read it as the barrack requiring a supply depot to build a tech depot, not to build the barrack itself. This would "impact a lot of early terran reaper pushes" more than a general change to proxy barracks.
Like Nazgul wrote we should really wait and see. Somehow I doubt they would remove the posibility of proxy barracks.
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On October 08 2010 04:29 kojinshugi wrote:
Leave thors as is, but buff turrets v light, imo. Or give them splash.
Buff Turrets?
Screw it... you can have your Reapers back, and your supply-less Barracks.
Seriously... 1 Turret can fend off 4 Mutas. Any more than that, and you should be building counters to your opponents airborne army. Give them splash? You mean make Turrets into scarier Thors? No thanks.
Turrets scare me much more than Thors as it is. Until you can no less than 3 shot a Turret, I don't engage. (doesn't mean I won't fly around and pick off what I can, though)
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On October 08 2010 04:34 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
They don't. Did you not read? Mutas do NOT beat Thors cost for cost. Ever.
"Cost for cost" is a specious argument. Mutas are harassment units and they're too strong against slow mech. There's no good counter to them except critical masses of stimmed marines, or building retarded amounts of turrets.
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On October 08 2010 04:34 Zelniq wrote:
depot before rax requirement is silly and unnecessary however I'm not exactly worried for terrans as even w/o reapers they still have sooo many options for the early game in all matchups
roach change..im really shocked/impressed by blizzard to do something like that.. i'd never even considered that as something they might/should do. all the talk about zerg feeling limited in options early on especially for attacking.. suddenly seems less of an issue as I think most kinds of effective aggression from zerg early would involve roaches.
the range increase should change so many aspects of the game, im really excited to play the patch
as for reapers, clearly it shows they're struggling with figuring out what its purpose is and as day9/idra were saying in SotG podcast, they should just remove the unit from the game if they want to keep it as soley a unit for harassment/raids/scouting.
i personally think they should change its stats/mechanics/build times/cost so that they could be more useful as part of main army additions or somehow more useful in the later stages of the game.
Yeah dude the roach needed a buff but i never thought it would happen. i'm hoping they are range 4 and not 3.5 4 means they can attack depots without being hit by a marine in back giving them a legitimate way to pressure a wall in. stalkers and marauders would still be able to hit as long as they weren't too far back. so happy for this too, except now i need to make roaches (ugh). and i feel like reaper should get some sort of maneuevering passive, like they reduce any splash damage they take to 5 or something. since they are al fast enough to runa way. that would make them useful in TvT, in TvP, and in TvZ (vs banes) and allow terran to use them in a niche. (to assault behind tanks,collosus,baneling balls)
On October 08 2010 04:33 blade55555 wrote:
Well its true that its from ladder. Tournament results imo mean more then if the ladder is at a 50% win/loss ratio.
they announced this post GSL so maybe they took the stats from that tournament, where ZvT is 50% balanced, PvZ is heavily in favor of P and TvP is heavily in favor of T.
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LOL when i read the balance change idea i was like :
OMG THEY WANT TO BALANCE TEAMGAMES LULULULUL
Srysl ... Thats rly terrible for 1v1 ... but 8pool + early reaper just dominates teamgames
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The problem is these 3v3 4v4 idiots that might be complaining about reapers being too viable in their games. stop playing team games and start playing 1v1 so that Browder will stop checking if you guys are alright..
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Everything sounds so effing awesome, can't wait for this to get implemented! 
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I just saw that they even are going to put nitro packs at factory...LOL. LOL BLIZZARD!!
No...seriously...what the fuck? So let me see this logic...they completely buff roaches so that no one will ever build a reaper early game...and then they move the upgrade that makes reapers faster require a factory...
So now...you can upgrade your reapers that you never made to be faster? wtf?
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EPT
