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On October 08 2010 02:49 Mereel wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 02:41 Sadistx wrote:On October 08 2010 02:39 Mereel wrote:
why so much hate on the depo before rax......i like it.
did u ever play 4v4 vs 3-4 terrans and everyone goes fast reaper......well u lost in the loading screen.
and for 1v1 maybe some players change from onebase every game to some more macro style. No, and that's exactly why that change shouldn't exist. You really have no idea what you're talking about do you? whats wrong with that....everything what i said is right. did u even read the text *.... early terran reaper attacks that dominate so many matches, especially in team games.* abusing the fast reaper is just gimmicky because u dont need skill for that...just abusing the imbalance of the unit. with this change there is one less opener for terran to choose from the other 10. deal with it -.-
You make it sound like reapers are just 1a and win..
Honestly, how often do you see them used mid-game as of now?
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On October 08 2010 02:50 gogogadgetflow wrote:This can't be real. This is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Pool now requires overlord kk.
Zerg spawns with one.
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On October 08 2010 02:48 Graven wrote:
Why the hell is everyone complaining about the Depo/Rax nerf? I've never seen a decent player in a 1v1 game go Rax before Depo.
Maybe that's because you've never played a finalist in the GSL, an $87,000 USD tournament, but they're obviously just scrubs if they went rax before depot.
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both terran nerfs seem silly.
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first thing i did when i read these changes is check the date. i honestly thought it was april fools. and from the sounds of things, they plan on nerfing protoss more when i dont think protoss is the problem. lower level players just cant deal with mass zealots imo =\
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Don't agree with the reaper speed Fac requirement, and I'm zerg.
With roaches equalling reapers range, i know i'll be OK, even if reapers got their speed from scratch.
I like to play against reapers. I love the fact that they force you to place units in odd positions, to plan ambushes, ect. What I hate is that I have nothing to face them and punish them when I'm where i should be.
With the roach range I think it's enough to punish them when I'm in the right place.
Also I have troubles with the depot before rax, as zerg it's not a problem for me when they go 10rax before depot, i can adapt with ease.
But maybe this is more about TvP? Dunno.
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They are going to need to buff the Hydra after this - upgraded range burrow speedroaches will be too insane.
Also supply depot before rax sucks for terran. Also prevents some of their lift-off cheesiness, where they have a few buildings left but then they make production buildings in a corner of the map.
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These changes are awful, wtf, I am having a really hard time believing these are actually real and not just some troll.
Roach range increase is going to destroy hellion opening in TvZ. You can no longer micro well to kill small number of roaches with this +range using early hellions. What exactly are you going to open with in TvZ now if roaches shut down hellions and reapers can't have speed? Reaper and hellion opening would be garbage now. In what way can you apply early pressure to zerg? I don't see any way.
And a supply depot required to have a barracks? This is just going to vastly limit the amount of potential builds. What's wrong with me going 9rax 10supply? There is nothing cheesy or imbalanced about that. This is such a lazy band-aid fix to a couple annoying cheeses.
Terrible, terrible changes if this is actually going to happen.
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On October 08 2010 02:49 Schnullerbacke13 wrote:
KUDOS for roach buff
KUDOS for higher hitpoints on zerg buildings .. gives the Z more time to reenforce when attacked
not so well: depot before barracks.
Better give Z more options instead of removing options from Terran, we don't want to end up all races feeling like Z (few variation in opening). why don't move some upgrades to T1 such as burrow or creep pooping Ovies (Zerg proxy =) ) ? Also the lack of effective Z scouting is not adressed. Faster ovies would allow the Z to better react on those T builds, so maybe this would increase Z chances to counter them.
Imagine every race having as many options as Terran. Would turn into a coinflip game.
