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On December 23 2008 09:44 Bosu wrote:
Playing war3 may get you used to the UI of SC2, but the gameplay is nothing alike.
I pretty much agree with you and think the UI is infinitely more important. Gameplay comes naturally with the amount of time you have to put in to compete. I would agree that if you never played a significant amount of SC1, after a certain amount of UI perfection, SC1 would be good to play a bunch of to open your mind. But the UI mastering is so huge.
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On December 23 2008 09:44 inReacH wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2008 04:37 Cheerio wrote:
Imo it doesn't pay off to prepare yourself mechanically to some game - one week of actually playing a game would do better than a half-year of "preparing". And what is 1 week if SC2 is here for years? And if it's not why wasting your time preparing for it? I completely agree that 1 week of SC2 would beat out 6 months of preparation on a different game.. but you have to ask yourself why. It's only because of strategy and timings. These things are a given at a top level of play.. they get so much attention passively that any two players competing at a top level know the ins and outs of these so much that you cannot surprise a player anymore and they will certainly not be giving you an advantage by fucking up their build. It comes down to mechanics and efficiency, which boils down to the fundamentals of how you control your units and buildings. Learning how to do everything the correct and most efficient way is absolutely paramount and WC3 is simply a better way to do that than BW.
This post seriously makes me doubt your knowledge of the proscene.
"You cannot surprise a player anymore."
Then why do DT rushes work? In Free vs Tempest why did neither player have detection when they were both going DTs? They did not know that the other player was going DTs. In the recent PL game of Anytime vs Haksoo, Anytime manner pyloned to trick Haksoo into thinking he was going to do an aggressive build and instead when DTs.
There have been so many games and series where mechanics and efficiency were not the deciding factor. Best vs Stork? Stork beat Best so badly with mind games and the like.
"It comes down to mechanics and efficiency, which boils down to the fundamentals of how you control your units and buildings."
I would say it is the opposite now days. The the mechanics and efficiency of top players is so close that the ONLY way to get ahead in a series is to play with the mind of your opponent.
Your arrogant nature and style of posting is really getting annoying and is getting in the way of you actually discussing the content of your posts. Each time someone posts who disagrees with you gets a return post like this "I could keep picking apart you post, but I won't" You know, I could pick apart your post more, but I won't. You could get more done by working with the people who post and ignoring the trolls then just flaming everyone.
Now, here is my opinion of this "Switch." I don't doubt that getting used to the mechanics of WC3 will be slightly useful for playing SC2. However, the micro of SC2 is being tailored to be more like that of the original SC. From the people I have talked to who have played SC2, like Diggity, I'm getting the impression that it is pretty fast paced. WC3 really isn't that fast paced since stuff takes forever to die. In my opinion, playing a game that has the feel of SC2 will be more beneficial than playing a game that has the modern UI of SC2.
