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On October 08 2010 02:15 NATO wrote:Show nested quote +Win % in Diamond (accounting for player skill)
49.6% win rate for Protoss when fighting Terran.
52.8% win rate for Protoss when fighting Zerg.
49.6% win rate for Terran when fighting Zerg. Then they go on to say that Terran is having a problem vs toss and zerg is having a problem vs Terran. This does not follow. Also their changes are idiot - they're removing options from the game, making the game more boring. Might make it easier to get the 40% win ratio TvZ blizzard is looking for, but this is not going to make the game better. Options = strategery.
That isn't really what this says at all. Those win% just say that Protoss has the easiest time climbing the ladder. Probably because it takes until mid diamond for most people to reliably be able to stop 4 warpgate pushes.
Their blog post would have been a lot better if they didn't post these win% which are almost 100% meaningless.
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On October 08 2010 02:44 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 02:43 Schnullerbacke13 wrote:On October 08 2010 01:24 GinNtoniC wrote:
Thanks for the info!
I found this particular piece of information very very interesting:
-In Diamond league:
49.6% win rate for Protoss when fighting Terran.
52.8% win rate for Protoss when fighting Zerg.
49.6% win rate for Terran when fighting Zerg.
And here I thought it was total darkness. There's been some discussion whether Blizzard is polishing these numbers or not. But if this is legit, it's a lot better than I thought. These stats are worthless, as the matching system tries to give you a 50% win ratio by automatically assigning weaker opponents when you loose. SO basically a GOLD terran might get demoted to SILVER when playing zerg, but still will have a ~50% win rate but against much weaker opponents :-). Regardless how imba the game is, the matchmaking system will let it look as if it is balanced. If you read the blizz post, they say the numbers are adjusted to take into account player skill. Im assuming this means the only numbers counted are when evenly players are matched.
Nope, Jinro, I don't think they do. I keep seeing people making that assertion, which I assume means they never actually read the link.
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On October 08 2010 02:40 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 01:28 Thunderflesh wrote:On October 08 2010 01:21 GTR wrote:The Barracks are going to require a Supply Depot, which will impact a lot of early terran reaper pushes. This is stupid. I agree... 1) Most BOs build a depot first anyway. 2) This will only limit Terran's ability to do fun/cute cheese strats; less variety = bad. 3) In late-game stalemate/base-trade situations, this could be a big problem; e.g., a Terran player has three command centers, but all their rax/depots have been taken out; even though they have plenty of supply, they'll have to built a depot before a rax. blegh. I suppose this might make up for being able to float buildings. Other than that, this patch looks great! Terran already has the most variety out of every other race =/ Overall these changes are surprisingly drastic, the Roach change especially is one that I'm really looking forward to. To the people talking about the changes, remember that the balance really shows only at around the top 5% of Diamond. It's definitely not that hard to imagine that when the T or P players don't know how to be aggressive enough the Zerg would be able to macro much more heavily than they should and win with ultras or whatever. It's still quite surprising that TvZ is practically even, though. Overall the changes are looking really nice, about time for a Roach buff after the supply nerf.
It shuts down Terran openings while increasing Zerg ones (or making them easier to do, more viable).
Now it's good that Z now has more opening possibilities, but it would be better if they weren't at the expense of the openings of other races.
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Why the hell is everyone complaining about the Depo/Rax nerf? I've never seen a decent player in a 1v1 game go Rax before Depo.
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So basicaly if i try some random barrack barrack before supply i cant, because i have to build a supply depot ? So basicaly because of one build, they kill different variations..
Gg for stupidity blizz.. but i am used to, u having no idea how to balance the game..
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On October 08 2010 02:46 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 01:46 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
WHAT. THE. FUCK?
Fuck my life, all hellion and reaper builds just died?
So this leaves what, camp like a whore for 30 minutes with planetary fortresses? Fun times. Meh, the way it is now that Hellions can endlessly kite the unit that supposedly counters them is just stupid. I'm not sure why you think that roaches shouldn't be able to kill Hellions. You just need to deal eco damage / fight vs lings like Hellion openings are supposed to, there'll always be Marauders for the Roaches anyway.
In reality Roaches have so much HP that you'll need absolutely godlike micro to endlessy kite them until you kill them.
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edit: Here's to hoping they add a CD to Chronoboost and Mule...[/QUOTE]
Why do people think chronoboost needs a cd? It's not an ability you use every time you can. There are a million situations where you save it up and use it on an upgrade or multiple gateways to get out more units. Adding a CD to it would just make it incredibly weak.
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United States47024 Posts
Barracks requires Depot?
Time to 14cc every game in TvT.
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nice blizz, good changes. lol at whiners
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We're increasing roach range. This will allow roaches to be more effective in large groups, giving the zerg more options in the mid to end game.
What the hell? Since when did Zerg struggle mid to late game? I get steamrolled by all Zerg's that ever manage to survive past the 15 minute mark.
