He has two recent wins over Jaedong, two over Hwasin, one over Leta, Notice, ForGG, and Kal (on Medusa). He also beat FBH although nobody seems to have any trouble doing that lately. He still has a winning record over Bisu despite a couple of losses recently. You can't just single out his losses and act like that proves he's incapable of beating big name players.

Hyperionnn

Turkey4968 Posts

February 28 2009 22:40 GMT

#223

On March 01 2009 07:38 Rostam wrote:
He has two recent wins over Jaedong, two over Hwasin, one over Leta, Notice, ForGG, and Kal (on Medusa). He also beat FBH although nobody seems to have any trouble doing that lately. He still has a winning record over Bisu despite a couple of losses recently. You can't just single out his losses and act like that proves he's incapable of beating big name players.

Notice, hwasin, forgg, kal and fbh (Hi i'm slumping) for big names? Maybe kal could be a big man but others are just joke compared to TOP players
I dont give a fuck about stats 1 year ago, he's 1-3 against bisu lately

Rostam

United States2552 Posts

February 28 2009 22:56 GMT

#224

Notice has the best WL record of any player on STX and beat Mind and Leta in TvT. Hwasin was coming off a 2-0 record in the group of death and OSL wins over Mind and Best when he lost to Flash. ForGG has very good TvT. You're taking a small sample of games (a couple from 2-3 months ago and two days worth of losses to Leta and Best) to make a generalization about his play. He's proven he can beat those big names (well, besides Best) in the past, there's obviously no mental block preventing him from doing so again. He'll bounce back.

niteReloaded

Croatia5282 Posts

February 28 2009 23:08 GMT

#225

Making a case by using low sample statistic doesn't make too much of a point, but it's fun to spray jiberish in threads like this nonetheless.

Zalfor

United States1035 Posts

February 28 2009 23:17 GMT

#226

bisu is like july

super good, but not bonwja status

to be a bonwja, u need to revolutionize the way starcraft is played.

Jyvblamo

Canada13788 Posts

February 28 2009 23:21 GMT

#227

On March 01 2009 08:17 Zalfor wrote:
bisu is like july

super good, but not bonwja status

to be a bonwja, u need to revolutionize the way starcraft is played.

Yup, the Revolutionist sure didn't revolutionize anything.

fusionsdf

Canada15390 Posts

February 28 2009 23:24 GMT

#228

he revolutionized and he amazing

but hes not dominant enough, so not bonjwa

imperfect

Canada1652 Posts

February 28 2009 23:26 GMT

#229

On March 01 2009 08:21 Jyvblamo wrote:

Show nested quote +

Yup, the Revolutionist sure didn't revolutionize anything.

lol.

Lukeeze[zR]

Switzerland6838 Posts

February 28 2009 23:26 GMT

#230

On March 01 2009 08:21 Jyvblamo wrote:

Show nested quote +

Yup, the Revolutionist sure didn't revolutionize anything.

BIIIING

Piy

Scotland3152 Posts

February 28 2009 23:29 GMT

#231

I dont think Bisu is significantly better than anyone else right now, it's just that the maps are good for Toss right now, what with Desti and Medusa. The fact that Flash is able to hang with Bisu on those maps is incredible by itself.

Pretty sure Flash is still the best player in terms of technical skill. Don't care about results, just look at his play. It speaks for itself when compared to Leta or Bisu's.

Same with Jaedong.

Not gonna be a Bonjwa for a while yet...

koreasilver

9109 Posts

February 28 2009 23:33 GMT

#232

Bisu might not have invented the forge fe, sair-dark, and sair reaver like many detractors say, but it doesn't change the fact that he seriously changed how PvZ is played and influenced the game tremendously. That 3:0 rape he delivered to Savior is one of the greatest moments of progaming history.

The standardization of the forge fe and the elevated importance of corsairs in PvZ made by Bisu was just as important as the standardization of the 3hatchmuta in ZvT that Savior made.

mikeymoo

Canada7170 Posts

February 28 2009 23:41 GMT

#233

When I see that Bisu is going to play a game, I say "I hope Bisu wins".
When Savior used to play, it was "Savior's gonna win obviously".
So not Bonjwa yet.

disciple

9071 Posts

February 28 2009 23:43 GMT

#234

the FE sair/dt build is originally "invented" by DaezanG. Bisu just used it far more efficiently

Centric

United States1989 Posts

February 28 2009 23:52 GMT

#235

On March 01 2009 08:43 disciple wrote:
the FE sair/dt build is originally "invented" by DaezanG. Bisu just used it far more efficiently

Yeah, Bisu added his own emphasis on scouting and perfect reaction to what the Z was doing.