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On December 23 2008 10:15 Fontong wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2008 09:44 inReacH wrote:On December 23 2008 04:37 Cheerio wrote:
Imo it doesn't pay off to prepare yourself mechanically to some game - one week of actually playing a game would do better than a half-year of "preparing". And what is 1 week if SC2 is here for years? And if it's not why wasting your time preparing for it? I completely agree that 1 week of SC2 would beat out 6 months of preparation on a different game.. but you have to ask yourself why. It's only because of strategy and timings. These things are a given at a top level of play.. they get so much attention passively that any two players competing at a top level know the ins and outs of these so much that you cannot surprise a player anymore and they will certainly not be giving you an advantage by fucking up their build. It comes down to mechanics and efficiency, which boils down to the fundamentals of how you control your units and buildings. Learning how to do everything the correct and most efficient way is absolutely paramount and WC3 is simply a better way to do that than BW. This post seriously makes me doubt your knowledge of the proscene. "You cannot surprise a player anymore." Then why do DT rushes work? In Free vs Tempest why did neither player have detection when they were both going DTs? They did not know that the other player was going DTs. In the recent PL game of Anytime vs Haksoo, Anytime manner pyloned to trick Haksoo into thinking he was going to do an aggressive build and instead when DTs. There have been so many games and series where mechanics and efficiency were not the deciding factor. Best vs Stork? Stork beat Best so badly with mind games and the like. "It comes down to mechanics and efficiency, which boils down to the fundamentals of how you control your units and buildings." I would say it is the opposite now days. The the mechanics and efficiency of top players is so close that the ONLY way to get ahead in a series is to play with the mind of your opponent. Your arrogant nature and style of posting is really getting annoying and is getting in the way of you actually discussing the content of your posts. Each time someone posts who disagrees with you gets a return post like this "I could keep picking apart you post, but I won't" You know, I could pick apart your post more, but I won't. You could get more done by working with the people who post and ignoring the trolls then just flaming everyone. Now, here is my opinion of this "Switch." I don't doubt that getting used to the mechanics of WC3 will be slightly useful for playing SC2. However, the micro of SC2 is being tailored to be more like that of the original SC. From the people I have talked to who have played SC2, like Diggity, I'm getting the impression that it is pretty fast paced. WC3 really isn't that fast paced since stuff takes forever to die. In my opinion, playing a game that has the feel of SC2 will be more beneficial than playing a game that has the modern UI of SC2.
Noone was surprised in that gom match dude.. As Tasteless pointed out that game, not getting detection was a calculated risk by both players. When I said you can't surprise someone I meant the way you surprise someone who has never played the game before. I fail to see how this is hard to understand as that is what we were talking about.
Even with mind games like canceling a robo and going citadel, this is not the same surprise a player feels when you cannon rush behind their mins and they had no idea they should have scouted back there.
Casual players will take a long long time before they can no longer be surprised. If you play enough you know what's possible always.
For a competitive player, beyond getting to that point of no surprise, assuming you have what it takes, the game will really come down to being fast and efficient. I'll say it again, I think setting up the fundamentals for how you control your army is paramount. The feel is far too abstract a thing to be able to focus on... I'd agree that a large chunk of time into SC1 is necessary to be able to think properly out of the gate when you dive into SC2 but I don't think it's nearly as critical. Either way I've put years into SC and am very familiar with all of these kinds of abstractions.
Also I'll reference Tempest over Jaedong.. the korean casters gave Tempest like a 9.3 macro rating on GOM and he proved it was true by just overpowering Jaedong with a perfect economy and perfect macro.
(Yes I know macro is different in SC2 but this still falls under the umbrella of being efficient)
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Nice you pretty much got everything wrong.
- It just sucks having everything in small amount of hotkeys. When I played TvZ I had marines in 1, medivacs in 2, tanks in 3 and nighthawks in 4. Barracks in 5, factoys in 6, starports in 7 and CC's in 8.
Eight hotkeys.
- SC2 isnt even CLOSE to wc3. SC2 is 100% like BW in every aspect. You dont even notice the MBS or automining after one or two games.
- You say there is not mechanics in SC2? Ooh there is I tell you that. After a giant battle I was at like 2000 mineral, MBS easy? I wouldnt even say its much easier than BW. You have to go (with my hotkeys) 5mmmmm (5 barracks), 6ttt (3 factory), 7e.
It still takes a lot of time.
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On December 23 2008 10:42 Zoler wrote:
Nice you pretty much got everything wrong.
- It just sucks having everything in small amount of hotkeys. When I played TvZ I had marines in 1, medivacs in 2, tanks in 3 and nighthawks in 4. Barracks in 5, factoys in 6, starports in 7 and CC's in 8.
Eight hotkeys.
- SC2 isnt even CLOSE to wc3. SC2 is 100% like BW in every aspect. You dont even notice the MBS or automining after one or two games.
- You say there is not mechanics in SC2? Ooh there is I tell you that. After a giant battle I was at like 2000 mineral, MBS easy? I wouldnt even say its much easier than BW. You have to go (with my hotkeys) 5mmmmm (5 barracks), 6ttt (3 factory), 7e.
