Nice changes. I don't really know enough about the Supply Depot->Barracks change to comment on it.

I really wish they'd make Neural Parasite useful again, though...

GGTeMpLaR

United States7226 Posts

October 07 2010 16:27 GMT

#46

-roaches do have really terrible range and this should help zergs out a lot (hopefully not too much)

-fungal growth stopping blink seems reasonable

-supply depo before rax personally doesn't bother me (not just because I never really open with it anyways) because it was mostly a cheesy opening to begin with

it also eliminates one of the openings terran has and if so many people are complaining it has too many openings, this should be a relief to them very much so. i just hope this doesn't eliminate the terran's ability to proxy rush because protoss still have said ability and zerg still have 6-pool (it probably won't though)

-this seems like a laughable change because who honestly builds reapers by the time your factory is up anyways and the barracks change seems like it already addresses early reaper-cheesing. i think they may have over-nerfed reapers but i never really used them anyways so i'm not complaining

-as long as they don't over-do it i don't really have too much of a problem with this change either

overall, pretty decent decisions so far, keep it up blizz

tofucake

Hyrule19188 Posts

October 07 2010 16:28 GMT

#47

On October 08 2010 01:21 GTR wrote:

Show nested quote +

This is stupid.

Zerg changes, I agree with. Nitro Packs requiring Factory...iffy.

But I wholeheartedly agree. Barracks requiring Supply Depot is completely idiotic.

Seam

United States1093 Posts

October 07 2010 16:28 GMT

#48

On October 08 2010 01:27 Uhh Negative wrote:
Wow a roach range increase. This is huge! I don't think speed reapers are really a big deal anymore but I guess it's nice that 5RR won't really be viable anymore, especially factoring in the roach range as well. I'm assuming roach range will be 4?

Would make sense, I don't see then giving a HUGE roach buff...(It's still huge, but not HUGE)

But I've been wrong before.

Raevin

246 Posts

October 07 2010 16:28 GMT

#49

Question is: Who is going to be bothering with Hydras now?

They are made out of paper and die too easily, going mass Roach against Toss now will never be a "bad idea". Not like Storm or Colossi are going to do all that much

Djeez

543 Posts

October 07 2010 16:28 GMT

#50

Stop saying the reapers will now be useless. It's true somewhat that they won't be the massive threat they were early game, but you can still use them mid-late game. For some reason nobody can conceive of making reapers mid-late game... but I know qxc does. When your opponent has 3 bases, maybe even 4 with zerg, and his units aren't spread out reapers can actually be really effective. Arguably more effective than early game, when you only have 1 base to defend.

Thunderflesh

United States382 Posts

October 07 2010 16:28 GMT

#51

On October 08 2010 01:21 GTR wrote:

Show nested quote +

This is stupid.

I agree...

1) Most BOs build a depot first anyway.
2) This will only limit Terran's ability to do fun/cute cheese strats; less variety = bad.
3) In late-game stalemate/base-trade situations, this could be a big problem; e.g., a Terran player has three command centers, but all their rax/depots have been taken out; even though they have plenty of supply, they'll have to built a depot before a rax. blegh. I suppose this might make up for being able to float buildings.

Other than that, this patch looks great!

DaZe

Sweden2111 Posts

October 07 2010 16:28 GMT

#52

Factory needed for nitropack? Hope that is just something they are experimenting with coz that will just make reapers non-existent in all mu's...

JustQuitWarcraftIII

United States679 Posts

October 07 2010 16:29 GMT

#53

They might as well remove the Reapers and add the Medics back in. Then change the Medivacs to normal Dropships.

hoovehand

United Kingdom542 Posts

October 07 2010 16:29 GMT

#54

its not really a terran nerf, it's a huge buff to zerg

MrBitter

United States2940 Posts

October 07 2010 16:29 GMT

#55

Being able to 14 hatch safely vs. Terran might break that matchup... If you look at the stats, It's already even.

Rough days in store for Terran players, imo.

Perscienter

957 Posts

October 07 2010 16:29 GMT

#56

So the cycle currently looks like this:
Win % in Diamond (accounting for player skill)
TvP 50.4%
PvZ 52.8%
ZvT 50.4%

That maps my intuition quite well. Still, there are huge map imbas.

On October 08 2010 01:16 Woony wrote:

Show nested quote +

Nice.

On October 08 2010 01:16 Woony wrote:
The Barracks are going to require a Supply Depot, which will impact a lot of early terran reaper pushes.

The reaper speed upgrade will require the Factory, which is meant to weaken a lot of the early terran reaper attacks that dominate so many matches, especially in team games.

We're making a number of increases to the health of zerg buildings, which will make the very vulnerable zerg technology structures more resistant to raids. We don’t expect these hit point changes to have a super significant impact on the game, but the current numbers felt way too low.

[/QUOTE]
Not so nice. Reapers will be gone and I hope that they aren't talking about spine crawlers, hatcheries and pools. If they will allow any Zerg to get his fe through against Protoss, they will all die to masses of mutalisks.

Chylo

United States220 Posts

October 07 2010 16:29 GMT

#57

Such huge changes between gold and platinum for ZvP, very strange.

52.8% win rate for Protoss when fighting Zerg. (Diamond)

47.3% win rate for Protoss when fighting Zerg. (Plat)

61.1% win rate for Protoss when fighting Zerg. (Gold)

Do all Plat toss 4 gate and none in gold know how to do it? Quite a difference there.

Chronicle

161 Posts

October 07 2010 16:29 GMT

#58

Ok so increasing roach range helps them vs reapers fair enough but why not nerf the reaper range instead? Why do roaches need the extra range, they are good as they are. Now now only are Protoss going to be kited by them all day long it will mean that they will be able to hit cannons 1 space away from Protoss walls, which will make Mass roach really really hard to stop. As for the terran barracks requiring a depo it is pretty silly. Would rather that the Nexus gave off a power field so Protoss has the option of skipping pylons and are not instantly screwed the second their first is sniped.

Overall at least blizzard is "trying" this time, but they still are not hitting the mark.

flyinfart

United States95 Posts

October 07 2010 16:29 GMT

#59

It would be nice if they made void ray require a fleet beacon. Proxy void ray is ridiculous, especially on maps like LT. Otherwise, I can agree with most of their changes. Though, 6pooling/other cheese is going to become way more devastating to terran.

Pekkz

Norway1505 Posts

October 07 2010 16:30 GMT

#60

On October 08 2010 01:27 Biochemist wrote:
I guess no more kiting roaches off creep with the range increase... will reapers be good for anything besides scouting now?

Will also help against hellions. Hell yes!