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who has the low apm? - Page 7

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Artosis *
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
United States2140 Posts
November 14 2008 06:08 GMT
#121
upmagic is 260ish.
in very general terms, really intelligent players will be slower.
the dumb-as-a-brick macro bots will be the ones who are like 400 apm.
Commentatorhttp://twitter.com/Artosis
KrAzYfoOL
Profile Blog Joined September 2005
Australia3037 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-11-14 07:45:08
November 14 2008 07:43 GMT
#122
On November 14 2008 09:28 Leath wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 13 2008 15:37 ExSoldier wrote:
i dont understand how these progamers with low apm can keep up with progamers with much faster apm especially terran users with low apm going against zergs with high apm. mind any1 explaining ^^.

also does any1 know flash and fantasy's apm? im just curious ^^


APM is so overrated.

Those players with more 150 are usually spamming. I am pretty sure the reason why people get over 150 at all, its because they keep checking their building unit progress periodically to not miss the macro cue.

There is nothing more to it. If you watch any pro gamer playing Live, and dont pay attention to the bottom window, the main window game play is usually at a humanly possible speed. They are efficient.

Testie and Oldy have like 120 APM.
Nal_rA used to have around that too.
There was a zerg too that used to be good and had around 80 APM... I forgot his name, something to do with water I guess... :p

If you dont spam the move keys or selection hotkeys you can still play perfectly well with very low apm.

Why don't you go inform every progamer with over 150apm that they're needlessly spamming and they can spare from serious wrist fatigue/injury in the future. Think about it, 13 hours of constant spamming every day, sheesh! Thank fuck we have people like you that are so knowledgeable about high level play, now run along and spread your expert insight!
It's better to burn out than to fade away
IdrA
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States11541 Posts
November 14 2008 13:51 GMT
#123
On November 14 2008 15:08 Artosis wrote:
upmagic is 260ish.
in very general terms, really intelligent players will be slower.
the dumb-as-a-brick macro bots will be the ones who are like 400 apm.

actually its just that to be a progamer while being slow you have to be smart.
being smart doesnt entail being slow.
http://www.splitreason.com/product/1152 release the gracken tshirt now available
sowhat91
Profile Joined October 2008
26 Posts
November 14 2008 13:58 GMT
#124
On November 14 2008 22:51 IdrA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 14 2008 15:08 Artosis wrote:
upmagic is 260ish.
in very general terms, really intelligent players will be slower.
the dumb-as-a-brick macro bots will be the ones who are like 400 apm.

actually its just that to be a progamer while being slow you have to be smart.
being smart doesnt entail being slow.

and being fast doesnt entail being smart....
IdrA
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States11541 Posts
November 14 2008 14:00 GMT
#125
please show me where i said it does
http://www.splitreason.com/product/1152 release the gracken tshirt now available
QibingZero
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
2611 Posts
November 14 2008 14:17 GMT
#126
On November 14 2008 22:51 IdrA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 14 2008 15:08 Artosis wrote:
upmagic is 260ish.
in very general terms, really intelligent players will be slower.
the dumb-as-a-brick macro bots will be the ones who are like 400 apm.

actually its just that to be a progamer while being slow you have to be smart.
being smart doesnt entail being slow.


Yes, that makes a lot more sense when you consider players such as Jaedong that play at huge apm numbers and yet are by no means 'dumb-as-a-brick macro bots'.

The statement works when comparing players such as Kang Min to some newer progamers, but certainly not overall.
Oh, my eSports
Leath
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
Canada1724 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-11-14 15:00:28
November 14 2008 14:44 GMT
#127
On November 14 2008 13:04 -_- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 14 2008 09:28 Leath wrote:
On November 13 2008 15:37 ExSoldier wrote:
i dont understand how these progamers with low apm can keep up with progamers with much faster apm especially terran users with low apm going against zergs with high apm. mind any1 explaining ^^.

also does any1 know flash and fantasy's apm? im just curious ^^


APM is so overrated.

Those players with more 150 are usually spamming. I am pretty sure the reason why people get over 150 at all, its because they keep checking their building unit progress periodically to not miss the macro cue.

There is nothing more to it. If you watch any pro gamer playing Live, and dont pay attention to the bottom window, the main window game play is usually at a humanly possible speed. They are efficient.

Testie and Oldy have like 120 APM.
Nal_rA used to have around that too.
There was a zerg too that used to be good and had around 80 APM... I forgot his name, something to do with water I guess... :p

If you dont spam the move keys or selection hotkeys you can still play perfectly well with very low apm.