It still takes a lot of time.
I was going to ignore this post as I think comments like "SC2 is 100% like BW in every aspect" do a good job of demonstrating your burgeoning intelligence on it's own but you actually allow me to make a comparison.
Do this:
5mmmmm 6ttt 7e
Now do this:
1qqqqq TAB www TAB e
Not only is mine blatantly easier/faster, it displays usage of skills you can't practice in BW, TABBING and MBS. It also shows how great custom hotkeys are. Also it should be mentioned that i can set all my combat units to a new rally point with one hotkey and one click instead of 3 of each and I am using up 1/3rd of the numbered hotkeys as you.
This example is not debatable. I am sure someone will point out something but honestly this like 1/100th the point of my post and is still incredibly convincing on it's own.
"You say there is not mechanics in SC2? Ooh there is I tell you that. After a giant battle I was at like 2000 mineral, MBS easy?"
No I never said that I said they are different and the new ones can't be trained effectively in BW.
Also since when does you being bad at MBS macro prove your point?
I can say I never had macro nearly that bad when I played SC2 except maybe my very first game when I was using those awful keyboard with infinite extra buttons on the left that I kept hitting lol.
Thank god the kingofthehill/posterwinning area used standard mouse/kb..
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The better players will have observers/shuttles and units of importance hotkeyed also
You mean like in BW today? Also this wont be for only the "better" players since its common knowledge to hotkey important stuff and no games will ever consist of players using 2-4hotkeys just because of mbs or increased unit selection.
Do you really play sc? If so i would like to hear your iccup rank .p
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On December 23 2008 11:14 neliel wrote:Show nested quote +The better players will have observers/shuttles and units of importance hotkeyed also You mean like in BW today? Also this wont be for only the "better" players since its common knowledge to hotkey important stuff and no games will ever consist of players using 2-4hotkeys just because of mbs or increased unit selection. Do you really play sc? If so i would like to hear your iccup rank .p
C+ was my high But I have reps of beating A ranked demonologist and Twisted that are about a month old.
Also for most of the time I played competitively I was playing zerg so I will fully admit I had less opportunity to hotkey anything but my army compared to the opportunity a protoss or terran player would have.
Again this is kind of irrelevant to whether or not my theories are sound..
Considering I have written pages and pages of text in this thread quoting one line written in haste and using it to judge me on isn't really fair... not that what I said was incorrect but I admit that it kind of implies that this is not the case presently in BW which is far from the truth.
It will undeniably be used more in SC2 though.
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Sweden33719 Posts
1qqqqq TAB www TAB e
Not only is mine blatantly easier/faster, it displays usage of skills you can't practice in BW, TABBING and MBS. It also shows how great custom hotkeys are. Also it should be mentioned that i can set all my combat units to a new rally point with one hotkey and one click instead of 3 of each and I am using up 1/3rd of the numbered hotkeys as you.
This is inferior to doing 1qqqqq2www3e, because sometimes you want to build only W and sometimes only E.
Only reason you would prefer the TAB way, that I can think of off-hand, is that you can keep your hand closer to tab. IE if you dont have to use as many hotkeys for buildings you can have more for units and perhaps get away with only using 1-5 or something?
Rallypoints are a decent reason to have them in one key, guess it depends on what race you play as well (since I don't imagine protoss will use rally points much with warpgates).
Btw I don't think you've addressed the fact that getting used to WC3 style MBS will not help (maybe even hurt) you when in SC2 it works differently?