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On October 08 2010 02:49 Mereel wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 02:41 Sadistx wrote:On October 08 2010 02:39 Mereel wrote:
why so much hate on the depo before rax......i like it.
did u ever play 4v4 vs 3-4 terrans and everyone goes fast reaper......well u lost in the loading screen.
and for 1v1 maybe some players change from onebase every game to some more macro style. No, and that's exactly why that change shouldn't exist. You really have no idea what you're talking about do you? whats wrong with that....everything what i said is right. did u even read the text *.... early terran reaper attacks that dominate so many matches, especially in team games.* abusing the fast reaper is just gimmicky because u dont need skill for that...just abusing the imbalance of the unit. with this change there is one less opener for terran to choose from the other 10. deal with it -.-
no it eliminates a unit from terran, no use for the reaper anymore...
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I'm just a little bit confused as the main imbalance against zerg according to those statistics they have there is protoss vs zerg. so why is terran getting these exetremely harsh nerfs with no buffs to compensate i mean really. mech has become somewhat useless vs protoss that needs a fix, the roach range buff alone would be enough to deal with reapers quite decissively. plus gas before pool builds pretty much demolish reapers.
if they just gave zerg a better way to scout inside the terrans base without needed to sacrifice an overlord too early on then things with reapers would be fine but i havent seen any zergs flat out lose to reapers in ages. all these terrans nerfs are really making the race bland and basically telling us to just go MMM every matchup every game. dammit i wanna mech vs protoss and not be behind for once. tanks now are pretty useless, battlecruisers now are useless, nobody even nukes anymore, now reapers will be useless. Blizzards idea of sc2 : go MMM of gtfo
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Depot required for Rax makes me happy.
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Canada5565 Posts
Depot before Barracks is too extreme, I think, but besides that, everything sounds really, really good.
Reapers will still be used without speed because they are amazing at early game harass and scouting, especially if positions and build orders put the Terran in a favorable position.
Now that I think about Depot before Barracks a bit more, it will take away some of the options for Terran, which is really why they are so strong.
This will be a much more interesting patch than the last one.
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Though these changes do seem reasonable, I feel that blizzard is taking sc2 in the wrong direction.
They are fixing the issues by directly altering the units and/or buildings to make the decision making process such a no-brainer. I feel it's like a teacher giving you the answers before the test. SC:BW was so good because you needed to be quick witted on top of being skilled. In sc2, it seems that you can just practice one thing over and over and become a skilled player. Blizzard is reducing the creativity aspect, and I think it's negatively effecting some of the community.
A simple solution would be as other's mentioned, revamping units or creating new ones.
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On October 08 2010 02:53 Zato-1 wrote:
Depot required for Rax makes me happy.
Why? Are you sadistic and enjoy watching terran get 6pooled all the time? 
Seriously though 6pool is going to be tough to handle this way.
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On October 08 2010 02:52 iEchoic wrote:
These changes are awful, wtf, I am having a really hard time believing these are actually real and not just some troll.
Roach range increase is going to destroy hellion opening in TvZ. You can no longer micro well to kill small number of roaches with this +range using early hellions. What exactly are you going to open with in TvZ now if roaches shut down hellions and reapers can't have speed? Reaper and hellion opening would be garbage now. In what way can you apply early pressure to zerg? I don't see any way.
And a supply depot required to have a barracks? This is just going to vastly limit the amount of potential builds. What's wrong with me going 9rax 10supply? There is nothing cheesy or imbalanced about that. This is such a lazy band-aid fix to a couple annoying cheeses.
Terrible, terrible changes if this is actually going to happen.
This is EXACTLYYYY what people have complained about for months: Terran has too many openings. Now they do something about it and people cry about it.
Blizzard knows: "What ever you do the result is QQ"
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I don't like the depot change because I will never me able to get away with cc first on scrap station again. They won't fear losing the overlored to a 11rax. But I can see where they are going with it.
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I like the changes, although i think that ZvP is also pretty hard, if not harder than TvT from a zerg point of view.
Also, why not just remove reapers? Not QQing just saying, they are pretty worthless now, no reason to ever get them. Roach range + reaper speed needs factory + supply depot before barracks, i mean there is absolutely no use for them anymore Just wondering.
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Depot->Rax change and Roach buff are going to be huge in TvZ. It will shift build orders and timings. Now T and P also need to be aware of defending early game.
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Roach range increase is going to be huge, and a much asked for buff. Thanks blizzard!
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EPT
