EPTWith any race but Terran, you mean. :D
Blizzard on 1v1 Balancing and the new patch - Page 42
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JHancho
United States166 Posts
With any race but Terran, you mean. :D | ||
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Senx
Sweden5901 Posts
This is not fair!!! Oh wait, this is actually great news. | ||
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BlueChipKiwi
United States46 Posts
This is a really interesting statement. It'd be interesting to know how they calculate this. Is this based on win/loss vs other players? If so, then it would already have bias built in. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
Aren't supposed to be early aggression*. T gets them so fast that they still are, though. For instance you can still blue-flame drop into mech and so on. If it saddens you you can't place your CC directly at your natural off one Hellion against a Zerg building units that counter Hellions, well... that's unfortunate. | ||
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Bitters
Canada303 Posts
should zerg complain about how with extra micro their lings should be able to mess with blue-flame hellions? terrans units which were designed to counter zerg do a great job at their counter... now zerg's counters are being made to measure up | ||
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iEchoic
United States1776 Posts
On October 08 2010 04:08 BlasiuS wrote: 3rax hellion/banshee fast cloak banshee hellion/marauder hellion/igniter hellion drop mass marine fast viking turbo-newb (tank drop on cliff) 3rax - terrible mass marine - terrible The rest of those are t3 units, not early aggression. On October 08 2010 04:08 Pekkz wrote: Everyone agreed that zerg needed a buff. When actuall changes comes, people start to whine. I think pretty much anything could have been buffed and people would still be outraged. Reaper is dead. Ok that removes one of 10 openings. 10 rax is dead. Ok that removes two of 10 opening. So? EVERYONE agreed that terran had too many openings and thats what made them so friggin good. Roach range is a much needed buff to make something before muta counter mass helllions. You can basicly make only hellions+expand and be safe against anything zerg can do. In addition you allmost allways burn a ton of drones with em aswell. I'm a terran player and I thought the nerfs in the last patch were fine, you can even look at my post history. The tank nerf was great, the reaper nerf was great. This shit is just stupid though. Supply before rax? Seriously? I feel like I'm playing WoW. Terran doesn't have 10 TvZ openings, there are essentially two - reaper and hellion. Almost every good T player uses one of these two openings, with very few exceptions. | ||
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kojinshugi
Estonia2559 Posts
On October 08 2010 03:58 ffdestiny wrote: So their statistics point to an overwhelming Protoss imbalance in almost all match-ups, and then they nerf Terran? I seriously just had to break out in pathetic laughter. They didn't nerf Terran, they nerfed cheesy rax first builds. They buffed Zerg early game, which I'm happy about because all the complaining is really starting to get annoying. Hopefully they'll take a look at mutas in ZvT though. Magic boxing them just makes turrets/thors somewhat impotent at dealing with them, and running around with mass rines against infestors/blings makes me cry. | ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On October 08 2010 04:09 Bitters wrote: why are people complaining about how much further roaches now counter hellions? they are suppose to counter them! should zerg complain about how with extra micro their lings should be able to mess with blue-flame hellions? terrans units which were designed to counter zerg do a great job at their counter... now zerg's counters are being made to measure up Because overcoming counters with micro was a huge part of SC1 and it fucking sucks when that is removed from the game. Thors counter mutas but with magic box, mutas do fine. Lurkers counter marines but with good micro, marines do fine. fast viking turbo-newb (tank drop on cliff) Are both pretty terrible, and you cant even turbo-newb on like 90% of the map pool. | ||
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ROOTslush
Canada170 Posts
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intergalactic
Canada428 Posts
I am predicting a shift towards Zerg dominance after this patch. Not only because they will be much stronger, but because this will make more players switch for the swarm. But who am I to predict anything. | ||
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GreyFoxMe
Sweden36 Posts
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TT1
Canada10045 Posts
''We're increasing roach range. This will allow roaches to be more effective in large groups, giving the zerg more options in the mid to end game.'' a rediculous change, roachs were already super cheap.. now their just going to be an insanely cost effecient unit ''Fungal Growth will now prevent Blink, which will give zerg a way to stop endlessly Blinking stalkers which can be very challenging to deal with in large numbers.'' i actually love this change, something had to be done in order for z to defend vs blink stalkers.. this change alone was enought to make zvp more competitive imo ''The Barracks are going to require a Supply Depot, which will impact a lot of early terran reaper pushes. '' the most retarded change ever lol, this takes away from alot of the ingame mental warfare.. i have no idea why blizzard decided to make this change seeing as they already nerfed the reap speed upgrade, personally i never had an issue vs rax - supply reap rushs(and from my zvt experience i was able to defend vs this b.o.. albeit my zvt experience was very limited, i still managed to play at least 100 zvts), horrible horrible change(i honestly think this decision was influenced more on 2v2 rather than 1v1, reap proxys + ling pressure was super strong to defend against in 2v2..its actually kinda dissapointing to