i know i speak this on TL and there stands many Animosity toward these people but nowadays i watch sc2... everyone seems so bland and cliche. when i watch casters these days they give me the feeling they are automaton. pro personality has diminish i think in part due to certain western culture element, but let us not go there that is separate discussion.
some of you may say "they were bad because they were bad manner" but for most, especially combatex/deezer, this was banter, and pros often reciprocated it:
here we see bm from both huk and idra toward combatex for example. but it was all banter. he even say gg at the very end. also the showmatch between combatex and deezer was terrific. i know this is popular opinion but i do not think there has been thread at least recent that discusses it? what do you guys think? overall i liked all of these people. only ones like avilo were cringe and i didnt like but otherwise i miss them. sorry for bad english. it's late here.
I enjoy the polite and professional StarCraft II community. There’s enough unnecessary drama in other esports. People respecting each other is one of the StarCraft II community’s greatest strengths in my opinion.
On November 10 2021 08:43 Crocolisk Dundee wrote: I enjoy the polite and professional StarCraft II community. There’s enough unnecessary drama in other esports. People respecting each other is one of the StarCraft II community’s greatest strengths in my opinion.
I think this is exactly OPs point though, the fact that you dont like it creates controversy and people talking about the players. If the banter is fake I think it can be kinda corny but when you get players who people "love to hate" like idra, it gets fans more invested in their matches.
Not sure what you mean by "these days", but a lot of the casters have been casting since day 1. And say what you want about guys like Tastosis, but it's hard to say they're not entertaining. As far as the players, I agree there could be more personality-driven content, but if you want that I suggest watching GSL. Their production includes a lot of funny interviews in which players are basically encouraged to make fun of each other, games like subjecting players to a zapping lie detector, etc. The GSL group nominations can similarly be entertaining if you want to see inter-player dynamics (watching Zest and Special negotiate group placements for a night out for dinner recently was funny). The IdrA-style BM I don't find to be entertaining, but I guess if players were to BM in game a bit more that could be fun. You see it in ladder games, but I don't blame players for wanting to take tournament games seriously and focus on their play. Byun and Maru recently played a tourney finals in which they were BM the whole time, at one point Maru paused the game and typed Byun's Twitch link into the chat and told viewers to go subscribe. The Olimoleague 2v2 stuff is also pretty funny and tends to bring out more personality and weird builds. If what you really want is for players to be childish, homophobic, aggressive, toxic, and straight up rude like some were in the past, then I guess I'm glad you're in the minority...but I'm sure you can get your fix on the ladder.
On November 10 2021 08:43 Crocolisk Dundee wrote: I enjoy the polite and professional StarCraft II community. There’s enough unnecessary drama in other esports. People respecting each other is one of the StarCraft II community’s greatest strengths in my opinion.
guess what my friend, people will get bored, drama is a constant. always expect. these people being gone simply makes people channel it into other things
On November 10 2021 09:47 rwala wrote: Not sure what you mean by "these days", but a lot of the casters have been casting since day 1. The IdrA-style BM I don't find to be entertaining, but I guess if players were to BM in game a bit more that could be fun.
it is reason artosis stream is so popular. it is entertaining. also many of these casters are new for sure. tastosis is great. i will not name names of the newer casters as this is not the point but most of them have not been there since end of WoL definitely.
Trance music wouldn’t be better if there were more controversial artists producing music. It’s an extremely successful genre that is built on sharing experiences, finding happiness, and having a good time. That sums up my attitude towards Starcraft too. I much prefer a positive and supportive community to a bitter one like what existed during the SC1 to SC2 transition.
sc2 needs drama like anyother sport or like WWA or MMA or whatever, look at the drama that is built in Formula 1 with netflix Formula 1: Drive to Survive series, those BM players op mention were the reason i usually kept watching Sc2 more than now, because they could make people play better or play worst, there is not reason to ban players just because the are bm from time to time... just look at it as a way to make the Esport bigger... not everybody has to be a cinderella type of personality.