HB wrote a really good TLFE about it here.

EpiK

Korea (South)5757 Posts

February 28 2009 23:58 GMT

#236

On March 01 2009 08:41 mikeymoo wrote:
When I see that Bisu is going to play a game, I say "I hope Bisu wins".
When Savior used to play, it was "Savior's gonna win obviously".
So not Bonjwa yet.

this.

The fact that this thread exists is proof that he's not bonjwa yet.. If he beats JD 3-0 tonight on the other hand I'd say he would be bit closer.

iNfeRnaL

Germany1908 Posts

February 28 2009 23:59 GMT

#237

On March 01 2009 08:29 Piy wrote:
"Pretty sure Flash is still the best player in terms of technical skill. Don't care about results, just look at his play. It speaks for itself when compared to Leta or Bisu's.

Same with Jaedong."

If we take the technical skill JangBi is #1 world before maGma because they're both fucking beasts when they play in practice.
Too bad being really good is also about being a champ and way lessa bout who is "best in technical skill."
Be sure, Best is technically 3x better than July and we all know what happened in that OSL.
Mindset + superior technique playing together make a player really gosu.
Also I do agree to Flash is incredible to watch but you must be a stupid hater if you say Bisu isn't playing just as incredible... hello?
Bisu has probably the best multitasking in this world, even tho Jangbi might "seem" faster - Bisu is just a fucking god at being everywhere tearing your shit apart.
Also u cannot really compare Bisu and Flash because Bisu's play is aggressive and depending on harass very much.
Bisu is a shadow that will hit you when you expect it the least.
Now look at how Flash is playing he's passively building up an macro advantage until he is able to roll everybody because u will not find any hole in his play to delay his push.
Flash is Art of Defense.

Example to point it out: Would you really compare Maldini with Ronaldo and conclude Maldini is a lot better because he prevented more goals than Ronald shot?

Shuffleus

Australia764 Posts

March 01 2009 00:12 GMT

#238

On March 01 2009 08:29 Piy wrote:
I dont think Bisu is significantly better than anyone else right now, it's just that the maps are good for Toss right now, what with Desti and Medusa. The fact that Flash is able to hang with Bisu on those maps is incredible by itself.

Pretty sure Flash is still the best player in terms of technical skill. Don't care about results, just look at his play. It speaks for itself when compared to Leta or Bisu's.

Same with Jaedong.

Not gonna be a Bonjwa for a while yet...

Your first statement i have to disagree with. Bisu is amazing, when i watch him play i literally quote lord of the rings and say to myself.

"What can men do against such reckless play"

His play always catches my attention and it is noticeable that against lesser players he just COMPLETELY dismantles them.

And this is not coming from a bisu fanboy. Hell, i don't even particularly like bisu. However i do believe he is the best toss in the world and right now i'd have to say he is very capable of smacking down Jaedong 3-0 today.

But I do not believe Bisu is even close to Bonjwa Status. Where is his reign? i do not live in fear of my favorite players (ie. Light[aLive], oov) coming up against Bisu, he just hasn't achieved that 'aura' a bonjwa of the game has.

Do you know who i do fear though? FlaSh. I fear any man who can have so little time to practice (comparatively) and still NEARLY all-kill every time he gets up into that booth. You say flash doesn't do so well verses the big names. Recently, i can very well see how you get that impression but i'm not looking back at the MSL and OSL knockouts, i'll agree that he lost fair and square (although to bitch about the lack of practice time again is so tempting). I'm looking back at the past year of dominance that has been made and owned in the state of Lee young ho. (I'm not saying Jaedong hasn't been tearing it up for the past year i just think flash has been doing it more)

Bisu is not a Bonjwa yet. Skill wise, he does not have far to go. But he needs 12 months of dominance, 12 months of complete and utter rape and a 27-0 TvZ streak.

N.B Yes. I am biased towards Flash. I don't believe any man could watch him play and not be against proposition 8 from that point onwards.

Ace

United States16096 Posts

March 01 2009 00:23 GMT

#239

What also bad luck wise hurts Bisu's Bonjwa status was the fact that a lot of other Protoss players were doing SO well on Protoss favored maps.

With Savior, he was the only Zerg surviving through Terran favored maps. It's things like that that make people say "oh my god wtf!". Put Bisu on T and Z favored maps and yes he will possibly win but it won't be those EPIC games like Savior had where you just shake your head and go what must a Terran do to win on this map vs Savior?

Also yes, Bisu has more skill than past Bonjwas but that's relative to the generation. Oov/Boxer/Nada all had insane "skill" above their peers just as little as Bisu does against Jaedong and Flash...which isn't much. It's not like those guys had it easy back then either.