see 2v2 gameplay influencing 1v1 gameplay, i guess blizzard wants to keep every aspect of their game competitive) ''The reaper speed upgrade will require the Factory, which is meant to weaken a lot of the early terran reaper attacks that dominate so many matches, especially in team games. '' excellent change, this fixs the 2v2 issue of tz being insanely imbalanced because of early game map control with ling/reaps and at the same time it weakens early reap pressure in tvz ''We're making a number of increases to the health of zerg buildings, which will make the very vulnerable zerg technology structures more resistant to raids. We don’t expect these hit point changes to have a super significant impact on the game, but the current numbers felt way too low. '' ok change, 2g zeal rushs already got raped with the zeal nerf so this doesnt have much of an impact in pvz IMO these are these are the main problems that blizzard needs to focus on: 1) reduce the damage that marauders do vs buildings (which will be hard because if u nerf their armored damage they suffer vs units too) 2) nerf conc. shells by adding a cooldown or something.. at least something that allows ur unit to escape after the 1st shot 3) reduce the MULE's lifespan 4) there has to be something done to PDD's, i dunno what tho 5) decrease the ghost EMP radius and decrease the ghost cost (to at least 100 or 125 gas) 6) reduce banshee damage 7) increase the casting energy of infested terrans and increase the infested terrans movement speed(infestors) obv most of the issues that i brought up were from a protoss players perspetive, the main issue in pvt is that t is too strong in the early game because of the variety/facility/cost efficiency of their techs(this is more of problem than the late game strenght of p in pvt because the majority of sc2 games tend to be short, at least they tend to end before p hits that strenght period in the lategame) that they can hit and p is too strong in the late game because of the lack of unit variety that t has(p techs are hard to hit but once we do its hard for t to do anything), t needs a nerf to their early game and some sort of buff to their late game, one things for sure.. i wouldnt want to be in blizz's position right now | ||
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Ancient.eu
Romania621 Posts
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Bitters
Canada303 Posts
On October 08 2010 04:10 iEchoic wrote: 3rax - terrible mass marine - terrible The rest of those are t3 units, not early aggression. I'm a terran player and I thought the nerfs in the last patch were fine, you can even look at my post history. The tank nerf was great, the reaper nerf was great. This shit is just stupid though. Almost nobody that is actually good likes these changes, so far almost everyone for them has been gold level zerg players that think imbalance is holding them back. Supply before rax? Seriously? I feel like I'm playing WoW. Terran doesn't have 10 TvZ openings, there are essentially two - reaper and hellion. Almost every good T player uses one of these two openings, with very few exceptions. its a good thing you can see all of our leagues/points here to say that everyone who disagrees with you is a gold player... | ||
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BlasiuS
United States2405 Posts
On October 08 2010 04:10 iEchoic wrote: The rest of those are t3 units, not early aggression. If by T3 you mean starport, then you're completely wrong, starport IS early aggression. | ||
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Tazza
Korea (South)1678 Posts
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Yeld
Austria106 Posts
"Zealots take 5 secs more to build? Protoss will lose to rushes every game! D:" "Terran need to build a depot before Rax? Terran is DEAD! D:" The overreactions to every single patchchange really are as predictable as they are silly . Did you notice that they usually turn out 100% ok after the patch is out and no one is complaining? | ||
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Bitters
Canada303 Posts
On October 08 2010 04:11 Liquid`Jinro wrote: Because overcoming counters with micro was a huge part of SC1 and it fucking sucks when that is removed from the game. Thors counter mutas but with magic box, mutas do fine. Lurkers counter marines but with good micro, marines do fine. Are both pretty terrible, and you cant even turbo-newb on like 90% of the map pool. that's a fair point. but with the extra range, could you not still try to speed by the roaches to do some harass instead of trying to fight head on? (honest question) | ||
Zelniq
United States7166 Posts
On October 08 2010 04:02 iEchoic wrote: What other early game aggression is there besides reapers and hellions? yes these are all early game dude not "tier 3" wtf? what matters is how early they come not how high their tech is harass banshees cloaked banshees vikings thor drops marine bunker rush (still effective vs hatch first builds even with depot first builds, i would know) thor drops on cliff tank drops on cliff vikings on cliff 1 base allin-ish attacks, there's too many to name so i'll just name a few: marine/tank/banshee thor/banshee/scv thor/hellion/scv thor/anything/scv marauder/hellion (roach range really is not the issue) marine/medivac/tank attacks marine/medivac/marauder drops marine/medivac/hellion drops (see check's gsl game on scrap station) | ||
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kojinshugi
Estonia2559 Posts
And T2 units are? Terran can get a banshee out around the 7-8 minute mark, which is around when you'd have enough hellions. Actually you can pretty much get both at the same time. One or two banshees rushed out to harass don't really count as "T3", because you don't have the income to support continual production. Toss void ray rushes take about the same amount of time and are about the same investment in tech. EDIT: FYI I'm a Terran. TvZ is my worst matchup (because I never go reapers), I certainly don't have a fish to fry here. | ||
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