EPTin very general terms, really intelligent players will be slower.
the dumb-as-a-brick macro bots will be the ones who are like 400 apm.
who has the low apm? - Page 7
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Artosis
United States2140 Posts
in very general terms, really intelligent players will be slower. the dumb-as-a-brick macro bots will be the ones who are like 400 apm. | ||
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KrAzYfoOL
Australia3037 Posts
On November 14 2008 09:28 Leath wrote: APM is so overrated. Those players with more 150 are usually spamming. I am pretty sure the reason why people get over 150 at all, its because they keep checking their building unit progress periodically to not miss the macro cue. There is nothing more to it. If you watch any pro gamer playing Live, and dont pay attention to the bottom window, the main window game play is usually at a humanly possible speed. They are efficient. Testie and Oldy have like 120 APM. Nal_rA used to have around that too. There was a zerg too that used to be good and had around 80 APM... I forgot his name, something to do with water I guess... :p If you dont spam the move keys or selection hotkeys you can still play perfectly well with very low apm. Why don't you go inform every progamer with over 150apm that they're needlessly spamming and they can spare from serious wrist fatigue/injury in the future. Think about it, 13 hours of constant spamming every day, sheesh! Thank fuck we have people like you that are so knowledgeable about high level play, now run along and spread your expert insight! | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
On November 14 2008 15:08 Artosis wrote: upmagic is 260ish. in very general terms, really intelligent players will be slower. the dumb-as-a-brick macro bots will be the ones who are like 400 apm. actually its just that to be a progamer while being slow you have to be smart. being smart doesnt entail being slow. | ||
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sowhat91
26 Posts
On November 14 2008 22:51 IdrA wrote: actually its just that to be a progamer while being slow you have to be smart. being smart doesnt entail being slow. and being fast doesnt entail being smart.... | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
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QibingZero
2611 Posts
On November 14 2008 22:51 IdrA wrote: actually its just that to be a progamer while being slow you have to be smart. being smart doesnt entail being slow. Yes, that makes a lot more sense when you consider players such as Jaedong that play at huge apm numbers and yet are by no means 'dumb-as-a-brick macro bots'. The statement works when comparing players such as Kang Min to some newer progamers, but certainly not overall. | ||
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Leath
Canada1724 Posts
On November 14 2008 13:04 -_- wrote: Tsunami was the Zerg! I Played Zerg because of him! Yes, Tsunami was his name. Thanks ^_^ On November 14 2008 16:43 KrAzYfoOL wrote: Why don't you go inform every progamer with over 150apm that they're needlessly spamming and they can spare from serious wrist fatigue/injury in the future. Think about it, 13 hours of constant spamming every day, sheesh! Thank fuck we have people like you that are so knowledgeable about high level play, now run along and spread your expert insight! Thanks for the flame. The question was "How can pro gamers with much lower APM keep up with the ones in the high end?". And in all honesty I see nothing wrong with what I answered. I just wanted to say APM is overrated, and not the answer to all your starcraft problems. I dont need to write a 1500 words argumentative essay to explain why. Nal_rA, Testie, and many other good players have very low APM and it is probably because they dont keep: Checking unit progress every millisecond, clicking move 10 times per selection, setting rally 3 times, ordering workers to build 10x the same building. Check FireBatHero playing live, check how many times he performs all those useless actions. Like he build an ebay to get the SCV in position to make the barracks ASAP, then spam like 5x barracks construction. Check how many times NaDa press 1,2,4,5,4,5,4,5,1,2,4,5 checking if his tank is ready, he even saves the machine shop on hotkey to check the progress and research spider mine/ make a tank or whatever as soon as possible. Attempt of perfect play? Maybe. But to me that still falls in the category of spam. Anyway, perhaps you will share your insight next time instead of just mindless flaming. | ||
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KrAzYfoOL
Australia3037 Posts