Tsunami was the Zerg! I Played Zerg because of him!


Yes, Tsunami was his name. Thanks ^_^

On November 14 2008 16:43 KrAzYfoOL wrote:
Why don't you go inform every progamer with over 150apm that they're needlessly spamming and they can spare from serious wrist fatigue/injury in the future. Think about it, 13 hours of constant spamming every day, sheesh! Thank fuck we have people like you that are so knowledgeable about high level play, now run along and spread your expert insight!


Thanks for the flame.
The question was "How can pro gamers with much lower APM keep up with the ones in the high end?". And in all honesty I see nothing wrong with what I answered.
I just wanted to say APM is overrated, and not the answer to all your starcraft problems. I dont need to write a 1500 words argumentative essay to explain why.
Nal_rA, Testie, and many other good players have very low APM and it is probably because they dont keep: Checking unit progress every millisecond, clicking move 10 times per selection, setting rally 3 times, ordering workers to build 10x the same building.
Check FireBatHero playing live, check how many times he performs all those useless actions. Like he build an ebay to get the SCV in position to make the barracks ASAP, then spam like 5x barracks construction.
Check how many times NaDa press 1,2,4,5,4,5,4,5,1,2,4,5 checking if his tank is ready, he even saves the machine shop on hotkey to check the progress and research spider mine/ make a tank or whatever as soon as possible.
Attempt of perfect play? Maybe. But to me that still falls in the category of spam.

Anyway, perhaps you will share your insight next time instead of just mindless flaming.
http://www.kongregate.com/?referrer=Sagess
KrAzYfoOL
Profile Blog Joined September 2005
Australia3037 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-11-15 09:43:11
November 15 2008 09:33 GMT
#128
On November 14 2008 23:44 Leath wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 14 2008 13:04 -_- wrote:
On November 14 2008 09:28 Leath wrote:
On November 13 2008 15:37 ExSoldier wrote:
i dont understand how these progamers with low apm can keep up with progamers with much faster apm especially terran users with low apm going against zergs with high apm. mind any1 explaining ^^.

also does any1 know flash and fantasy's apm? im just curious ^^


APM is so overrated.

Those players with more 150 are usually spamming. I am pretty sure the reason why people get over 150 at all, its because they keep checking their building unit progress periodically to not miss the macro cue.

There is nothing more to it. If you watch any pro gamer playing Live, and dont pay attention to the bottom window, the main window game play is usually at a humanly possible speed. They are efficient.

Testie and Oldy have like 120 APM.
Nal_rA used to have around that too.
There was a zerg too that used to be good and had around 80 APM... I forgot his name, something to do with water I guess... :p

If you dont spam the move keys or selection hotkeys you can still play perfectly well with very low apm.


Tsunami was the Zerg! I Played Zerg because of him!


Yes, Tsunami was his name. Thanks ^_^

Show nested quote +
On November 14 2008 16:43 KrAzYfoOL wrote:
Why don't you go inform every progamer with over 150apm that they're needlessly spamming and they can spare from serious wrist fatigue/injury in the future. Think about it, 13 hours of constant spamming every day, sheesh! Thank fuck we have people like you that are so knowledgeable about high level play, now run along and spread your expert insight!


Thanks for the flame.
The question was "How can pro gamers with much lower APM keep up with the ones in the high end?". And in all honesty I see nothing wrong with what I answered.
I just wanted to say APM is overrated, and not the answer to all your starcraft problems. I dont need to write a 1500 words argumentative essay to explain why.
Nal_rA, Testie, and many other good players have very low APM and it is probably because they dont keep: Checking unit progress every millisecond, clicking move 10 times per selection, setting rally 3 times, ordering workers to build 10x the same building.
Check FireBatHero playing live, check how many times he performs all those useless actions. Like he build an ebay to get the SCV in position to make the barracks ASAP, then spam like 5x barracks construction.
Check how many times NaDa press 1,2,4,5,4,5,4,5,1,2,4,5 checking if his tank is ready, he even saves the machine shop on hotkey to check the progress and research spider mine/ make a tank or whatever as soon as possible.
Attempt of perfect play? Maybe. But to me that still falls in the category of spam.

Anyway, perhaps you will share your insight next time instead of just mindless flaming.

I feel blessed that you responded to my post, it seems you know sooo much more about utilizing actions in starcraft than players of such high skill like Nada of FBH, and here i thought us simple teamliquidians that are miles away from ever being even half as good as the players mentioned should just stay clear away from critiquing how professional gamers manage themselves in game.