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On December 23 2008 11:41 FrozenArbiter wrote:Show nested quote +1qqqqq TAB www TAB e
Not only is mine blatantly easier/faster, it displays usage of skills you can't practice in BW, TABBING and MBS. It also shows how great custom hotkeys are. Also it should be mentioned that i can set all my combat units to a new rally point with one hotkey and one click instead of 3 of each and I am using up 1/3rd of the numbered hotkeys as you. This is inferior to doing 1qqqqq2www3e, because sometimes you want to build only W and sometimes only E. Only reason you would prefer the TAB way, that I can think of off-hand, is that you can keep your hand closer to tab. IE if you dont have to use as many hotkeys for buildings you can have more for units and perhaps get away with only using 1-5 or something? Rallypoints are a decent reason to have them in one key, guess it depends on what race you play as well (since I don't imagine protoss will use rally points much with warpgates). Btw I don't think you've addressed the fact that getting used to WC3 style MBS will not help (maybe even hurt) you when in SC2 it works differently?
Honestly to discect it even further, since you push 1 and Q with the same finger if you have to tab in the middle is about as fast because your path goes like this
INDEX FINGER:
1
Q
This takes about as long as:
INDEX FINGER:
1
TAB
-while your middle finger gets in position at Q/W or ring finger on E
-These two things happen at the same time so the extra key slows you down only very very slightly..
If you are producing from a third production building then you can go throw a shift in there before the tab to go straight to that one with only a single push of tab which doesn't slow you down at all...... actually that only works well if you use your right hand to control the keyboard...... lol
Heh I guess I've been thinking so much as a right handed keyboarder that sometimes I forget some of this stuff doesn't work for most of you.
Bottom line I think having dynamic rally points is going to be an enormous part of the game and I think it will always be worth it to have all your production buildings in a single hotkey.
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On December 23 2008 11:41 FrozenArbiter wrote:
Btw I don't think you've addressed the fact that getting used to WC3 style MBS will not help (maybe even hurt) you when in SC2 it works differently?
If you mean just because you have to push multiple times to get units from your buildings.. I think this is incredibly easy to pick up.. You can master that in under a month if you play enough. You don't even have to use your eyes or mouse to do this it is just muscle memory on your keyboard.
The skill that will be harder is watching exactly what is taking place in a battle WHILE macroing. You can get a tiny bit used to this in WC3 macro but certainly not any experience in it from BW.
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On December 23 2008 11:41 FrozenArbiter wrote:Show nested quote +1qqqqq TAB www TAB e
Not only is mine blatantly easier/faster, it displays usage of skills you can't practice in BW, TABBING and MBS. It also shows how great custom hotkeys are. Also it should be mentioned that i can set all my combat units to a new rally point with one hotkey and one click instead of 3 of each and I am using up 1/3rd of the numbered hotkeys as you. This is inferior to doing 1qqqqq2www3e, because sometimes you want to build only W and sometimes only E. Only reason you would prefer the TAB way, that I can think of off-hand, is that you can keep your hand closer to tab. IE if you dont have to use as many hotkeys for buildings you can have more for units and perhaps get away with only using 1-5 or something? Rallypoints are a decent reason to have them in one key, guess it depends on what race you play as well (since I don't imagine protoss will use rally points much with warpgates). Btw I don't think you've addressed the fact that getting used to WC3 style MBS will not help (maybe even hurt) you when in SC2 it works differently?
When I still played WC3 I used this hotkeys:
1-2: army
3: tier 1 rax
4: tier 2 rax (if I had more than 1 type I tabbed through them)
5: altar
9: upgrades
0: main + supply usually (to keep count easier, use abilities on barrows, upgrade zigs etc.)
Hotkeys 6-8 were fluent depending on the race I played and according to my immediate needs.
So it would put my number of hotkeys at 7-10 which is not really less than in SC (and that's with MBS and less units/buildings!). Saying that mbs and tab will reduce the number of hotkeys is just plain wrong. Maybe for the beginners but as players will get better and better they'll start to use more hotkeys for more control because in some situations TAB just isn't enough.