On November 14 2008 23:44 Leath wrote: Yes, Tsunami was his name. Thanks ^_^ Thanks for the flame. The question was "How can pro gamers with much lower APM keep up with the ones in the high end?". And in all honesty I see nothing wrong with what I answered. I just wanted to say APM is overrated, and not the answer to all your starcraft problems. I dont need to write a 1500 words argumentative essay to explain why. Nal_rA, Testie, and many other good players have very low APM and it is probably because they dont keep: Checking unit progress every millisecond, clicking move 10 times per selection, setting rally 3 times, ordering workers to build 10x the same building. Check FireBatHero playing live, check how many times he performs all those useless actions. Like he build an ebay to get the SCV in position to make the barracks ASAP, then spam like 5x barracks construction. Check how many times NaDa press 1,2,4,5,4,5,4,5,1,2,4,5 checking if his tank is ready, he even saves the machine shop on hotkey to check the progress and research spider mine/ make a tank or whatever as soon as possible. Attempt of perfect play? Maybe. But to me that still falls in the category of spam. Anyway, perhaps you will share your insight next time instead of just mindless flaming. I feel blessed that you responded to my post, it seems you know sooo much more about utilizing actions in starcraft than players of such high skill like Nada of FBH, and here i thought us simple teamliquidians that are miles away from ever being even half as good as the players mentioned should just stay clear away from critiquing how professional gamers manage themselves in game. But in the back of my mind just knew there was someone, that was heads and shoulders above us all, capable of providing such an expert opinion! Imagine how pro gamers would respond to your claims, imagine jaedong's response when you tell him that he is badly utilizing his actions, sure he's probably the best zerg in the world at the moment, but I'm sure he'd be all ears to maximizing his playability! Have you got any more useful insight? Maybe i could pass on your word to another RTS, i could tell moon,grubby,tod,sky...you know all the best players, that their 250+ apm is completely useless! | ||
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Leath
Canada1724 Posts
I never said that their spamming was useless or that pro gamers are utilizing bad their actions. I never said that pro gamers could improve their playability by lowering their APM. Where did you get the idea that I was giving advice to anyone??? What does my skill level or teamliquid's have to do with anything? Even IF I was giving advice, it would not matter. Soccer coaches dont have to be Maradona or Pele to give advices to players on the field. Thats a silly notion that you cant understand something unless you havent been there. Finally, I never criticized any pro gamer on their style of game play, I just said high APM is overrated. | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
On November 14 2008 22:51 IdrA wrote: actually its just that to be a progamer while being slow you have to be smart. being smart doesnt entail being slow. I'm not sure that's entirely true. It could be that the more you spam, the harder it is to think. Thus, people who focus more on mechanics and just getting everything done perfectly, will not have as much focus to spare for strategical genius. Of course, that's why NaDa is so good. He's able to be fast, and smart. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
I have 260-280 APM. I do things very quickly, and my macro is pretty good. My micro is horrible though, I have zero precision. | ||
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Racenilatr
United States2756 Posts
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RoieTRS
United States2569 Posts
On November 16 2008 06:42 Racenilatr wrote: I dont believe micro falls under mechanics.... Some mechanics are optimized/maximized with micro. | ||
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randomscrub
Bulgaria44 Posts
However, theyre humans so thats impossible. AFAIK, the point of spamming useless actions is to make sure you don't miss any actually normal actions. Spamming 400+ apm also helps you build hand speed for those games where you actually need 200-300 unspammed APM. | ||
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Racenilatr
United States2756 Posts
On November 16 2008 07:59 RoieTRS wrote: Some mechanics are optimized/maximized with micro. such as? | ||
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CruiseR
Poland4014 Posts
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Try
United States1293 Posts
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ProoM
Lithuania1741 Posts
On November 13 2008 17:30 Ilikestarcraft wrote: Yes you can with zerg For example on blue storm you can put a lot of hatches around the min only and f2 it and the rest you can use hotkeys. f2 control+larvae sz 4sz5sz6szs7sz8sz? why "s" when you already have selected all the larvae? so it's just: f2 control+click h  | ||
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besiger
Croatia2452 Posts
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
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