Given how close knit the community is nowadays (partly due to getting smaller as its an older game now), someone who is BM might ostracize themselves in the community, so the risk is now greater
Maybe get a few laughs or attention in the short term, but not sustainable if they don't want to make things awkward with the rest of the community (whether that's other pros, casters, tournament organizers, etc.)
I don't agree, drama is one thing but immature cheaters is very different. As for the Idra/ Artosis stream argument, a lot of the people watching those streams are just there to troll and watch them fail, that can't be healthy for both the streamer or the scene. It does draw more eyes, but that's not the type of attention you'd want if you're intending on having a professional scene like ESL/ASL.
I liked this when I was younger, but I have absolutely no interest anymore. Point is understood, and target audience is probably younger (teens / early 20's).
I think there can be reasonably fine lines between enjoyable pantomime villainy and toxic nonsense.
In general I think a few pantomime villains would be fun, I was always quite partial to Idra but genuinely, especially hearing him come back for the odd chat I don’t think SC competition was good for the guy.
Artosis’ stream behaviour is absolutely hilarious to me, but crucially only with the contrast to how he is the rest of the time, the duality of man. If he was actually like that all the time it would be awful.
Largely I like the wider scene, this site especially because it’s not particularly toxic. If we had a bunch of prominent figures behaving like idiots I think you’d see that emulated more and more down the chain, which would suck, at least for me.
Perhaps old age has got to me but I really don’t have the energy for that these days.
I don't think it was 'funny banter'. A lot of it was very toxic behavior.
Funny banter should be obvious. And I agree: a bit of banter could be fun. Reynor, for example, does, imo, a lot of banter, when he commentates. That's fun.
On November 10 2021 18:25 AdrianHealeyy wrote: Reynor, for example, does, imo, a lot of banter, when he commentates. That's fun.
I also remember Dark teasing Reynor with "Some people you are just not meant to beat". That certainly added to the excitement of their match IEM Katowice 2021 quarterfinals match.
On November 10 2021 12:00 BonitiilloO wrote: sc2 needs drama like anyother sport or like WWA or MMA or whatever, look at the drama that is built in Formula 1 with netflix Formula 1: Drive to Survive series, those BM players op mention were the reason i usually kept watching Sc2 more than now, because they could make people play better or play worst, there is not reason to ban players just because the are bm from time to time... just look at it as a way to make the Esport bigger... not everybody has to be a cinderella type of personality.
The issue with the analogy to WWA or MMA is that in these "sports" the drama is specifically orchestrated by the event producers and agreed to by the players. Often the outcome is pre-determined, and the BM is fake (the entire player personalities are often made up). So essentially it's like the sports equivalent of a soap opera. I get if that's what some people want, but a lot of us are more interested in high quality production and gameplay.
My issue with SC2 has more to do with some fundamentals of the way the game is designed that allow for build-order wins and make comebacks nearly impossible when there's significant early game economic damage on one side. There's a lot of rock-paper-scissors going on to the point where pros themselves are describing some of their match-ups as coin flips. More generally, because the map and unit features haven't evolved much in many years, the universe of strategies and tactics has more or less been mapped out such that you *rarely* see meaningfully novel approaches to the game any more (e.g. Maru going battle mech against Stats in 2019). SC2 is still fun to watch, but the moments in which you see surprising, interesting, or novel gameplay approaches seem to be dwindling. I think for a lot of us turning it into a soap opera with a bunch of BM drama isn't really the answer.
WombaT said it well - there is a difference between toxic nonsense and pantomime villainy.
Let's see this clever banter then shall we -
Gee, how hilarious, someone gunning for the most times to type "raped" in an SCII match. And then some homophobic jokes. Yeah, that's gonna be a hard pass from me.
This might be hilarious to you, but it's insanely hurtful to many people and therefore has been justifiably ostracized from the community.
I would encourage you to cultivate a better sense of humour.
EPT