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On October 08 2010 02:36 kmkkmk wrote:
I wish there was some form of "pro only" forum discussing these things, since really most of the post suggest an end of SC II, which I don't believe in. Please create a read only forum which posting privileges for selected people. Please!
As someone who would absolutely NOT be qualified to post in suggested forum, I completely endorse this idea. These conversations are just absolutely useless since 99% of posters (myself included) really do not have the experience and knowledge to intelligently comment on balance issues.
I think a pro-only forum with some sort of skill cut-off is a fantastic idea. Would be useful for everyone - all the noobs won't drown out the people with skill. I know I'd love to not have to wade through a thread like this to get the 10 intelligent posts.
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On October 08 2010 02:46 Obsolescence wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 02:39 Mereel wrote:
why so much hate on the depo before rax......i like it.
did u ever play 4v4 vs 3-4 terrans and everyone goes fast reaper......well u lost in the loading screen.
and for 1v1 maybe some players change from onebase every game to some more macro style. Starcraft is 1v1. 4v4 is custom. The fact that they rank 4v4 is completely ridiculous in the first place. Nobody who is anybody, and most nobodies as well, give a flip about 4v4 balance.
I play way more 4vs4 than 1vs1 and still agree this is true :D
Reapers are imbalanced in team games but depot before rax just kills a part of the whole starcraft.
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On October 08 2010 02:41 Sadistx wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 02:39 Mereel wrote:
why so much hate on the depo before rax......i like it.
did u ever play 4v4 vs 3-4 terrans and everyone goes fast reaper......well u lost in the loading screen.
and for 1v1 maybe some players change from onebase every game to some more macro style. No, and that's exactly why that change shouldn't exist. You really have no idea what you're talking about do you?
whats wrong with that....everything what i said is right.
did u even read the text *.... early terran reaper attacks that dominate so many matches, especially in team games.*
abusing the fast reaper is just gimmicky because u dont need skill for that...just abusing the imbalance of the unit.
with this change there is one less opener for terran to choose from the other 10.
deal with it -.-
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KUDOS for roach buff
KUDOS for higher hitpoints on zerg buildings .. gives the Z more time to reenforce when attacked
not so well: depot before barracks.
Better give Z more options instead of removing options from Terran, we don't want to end up all races feeling like Z (few variation in opening). why don't move some upgrades to T1 such as burrow or creep pooping Ovies (Zerg proxy =) ) ? Also the lack of effective Z scouting is not adressed. Faster ovies would allow the Z to better react on those T builds, so maybe this would increase Z chances to counter them.
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Depot before rax seems kind of silly. Rax before supply depot is already a cheese strategy, and not an unbeatable one at that..
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On October 08 2010 02:45 Boblhead wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 02:44 awesomoecalypse wrote:
They need to figure out a way to make Reapers viable as army units, not just cheese/scouting units.
What if they made them stimmable? That would allow one to have "speed" Reapers fairly early on, at cost to health, and in the mid and late game would make them substantially more dangerous. Reapers are like paper, stimming them is like ripping them in half lol
They have 50 hp. Marines have 45, and 55 with combat shield. It really is not so different from stimming Marines.
It makes Reaper harass still viable, but at greater cost, and you need to be good at timing your stims exactly right to get the maximum possible out of each reaper.
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The Barracks are going to require a Supply Depot,
This can't be real. This is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Pool now requires overlord kk.
edit: good lord people, i mean a SECOND overlord... like one you have to BUILD (morph)
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On October 08 2010 02:48 Woony wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 02:46 Shikyo wrote:On October 08 2010 01:46 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
WHAT. THE. FUCK?
Fuck my life, all hellion and reaper builds just died?
So this leaves what, camp like a whore for 30 minutes with planetary fortresses? Fun times. Meh, the way it is now that Hellions can endlessly kite the unit that supposedly counters them is just stupid. I'm not sure why you think that roaches shouldn't be able to kill Hellions. You just need to deal eco damage / fight vs lings like Hellion openings are supposed to, there'll always be Marauders for the Roaches anyway. In reality Roaches have so much HP that you'll need absolutely godlike micro to endlessy kite them until you kill them.
Yeah, but it's pretty stupid that the ball is completely on the Terran's count with this. Zerg can't do anything but hope that the Terran can't micro properly.
On October 08 2010 02:49 AveiMil wrote:Show nested quote +We're increasing roach range. This will allow roaches to be more effective in large groups, giving the zerg more options in the mid to end game.
What the hell? Since when did Zerg struggle mid to late game? I get steamrolled by all Zerg's that ever manage to survive past the 15 minute mark.
You probably don't build enough SCVs or stuff, T late/mid is still extremely strong vs Z.
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On October 08 2010 02:50 gogogadgetflow wrote:This can't be real. This is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Pool now requires overlord kk.
good change thank good I already have one at the start 
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Does anybody else look at these changes and just think WTF?
If they weren't on the official blog site, I would call them fake in a heart beat.
While the fungal vs blink change is much needed, everything else just sounds like the kind of stuff noobs make up when they dream of "balance".
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EPT