But in the back of my mind just knew there was someone, that was heads and shoulders above us all, capable of providing such an expert opinion! Imagine how pro gamers would respond to your claims, imagine jaedong's response when you tell him that he is badly utilizing his actions, sure he's probably the best zerg in the world at the moment, but I'm sure he'd be all ears to maximizing his playability!

Have you got any more useful insight? Maybe i could pass on your word to another RTS, i could tell moon,grubby,tod,sky...you know all the best players, that their 250+ apm is completely useless!
It's better to burn out than to fade away
Leath
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
Canada1724 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-11-16 05:30:26
November 15 2008 20:32 GMT
#129
Wow, dude, and yet again you dont give any feedback, just stupid sarcastic flame. You're even putting stuff in my mouth that I dont know where you brought it up from.

I never said that their spamming was useless or that pro gamers are utilizing bad their actions.
I never said that pro gamers could improve their playability by lowering their APM.
Where did you get the idea that I was giving advice to anyone???
What does my skill level or teamliquid's have to do with anything? Even IF I was giving advice, it would not matter. Soccer coaches dont have to be Maradona or Pele to give advices to players on the field. Thats a silly notion that you cant understand something unless you havent been there.
Finally, I never criticized any pro gamer on their style of game play, I just said high APM is overrated.
http://www.kongregate.com/?referrer=Sagess
Chef
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
10810 Posts
November 15 2008 21:05 GMT
#130
On November 14 2008 22:51 IdrA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 14 2008 15:08 Artosis wrote:
upmagic is 260ish.
in very general terms, really intelligent players will be slower.
the dumb-as-a-brick macro bots will be the ones who are like 400 apm.

actually its just that to be a progamer while being slow you have to be smart.
being smart doesnt entail being slow.

I'm not sure that's entirely true. It could be that the more you spam, the harder it is to think. Thus, people who focus more on mechanics and just getting everything done perfectly, will not have as much focus to spare for strategical genius.

Of course, that's why NaDa is so good. He's able to be fast, and smart.
LEGEND!! LEGEND!!
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
November 15 2008 21:20 GMT
#131
APM doesn't translate necessarily into mechanics.

I have 260-280 APM. I do things very quickly, and my macro is pretty good. My micro is horrible though, I have zero precision.
RIP Aaliyah
Racenilatr
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
United States2756 Posts
November 15 2008 21:42 GMT
#132
I dont believe micro falls under mechanics....
RoieTRS
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States2569 Posts
November 15 2008 22:59 GMT
#133
On November 16 2008 06:42 Racenilatr wrote:
I dont believe micro falls under mechanics....

Some mechanics are optimized/maximized with micro.
konadora, in Racenilatr's blog: "you need to stop thinking about starcraft or anything computer-related for that matter. It's becoming a bad addiction imo"
randomscrub
Profile Joined June 2008
Bulgaria44 Posts
November 15 2008 23:43 GMT
#134
Flash/Jaedong could probably play equally well with about 120-150 apm, if they wasted no clicks whatsoever.

However, theyre humans so thats impossible. AFAIK, the point of spamming useless actions is to make sure you don't miss any actually normal actions.

Spamming 400+ apm also helps you build hand speed for those games where you actually need 200-300 unspammed APM.
Racenilatr
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
United States2756 Posts
November 15 2008 23:45 GMT
#135
On November 16 2008 07:59 RoieTRS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 16 2008 06:42 Racenilatr wrote:
I dont believe micro falls under mechanics....

Some mechanics are optimized/maximized with micro.

such as?
CruiseR
Profile Joined November 2004
Poland4014 Posts
November 16 2008 00:13 GMT
#136
I believe GGPlay and GoRush and TheRock all have very low apm, like 200-250
Try
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States1293 Posts
November 16 2008 00:14 GMT
#137
I have the low apm.
ProoM
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Lithuania1741 Posts
July 24 2009 09:10 GMT
#138
On November 13 2008 17:30 Ilikestarcraft wrote:
Yes you can with zerg
For example on blue storm you can put a lot of hatches around the min only and f2 it and the rest you can use hotkeys.

f2 control+larvae sz 4sz5sz6szs7sz8sz?


why "s" when you already have selected all the larvae? so it's just: f2 control+click h
IMBA - International Mountain Bicycling Association.
besiger
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
Croatia2452 Posts
July 24 2009 09:15 GMT
#139
oh dear...
A weak will coupled with delusions of grandeur
iNcontroL *
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
USA29055 Posts
July 24 2009 09:18 GMT
#140
what is it about new posters that makes them bump really old threads with retarded responses?
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