Oh, and I've just found a good question to ask Blizzard about: hotkeying map locations 
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On December 23 2008 12:40 Manit0u wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2008 11:41 FrozenArbiter wrote:1qqqqq TAB www TAB e
Not only is mine blatantly easier/faster, it displays usage of skills you can't practice in BW, TABBING and MBS. It also shows how great custom hotkeys are. Also it should be mentioned that i can set all my combat units to a new rally point with one hotkey and one click instead of 3 of each and I am using up 1/3rd of the numbered hotkeys as you. This is inferior to doing 1qqqqq2www3e, because sometimes you want to build only W and sometimes only E. Only reason you would prefer the TAB way, that I can think of off-hand, is that you can keep your hand closer to tab. IE if you dont have to use as many hotkeys for buildings you can have more for units and perhaps get away with only using 1-5 or something? Rallypoints are a decent reason to have them in one key, guess it depends on what race you play as well (since I don't imagine protoss will use rally points much with warpgates). Btw I don't think you've addressed the fact that getting used to WC3 style MBS will not help (maybe even hurt) you when in SC2 it works differently? When I still played WC3 I used this hotkeys: 1-2: army 3: tier 1 rax 4: tier 2 rax (if I had more than 1 type I tabbed through them) 5: altar 9: upgrades 0: main + supply usually (to keep count easier, use abilities on barrows, upgrade zigs etc.) Hotkeys 6-8 were fluent depending on the race I played and according to my immediate needs. So it would put my number of hotkeys at 7-10 which is not really less than in SC (and that's with MBS and less units/buildings!). Saying that mbs and tab will reduce the number of hotkeys is just plain wrong. Maybe for the beginners but as players will get better and better they'll start to use more hotkeys for more control because in some situations TAB just isn't enough. Oh, and I've just found a good question to ask Blizzard about: hotkeying map locations
Even if people use all 10 hotkeys every game which WILL NOT happen.. it's still reducing the # of different thing you need hotkeys for from well over 10 to between 5 and 10 depending on style and game length. I personally would rather push tab than move my hand way out of position to hit the higher numbers.. It will be race/preference dependant but you can't deny that in SC there was way over 10 things people would hotkey if they could, and now using 10 would mean you are using them terribly inefficiently.
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It sounds like you think having to hotkey alot of stuff is bad (which i don't agree with). Anything that makes the game harder (but not unmanagable) should not be removed in my opinion. I really do not like the "dumbing" down of SC to SC2. Be it the hotkeys or MBS.
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I'm curious if you have a life, no offence though, but preparing for SC2 is a little too much.
Following development is quite enough, but with your preparation to SC2, one has to wonder if everythings okay!
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On December 23 2008 18:09 SlickR12345 wrote:
I'm curious if you have a life, no offence though, but preparing for SC2 is a little too much.
Following development is quite enough, but with your preparation to SC2, one has to wonder if everythings okay!
He already quit his job, as he said in his previous post, "for a game that hasn't been released yet". Makes me wonder if this is just a troll (who puts really some time and effort into this).
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I am pretty sure he is a troll.
He is having quite a bit of fun as you can see from the quality of his posts and has made quite a believeable and wacky character for himself.
I have noticed he has these following character traits that are quite(too) pronounced:
Arrogance (IE. "I have played WC and SC for 4 days with my off hand and can play it competently, I am not as fast but I will be soon", etc.)
Attacking critics with random comments (IE. "...you should never aspire to become a scientist", "are you a creationist or evolutionist?" etc.)
Knowledge of WC3 (I used to play WC3 a lot, I know what hes saying is quite accurate)
Machine-like thinking (IE. His theories on how SC2 will be when it comes out)
Over the top (IE. he quit his job for a game that hasn't come out yet, overly in-depth with which finger pushing what button, etc.)
From these, I conclude that he is a very entertaining troll poster who hides it incredibly well, providing us 2 extremely entertaining threads. The posters who gets angry at him make me laugh so much after his comments.
