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shindigs
United States4795 Posts
Ironically they are for Terran via 1-1-1 build. In any case, I would agree that this definitely shuts down the main opening aggressions for Terran such as reaper of Hellion. What I'm hoping is that players take it a step further and go for pure MM timing pushes, which I think would be pretty awesome. | ||
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iEchoic
United States1776 Posts
On October 08 2010 04:10 kojinshugi wrote: They didn't nerf Terran, they nerfed cheesy rax first builds. They buffed Zerg early game, which I'm happy about because all the complaining is really starting to get annoying. 9rax isn't necessarily cheesy. There are many players who open 9rax 10 supply in almost every matchup because they like the faster opening into bio. I don't see why the possibility to do this should be removed. Do you feel that 9rax 10 supply was hurting the game? | ||
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FrostedMiniWeet
United States636 Posts
On October 08 2010 04:11 SLush wrote: We should start a thread that collect terrans tears now. It would still pale in comparison to the ocean of Zerg tears that have been shed already. Terran had it coming. Even with this nerf, Terran will still be the majority race in top 100 diamond. | ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
1) reduce the damage that marauders do vs buildings (which will be hard because if u nerf their armored damage they suffer vs units too) 2) nerf conc. shells by adding a cooldown or something.. at least something that allows ur unit to escape after the 1st shot 3) reduce the MULE's lifespan 4) there has to be something done to PDD's, i dunno what tho 5) decrease the ghost EMP radius and decrease the ghost cost (to at least 100 or 125 gas) Ahahaha, come on now - this is overkill. By a LOT - especially if you arent going to nerf protoss in any way. I dunno about the banshee change, itd be annoying if they didnt 2 hit marines now that marines are so much better (tank nerf). | ||
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seiferoth10
3362 Posts
Roach range, increase in overlord speed, and some way to deal with tank drop, and IMHO Zerg would be in a good position. | ||
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Hypatio
549 Posts
Hopefully they'll take a look at mutas in ZvT though. Magic boxing them just makes turrets/thors somewhat impotent at dealing with them, and running around with mass rines against infestors/blings makes me cry. Magic box does nothing vs. turrets. Turrets are way better in SC2 than they were in SC1 whereas mutas have been left virtually unchanged. Also, it's good that thors are not the insta-muta kill. Get marines and have fun obliterating mutas with a third of the cost. | ||
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On October 08 2010 04:14 shindigs wrote: Ironically they are for Terran via 1-1-1 build. In any case, I would agree that this definitely shuts down the main opening aggressions for Terran such as reaper of Hellion. What I'm hoping is that players take it a step further and go for pure MM timing pushes, which I think would be pretty awesome. If by awesome you mean vomit inducingly lame then yes  ! I sense a lil bit of sarcasm in your post so Im assuming that is indeed what you meant lol | ||
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zhouzhou
Canada138 Posts
Reapers will still have their place in the game. They're being used for way too much right now. They're the only unit that could ignore terrain so early into the game. Now they're going to be adjusted to what they're supposed to do. Which is harass and scout, not win the game. In the heat of battle, send 3 reapers to their mineral line to 1 shot workers. Or a few more and snipe off critical buildings. They're extremely strong when it comes to killing off light units and sniping buildings. You'll see top players make reapers every now and then to scout and harass. People think just because you can't reaper rush, they are useless. Not the case. | ||
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kojinshugi
Estonia2559 Posts
On October 08 2010 04:08 BlueChipKiwi wrote: "These numbers take individual player skill into account" This is a really interesting statement. It'd be interesting to know how they calculate this. Is this based on win/loss vs other players? If so, then it would already have bias built in. It means they only consider matches within a certain MMR range instead of the entire league, i.e. not a 500 diamond playing a 1500 diamond. | ||
Zelniq
United States7166 Posts
On October 08 2010 04:11 Liquid`Jinro wrote: Because overcoming counters with micro was a huge part of SC1 and it fucking sucks when that is removed from the game. Thors counter mutas but with magic box, mutas do fine. Lurkers counter marines but with good micro, marines do fine. Are both pretty terrible, and you cant even turbo-newb on like 90% of the map pool. hellions still counter speedlings w/ micro, hellions w/ micro are still 10x more effective than non microed hellions they didnt totally remove it from the game and you dont even know if hellions can outmicro roaches still or not | ||
