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Cranberries
Wales567 Posts
On October 08 2010 03:02 Shikyo wrote: Ehh I'm thinking 3.5 which would be enough for both Reapers and Hellions to not survive unscratched, it it's 4 there might be some balance issues. It'll be range 4. Range 4 is fair. Hellions still have a +1 range, and could still kite Roaches. | ||
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Darpa
Canada4413 Posts
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
except in team games. But team games shouldn't factor in at all to balancing decisions. Balancing around 2v2, 3v3 and 4v4 is moronic. | ||
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Mantikor
United States68 Posts
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greycubed
United States615 Posts
On October 08 2010 03:01 Malminos wrote: You mean the way they tested the ultra changes in 1.1 and 1.1.1? Blizzard obviously has tested the new supply depot-barracks thing a ton. I'm sure the first thing they tested was it VS a 6pool. I'm sure it'll be fine. | ||
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acie
United States247 Posts
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Intropy
Canada92 Posts
Also depending on the magnitude of the roach range upgrade it might be highly significant in ZvP in circumstances where P forge FEs in that it may no longer be possible for P to place their cannons outside the range of roaches. Though it remains to be seen if this is the case, if it is it will be highly unfortunate as it forces P into more boring one base plays. Overall these kinds of subtle changes are not what will improve the relative number of players who choose Zerg. What Zerg needs are fun new mechanics that make the race exciting and interesting (the kind of changes like faster overlords that can spread creep while moving like we saw in the fake patch notes before 1.1). The changes Blizzard is proposing only serve to constrain matchups and stagnate the game. Yes it will give Zerg an edge, but it will not make them fundamentally more appealing to people who found Zerg alienating to begin with, and these changes come at a big cost to gameplay diversity. | ||
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TurboDreams
United States427 Posts
On October 08 2010 03:03 Woony wrote: Maybe they don't want Terran to be the "needs to be in the opponents face all the time to be effective" race anymore? Could be, I don't know but I think it's ridiculous, people want something, they get it and now they cry about it. Shows how you can't take the communitys QQ as a measure for balancing. They kinda have to be the in your face race since they have no ability to power workers at all. Mule helps equalize but its not a long term ability like spawn larva and chronoboost | ||
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Cink
United States93 Posts
On October 08 2010 03:03 Woony wrote: Maybe they don't want Terran to be the "needs to be in the opponents face all the time to be effective" race anymore? Could be, I don't know but I think it's ridiculous, people want something, they get it and now they cry about it. Shows how you can't take the communitys QQ as a measure for balancing. If terran can't harass zerg early they will be completely out econ'd. If zerg can drone freely with the FE they can grab their third pretty fast as well with a decent sized army to support it. | ||
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greycubed
United States615 Posts
On October 08 2010 03:04 Mantikor wrote: 5RR is about showing roaches (forcing marauders, etc) and then going something else. Wait why do these buffs kill 5RR? | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On October 08 2010 03:04 Cranberries wrote: It'll be range 4. Range 4 is fair. Hellions still have a +1 range, and could still kite Roaches. Nah, they couldn't because their startup time is too slow. Another thing I just realized is that this will make mass Roach the ONLY ZvZ build... sigh -_- | ||
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leecH
Germany385 Posts
this changed in lower platinum for me. here terrans acutually start to produce non stop. this causes the -10% win percantage against protoss for the terrans in my very humble opinion. defeat a 1A terran is harder now because in diamond they actually do macro. no offense its just what ive seen the games ive played. | ||
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xinxy
Canada116 Posts
However I think the changes list is not exhaustive. There might be some more. | ||
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Celadan
Norway471 Posts
But what would have been cool had been to remove warp gates and give toss back their dragoons, for no other reason that they are cooler  And Blizzard shouldnt try to alter WHAT strats players are going but rather the STRENGHT of the diferent strats. Loosing to cheese is not imbalance, its rather the lack of scouting it in time. | ||
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SpaceYeti
United States723 Posts
And Depot requirement for rax is really really weird. Don't like it at all. | ||
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Bitters
Canada303 Posts
On October 08 2010 03:04 Mantikor wrote: Wait why do these buffs kill 5RR? 5 rax reaper, not 5 roach rush ( i made the same mistake earlier ) | ||
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kasumimi
Greece460 Posts
Can someone explain? I don't understand the "but we need more options argument", unless you are a cheese addict this change has zero impact. I'm not a T user and I'm not trolling, just trying to understand if this change is as bad as people make it out to be. | ||
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gillon
Sweden1578 Posts
On October 08 2010 03:04 Cranberries wrote: It'll be range 4. Range 4 is fair. Hellions still have a +1 range, and could still kite Roaches. They can't because of attack delay. It's already just doable. This change makes hellions unable to kite roaches. Not that I'm saying it's bad or anything, I don't know that yet. What I do know is bad and fucking retarded is the supply depo req for rax and to some extent the speed change for reapers. I mean, you might aswell remove the unit, you're not gonna see a midgame reaper push I promise you that. | ||
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[-]Ocelot[-]
United States256 Posts
At first I was shocked about the depot before rax, and yes it does eliminate super early 7rax proxy reaper rush.. but an additional depot I think isn't huge, and it's something legitimate builds need regardless. New timings will arise and the reapers won't become useless. Zergs will feel safer, as they should, but reapers can still be a problem... Until roach! :D Hell yeah. | ||
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AveiMil
Norway138 Posts
On October 08 2010 03:01 Shikyo wrote: That's not my experience at all, as the upgrades get larger T units actually have a bigger and bigger advantage because their units tend to gain more dmg per upgrade so the opposing armor upgrades aren't as powerful. Off the top of my head the ret vs Morrow game: http://www.sc2rep.com/replays/download?id=1281 ...where ret defends vs early reapers almost perfectly and is in a huge lead in the mid/late game can't kill Morrow who turtles and gets PF's, MMM ball, tanks even by using Ultras and Broodlords. Even though that might not be the case for every game, I definitely wouldn't agree that the lategame is hugely in Z's favor. @Jinro Yeah I understand, but I still think that Hellions should be viable. You just might need to open with a Hellion drop or something like that, both tanks and Thors are still quite strong vs Roaches. Marauder-mech should still be possible if Roaches turn out to be too strong. Thanks for the replay, I'll check it out. Though it is worth mentioning that Morrow is one of the best players around and even if he pulls it off it doesn't mean "Terran often wins late game". I've seen almost all the TvZ replays that go up at sc2rep.net and every single Terran seem to struggle mid/late game unless they've damaged their eco heavily early on. Please provide me with more replays of Terran winning the late game though, maybe I can learn something  | ||
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