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On December 23 2008 10:28 inReacH wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2008 10:15 Fontong wrote:On December 23 2008 09:44 inReacH wrote:On December 23 2008 04:37 Cheerio wrote:
Imo it doesn't pay off to prepare yourself mechanically to some game - one week of actually playing a game would do better than a half-year of "preparing". And what is 1 week if SC2 is here for years? And if it's not why wasting your time preparing for it? I completely agree that 1 week of SC2 would beat out 6 months of preparation on a different game.. but you have to ask yourself why. It's only because of strategy and timings. These things are a given at a top level of play.. they get so much attention passively that any two players competing at a top level know the ins and outs of these so much that you cannot surprise a player anymore and they will certainly not be giving you an advantage by fucking up their build. It comes down to mechanics and efficiency, which boils down to the fundamentals of how you control your units and buildings. Learning how to do everything the correct and most efficient way is absolutely paramount and WC3 is simply a better way to do that than BW. This post seriously makes me doubt your knowledge of the proscene. "You cannot surprise a player anymore." Then why do DT rushes work? In Free vs Tempest why did neither player have detection when they were both going DTs? They did not know that the other player was going DTs. In the recent PL game of Anytime vs Haksoo, Anytime manner pyloned to trick Haksoo into thinking he was going to do an aggressive build and instead when DTs. There have been so many games and series where mechanics and efficiency were not the deciding factor. Best vs Stork? Stork beat Best so badly with mind games and the like. "It comes down to mechanics and efficiency, which boils down to the fundamentals of how you control your units and buildings." I would say it is the opposite now days. The the mechanics and efficiency of top players is so close that the ONLY way to get ahead in a series is to play with the mind of your opponent. Your arrogant nature and style of posting is really getting annoying and is getting in the way of you actually discussing the content of your posts. Each time someone posts who disagrees with you gets a return post like this "I could keep picking apart you post, but I won't" You know, I could pick apart your post more, but I won't. You could get more done by working with the people who post and ignoring the trolls then just flaming everyone. Now, here is my opinion of this "Switch." I don't doubt that getting used to the mechanics of WC3 will be slightly useful for playing SC2. However, the micro of SC2 is being tailored to be more like that of the original SC. From the people I have talked to who have played SC2, like Diggity, I'm getting the impression that it is pretty fast paced. WC3 really isn't that fast paced since stuff takes forever to die. In my opinion, playing a game that has the feel of SC2 will be more beneficial than playing a game that has the modern UI of SC2. Noone was surprised in that gom match dude.. As Tasteless pointed out that game, not getting detection was a calculated risk by both players. When I said you can't surprise someone I meant the way you surprise someone who has never played the game before. I fail to see how this is hard to understand as that is what we were talking about. Even with mind games like canceling a robo and going citadel, this is not the same surprise a player feels when you cannon rush behind their mins and they had no idea they should have scouted back there. Casual players will take a long long time before they can no longer be surprised. If you play enough you know what's possible always. For a competitive player, beyond getting to that point of no surprise, assuming you have what it takes, the game will really come down to being fast and efficient. I'll say it again, I think setting up the fundamentals for how you control your army is paramount. The feel is far too abstract a thing to be able to focus on... I'd agree that a large chunk of time into SC1 is necessary to be able to think properly out of the gate when you dive into SC2 but I don't think it's nearly as critical. Either way I've put years into SC and am very familiar with all of these kinds of abstractions. Also I'll reference Tempest over Jaedong.. the korean casters gave Tempest like a 9.3 macro rating on GOM and he proved it was true by just overpowering Jaedong with a perfect economy and perfect macro. (Yes I know macro is different in SC2 but this still falls under the umbrella of being efficient)
Don´t be so hung up about the word suprise. What is important isn´t "suprising" the enemy since, as you said, in a game the options are limited and known to both sides - like chess, actually even more so since there is no hidden information in chess.
How does chess work then? In chess your only chance to gain an advantage is it to make a move the enemy doesn´t make a "correct" answer to. Even "bad" moves are good if they confuse your enemy.
You even said it yourself, in your example both players took calculated risks and yet you say that SC would be only about effectivness and efficiency.
When your enemy makes a move that gives him an advantage over 75% of your available options you can either negate the advantage by "outplaying" him or by choosing a option from the other 25%, in the best case you do both.