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BlasiuS
United States2405 Posts
On October 08 2010 04:11 Liquid`Jinro wrote: Are both pretty terrible, and you cant even turbo-newb on like 90% of the map pool. plenty of high-level players do early viking harass (and win), so it's definitely viable, and therefore not terrible. And you can turbo-newb on LT and DQ, that's 2 out of 9. And you can tank your opponents mineral line from right outside his rocks on Shakuras Plateau; not quite a turbo-newb, but basically forces you to break your own rocks every game against T. | ||
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Pekkz
Norway1505 Posts
On October 08 2010 04:10 iEchoic wrote: 3rax - terrible mass marine - terrible The rest of those are t3 units, not early aggression. I'm a terran player and I thought the nerfs in the last patch were fine, you can even look at my post history. The tank nerf was great, the reaper nerf was great. This shit is just stupid though. Almost nobody that is actually good likes these changes, so far almost everyone for them has been gold level zerg players that think imbalance is holding them back. Supply before rax? Seriously? I feel like I'm playing WoW. Terran doesn't have 10 TvZ openings, there are essentially two - reaper and hellion. Almost every good T player uses one of these two openings, with very few exceptions. Nobody that is good likes this changes? Only seen jinro and zelniq in this thread that can be considerd good, and they have different opininons..... I think the supply depot before rax is overkill myself, since roach>reaper and reaper speed after factory. They only put that in there for team games and that is pretty retarded. However, the terran whine in here cus of a 1 range upgrade on roach will make hellions useless is so retarded. You lost reaper opening, and 10 rax bunker shit. Deal with it. | ||
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Winter_mute
Germany40 Posts
On October 08 2010 04:08 BlueChipKiwi wrote: "These numbers take individual player skill into account" This is a really interesting statement. It'd be interesting to know how they calculate this. Is this based on win/loss vs other players? If so, then it would already have bias built in. I am still WTFing about that expression. "Individual player skill"? What is my individual player skill? Square root of 2? Over 9000? Half past four? And as you said if they just take the MMR and only compare games of players with equal MMR, then this thing is indeed biased. Because that so called "player skill" would consist of "real skill * race bonus/malus". If I am not making a mistake here, then: For all players with the same MMR rating ((Winratio of Matchup 1 * frequency of occurence of that matchup) + (Winratio of Matchup 2 * frequency of occurence of that matchup) + (Winratio of Matchup 3 * frequency of occurence of that matchup)) / 3 = 50% | ||
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Sv1
United States204 Posts
seige damage/depot before rax. I mean, yes depot is usually first anyway so it isn't a huge deal. As for reaper nerf, they basically put reapers on the table when they buffed them before the game went live with the reduction to the upgrade cost, they can't have their cake and eat it too! Reapers won't become completely extinct, but it looks like they're going the way of the 250mm cannon. | ||
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Arcanne
United States1519 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21244 Posts
On October 08 2010 04:11 Liquid`Jinro wrote: Because overcoming counters with micro was a huge part of SC1 and it fucking sucks when that is removed from the game. Thors counter mutas but with magic box, mutas do fine. Lurkers counter marines but with good micro, marines do fine. Except mass Mutas don't -actually- counter equal cost of even pure Thors with magic box :3 Add a handful of Marines and it's even more lol. Or is counter now defined as "my one Thor can't rape 20 Mutas in one volley now! It's countered!" -__- So basically Terran units can hard counter Zerg units (cause let's face it, no amount of micro is gonna make a Hydralisk match up against a Marine [is that even supposed to be a counter lol] or a Roach against a Marauder), but we can't have it the other way? | ||
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kojinshugi
Estonia2559 Posts
On October 08 2010 04:11 Liquid`Jinro wrote: Because overcoming counters with micro was a huge part of SC1 and it fucking sucks when that is removed from the game. Thors counter mutas but with magic box, mutas do fine. Calling magic boxing micro is a bit of a stretch imo. It's like attack moving except you don't hit A. | ||
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monterto
Canada103 Posts
Agree 100% I think they are trying to balance the teamplay matchups. Like it matters... | ||
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DigitalD[562]
United States80 Posts
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mardi
United States1164 Posts
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