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On October 08 2010 03:45 emythrel wrote:
I've been proxy gated enough to know that pylon first isn't hindering toss doing cheese, so why should it stop terran? If you really want to proxy rax then just drop a supply in ur base while your SCV is on its way to ur proxy location...... logic?
Don't see a problem either with SD before rax. I do see a problem with nitro packs on factory.
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On October 08 2010 04:41 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 04:39 JHancho wrote:On October 08 2010 04:29 kojinshugi wrote:
Leave thors as is, but buff turrets v light, imo. Or give them splash. Buff Turrets? Screw it... you can have your Reapers back, and your supply-less Barracks. Seriously... 1 Turret can fend off 4 Mutas. Any more than that, and you should be building counters to your opponents airborne army. Give them splash? You mean make Turrets into scarier Thors? No thanks. Turrets scare me much more than Thors as it is. Until you can no less than 3 shot a Turret, I don't engage. (doesn't mean I won't fly around and pick off what I can, though) Turrets can hold off like 8 muta if repaired I know it can hold off 10 if the turrets being repaired 
Turrets are OP as it is, T Anti-Air in general is, at least against Zerg (okay, Vikings not against Mutas, but Broodlords), so whats the Problem? Oh and Ghosts tear apart every Zerg Air-Unit, why doesn't any1 use them?
But I do think the reaper-nerf is abit harsh, but T has more than enough strats early on, so mass-reapers not being that good anymore won't hurt T at all - no1 has been playing them since the slight change anyways.
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lol how is terran going to stop 6pool? all I wanted was a little bit of firebear nerf...
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blizzard just pissed all over their 1v1 balance in favor of the crybabies in team games. now terran wont be able to stop hatch first and reapers are effectively deleted from the game. this just makes TvZ even more one dimensional when it was just beginning to have a meta shift.
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On October 08 2010 01:22 Raevin wrote:Show nested quote +I don't know much about playing terran but from the sound of it making supply depot a prereq for barracks is just stupid... Protoss already need a finished Pylon before they can construct This will only have impact super early game, as soon as 1 depot is done you can make as many Rax as you want
Ya, and Protoss =/= Terran. I dont understand why people use this type of logic to justify things. Just because one race does it one way doesnt mean it should be that way for all other races. Should my depots get to fly as well cause overlords do? Should I be able to start warping in marauders next to my depots (which would be AWESOME btw) just because thats how toss works? No, its a stupid change, but I like that they are playing around and looking for things to change.
I guess the biggest problem I have is that this eliminates barracks first which is so strong against hatch first openings from zerg. Also, no reaper speed until factory probably means no reapers at all
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I like everything except maybe reaper nerf - I didn't find them to be unbeatable.
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lol these are some pretty big changes in one patch
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While Blizzard will do what they want, their use of statistics to back up their reasoning doesn't seem right.
Win rate for Terran fighting Protoss:
Diamond - 50.4%
Platinum - 43.7%
Gold - 39.0%
Silver - 36.4%
Bronze - 41.0%
Across all ladder skills apart from Diamond (which is pretty much dead even), Protoss are crushing Terran. But hey, let's nerf Terran!
Win rate for Terran fightng Zerg
Diamond - 49.6%
Platinum - 44.5%
Gold - 49.5%
Silver - 51.6%
Bronze - 45.4%
Zergs are beating their equivalent Terrans in everything except Silver league, but hey, let's nerf Terran!
If they have something else to bring forth as evidence, why don't they bring it?
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On October 08 2010 04:48 The6357 wrote:
lol how is terran going to stop 6pool? all I wanted was a little bit of firebear nerf...
with 10depot 12rax like always before? Nothing changed in that regard, how's it more difficult now? Come on....
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all these changes are good changes, other than the supply depot before barracks that one feels wierd to me, i guess blizzard doesnt want cheese as much as possible now.
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I'm concerned with the roach buff along with the reaper nerf...it appears they wanted to fix early reaper harass tvz but they might have swung the pendulum too far in the other direction.
How viable is toss FE with the new range? That style of play always leads to exciting pvz games for me, I hope it stays...
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Anything Blizzard does to remove/reduce cheese is A-OK in my book.
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On October 08 2010 04:50 out4blood wrote:
While Blizzard will do what they want, their use of statistics to back up their reasoning doesn't seem right.
They're not balancing based on statistics alone. Read the entire post.
Zergs are beating their equivalent Terrans in everything except Silver league, but hey, let's nerf Terran!
49.6% is pretty much dead even.
Terran is certainly not weak versus zerg early on. If zerg ends up being too strong versus terran mid-to-late game then they can adjust that accordingly. Right now the development of the matchup is stifled by early game imbalances. Fix that, then fix the rest if it needs fixing.
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United States7166 Posts
there are way too many clueless people in here making statements that are flat out wrong, such as the "14/15 hatch first build is now unstoppable" when depot before rax bunker rushes still are very effective/viable vs hatch first builds. people in general need to stop doing such insane overreaction to patch changes and stop concluding "oh well now X is just impossible" when they havent even bothered to try, or havent tried hard enough to make X work
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2 player maps will be gg for terran every game now. Z already has more zerglings than T has marines early game, and now 9 racks wont even be possible anymore. ill have fun being 8 pooled every single time on a 2 player map.
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intrigue
Washington, D.C9934 Posts
i am very upset at barracks needing a depot. seriously? that is beyond absurd, i can't understand it.
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On October 08 2010 04:47 kojinshugi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 04:39 JHancho wrote:
Buff Turrets?
Screw it... you can have your Reapers back, and your supply-less Barracks.
Seriously... 1 Turret can fend off 4 Mutas. Any more than that, and you should be building counters to your opponents airborne army. Give them splash? You mean make Turrets into scarier Thors? No thanks. Just tested in the map editor and 5 mutas with micro kill a turret without a single casualty. It wouldn't be so bad if they didn't kill workers so damn fast.
Wow, so 500/500 can take out 100/0 with no casualties? Amazing.
Looks like I wasn't too far off with what I was thinking though. How damaged were the Mutas? 1 nearly dead and 1 in yellow?
They do tend to waste workers, yeah.
What about a Turret getting repaired? I bet that number goes up a fair amount.
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Win rate for Terran fightng Zerg
Diamond - 49.6%
Platinum - 44.5%
Gold - 49.5%
Silver - 51.6%
Bronze - 45.4%
Zergs are beating their equivalent Terrans in everything except Silver league, but hey, let's nerf Terran!
I like how you talk about the silver league, when in platinum its more in terran's favor than zerg's favor. You back up a point with statistics that prove your point wrong...
I do agree most of these changes were unnecessary, but MY GOD TERRAN TEARS ARE FUCKING DELICIOUS.
User was warned for this post
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On October 08 2010 04:48 ToxNub wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 03:45 emythrel wrote:
I've been proxy gated enough to know that pylon first isn't hindering toss doing cheese, so why should it stop terran? If you really want to proxy rax then just drop a supply in ur base while your SCV is on its way to ur proxy location...... logic?
Don't see a problem either with SD before rax. I do see a problem with nitro packs on factory.
lol chrono boost + zealot( > 2 marines or 4 zerglings) =/= racks cheese
how can people actually compare toss to terran in this regard.
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On October 08 2010 04:48 The6357 wrote:
lol how is terran going to stop 6pool? all I wanted was a little bit of firebear nerf...
nothing about these changes makes it more difficult to hold a 6 pool.
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EPT