Outplaying is the safe way - you "just" have to work hard to do that, hence why everyone did it and as consequence only players that do it remain to compete against each other.
The problem with RTS of course is that you usually only know about your enemys move for shure when it´s to late - it´s your "skill" to "know" your enemy better than he knows you.
You are (and thats what is great about RTS) not calculating risks by looking into a Excel Table but by looking at what and how your enemy plays (to make it meta: also how your enemy used to play in previous games if you have the option) and figure out his "numbers".
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On December 23 2008 12:50 inReacH wrote:
Even if people use all 10 hotkeys every game which WILL NOT happen.. it's still reducing the # of different thing you need hotkeys for from well over 10 to between 5 and 10 depending on style and game length. I personally would rather push tab than move my hand way out of position to hit the higher numbers.. It will be race/preference dependant but you can't deny that in SC there was way over 10 things people would hotkey if they could, and now using 10 would mean you are using them terribly inefficiently.
Seriously, do you really think it'll be such a bother to use more hotkeys? In SC2 you won't have heroes so your hand won't have to hang near the zxcv keys at all times to use this abilities. Also units won't have as much abilities/won't use them as often with a couple exceptions (just an educated guess).
And you don't always have to move your hand out of position to hit the higher numbers:
- you can put your army under 0, 9, 8 and use patrol move instead of attack move
- with custom hotkeys you can set them all to work well with your hotkey distribution
I think that you are severely overreacting and some of your assumptions are very wrong which might lead to a big disappointment on your side when the actual game comes out.
Edit:
Just 2 other things I'd like to add:
1: I've read 'the switch: part 1' and have to give you a big LOL at switching hands and thinking it will actually have any impact on your performance. Keys in WC3 are customizable - guess how many pros switched their main hand because of this?
2: In the op in this thread you've stated that you want to convince people that practicing WC3 is going to be good for SC2... As many people here may confirm, I am a big WC3 fan, I am heavily pro mbs/automining/smartcasting and what not.
Now the question for you:
If you fail to convince me then how the hell are you going to convince all those hardcore BW fans out there?
Thanks for listening.
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Also this switch is also stupid in the way that maybe SC2 wont be an esport?
I mean look at the direction it's going to! All they have done is dumb BW down and make stupid gimmicks and better graphics.
It's more like RA3 than Bw atm.
starcraft2 will be a casual RTS if you ask me. It doesn't have the quality to become an E-sport if you ask me
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Sweden33719 Posts
On December 23 2008 21:26 MuR)Ernu wrote:
Also this switch is also stupid in the way that maybe SC2 wont be an esport?
I mean look at the direction it's going to! All they have done is dumb BW down and make stupid gimmicks and better graphics.
It's more like RA3 than Bw atm.
starcraft2 will be a casual RTS if you ask me. It doesn't have the quality to become an E-sport if you ask me
SC2 will 100% be an e-sport. WC3 is one, pretty much everyone who has played the game (including some Wc3 players) say SC2 is either better than WC3 already or will likely be better once it's released.
On December 23 2008 12:01 inReacH wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2008 11:41 FrozenArbiter wrote:
Btw I don't think you've addressed the fact that getting used to WC3 style MBS will not help (maybe even hurt) you when in SC2 it works differently? If you mean just because you have to push multiple times to get units from your buildings.. I think this is incredibly easy to pick up.. You can master that in under a month if you play enough. You don't even have to use your eyes or mouse to do this it is just muscle memory on your keyboard. The skill that will be harder is watching exactly what is taking place in a battle WHILE macroing. You can get a tiny bit used to this in WC3 macro but certainly not any experience in it from BW.
I don't agree, for most of the early and midgame you can easily have all your production facilities keyed (4z5z6z7z8z9z0z).
Honestly, I see 0 benefit from getting used to WC3 style MBS. In your original post you talk about how BW players will "waste time learning to macro", well what about all the time WC3 players will have to waste learning how to creep, learning micro that will be obsolete (using items for instance) and developing bad habits from the game playing completely differently?
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EPT
